From mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us Tue Jul 28 17:18:21 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2567 news.groups:54747 misc.forsale.computers:46905 misc.forsale:67416 ny.forsale:2267 nj.forsale:3701 pa.forsale:1232 ne.forsale:9208
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.forsale.computers,misc.forsale,ny.forsale,nj.forsale,pa.forsale,ne.forsale
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us (Mike Miskulin)
Subject: RFD: misc.forsale.computers reorganization
Message-ID: <1992Jul28.182453.4243@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: news.groups
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Organization: High Energy Concepts
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:24:53 GMT
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Lines: 32
I am formally proposing the split of misc.forsale.computers into a new
hierarchy. At a minimum the succeeding group(s) should be:
misc.forsale.computers.hardware
misc.forsale.computers.software
At a maximum (for purposes of this RFD), a succession to:
misc.forsale.computers.hardware.ibm
misc.forsale.computers.hardware.apple
misc.forsale.computers.hardware.other
misc.forsale.computers.software.ibm
misc.forsale.computers.software.apple
misc.forsale.computers.software.other
The reason for this RFD is that many current readers of misc.forsale.
computers believe the group is too cumbersome to read/follow in its
current format; simply put the volume of this group is too high for
the existing format to continue being an effective means of offering
computer related goods for sale. However, there are a large number
who would like to continue to see the group in its present format.
Following Usenet guidelines, ALL followup discussion on this topic
should occur in news.groups ONLY. Do not cross-post back to other
groups such as misc.forsale.computers. RFDs typically generate
a large amount of traffic and can swamp a newsgroup.
Regards,
--
Mike Miskulin
mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us
From mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us Tue Sep 1 11:37:27 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2675 news.groups:56024 misc.forsale:70268 misc.forsale.computers:50670 ny.forsale:2454 nj.forsale:3960 pa.forsale:1354 dc.forsale:3600 misc.misc:17278
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,ny.forsale,nj.forsale,pa.forsale,dc.forsale,misc.misc
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Mike Miskulin <mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us>
Subject: CFV: misc.forsale.computers reorganization
Message-ID: <Btwntw.60@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Reply-To: mfcvote@qedqcd.rye.ny.us
Organization: High Energy Concepts
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:17:54 GMT
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Lines: 146
************************************************************************
* URGENT *
* *
* tale@uunet.uu.net has brought to my attention that newsgroup *
* creation guidelines now require a SEPERATE VOTE on each group *
* in question. A simple ballot is contained within this CFV. The *
* only change is that you can vote yes/no/abstain on each of the *
* groups in question. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO REVOTE IF YOU HAVE *
* ALREADY VOTED. I personally apologize for this error and hope that *
* it does not have an adverse effect on the outcome of this vote *
* *
* Mike Miskulin *
************************************************************************
This article is the FIRST CALL FOR VOTES on a reorganization
of the misc.forsale.computers newsgroup. This reorganization
will provide for the creation of up to nine new groups to replace
the current misc.forsale.computers group.
PLEASE EXAMINE THE ENTIRE PROPOSAL BEFORE VOTING ON IT.
+----------+
| PROPOSAL |
+----------+
Create:
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone [ibm clone systems]
misc.forsale.computers.mac [mac systems]
misc.forsale.computers.workstation [i.e. sun/next/hp systems]
misc.forsale.computers.comm [modems and the like]
misc.forsale.computers.software [all software, o/s ]
misc.forsale.computers.printers [printers/plotters]
misc.forsale.computers.storage [disk/tape/cdrom]
misc.forsale.computers.other [books,other systems,misc]
misc.forsale.computers.d [flame wars,reviews]
Remove: misc.forsale.computers if misc.forsale.computers.other passes.
+-----------+
| RATIONALE |
+-----------+
Misc.forsale.computers currently suffers from a high volume of
postings covering many diverse subjects. This reorganization
attempts to create a more effective structure to place computer
related merchandise for sale on usenet. Individually:
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
for computer systems based on the IBM pc.
misc.forsale.computers.mac:
for computer systems based on the Apple Macintosh
misc.forsale.computers.workstations:
for any system known as a workstation (ie Sun, HP)
misc.forsale.computers.comm
for all equipment related to communications such as
modems and fax cards
misc.forsale.computers.software
for all software for all hardware platforms, including
operating systems
misc.forsale.computers.printers
for all equipment relating to hard copy output
i.e. printers and plotters
misc.forsale.computers.storage
for all mass storage devices such as floppy drives,
hard disks and cd-roms
misc.forsale.computers.other
for books, other hardware platforms (ie VAX) and other
miscellaneous items.
misc.forsale.computers.d
for discussions of any nature related to the selling
of computer products on usenet and discussion of
postings to any other misc.forsale.computer.* group
If misc.forsale.computers.other and at least one other ad group pass,
then misc.forsale.computers will be removed three months after the
creation of the new groups.
+---------------+
| VOTING METHOD |
+---------------+
One mailbox address has been set up to record votes.
You may vote Yes No or Abstain.
Possible ways to address votes include:
mfcvote@qedqcd.rye.ny.us
mfcvote%qedqcd.rye.ny.us@uunet.uu.net
uunet!qedqcd!mfcvote
+----------+
| BALLOT |
+----------+
Please replace the __ with your vote (Y=YES, N=NO, A=ABSTAIN).
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.mac
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.workstation
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.software
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.comm
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.printers
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.storage
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.d
__ rename of misc.forsale.computers to misc.forsale.computers.other
+----------+
| SCHEDULE |
+----------+
1. Discussion:
The official discussion period began when the first RFD appeared
in news.announce.newgroups, that is, 28 July 1992. It ended on
28 August 1992.
2. Voting:
The vote will run through 28 September 1992.
I will post a second Call For Votes, and possibly a list of
unreachable return addresses, during the voting period. When the
vote is over, I will post the final results.
3. Waiting Period:
I will observe the normal waiting period of five days from the
time that the final results appear in news.announce.newgroups.
During this time, people may report lost votes and/or impugn
the fairness of the vote taker.
4. Consummation:
After the waiting period, the appropriate control messages to
create all new newsgroups and remove the existing group will be
made. About one week later, the control messages will be re-issued.
If the reorganization passes all changes will take effect by the
middle of October 1992.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Miskulin mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us 70053,551@compuserve.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us Thu Sep 17 14:46:14 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2735 news.groups:56676 misc.forsale:71757 misc.forsale.computers:52636 ny.forsale:2554 nj.forsale:4083 pa.forsale:1409 dc.forsale:3737 misc.misc:17377 ba.market.computers:8565
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,ny.forsale,nj.forsale,pa.forsale,dc.forsale,misc.misc,ba.market.computers
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Mike Miskulin <mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us>
Subject: 2nd CFV: misc.forsale.computers reorganization
Message-ID: <BuqJMJ.M1M@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Reply-To: mfcvote@qedqcd.rye.ny.us
Organization: High Energy Concepts
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1992 18:35:04 GMT
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Lines: 134
This article is the *SECOND* CALL FOR VOTES on a reorganization
of the misc.forsale.computers newsgroup. This reorganization
will provide for the creation of up to nine new groups to replace
the current misc.forsale.computers group.
PLEASE EXAMINE THE ENTIRE PROPOSAL BEFORE VOTING ON IT.
PLEASE USE THE BALLOT CONTAINED IN THIS ARTICLE
+----------+
| PROPOSAL |
+----------+
Create:
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone [ibm clone systems]
misc.forsale.computers.mac [mac systems]
misc.forsale.computers.workstation [i.e. sun/next/hp systems]
misc.forsale.computers.comm [modems and the like]
misc.forsale.computers.software [all software, o/s ]
misc.forsale.computers.printers [printers/plotters]
misc.forsale.computers.storage [disk/tape/cdrom]
misc.forsale.computers.other [books,other systems,misc]
misc.forsale.computers.d [flame wars,reviews]
Remove: misc.forsale.computers if misc.forsale.computers.other passes.
+-----------+
| RATIONALE |
+-----------+
Misc.forsale.computers currently suffers from a high volume of
postings covering many diverse subjects. This reorganization
attempts to create a more effective structure to place computer
related merchandise for sale on usenet. Individually:
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
for computer systems based on the IBM pc.
misc.forsale.computers.mac:
for computer systems based on the Apple Macintosh
misc.forsale.computers.workstations:
for any system known as a workstation (ie Sun, HP)
misc.forsale.computers.comm
for all equipment related to communications such as
modems and fax cards
misc.forsale.computers.software
for all software for all hardware platforms, including
operating systems
misc.forsale.computers.printers
for all equipment relating to hard copy output
i.e. printers and plotters
misc.forsale.computers.storage
for all mass storage devices such as floppy drives,
hard disks and cd-roms
misc.forsale.computers.other
for books, other hardware platforms (ie VAX) and other
miscellaneous items.
misc.forsale.computers.d
for discussions of any nature related to the selling
of computer products on usenet and discussion of
postings to any other misc.forsale.computer.* group
If misc.forsale.computers.other and at least one other ad group pass,
then misc.forsale.computers will be removed three months after the
creation of the new groups.
+---------------+
| VOTING METHOD |
+---------------+
One mailbox address has been set up to record votes.
You may vote Yes No or Abstain.
Possible ways to address votes include:
mfcvote@qedqcd.rye.ny.us
mfcvote%qedqcd.rye.ny.us@uunet.uu.net
uunet!qedqcd!mfcvote
+----------+
| BALLOT |
+----------+
Please replace the __ with your vote (Y=YES, N=NO, A=ABSTAIN).
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.mac
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.workstation
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.software
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.comm
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.printers
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.storage
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.d
__ rename of misc.forsale.computers to misc.forsale.computers.other
+----------+
| SCHEDULE |
+----------+
1. Discussion:
The official discussion period began when the first RFD appeared
in news.announce.newgroups, that is, 28 July 1992. It ended on
28 August 1992.
2. Voting:
The vote will run through 28 September 1992.
I will post a second Call For Votes, and possibly a list of
unreachable return addresses, during the voting period. When the
vote is over, I will post the final results.
3. Waiting Period:
I will observe the normal waiting period of five days from the
time that the final results appear in news.announce.newgroups.
During this time, people may report lost votes and/or impugn
the fairness of the vote taker.
4. Consummation:
After the waiting period, the appropriate control messages to
create all new newsgroups and remove the existing group will be
made. About one week later, the control messages will be re-issued.
If the reorganization passes all changes will take effect by the
middle of October 1992.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Miskulin mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us 70053,551@compuserve.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us Mon Sep 28 11:13:17 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2779 news.groups:57055 misc.forsale:72590 misc.forsale.computers:54050 ny.forsale:2613 nj.forsale:4161 pa.forsale:1428 dc.forsale:3830 misc.misc:17432 ba.market.computers:8757
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,ny.forsale,nj.forsale,pa.forsale,dc.forsale,misc.misc,ba.market.computers
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us (Mike Miskulin)
Subject: 3rd CFV and VOTE ACK: misc.forsale.computers
Message-ID: <BvAK11.CC8@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Reply-To: Ballot Box for mfc reorg vote <mfcvote@qedqcd.rye.ny.us>
Organization: High Energy Concepts
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:55:49 GMT
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Lines: 585
This article is the THIRD & FINAL CALL FOR VOTES on a reorganization
of the misc.forsale.computers newsgroup. This reorganization
will provide for the creation of up to nine new groups to replace
the current misc.forsale.computers group.
(vote ack at the end)
PLEASE EXAMINE THE ENTIRE PROPOSAL BEFORE VOTING ON IT.
PLEASE USE THE BALLOT INCLUDED IN THIS ARTICLE TO VOTE.
+----------+
| PROPOSAL |
+----------+
Create:
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone [ibm clone systems]
misc.forsale.computers.mac [mac systems]
misc.forsale.computers.workstation [i.e. sun/next/hp systems]
misc.forsale.computers.comm [modems and the like]
misc.forsale.computers.software [all software, o/s ]
misc.forsale.computers.printers [printers/plotters]
misc.forsale.computers.storage [disk/tape/cdrom]
misc.forsale.computers.other [books,other systems,misc]
misc.forsale.computers.d [flame wars,reviews]
Remove: misc.forsale.computers if misc.forsale.computers.other passes.
+-----------+
| RATIONALE |
+-----------+
Misc.forsale.computers currently suffers from a high volume of
postings covering many diverse subjects. This reorganization
attempts to create a more effective structure to place computer
related merchandise for sale on usenet. Individually:
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
for computer systems based on the IBM pc.
misc.forsale.computers.mac:
for computer systems based on the Apple Macintosh
misc.forsale.computers.workstations:
for any system known as a workstation (ie Sun, HP)
misc.forsale.computers.comm
for all equipment related to communications such as
modems and fax cards
misc.forsale.computers.software
for all software for all hardware platforms, including
operating systems
misc.forsale.computers.printers
for all equipment relating to hard copy output
i.e. printers and plotters
misc.forsale.computers.storage
for all mass storage devices such as floppy drives,
hard disks and cd-roms
misc.forsale.computers.other
for books, other hardware platforms (ie VAX) and other
miscellaneous items.
misc.forsale.computers.d
for discussions of any nature related to the selling
of computer products on usenet and discussion of
postings to any other misc.forsale.computer.* group
If misc.forsale.computers.other and at least one other ad group pass,
then misc.forsale.computers will be removed three months after the
creation of the new groups.
+---------------+
| VOTING METHOD |
+---------------+
One mailbox address has been set up to record votes.
You may vote Yes No or Abstain.
Possible ways to address votes include:
mfcvote@qedqcd.rye.ny.us
mfcvote%qedqcd.rye.ny.us@uunet.uu.net
uunet!qedqcd!mfcvote
+----------+
| BALLOT |
+----------+
Please replace the __ with your vote (Y=YES, N=NO, A=ABSTAIN).
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.mac
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.workstation
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.software
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.comm
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.printers
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.storage
__ creation of misc.forsale.computers.d
__ rename of misc.forsale.computers to misc.forsale.computers.other
+----------+
| SCHEDULE |
+----------+
1. Discussion:
The official discussion period began when the first RFD appeared
in news.announce.newgroups, that is, 28 July 1992. It ended on
28 August 1992.
2. Voting:
The vote will run through 28 September 1992.
I will post a second Call For Votes, and possibly a list of
unreachable return addresses, during the voting period. When the
vote is over, I will post the final results.
3. Waiting Period:
I will observe the normal waiting period of five days from the
time that the final results appear in news.announce.newgroups.
During this time, people may report lost votes and/or impugn
the fairness of the vote taker.
4. Consummation:
After the waiting period, the appropriate control messages to
create all new newsgroups and remove the existing group will be
made. About one week later, the control messages will be re-issued.
If the reorganization passes all changes will take effect by the
middle of October 1992.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Miskulin mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us 70053,551@compuserve.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE FOLLOWING HAVE SENT VALID VOTES AS OF 9/27/92:
Bernhard G. Fleuti @chx400.switch.ch, Network Manager@chx400.switch.ch,
arickard@ncrws1.PeachtreeCityGA.ncr.com (Allan Rickards)
/usr/spool/mail/gopstein <gopstein@helix.bms.com>
88opensi!sartin@uunet.uu.net
Abraham Kabanda <kabanda@tufnell.metaphor.com>
Adam Shostack <adam@das.harvard.edu>
Adlai Waksman <waksman@cfar.umd.edu>
Al Kossow <aek@haxrus.apple.com>
Albert Liu <liu@cerl.uiuc.edu>
Alex Dillard <dillard@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Alex Lecea <zeus@camelot.bradley.edu>
Alexis Rosen <alexis@panix.com>
Alicia Lee Salomon <salomon@seas.gwu.edu>
Allan Rickards <arickard@ncrws1.peachtreecityga.ncr.com>
Andreas Meyer <ahm@wiretap.spies.com>
Andrew Bressen <bressen@shadow.cs.columbia.edu>
Andrew Bros <bros@neptune.convex.com>
Andrew J. Kass <delphi@media-lab.mit.edu>
Andrew J. Petrarca <android@wpi.wpi.edu>
Andrew Ward <award@auspex.com>
Andrew webster <andy-w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>
Android Rubin <arubin@apple.com>
Andy Wright <awbase!andyw@uunet.uu.net>
Apollo Wong <apollo@ee.ualberta.ca>
Arne Henrik Juul <arnej@kari.fm.unit.no>
Arthur T. McClinton <art@cyclone.mitre.org>
Austin Phelps <bilver!vicstoy!aphelps@peora.sdc.ccur.com>
B.J. 02-Sep-1992 1110 <herbison@erlang.enet.dec.com>
Baldwin Ng <bng@tropel.gca.com>
Barbara Bury <barbara@ejv.com>
Barry Margolin <barmar@think.com>
Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>
Beaker <MXD120@psuvm.psu.edu>
Bill Bogstad <bogstad@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Bill Reeves <BREEVES@us.oracle.com>
Bob Kupiec <olwejo!bob@uupsi.UUCP>
Bob Shew <SHEW_ROBERT_W@lilly.com>
Bob Sichler <bobs@ivy.unisys.com>
Bob Vaughan <techie@w6yx.stanford.edu>
Bob Williams <bob@copi.cmhnet.org>
Brad Wallet <bwallet@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil>
Brent Earl <earl@khaki14.rtsg.mot.com>
Brian Catlin <bc338569@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
Brian Court <bac@netcom.com>
Brian Curtiss <curtiss@burn.colorado.edu>
Brian Kenney <kenney@hsi.com>
Brian Michael Patten <patten@lumchan.ifa.hawaii.edu>
Bruce Clement <alfheim.actrix.gen.nz!frey@uupsi.UUCP>
Bruce Mackey <brucem@cinops.xerox.com>
Casey Bahr <casey@asi.com>
Cathi Cook <cook@sungod.crd.ge.com>
Charles Fee <CXF111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Charlie Pilzer <clp@beartrk.beartrack.com>
Chip Rosenthal <chip@chinacat.unicom.com>
Chip Salzenberg <chip@tct.com>
Chris Blackmon <protein@catt.ncsu.edu>
Chris Ellington <chrielli@bsu-cs.bsu.edu>
Chris Wolf <chris@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu>
Christophe M. Kalisiak <kalisiak@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Christopher Jeanrichard <christof@world.std.com>
Christopher Oliver <oliver@angst.cs.wmich.edu>
Christopher Wroten <cfw@unixland.natick.ma.us>
Chuck 'Down But Not Out' McMath <mcmath@csb1.nlm.nih.gov>
Clark Coffman <coffman@plains.nodak.edu>
Cloyce. <cloyce@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Curtis Chen <chen4@cs.wmich.edu>
D. Brian Kimmel <ars2!briank@uupsi.UUCP>
D. W. James <vnend@princeton.edu>
DROBINOW@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil
DTARICO@ccit.arizona.edu
Dale Call <dalec@wv.mentorg.com>
Dana Jacobsen <jacobsd@solar.cor2.epa.gov>
Dane Hendrix <hendrix@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Darius S. Naqvi <darius@edm.isac.ca>
Darren Stalder <dstalder@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>
Daryl Biberdorf <dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu>
Dave Friedman <davidf@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Dave Lampe <dplace!djl@pacbell.com>
Dave Medin <medin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com>
Dave Wiseman <dwiseman@erim.org>
David 574-7299 <degen@nrlvax.nrl.navy.mil>
David A. Berson <berson@cs.pitt.edu>
David Barr <barr@pop.psu.edu>
David Heiney <david.heiney@medinfo.jax.fl.us>
David Kline <David.Kline@p869.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org>
David Lively <dfl@think.com>
David Muir Sharnoff <muir@tfs.com>
David Richardson, UTA, +1 817 856 6637 <B645ZAX@utarlg.uta.edu>
David S. Miller <dsm@ctt.bellcore.com>
David S.A. Stine <dstine@cisco.com>
David Schankin <schankin@engin.umich.edu>
Dean M. Phillips <dmp3592@icdfs.boeing.com>
Denis Concordel <denis@apldbio.com>
Desmond Fuller <desi@curly.red-cross.org>
Dick Sweet <sweet@mv.us.adobe.com>
Don Ried <dried@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com>
Donald H. Locker <dhl@msl.com>
Doug Greenwald <fsgreen@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov>
Doug Peckham <bohica1!doug@cahuilla.ucsd.edu>
Doug Philips <dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us>
Duckie Shiau <shiau@eniac.seas.upenn.edu>
Dwight A. Schwartz <schwartz@feh.scs.uiuc.edu>
Ed Bailey <bailey@hagar.ph.utexas.edu>
Ed Paradis <IO20222@maine.maine.edu>
Edmund Burnette <sasebb@unx.sas.com>
Edward Bertsch <eab@msc.edu>
Edward Feustel <efeustel@ida.org>
Edward Reid <ed@titipu.meta.com>
Elizabeth Schwartz <betsys@ra.cs.umb.edu>
Ellen Yu <eyu@terminus.umd.edu>
Elliott Kleinrock <elliott@oliafd.shel.isc-br.com>
Emru Townsend <emru@cam.org>
Eric Gaumond <gaumond@mitre.org>
Eric J. Bartelsman <fed!m1ejb00@uunet.uu.net>
Eric J. Olson <ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu>
Eric Loyd - Data Center Operations, x7320 <ECLDCO@techno.isc.rit.edu>
Eric Shepherd <uerics@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu>
Erik Seaberg <seaberg@u.washington.edu>
Floyd Davidson <floyd@ims.alaska.edu>
Forrest Howard, Director of Parallel Systems <fhowarda@us.oracle.com>
Foster Schucker <tredysvr!nzkites!foster@gvls1.gvl.unisys.com>
Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
Fred Rump from home <fr@icdi10.compu.com>
>From rare places come rare experiences. 01-Sep-1992 0818 <marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com>
G.B.D.Brown@bnr.co.uk
GEESLIN@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
Gary Goldberg <og@access.digex.com>
Gary Morris <garym@pulsar.telesoft.com>
Geoff Peck <siamese!geoff@sj.ate.slb.com>
Geoffrey Hopcraft <HOPCRAFT@ecs.umass.edu>
George S Kaczowka <gsk@ziggy.idx.com>
Gerry Swetsky <lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us>
Gilles Detillieux <grdetil@larry.scrc.umanitoba.ca>
Glenn Gray <ggray@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu>
Gordon Dohle <DOHLE@vax2.concordia.ca>
Graeme Hart <hart.actrix.gen.nz!graeme@uupsi.UUCP>
Greg Franklin <F67700241@ccit.arizona.edu>
Greg Moore <dp35@mc1adm.uwaterloo.ca>
Gregory G. Woodbury <ggw@wolves.durham.nc.us>
Gregory Gulik <gulik@ebony.rtsg.mot.com>
Gregory M Marr <gregm@wpi.wpi.edu>
Gwochyuan Chen <bn050@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Harry Bloomberg <hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu>
Hiroto Shibuya <shibuya@mailhost.bl.cad.slb.com>
Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani <ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk>
Howard_Ship@vos.stratus.com
Hsin-Yuan Huang <hhuang@sbee.sunysb.edu>
Huma Dragonbane <lucas@scicom.alphacdc.com>
I can't drive 55 <DEMON@desire.wright.edu>
In-Jerng Choe <choe@dirac.phys.washington.edu>
Irving Shang-Yi Hsu <ihsu@eng.umd.edu>
J. Eric Townsend <jet@nas.nasa.gov>
J. Scott Anderson <sanderso@digi.lonestar.org>
J. Scott Farrow <farrow@fido.colorado.edu>
J. Taggart Gorman <jtgorman@cs.arizona.edu>
J.W. <jwbutler@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Jack Decker <Jack@myamiga.mixcom.com>
Jack Previdi <p00020@mail.psi.net>
James H. Cloos Jr. <cloos@tc.cornell.edu>
James Offutt <jeko@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
James Ralston Crawford <qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu>
Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting <jeh@cmkrnl.com>
Jan Timm <timm@mpi-sb.mpg.de>
Jason Galanter <n3hnr@hpb.cis.pitt.edu>
Jay Maynard <jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>
Jean-Jacques P. Drolet <drolet@drolet.cam.org>
Jeff Dairiki <dairiki@u.washington.edu>
Jeff Goldader <goldader@hale.ifa.hawaii.edu>
Jeff Meyer <moriarty@tc.fluke.com>
Jeff Miller <cornhead@netcom.com>
Jeff Szczepanski <szczepan@dtcs141.dtc.kodak.com>
Jeff Wishnie <wishnie@blowfish.taligent.com>
Jeffrey C Jodoin <jcj2879@cs.rit.edu>
Jerry Gally <gally@anubis.network.com>
Jerry Gulla <u6f89@lfkw2.bgm.link.com>
Jerry Leichter <leichter@lrw.com>
Jerry Miller <jjm70@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>
Jim -- DTN 223-5747 -- Moved to MLO5-2/13A <reisert@mast.enet.dec.com>
Jim A Snowden <Jim.Snowden@uk.cray.com>
Jim Apriletti <aprilett@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Jim Ault <aultj@rpi.edu>
Jim Cabral <cabralje@maxwell.ee.washington.edu>
Jim Liston <megatest!bldg2fs1!jliston@sun.eng.sun.com>
Jim Vienneau - Sun Microsystems <Jim.Vienneau@east.sun.com>
Jim Williams <williams@nssdcs.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Joe Kelsey <kelsey@mdd.comm.mot.com>
Joel C. Justen <crpi!joel@uunet.uu.net>
John Bailey <bailey@seas.gwu.edu>
John Burnette <spock!jburne@uupsi.UUCP>
John Conner <conner@empire.empire.com>
John D. Zitterkopf <jdz1@ra.msstate.edu>
John Harkin <jh@nbn.com>
John Lee <plee@panix.com>
John Lynch Davis <jld2@lehigh.edu>
John Mahoney <john.mahoney@channel1.com>
John Townsend <johnt@meaddata.com>
John Will <john.will@satalink.com>
Jonathan B. Horen <horen@rs.com>
Jonathan Kruger <jon@socrates.umd.edu>
Jonathan Thornburg <jonathan@hoffmann.ph.utexas.edu>
Jong Y. Lee <jong@seas.ucla.edu>
Joseph Malloy <jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu>
Joseph O. Hines Jr. <sasjsh@unx.sas.com>
Joshua Kronengold <JOKHC@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
Jueychong Ong <ong@ground.cs.columbia.edu>
KG27515@uafsysb.uark.edu
KJH6@psuvm.psu.edu
KOENIG@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Kamesh Ramakrishna <kamesh_ramakrishna@macmail.ma30.bull.com>
Keith Ward N5OOD <kward@rowdy.lonestar.org>
Keith Woodard <woodard@cs.buffalo.edu>
Kelly Deyoe <deyoe@chmsr.isye.gatech.edu>
Ken Olum <kdo@marie.mit.edu>
Kenneth Fribert <kensaga@diku.dk>
Kent Dalton <kentd@bach.ftcollinsco.ncr.com>
Kevin Nechodom <knechod@stacc.med.utah.edu>
Kevin O'Gorman <kosman!kevin@uunet.uu.net>
Kevin_Story <kevins@hpcvnb.cv.hp.com>
Khushro Shahookar <khushro@niagara.eecs.umich.edu>
Kim DeVaughn <ked01@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>
Kristen McQuillin <kristen@telerama.pgh.pa.us>
L L Campbell <campbell@bach.udel.edu>
Larry Gilmore <gilmore@venice.sedd.trw.com>
Larry Larson <llarson@gateway.mitre.org>
Lee Chen <polarsun!lee@rna.rockefeller.edu>
Lee Havemann <HAVEMANN_L@spcvxa.spc.edu>
Leon Wicki <lwicki@digi.lonestar.org>
Leonid V. Yakovlev <hm.spb.su!hal@uupsi.UUCP>
Levin F Magruder <levin@world.std.com>
Life... <gberigan@cse.unl.edu>
Lisa Bjarke <lisa@wilbur.dfrf.nasa.gov>
Lori Inglett <loriae@teak.cray.com>
MBAYA@antioc.antioch.edu
Marc G. Frank <mgfrank@avernus.com>
Marc Moorcroft <smarry@zooid.guild.org>
MargARET D. Gibbs <gibbsm@ll.mit.edu>
Margaret Keller <keller@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Mario Goertzel <mariogo@microsoft.com>
Mark Adam <adam@paix.sw.stratus.com>
Mark Ng <mng@pca54.mng.com>
Mark Purtill <purtill@ccr-p.ida.org>
Mark Sicignano <mark@hsi.com>
Mark Solsman <solsman@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Mark Vidov <mvidov@athena.mit.edu>
Marshall Abrams <ab2r@midway.uchicago.edu>
Marty Rattner - SMCC Professional Services <Marty.Rattner@corp.sun.com>
Matthew C. Jones <mjones@razi.eecs.umich.edu>
Matthew Coriale (x37975 <nobody@kodak.com>
Matthew E. Merkelson <memco@cns.nyu.edu>
Michael Browner <browner@sun1.interlan.com>
Michael Chang <nulspace@cs.umd.edu>
Michael F Horgan <mfh@world.std.com>
Michael Faurot <phzzzt!mfaurot@uunet.uu.net>
Michael George Buening <mikeb@nowaksg.chem.nd.edu>
Michael L. Hall <mlh@cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov>
Michael P. Deffendall <mpdeffen@crdec6.apgea.army.mil>
Michael P. Deignan <kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>
Michael R Linksvayer <mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Michael Schuh <schuh@mdd.comm.mot.com>
Mike A. Pasek <pasek@ncrons.stpaul.ncr.com>
Mike Campbell <mcampbel@eola.cs.ucf.edu>
Mike Dodd <dodd!dodd@seq.uncwil.edu>
Mike Herman <mike@hernix.org>
Mike Johnston <mjohnsto@shearson.com>
Mike Miskulin <mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us>
Mike Murphy <mrm@optigfx.com>
Mike Shirley <mikey@slic.cts.com>
Munkacsy <m2m@ssd.ray.com>
Murray Nesbitt <pseudo!mjn@uunet.uu.net>
Nathan Lee <lee@nic.gac.edu>
Nick Duffek <ednor!nsd@wizvax.methuen.ma.us>
Noe Garza <ngarza@digi.lonestar.org>
Not A Random Name <kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu>
OBERLAND@vax.sonoma.edu
Oleg Rovner <oleg@crumpet.cts.com>
OmniSoft <omnisoft@netcom.com>
Orion@cup.portal.com
Otto Heuer #3 <ottoh3@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
PK5685@u.washington.edu
Pat Kane <pat@anacapa.ncel.navy.mil>
Patrick Clancey <CLANCEY@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu>
Patrick LEROY (Bull Worldwide Information Systems) <PLEROY@us.oracle.com>
Paul Alexander Gomme <gomme@sfu.ca>
Paul C. Romano <romano@monolith.bellcore.com>
Paul Hutmacher <paul@xcluud.sccsi.com>
Paul Robichaux <robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov>
Paul_J._Graziano.Wbst200ul@xerox.com
Pete Boulay <PJB4288@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>
Peter C. Sun <psun@ecn.purdue.edu>
Peter Clitherow <pc@breeze.bellcore.com>
Peter Vines <psv2b@uva.pcmail.virginia.edu>
Peter Von Ege <ege@plains.nodak.edu>
Peter W. De Bonte <pd2n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Phil Kramer <p00014@psilink.com>
RAVEN Winter <raven@lclark.edu>
RFM.at.PSUVM@psuvm.psu.edu
RUX@wistb.wistar.upenn.edu
Randolph Turner <orb@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu>
Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Ray Lampman <lampman@fullfeed.com>
Rich Brennan <brennan@merk.com>
Richard Gorton <gorton@blorf.ltn.dec.com>
Richard H. Miller <rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Richard Kulawiec <rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu>
Richard P. Muller <rpm@wag.caltech.edu>
Richard Pan <rpan@hstbme.mit.edu>
Richard Reiner <rreiner@nexus.yorku.ca>
Rick O'Shea <ricochet@spatula.rent.com>
Rick Rodman <rickr@virtech.vti.com>
Rob Cartaino <rob@skylinx2.skylinx.sa.com>
Robert J. McNamara <rob@cad4.lbl.gov>
Robert Landry <rlandry@digi.lonestar.org>
Robert Myhre <myhre@plains.nodak.edu>
Robert Rhode <rhode@ee.rochester.edu>
Ron HALL <thorn@java.cc.mcgill.ca>
Ron Vyhmeister (312)-996-5199 <U53805@uicvm.uic.edu>
Russ Jorgensen <rbj@druhi.att.com>
SESTES@ukcc.uky.edu
Sam Hill Cabal, DS <tsdavies@mailbox.syr.edu>
Samuel Roy Helwig <sh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Sandy Bendremer <sandyb@world.std.com>
Sandy Duveneck <duveneck@cs.uwp.edu>
Sascha Wildner <swildner@channelz.gun.de>
Scott Barman <scott@asd.com>
Scott Blachowicz <statsci!scott@uunet.uu.net>
Scott Curry <scurry@srg.af.mil>
Scott D. Curtin <sc4x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Scott I. Logan <logan@torag.guild.org>
Sean Petty <seanp@undr.org>
Soroka Alexander Vasilevich <ukrcom.sebastopol.ua!alex@relay.ussr.eu.net>
Stanley (S.T.H.) Chow <schow@bnr.ca>
Stephan Heilmayr <heilmayr@math.berkeley.edu>
Stephan Muhs <colonius@dino.dinoco.de>
Steve Gibbons <SPG@nereid.sunquest.com>
Steve Pike - Sun Customer Service <Steve.Pike@east.sun.com>
Steve Turner <turner@csrd.uiuc.edu>
Steven White <dipswich@catt.ncsu.edu>
Stu Labovitz <stu@valinor.mythical.com>
Stuart M Lichtenthal <smlg1015@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Stuart Milton <swmilton@u.washington.edu>
Stuart S Goldstone <golds_ss@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
Sunil Gupta <sg@monsoon.com>
System Operator <egf-bbs!mike@plains.nodak.edu>
Ted Koppel <server!tkoppel@carl.org>
Theo Deraadt <deraadt@newt.cuc.ab.ca>
Thomas Aaron Insel <tinsel@uiuc.edu>
Thomas Arneberg <toma@romulus.cray.com>
Tim Ramsey <tar@math.ksu.edu>
Tim Sullivan <sulli_t@cs.unr.edu>
Tim Tyhurst <tim@dogmead.looking.on.ca>
Timothy VanFosson <timv@ccad.uiowa.edu>
Timothy W Tjarks <tjarks@iedit1.att.com>
Todd Cooper <merk!uvmark!todd@uupsi.UUCP>
Todd Heatherton <th@isr.harvard.edu>
Todd Mummert <mummert@auk.warp.cs.cmu.edu>
Tom Atwater <toma@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Tom Fitzgerald <fitz@wang.com>
Tom Haapanen <tomh@wes.on.ca>
Tomislav Lozic <tom@bumrl1.bu.edu>
Tony Matt <tonym@world.std.com>
Toshi Takeuchi <tt@wag.caltech.edu>
Tuomas Siren <siren@cs.hut.fi>
Ulf Bahrenfuss <wanagin@kingkong.bs.open.de>
V Balaji <balaji@nexus.yorku.ca>
Valerie E Polichar <valerie@sdacs.ucsd.edu>
Vern <cwvernon@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
Vijay Tulsiani <vt2c@hagar5.acc.virginia.edu>
Vincent Hurtubise <hurtubis@a.chem.upenn.edu>
Wesner L. Precil <precil@acad.wit.edu>
William R. Quayle <billq@pogo.fnal.gov>
William Y. Lai <lai@seas.gwu.edu>
Yat Lok L. Cheung <ycheung@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu>
Zeke Koch <zeke@reed.edu>
a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com
ahm@hoserve.att.com
ash@sni.ca
bdg@caril.inria.fr
bill d'Amico <damico@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
bimbo!ukelele!cjl@pyrdc.va.pyramid.com.va.pyramid.com
brecher@husc.harvard.edu
cook@cps.msu.edu
dab7w@beech.cs.virginia.edu
dan cornett <cornett@geneva.crd.ge.com>
davison@living.rutgers.edu
deborah samuels <dsamuels@digi.lonestar.org>
devon!paul@hobbes.cert.org
donyee@athena.mit.edu
dougj@sail.labs.tek.com
eh? <joel@jach.hawaii.edu>
eric@tvnews.tv.tek.com
eric@wolf359.ustores.missouri.edu
erico@narrator.pen.tek.com
eriks@gs37.sp.cs.cmu.edu
esther@verdix.com
gordon e. banks <geb@dsl.pitt.edu>
goudswaa@sfu.ca
gregory d moncreaff <moncrg@iear.arts.rpi.edu>
gt4824a@prism.gatech.edu
hinkens@macc.wisc.edu
hwang@wustlb.wustl.edu
ian@sq.com
janowsky@einstein.rutgers.edu
jdurand@mitre.org
jharris@libra.afsoc.af.mil
josh@osf.org
jswitzer@afit.af.mil
kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
larry@theory.phys.virginia.edu
lbabb@ucoc1.is.battelle.org
lhanson <lhanson@moose.uvm.edu>
lizard@cats.ucsc.edu
lmm@mhcnet.att.com
marier@blkcmb.zso.dec.com
mhpower@stan.mit.edu
mmt@redbrick.com
moebius <bbs.moebius@goonsquad.spies.com>
neptons!roger@uupsi.UUCP (Roger Barth)
news_for@ae.ge.com
pasek@ncrons.StPaul.NCR.COM
paula@prc.unisys.com
pauls@css.itd.umich.edu
pks@neptune.att.com
pshuang@athena.mit.edu
reward@eos.ncsu.edu
rfisel@informix.com
rodrigo vanegas <rv@cs.brown.edu>
ruman@maemaster.eng.uci.edu
sapphire@u.washington.edu
schimken@cs.rpi.edu
scott.powell@amail.amdahl.com
sestes@ncc.uky.edu
shawn <shawn@ucrmath.ucr.edu>
simmons@cs.washington.edu
skinner@oyster.smcm.edu
smk@osf.org
smoon@strfleet.gsfc.nasa.gov
the stupid one <warren@wam.umd.edu>
tmc!david@uunet.uu.net
unknown@apple.com
vannuysd@sonoma.edu
vary@sfu.ca
victor porguen <vporguen@unlinfo.unl.edu>
wbe@bbn.com
wbk@nl-wkulecz.jsc.nasa.gov
wilde@cs.colorado.edu
william E Davidsen <davidsen@ariel.crd.ge.com>
From mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us Fri Oct 9 16:10:39 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2816 news.groups:57597 misc.forsale:73452 misc.forsale.computers:55348 ny.forsale:2678 nj.forsale:4254 pa.forsale:1468 dc.forsale:3922 misc.misc:17532 ba.market.computers:8998
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,ny.forsale,nj.forsale,pa.forsale,dc.forsale,misc.misc,ba.market.computers
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us (Mike Miskulin)
Subject: RESULT: misc.forsale.computers reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Organization: High Energy Concepts
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:21:58 GMT
Message-ID: <Bvv6ws.M5o@uunet.uu.net>
Lines: 515
Proposal Yes No Abs Margin % in favor Result
========== ============= ================== ======
comm 307 172 9 135 64.1% FAIL
d 341 133 14 208 71.9% PASS
mac 343 137 8 206 71.5% PASS
other 325 149 14 176 68.6% PASS
pc-clone 344 138 6 206 71.4% PASS
printers 310 168 10 142 64.9% FAIL
software 320 164 4 156 66.1% FAIL
storage 303 173 12 130 63.7% FAIL
workstation 326 148 14 178 68.8% PASS
488 total votes
239(49.0%) all-yes votes
105(21.5%) all-no votes
0(0.0%) all-abstain votes.
Proposals needed 100 more yes votes than no votes and at least twice
as many yes votes as no votes.
Attached is a list of the individual votes which were received and
counted. The listing is given in rudimentary alphabetic order.
Votes are arranged in the same order as the above summary.
NYANANNNN /usr/spool/mail/gopstein <gopstein@helix.bms.com>
YYYYYYYYY Abraham Kabanda <kabanda@tufnell.metaphor.com>
YYYYYYYYY Adam Shostack <adam@das.harvard.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Adlai Waksman <waksman@cfar.umd.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Al Kossow <aek@haxrus.apple.com>
YYYYYNYYN Alan Peterman <al@qiclab.scn.rain.com>
NYNYNNYNN Alex Dillard <dillard@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Alex Lecea <zeus@camelot.bradley.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Alex Matulich <bilver!alex@peora.sdc.ccur.com>
YYYYYYYYY Alexis Rosen <alexis@panix.com>
YYYYYYYYY Alicia Lee Salomon <salomon@seas.gwu.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Allan Rickards <arickard@ncrws1.peachtreecityga.ncr.com>
NNNNNNNNN Andreas Meyer <ahm@wiretap.spies.com>
YYYYYYYYN Andrew Bressen <bressen@shadow.cs.columbia.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Andrew Bros <bros@neptune.convex.com>
NNNNNNNNN "Andrew J. Kass" <delphi@media-lab.mit.edu>
NNNNNNNNN "Andrew J. Petrarca" <android@wpi.wpi.edu>
NYYYYNNNN Andrew Ward <award@auspex.com>
YYYYYYYYY Andrew webster <andy-w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>
NNNNNNNNN Android Rubin <arubin@apple.com>
NNNNNNNNN Andy Wright <awbase!andyw@uunet.uu.net>
NNNNNNNNN Anthony Wei <wei@yin.ucsd.edu>
YYAYYYYYY "Antonio J Salerno, Jr" <ajs@windmill.att.com>
NNNNNNNNN Apollo Wong <apollo@ee.ualberta.ca>
NNNNNNNNN Arne Henrik Juul <arnej@kari.fm.unit.no>
YYYYYYYYY "Arthur T. McClinton" <art@cyclone.mitre.org>
YYYYYYYYY Austin Phelps <bilver!vicstoy!aphelps@peora.sdc.ccur.com>
YYYYYYYYY "B.J. 02-Sep-1992 1110" <herbison@erlang.enet.dec.com>
YAYYYAYAY Baldwin Ng <bng@tropel.gca.com>
YYYYYYYYY Barbara Bury <barbara@ejv.com>
YYYYYNNNY Barry Margolin <barmar@think.com>
NNNNNNNNN Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>
YYYYYYYYY Beaker <MXD120@psuvm.psu.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Bill Bogstad <bogstad@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
NAYYYNNNY Bill Reeves <BREEVES@us.oracle.com>
NNNNNNNNN Bill_von_Hagen@transarc.com
NNNNNNNNN Bob Kupiec <olwejo!bob@uupsi.UUCP>
YAYYYYYYY Bob Shew <SHEW_ROBERT_W@lilly.com>
YYYYYYYYY Bob Sichler <bobs@ivy.unisys.com>
YYYYYYYYY Bob Vaughan <techie@w6yx.stanford.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Bob Williams <bob@copi.cmhnet.org>
NNYNYNYNY Bob Witmer <eyring!rcw@snowbird.central.sun.com>
NYNNNNNNN Brad Wallet <bwallet@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil>
NNNNNNNNN Brent Earl <earl@khaki14.rtsg.mot.com>
YYYYYYYYY Brian Catlin <bc338569@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Brian Court <bac@netcom.com>
YYYYYYNYY Brian Curtiss <curtiss@burn.colorado.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Brian D Pollard <pollard@spock.ecs.umass.edu>
NNYYYNYNY Brian Kenney <kenney@hsi.com>
NYNNNNNNN Brian Michael Patten <patten@lumchan.ifa.hawaii.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Bruce Clement <alfheim.actrix.gen.nz!frey@uupsi.UUCP>
YYYYYYYYY Bruce Mackey <brucem@cinops.xerox.com>
YYYYYYYYY Bruce Oneel <oneel@arupa.gsfc.nasa.gov>
AYYNYYYYY Casey Bahr <casey@asi.com>
YYYYYYYYY Cathi Cook <cook@sungod.crd.ge.com>
YYYYYYYYY Chad Burkins <CTB103@psuvm.psu.edu>
YYYNYYYYY Charles Fee <CXF111@psuvm.psu.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Charlie Pilzer <clp@beartrk.beartrack.com>
YYYYYYYYY Chih-Pong Lin <cpl10@cd.amdahl.com>
NYNNNNNNN Chip Rosenthal <chip@chinacat.unicom.com>
YYYYYYYYY Chip Salzenberg <chip@tct.com>
NNNNNNNNN Chris Blackmon <protein@catt.ncsu.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Chris Ellington <chrielli@bsu-cs.bsu.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Chris Penington <cjp8b@dayhoff.med.virginia.edu>
NYNNNNNNN Chris Wolf <chris@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu>
NNNNNNNNN "Christophe M. Kalisiak" <kalisiak@acsu.buffalo.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Christopher Jeanrichard <christof@world.std.com>
YYYYYYYYY Christopher Oliver <oliver@angst.cs.wmich.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Christopher Wroten <cfw@unixland.natick.ma.us>
NNNNNNNNN Chuck 'Down But Not Out' McMath <mcmath@csb1.nlm.nih.gov>
NNNYNNYNN Chuck Farmer <cfarmer@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Clark Coffman <coffman@plains.nodak.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Cloyce." <cloyce@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
YYYAYYYAA Craig Carpenter Harris Corp/ISD Phone (407)984-6444 Fax (407)984-6327 <ccarpent@dw3f.ess.harris.com>
NNNNNNNNN Craig Presnell <mcp@netcom.com>
NNNNNNNNN Curtis Chen <chen4@cs.wmich.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "D. Brian Kimmel" <ars2!briank@uupsi.UUCP>
YYYYYYYYY "D. W. James" <vnend@princeton.edu>
NNNNNNNNN DROBINOW@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil
NYNNNNNNN DTARICO@ccit.arizona.edu
YYYYYYYYY Dale Call <dalec@wv.mentorg.com>
YYYYYAYYY Dana Jacobsen <jacobsd@solar.cor2.epa.gov>
NAYYYNYAA Dane Hendrix <hendrix@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
YYYYYYYYY "Darius S. Naqvi" <darius@edm.isac.ca>
NYNNNNNNN Dark Elf <9029699@ul.ie>
NYYYYNYNY Darren Stalder <dstalder@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>
NYNNNNNNN Daryl Biberdorf <dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Dave Frederick <sasdrf@unx.sas.com>
YYYYYYYYY Dave Friedman <davidf@ocf.berkeley.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Dave Lampe <dplace!djl@pacbell.com>
NNNNNNNNN Dave Medin <medin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com>
YYYYYYYYY Dave Wiseman <dwiseman@erim.org>
YYYYYYYYY David 574-7299 <degen@nrlvax.nrl.navy.mil>
YYYYYYYYY "David A. Berson" <berson@cs.pitt.edu>
YYYYYYYYY David Barr <barr@pop.psu.edu>
NNNNNNNNN David Heiney <david.heiney@medinfo.jax.fl.us>
YAYYYYYYY David Kline <David.Kline@p869.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org>
YYYYYYYYY David Lively <dfl@think.com>
YYYYYYYYY David Muir Sharnoff <muir@tfs.com>
YYYYYYYYA "David Richardson, UTA, +1 817 856 6637" <B645ZAX@utarlg.uta.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "David S. Miller" <dsm@ctt.bellcore.com>
YYYYYYYYY "David S.A. Stine" <dstine@cisco.com>
YNYYYYYYY David Schankin <schankin@engin.umich.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Dean M. Phillips" <dmp3592@icdfs.boeing.com>
NYYYYYYNY Denis Concordel <denis@apldbio.com>
YYYYYYYYY Desmond Fuller <desi@curly.red-cross.org>
AYYYYYAAA Dick Sweet <sweet@mv.us.adobe.com>
YYYYYYYYY Don Ried <dried@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com>
YYYAYYYYY Don Sawtelle <sawtelle@mariposa.stonecutter.com>
YYYYYYYYY "Donald H. Locker" <dhl@msl.com>
YYYYYYYYY Doug Greenwald <fsgreen@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov>
YYYYYYYYY Doug Peckham <bohica1!doug@cahuilla.ucsd.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Doug Philips <dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us>
NNNNNNNNN Douglas Plant <dfplant@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
NNNNNNNNN Duckie Shiau <shiau@eniac.seas.upenn.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Dwight A. Schwartz" <schwartz@feh.scs.uiuc.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Ed Bailey <bailey@hagar.ph.utexas.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Ed Paradis <IO20222@maine.maine.edu>
YYYYNYYYY Edmund Burnette <sasebb@unx.sas.com>
YYYYYYYYY Edward Bertsch <eab@msc.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Edward Feustel <efeustel@ida.org>
YYYYYYYYY Edward Reid <ed@titipu.meta.com>
NNYNYNNNN Elizabeth Schwartz <betsys@ra.cs.umb.edu>
NYYYYYYNY Ellen Yu <eyu@terminus.umd.edu>
AYAYYYYYY Elliott Kleinrock <elliott@oliafd.shel.isc-br.com>
YYYYYYYYY Emru Townsend <emru@cam.org>
NYYYYNNNY Eric Gaumond <gaumond@mitre.org>
NYYYYNYNY "Eric J. Bartelsman" <fed!m1ejb00@uunet.uu.net>
NNNNNNNNN "Eric J. Olson" <ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Eric Loyd - Data Center Operations, x7320" <ECLDCO@techno.isc.rit.edu>
YYNYNYYYN Eric Shepherd <uerics@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu>
YYYYYYNYY Erik Seaberg <seaberg@u.washington.edu>
YYYYYYYYY F Harvell <fharvell@ocelot.oau.org>
NNNNNNNNN Floyd Davidson <floyd@ims.alaska.edu>
NYYYYNNNY "Forrest Howard, Director of Parallel Systems" <fhowarda@us.oracle.com>
NNNNNNNNN Foster Schucker <tredysvr!nzkites!foster@gvls1.gvl.unisys.com>
NNNNNNNNN Fred Heutte <phred@well.sf.ca.us>
YYYYYYYYY Fred Rump from home <fr@icdi10.compu.com>
YYYYYYYYY marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com
YYYYYYYYY G.B.D.Brown@bnr.co.uk
YYYYYYYYY GEESLIN@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
YYYYYYYYY Gabe Helou <pfbbs!gabe@uunet.uu.net>
YYYYYYYYY Gary Goldberg <og@access.digex.com>
YYYNYYYYY Gary Morris <garym@pulsar.telesoft.com>
YYYYYYYYY Geoff Peck <siamese!geoff@sj.ate.slb.com>
YYNYYYYYY Geoffrey Hopcraft <HOPCRAFT@ecs.umass.edu>
NNNNNNNNN George S Kaczowka <gsk@ziggy.idx.com>
NYYYYNYNY Gerry Swetsky <lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us>
YYYYYYYYY Gilles Detillieux <grdetil@larry.scrc.umanitoba.ca>
YYYYYYYYY Glenn Gray <ggray@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Gordon Dohle <DOHLE@vax2.concordia.ca>
YYYYYYYYY Graeme Hart <hart.actrix.gen.nz!graeme@uupsi.UUCP>
YYYNYYYYY Greg Franklin <F67700241@ccit.arizona.edu>
NYNNNYYYN Greg Moore <dp35@mc1adm.uwaterloo.ca>
YYYYYYYYY "Gregory G. Woodbury" <ggw@wolves.durham.nc.us>
NYNNNNYNN Gregory Gulik <gulik@ebony.rtsg.mot.com>
YYYYYYYYY Gregory M Marr <gregm@wpi.wpi.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Gwochyuan Chen <bn050@cleveland.freenet.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Harry Bloomberg <hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Hiroto Shibuya <shibuya@mailhost.bl.cad.slb.com>
YAYYYYYYY Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani <ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk>
YYYYYYYYY Howard_Ship@vos.stratus.com
YYYYYYYYY Hsin-Yuan Huang <hhuang@sbee.sunysb.edu>
YAYAYNYNA Huma Dragonbane <lucas@scicom.alphacdc.com>
NYYYNYYYY I can't drive 55 <DEMON@desire.wright.edu>
NYNNNNNNN In-Jerng Choe <choe@dirac.phys.washington.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Irving Shang-Yi Hsu <ihsu@eng.umd.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "J. Eric Townsend" <jet@nas.nasa.gov>
NNNNNNNNN "J. Scott Anderson" <sanderso@digi.lonestar.org>
YYYYYYYYY "J. Scott Farrow" <farrow@fido.colorado.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "J. Taggart Gorman" <jtgorman@cs.arizona.edu>
NYYYYNYNY "J.W." <jwbutler@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
YYYYYYYYY JOHN FISKIO-LASSETER <JOHNL@earlham.bitnet>
NNNNNNNNN JOHN HEIM <HEIM@macc.wisc.edu>
YAAYYYNYA Jack Decker <Jack@myamiga.mixcom.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jack McKinney <rlm7638@tamsun.tamu.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Jack Previdi <p00020@mail.psi.net>
YYYYYYYYY "James H. Cloos Jr." <cloos@tc.cornell.edu>
YYYYYYYYY James Offutt <jeko@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
YYYYYYYYY James Ralston Crawford <qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting" <jeh@cmkrnl.com>
NYYYYNYNY Jan Sondergaard <jsonderg@us.oracle.com>
YYYYYYNYY Jan Timm <timm@mpi-sb.mpg.de>
NNNNNNNNN Jason Galanter <n3hnr@hpb.cis.pitt.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Jay Maynard <jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>
NNNNNNNNN "Jean-Jacques P. Drolet" <drolet@drolet.cam.org>
YYYYYYNNY Jeff Dairiki <dairiki@u.washington.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Jeff Goldader <goldader@hale.ifa.hawaii.edu>
YYYYYYNNY Jeff Meyer <moriarty@tc.fluke.com>
NYNNNNNNN Jeff Miller <cornhead@netcom.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jeff Szczepanski <szczepan@dtcs141.dtc.kodak.com>
NYYNYYNYY Jeff Wishnie <wishnie@blowfish.taligent.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jeffrey C Jodoin <jcj2879@cs.rit.edu>
YYYAYYNYY Jeffrey Komori <jeffk@atlas.corp.sgi.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jerry Gally <gally@anubis.network.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jerry Gulla <u6f89@lfkw2.bgm.link.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jerry Leichter <leichter@lrw.com>
NYNNNNNNN Jerry Miller <jjm70@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jim -- DTN 223-5747 -- Moved to MLO5-2/13A <reisert@mast.enet.dec.com>
NNNNNNNNN Jim A Snowden <Jim.Snowden@uk.cray.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jim Apriletti <aprilett@cgl.ucsf.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Jim Ault <aultj@rpi.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Jim Cabral <cabralje@maxwell.ee.washington.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Jim Liston <megatest!bldg2fs1!jliston@sun.eng.sun.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jim Liston <megatest!bldg2fs1!jliston@sun.eng.sun.com>
NNNNNNNNN Jim Vienneau - Sun Microsystems <Jim.Vienneau@east.sun.com>
YYYYYYYYY Jim Williams <williams@nssdcs.gsfc.nasa.gov>
YYYYYYYYY Joe Kelsey <kelsey@mdd.comm.mot.com>
YYYYYYYYY "Joel C. Justen" <crpi!joel@uunet.uu.net>
YYYYYYYYY "Johan A. Grape" <jgrape@coos.dartmouth.edu>
YYYYYYYYY John Bailey <bailey@seas.gwu.edu>
NNNNNNNNN John Burnette <spock!jburne@uupsi.UUCP>
NNNNNNNNN John Conner <conner@empire.empire.com>
NYAYYANNA "John D. Zitterkopf" <jdz1@ra.msstate.edu>
NYNNNNNNN John Harkin <jh@nbn.com>
NNNNNNNNN John Lee <plee@panix.com>
YYYYYYYYY John Lynch Davis <jld2@lehigh.edu>
NYNNNYYNN John Mahoney <john.mahoney@channel1.com>
NYYYYNNNY John Townsend <johnt@meaddata.com>
YYYYYYYYY "John W. Schwegler" <john@sg25.aud.temple.edu>
NNNNNNNNN John Will <john.will@satalink.com>
NNNNNNNNN "Jonathan B. Horen" <horen@rs.com>
YYNNNYYYN Jonathan Kruger <jon@socrates.umd.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Jonathan Thornburg <jonathan@hoffmann.ph.utexas.edu>
YYYYYNYYN "Jong Y. Lee" <jong@seas.ucla.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Joseph Malloy <jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Joseph O. Hines Jr." <sasjsh@unx.sas.com>
YYYYYYNYY Joshua Kronengold <JOKHC@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
YYYYYYNYY Jueychong Ong <ong@ground.cs.columbia.edu>
YYYYYYYYY KG27515@uafsysb.uark.edu
NYNNNNNNN KJH6@psuvm.psu.edu
YYYYYAAYY KOENIG@vms.cis.pitt.edu
AYYYAYYYY Kamesh Ramakrishna <kamesh_ramakrishna@macmail.ma30.bull.com>
YYYYYYYYY "Karl A. Nyberg" <karl@grebyn.com>
YYAAAAYYA Keith Ward N5OOD <kward@rowdy.lonestar.org>
YYYYYYYYY Keith Woodard <woodard@cs.buffalo.edu>
YYYYYNYYN Kelly Deyoe <deyoe@chmsr.isye.gatech.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Ken Olum <kdo@marie.mit.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Kenneth Fribert <kensaga@diku.dk>
YYYYYNNYY Kent Dalton <kentd@bach.ftcollinsco.ncr.com>
YYYYYYYYY Kevin Nechodom <knechod@stacc.med.utah.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Kevin O'Gorman <kosman!kevin@uunet.uu.net>
YYYYYYYYY Kevin_Story <kevins@hpcvnb.cv.hp.com>
NNNNNNNNN Khushro Shahookar <khushro@niagara.eecs.umich.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Kim DeVaughn <ked01@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>
YYYYYYYYY Kristen McQuillin <kristen@telerama.pgh.pa.us>
YYYYYYYYY L L Campbell <campbell@bach.udel.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Larry Gilmore <gilmore@venice.sedd.trw.com>
YYYYYYYYY Larry Larson <llarson@gateway.mitre.org>
YNNYYYYYY Lee Chen <polarsun!lee@rna.rockefeller.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Lee Havemann <HAVEMANN_L@spcvxa.spc.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Leon Wicki <lwicki@digi.lonestar.org>
YYYYYYYYY "Leonid V. Yakovlev" <hm.spb.su!hal@uupsi.UUCP>
YYYYYYYYY Levin F Magruder <levin@world.std.com>
YYYAYYYYY "Life..." <gberigan@cse.unl.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Lisa Bjarke <lisa@wilbur.dfrf.nasa.gov>
YYYYYYYYY Lisa Parry <parry@susan.cs.andrews.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Lori Inglett <loriae@teak.cray.com>
YAYYYYYYA MBAYA@antioc.antioch.edu
YYYYYYYYY "Marc G. Frank" <mgfrank@avernus.com>
NNNNNNANN Marc Moorcroft <smarry@zooid.guild.org>
NNNNNNNNN "MargARET D. Gibbs" <gibbsm@ll.mit.edu>
AAYAYAYAA Margaret Keller <keller@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
YYYYYYYYY Mario Goertzel <mariogo@microsoft.com>
NYYYYNYNN Mark Adam <adam@paix.sw.stratus.com>
NNYNNNNNN Mark Ng <mng@pca54.mng.com>
YYYYYYYYY Mark Purtill <purtill@ccr-p.ida.org>
NNYYYNYNY Mark Sicignano <mark@hsi.com>
NNNNNNNNN Mark Solsman <solsman@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
NNNNNNNNN Mark Vidov <mvidov@athena.mit.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Marshall Abrams <ab2r@midway.uchicago.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Marty Rattner - SMCC Professional Services <Marty.Rattner@corp.sun.com>
YYYYYYYYY Matthew Blum <mblum@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Matthew C. Jones" <mjones@razi.eecs.umich.edu>
YYYYYYNYY "Matthew Coriale (x37975" <nobody@kodak.com>
YYYYYYYYY "Matthew E. Merkelson" <memco@cns.nyu.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Michael Browner <browner@sun1.interlan.com>
NNNNNNYNN Michael Chang <nulspace@cs.umd.edu>
YYYYYYNYY Michael F Horgan <mfh@world.std.com>
YYYYYYYYY Michael Faurot <phzzzt!mfaurot@uunet.uu.net>
YYYYYYYAY "Michael G. Reed" <reed@snake.tc.cornell.edu>
NAYYYNYNY Michael George Buening <mikeb@nowaksg.chem.nd.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Michael L. Hall" <mlh@cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov>
YYYYYYYYY "Michael P. Deffendall" <mpdeffen@crdec6.apgea.army.mil>
YYYYYYYYY Michael R Linksvayer <mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Michael Schuh <schuh@mdd.comm.mot.com>
YYYYYYYYY "Mike A. Pasek" <pasek@ncrons.stpaul.ncr.com>
YYYYYYYYY Mike Campbell <mcampbel@eola.cs.ucf.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Mike Dodd <dodd!dodd@seq.uncwil.edu>
NNYYYYYNN Mike Herman <mike@hernix.org>
YYYYYYYYY Mike Johnston <mjohnsto@shearson.com>
YYYYYYYYY Mike Miskulin <mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us>
NNNNNNNNN Mike Murphy <mrm@optigfx.com>
YYYYYYYYY Mike Shirley <mikey@slic.cts.com>
YYYYYYYYY Munkacsy <m2m@ssd.ray.com>
YYYYYYYYY Murray Nesbitt <pseudo!mjn@uunet.uu.net>
YYYYYYYYY Nathan Lee <lee@nic.gac.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Nick Duffek <ednor!nsd@wizvax.methuen.ma.us>
NNNNNNNNN Noe Garza <ngarza@digi.lonestar.org>
NNYNYNYYN Not A Random Name <kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu>
NNYNYNYNN OBERLAND@vax.sonoma.edu
NNNNNNNNN Oleg Rovner <oleg@crumpet.cts.com>
YNYYYYNYY OmniSoft <omnisoft@netcom.com>
NNNNNNNNN Orion@cup.portal.com
YYYYYYYYY Otto Heuer #3 <ottoh3@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
NNNNNNNNN PK5685@u.washington.edu
NNNNNNYNN Pat Kane <pat@anacapa.ncel.navy.mil>
YYYYYYYYY Patrick Clancey <CLANCEY@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Patrick LEROY (Bull Worldwide Information Systems)" <PLEROY@us.oracle.com>
NNNNNNNNN Patrick Wei <wei@seas.ucla.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Paul Alexander Gomme <gomme@sfu.ca>
NNNNNNNNN "Paul C. Romano" <romano@monolith.bellcore.com>
NNNNNNNNN Paul Hutmacher <paul@xcluud.sccsi.com>
YYYYYYNYY Paul Robichaux <robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov>
YYYYYYYYY Paul Vargo <paul@ais.org>
NNNNNNNNN Paul Wei <pwei@sdcc3.ucsd.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Paul_J._Graziano.Wbst200ul@xerox.com
YYYNNYNNY Pete Boulay <PJB4288@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Peter C. Sun" <psun@ecn.purdue.edu>
YAYAAAYYY Peter Clitherow <pc@breeze.bellcore.com>
AYYYYYYNA Peter Vines <psv2b@uva.pcmail.virginia.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Peter Von Ege <ege@plains.nodak.edu>
NNYNYNNNN Phil Kramer <p00014@psilink.com>
AYYYYAYAY RAVEN Winter <raven@lclark.edu>
YYYYYYYYY RFM.at.PSUVM@psuvm.psu.edu
YYYYYYYYY RUX@wistb.wistar.upenn.edu
YYYYYYYYY Randolph Turner <orb@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
YYYNYYYYY Ray Lampman <lampman@fullfeed.com>
YYYYYYYYY Rich Brennan <brennan@merk.com>
YYYYYYYYY Richard Gorton <gorton@blorf.ltn.dec.com>
NNYNYNNNN "Richard H. Miller" <rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
YYYAYYNYY Richard Kulawiec <rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "Richard P. Muller" <rpm@wag.caltech.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Richard Pan <rpan@hstbme.mit.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Richard Reiner <rreiner@nexus.yorku.ca>
NYNNNNNNN Rick DeMattia <rad@railnet.nshore.org>
NNNNNNNNN Rick O'Shea <ricochet@spatula.rent.com>
NNNNNNNNN Rick Rodman <rickr@virtech.vti.com>
NNNNNNNNN Rob Cartaino <rob@skylinx2.skylinx.sa.com>
NNYYYNYNY "Robert J. McNamara" <rob@cad4.lbl.gov>
NNNNNNNNN Robert Landry <rlandry@digi.lonestar.org>
YYYYYYYYY Robert Myhre <myhre@plains.nodak.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Robert Rhode <rhode@ee.rochester.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Rodrick Su <rod@cats.ucsc.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Ron HALL <thorn@java.cc.mcgill.ca>
YYYYYYYYY "Ron Vyhmeister (312)-996-5199" <U53805@uicvm.uic.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Russ Jorgensen <rbj@druhi.att.com>
YYYNYYYYY Ryan Waldron <ryan@aladdin.b11.ingr.com>
NNNNNNNNN SESTES@ukcc.uky.edu
YYYAYYYYY "Sam Hill Cabal, DS" <tsdavies@mailbox.syr.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Samuel Roy Helwig <sh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Sandy Bendremer <sandyb@world.std.com>
YYYYYYYYY Sandy Duveneck <duveneck@cs.uwp.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Sascha Wildner <swildner@channelz.gun.de>
NNNNNNNNN Scott Barman <scott@asd.com>
YYYYYYYYY Scott Blachowicz <statsci!scott@uunet.uu.net>
YYYYYYYYY Scott Curry <scurry@srg.af.mil>
YYYYYYYYY "Scott I. Logan" <logan@torag.guild.org>
YYYYYYYYY Sean Petty <seanp@undr.org>
YYAYYYYAY Soroka Alexander Vasilevich <ukrcom.sebastopol.ua!alex@relay.ussr.eu.net>
YYYYYYYYY "Stanley (S.T.H.) Chow" <schow@bnr.ca>
YYYYYYYYY Stephan Heilmayr <heilmayr@math.berkeley.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Stephan Muhs <colonius@dino.dinoco.de>
NYYYYYYYY "Stephen P. Potter" <spp@surf.cis.ufl.edu>
YYYYYYYAY Steve Gibbons <SPG@nereid.sunquest.com>
NNNNNNNNN Steve Pike - Sun Customer Service <Steve.Pike@east.sun.com>
YYYYYYYYY Steve Turner <turner@csrd.uiuc.edu>
NYYYYNNYY Steven White <dipswich@catt.ncsu.edu>
NYYYYNYNY Stu Labovitz <stu@valinor.mythical.com>
NNNNNNNNN Stuart M Lichtenthal <smlg1015@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Stuart Milton <swmilton@u.washington.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Stuart S Goldstone <golds_ss@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
YYYAYYYYY Sunil Gupta <sg@monsoon.com>
YYYNYYNYY System Operator <egf-bbs!mike@plains.nodak.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Ted Koppel <server!tkoppel@carl.org>
NNNNNNNNN Theo Deraadt <deraadt@newt.cuc.ab.ca>
NNNNNNNNN Thomas Aaron Insel <tinsel@uiuc.edu>
YNYYYYNYY Thomas Arneberg <toma@romulus.cray.com>
NYNNNNNNN "Thomas C. Burns" <gcburns@sdrc.com>
YYYYYYYYY Tim Ramsey <tar@math.ksu.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Tim Sullivan <sulli_t@cs.unr.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Tim Tyhurst <tim@dogmead.looking.on.ca>
YNYYYAYAY Timothy VanFosson <timv@ccad.uiowa.edu>
YNYYYYAYY Timothy W Tjarks <tjarks@iedit1.att.com>
YYYYYYYYY Todd Cooper <merk!uvmark!todd@uupsi.UUCP>
YYYYYYYYY Todd Heatherton <th@isr.harvard.edu>
NNNNNNNNN Todd Mummert <mummert@auk.warp.cs.cmu.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Tom Atwater <toma@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov>
NNNNNNNNN Tom Fitzgerald <fitz@wang.com>
YAYYYYYYY Tom Haapanen <tomh@wes.on.ca>
NYNNNNNNN "Tom. Adams 529-7860" <sbctri!tadams@uupsi.UUCP>
YYYYYYYYY Tomislav Lozic <tom@bumrl1.bu.edu>
YYAYYYNYY Tony Matt <tonym@world.std.com>
YYYYAYNAA Toshi Takeuchi <tt@wag.caltech.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Tuomas Siren <siren@cs.hut.fi>
NYYYYNYNY Ulf Bahrenfuss <wanagin@kingkong.bs.open.de>
NNNNNNNNN V Balaji <balaji@nexus.yorku.ca>
YNYYYYYYY Valerie E Polichar <valerie@sdacs.ucsd.edu>
NYYYYNNNY Vern <cwvernon@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
NNNNNNNNN Vijay Tulsiani <vt2c@hagar5.acc.virginia.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Vincent Hurtubise <hurtubis@a.chem.upenn.edu>
ANYAAYYYY "Wesner L. Precil" <precil@acad.wit.edu>
YYYYYYYYY Will Fitzgerald <will@ils.nwu.edu>
YYYYYYYYY "William R. Quayle" <billq@pogo.fnal.gov>
YYYYYYYYY "William Y. Lai" <lai@seas.gwu.edu>
NNNNNNNNN "Yat Lok L. Cheung" <ycheung@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu>
YYYYYYNYY Zeke Koch <zeke@reed.edu>
YYNNNYYNN a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com
NNNNNNNNN "andrew m. boardman" <amb@cs.columbia.edu>
YYYYYYYYY ash@sni.ca
AYYYYAYAY bdg@caril.inria.fr
YYYYYYYYY bill d'Amico <damico@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
NNNNNNNNN brecher@husc.harvard.edu
YYYYYYYYY Bernhard G. Fleuti <b.fleuti@decus.ch>
YYYYYYYYY bimbo!ukelele!cjl@pyrdc.va.pyramid.com.va.pyramid.com
YYYYYYYYY cook@cps.msu.edu
YYYYYYYYY dab7w@beech.cs.virginia.edu
YYYYYYYYY dan cornett <cornett@geneva.crd.ge.com>
YYYYYYYYY tmc!david@uunet.uu.net
YYYYYYNNY davison@living.rutgers.edu
NNNNNNNNN deborah samuels <dsamuels@digi.lonestar.org>
YYYYYYYYY donyee@athena.mit.edu
YYYYYYYYY dougj@sail.labs.tek.com
YYYYYYYYY eh? <joel@jach.hawaii.edu>
YYYYYYYYY eric@tvnews.tv.tek.com
NNNNNNNNN eric@wolf359.ustores.missouri.edu
NNNNNNNNN erico@narrator.pen.tek.com
YYYYYYYYY eriks@gs37.sp.cs.cmu.edu
YYYYYYYYY esther@verdix.com
YNYYYYYYY "gordon e. banks" <geb@dsl.pitt.edu>
YNYYYYYYY goudswaa@sfu.ca
YYYYYYYYY gregh@alw.nih.gov
YYYYYYYYY gregory d moncreaff <moncrg@iear.arts.rpi.edu>
YYYYYYYYY gt4824a@prism.gatech.edu
YYYYYYYYY hinkens@macc.wisc.edu
NYNANNNNA hwang@wustlb.wustl.edu
NNNNNNNNN ian@sq.com
YYYYYYYYY james keen U <jkeen3@mach1.wlu.ca>
NNNNNNNNN janowsky@einstein.rutgers.edu
NNYYYNYNY jdurand@mitre.org
YYYYYYYYY jharris@libra.afsoc.af.mil
NYNNNNNNN josh@osf.org
YYYYYYYYY jswitzer@afit.af.mil
NNNNNNNNN kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net
YYYYYYYYY kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
YYYYYYYYY larry@theory.phys.virginia.edu
YYYYYYYYY lbabb@ucoc1.is.battelle.org
NAYNYNNNA lhanson <lhanson@moose.uvm.edu>
YYYYYYYYY lizard@cats.ucsc.edu
YYYYYYYYY lmm@mhcnet.att.com
NYYNYNNNY marier@blkcmb.zso.dec.com
NNNNNNNNN mhpower@stan.mit.edu
YYYYYYYYY mmt@redbrick.com
NNNNNNNNN moebius <bbs.moebius@goonsquad.spies.com>
YYYYYYYYY neptons!roger@uupsi.UUCP (Roger Barth)
YYYYYYYYY news_for@ae.ge.com
YYYAYYYYY devon!paul@hobbes.cert.org
YYYYYYYYY paula@prc.unisys.com
YNYYYYYYY pauls@css.itd.umich.edu
YYYYYYYYY pks@neptune.att.com
YYYYYYYYY pshuang@athena.mit.edu
NNNNNNNNN pwork@afit.af.mil
YYYYYYYYY reward@eos.ncsu.edu
YYNYYYNNY rfisel@informix.com
YYYYYYYYY rodrigo vanegas <rv@cs.brown.edu>
YYYYYYYYY ruman@maemaster.eng.uci.edu
YYYYYYYYY sandy47@cats.ucsc.edu
YYYYYYYYY sapphire@u.washington.edu
NNNNNNNNN 88opensi!sartin@uunet.uu.net
YYYYYYYYY schimken@cs.rpi.edu
YYYYYYYYY scott.powell@amail.amdahl.com
NNNNNNNNN sestes@ncc.uky.edu
YYYYYYYYY shawn <shawn@ucrmath.ucr.edu>
NYYYYNNNY simmons@cs.washington.edu
YYYYYYYYY skinner@oyster.smcm.edu
YYYYYYYYY smk@osf.org
NYNNNNNNN smoon@strfleet.gsfc.nasa.gov
NNNNNNNNN tdwebste@sun13.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca
YYYYYYYYY the stupid one <warren@wam.umd.edu>
YYYYYYYYY unknown@apple.com
YYYYYYYYY vannuysd@sonoma.edu
YYYYYYYYY vary@sfu.ca
NNYYYNYNN victor porguen <vporguen@unlinfo.unl.edu>
NYYYYYYYY wbe@bbn.com
NNNNNNNNN wbk@nl-wkulecz.jsc.nasa.gov
NNNNNNNNN wilde@cs.colorado.edu
NNNNNNNNN william E Davidsen <davidsen@ariel.crd.ge.com>
From tomh@metrics.com Wed Jun 29 13:30:19 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone,misc.forsale.computers.other,misc.forsale.computers.workstation,misc.forsale.computers.mac,misc.forsale.computers.d
Subject: RFD: misc.forsale.computers.* new groups
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 29 Jun 1994 10:51:03 -0400
Organization: Software Metrics Inc.
Lines: 100
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <2us1on$2sc@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5295 news.groups:107438 misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone:60924 misc.forsale.computers.other:28619 misc.forsale.computers.workstation:10689 misc.forsale.computers.mac:31556 misc.forsale.computers.d:5738
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
on creating
misc.forsale.computers.storage
misc.forsale.computers.communications
misc.forsale.computers.monitors
misc.forsale.computers.printers
RATIONALE
The misc.forsale.computers is one of the busiest hierarchies on Usenet.
Its usefulness is further limited by excessive crossposting and the
difficulty of determining the correct groups for many items.
The last misc.forsale.computers reorganization created a number of
subgroups for the sale of computer hardware and software:
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
misc.forsale.computers.other
misc.forsale.computers.workstation
comp.sys.macintosh.wanted (*separate hierarchy*)
While this division makes it clear where to sell or to look for a
Sun workstation, or a 386-based PC, or a Macintosh, it does not
take into account the increasingly large amount of hardware that
is standardized across platforms. SCSI disks, tape drives, modems,
laser, inkjet and dot matrix printers and multiscan monitors are
usable on a wide variety of equipment.
Where does one advertise a multiscan monitor today? In .pc-clone?
But it's not a clone in itself, so maybe it should go into .other?
But if it's a 17" monitor, maybe the folks in .workstation would
be more interested... They might also appear as the right target
market for a 1 GB SCSI drive -- but maybe it should be cropssposted
to *all* the groups since everyone can use SCSI drives.
Clearly there is no well-defined place for selling standardized
cross-platform peripherals. Providing a place for this hardware
will not only make it easier to buy and sell such equipment, it will
also reduce the amount of cross-posting into groups such as
.workstation.
CURRENT READERSHIP DATA
+-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.
| +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population
| | +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all
| | | +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)
| | | | +-- Recent traffic (megabytes per month)
| | | | | +-- Share: % of newsrders
| | | | | | who read this group.
V V V V V V
109 150000 1243 72% 5486 4.9 2.5% misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
172 130000 1041 70% 2935 2.6 2.1% misc.forsale.computers.mac
194 120000 989 72% 2233 1.6 2.0% misc.forsale.computers.other
331 99000 819 69% 967 0.7 1.6% misc.forsale.computers.workstation
445 86000 717 69% 361 0.4 1.4% misc.forsale.computers.d
PROPOSED CHARTERS
misc.forsale.computers.storage (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.storage is primarily for articles to sell
or buy hardware-independent storage devices. Typically this is
SCSI equipment (of various flavours): hard disks, tape drives, DAT
drives, CD-ROMs, optical disks, removable hard disks and others.
Hardware-dependent equipment (such as IDE hard disks or QIC
tape drives) would also be acceptable.
misc.forsale.computers.communications (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.communications is for articles to sell or
buy hardware-independent communications equipment. This is most
commonly asynchronous modems (v.32, v.32bis, v.34 and others), but
also synchronous modems, terminal servers and network hubs and
cabling systems.
misc.forsale.computers.monitors (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.monitors is for articles to sell or buy
computer monitors. Most commonly this would be hardware-inde-
pendent multiscan monitors, but possibly also LCD or eleectro-
luminescent ddisplay panels, projection displays or fixed-
frequency monitors.
misc.forsale.computers.printers (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.printers is for articles to buy and sell
hardcopy output devices of all types, including laser printers,
LED printers, inkjet printers, dot matrix printers, thermal
printers, line printers and pen plotters.
DISCUSSION AND VOTING
The discussion period lasts for 21 days from the date in the header
of this article. All discussion should take place in news.groups.
The groups in this proposal are subject to change, and if necessary,
a second, revised RFD will be posted prior to the end of the
discussion period.
A CFV (Call for Votes) will be posted after the end of the discussion
period. The vote will be run by a neutral third party.
This RFD attempts to fully comply with Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines set in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup". Please
refer to this document if you have questions about the process.
--
[ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[ "the edsel is here to stay" -- henry ford, 1957 ]
From tomh@metrics.com Thu Jul 28 17:24:42 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone,misc.forsale.computers.other,misc.forsale.computers.workstation,misc.forsale.computers.mac,misc.forsale.computers.d
Subject: 2nd RFD: misc.forsale.computers.* new groups
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 28 Jul 1994 16:26:15 -0400
Organization: Software Metrics Inc.
Lines: 151
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <319497$1jf@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5401 news.groups:110020 misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone:66875 misc.forsale.computers.other:30921 misc.forsale.computers.workstation:11576 misc.forsale.computers.mac:34316 misc.forsale.computers.d:6153
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
on creating
misc.forsale.computers.communications
misc.forsale.computers.memory
misc.forsale.computers.monitors
misc.forsale.computers.printers
misc.forsale.computers.storage
and renaming
misc.forsale to misc.forsale.non-computer
misc.forsale.computers.mac to misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone to misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific
misc.forsale.computers.d to misc.forsale.computers.discussion
RATIONALE
The misc.forsale.computers is one of the busiest hierarchies on Usenet.
Its usefulness is further limited by excessive crossposting and the
difficulty of determining the correct groups for many items.
The last misc.forsale.computers reorganization created a number of
subgroups for the sale of computer hardware and software:
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
misc.forsale.computers.other
misc.forsale.computers.workstation
comp.sys.macintosh.wanted (*separate hierarchy*)
While this division makes it clear where to sell or to look for a
Sun workstation, or a 386-based PC, or a Macintosh, it does not
take into account the increasingly large amount of hardware that
is standardized across platforms. SCSI disks, tape drives, modems,
laser, inkjet and dot matrix printers and multiscan monitors are
usable on a wide variety of equipment.
Where does one advertise a multiscan monitor today? In .pc-clone?
But it's not a clone in itself, so maybe it should go into .other?
But if it's a 17" monitor, maybe the folks in .workstation would
be more interested... They might also appear as the right target
market for a 1 GB SCSI drive -- but maybe it should be crossposted
to *all* the groups since everyone can use SCSI drives.
Clearly there is no well-defined place for selling standardized
cross-platform peripherals. Providing a place for this hardware
will not only make it easier to buy and sell such equipment, it will
also reduce the amount of cross-posting into groups such as
.workstation.
Also, it is proposed that the .pc-clone and .mac groups be renamed to
.pc-specific and .mac-specific to make it clear that these groups are
intended for PC- and Macintosh-specific hardware only, and not for
items such as printers, monitors and hard disks. It is proposed that
the .workstation group not be renamed to .unix-only, since workstations
may or may not run Unix, and both PCs and Macintoshes are also capable
of running Unix.
Finally, it is proposed that the group misc.forsale be renamed to
misc.forsale.non-computer, as it is currently inundated with a variety
of assorted and various postings about computer equipment. A clear
name will hopefully assist in retaining this group for things other
than computers. Similarly, the .discussion group name will be far more
obvious to new users of Usenet than the traditional .d currently used.
CURRENT READERSHIP DATA
+-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.
| +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population
| | +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all
| | | +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)
| | | | +-- Recent traffic (megabytes per month)
| | | | | +-- Share: % of newsrders
| | | | | | who read this group.
V V V V V V
109 150000 1243 72% 5486 4.9 2.5% misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
172 130000 1041 70% 2935 2.6 2.1% misc.forsale.computers.mac
194 120000 989 72% 2233 1.6 2.0% misc.forsale.computers.other
331 99000 819 69% 967 0.7 1.6% misc.forsale.computers.workstation
445 86000 717 69% 361 0.4 1.4% misc.forsale.computers.d
PROPOSED CHARTERS
misc.forsale.computers.storage (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.storage is primarily for articles to sell
or buy hardware-independent storage devices. Typically this is
SCSI equipment (of various flavours): hard disks, tape drives, DAT
drives, CD-ROMs, optical disks, removable hard disks and others.
Less hardware-independent equipment (such as IDE hard disks or QIC
tape drives) would also be acceptable.
misc.forsale.computers.memory (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.communications is for articles to sell or
buy memory (RAM, ROM and flash memory) in all the myriad forms:
SIMMs, SIPPs, DIPs, 8-bit and 9-bit, and anything anyone might have
or need.
misc.forsale.computers.communications (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.communications is for articles to sell or
buy hardware-independent communications equipment. This is most
commonly asynchronous modems (v.32, v.32bis, v.34 and others), but
also synchronous modems, terminal servers and network hubs and
cabling systems.
misc.forsale.computers.monitors (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.monitors is for articles to sell or buy
computer monitors. Most commonly this would be hardware-inde-
pendent multiscan monitors, but possibly also LCD or eleectro-
luminescent ddisplay panels, projection displays or fixed-
frequency monitors.
misc.forsale.computers.printers (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.printers is for articles to buy and sell
hardcopy output devices of all types, including laser printers,
LED printers, inkjet printers, dot matrix printers, thermal
printers, line printers and pen plotters.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific is for articles to buy and sell
computer equipment (systems, components and/or peripherals) and
software that is specific to the PC "clone" platform. It is not
for platform-independent equipment.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific is for articles to buy and sell
computer equipment (systems, components and/or peripherals) and
software that is specific to the Macintosh platform. It is not
for platform-independent equipment.
misc.forsale.computers.discussion (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.discussion is for discussion relating to
the .forsale.computer groups, to items for sale in the same
and any other .forsale-related articles that do not offer to sell
or buy computer equipment.
COMMERCIAL ADVERTISING
There have been several requests during this discussion to specifically
outlaw commercial postings in the new groups' charters. However, it is
not clear to me how such a restriction should be worded, and exactly
what would constitute a commercial posting. Further comments on this
topic are welcome.
DISCUSSION AND VOTING
The discussion period will last at least a further 10 days from the
date in the header of this 2nd RFD. All discussion should take place
in news.groups. The groups in this proposal are subject to change,
and if necessary, a final, further revised RFD will be posted prior
to the end of the discussion period.
A CFV (Call for Votes) will be posted after the end of the discussion
period. The vote will be run by a neutral third party.
This RFD attempts to fully comply with Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines set in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup". Please
refer to this document if you have questions about the process.
--
[ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[ "where all men think alike, no one thinks very much" -- walter lippman ]
From tomh@metrics.com Tue Aug 16 16:36:30 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone,misc.forsale.computers.other,misc.forsale.computers.workstation,misc.forsale.computers.mac,misc.forsale.computers.d,misc.forsale,misc.wanted
Subject: 3rd RFD: misc.forsale.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 15 Aug 1994 15:08:55 -0400
Organization: Software Metrics Inc.
Lines: 311
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <32oeg7$2vi@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5506 news.groups:112530 misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone:70734 misc.forsale.computers.other:32369 misc.forsale.computers.workstation:12189 misc.forsale.computers.mac:36202 misc.forsale.computers.d:6531 misc.forsale:153591 misc.wanted:45492
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
on creating
misc.forsale.computers.communications
misc.forsale.computers.memory
misc.forsale.computers.monitors
misc.forsale.computers.printers
misc.forsale.computers.storage
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.software
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.video-cards
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.motherboards
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.audio
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.video-cards
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.software
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc
misc.forsale.computers.other.software
misc.forsale.computers.other.systems
misc.forsale.computers.other.misc
and removing
misc.forsale.computers.mac
misc.forsale.computers.other
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
and renaming
misc.forsale.* HIERARCHY to misc.marketplace.*
misc.forsale to misc.forsale.non-computer
misc.forsale.computers.d to misc.forsale.computers.discussion
INTRODUCTION
The misc.forsale.computers is one of the busiest hierarchies on Usenet,
with over 20,000 articles posted each month in its various subgroups.
Its usefulness is further limited by excessive crossposting and the
difficulty of determining the correct groups for many items.
While it was initially proposed to create only a handful of new groups
for platform-independent hardware, the general consensus among those
participating in the discussions has been to use this opportunity to
create a logical organization for the present and the future. As a
result, this RFD proposes a comprehensive reorganization of all the
misc.forsale.computers.* groups with only a few remaining untouched;
*PLEASE* take the time to read through the rationale below to understand
the reasoning behind the proposals.
RATIONALE
1. Non-computer group
It is proposed that the group misc.forsale be renamed to misc.-
forsale.non-computer as it is currently inundated with a variety
of postings about computer equipment, making up 30-40% of the
group's traffic. A clear name will hopefully assist in retaining
this group for things other than computers, and direct computer-
related traffic to the appropriate subgroups in that subhierarchy.
2. Platform-independent hardware
While the current division makes it clear where to sell or to look
for a Sun workstation, or a 386-based PC, or a Macintosh, it does
not take into account the increasingly large amount of hardware that
is standardized across platforms. SCSI disks, tape drives, modems,
laser, inkjet and dot matrix printers and multiscan monitors are
usable on a wide variety of equipment.
Where does one advertise a multiscan monitor today? In .pc-clone?
But it's not a clone in itself, so maybe it should go into .other?
But if it's a 17" monitor, maybe the folks in .workstation would
be more interested... They might also appear as the right target
market for a 1 GB SCSI drive -- but maybe it should be crossposted
to *all* the groups since everyone can use SCSI drives.
Clearly there is no well-defined place for selling standardized
cross-platform peripherals. Providing a place for this hardware
will not only make it easier to buy and sell such equipment, it will
also reduce the amount of cross-posting into groups such as
.workstation.
Thus, it is proposed to create misc.{forsale,marketplace}.storage,
.memory, .communications and .printers.
3. PC hardware
The .pc-clone group is currently experiencing traffic in excess of
200 articles on most days. First, it is proposed that the .pc-clone
be renamed to .pc-specific to make it clear that it is intended for
PC-specific hardware only, and not for items such as printers,
monitors and hard disks.
Second, it is proposed to create several subgroups to handle the
heavy traffic in the PC group. These groups include .systems,
.software, .video-cards (not .video in order to make it clear that
monitors do not belong in this group), .audio, .motherboards and
.misc. Memory, monitors, modems and disks are to be posted in the
hardware-independent groups.
4. Macintosh hardware
The .mac group is also experiencing very heavy traffic, usually over
100 articles per day. First, it is proposed that the .mac be
renamed to .mac-specific to make it clear that it is intended for
Mac-specific hardware only, and not for items such as printers,
monitors and hard disks.
Second, it is proposed to create several subgroups to handle the
heavy traffic. These groups include .systems, .software, .video-
cards (not .video in order to make it clear that monitors do not
belong in this group), .portables and .misc. Memory, monitors,
modems and disks are to be posted in the hardware-independent groups.
5. Workstation hardware
It is proposed that the .workstation group not be renamed to
.unix-only, since workstations may or may not run Unix, and both PCs
and Macintoshes are also capable of running Unix. Further, the
traffic is not currently high enough to warrant a split.
6. Discussion group
Finally, the .discussion group name will be far more obvious to
new users of Usenet than the traditional .d currently used. This
will hopefully reduce the large number of "for sale" articles that
are currently posted to the .d group.
7. Hierarchy rename
In order to reflect the groups' content of both buy and sell articles,
a hierarchy name of .marketplace would be preferable to .forsale.
However, group-advice@uunet.uu.net STRONGLY adviced against a rename
of the hierarchy at this point, so it is not proposed at this time.
8. Commercial posts
As it is impossible to prevent commercial posts; as there is no
overall agreement on whether commercial posts should be banned; and
as it is not clear when commercial posts are "below market prices"
(as per the FAQ), it is proposed that all commercial posts in the
misc.forsale.* groups must contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the
Subject: line.
A keyword flagging mechanism will allow most readers to eliminate
commercial posts (using KILL files) if they so wish; it will enable
others to find the commercial posts easily, if they prefer to deal
with businesses only; and it is a relatively harmless addition for
business' posts, posing little incentive to ignore this guideline.
CURRENT READERSHIP DATA (July 1994)
+-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.
| +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population
| | +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all
| | | +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)
| | | | +-- Recent traffic (megabytes per month)
| | | | | +-- Share: % of newsrders
| | | | | | who read this group.
V V V V V V
6 290000 2757 81% 5385 5.0 5.6% misc.forsale
87 110000 1194 72% 6163 5.6 2.4% misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
151 90000 966 71% 2989 2.5 2.0% misc.forsale.computers.mac
160 88000 928 72% 2370 1.9 1.9% misc.forsale.computers.other
325 65000 707 70% 863 0.7 1.4% misc.forsale.computers.workstation
446 55000 603 69% 433 0.5 1.2% misc.forsale.computers.d
957 30000 509 45% 575 0.6 1.0% misc.forsale.computers *
2056 7200 218 25% 128 0.0 0.4% misc.forsale.wanted
* obsolete group
[Note that the total readership estimates appear inaccurate due to the
calculation method used; however, this does not affect the rationale of
the current proposal.]
PROPOSED CHARTERS
[Note that all groups permit buying *AND* selling of equipment.]
misc.forsale.computers.storage (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.storage is primarily for articles to sell
or buy hardware-independent storage devices. Typically this is
SCSI equipment (of various flavours): hard disks, tape drives, DAT
drives, CD-ROMs, optical disks, removable hard disks and others.
Less hardware-independent equipment (such as IDE hard disks or QIC
tape drives) would also be acceptable. Commercial postings must
contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.memory (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.communications is for articles to sell or
buy memory (RAM, ROM and flash memory) in all the myriad forms:
SIMMs, SIPPs, DIPs, 8-bit and 9-bit, and anything anyone might have
or need. Commercial postings must contain the keyword COMMERCIAL:
in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.communications (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.communications is for articles to sell or
buy hardware-independent communications equipment. This is most
commonly asynchronous modems (v.32, v.32bis, v.34 and others), but
also synchronous modems, terminal servers and network hubs and
cabling systems. Commercial postings must contain the keyword
COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.monitors (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.monitors is for articles to sell or buy
computer monitors. Most commonly this would be hardware-inde-
pendent multiscan monitors, but possibly also LCD or eleectro-
luminescent ddisplay panels, projection displays or fixed-
frequency monitors. Commercial postings must contain the keyword
COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.printers (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.printers is for articles to buy and sell
hardcopy output devices of all types, including laser printers,
LED printers, inkjet printers, dot matrix printers, thermal
printers, line printers and pen plotters. Commercial postings must
contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell complete PC-compatible computer systems. Commercial
postings must contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.software (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows-based software. Commercial
postings must contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.video-cards (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell video display cards for PC-compatible systems. Commercial
postings must contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.audio (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell audio equipment for PC-compatible systems. Commercial
postings must contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.motherboards (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell PC-compatible motherboards. Commercial postings must
contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc is for articles to buy and
sell PC-specific equipment not covered by other misc.forsale.-
computers.pc-specific subgroups, or by the hardware-independent
misc.forsale.computers subgroups (.storage, .monitors, .memory and
.communications). Commercial postings must contain the keyword
COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell complete Macintosh desktop and server systems. Commercial
postings must contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables is for articles to buy
and sell portable Macintosh (e.g. PowerBook) systems. Commercial
postings must contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.software (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell Macintosh-based software. Commercial postings must contain
the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.video-cards (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell video display cards for Macintosh systems. Commercial
postings must contain the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc is for articles to buy and
sell Macintosh-specific equipment not covered by other misc.forsale.-
computers.mac-specific subgroups, or by the hardware-independent
misc.forsale.computers subgroups (.storage, .monitors, .memory and
.communications). Commercial postings must contain the keyword
COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
misc.forsale.computers.discussion (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.discussion is for discussion relating to
the .forsale.computer groups, to items for sale in the same
and any other .forsale-related articles that do not offer to sell
or buy computer equipment.
misc.forsale.non-computer (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.non-computer is for articles to buy and sell any and
all non-computer-related items. Commercial postings must contain
the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the Subject: line.
COMMERCIAL ADVERTISING
There have been several requests during this discussion to specifically
outlaw commercial postings in the new groups' charters. However, it is
not clear to me how such a restriction should be worded, and exactly
what would constitute a commercial posting. Further, it is not currently
possible to effectively enforce a ban on commercial posting, even if
such posts were clearly identifiable.
As a result, it is proposed that all commercial postings must include
the keyword COMMERCIAL: in the subject line. This allows everyone to
use the groups as currently, and yet allows people to easily kill the
commercial posts if they so desire. Further, it is neither an onerous
nor a incapacitating requirement for commerical posters, who should
thus hopefully be willing to co-operate with such a scheme.
DISCUSSION AND VOTING
The discussion period will last at least a further 7 days from the
date in the header of this 3rd RFD. All discussion should take place
in news.groups. The groups in this proposal are subject to change,
and if major changes are necessary, a final, 4th, RFD will be posted
prior to the voting.
A CFV (Call for Votes) will be posted after the end of the discussion
period. The vote will be run by a neutral third party.
This RFD attempts to fully comply with Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines set in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup". Please
refer to this document if you have questions about the process.
--
[ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[ "work for something because it is good, not simply because ]
[ it has a chance to succeed." -- vaclav havel ]
From tomh@metrics.com Thu Sep 1 11:15:57 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,biz.config,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone,misc.forsale.computers.other,misc.forsale.computers.workstation,misc.forsale.computers.mac,misc.forsale.computers.d,misc.forsale
Subject: 4th RFD: misc.forsale.* reorganization, biz.marketplace.*
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 1 Sep 1994 11:09:16 -0400
Organization: Software Metrics Inc.
Lines: 368
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <344qqs$akb@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5579 news.groups:114695 biz.config:292 misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone:74439 misc.forsale.computers.other:33635 misc.forsale.computers.workstation:12729 misc.forsale.computers.mac:37943 misc.forsale.computers.d:6793 misc.forsale:156519
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
on creating
misc.forsale.computers.modems
misc.forsale.computers.network-hardware
misc.forsale.computers.memory
misc.forsale.computers.monitors
misc.forsale.computers.printers
misc.forsale.computers.storage
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.software
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.video-cards
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.motherboards
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.audio
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.portables
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.video-cards
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.software
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc
misc.forsale.computers.other.software
misc.forsale.computers.other.systems
misc.forsale.computers.other.misc
and removing
misc.forsale.wanted
misc.forsale.computers.mac
misc.forsale.computers.other
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
and renaming
misc.forsale to misc.forsale.non-computer
misc.forsale.computers.d to misc.forsale.computers.discuss
[ AND creating biz.marketplace.* groups corresponding to to each of ]
[ the proposed misc.forsale newsgroups, for commercial postings only. ]
[ The biz.marketplace.* proposal is outside the scope of the usual ]
[ Guidelines, and thus will not be voted on in the traditional CFV. ]
INTRODUCTION
The misc.forsale.computers is one of the busiest hierarchies on Usenet,
with over 20,000 articles posted each month in its various subgroups.
Its usefulness is further limited by excessive crossposting and the
difficulty of determining the correct groups for many items.
While it was initially proposed to create only a handful of new groups
for platform-independent hardware, the general consensus among those
participating in the discussions has been to use this opportunity to
create a logical organization for the present and the future. As a
result, this RFD proposes a comprehensive reorganization of all the
misc.forsale.computers.* groups with only a few remaining untouched;
*PLEASE* take the time to read through the rationale below to understand
the reasoning behind the proposals.
RATIONALE
1. Non-computer group
It is proposed that the group misc.forsale be renamed to misc.-
forsale.non-computer as it is currently inundated with a variety
of postings about computer equipment, making up 30-40% of the
group's traffic. A clear name will hopefully assist in retaining
this group for things other than computers, and direct computer-
related traffic to the appropriate subgroups in that subhierarchy.
2. Platform-independent hardware
While the current division makes it clear where to sell or to look
for a Sun workstation, or a 386-based PC, or a Macintosh, it does
not take into account the increasingly large amount of hardware that
is standardized across platforms. SCSI disks, tape drives, modems,
laser, inkjet and dot matrix printers and multiscan monitors are
usable on a wide variety of equipment.
Where does one advertise a multiscan monitor today? In .pc-clone?
But it's not a clone in itself, so maybe it should go into .other?
But if it's a 17" monitor, maybe the folks in .workstation would
be more interested... They might also appear as the right target
market for a 1 GB SCSI drive -- but maybe it should be crossposted
to *all* the groups since everyone can use SCSI drives.
Clearly there is no well-defined place for selling standardized
cross-platform peripherals. Providing a place for this hardware
will not only make it easier to buy and sell such equipment, it will
also reduce the amount of cross-posting into groups such as
.workstation.
Thus, it is proposed to create misc.{forsale,marketplace}.storage,
.memory, .modems, .network-hardware and .printers. It was originally
proposed to create .communications, but this was split to .modems and
.network-hardware after numerous comments in news.groups.
3. PC hardware
The .pc-clone group is currently experiencing traffic in excess of
200 articles on most days. First, it is proposed that the .pc-clone
be renamed to .pc-specific to make it clear that it is intended for
PC-specific hardware only, and not for items such as printers,
monitors and hard disks.
Second, it is proposed to create several subgroups to handle the
heavy traffic in the PC group. These groups include .systems,
.software, .video-cards (not .video in order to make it clear that
monitors do not belong in this group), .audio, .motherboards and
.misc. Memory, monitors, modems and disks are to be posted in the
hardware-independent groups.
Several people are opposed to the -specific suffic due to the group
name length; however, the opinions are quite evenly split, so I am
using my best judgement and staying with the -specific suffix for
the reasons outlined above.
4. Macintosh hardware
The .mac group is also experiencing very heavy traffic, usually over
100 articles per day. First, it is proposed that the .mac be
renamed to .mac-specific to make it clear that it is intended for
Mac-specific hardware only, and not for items such as printers,
monitors and hard disks.
Second, it is proposed to create several subgroups to handle the
heavy traffic. These groups include .systems, .software, .video-
cards (not .video in order to make it clear that monitors do not
belong in this group), .portables and .misc. Memory, monitors,
modems and disks are to be posted in the hardware-independent groups.
Several people are opposed to the -specific suffic due to the group
name length; however, the opinions are quite evenly split, so I am
using my best judgement and staying with the -specific suffix for
the reasons outlined above.
5. Workstation hardware
It is proposed that the .workstation group not be renamed to
.unix-only, since workstations may or may not run Unix, and both PCs
and Macintoshes are also capable of running Unix. Further, the
traffic is not currently high enough to warrant a split.
6. Discussion group
Finally, the .discuss group name will be far more obvious to
new users of Usenet than the traditional .d currently used. This
will hopefully reduce the large number of "for sale" articles that
are currently posted to the .d group.
7. Hierarchy rename
In order to reflect the groups' content of both buy and sell articles,
a hierarchy name of .marketplace would be preferable to .forsale.
However, group-advice@uunet.uu.net STRONGLY adviced against a rename
of the hierarchy at this point, so it is not proposed at this time.
9. Wanted group
It is proposed that all "wanted" or "buy" postings be posted in
the specific newsgroups, and not in misc.forsale.wanted, which
is barely used (only 2% of the traffic of the current .pc-clone
group) and poorly propagated. As a result, it is proposed that
the current .wanted group be removed.
9. Commercial posts
There is considerable opposition to commercial postings in the
misc.forsale groups; however, there is no overall agreement on
whether commercial posts should be totally banned; and there is
no way to enforce such a ban.
As a method of resolving this, it is proposed to create a new
hierarchy, biz.marketplace.*, to mirror the misc.forsale.* group
hierarchy, intended for exclusively commercial postings. This
will provide a clear place for such posts, while allowing the
buyers to easily select a commercial or non-commercial seller.
It will also allow sites so inclined to easily decline all
commercial postings.
The biz.* hierarchy is generally fairly well proagated; most active
groups have a propagation of around 55% of Usenet, only somewhat
lower than misc.forsale.* groups' current 70% average -- and
much better than misc.forsale.wanted's 25%. An active marketplace
hierarchy will also help to improve the biz.* propagation.
The set of biz.marketplace.* groups to be created will correspond
to the results of the misc.forsale.* vote; each group of the
format misc.forsale.x{.y{.z}} will have a corresponding misc.-
marketplace.x{.y{.z}} group for commercial postings.
CURRENT READERSHIP DATA (July 1994)
+-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.
| +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population
| | +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all
| | | +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)
| | | | +-- Recent traffic (megabytes per month)
| | | | | +-- Share: % of newsrders
| | | | | | who read this group.
V V V V V V
6 290000 2757 81% 5385 5.0 5.6% misc.forsale
87 110000 1194 72% 6163 5.6 2.4% misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
151 90000 966 71% 2989 2.5 2.0% misc.forsale.computers.mac
160 88000 928 72% 2370 1.9 1.9% misc.forsale.computers.other
325 65000 707 70% 863 0.7 1.4% misc.forsale.computers.workstation
446 55000 603 69% 433 0.5 1.2% misc.forsale.computers.d
957 30000 509 45% 575 0.6 1.0% misc.forsale.computers *
2056 7200 218 25% 128 0.0 0.4% misc.forsale.wanted
* obsolete group
[Note that the total readership estimates appear inaccurate due to the
calculation method used; however, this does not affect the rationale of
the current proposal.]
PROPOSED CHARTERS
[Note that`all groups permit buying *AND* selling of equipment.]
misc.forsale.computers.storage (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.storage is primarily for articles to sell
or buy hardware-independent storage devices. Typically this is
SCSI equipment (of various flavours): hard disks, tape drives, DAT
drives, CD-ROMs, optical disks, removable hard disks and others.
Less hardware-independent equipment (such as IDE hard disks or QIC
tape drives) would also be acceptable. No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.memory (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.memory is for articles to sell or buy memory
(RAM, ROM and flash memory) in all the myriad forms: SIMMs, SIPPs,
DIPs, 8-bit and 9-bit, and anything anyone might have or need. No
commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.modems (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.modems is for articles to sell or buy
hardware-independent modems, most commonly asynchronous (v.32,
v.32bis, v.34 and others), but also synchronous models. No
commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.network-hardware (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.network-hardware is for articles to sell or
buy hardware-independent networking equipment. This category
contains, but is not limited to, routers, hubs, concentrators,
terminal servers and cabling systems. No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.monitors (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.monitors is for articles to sell or buy
computer monitors. Most commonly this would be hardware-inde-
pendent multiscan monitors, but possibly also LCD or eleectro-
luminescent ddisplay panels, projection displays or fixed-
frequency monitors. No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.printers (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.printers is for articles to buy and sell
hardcopy output devices of all types, including laser printers,
LED printers, inkjet printers, dot matrix printers, thermal
printers, line printers and pen plotters. No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell complete PC-compatible desktop and/or tower computer systems.
No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.portables (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.portables is for articles to buy
and sell complete PC-compatible laptop and notebook computer systems.
No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.software (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.software is for articles to buy
and sell MS-DOS, Microsoft Windows and other PC-specific software.
No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.video-cards (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.video-cards is for articles to buy
and sell video display cards for PC-compatible systems. No commercial
postings.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.audio (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.audio is for articles to buy
and sell audio equipment for PC-compatible systems. No commercial
postings.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.motherboards (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.motherboards is for articles to
buy and sell PC-compatible motherboards. No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc is for articles to buy and
sell PC-specific equipment not covered by other misc.forsale.-
computers.pc-specific subgroups, or by the hardware-independent
misc.forsale.computers subgroups (.storage, .monitors, .memory and
.communications). No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems is for articles to buy
and sell complete Macintosh desktop and server systems. No commercial
postings.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables is for articles to buy
and sell portable Macintosh (e.g. PowerBook) systems. No commercial
postings.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.software (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.software is for articles to buy
and sell Macintosh-based software. No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.video-cards (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.video-cards is for articles to buy
and sell video display cards for Macintosh systems. No commercial
postings.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc is for articles to buy and
sell Macintosh-specific equipment not covered by other misc.forsale.-
computers.mac-specific subgroups, or by the hardware-independent
misc.forsale.computers subgroups (.storage, .monitors, .memory and
.communications). No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.other.systems (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.other.systems is for articles to buy and
sell systems other than PC-compatibles, Macintoshes and workstations.
No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.other.software (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.other.software is for articles to buy and
sell software for systems other than PC-compatibles, Macintoshes
and workstations. No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.other.misc (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.other.misc is for articles to buy and sell
other equipment not covered by the misc.forsale. computers.*
subgroups, other than systems and software. No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.computers.discuss (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.computers.discuss is for discussion relating to
the .forsale.computer groups, to items for sale in the same
and any other .forsale-related articles that do not offer to sell
or buy computer equipment. No commercial postings.
misc.forsale.non-computer (unmoderated)
misc.forsale.non-computer is for articles to buy and sell any and
all non-computer-related items. No commercial postings.
The charter of each proposed biz.marketplace.* group would match the
corresponding misc.forsale.* group, with the exception of the last
sentence, which would be changed to "Commercial postings only" for
all biz.marketplace.* groups.
COMMERCIAL ADVERTISING
There have been several requests during this discussion to specifically
outlaw commercial postings in the new groups' charters. With the
proposal to create a mirroring biz.marketplace.* hierarchy, it is
proposed that no commercial posting be permitted in misc.forsale
groups -- "commercial" meaning sales in the ordinary course of
business. Disposal of used and surplus equipment etc. would still
be considered acceptable.
All commercial posts should be made in the appropriate biz.marketplace.*
group.
DISCUSSION AND VOTING
The discussion period will last at least a further 7 days from the
date in the header of this 4th RFD. All discussion should take place
in news.groups. The groups in this proposal are subject to change,
and if major changes are necessary, a final, 5th, RFD will be posted
prior to the voting.
A CFV (Call for Votes) will be posted after the end of the discussion
period. The vote will be run by a neutral third party.
This RFD attempts to fully comply with Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines set in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup". Please
refer to this document if you have questions about the process.
--
[ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[ "time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" ]
From gt0670e@prism.gatech.edu Tue Oct 4 15:36:04 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: gt0670e@prism.gatech.edu (Brennan T. Price)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,biz.config,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone,misc.forsale.computers.other,misc.forsale.computers.workstation,misc.forsale.computers.mac,misc.forsale.computers.d,misc.forsale
Subject: CFV: misc.forsale.* reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 4 Oct 1994 14:36:45 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 464
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 26 Oct 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <misc.forsale-reorg-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
References: <misc.forsale-reorg-RFD1@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: gt0670e@prism.gatech.edu (Brennan T. Price)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5735 news.groups:118935 biz.config:417 misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone:81937 misc.forsale.computers.other:36309 misc.forsale.computers.workstation:13976 misc.forsale.computers.mac:41685 misc.forsale.computers.d:7395 misc.forsale:162181
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
misc.forsale.* reorganization
To CREATE the unmoderated groups:
misc.forsale.computers.modems
misc.forsale.computers.net-hardware
misc.forsale.computers.memory
misc.forsale.computers.monitors
misc.forsale.computers.printers
misc.forsale.computers.storage
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.software
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.cards.video
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.cards.misc
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.motherboards
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.audio
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.portables
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.cards.video
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.cards.misc
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.software
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc
misc.forsale.computers.other.software
misc.forsale.computers.other.systems
misc.forsale.computers.other.misc
and REMOVE:
misc.forsale.computers.mac
misc.forsale.computers.other
misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
and RENAME:
misc.forsale to misc.forsale.non-computer
misc.forsale.computers.d to misc.forsale.computers.discussion
misc.forsale.workstation to misc.forsale.computers.workstation
[ AND create biz.marketplace.* groups corresponding to to each of ]
[ the proposed misc.forsale newsgroups, for commercial postings only. ]
[ The biz.marketplace.* proposal is outside the scope of the usual ]
[ Guidelines, and thus will not be voted on in this traditional CFV. ]
Newsgroups lines:
misc.forsale.computers.modems Modems for sale and wanted.
misc.forsale.computers.net-hardware Networking hardware for sale and wanted.
misc.forsale.computers.memory Memory chips and modules for sale and wanted.
misc.forsale.computers.monitors Monitors and displays for sale and wanted.
misc.forsale.computers.printers Printers and plotters for sale and wanted.
misc.forsale.computers.storage Disk, CDROM and tape drives for sale and wanted.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.software Macintosh software.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems Complete Macintosh systems.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables Portable Macintosh systems.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.cards.misc Macintosh expansion cards.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.cards.video Macintosh video cards.
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc Other Macintosh equipment.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.motherboards PC motherboards.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.audio PC audio equipment.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.portables Portable PC systems.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.cards.misc PC expansion cards.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.cards.video PC video cards.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.software PC software.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems Complete PC systems.
misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc Other PC-specific equipment.
misc.forsale.computers.other.software Software for other systems.
misc.forsale.computers.other.systems Complete other types of systems.
misc.forsale.computers.other.misc Miscellaneous other equipment.
misc.forsale.non-computer Non-computer items for sale and wanted.
misc.forsale.computers.discussion Discussions only about items for sale.
misc.forsale.computers.workstation Workstations for sale and wanted.
Votes must be received by 29:59:59 UTC, 25 Oct 1994.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact gt0670e@prism.gatech.edu. For questions about the
proposed groups contact Tom Haapanen <tomh@metrics.com>.
INTRODUCTION
The misc.forsale.computers is one of the busiest hierarchies on Usenet,
with over 20,000 articles posted each month in its various subgroups.
Its usefulness is further limited by excessive crossposting and the
difficulty of determining the correct groups for many items.
While it was initially proposed to create only a handful of new groups
for platform-independent hardware, the general consensus among those
participating in the discussions has been to use this opportunity to
create a logical organization for the present and the future. As a
result, this RFD proposes a comprehensive reorganization of all the
misc.forsale.computers.* groups with only a few remaining untouched;
*PLEASE* take the time to read through the rationale below to understand
the reasoning behind the proposals.
RATIONALE
1. Non-computer group
It is proposed that the group misc.forsale be renamed to misc.-
forsale.non-computer as it is currently inundated with a variety
of postings about computer equipment, making up 30-40% of the
group's traffic. A clear name will hopefully assist in retaining
this group for things other than computers, and direct computer-
related traffic to the appropriate subgroups in that subhierarchy.
2. Platform-independent hardware
While the current division makes it clear where to sell or to look
for a Sun workstation, or a 386-based PC, or a Macintosh, it does
not take into account the increasingly large amount of hardware that
is standardized across platforms. SCSI disks, tape drives, modems,
laser, inkjet and dot matrix printers and multiscan monitors are
usable on a wide variety of equipment.
Where does one advertise a multiscan monitor today? In .pc-clone?
But it's not a clone in itself, so maybe it should go into .other?
But if it's a 17" monitor, maybe the folks in .workstation would
be more interested... They might also appear as the right target
market for a 1 GB SCSI drive -- but maybe it should be crossposted
to *all* the groups since everyone can use SCSI drives.
Clearly there is no well-defined place for selling standardized
cross-platform peripherals. Providing a place for this hardware
will not only make it easier to buy and sell such equipment, it will
also reduce the amount of cross-posting into groups such as
.workstation.
Thus, it is proposed to create misc.forsale.storage,
.memory, .modems, .net-hardware and .printers. It was originally
proposed to create .communications, but this was split to .modems and
.net-hardware after numerous comments in news.groups.
3. PC hardware
The .pc-clone group is currently experiencing traffic in excess of
200 articles on most days. First, it is proposed that the .pc-clone
be renamed to .pc-specific to make it clear that it is intended for
PC-specific hardware only, and not for items such as printers,
monitors and hard disks.
Second, it is proposed to create several subgroups to handle the
heavy traffic in the PC group. These groups include .systems,
software, .cards.video, .cards.misc, .audio, .motherboards and
.misc. Memory, monitors, modems and disks are to be posted in the
hardware-independent groups.
Several people are opposed to the -specific suffic due to the group
name length; however, the opinions are quite evenly split, so I am
using my best judgement and staying with the -specific suffix for
the reasons outlined above.
4. Macintosh hardware
The .mac group is also experiencing very heavy traffic, usually over
100 articles per day. First, it is proposed that the .mac be
renamed to .mac-specific to make it clear that it is intended for
Mac-specific hardware only, and not for items such as printers,
monitors and hard disks.
Second, it is proposed to create several subgroups to handle the
heavy traffic. These groups include .systems, .software,
cards.video, cards.misc, .portables and .misc. Memory, monitors,
modems and disks are to be posted in the hardware-independent groups.
Several people are opposed to the -specific suffic due to the group
name length; however, the opinions are quite evenly split, so I am
using my best judgement and staying with the -specific suffix for
the reasons outlined above.
5. Workstation hardware
It is proposed that the .workstation group not be renamed to
.unix-only, since workst 
