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Health ( misc.kids.health )
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 21:45:02 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032039462.6249@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:37:42 UTC
Lines: 597
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11803 news.groups:410398 misc.kids:527993 misc.kids.moderated:18492 misc.kids.info:4582
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 21:45:24 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032039513.6260@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:38:33 UTC
Lines: 597
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11804 news.groups:410399 misc.kids.pregnancy:591920 misc.kids.health:102401 misc.kids.breastfeeding:181361
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 21:45:46 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.consumers,misc.kids.computer,misc.kids.vacation
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032039578.6271@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:39:38 UTC
Lines: 597
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11805 news.groups:410400 misc.kids.consumers:6933 misc.kids.computer:19968 misc.kids.vacation:10921
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 22:04:57 2002
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From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
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From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
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From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 22:04:58 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
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REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 22:05:40 2002
Path: news.isc.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!tethys.csu.net!nntp!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032041098.351407@isc.org>
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Date: 14 Sep 2002 17:05:19 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
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NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Sep 2002 22:05:20 GMT
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From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
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Unapproved article for news.announce.newgroups auto-cancelled
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From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 22:05:41 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
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Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11807 news.groups:410406 misc.kids:528000 misc.kids.moderated:18494 misc.kids.info:4584
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 22:33:45 2002
Path: news.isc.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032041141.351868@isc.org>
Control: cancel <1032041141.351868@isc.org>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Sep 2002 17:05:50 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
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NNTP-Posting-Host: news.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Sep 2002 22:05:50 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
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From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 22:33:46 2002
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Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <am0bru$37$1@news.tamu.edu>
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Unapproved article for news.announce.newgroups auto-cancelled
by daemon on behalf of moderator.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 22:33:46 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032042825.352511@isc.org>
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Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11808 news.groups:410414 misc.kids:528005 misc.kids.moderated:18495 misc.kids.info:4585
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 23:04:55 2002
Path: news.isc.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032042825.352511@isc.org>
Control: cancel <1032042825.352511@isc.org>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Sep 2002 17:34:02 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
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NNTP-Posting-Host: news.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Sep 2002 22:34:02 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
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From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 23:04:56 2002
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Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <am0dgq$1qm$1@news.tamu.edu>
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Unapproved article for news.announce.newgroups auto-cancelled
by daemon on behalf of moderator.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 23:04:56 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032044695.353872@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
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Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11809 news.groups:410425 misc.kids:528008 misc.kids.moderated:18496 misc.kids.info:4586
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 23:07:11 2002
Path: news.isc.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.smu.edu!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032044695.353872@isc.org>
Control: cancel <1032044695.353872@isc.org>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Sep 2002 18:05:21 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
Lines: 2
Approved: pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu
Message-ID: <am0fbh$3ab$1@news.tamu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Sep 2002 23:05:21 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
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Article cancelled by PGP Moose Daemon pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 23:07:12 2002
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Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <am0fbh$3ab$1@news.tamu.edu>
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Date: 14 Sep 02 23:07:11 GMT
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Xref: news.isc.org control.cancel:12642276
Unapproved article for news.announce.newgroups auto-cancelled
by daemon on behalf of moderator.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 23:07:12 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032044832.353596@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
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Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11810 news.groups:410426 misc.kids:528009 misc.kids.moderated:18497 misc.kids.info:4587
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 23:33:53 2002
Path: news.isc.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032044832.353596@isc.org>
Control: cancel <1032044832.353596@isc.org>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Sep 2002 18:07:26 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
Lines: 2
Approved: pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu
Message-ID: <am0ffe$3ia$1@news.tamu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Sep 2002 23:07:26 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
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Xref: news.isc.org control.cancel:12642338
Article cancelled by PGP Moose Daemon pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 23:33:54 2002
Control: cancel <am0ffe$3ia$1@news.tamu.edu>
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <am0ffe$3ia$1@news.tamu.edu>
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Xref: news.isc.org control.cancel:12642339
Unapproved article for news.announce.newgroups auto-cancelled
by daemon on behalf of moderator.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 23:33:55 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032046434.354230@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:37:42 UTC
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Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11811 news.groups:410432 misc.kids:528010 misc.kids.moderated:18498 misc.kids.info:4588
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 00:04:47 2002
Path: news.isc.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032046434.354230@isc.org>
Control: cancel <1032046434.354230@isc.org>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Sep 2002 18:34:23 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
Lines: 2
Approved: pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu
Message-ID: <am0h1v$4sg$1@news.tamu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Sep 2002 23:34:24 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP pmcancel@localhost
iQBFAwUBPYPHfdxyqQykuBqxAQH8AwGAskcYX3E+VOrsJKMtIOEXEZv8SboL9PvM
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Xref: news.isc.org control.cancel:12642362
Article cancelled by PGP Moose Daemon pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 00:04:48 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032048287.355788@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:37:42 UTC
Lines: 597
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11812 news.groups:410434 misc.kids:528016 misc.kids.moderated:18499 misc.kids.info:4589
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 00:04:48 2002
Control: cancel <am0h1v$4sg$1@news.tamu.edu>
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <am0h1v$4sg$1@news.tamu.edu>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 15 Sep 02 00:04:47 GMT
Lines: 2
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Message-ID: <c355788-am0h1v$4sg$1@news.tamu.edu>
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
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From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032048287.355788@isc.org>
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Date: 14 Sep 2002 19:05:06 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
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NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Sep 2002 00:05:06 GMT
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From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 00:33:46 2002
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Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <am0iri$6su$1@news.tamu.edu>
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Date: 15 Sep 02 00:33:45 GMT
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Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Xref: news.isc.org control.cancel:12642372
Unapproved article for news.announce.newgroups auto-cancelled
by daemon on behalf of moderator.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 00:33:46 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032050025.356590@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:37:42 UTC
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Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11813 news.groups:410439 misc.kids:528020 misc.kids.moderated:18500 misc.kids.info:4590
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 01:04:48 2002
Path: news.isc.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032050025.356590@isc.org>
Control: cancel <1032050025.356590@isc.org>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Sep 2002 19:34:07 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
Lines: 2
Approved: pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu
Message-ID: <am0khv$8oe$1@news.tamu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Sep 2002 00:34:07 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP pmcancel@localhost
iQBFAwUBPYPVftxyqQykuBqxAQF3XAGApUfSck5x/k8Yz/2Vt7mO/uOOi72SouIn
wAZNgWclxTpwH+eQCjEKsKXLmFnpcj+9
=6loc
Xref: news.isc.org control.cancel:12642401
Article cancelled by PGP Moose Daemon pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 01:04:49 2002
Control: cancel <am0khv$8oe$1@news.tamu.edu>
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <am0khv$8oe$1@news.tamu.edu>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 15 Sep 02 01:04:49 GMT
Lines: 2
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Message-ID: <c357540-am0khv$8oe$1@news.tamu.edu>
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Xref: news.isc.org control.cancel:12642402
Unapproved article for news.announce.newgroups auto-cancelled
by daemon on behalf of moderator.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 01:04:49 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032051889.357540@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:37:42 UTC
Lines: 597
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11814 news.groups:410441 misc.kids:528030 misc.kids.moderated:18501 misc.kids.info:4591
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 01:33:46 2002
Path: news.isc.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032051889.357540@isc.org>
Control: cancel <1032051889.357540@isc.org>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Sep 2002 20:05:10 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
Lines: 2
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From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 01:33:47 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
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Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:37:42 UTC
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Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11815 news.groups:410445 misc.kids:528037 misc.kids.moderated:18502 misc.kids.info:4592
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 01:33:47 2002
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From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
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REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 02:33:42 2002
Path: news.isc.org!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032055488.359321@isc.org>
Control: cancel <1032055488.359321@isc.org>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Sep 2002 21:05:07 -0500
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
Lines: 2
Approved: pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu
Message-ID: <am0psj$egg$1@news.tamu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Sep 2002 02:05:08 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
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Article cancelled by PGP Moose Daemon pgpmoose@news.tamu.edu.
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 15 02:33:43 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032057223.362094@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:37:42 UTC
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Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11817 news.groups:410448 misc.kids:528048 misc.kids.moderated:18504 misc.kids.info:4594
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
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From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <am0psj$egg$1@news.tamu.edu>
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Date: 15 Sep 02 02:33:42 GMT
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From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032057223.362094@isc.org>
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From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 23 17:30:06 2003
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.consumers,misc.kids.computer
Subject: 2nd RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1043342156.41610@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
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Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:15:56 UTC
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Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11867 news.groups:425465 misc.kids:551043 misc.kids.consumers:6996 misc.kids.computer:20065
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
all affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
CHANGES from previous RFD:
Name changed from misc.kids.family to misc.kids.family-life.
The advisory board has been renamed the policy board.
Green-, yellow-, and red-light scheme used for user status.
Back-up moderators are indicated and are included in biannual
assessments.
Additional moderators have been added.
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization
of the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you
cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general
discussion and the removal of three topical groups that receive very
little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated, it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the
misc.kids hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly
moderated group, misc.kids.family-life, would serve posters who prefer
a happy medium between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and
the narrow topic specificity of misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts
to misc.kids.moderated must have parenting content for acceptance.
Follow-up posts are allowed some drift.) The limited traffic from
misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and misc.kids.vacation should
be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will also continue
on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new
misc.kids.family-life group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some
attempted to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often
found in misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by
dividing the hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids
was lower in the late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This
problem has been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general
topic traffic from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to
return and revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the
1990's, topic space specific pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have
established flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health have also established loyal
poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to
define and divide among users. Topic space dedicated to computers,
consumers, and vacations have not drawn on-topic traffic away from
general groups over time. From a poll taken in May of 2002, some
topics are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to
users, and community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through
death. To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every
parent. Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through
the transitions they experience while participating in groups
discussing the entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate"
into the next group away from those that they have found reliable
sources of help and support. Others remain in multiple groups along
the life span in order to share insight with other newer posters on
topic. Incompatible discussions arise in light of more contentious or
sensitive topics like breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility
problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When
posting style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and
only misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get open discussion without debate.
Opening those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of
discussion to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is
most comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter
out trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space or are
willing to overlook noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters
seeking lower traffic levels that have a high signal-to-noise ratio
created by parenting content rules (misc.kids.moderated is moderated
such that initial posts require direct parenting content although some
follow-up drift is permitted). A proportion of users would prefer a
middle ground for general discussion where moderation would remove
spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would maintain a tone of
civility where content is self-regulated allowing a greater sense of
community. By providing a range of general discussion groups, users
graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding have a
range of options to choose where to take their posts and know that
they will find the community style that they are looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An
average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently
carries 78% of this traffic. Off-topic posts (general parenting
discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since
the more recent move campaign from around 1100 posts per month off
topic to around 500 (a 50% drop). Misc.kids.moderated constitutes
less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the hierarchy.
General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which averages
approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day since
1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has discussed
moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a part of
this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the survey
discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved
signal-to-noise ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic
levels are a problem for some. Most posters use more than one
misc.kids group. Many of those subscribing to multiple groups in the
hierarchy are dissatisfied with the low traffic and parenting content
restrictions in misc.kids.moderated. Many posters who subscribe only
to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low traffic, high signal to noise
ratio, and topic specificity. Many respondents would consider using a
new moderated group. The survey received 43 responses both privately
emailed and posted to misc.kids and alt.mothers. The survey was
posted to all groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in
misc.kids.info) and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting
solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either
misc.kids or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the
hierarchy by spreading the traffic out into manageable communities
that hang together comfortably in the same topic space. The name
incorporates the specific community style and adds an easily
searchable term for new users to find on USENET. A poll taken in late
September indicated that most users generally approved of the name
choice and preferred that the moderated tag be left off. We expect to
generate traffic from new users not currently posting in any misc.kids
groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a wider audience than
that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not happy with
current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former misc.kids
hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in
comupter software, better technical support and improved search
engines have decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic.
Traffic has dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of
a one week period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) there were fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3
respectively according to the google search engine). Subject lines in
the 2002 sampling read "Current issues in computer used by young
children" and "Babykeys." While both are completely on topic, neither
poster received responses. In the March of 2002, a search showed
about 20 posts containing the words computer or software (not in the
signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated).
Those discussions related to use of the computer as a privilege,
college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for gifted
children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family-life.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general
parenting discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic
space flows naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users
are willing to deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated
and misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in
1998. In a sampling taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98,
5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02)
traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3
respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two advertisements and
one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27
total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product thread appeared in
misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those 43 were
crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted
in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid
confusion and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only
2 of 22 posts in a particular thread were crossposted into
misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During
the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of 9 posts only 1 post was actually an
on-topic discussion with 4 advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In
June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation, travel or trips
in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject "Flying with a 15
month old" received 18 responses. As vacation discussions remain in
misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.vacation should be
removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
relatively civil forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics
of interest for them in their role as parents. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of
civility. Moderation will not be applied to content.
Posting Standards
On-charter discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents
in their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to
mention children, they should have some relevance to family life or
childrearing or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a
parent. No content restrictions will be applied by moderation, but
posters are encouraged to stay on-charter. Extended topic drift is
discouraged. From time to time, topics may drift into discussions
that are of no interest or relevance to many parents in their role as
parents. Users may encourage ending such discussions.
Essentially any post would be inappropriate that violates a basic tone
of civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously
attack other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts
promoting or defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse; spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts
(examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks, posts that show gross
intolerance or viciously attack any other poster); trolls (ingenuine
attempts to provoke users from people outside the community); and
posts in response to extended discussions of contentious topics that
have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, the posting of personal information about other users
without their expressed permission is discouraged and may result in
post rejection or handmoderation of posts in cases where malice is
apparent. This information may include, but is not limited to names
and ages of children, birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of
individual users.
Posting Procedure
Posts from new users will be hand moderated. A copy of the charter
will be sent to the reply-to address provided following their first
post. Posters are encouraged to use a consistent ID in order to
establish a pattern of civil posting and be greenlisted. The
robomoderation software does allow posters to privately register their
email address so that a munged email address can be used in posting.
User Status: Green/Yellow/Red
New users with an unrecognized email address will be initially on
yellow (or caution) light status--meaning that any post from a user
with an unrecognized email address will be handmoderated for
compliance with the charter. If their first post is accepted, the
user will have green light (or "go") status--meaning that their next
post will not be moderated. Posters who have repeatedly violated the
civility guidelines will have red light (or "stop") status--meaning
that their posts will be handmoderated. In the event that a first
post is considered borderline or in violation of the charter, the
moderators reserve the right to keep posters on yellow light status
until a pattern of charter compliant posting is established. Those
who are on red or yellow light status are welcome to request a review
and vote of their status after one month of handmoderation.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not
allowed. Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the
misc.kids hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or
community discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to
discussions (example: topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting
to a pet group would be appropriate.) Exceptions will also be made
for posts that are crossposted to news.announce.newgroups and
news.groups. Articles posted to more than three groups will be
rejected as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in
the moderation policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of
misc.kids.family-life. If changes are needed, concerns should be
brought to the attention of the group through a post to the community
tagged [MOD]. A solution will be presented and a vote administered by
the policy board. A minimum of 25 active posters and a 75% majority
will be required to approve any solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility (as
defined in the charter). Posts identified as spam or trolls will be
predominantly rejected through the use of robomoderation software.
Civility will be monitored by human moderators only in situations
where posters repeatedly (more than three times in one month) post in
a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the civility guidelines of
the charter) or when contentious topics run their course (fewer than 5
people are participating in a particular topic or when the same
arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active policy
board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures and similar small binaries will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more
than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per
line is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter).
3. review all posts from unrecognized users to verify adherence to
charter.
4. review all posts from users who have violated the civility
guidelines in at least three posts in the previous month or have
posted spam or a troll or a post promoting or defending pedophilia or
any form of child endangerment or abuse, as defined in the civility
guidelines in the past month, establishing these posters as having red
light status. Warnings will be sent to users following the first and
second violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who have red light status will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility
guidelines that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
5 people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some
obviously uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will
not be made available in the summary.
Moderators
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve at all times.
A moderator mailing list will be maintained for all moderator
discussions and to complete all moderator functions. This mailing
list will be made available to the policy board and back-up
moderators. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Policy Board
The policy board will be composed of Senior moderators and creation
team members. Two or three board members will serve as back-up
moderators (and be subject to assessment if they have served)
annually. Any back-up moderator who receives two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 75% approval rate by users) will be removed
from the policy board. Back-up moderators may serve no more than two
consecutive terms. The policy board will administer annual moderator
elections, administer biannual moderator assessments by polling the
group, and provide technical assistance in applying the charter for
moderators. A mailing list will be maintained for policy board
discussions and to complete policy board functions. Board members will
elect back-up moderators annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of
candidacy followed by 14 days of voting). Members may leave the policy
board, but must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
The policy board will announce moderator openings and administer
annual elections. All posts relating to the election process will be
tagged [ELECTION]. Moderators will be elected to serve a two year
term but may resign at the end of one year. Moderators who complete a
two year term may be reelected for one additional consecutive term or
retire to the policy board. Moderator candidates can be nominated or
volunteer during the "period of candidacy". A short description will
be posted of each candidate's interests and qualifications will be
posted at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting period"
will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active, identifiable users (participants who
have posted a minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period from a
replyable or registered identification are considered active) may vote
for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed
as moderators. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators elected in
a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators and back-up moderators who have served will be given an
assessment every six months, administered by the policy board using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive
poor assessments (less than 75% approval rate) will not be eligible
for reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the
policy board if a 3/4 majority of voting posters deem it necessary.
If a moderator is removed, a back-up moderator will serve the
remainder of that moderator's term.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning
(fewer than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and
the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will
revert to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation
team can be established under the guidelines of the charter and
moderation policy. In the event that the group reverts to
robomoderation software only, group users will be required to register
their email address in order to post to the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is
encouraged to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also
encouraged to alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the
civility guidelines listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <aula@cfl.rr.com> came to USENET relatively
recently after her husband caught her responding to a post on one of
his mailing lists and introduced her to USENET in 1997. Aula quickly
found alt.mothers, which she continues to regard as her "home" group,
although she is active in several other groups including misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated, rec.crafts and
alt.support.child-protective-services. Until recently Aula posted the
alt.parenting.solutions FAQ at least monthly. Aula was one of the
leaders in the recent reactivation of misc.kids. Married later than
many, Aula and her husband have one wonderful child, DS, who just
turned 7. Aula works days, while her husband works evenings, and both
share in the homeschooling of DS, currently in first grade [late
birthday]. Although Aula enjoys her work in children's mental health
she hopes to retire as soon as she hits the Lotto [estimated to be in
about 2092] and spend much more time with her family and working on
the many crafts she enjoys and snarfing down tim tams straight from
downunder!
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on
USENET since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids
hierarchy since 1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a
mailing list. She holds a B.S degree in Chemistry and was formerly
employed as an agricultural chemist. She and her husband were married
at a very young age and put off having children until their late
twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount of time doing
marketting communication and lives on the left coast. She has three
children under the age of four.
Moderator: Chris Ish < c_ish@mindspring.com > is father to Eva, age
2, and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who
cares for both adults and children. He has been participating in
newsgroups since 1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids,
misc.kids.health, and several other USENET groups.
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca> is a longtime USENET reader,
poster, moderator and admin, currently changing the diapers of his new
daughter. He currently moderates over a dozen newsgroups ranging in
topic from Computer Science technical reports, to Japanese animation
fan fiction, to music reviews, to keeping ferrets as pets.
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com> is a
reformed Data Systems Analyst, who now spends most of her time
teaching young children (not necessarily her own). She has been on
USENET since 1996. She has moderated several groups, particularly
support groups which involve infertility and/or medical issues. She
has been married for 3 years, and has a 17 month old child and a 4
month old child.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since
1997. She is an American, but currently lives in Australia. She has
been active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since
2000. She remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well
as actively posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated
and majored in Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include
music, writing and comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM,
as well as continuing her quest to learn more about our connection
with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net> is a former pediatrician
who has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he
has no children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in
New York City as well as a soccer program in the suburbs where he
lives & is a proud uncle. He is a Mad Scientist (www.madscientist.org)
and posts to several newsgroups. In his spare time, he takes computer
courses in the School of Continuing and Professional studies at NYU.
Policy board:
Policy board member: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a
20-something crunchy attachment parent. She has been a USENET user
since 1996, and has posted to misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding
since the birth of her firstborn son in 2001. Her turn-ons include
her husband, literature, and history. In fact, she has her B.A. in
two out of the three! She is currently busy at home raising her son
and continuing her lifelong quest for omniscience.
Policy board member and back-up moderator: Noreen Cooper
<ncooper@wahoo.sjsu.edu> is an older mom who has traveled for the past
seven years with her DH Bill on that wild roller-coaster ride called
Parenting. Noreen has experience parenting a child with special
needs--her son was born with a mild neurological disorder--and has way
too much expertise in dealing with sleep problems in infants and
toddlers. Noreen started reading misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has
since participated in all the misc.kids groups, including a five-year
stint as a creation team member and advisor for misc.kids.moderated.
She is currently active in many volunteer projects, including the
formation of this new group and moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen
has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in Library and Information Science,
specializing in medical librarianship, and plans to go back to work
sometime in the next few years.
Policy board member: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a
computer software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting
to misc.kids since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom was
sixteen in December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner
of 8 years lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the
Freedom Trail Band, Boston's GLBT marching band.
Policy board member: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been
posting to Usenet since 1995, and is a contributor to
misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly
a technical support and systems administration person at
Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider, Hillary is now
practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time, while also
enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler son.
She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary and
her husband expect their second child this fall.
Policy board member and back-up moderator: Heather W.
<ickyspam@lycos.com> is a married New England mom of Rowan (born
November 1997), who planned her husband's immigration, their wedding,
her pregnancy, her choice of pets, and her parenting with the
assistance of various newsgroups. Each endeavor has turned out
reasonably well. ;) Heather currently is a moderator for the most
active Surrogate Motherhood message board online, where dealing with
hormonal women on fertility meds on a regular basis has prepared her
for most anything she'd encounter (she has also moderated two email
lists [dog breed specific list, and a surrogacy email list], and an
Internet talker [text-chat environment of the old days]). Heather is
also overly fond of parenthetical notations, but tries her hardest to
close them all properly.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
ORIGINAL RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
The volume on misc.kids is getting very high, with around 200 messages
a day. Splitting off a few topics which could sustain their own
groups could make the volume on misc.kids more manageable.
misc.kids.consumers covers a sufficiently clearcut topic that it can
readily form its own group, and it represents about 9% of the traffic
on misc.kids. (The traffic estimates in this CFV are based on two
analyses of misc.kids traffic from April 16 to May 2.)
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group
will be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning
a family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those
that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People
could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get
passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already
find going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper
on an airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the
woods, it will open up the doors of communication for those who have
'alternative' ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial
vacations like Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and
explorative nature,like camping, hiking, or what-have-you.
Misc.kids.vacation will offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming
between those who have actually been there <grin>. It will offer a
special place for those who would like to do 'something different'
together. Remember, before there was Disneyland, there were
families and those families took vacations <grin>. Misc.kids.vacation
would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings
in the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people
with many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions
which go on in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the
net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal
to noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand.
Misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups, news.groups, misc.kids, misc.kids.consumers,
misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.health, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
Alt.mothers
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <aula@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Technical Moderator: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 23 17:45:02 2003
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Subject: 2nd RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1043343158.41671@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:32:38 UTC
Lines: 687
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11868 news.groups:425466 misc.kids.pregnancy:612951 misc.kids.health:109083 misc.kids.breastfeeding:195351
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
all affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
CHANGES from previous RFD:
Name changed from misc.kids.family to misc.kids.family-life.
The advisory board has been renamed the policy board.
Green-, yellow-, and red-light scheme used for user status.
Back-up moderators are indicated and are included in biannual
assessments.
Additional moderators have been added.
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization
of the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you
cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general
discussion and the removal of three topical groups that receive very
little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated, it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the
misc.kids hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly
moderated group, misc.kids.family-life, would serve posters who prefer
a happy medium between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and
the narrow topic specificity of misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts
to misc.kids.moderated must have parenting content for acceptance.
Follow-up posts are allowed some drift.) The limited traffic from
misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and misc.kids.vacation should
be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will also continue
on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new
misc.kids.family-life group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some
attempted to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often
found in misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by
dividing the hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids
was lower in the late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This
problem has been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general
topic traffic from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to
return and revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the
1990's, topic space specific pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have
established flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health have also established loyal
poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to
define and divide among users. Topic space dedicated to computers,
consumers, and vacations have not drawn on-topic traffic away from
general groups over time. From a poll taken in May of 2002, some
topics are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to
users, and community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through
death. To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every
parent. Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through
the transitions they experience while participating in groups
discussing the entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate"
into the next group away from those that they have found reliable
sources of help and support. Others remain in multiple groups along
the life span in order to share insight with other newer posters on
topic. Incompatible discussions arise in light of more contentious or
sensitive topics like breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility
problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When
posting style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and
only misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get open discussion without debate.
Opening those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of
discussion to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is
most comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter
out trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space or are
willing to overlook noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters
seeking lower traffic levels that have a high signal-to-noise ratio
created by parenting content rules (misc.kids.moderated is moderated
such that initial posts require direct parenting content although some
follow-up drift is permitted). A proportion of users would prefer a
middle ground for general discussion where moderation would remove
spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would maintain a tone of
civility where content is self-regulated allowing a greater sense of
community. By providing a range of general discussion groups, users
graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding have a
range of options to choose where to take their posts and know that
they will find the community style that they are looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An
average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently
carries 78% of this traffic. Off-topic posts (general parenting
discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since
the more recent move campaign from around 1100 posts per month off
topic to around 500 (a 50% drop). Misc.kids.moderated constitutes
less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the hierarchy.
General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which averages
approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day since
1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has discussed
moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a part of
this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the survey
discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved
signal-to-noise ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic
levels are a problem for some. Most posters use more than one
misc.kids group. Many of those subscribing to multiple groups in the
hierarchy are dissatisfied with the low traffic and parenting content
restrictions in misc.kids.moderated. Many posters who subscribe only
to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low traffic, high signal to noise
ratio, and topic specificity. Many respondents would consider using a
new moderated group. The survey received 43 responses both privately
emailed and posted to misc.kids and alt.mothers. The survey was
posted to all groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in
misc.kids.info) and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting
solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either
misc.kids or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the
hierarchy by spreading the traffic out into manageable communities
that hang together comfortably in the same topic space. The name
incorporates the specific community style and adds an easily
searchable term for new users to find on USENET. A poll taken in late
September indicated that most users generally approved of the name
choice and preferred that the moderated tag be left off. We expect to
generate traffic from new users not currently posting in any misc.kids
groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a wider audience than
that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not happy with
current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former misc.kids
hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in
comupter software, better technical support and improved search
engines have decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic.
Traffic has dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of
a one week period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) there were fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3
respectively according to the google search engine). Subject lines in
the 2002 sampling read "Current issues in computer used by young
children" and "Babykeys." While both are completely on topic, neither
poster received responses. In the March of 2002, a search showed
about 20 posts containing the words computer or software (not in the
signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated).
Those discussions related to use of the computer as a privilege,
college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for gifted
children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family-life.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general
parenting discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic
space flows naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users
are willing to deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated
and misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in
1998. In a sampling taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98,
5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02)
traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3
respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two advertisements and
one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27
total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product thread appeared in
misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those 43 were
crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted
in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid
confusion and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only
2 of 22 posts in a particular thread were crossposted into
misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During
the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of 9 posts only 1 post was actually an
on-topic discussion with 4 advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In
June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation, travel or trips
in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject "Flying with a 15
month old" received 18 responses. As vacation discussions remain in
misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.vacation should be
removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
relatively civil forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics
of interest for them in their role as parents. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of
civility. Moderation will not be applied to content.
Posting Standards
On-charter discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents
in their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to
mention children, they should have some relevance to family life or
childrearing or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a
parent. No content restrictions will be applied by moderation, but
posters are encouraged to stay on-charter. Extended topic drift is
discouraged. From time to time, topics may drift into discussions
that are of no interest or relevance to many parents in their role as
parents. Users may encourage ending such discussions.
Essentially any post would be inappropriate that violates a basic tone
of civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously
attack other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts
promoting or defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse; spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts
(examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks, posts that show gross
intolerance or viciously attack any other poster); trolls (ingenuine
attempts to provoke users from people outside the community); and
posts in response to extended discussions of contentious topics that
have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, the posting of personal information about other users
without their expressed permission is discouraged and may result in
post rejection or handmoderation of posts in cases where malice is
apparent. This information may include, but is not limited to names
and ages of children, birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of
individual users.
Posting Procedure
Posts from new users will be hand moderated. A copy of the charter
will be sent to the reply-to address provided following their first
post. Posters are encouraged to use a consistent ID in order to
establish a pattern of civil posting and be greenlisted. The
robomoderation software does allow posters to privately register their
email address so that a munged email address can be used in posting.
User Status: Green/Yellow/Red
New users with an unrecognized email address will be initially on
yellow (or caution) light status--meaning that any post from a user
with an unrecognized email address will be handmoderated for
compliance with the charter. If their first post is accepted, the
user will have green light (or "go") status--meaning that their next
post will not be moderated. Posters who have repeatedly violated the
civility guidelines will have red light (or "stop") status--meaning
that their posts will be handmoderated. In the event that a first
post is considered borderline or in violation of the charter, the
moderators reserve the right to keep posters on yellow light status
until a pattern of charter compliant posting is established. Those
who are on red or yellow light status are welcome to request a review
and vote of their status after one month of handmoderation.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not
allowed. Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the
misc.kids hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or
community discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to
discussions (example: topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting
to a pet group would be appropriate.) Exceptions will also be made
for posts that are crossposted to news.announce.newgroups and
news.groups. Articles posted to more than three groups will be
rejected as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in
the moderation policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of
misc.kids.family-life. If changes are needed, concerns should be
brought to the attention of the group through a post to the community
tagged [MOD]. A solution will be presented and a vote administered by
the policy board. A minimum of 25 active posters and a 75% majority
will be required to approve any solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility (as
defined in the charter). Posts identified as spam or trolls will be
predominantly rejected through the use of robomoderation software.
Civility will be monitored by human moderators only in situations
where posters repeatedly (more than three times in one month) post in
a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the civility guidelines of
the charter) or when contentious topics run their course (fewer than 5
people are participating in a particular topic or when the same
arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active policy
board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures and similar small binaries will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more
than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per
line is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter).
3. review all posts from unrecognized users to verify adherence to
charter.
4. review all posts from users who have violated the civility
guidelines in at least three posts in the previous month or have
posted spam or a troll or a post promoting or defending pedophilia or
any form of child endangerment or abuse, as defined in the civility
guidelines in the past month, establishing these posters as having red
light status. Warnings will be sent to users following the first and
second violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who have red light status will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility
guidelines that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
5 people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some
obviously uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will
not be made available in the summary.
Moderators
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve at all times.
A moderator mailing list will be maintained for all moderator
discussions and to complete all moderator functions. This mailing
list will be made available to the policy board and back-up
moderators. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Policy Board
The policy board will be composed of Senior moderators and creation
team members. Two or three board members will serve as back-up
moderators (and be subject to assessment if they have served)
annually. Any back-up moderator who receives two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 75% approval rate by users) will be removed
from the policy board. Back-up moderators may serve no more than two
consecutive terms. The policy board will administer annual moderator
elections, administer biannual moderator assessments by polling the
group, and provide technical assistance in applying the charter for
moderators. A mailing list will be maintained for policy board
discussions and to complete policy board functions. Board members will
elect back-up moderators annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of
candidacy followed by 14 days of voting). Members may leave the policy
board, but must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
The policy board will announce moderator openings and administer
annual elections. All posts relating to the election process will be
tagged [ELECTION]. Moderators will be elected to serve a two year
term but may resign at the end of one year. Moderators who complete a
two year term may be reelected for one additional consecutive term or
retire to the policy board. Moderator candidates can be nominated or
volunteer during the "period of candidacy". A short description will
be posted of each candidate's interests and qualifications will be
posted at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting period"
will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active, identifiable users (participants who
have posted a minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period from a
replyable or registered identification are considered active) may vote
for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed
as moderators. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators elected in
a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators and back-up moderators who have served will be given an
assessment every six months, administered by the policy board using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive
poor assessments (less than 75% approval rate) will not be eligible
for reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the
policy board if a 3/4 majority of voting posters deem it necessary.
If a moderator is removed, a back-up moderator will serve the
remainder of that moderator's term.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning
(fewer than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and
the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will
revert to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation
team can be established under the guidelines of the charter and
moderation policy. In the event that the group reverts to
robomoderation software only, group users will be required to register
their email address in order to post to the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is
encouraged to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also
encouraged to alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the
civility guidelines listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <aula@cfl.rr.com> came to USENET relatively
recently after her husband caught her responding to a post on one of
his mailing lists and introduced her to USENET in 1997. Aula quickly
found alt.mothers, which she continues to regard as her "home" group,
although she is active in several other groups including misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated, rec.crafts and
alt.support.child-protective-services. Until recently Aula posted the
alt.parenting.solutions FAQ at least monthly. Aula was one of the
leaders in the recent reactivation of misc.kids. Married later than
many, Aula and her husband have one wonderful child, DS, who just
turned 7. Aula works days, while her husband works evenings, and both
share in the homeschooling of DS, currently in first grade [late
birthday]. Although Aula enjoys her work in children's mental health
she hopes to retire as soon as she hits the Lotto [estimated to be in
about 2092] and spend much more time with her family and working on
the many crafts she enjoys and snarfing down tim tams straight from
downunder!
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on
USENET since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids
hierarchy since 1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a
mailing list. She holds a B.S degree in Chemistry and was formerly
employed as an agricultural chemist. She and her husband were married
at a very young age and put off having children until their late
twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount of time doing
marketting communication and lives on the left coast. She has three
children under the age of four.
Moderator: Chris Ish < c_ish@mindspring.com > is father to Eva, age
2, and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who
cares for both adults and children. He has been participating in
newsgroups since 1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids,
misc.kids.health, and several other USENET groups.
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca> is a longtime USENET reader,
poster, moderator and admin, currently changing the diapers of his new
daughter. He currently moderates over a dozen newsgroups ranging in
topic from Computer Science technical reports, to Japanese animation
fan fiction, to music reviews, to keeping ferrets as pets.
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com> is a
reformed Data Systems Analyst, who now spends most of her time
teaching young children (not necessarily her own). She has been on
USENET since 1996. She has moderated several groups, particularly
support groups which involve infertility and/or medical issues. She
has been married for 3 years, and has a 17 month old child and a 4
month old child.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since
1997. She is an American, but currently lives in Australia. She has
been active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since
2000. She remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well
as actively posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated
and majored in Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include
music, writing and comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM,
as well as continuing her quest to learn more about our connection
with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net> is a former pediatrician
who has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he
has no children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in
New York City as well as a soccer program in the suburbs where he
lives & is a proud uncle. He is a Mad Scientist (www.madscientist.org)
and posts to several newsgroups. In his spare time, he takes computer
courses in the School of Continuing and Professional studies at NYU.
Policy board:
Policy board member: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a
20-something crunchy attachment parent. She has been a USENET user
since 1996, and has posted to misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding
since the birth of her firstborn son in 2001. Her turn-ons include
her husband, literature, and history. In fact, she has her B.A. in
two out of the three! She is currently busy at home raising her son
and continuing her lifelong quest for omniscience.
Policy board member and back-up moderator: Noreen Cooper
<ncooper@wahoo.sjsu.edu> is an older mom who has traveled for the past
seven years with her DH Bill on that wild roller-coaster ride called
Parenting. Noreen has experience parenting a child with special
needs--her son was born with a mild neurological disorder--and has way
too much expertise in dealing with sleep problems in infants and
toddlers. Noreen started reading misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has
since participated in all the misc.kids groups, including a five-year
stint as a creation team member and advisor for misc.kids.moderated.
She is currently active in many volunteer projects, including the
formation of this new group and moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen
has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in Library and Information Science,
specializing in medical librarianship, and plans to go back to work
sometime in the next few years.
Policy board member: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a
computer software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting
to misc.kids since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom was
sixteen in December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner
of 8 years lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the
Freedom Trail Band, Boston's GLBT marching band.
Policy board member: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been
posting to Usenet since 1995, and is a contributor to
misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly
a technical support and systems administration person at
Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider, Hillary is now
practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time, while also
enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler son.
She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary and
her husband expect their second child this fall.
Policy board member and back-up moderator: Heather W.
<ickyspam@lycos.com> is a married New England mom of Rowan (born
November 1997), who planned her husband's immigration, their wedding,
her pregnancy, her choice of pets, and her parenting with the
assistance of various newsgroups. Each endeavor has turned out
reasonably well. ;) Heather currently is a moderator for the most
active Surrogate Motherhood message board online, where dealing with
hormonal women on fertility meds on a regular basis has prepared her
for most anything she'd encounter (she has also moderated two email
lists [dog breed specific list, and a surrogacy email list], and an
Internet talker [text-chat environment of the old days]). Heather is
also overly fond of parenthetical notations, but tries her hardest to
close them all properly.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
ORIGINAL RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
The volume on misc.kids is getting very high, with around 200 messages
a day. Splitting off a few topics which could sustain their own
groups could make the volume on misc.kids more manageable.
misc.kids.consumers covers a sufficiently clearcut topic that it can
readily form its own group, and it represents about 9% of the traffic
on misc.kids. (The traffic estimates in this CFV are based on two
analyses of misc.kids traffic from April 16 to May 2.)
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group
will be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning
a family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those
that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People
could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get
passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already
find going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper
on an airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the
woods, it will open up the doors of communication for those who have
'alternative' ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial
vacations like Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and
explorative nature,like camping, hiking, or what-have-you.
Misc.kids.vacation will offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming
between those who have actually been there <grin>. It will offer a
special place for those who would like to do 'something different'
together. Remember, before there was Disneyland, there were
families and those families took vacations <grin>. Misc.kids.vacation
would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings
in the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people
with many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions
which go on in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the
net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal
to noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand.
Misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups, news.groups, misc.kids, misc.kids.consumers,
misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.health, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
Alt.mothers
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <aula@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Technical Moderator: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 23 17:45:24 2003
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.vacation
Subject: 2nd RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1043343274.41685@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:34:34 UTC
Lines: 687
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11869 news.groups:425467 misc.kids.vacation:10982
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
all affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
CHANGES from previous RFD:
Name changed from misc.kids.family to misc.kids.family-life.
The advisory board has been renamed the policy board.
Green-, yellow-, and red-light scheme used for user status.
Back-up moderators are indicated and are included in biannual
assessments.
Additional moderators have been added.
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization
of the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you
cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general
discussion and the removal of three topical groups that receive very
little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated, it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the
misc.kids hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly
moderated group, misc.kids.family-life, would serve posters who prefer
a happy medium between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and
the narrow topic specificity of misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts
to misc.kids.moderated must have parenting content for acceptance.
Follow-up posts are allowed some drift.) The limited traffic from
misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and misc.kids.vacation should
be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will also continue
on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new
misc.kids.family-life group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some
attempted to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often
found in misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by
dividing the hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids
was lower in the late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This
problem has been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general
topic traffic from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to
return and revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the
1990's, topic space specific pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have
established flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health have also established loyal
poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to
define and divide among users. Topic space dedicated to computers,
consumers, and vacations have not drawn on-topic traffic away from
general groups over time. From a poll taken in May of 2002, some
topics are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to
users, and community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through
death. To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every
parent. Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through
the transitions they experience while participating in groups
discussing the entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate"
into the next group away from those that they have found reliable
sources of help and support. Others remain in multiple groups along
the life span in order to share insight with other newer posters on
topic. Incompatible discussions arise in light of more contentious or
sensitive topics like breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility
problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When
posting style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and
only misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get open discussion without debate.
Opening those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of
discussion to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is
most comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter
out trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space or are
willing to overlook noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters
seeking lower traffic levels that have a high signal-to-noise ratio
created by parenting content rules (misc.kids.moderated is moderated
such that initial posts require direct parenting content although some
follow-up drift is permitted). A proportion of users would prefer a
middle ground for general discussion where moderation would remove
spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would maintain a tone of
civility where content is self-regulated allowing a greater sense of
community. By providing a range of general discussion groups, users
graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding have a
range of options to choose where to take their posts and know that
they will find the community style that they are looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An
average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently
carries 78% of this traffic. Off-topic posts (general parenting
discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since
the more recent move campaign from around 1100 posts per month off
topic to around 500 (a 50% drop). Misc.kids.moderated constitutes
less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the hierarchy.
General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which averages
approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day since
1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has discussed
moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a part of
this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the survey
discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved
signal-to-noise ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic
levels are a problem for some. Most posters use more than one
misc.kids group. Many of those subscribing to multiple groups in the
hierarchy are dissatisfied with the low traffic and parenting content
restrictions in misc.kids.moderated. Many posters who subscribe only
to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low traffic, high signal to noise
ratio, and topic specificity. Many respondents would consider using a
new moderated group. The survey received 43 responses both privately
emailed and posted to misc.kids and alt.mothers. The survey was
posted to all groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in
misc.kids.info) and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting
solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either
misc.kids or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the
hierarchy by spreading the traffic out into manageable communities
that hang together comfortably in the same topic space. The name
incorporates the specific community style and adds an easily
searchable term for new users to find on USENET. A poll taken in late
September indicated that most users generally approved of the name
choice and preferred that the moderated tag be left off. We expect to
generate traffic from new users not currently posting in any misc.kids
groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a wider audience than
that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not happy with
current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former misc.kids
hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in
comupter software, better technical support and improved search
engines have decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic.
Traffic has dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of
a one week period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) there were fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3
respectively according to the google search engine). Subject lines in
the 2002 sampling read "Current issues in computer used by young
children" and "Babykeys." While both are completely on topic, neither
poster received responses. In the March of 2002, a search showed
about 20 posts containing the words computer or software (not in the
signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated).
Those discussions related to use of the computer as a privilege,
college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for gifted
children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family-life.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general
parenting discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic
space flows naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users
are willing to deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated
and misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in
1998. In a sampling taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98,
5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02)
traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3
respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two advertisements and
one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27
total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product thread appeared in
misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those 43 were
crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted
in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid
confusion and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only
2 of 22 posts in a particular thread were crossposted into
misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During
the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of 9 posts only 1 post was actually an
on-topic discussion with 4 advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In
June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation, travel or trips
in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject "Flying with a 15
month old" received 18 responses. As vacation discussions remain in
misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.vacation should be
removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
relatively civil forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics
of interest for them in their role as parents. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of
civility. Moderation will not be applied to content.
Posting Standards
On-charter discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents
in their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to
mention children, they should have some relevance to family life or
childrearing or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a
parent. No content restrictions will be applied by moderation, but
posters are encouraged to stay on-charter. Extended topic drift is
discouraged. From time to time, topics may drift into discussions
that are of no interest or relevance to many parents in their role as
parents. Users may encourage ending such discussions.
Essentially any post would be inappropriate that violates a basic tone
of civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously
attack other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts
promoting or defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse; spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts
(examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks, posts that show gross
intolerance or viciously attack any other poster); trolls (ingenuine
attempts to provoke users from people outside the community); and
posts in response to extended discussions of contentious topics that
have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, the posting of personal information about other users
without their expressed permission is discouraged and may result in
post rejection or handmoderation of posts in cases where malice is
apparent. This information may include, but is not limited to names
and ages of children, birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of
individual users.
Posting Procedure
Posts from new users will be hand moderated. A copy of the charter
will be sent to the reply-to address provided following their first
post. Posters are encouraged to use a consistent ID in order to
establish a pattern of civil posting and be greenlisted. The
robomoderation software does allow posters to privately register their
email address so that a munged email address can be used in posting.
User Status: Green/Yellow/Red
New users with an unrecognized email address will be initially on
yellow (or caution) light status--meaning that any post from a user
with an unrecognized email address will be handmoderated for
compliance with the charter. If their first post is accepted, the
user will have green light (or "go") status--meaning that their next
post will not be moderated. Posters who have repeatedly violated the
civility guidelines will have red light (or "stop") status--meaning
that their posts will be handmoderated. In the event that a first
post is considered borderline or in violation of the charter, the
moderators reserve the right to keep posters on yellow light status
until a pattern of charter compliant posting is established. Those
who are on red or yellow light status are welcome to request a review
and vote of their status after one month of handmoderation.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not
allowed. Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the
misc.kids hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or
community discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to
discussions (example: topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting
to a pet group would be appropriate.) Exceptions will also be made
for posts that are crossposted to news.announce.newgroups and
news.groups. Articles posted to more than three groups will be
rejected as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in
the moderation policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of
misc.kids.family-life. If changes are needed, concerns should be
brought to the attention of the group through a post to the community
tagged [MOD]. A solution will be presented and a vote administered by
the policy board. A minimum of 25 active posters and a 75% majority
will be required to approve any solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility (as
defined in the charter). Posts identified as spam or trolls will be
predominantly rejected through the use of robomoderation software.
Civility will be monitored by human moderators only in situations
where posters repeatedly (more than three times in one month) post in
a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the civility guidelines of
the charter) or when contentious topics run their course (fewer than 5
people are participating in a particular topic or when the same
arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active policy
board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures and similar small binaries will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more
than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per
line is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter).
3. review all posts from unrecognized users to verify adherence to
charter.
4. review all posts from users who have violated the civility
guidelines in at least three posts in the previous month or have
posted spam or a troll or a post promoting or defending pedophilia or
any form of child endangerment or abuse, as defined in the civility
guidelines in the past month, establishing these posters as having red
light status. Warnings will be sent to users following the first and
second violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who have red light status will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility
guidelines that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
5 people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some
obviously uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will
not be made available in the summary.
Moderators
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve at all times.
A moderator mailing list will be maintained for all moderator
discussions and to complete all moderator functions. This mailing
list will be made available to the policy board and back-up
moderators. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Policy Board
The policy board will be composed of Senior moderators and creation
team members. Two or three board members will serve as back-up
moderators (and be subject to assessment if they have served)
annually. Any back-up moderator who receives two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 75% approval rate by users) will be removed
from the policy board. Back-up moderators may serve no more than two
consecutive terms. The policy board will administer annual moderator
elections, administer biannual moderator assessments by polling the
group, and provide technical assistance in applying the charter for
moderators. A mailing list will be maintained for policy board
discussions and to complete policy board functions. Board members will
elect back-up moderators annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of
candidacy followed by 14 days of voting). Members may leave the policy
board, but must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
The policy board will announce moderator openings and administer
annual elections. All posts relating to the election process will be
tagged [ELECTION]. Moderators will be elected to serve a two year
term but may resign at the end of one year. Moderators who complete a
two year term may be reelected for one additional consecutive term or
retire to the policy board. Moderator candidates can be nominated or
volunteer during the "period of candidacy". A short description will
be posted of each candidate's interests and qualifications will be
posted at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting period"
will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active, identifiable users (participants who
have posted a minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period from a
replyable or registered identification are considered active) may vote
for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed
as moderators. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators elected in
a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators and back-up moderators who have served will be given an
assessment every six months, administered by the policy board using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive
poor assessments (less than 75% approval rate) will not be eligible
for reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the
policy board if a 3/4 majority of voting posters deem it necessary.
If a moderator is removed, a back-up moderator will serve the
remainder of that moderator's term.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning
(fewer than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and
the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will
revert to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation
team can be established under the guidelines of the charter and
moderation policy. In the event that the group reverts to
robomoderation software only, group users will be required to register
their email address in order to post to the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is
encouraged to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also
encouraged to alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the
civility guidelines listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <aula@cfl.rr.com> came to USENET relatively
recently after her husband caught her responding to a post on one of
his mailing lists and introduced her to USENET in 1997. Aula quickly
found alt.mothers, which she continues to regard as her "home" group,
although she is active in several other groups including misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated, rec.crafts and
alt.support.child-protective-services. Until recently Aula posted the
alt.parenting.solutions FAQ at least monthly. Aula was one of the
leaders in the recent reactivation of misc.kids. Married later than
many, Aula and her husband have one wonderful child, DS, who just
turned 7. Aula works days, while her husband works evenings, and both
share in the homeschooling of DS, currently in first grade [late
birthday]. Although Aula enjoys her work in children's mental health
she hopes to retire as soon as she hits the Lotto [estimated to be in
about 2092] and spend much more time with her family and working on
the many crafts she enjoys and snarfing down tim tams straight from
downunder!
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on
USENET since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids
hierarchy since 1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a
mailing list. She holds a B.S degree in Chemistry and was formerly
employed as an agricultural chemist. She and her husband were married
at a very young age and put off having children until their late
twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount of time doing
marketting communication and lives on the left coast. She has three
children under the age of four.
Moderator: Chris Ish < c_ish@mindspring.com > is father to Eva, age
2, and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who
cares for both adults and children. He has been participating in
newsgroups since 1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids,
misc.kids.health, and several other USENET groups.
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca> is a longtime USENET reader,
poster, moderator and admin, currently changing the diapers of his new
daughter. He currently moderates over a dozen newsgroups ranging in
topic from Computer Science technical reports, to Japanese animation
fan fiction, to music reviews, to keeping ferrets as pets.
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com> is a
reformed Data Systems Analyst, who now spends most of her time
teaching young children (not necessarily her own). She has been on
USENET since 1996. She has moderated several groups, particularly
support groups which involve infertility and/or medical issues. She
has been married for 3 years, and has a 17 month old child and a 4
month old child.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since
1997. She is an American, but currently lives in Australia. She has
been active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since
2000. She remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well
as actively posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated
and majored in Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include
music, writing and comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM,
as well as continuing her quest to learn more about our connection
with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net> is a former pediatrician
who has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he
has no children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in
New York City as well as a soccer program in the suburbs where he
lives & is a proud uncle. He is a Mad Scientist (www.madscientist.org)
and posts to several newsgroups. In his spare time, he takes computer
courses in the School of Continuing and Professional studies at NYU.
Policy board:
Policy board member: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a
20-something crunchy attachment parent. She has been a USENET user
since 1996, and has posted to misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding
since the birth of her firstborn son in 2001. Her turn-ons include
her husband, literature, and history. In fact, she has her B.A. in
two out of the three! She is currently busy at home raising her son
and continuing her lifelong quest for omniscience.
Policy board member and back-up moderator: Noreen Cooper
<ncooper@wahoo.sjsu.edu> is an older mom who has traveled for the past
seven years with her DH Bill on that wild roller-coaster ride called
Parenting. Noreen has experience parenting a child with special
needs--her son was born with a mild neurological disorder--and has way
too much expertise in dealing with sleep problems in infants and
toddlers. Noreen started reading misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has
since participated in all the misc.kids groups, including a five-year
stint as a creation team member and advisor for misc.kids.moderated.
She is currently active in many volunteer projects, including the
formation of this new group and moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen
has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in Library and Information Science,
specializing in medical librarianship, and plans to go back to work
sometime in the next few years.
Policy board member: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a
computer software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting
to misc.kids since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom was
sixteen in December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner
of 8 years lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the
Freedom Trail Band, Boston's GLBT marching band.
Policy board member: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been
posting to Usenet since 1995, and is a contributor to
misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly
a technical support and systems administration person at
Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider, Hillary is now
practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time, while also
enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler son.
She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary and
her husband expect their second child this fall.
Policy board member and back-up moderator: Heather W.
<ickyspam@lycos.com> is a married New England mom of Rowan (born
November 1997), who planned her husband's immigration, their wedding,
her pregnancy, her choice of pets, and her parenting with the
assistance of various newsgroups. Each endeavor has turned out
reasonably well. ;) Heather currently is a moderator for the most
active Surrogate Motherhood message board online, where dealing with
hormonal women on fertility meds on a regular basis has prepared her
for most anything she'd encounter (she has also moderated two email
lists [dog breed specific list, and a surrogacy email list], and an
Internet talker [text-chat environment of the old days]). Heather is
also overly fond of parenthetical notations, but tries her hardest to
close them all properly.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
ORIGINAL RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
The volume on misc.kids is getting very high, with around 200 messages
a day. Splitting off a few topics which could sustain their own
groups could make the volume on misc.kids more manageable.
misc.kids.consumers covers a sufficiently clearcut topic that it can
readily form its own group, and it represents about 9% of the traffic
on misc.kids. (The traffic estimates in this CFV are based on two
analyses of misc.kids traffic from April 16 to May 2.)
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group
will be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning
a family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those
that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People
could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get
passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already
find going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper
on an airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the
woods, it will open up the doors of communication for those who have
'alternative' ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial
vacations like Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and
explorative nature,like camping, hiking, or what-have-you.
Misc.kids.vacation will offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming
between those who have actually been there <grin>. It will offer a
special place for those who would like to do 'something different'
together. Remember, before there was Disneyland, there were
families and those families took vacations <grin>. Misc.kids.vacation
would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings
in the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people
with many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions
which go on in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the
net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal
to noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand.
Misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups, news.groups, misc.kids, misc.kids.consumers,
misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.health, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
Alt.mothers
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <aula@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Technical Moderator: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 13 23:29:35 2003
From: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 3rd RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.vacation
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Followup-To: news.groups
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:29:31 -0800
Message-ID: <1047598171.31900@isc.org>
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
Lines: 670
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11888 news.groups:427611 misc.kids:561611 misc.kids.pregnancy:621271 misc.kids.vacation:11017
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
CHANGES from previous RFD:
One moderator/proponent removed, one policy board member removed,
three moderators added. Assessment format changed.
Petition to REMOVE misc.kids.computer withdrawn.
Minimum and maximum number of active moderators needed raised
Back-up moderators removed
Emergency election provision added.
Vote of no confidence provision added.
Moderation report posted weekly and expanded to include a record of
all posts and votes.
Revisions made to policy assessments, term limits for moderators,
elections, and qualifications for candidacy and voting privileges.
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization
of the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you
cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life lightly moderated general parenting community. (moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general
discussion and the removal of two topical groups that receive very
little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic specificity of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation
will be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these
topics in misc.kids.moderated and be present in the
misc.kids.famiy-life. Some traffic on these topics, particularly
consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower
in the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem
has been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic
traffic from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return
and revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's,
topical groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have
established flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also
established a loyal contingent of posters for general parenting
discussions. Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and
divide among users. Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations
has not drawn on-topic traffic away from general groups. A poll taken
in May, 2002, indicated that many topics are inseparable and others
are incompatible for reasons particular to the users and the community
style. It was also found in that study that community style is
paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in
groups with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate"
into the next group away from known sources of help and support. Some
remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic
discussions occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive
topics like breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or
homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate.
Opening those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of
discussion to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is
most comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter
out trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't
mind flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to
overlook noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower
traffic levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made
possible by requiring parenting content in initial posts.
Misc.kids.family-life represents users who would prefer a middle
ground for general discussion where topic is self-regulated.
Moderation would reject spam and blatantly malicious trolls, and
maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently
carries 78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from
around 1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500.
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting
traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than
820 posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com).
Alt.mothers has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did
not wish to be a part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents
3 responses in the survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved
signal-to-noise ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is
still a problem. More than half of the respondents use more than one
misc.kids.* group. More than half of those subscribing to multiple
groups were dissatisfied with the low traffic and parenting content
restrictions in misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the
respondents would consider using a new lightly moderated group. The
survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not
appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for alt.mothers and
alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either
misc.kids or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the
hierarchy by spreading the traffic out into manageable communities
that hang together comfortably in the same topic space. The name
incorporates the specific community style and is an easily searchable
term for new users to find on USENET. A poll taken following the
first RFD in September of 2002 indicated that most users generally
approved of the name choice and preferred that the moderated tag be
left off. Posts from new users not currently posting in any misc.kids
groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a wider audience than
that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not happy with
current misc.kids groups, and some returning former misc.kids
hierarchy users are the foundation of expected traffic.
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic
space flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in
misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to
deal with the possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as
opposed to subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in
misc.kids.consumers decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling
taken (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10
posts per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002
sampling were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high
traffic week sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a
consumer product thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy.
Twenty-two of those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers.
Through the use of misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and
to a lesser degree misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions
are currently conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers
should be removed to avoid confusion and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words
vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The
subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and
confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range
of topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a tone of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, ostracize, or discriminate against other
posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem
attacks, posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any
other person, posts that include personal information about other
users without their expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (ingenuine attempts to provoke from
people outside the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their
course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not
allowed. Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected
based on the number of groups and the groups included. See the
moderation policy for requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter
and moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also
provides technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter.
A mailing list is maintained for policy board discussions and to
complete policy board functions. Members may leave the policy board,
but must serve a moderator term to return. Policy board members must
resign in order to run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been
vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period
of candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal
that reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected
through emergency elections serve until the next annual election
following their election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order
to qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have
participated in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV.
Moderator candidates volunteer during the 14 day "period of
candidacy." The policy board posts a short description of each
candidate at the end of the period of candidacy. The "voting period"
begins one week after the period of candidacy and continues for 14
days. In order to vote a user must have posted directly (not cross
posted in) to the group at least two times within the previous six
months AND/OR have registered with the robomoderation software prior
to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is posted monthly to encourage
users to qualify to vote. Voting users may vote for as many
candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board at the uppermost
limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15)
are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts
relating to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with
[MOD] in order to call the attention of the community. If the
assessment indicates a need to make changes to the charter or
moderation policy, the policy board leads a public discussion lasting
21 days, presents up to three plausible solutions, and conducts a
vote. Votes are collected by the policy board for 14 days. In order
to vote in a policy assessment change, a user must qualify to vote AND
have participated in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV.
If at least 25 votes are cast on a given change, and at least 75% of
those votes favor that change, the moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote
of no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to
begin a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period,
anyone may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by
a vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number
of moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can
request a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning
(fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group) and
the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to use of the robomoderation software until the moderation
team is filled. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a tone of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light
(or "caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the
charter. A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If
the first post is borderline with respect to the charter standards or
is cross posted, the moderators may delay advancing the poster to
green light status. A poster whose first post is fully in accordance
with the charter normally advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use
a consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When a green light user violates the charter, the moderators send a
warning about posting guidelines and the implications of hand
moderation, including the slow appearance of posts. If a green light
user violates the charter three times in one month or develops a
pattern of making two posts that violate the charter per month for at
least three months, the moderators put the user on red light (or
"stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user obviously
violating the charter can put that user on red light status. The
moderators hand moderate all posts from posters with red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of posting on-charter. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status.
Posters on red light status may request a review of their status after
one-month of hand moderation.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts for hand moderation that are from yellow light users.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that are
identified as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any
kind from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and
rejects other posts from which such material has been removed, or
refers them for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small
binaries are allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts for hand moderation from posters with red light
status.
9. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall into
a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
10. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever
appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the
charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the
charter.
6. reject posts that are not on-charter that have been referred for
hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being
repeated over and over again.
8. approve posts that are referred for hand moderation and are
on-charter.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all recieved posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <aula@cfl.rr.com> came to USENET relatively
recently after her husband caught her responding to a post on one
of his mailing lists and introduced her to USENET in 1997. Aula
quickly found alt.mothers, which she continues to regard as her
"home" group, although she is active in several other groups including
misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated, rec.crafts and
alt.support.child-protective-services. Until recently Aula posted
the alt.parenting.solutions FAQ at least monthly. Aula was one of
the leaders in the recent reactivation of misc.kids. Married later
than many, Aula and her husband have one wonderful child, DS, who
is 7. Aula works days, while her husband works evenings, and both
share in the homeschooling of DS, currently in first grade [late
birthday]. Although Aula enjoys her work in children's mental
health she hopes to retire as soon as she hits the Lotto [estimated
to be in about 2092] and spend much more time with her family and
working on the many crafts she enjoys and snarfing down tim tams
straight from downunder!
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on
USENET since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids
hierarchy since 1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a
mailing list. She holds a B.S degree in Chemistry and was formerly
employed as an agricultural chemist. She and her husband were
married at a very young age and put off having children until their
late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount of time doing
marketing communication and lives on the left coast. She has three
children under the age of four.
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com> is
currently a SAHM to her son Jamie, born July 2001. She has a B.A.
in history and theatre, a minor in women's studies, and a ABT M.A.
(All But Thesis!) in British History, none of which she is currently
using! Barbara has been on USENET in some form or another since
1995, and is currently most active in misc.kids, m.k.breastfeeding,
and m.k.pregnancy, although she occasionally posts to several others.
In addition, she currently holds moderator status on several email
lists. Barbara has been married since April of 2000 and lives in
Delaware. Her other interests include singing (all sorts, but
particularly barbershop music with her Sweet Adeline chorus),
reading, and needlecrafts.
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca> is a longtime USENET
reader, poster, moderator and admin, currently changing the diapers
of his new daughter. He currently moderates over a dozen newsgroups
ranging in topic from Computer Science technical reports, to Japanese
animation fan fiction, to music reviews, to keeping ferrets as pets.
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com> is a
reformed Data Systems Analyst, who now spends most of her time
teaching young children (not necessarily her own). She has been
on USENET since 1996. She has moderated several groups, particularly
support groups which involve infertility and/or medical issues.
She was married in 2000, had her first son in June of 2001, and her
second son in July of 2002.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent
to Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband
since 1997. She is an American, but currently lives in Australia.
She has been active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy
since 2000. She remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees,
as well as actively posting on several newsgroups. She is college
educated and majored in Criminal Justice and English. Her interests
include music, writing and comparative religions. Currently, she
is a SAHM, as well as continuing her quest to learn more about our
connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net> is a former pediatrician
who has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although
he has no children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children
in New York City as well as a soccer program in the suburbs where
he lives & is a proud uncle. He is a Mad Scientist (www.madscientist.org)
and posts to several newsgroups. In his spare time, he takes computer
courses in the School of Continuing and Professional studies at
NYU.
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com> is the mother of
three children and a self-confessed USENET junkie. She began posting
to the misc.kids hierarchy (and USENET in general) shortly after
her first child was born in 1997. She received a BA in Classical
Studies from UC Santa Cruz and MA in Classics from the University
of Chicago. Her plans to pursue a PhD in Classics were cut short
by the early '90s recession, and she works (primarily from home)
as an instructional designer for a software company. She and her
husband, an architect, have been married for 13 years.
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au> has hung around Usenet
pretty much ever since she got her first computer in mid 1997. She
is married to a serving member of the Royal Australian Navy who is
away for several months at a time, and is currently a SAHM to 3
children. Her middle son has multiple heart defects and is due for
his (hopefully) last operation in late 2004. This has put any plans
to return to paid work on the back burner for the time being, so
she had another baby instead. Her main reading/lurking/posting
groups include alt.gossip.celebrities, alt.mothers, misc.kids.* and
rec.arts.sf.written with others that pop on and off the list depending
on time constraints.
Policy board:
Teresa C <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy attachment
parent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn
son in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong
quest for omniscience.
Noreen Cooper <ncooper@wahoo.sjsu.edu> is an older mom who has
traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that wild
roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience parenting
a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild neurological
disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with sleep
problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1994 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team
member and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active
in many volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group
and moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's
Degree in Library and Information Science, specializing in medical
librarianship, and plans to go back to work sometime in the near
future.
Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet since
1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service
Provider, Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine
part-time, while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver
for her toddler son and infant daughter. She is also an avid gardener
and all-around nature lover.
Heather W. <ickyspam@lycos.com> is a married New England mom of Rowan
(born November 1997), who planned her husband's immigration, their
wedding, her pregnancy, her choice of pets, and her parenting with the
assistance of various newsgroups. Each endeavor has turned out
reasonably well. ;) Heather recently retired as a moderator for the
most active Surrogate Motherhood message board online, where dealing
with hormonal women on fertility meds on a regular basis has prepared
her for most anything she'd encounter (she has also moderated two
email lists [dog breed specific list, and a surrogacy email list], and
an Internet talker [text-chat environment of the old days]). Heather
is also overly fond of parenthetical notations, but tries her hardest
to close them all properly.
END MODERATOR INFO.
ORIGINAL RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
The volume on misc.kids is getting very high, with around 200 messages
a day. Splitting off a few topics which could sustain their own
groups could make the volume on misc.kids more manageable.
misc.kids.consumers covers a sufficiently clearcut topic that it can
readily form its own group, and it represents about 9% of the traffic
on misc.kids. (The traffic estimates in this CFV are based on two
analyses of misc.kids traffic from April 16 to May 2.)
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group
will be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning
a family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those
that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People
could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get
passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already
find going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper
on an airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the
woods, it will open up the doors of communication for those who have
'alternative' ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial
vacations like Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and
explorative nature,like camping, hiking, or what-have-you.
Misc.kids.vacation will offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming
between those who have actually been there <grin>. It will offer a
special place for those who would like to do 'something different'
together. Remember, before there was Disneyland, there were
families and those families took vacations <grin>. Misc.kids.vacation
would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings
in the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people
with many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions
which go on in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the
net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal
to noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand.
Misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, misc.kids, misc.kids.consumers,
misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.health, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers, alt.support.parenting, uk.people.parents,
uk.people.parents.pregnancy, alt.support.step-parents,
alt.support.single-parents, alt.parenting.twins-triplets,
alt.infertility.parenting, soc.culture.jewish.parenting
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Technical Moderator: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 13 23:32:11 2003
From: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 3rd RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.consumers,misc.kids.computer,misc.kids.health
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Followup-To: news.groups
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:32:08 -0800
Message-ID: <1047598328.31902@isc.org>
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
Lines: 670
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11889 news.groups:427612 misc.kids.consumers:7015 misc.kids.computer:20098 misc.kids.health:111988
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
CHANGES from previous RFD:
One moderator/proponent removed, one policy board member removed,
three moderators added. Assessment format changed.
Petition to REMOVE misc.kids.computer withdrawn.
Minimum and maximum number of active moderators needed raised
Back-up moderators removed
Emergency election provision added.
Vote of no confidence provision added.
Moderation report posted weekly and expanded to include a record of
all posts and votes.
Revisions made to policy assessments, term limits for moderators,
elections, and qualifications for candidacy and voting privileges.
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization
of the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you
cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life lightly moderated general parenting community. (moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general
discussion and the removal of two topical groups that receive very
little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic specificity of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation
will be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these
topics in misc.kids.moderated and be present in the
misc.kids.famiy-life. Some traffic on these topics, particularly
consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower
in the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem
has been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic
traffic from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return
and revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's,
topical groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have
established flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also
established a loyal contingent of posters for general parenting
discussions. Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and
divide among users. Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations
has not drawn on-topic traffic away from general groups. A poll taken
in May, 2002, indicated that many topics are inseparable and others
are incompatible for reasons particular to the users and the community
style. It was also found in that study that community style is
paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in
groups with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate"
into the next group away from known sources of help and support. Some
remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic
discussions occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive
topics like breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or
homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate.
Opening those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of
discussion to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is
most comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter
out trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't
mind flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to
overlook noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower
traffic levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made
possible by requiring parenting content in initial posts.
Misc.kids.family-life represents users who would prefer a middle
ground for general discussion where topic is self-regulated.
Moderation would reject spam and blatantly malicious trolls, and
maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently
carries 78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from
around 1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500.
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting
traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than
820 posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com).
Alt.mothers has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did
not wish to be a part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents
3 responses in the survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved
signal-to-noise ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is
still a problem. More than half of the respondents use more than one
misc.kids.* group. More than half of those subscribing to multiple
groups were dissatisfied with the low traffic and parenting content
restrictions in misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the
respondents would consider using a new lightly moderated group. The
survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not
appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for alt.mothers and
alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either
misc.kids or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the
hierarchy by spreading the traffic out into manageable communities
that hang together comfortably in the same topic space. The name
incorporates the specific community style and is an easily searchable
term for new users to find on USENET. A poll taken following the
first RFD in September of 2002 indicated that most users generally
approved of the name choice and preferred that the moderated tag be
left off. Posts from new users not currently posting in any misc.kids
groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a wider audience than
that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not happy with
current misc.kids groups, and some returning former misc.kids
hierarchy users are the foundation of expected traffic.
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic
space flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in
misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to
deal with the possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as
opposed to subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in
misc.kids.consumers decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling
taken (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10
posts per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002
sampling were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high
traffic week sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a
consumer product thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy.
Twenty-two of those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers.
Through the use of misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and
to a lesser degree misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions
are currently conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers
should be removed to avoid confusion and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words
vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The
subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and
confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range
of topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a tone of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, ostracize, or discriminate against other
posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem
attacks, posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any
other person, posts that include personal information about other
users without their expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (ingenuine attempts to provoke from
people outside the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their
course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not
allowed. Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected
based on the number of groups and the groups included. See the
moderation policy for requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter
and moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also
provides technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter.
A mailing list is maintained for policy board discussions and to
complete policy board functions. Members may leave the policy board,
but must serve a moderator term to return. Policy board members must
resign in order to run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been
vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period
of candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal
that reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected
through emergency elections serve until the next annual election
following their election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order
to qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have
participated in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV.
Moderator candidates volunteer during the 14 day "period of
candidacy." The policy board posts a short description of each
candidate at the end of the period of candidacy. The "voting period"
begins one week after the period of candidacy and continues for 14
days. In order to vote a user must have posted directly (not cross
posted in) to the group at least two times within the previous six
months AND/OR have registered with the robomoderation software prior
to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is posted monthly to encourage
users to qualify to vote. Voting users may vote for as many
candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board at the uppermost
limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15)
are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts
relating to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with
[MOD] in order to call the attention of the community. If the
assessment indicates a need to make changes to the charter or
moderation policy, the policy board leads a public discussion lasting
21 days, presents up to three plausible solutions, and conducts a
vote. Votes are collected by the policy board for 14 days. In order
to vote in a policy assessment change, a user must qualify to vote AND
have participated in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV.
If at least 25 votes are cast on a given change, and at least 75% of
those votes favor that change, the moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote
of no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to
begin a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period,
anyone may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by
a vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number
of moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can
request a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning
(fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group) and
the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to use of the robomoderation software until the moderation
team is filled. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a tone of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light
(or "caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the
charter. A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If
the first post is borderline with respect to the charter standards or
is cross posted, the moderators may delay advancing the poster to
green light status. A poster whose first post is fully in accordance
with the charter normally advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use
a consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When a green light user violates the charter, the moderators send a
warning about posting guidelines and the implications of hand
moderation, including the slow appearance of posts. If a green light
user violates the charter three times in one month or develops a
pattern of making two posts that violate the charter per month for at
least three months, the moderators put the user on red light (or
"stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user obviously
violating the charter can put that user on red light status. The
moderators hand moderate all posts from posters with red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of posting on-charter. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status.
Posters on red light status may request a review of their status after
one-month of hand moderation.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts for hand moderation that are from yellow light users.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that are
identified as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any
kind from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and
rejects other posts from which such material has been removed, or
refers them for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small
binaries are allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts for hand moderation from posters with red light
status.
9. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall into
a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
10. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever
appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the
charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the
charter.
6. reject posts that are not on-charter that have been referred for
hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being
repeated over and over again.
8. approve posts that are referred for hand moderation and are
on-charter.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all recieved posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <aula@cfl.rr.com> came to USENET relatively
recently after her husband caught her responding to a post on one
of his mailing lists and introduced her to USENET in 1997. Aula
quickly found alt.mothers, which she continues to regard as her
"home" group, although she is active in several other groups including
misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated, rec.crafts and
alt.support.child-protective-services. Until recently Aula posted
the alt.parenting.solutions FAQ at least monthly. Aula was one of
the leaders in the recent reactivation of misc.kids. Married later
than many, Aula and her husband have one wonderful child, DS, who
is 7. Aula works days, while her husband works evenings, and both
share in the homeschooling of DS, currently in first grade [late
birthday]. Although Aula enjoys her work in children's mental
health she hopes to retire as soon as she hits the Lotto [estimated
to be in about 2092] and spend much more time with her family and
working on the many crafts she enjoys and snarfing down tim tams
straight from downunder!
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on
USENET since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids
hierarchy since 1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a
mailing list. She holds a B.S degree in Chemistry and was formerly
employed as an agricultural chemist. She and her husband were
married at a very young age and put off having children until their
late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount of time doing
marketing communication and lives on the left coast. She has three
children under the age of four.
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com> is
currently a SAHM to her son Jamie, born July 2001. She has a B.A.
in history and theatre, a minor in women's studies, and a ABT M.A.
(All But Thesis!) in British History, none of which she is currently
using! Barbara has been on USENET in some form or another since
1995, and is currently most active in misc.kids, m.k.breastfeeding,
and m.k.pregnancy, although she occasionally posts to several others.
In addition, she currently holds moderator status on several email
lists. Barbara has been married since April of 2000 and lives in
Delaware. Her other interests include singing (all sorts, but
particularly barbershop music with her Sweet Adeline chorus),
reading, and needlecrafts.
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca> is a longtime USENET
reader, poster, moderator and admin, currently changing the diapers
of his new daughter. He currently moderates over a dozen newsgroups
ranging in topic from Computer Science technical reports, to Japanese
animation fan fiction, to music reviews, to keeping ferrets as pets.
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com> is a
reformed Data Systems Analyst, who now spends most of her time
teaching young children (not necessarily her own). She has been
on USENET since 1996. She has moderated several groups, particularly
support groups which involve infertility and/or medical issues.
She was married in 2000, had her first son in June of 2001, and her
second son in July of 2002.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent
to Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband
since 1997. She is an American, but currently lives in Australia.
She has been active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy
since 2000. She remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees,
as well as actively posting on several newsgroups. She is college
educated and majored in Criminal Justice and English. Her interests
include music, writing and comparative religions. Currently, she
is a SAHM, as well as continuing her quest to learn more about our
connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net> is a former pediatrician
who has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although
he has no children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children
in New York City as well as a soccer program in the suburbs where
he lives & is a proud uncle. He is a Mad Scientist (www.madscientist.org)
and posts to several newsgroups. In his spare time, he takes computer
courses in the School of Continuing and Professional studies at
NYU.
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com> is the mother of
three children and a self-confessed USENET junkie. She began posting
to the misc.kids hierarchy (and USENET in general) shortly after
her first child was born in 1997. She received a BA in Classical
Studies from UC Santa Cruz and MA in Classics from the University
of Chicago. Her plans to pursue a PhD in Classics were cut short
by the early '90s recession, and she works (primarily from home)
as an instructional designer for a software company. She and her
husband, an architect, have been married for 13 years.
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au> has hung around Usenet
pretty much ever since she got her first computer in mid 1997. She
is married to a serving member of the Royal Australian Navy who is
away for several months at a time, and is currently a SAHM to 3
children. Her middle son has multiple heart defects and is due for
his (hopefully) last operation in late 2004. This has put any plans
to return to paid work on the back burner for the time being, so
she had another baby instead. Her main reading/lurking/posting
groups include alt.gossip.celebrities, alt.mothers, misc.kids.* and
rec.arts.sf.written with others that pop on and off the list depending
on time constraints.
Policy board:
Teresa C <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy attachment
parent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn
son in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong
quest for omniscience.
Noreen Cooper <ncooper@wahoo.sjsu.edu> is an older mom who has
traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that wild
roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience parenting
a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild neurological
disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with sleep
problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1994 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team
member and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active
in many volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group
and moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's
Degree in Library and Information Science, specializing in medical
librarianship, and plans to go back to work sometime in the near
future.
Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet since
1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service
Provider, Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine
part-time, while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver
for her toddler son and infant daughter. She is also an avid gardener
and all-around nature lover.
Heather W. <ickyspam@lycos.com> is a married New England mom of Rowan
(born November 1997), who planned her husband's immigration, their
wedding, her pregnancy, her choice of pets, and her parenting with the
assistance of various newsgroups. Each endeavor has turned out
reasonably well. ;) Heather recently retired as a moderator for the
most active Surrogate Motherhood message board online, where dealing
with hormonal women on fertility meds on a regular basis has prepared
her for most anything she'd encounter (she has also moderated two
email lists [dog breed specific list, and a surrogacy email list], and
an Internet talker [text-chat environment of the old days]). Heather
is also overly fond of parenthetical notations, but tries her hardest
to close them all properly.
END MODERATOR INFO.
ORIGINAL RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
The volume on misc.kids is getting very high, with around 200 messages
a day. Splitting off a few topics which could sustain their own
groups could make the volume on misc.kids more manageable.
misc.kids.consumers covers a sufficiently clearcut topic that it can
readily form its own group, and it represents about 9% of the traffic
on misc.kids. (The traffic estimates in this CFV are based on two
analyses of misc.kids traffic from April 16 to May 2.)
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group
will be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning
a family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those
that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People
could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get
passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already
find going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper
on an airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the
woods, it will open up the doors of communication for those who have
'alternative' ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial
vacations like Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and
explorative nature,like camping, hiking, or what-have-you.
Misc.kids.vacation will offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming
between those who have actually been there <grin>. It will offer a
special place for those who would like to do 'something different'
together. Remember, before there was Disneyland, there were
families and those families took vacations <grin>. Misc.kids.vacation
would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings
in the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people
with many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions
which go on in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the
net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal
to noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand.
Misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, misc.kids, misc.kids.consumers,
misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.health, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers, alt.support.parenting, uk.people.parents,
uk.people.parents.pregnancy, alt.support.step-parents,
alt.support.single-parents, alt.parenting.twins-triplets,
alt.infertility.parenting, soc.culture.jewish.parenting
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Technical Moderator: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 13 23:32:46 2003
From: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 3rd RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Followup-To: news.groups
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:32:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1047598363.31904@isc.org>
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
Lines: 670
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11890 news.groups:427613 misc.kids.breastfeeding:202339
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
CHANGES from previous RFD:
One moderator/proponent removed, one policy board member removed,
three moderators added. Assessment format changed.
Petition to REMOVE misc.kids.computer withdrawn.
Minimum and maximum number of active moderators needed raised
Back-up moderators removed
Emergency election provision added.
Vote of no confidence provision added.
Moderation report posted weekly and expanded to include a record of
all posts and votes.
Revisions made to policy assessments, term limits for moderators,
elections, and qualifications for candidacy and voting privileges.
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization
of the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you
cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life lightly moderated general parenting community. (moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general
discussion and the removal of two topical groups that receive very
little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic specificity of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation
will be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these
topics in misc.kids.moderated and be present in the
misc.kids.famiy-life. Some traffic on these topics, particularly
consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower
in the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem
has been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic
traffic from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return
and revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's,
topical groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have
established flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also
established a loyal contingent of posters for general parenting
discussions. Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and
divide among users. Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations
has not drawn on-topic traffic away from general groups. A poll taken
in May, 2002, indicated that many topics are inseparable and others
are incompatible for reasons particular to the users and the community
style. It was also found in that study that community style is
paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in
groups with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate"
into the next group away from known sources of help and support. Some
remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic
discussions occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive
topics like breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or
homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate.
Opening those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of
discussion to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is
most comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter
out trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't
mind flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to
overlook noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower
traffic levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made
possible by requiring parenting content in initial posts.
Misc.kids.family-life represents users who would prefer a middle
ground for general discussion where topic is self-regulated.
Moderation would reject spam and blatantly malicious trolls, and
maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently
carries 78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from
around 1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500.
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting
traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than
820 posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com).
Alt.mothers has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did
not wish to be a part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents
3 responses in the survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved
signal-to-noise ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is
still a problem. More than half of the respondents use more than one
misc.kids.* group. More than half of those subscribing to multiple
groups were dissatisfied with the low traffic and parenting content
restrictions in misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the
respondents would consider using a new lightly moderated group. The
survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not
appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for alt.mothers and
alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either
misc.kids or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the
hierarchy by spreading the traffic out into manageable communities
that hang together comfortably in the same topic space. The name
incorporates the specific community style and is an easily searchable
term for new users to find on USENET. A poll taken following the
first RFD in September of 2002 indicated that most users generally
approved of the name choice and preferred that the moderated tag be
left off. Posts from new users not currently posting in any misc.kids
groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a wider audience than
that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not happy with
current misc.kids groups, and some returning former misc.kids
hierarchy users are the foundation of expected traffic.
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic
space flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in
misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to
deal with the possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as
opposed to subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in
misc.kids.consumers decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling
taken (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10
posts per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002
sampling were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high
traffic week sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a
consumer product thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy.
Twenty-two of those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers.
Through the use of misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and
to a lesser degree misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions
are currently conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers
should be removed to avoid confusion and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words
vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The
subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and
confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range
of topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a tone of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, ostracize, or discriminate against other
posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem
attacks, posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any
other person, posts that include personal information about other
users without their expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (ingenuine attempts to provoke from
people outside the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their
course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not
allowed. Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected
based on the number of groups and the groups included. See the
moderation policy for requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter
and moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also
provides technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter.
A mailing list is maintained for policy board discussions and to
complete policy board functions. Members may leave the policy board,
but must serve a moderator term to return. Policy board members must
resign in order to run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been
vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period
of candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal
that reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected
through emergency elections serve until the next annual election
following their election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order
to qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have
participated in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV.
Moderator candidates volunteer during the 14 day "period of
candidacy." The policy board posts a short description of each
candidate at the end of the period of candidacy. The "voting period"
begins one week after the period of candidacy and continues for 14
days. In order to vote a user must have posted directly (not cross
posted in) to the group at least two times within the previous six
months AND/OR have registered with the robomoderation software prior
to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is posted monthly to encourage
users to qualify to vote. Voting users may vote for as many
candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board at the uppermost
limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15)
are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts
relating to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with
[MOD] in order to call the attention of the community. If the
assessment indicates a need to make changes to the charter or
moderation policy, the policy board leads a public discussion lasting
21 days, presents up to three plausible solutions, and conducts a
vote. Votes are collected by the policy board for 14 days. In order
to vote in a policy assessment change, a user must qualify to vote AND
have participated in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV.
If at least 25 votes are cast on a given change, and at least 75% of
those votes favor that change, the moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote
of no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to
begin a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period,
anyone may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by
a vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number
of moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can
request a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning
(fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group) and
the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to use of the robomoderation software until the moderation
team is filled. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a tone of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light
(or "caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the
charter. A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If
the first post is borderline with respect to the charter standards or
is cross posted, the moderators may delay advancing the poster to
green light status. A poster whose first post is fully in accordance
with the charter normally advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use
a consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When a green light user violates the charter, the moderators send a
warning about posting guidelines and the implications of hand
moderation, including the slow appearance of posts. If a green light
user violates the charter three times in one month or develops a
pattern of making two posts that violate the charter per month for at
least three months, the moderators put the user on red light (or
"stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user obviously
violating the charter can put that user on red light status. The
moderators hand moderate all posts from posters with red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of posting on-charter. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status.
Posters on red light status may request a review of their status after
one-month of hand moderation.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts for hand moderation that are from yellow light users.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that are
identified as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any
kind from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and
rejects other posts from which such material has been removed, or
refers them for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small
binaries are allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts for hand moderation from posters with red light
status.
9. refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall into
a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
10. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever
appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the
charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the
charter.
6. reject posts that are not on-charter that have been referred for
hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being
repeated over and over again.
8. approve posts that are referred for hand moderation and are
on-charter.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all recieved posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <aula@cfl.rr.com> came to USENET relatively
recently after her husband caught her responding to a post on one
of his mailing lists and introduced her to USENET in 1997. Aula
quickly found alt.mothers, which she continues to regard as her
"home" group, although she is active in several other groups including
misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated, rec.crafts and
alt.support.child-protective-services. Until recently Aula posted
the alt.parenting.solutions FAQ at least monthly. Aula was one of
the leaders in the recent reactivation of misc.kids. Married later
than many, Aula and her husband have one wonderful child, DS, who
is 7. Aula works days, while her husband works evenings, and both
share in the homeschooling of DS, currently in first grade [late
birthday]. Although Aula enjoys her work in children's mental
health she hopes to retire as soon as she hits the Lotto [estimated
to be in about 2092] and spend much more time with her family and
working on the many crafts she enjoys and snarfing down tim tams
straight from downunder!
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on
USENET since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids
hierarchy since 1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a
mailing list. She holds a B.S degree in Chemistry and was formerly
employed as an agricultural chemist. She and her husband were
married at a very young age and put off having children until their
late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount of time doing
marketing communication and lives on the left coast. She has three
children under the age of four.
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com> is
currently a SAHM to her son Jamie, born July 2001. She has a B.A.
in history and theatre, a minor in women's studies, and a ABT M.A.
(All But Thesis!) in British History, none of which she is currently
using! Barbara has been on USENET in some form or another since
1995, and is currently most active in misc.kids, m.k.breastfeeding,
and m.k.pregnancy, although she occasionally posts to several others.
In addition, she currently holds moderator status on several email
lists. Barbara has been married since April of 2000 and lives in
Delaware. Her other interests include singing (all sorts, but
particularly barbershop music with her Sweet Adeline chorus),
reading, and needlecrafts.
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca> is a longtime USENET
reader, poster, moderator and admin, currently changing the diapers
of his new daughter. He currently moderates over a dozen newsgroups
ranging in topic from Computer Science technical reports, to Japanese
animation fan fiction, to music reviews, to keeping ferrets as pets.
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com> is a
reformed Data Systems Analyst, who now spends most of her time
teaching young children (not necessarily her own). She has been
on USENET since 1996. She has moderated several groups, particularly
support groups which involve infertility and/or medical issues.
She was married in 2000, had her first son in June of 2001, and her
second son in July of 2002.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent
to Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband
since 1997. She is an American, but currently lives in Australia.
She has been active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy
since 2000. She remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees,
as well as actively posting on several newsgroups. She is college
educated and majored in Criminal Justice and English. Her interests
include music, writing and comparative religions. Currently, she
is a SAHM, as well as continuing her quest to learn more about our
connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net> is a former pediatrician
who has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although
he has no children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children
in New York City as well as a soccer program in the suburbs where
he lives & is a proud uncle. He is a Mad Scientist (www.madscientist.org)
and posts to several newsgroups. In his spare time, he takes computer
courses in the School of Continuing and Professional studies at
NYU.
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com> is the mother of
three children and a self-confessed USENET junkie. She began posting
to the misc.kids hierarchy (and USENET in general) shortly after
her first child was born in 1997. She received a BA in Classical
Studies from UC Santa Cruz and MA in Classics from the University
of Chicago. Her plans to pursue a PhD in Classics were cut short
by the early '90s recession, and she works (primarily from home)
as an instructional designer for a software company. She and her
husband, an architect, have been married for 13 years.
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au> has hung around Usenet
pretty much ever since she got her first computer in mid 1997. She
is married to a serving member of the Royal Australian Navy who is
away for several months at a time, and is currently a SAHM to 3
children. Her middle son has multiple heart defects and is due for
his (hopefully) last operation in late 2004. This has put any plans
to return to paid work on the back burner for the time being, so
she had another baby instead. Her main reading/lurking/posting
groups include alt.gossip.celebrities, alt.mothers, misc.kids.* and
rec.arts.sf.written with others that pop on and off the list depending
on time constraints.
Policy board:
Teresa C <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy attachment
parent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn
son in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong
quest for omniscience.
Noreen Cooper <ncooper@wahoo.sjsu.edu> is an older mom who has
traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that wild
roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience parenting
a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild neurological
disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with sleep
problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1994 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team
member and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active
in many volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group
and moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's
Degree in Library and Information Science, specializing in medical
librarianship, and plans to go back to work sometime in the near
future.
Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet since
1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service
Provider, Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine
part-time, while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver
for her toddler son and infant daughter. She is also an avid gardener
and all-around nature lover.
Heather W. <ickyspam@lycos.com> is a married New England mom of Rowan
(born November 1997), who planned her husband's immigration, their
wedding, her pregnancy, her choice of pets, and her parenting with the
assistance of various newsgroups. Each endeavor has turned out
reasonably well. ;) Heather recently retired as a moderator for the
most active Surrogate Motherhood message board online, where dealing
with hormonal women on fertility meds on a regular basis has prepared
her for most anything she'd encounter (she has also moderated two
email lists [dog breed specific list, and a surrogacy email list], and
an Internet talker [text-chat environment of the old days]). Heather
is also overly fond of parenthetical notations, but tries her hardest
to close them all properly.
END MODERATOR INFO.
ORIGINAL RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
The volume on misc.kids is getting very high, with around 200 messages
a day. Splitting off a few topics which could sustain their own
groups could make the volume on misc.kids more manageable.
misc.kids.consumers covers a sufficiently clearcut topic that it can
readily form its own group, and it represents about 9% of the traffic
on misc.kids. (The traffic estimates in this CFV are based on two
analyses of misc.kids traffic from April 16 to May 2.)
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group
will be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning
a family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those
that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People
could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get
passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already
find going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper
on an airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the
woods, it will open up the doors of communication for those who have
'alternative' ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial
vacations like Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and
explorative nature,like camping, hiking, or what-have-you.
Misc.kids.vacation will offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming
between those who have actually been there <grin>. It will offer a
special place for those who would like to do 'something different'
together. Remember, before there was Disneyland, there were
families and those families took vacations <grin>. Misc.kids.vacation
would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings
in the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people
with many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions
which go on in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the
net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal
to noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand.
Misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, misc.kids, misc.kids.consumers,
misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.pregnancy,
misc.kids.health, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers, alt.support.parenting, uk.people.parents,
uk.people.parents.pregnancy, alt.support.step-parents,
alt.support.single-parents, alt.parenting.twins-triplets,
alt.infertility.parenting, soc.culture.jewish.parenting
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Technical Moderator: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca>
From usenet Wed Jun 18 04:33:49 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: NAN Team <newgroups-request@isc.org>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.consumers,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy
Subject: CFV CANCELLED: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1054439613.26262@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:53:33 +0000
Lines: 18
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9329 news.groups:443012 misc.kids.consumers:7804 misc.kids.health:120662 misc.kids.pregnancy:682560
The Call For Votes (CFV) for the misc.kids.* reorganization is now
cancelled, due to technical problems by the votetaker. This
reorganization concerned the creation of the moderated group
misc.kids.family-life, and the removal of the groups misc.kids.consumers
and misc.kids.vacation.
Shortly before the voting period ended, the votetaker stated that
an unexpectedly large amount of e-mail spam was crippling his
machine, and that he was unable to confirm votes. Little else is
known. Repeated attempts to contact the votetaker (including by
telephone) were subsequently unsuccessful.
A different votetaker has been assigned, and a new CFV will be
posted in the next few days; those who voted MUST vote again at
that time, if they want their votes to count. Please accept our
apology for this inconvenience.
Todd McComb for NAN Team
From usenet Wed Jun 18 04:33:49 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: NAN Team <newgroups-request@isc.org>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.computer
Subject: CFV CANCELLED: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1054439771.26268@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:56:11 +0000
Lines: 18
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9330 news.groups:443013 misc.kids:547220 misc.kids.breastfeeding:228872 misc.kids.computer:22059
The Call For Votes (CFV) for the misc.kids.* reorganization is now
cancelled, due to technical problems by the votetaker. This
reorganization concerned the creation of the moderated group
misc.kids.family-life, and the removal of the groups misc.kids.consumers
and misc.kids.vacation.
Shortly before the voting period ended, the votetaker stated that
an unexpectedly large amount of e-mail spam was crippling his
machine, and that he was unable to confirm votes. Little else is
known. Repeated attempts to contact the votetaker (including by
telephone) were subsequently unsuccessful.
A different votetaker has been assigned, and a new CFV will be
posted in the next few days; those who voted MUST vote again at
that time, if they want their votes to count. Please accept our
apology for this inconvenience.
Todd McComb for NAN Team
From usenet Wed Jun 18 04:33:49 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: NAN Team <newgroups-request@isc.org>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.vacation
Subject: CFV CANCELLED: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1054439801.26271@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:56:41 +0000
Lines: 18
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9331 news.groups:443014 misc.kids.vacation:12235
The Call For Votes (CFV) for the misc.kids.* reorganization is now
cancelled, due to technical problems by the votetaker. This
reorganization concerned the creation of the moderated group
misc.kids.family-life, and the removal of the groups misc.kids.consumers
and misc.kids.vacation.
Shortly before the voting period ended, the votetaker stated that
an unexpectedly large amount of e-mail spam was crippling his
machine, and that he was unable to confirm votes. Little else is
known. Repeated attempts to contact the votetaker (including by
telephone) were subsequently unsuccessful.
A different votetaker has been assigned, and a new CFV will be
posted in the next few days; those who voted MUST vote again at
that time, if they want their votes to count. Please accept our
apology for this inconvenience.
Todd McComb for NAN Team
From usenet Wed Jun 18 04:33:49 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
Reply-To: mkvote@technopagan.org
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.vacation,misc.kids,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Subject: CFV: misc.kids.* reorganization (REVOTE)
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <1054495845.30505@isc.org>
Supersedes: <1051068974.20679@isc.org>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Expires: 23 Jun 2003 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 19:30:45 +0000
Lines: 583
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9332 news.groups:443034 misc.kids.vacation:12236 misc.kids:547269 misc.kids.breastfeeding:228934
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This is a REVOTE. Previous votes have been discarded due to
technical problems by another votetaker. If you voted previously,
and want your vote to count, YOU MUST VOTE AGAIN. We are all
sorry, but there is simply nothing which can be done about that. ]
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life Lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 Jun 2003.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Votetaker: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
RATIONALE: misc.kids.family-life
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of two topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the focused parenting discussions of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation will
be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these topics in
misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new misc.kids.famiy-life.
Some traffic on these topics, particularly consumers, will also continue
on misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in
the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has
been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic
>from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and
revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topical
groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have established
flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also established a
loyal contingent of posters for general parenting discussions.
Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and divide among users.
Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. A poll taken in May, 2002, indicated
that many topics are inseparable and others are incompatible for reasons
particular to the users and the community style. It was also found in
that study that community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in groups
with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the
next group away from known sources of help and support. Some remain in
multiple groups along the life span in order to share insight with other
posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic discussions
occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting style
evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate. Opening
those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion
to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most
comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter out
trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't mind
flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to overlook
noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic
levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made possible by
requiring parenting content in initial posts. Misc.kids.family-life
represents users who would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where topic is self-regulated. Moderation would reject spam and
blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries
78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from around
1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500. Misc.kids.moderated
constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the
hierarchy. General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which
averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day
since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has
discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is still a problem.
More than half of the respondents use more than one misc.kids.* group.
More than half of those subscribing to multiple groups were dissatisfied
with the low traffic and parenting content restrictions in
misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the respondents would consider
using a new lightly moderated group. The survey was posted to all
groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info)
and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids
or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find
on USENET. A poll taken following the first RFD in September of 2002
indicated that most users generally approved of the name choice and
preferred that the moderated tag be left off. Posts from new users not
currently posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who
would prefer a wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy,
users who are not happy with current misc.kids groups, and some
returning former misc.kids hierarchy users are the foundation of
expected traffic.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic space
flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to deal with the
possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in misc.kids.consumers
decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling taken
(5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1,
6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two
advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled
10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of
those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of
misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently
conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to
avoid confusion and duplication.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.vacation
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation,
travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject
"Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As vacation
discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range of
topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, or discriminate against other posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks,
posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any other person,
posts that include personal information about other users without their
expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (attempts from outside the community
to provoke all or particular members of the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected based on the
number of groups and the groups included. See the moderation policy for
requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter and
moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also provides
technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter. A mailing
list is maintained for policy board discussions and to complete policy
board functions. Members may leave the policy board, but must serve a
moderator term to return. Policy board members must resign in order to
run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period of
candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal that
reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected through
emergency elections serve until the next annual election following their
election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order to
qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated
in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. Moderator candidates
volunteer during the 14 day "period of candidacy." The policy board
posts a short description of each candidate at the end of the period of
candidacy. The "voting period" begins one week after the period of
candidacy and continues for 14 days. In order to vote a user must have
posted directly (not cross posted in) to the group at least two times
within the previous six months AND/OR have registered with the
robomoderation software prior to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is
posted monthly to encourage users to qualify to vote. Voting users may
vote for as many candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board
at the uppermost limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes
(minimum of 15) are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating
to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with [MOD] in order
to call the attention of the community. If the assessment indicates a
need to make changes to the charter or moderation policy, the policy
board leads a public discussion lasting 21 days, presents up to three
plausible solutions, and conducts a vote. Votes are collected by the
policy board for 14 days. In order to vote in a policy assessment
change, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. If at least 25 votes are cast on
a given change, and at least 75% of those votes favor that change, the
moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote of
no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to begin
a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period, anyone
may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by a
vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number of
moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can request
a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (for
example, fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group)
and the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to robomoderation software until the moderation team is
functioning. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light (or
"caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the charter.
A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If the first post
is borderline with respect to the charter standards or is cross posted,
the moderators may delay advancing the poster to green light status. A
poster whose first post is fully in accordance with the charter normally
advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use a
consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When more than 50% of the moderators agree that a post from a green
light user violates the charter, the moderators send a warning about
posting guidelines and the implications of hand moderation, including
the slow appearance of posts. If a green light user receives three
warnings in one month or develops a pattern of receiving two warnings
each month for at least three months, the moderators put the user on red
light (or "stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user which
obviously violates the charter (and is rejected) can put that user on
red light status. In extreme cases, any moderator may place a poster on
temporary red light status for 24 hours, but the majority (more than
50%) of moderators must agree to retain a poster on red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of on-charter posting. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status that all
their posts are hand-moderated. Posters on red light status may request
a review of their status after one month of hand moderation, but remain
on red light status until they develop a pattern of on-charter posting.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts from yellow light users for hand moderation.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts identified
as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
>from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and rejects
other posts from which such material has been removed, or refers them
for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small binaries are
allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts from red light status posters for hand moderation.
9. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall
into a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the
group and/or protect the moderators (for example: a website begins
dumping large quantities of messages into the moderation queue).
10.rejects posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the charter.
6. reject off-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
8. approve on-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all received posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group will
be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning a
family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those that,
...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People could find
out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get passed by,
because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already find
going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper on an
airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve extensive
travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it
will open up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative'
ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like
Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative
nature, like camping, hiking, or what-have-you. Misc.kids.vacation will
offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those who
would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before there
was Disneyland, there were families and those families took vacations <grin>.
Misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts
of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings in
the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people with
many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions which go on
in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal to
noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand. Misc.kids.vacation
is a natural extension of that environment
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org>
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com>
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca>
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com>
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au>
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net>
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com>
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au>
Administrative contact address: misc-kids-family-life-moderator@gweep.ca
Article submission address: misc-kids-family-life@gweep.ca
END MODERATOR INFO.
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose. Do *not* distribute this CFV; instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.
This is a public vote: All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post. The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.
At most one vote is allowed per person or per account. Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.
Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist). Votes from nonexistent
accounts or with munged, spam-blocked, or undeliverable addresses are
invalid and will NOT be counted.
Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <dave@technopagan.org>
HOW TO VOTE:
Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts. Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!
Fill in the ballot as shown below. Please provide your real name
(or established Usenet handle) and indicate your desired vote in the
appropriate locations inside the ballot.
Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
[ CANCEL ] example.cancellation
DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.
When finished, MAIL the vote to <nanabvote@technopagan.org>
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.
Votes mailed to any other email address, including that of the votetaker,
will NOT be counted.
If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem. You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.
If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at
http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.
NOTE: A YES vote for misc.kids.family-life is a vote to CREATE the
group. A YES vote for misc.kids.consumers or misc.kids.vacation is a
vote to REMOVE those groups.
======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: misc.kids-reorg2
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot [MK-42-1] (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Established
| Usenet handles are also acceptable. Place ONLY your name (ie. do NOT
| include your e-mail address or any other information; ONLY your name)
| after the colon on the following line:
Voter Name:
| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
Your Vote Newsgroup
--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
[ ] misc.kids.family-life (CREATE)
[ ] misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE)
[ ] misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE)
======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============
DISTRIBUTION:
Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
alt.infertility.parenting
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.twins-triplets
alt.support.single-parents
alt.support.step-parents
soc.culture.jewish.parenting
uk.people.parents
uk.people.parents.pregnancy
From usenet Wed Jun 18 04:33:49 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
Reply-To: mkvote@technopagan.org
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,misc.kids.computer,misc.kids.consumers,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy
Subject: CFV: misc.kids.* reorganization (REVOTE)
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <1054495973.30516@isc.org>
Supersedes: <1051068921.20673@isc.org>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Expires: 23 Jun 2003 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 19:32:53 +0000
Lines: 583
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9333 misc.kids.computer:22060 misc.kids.consumers:7807 misc.kids.health:120667 misc.kids.pregnancy:682621
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This is a REVOTE. Previous votes have been discarded due to
technical problems by another votetaker. If you voted previously,
and want your vote to count, YOU MUST VOTE AGAIN. We are all
sorry, but there is simply nothing which can be done about that. ]
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life Lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 Jun 2003.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Votetaker: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
RATIONALE: misc.kids.family-life
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of two topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the focused parenting discussions of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation will
be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these topics in
misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new misc.kids.famiy-life.
Some traffic on these topics, particularly consumers, will also continue
on misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in
the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has
been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic
>from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and
revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topical
groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have established
flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also established a
loyal contingent of posters for general parenting discussions.
Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and divide among users.
Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. A poll taken in May, 2002, indicated
that many topics are inseparable and others are incompatible for reasons
particular to the users and the community style. It was also found in
that study that community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in groups
with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the
next group away from known sources of help and support. Some remain in
multiple groups along the life span in order to share insight with other
posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic discussions
occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting style
evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate. Opening
those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion
to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most
comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter out
trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't mind
flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to overlook
noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic
levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made possible by
requiring parenting content in initial posts. Misc.kids.family-life
represents users who would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where topic is self-regulated. Moderation would reject spam and
blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries
78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from around
1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500. Misc.kids.moderated
constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the
hierarchy. General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which
averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day
since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has
discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is still a problem.
More than half of the respondents use more than one misc.kids.* group.
More than half of those subscribing to multiple groups were dissatisfied
with the low traffic and parenting content restrictions in
misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the respondents would consider
using a new lightly moderated group. The survey was posted to all
groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info)
and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids
or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find
on USENET. A poll taken following the first RFD in September of 2002
indicated that most users generally approved of the name choice and
preferred that the moderated tag be left off. Posts from new users not
currently posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who
would prefer a wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy,
users who are not happy with current misc.kids groups, and some
returning former misc.kids hierarchy users are the foundation of
expected traffic.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic space
flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to deal with the
possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in misc.kids.consumers
decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling taken
(5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1,
6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two
advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled
10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of
those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of
misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently
conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to
avoid confusion and duplication.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.vacation
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation,
travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject
"Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As vacation
discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range of
topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, or discriminate against other posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks,
posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any other person,
posts that include personal information about other users without their
expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (attempts from outside the community
to provoke all or particular members of the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected based on the
number of groups and the groups included. See the moderation policy for
requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter and
moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also provides
technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter. A mailing
list is maintained for policy board discussions and to complete policy
board functions. Members may leave the policy board, but must serve a
moderator term to return. Policy board members must resign in order to
run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period of
candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal that
reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected through
emergency elections serve until the next annual election following their
election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order to
qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated
in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. Moderator candidates
volunteer during the 14 day "period of candidacy." The policy board
posts a short description of each candidate at the end of the period of
candidacy. The "voting period" begins one week after the period of
candidacy and continues for 14 days. In order to vote a user must have
posted directly (not cross posted in) to the group at least two times
within the previous six months AND/OR have registered with the
robomoderation software prior to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is
posted monthly to encourage users to qualify to vote. Voting users may
vote for as many candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board
at the uppermost limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes
(minimum of 15) are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating
to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with [MOD] in order
to call the attention of the community. If the assessment indicates a
need to make changes to the charter or moderation policy, the policy
board leads a public discussion lasting 21 days, presents up to three
plausible solutions, and conducts a vote. Votes are collected by the
policy board for 14 days. In order to vote in a policy assessment
change, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. If at least 25 votes are cast on
a given change, and at least 75% of those votes favor that change, the
moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote of
no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to begin
a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period, anyone
may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by a
vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number of
moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can request
a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (for
example, fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group)
and the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to robomoderation software until the moderation team is
functioning. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light (or
"caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the charter.
A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If the first post
is borderline with respect to the charter standards or is cross posted,
the moderators may delay advancing the poster to green light status. A
poster whose first post is fully in accordance with the charter normally
advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use a
consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When more than 50% of the moderators agree that a post from a green
light user violates the charter, the moderators send a warning about
posting guidelines and the implications of hand moderation, including
the slow appearance of posts. If a green light user receives three
warnings in one month or develops a pattern of receiving two warnings
each month for at least three months, the moderators put the user on red
light (or "stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user which
obviously violates the charter (and is rejected) can put that user on
red light status. In extreme cases, any moderator may place a poster on
temporary red light status for 24 hours, but the majority (more than
50%) of moderators must agree to retain a poster on red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of on-charter posting. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status that all
their posts are hand-moderated. Posters on red light status may request
a review of their status after one month of hand moderation, but remain
on red light status until they develop a pattern of on-charter posting.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts from yellow light users for hand moderation.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts identified
as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
>from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and rejects
other posts from which such material has been removed, or refers them
for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small binaries are
allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts from red light status posters for hand moderation.
9. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall
into a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the
group and/or protect the moderators (for example: a website begins
dumping large quantities of messages into the moderation queue).
10.rejects posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the charter.
6. reject off-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
8. approve on-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all received posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group will
be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning a
family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those that,
...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People could find
out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get passed by,
because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already find
going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper on an
airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve extensive
travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it
will open up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative'
ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like
Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative
nature, like camping, hiking, or what-have-you. Misc.kids.vacation will
offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those who
would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before there
was Disneyland, there were families and those families took vacations <grin>.
Misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts
of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings in
the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people with
many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions which go on
in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal to
noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand. Misc.kids.vacation
is a natural extension of that environment
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org>
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com>
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca>
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com>
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au>
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net>
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com>
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au>
Administrative contact address: misc-kids-family-life-moderator@gweep.ca
Article submission address: misc-kids-family-life@gweep.ca
END MODERATOR INFO.
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose. Do *not* distribute this CFV; instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.
This is a public vote: All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post. The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.
At most one vote is allowed per person or per account. Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.
Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist). Votes from nonexistent
accounts or with munged, spam-blocked, or undeliverable addresses are
invalid and will NOT be counted.
Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <dave@technopagan.org>
HOW TO VOTE:
Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts. Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!
Fill in the ballot as shown below. Please provide your real name
(or established Usenet handle) and indicate your desired vote in the
appropriate locations inside the ballot.
Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
[ CANCEL ] example.cancellation
DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.
When finished, MAIL the vote to <nanabvote@technopagan.org>
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.
Votes mailed to any other email address, including that of the votetaker,
will NOT be counted.
If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem. You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.
If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at
http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.
NOTE: A YES vote for misc.kids.family-life is a vote to CREATE the
group. A YES vote for misc.kids.consumers or misc.kids.vacation is a
vote to REMOVE those groups.
======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: misc.kids-reorg2
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot [MK-42-1] (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Established
| Usenet handles are also acceptable. Place ONLY your name (ie. do NOT
| include your e-mail address or any other information; ONLY your name)
| after the colon on the following line:
Voter Name:
| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
Your Vote Newsgroup
--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
[ ] misc.kids.family-life (CREATE)
[ ] misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE)
[ ] misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE)
======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============
DISTRIBUTION:
Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
alt.infertility.parenting
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.twins-triplets
alt.support.single-parents
alt.support.step-parents
soc.culture.jewish.parenting
uk.people.parents
uk.people.parents.pregnancy
From usenet Wed Jun 18 04:33:49 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
Reply-To: mkvote@technopagan.org
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.vacation,misc.kids,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Subject: 2nd CFV: misc.kids.* reorganization (REVOTE)
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <1055432240.30956@isc.org>
Supersedes: <1054495845.30505@isc.org>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Expires: 23 Jun 2003 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:37:20 +0000
Lines: 596
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9342 news.groups:443333 misc.kids.vacation:12237 misc.kids:549306 misc.kids.breastfeeding:230029
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This is a REVOTE. Previous votes have been discarded due to
technical problems by another votetaker. If you voted previously,
and want your vote to count, YOU MUST VOTE AGAIN. We are all
sorry, but there is simply nothing which can be done about that. ]
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life Lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 Jun 2003.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Votetaker: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
RATIONALE: misc.kids.family-life
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of two topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the focused parenting discussions of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation will
be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these topics in
misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new misc.kids.famiy-life.
Some traffic on these topics, particularly consumers, will also continue
on misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in
the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has
been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic
>from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and
revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topical
groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have established
flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also established a
loyal contingent of posters for general parenting discussions.
Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and divide among users.
Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. A poll taken in May, 2002, indicated
that many topics are inseparable and others are incompatible for reasons
particular to the users and the community style. It was also found in
that study that community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in groups
with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the
next group away from known sources of help and support. Some remain in
multiple groups along the life span in order to share insight with other
posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic discussions
occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting style
evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate. Opening
those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion
to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most
comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter out
trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't mind
flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to overlook
noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic
levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made possible by
requiring parenting content in initial posts. Misc.kids.family-life
represents users who would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where topic is self-regulated. Moderation would reject spam and
blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries
78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from around
1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500. Misc.kids.moderated
constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the
hierarchy. General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which
averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day
since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has
discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is still a problem.
More than half of the respondents use more than one misc.kids.* group.
More than half of those subscribing to multiple groups were dissatisfied
with the low traffic and parenting content restrictions in
misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the respondents would consider
using a new lightly moderated group. The survey was posted to all
groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info)
and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids
or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find
on USENET. A poll taken following the first RFD in September of 2002
indicated that most users generally approved of the name choice and
preferred that the moderated tag be left off. Posts from new users not
currently posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who
would prefer a wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy,
users who are not happy with current misc.kids groups, and some
returning former misc.kids hierarchy users are the foundation of
expected traffic.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic space
flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to deal with the
possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in misc.kids.consumers
decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling taken
(5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1,
6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two
advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled
10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of
those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of
misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently
conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to
avoid confusion and duplication.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.vacation
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation,
travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject
"Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As vacation
discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range of
topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, or discriminate against other posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks,
posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any other person,
posts that include personal information about other users without their
expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (attempts from outside the community
to provoke all or particular members of the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected based on the
number of groups and the groups included. See the moderation policy for
requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter and
moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also provides
technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter. A mailing
list is maintained for policy board discussions and to complete policy
board functions. Members may leave the policy board, but must serve a
moderator term to return. Policy board members must resign in order to
run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period of
candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal that
reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected through
emergency elections serve until the next annual election following their
election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order to
qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated
in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. Moderator candidates
volunteer during the 14 day "period of candidacy." The policy board
posts a short description of each candidate at the end of the period of
candidacy. The "voting period" begins one week after the period of
candidacy and continues for 14 days. In order to vote a user must have
posted directly (not cross posted in) to the group at least two times
within the previous six months AND/OR have registered with the
robomoderation software prior to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is
posted monthly to encourage users to qualify to vote. Voting users may
vote for as many candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board
at the uppermost limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes
(minimum of 15) are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating
to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with [MOD] in order
to call the attention of the community. If the assessment indicates a
need to make changes to the charter or moderation policy, the policy
board leads a public discussion lasting 21 days, presents up to three
plausible solutions, and conducts a vote. Votes are collected by the
policy board for 14 days. In order to vote in a policy assessment
change, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. If at least 25 votes are cast on
a given change, and at least 75% of those votes favor that change, the
moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote of
no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to begin
a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period, anyone
may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by a
vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number of
moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can request
a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (for
example, fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group)
and the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to robomoderation software until the moderation team is
functioning. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light (or
"caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the charter.
A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If the first post
is borderline with respect to the charter standards or is cross posted,
the moderators may delay advancing the poster to green light status. A
poster whose first post is fully in accordance with the charter normally
advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use a
consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When more than 50% of the moderators agree that a post from a green
light user violates the charter, the moderators send a warning about
posting guidelines and the implications of hand moderation, including
the slow appearance of posts. If a green light user receives three
warnings in one month or develops a pattern of receiving two warnings
each month for at least three months, the moderators put the user on red
light (or "stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user which
obviously violates the charter (and is rejected) can put that user on
red light status. In extreme cases, any moderator may place a poster on
temporary red light status for 24 hours, but the majority (more than
50%) of moderators must agree to retain a poster on red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of on-charter posting. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status that all
their posts are hand-moderated. Posters on red light status may request
a review of their status after one month of hand moderation, but remain
on red light status until they develop a pattern of on-charter posting.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts from yellow light users for hand moderation.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts identified
as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
>from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and rejects
other posts from which such material has been removed, or refers them
for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small binaries are
allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts from red light status posters for hand moderation.
9. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall
into a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the
group and/or protect the moderators (for example: a website begins
dumping large quantities of messages into the moderation queue).
10.rejects posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the charter.
6. reject off-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
8. approve on-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all received posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group will
be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning a
family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those that,
...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People could find
out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get passed by,
because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already find
going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper on an
airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve extensive
travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it
will open up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative'
ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like
Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative
nature, like camping, hiking, or what-have-you. Misc.kids.vacation will
offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those who
would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before there
was Disneyland, there were families and those families took vacations <grin>.
Misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts
of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings in
the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people with
many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions which go on
in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal to
noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand. Misc.kids.vacation
is a natural extension of that environment
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org>
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com>
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca>
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com>
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au>
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net>
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com>
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au>
Administrative contact address: misc-kids-family-life-moderator@gweep.ca
Article submission address: misc-kids-family-life@gweep.ca
END MODERATOR INFO.
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose. Do *not* distribute this CFV; instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.
This is a public vote: All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post. The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.
At most one vote is allowed per person or per account. Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.
Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist). Votes from nonexistent
accounts or with munged, spam-blocked, or undeliverable addresses are
invalid and will NOT be counted.
Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <dave@technopagan.org>
HOW TO VOTE:
Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts. Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!
Fill in the ballot as shown below. Please provide your real name
(or established Usenet handle) and indicate your desired vote in the
appropriate locations inside the ballot.
Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
[ CANCEL ] example.cancellation
DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.
When finished, MAIL the vote to <nanabvote@technopagan.org>
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.
Votes mailed to any other email address, including that of the votetaker,
will NOT be counted.
If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem. You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.
If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at
http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.
NOTE: A YES vote for misc.kids.family-life is a vote to CREATE the
group. A YES vote for misc.kids.consumers or misc.kids.vacation is a
vote to REMOVE those groups.
======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: misc.kids-reorg2
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot [MK-42-2] (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Established
| Usenet handles are also acceptable. Place ONLY your name (ie. do NOT
| include your e-mail address or any other information; ONLY your name)
| after the colon on the following line:
Voter Name:
| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
Your Vote Newsgroup
--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
[ ] misc.kids.family-life (CREATE)
[ ] misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE)
[ ] misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE)
======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============
DISTRIBUTION:
This CFV will be posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids.vacation
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.moderated
Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
alt.infertility.parenting
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.twins-triplets
alt.support.single-parents
alt.support.step-parents
soc.culture.jewish.parenting
uk.people.parents
uk.people.parents.pregnancy
From usenet Wed Jun 18 04:33:50 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
Reply-To: mkvote@technopagan.org
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,misc.kids.computer,misc.kids.consumers,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.pregnancy
Subject: 2nd CFV: misc.kids.* reorganization (REVOTE)
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <1055432324.30967@isc.org>
Supersedes: <1054495973.30516@isc.org>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Expires: 23 Jun 2003 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:38:44 +0000
Lines: 596
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9343 misc.kids.computer:22120 misc.kids.consumers:7841 misc.kids.health:120829 misc.kids.pregnancy:684074
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group misc.kids.family-life
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ Note: This is a REVOTE. Previous votes have been discarded due to
technical problems by another votetaker. If you voted previously,
and want your vote to count, YOU MUST VOTE AGAIN. We are all
sorry, but there is simply nothing which can be done about that. ]
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life Lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 Jun 2003.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Votetaker: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
RATIONALE: misc.kids.family-life
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of two topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the focused parenting discussions of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation will
be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these topics in
misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new misc.kids.famiy-life.
Some traffic on these topics, particularly consumers, will also continue
on misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in
the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has
been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic
>from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and
revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topical
groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have established
flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also established a
loyal contingent of posters for general parenting discussions.
Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and divide among users.
Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. A poll taken in May, 2002, indicated
that many topics are inseparable and others are incompatible for reasons
particular to the users and the community style. It was also found in
that study that community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in groups
with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the
next group away from known sources of help and support. Some remain in
multiple groups along the life span in order to share insight with other
posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic discussions
occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting style
evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate. Opening
those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion
to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most
comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter out
trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't mind
flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to overlook
noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic
levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made possible by
requiring parenting content in initial posts. Misc.kids.family-life
represents users who would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where topic is self-regulated. Moderation would reject spam and
blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries
78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from around
1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500. Misc.kids.moderated
constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the
hierarchy. General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which
averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day
since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has
discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is still a problem.
More than half of the respondents use more than one misc.kids.* group.
More than half of those subscribing to multiple groups were dissatisfied
with the low traffic and parenting content restrictions in
misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the respondents would consider
using a new lightly moderated group. The survey was posted to all
groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info)
and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids
or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find
on USENET. A poll taken following the first RFD in September of 2002
indicated that most users generally approved of the name choice and
preferred that the moderated tag be left off. Posts from new users not
currently posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who
would prefer a wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy,
users who are not happy with current misc.kids groups, and some
returning former misc.kids hierarchy users are the foundation of
expected traffic.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic space
flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to deal with the
possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in misc.kids.consumers
decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling taken
(5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1,
6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two
advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled
10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of
those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of
misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently
conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to
avoid confusion and duplication.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.vacation
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation,
travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject
"Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As vacation
discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range of
topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, or discriminate against other posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks,
posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any other person,
posts that include personal information about other users without their
expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (attempts from outside the community
to provoke all or particular members of the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected based on the
number of groups and the groups included. See the moderation policy for
requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter and
moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also provides
technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter. A mailing
list is maintained for policy board discussions and to complete policy
board functions. Members may leave the policy board, but must serve a
moderator term to return. Policy board members must resign in order to
run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period of
candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal that
reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected through
emergency elections serve until the next annual election following their
election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order to
qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated
in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. Moderator candidates
volunteer during the 14 day "period of candidacy." The policy board
posts a short description of each candidate at the end of the period of
candidacy. The "voting period" begins one week after the period of
candidacy and continues for 14 days. In order to vote a user must have
posted directly (not cross posted in) to the group at least two times
within the previous six months AND/OR have registered with the
robomoderation software prior to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is
posted monthly to encourage users to qualify to vote. Voting users may
vote for as many candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board
at the uppermost limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes
(minimum of 15) are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating
to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with [MOD] in order
to call the attention of the community. If the assessment indicates a
need to make changes to the charter or moderation policy, the policy
board leads a public discussion lasting 21 days, presents up to three
plausible solutions, and conducts a vote. Votes are collected by the
policy board for 14 days. In order to vote in a policy assessment
change, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. If at least 25 votes are cast on
a given change, and at least 75% of those votes favor that change, the
moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote of
no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to begin
a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period, anyone
may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by a
vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number of
moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can request
a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (for
example, fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group)
and the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to robomoderation software until the moderation team is
functioning. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light (or
"caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the charter.
A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If the first post
is borderline with respect to the charter standards or is cross posted,
the moderators may delay advancing the poster to green light status. A
poster whose first post is fully in accordance with the charter normally
advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use a
consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When more than 50% of the moderators agree that a post from a green
light user violates the charter, the moderators send a warning about
posting guidelines and the implications of hand moderation, including
the slow appearance of posts. If a green light user receives three
warnings in one month or develops a pattern of receiving two warnings
each month for at least three months, the moderators put the user on red
light (or "stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user which
obviously violates the charter (and is rejected) can put that user on
red light status. In extreme cases, any moderator may place a poster on
temporary red light status for 24 hours, but the majority (more than
50%) of moderators must agree to retain a poster on red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of on-charter posting. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status that all
their posts are hand-moderated. Posters on red light status may request
a review of their status after one month of hand moderation, but remain
on red light status until they develop a pattern of on-charter posting.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts from yellow light users for hand moderation.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts identified
as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
>from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and rejects
other posts from which such material has been removed, or refers them
for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small binaries are
allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts from red light status posters for hand moderation.
9. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall
into a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the
group and/or protect the moderators (for example: a website begins
dumping large quantities of messages into the moderation queue).
10.rejects posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the charter.
6. reject off-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
8. approve on-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all received posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group will
be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning a
family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those that,
...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People could find
out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get passed by,
because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already find
going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper on an
airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve extensive
travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it
will open up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative'
ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like
Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative
nature, like camping, hiking, or what-have-you. Misc.kids.vacation will
offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those who
would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before there
was Disneyland, there were families and those families took vacations <grin>.
Misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts
of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings in
the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people with
many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions which go on
in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal to
noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand. Misc.kids.vacation
is a natural extension of that environment
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org>
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com>
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca>
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com>
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au>
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net>
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com>
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au>
Administrative contact address: misc-kids-family-life-moderator@gweep.ca
Article submission address: misc-kids-family-life@gweep.ca
END MODERATOR INFO.
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose. Do *not* distribute this CFV; instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.
This is a public vote: All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post. The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.
At most one vote is allowed per person or per account. Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.
Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist). Votes from nonexistent
accounts or with munged, spam-blocked, or undeliverable addresses are
invalid and will NOT be counted.
Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <dave@technopagan.org>
HOW TO VOTE:
Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts. Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!
Fill in the ballot as shown below. Please provide your real name
(or established Usenet handle) and indicate your desired vote in the
appropriate locations inside the ballot.
Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
[ CANCEL ] example.cancellation
DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.
When finished, MAIL the vote to <nanabvote@technopagan.org>
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.
Votes mailed to any other email address, including that of the votetaker,
will NOT be counted.
If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem. You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.
If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at
http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.
NOTE: A YES vote for misc.kids.family-life is a vote to CREATE the
group. A YES vote for misc.kids.consumers or misc.kids.vacation is a
vote to REMOVE those groups.
======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: misc.kids-reorg2
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot [MK-42-2] (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Established
| Usenet handles are also acceptable. Place ONLY your name (ie. do NOT
| include your e-mail address or any other information; ONLY your name)
| after the colon on the following line:
Voter Name:
| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
Your Vote Newsgroup
--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
[ ] misc.kids.family-life (CREATE)
[ ] misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE)
[ ] misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE)
======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============
DISTRIBUTION:
This CFV will be posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids.vacation
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.moderated
Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
alt.infertility.parenting
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.twins-triplets
alt.support.single-parents
alt.support.step-parents
soc.culture.jewish.parenting
uk.people.parents
uk.people.parents.pregnancy
From usenet Mon Jun 23 19:10:05 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.vacation,misc.kids,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Subject: RESULT: misc.kids.* reorganization (REVOTE): 1 pass, 2 fail
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1056394977.5771@isc.org>
Supersedes: <1054495845.30503@isc.org>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:02:57 -0700
X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP news.announce.newgroups
iD8DBQE+907iXMotZRinPKkRAl76AJsEB2VmgN/N5tGuznoBrs57A9L7/ACggO1I
Qs6WJNjsrLZW6MeynhOSIZk=
=kC2l
Lines: 671
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9349 news.groups:443691 misc.kids.vacation:12246 misc.kids:550856 misc.kids.breastfeeding:231161
RESULT
moderated group misc.kids.family-life fails 111:38
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids) passes 118:18
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids) fails 109:23
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
111 38 : Yes No : No : misc.kids.family-life (CREATE)
118 18 : Yes Yes : Yes : misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE)
109 23 : Yes No : No : misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE)
7 invalid votes
[ Note: This was a REVOTE. Previous votes have been discarded due to
technical problems by another votetaker. ]
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life Lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 22 Jun 2003.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the
proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Votetaker: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
RATIONALE: misc.kids.family-life
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of two topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the focused parenting discussions of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation will
be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these topics in
misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new misc.kids.famiy-life.
Some traffic on these topics, particularly consumers, will also continue
on misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in
the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has
been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic
>from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and
revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topical
groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have established
flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also established a
loyal contingent of posters for general parenting discussions.
Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and divide among users.
Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. A poll taken in May, 2002, indicated
that many topics are inseparable and others are incompatible for reasons
particular to the users and the community style. It was also found in
that study that community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in groups
with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the
next group away from known sources of help and support. Some remain in
multiple groups along the life span in order to share insight with other
posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic discussions
occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting style
evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate. Opening
those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion
to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most
comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter out
trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't mind
flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to overlook
noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic
levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made possible by
requiring parenting content in initial posts. Misc.kids.family-life
represents users who would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where topic is self-regulated. Moderation would reject spam and
blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries
78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from around
1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500. Misc.kids.moderated
constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the
hierarchy. General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which
averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day
since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has
discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is still a problem.
More than half of the respondents use more than one misc.kids.* group.
More than half of those subscribing to multiple groups were dissatisfied
with the low traffic and parenting content restrictions in
misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the respondents would consider
using a new lightly moderated group. The survey was posted to all
groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info)
and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids
or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find
on USENET. A poll taken following the first RFD in September of 2002
indicated that most users generally approved of the name choice and
preferred that the moderated tag be left off. Posts from new users not
currently posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who
would prefer a wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy,
users who are not happy with current misc.kids groups, and some
returning former misc.kids hierarchy users are the foundation of
expected traffic.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic space
flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to deal with the
possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in misc.kids.consumers
decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling taken
(5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1,
6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two
advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled
10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of
those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of
misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently
conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to
avoid confusion and duplication.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.vacation
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation,
travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject
"Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As vacation
discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range of
topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, or discriminate against other posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks,
posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any other person,
posts that include personal information about other users without their
expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (attempts from outside the community
to provoke all or particular members of the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected based on the
number of groups and the groups included. See the moderation policy for
requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter and
moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also provides
technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter. A mailing
list is maintained for policy board discussions and to complete policy
board functions. Members may leave the policy board, but must serve a
moderator term to return. Policy board members must resign in order to
run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period of
candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal that
reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected through
emergency elections serve until the next annual election following their
election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order to
qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated
in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. Moderator candidates
volunteer during the 14 day "period of candidacy." The policy board
posts a short description of each candidate at the end of the period of
candidacy. The "voting period" begins one week after the period of
candidacy and continues for 14 days. In order to vote a user must have
posted directly (not cross posted in) to the group at least two times
within the previous six months AND/OR have registered with the
robomoderation software prior to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is
posted monthly to encourage users to qualify to vote. Voting users may
vote for as many candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board
at the uppermost limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes
(minimum of 15) are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating
to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with [MOD] in order
to call the attention of the community. If the assessment indicates a
need to make changes to the charter or moderation policy, the policy
board leads a public discussion lasting 21 days, presents up to three
plausible solutions, and conducts a vote. Votes are collected by the
policy board for 14 days. In order to vote in a policy assessment
change, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. If at least 25 votes are cast on
a given change, and at least 75% of those votes favor that change, the
moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote of
no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to begin
a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period, anyone
may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by a
vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number of
moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can request
a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (for
example, fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group)
and the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to robomoderation software until the moderation team is
functioning. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light (or
"caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the charter.
A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If the first post
is borderline with respect to the charter standards or is cross posted,
the moderators may delay advancing the poster to green light status. A
poster whose first post is fully in accordance with the charter normally
advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use a
consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When more than 50% of the moderators agree that a post from a green
light user violates the charter, the moderators send a warning about
posting guidelines and the implications of hand moderation, including
the slow appearance of posts. If a green light user receives three
warnings in one month or develops a pattern of receiving two warnings
each month for at least three months, the moderators put the user on red
light (or "stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user which
obviously violates the charter (and is rejected) can put that user on
red light status. In extreme cases, any moderator may place a poster on
temporary red light status for 24 hours, but the majority (more than
50%) of moderators must agree to retain a poster on red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of on-charter posting. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status that all
their posts are hand-moderated. Posters on red light status may request
a review of their status after one month of hand moderation, but remain
on red light status until they develop a pattern of on-charter posting.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts from yellow light users for hand moderation.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts identified
as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
>from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and rejects
other posts from which such material has been removed, or refers them
for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small binaries are
allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts from red light status posters for hand moderation.
9. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall
into a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the
group and/or protect the moderators (for example: a website begins
dumping large quantities of messages into the moderation queue).
10.rejects posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the charter.
6. reject off-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
8. approve on-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all received posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group will
be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning a
family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those that,
...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People could find
out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get passed by,
because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already find
going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper on an
airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve extensive
travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it
will open up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative'
ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like
Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative
nature, like camping, hiking, or what-have-you. Misc.kids.vacation will
offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those who
would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before there
was Disneyland, there were families and those families took vacations <grin>.
Misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts
of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings in
the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people with
many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions which go on
in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal to
noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand. Misc.kids.vacation
is a natural extension of that environment
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org>
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com>
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca>
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com>
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au>
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net>
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com>
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au>
Administrative contact address: misc-kids-family-life-moderator@gweep.ca
Article submission address: misc-kids-family-life@gweep.ca
END MODERATOR INFO.
misc.kids-reorg2 Final Vote Ack
misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE) -----+
misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE) ----+|
misc.kids.family-life (CREATE) ---+||
|||
aahz~pobox.com Aahz ---
acarroll~nyc.rr.com Alena Carroll YYY
alkee~ihug.co.nz alkee YYY
allyphoe~mailbolt.com Phoebe Roberts YYY
Amy.Uhrbach~dictaphone.com Amy Uhrbach NNN
annporter~charter.net Ann Porter NYY
bafoster~mindspring.com Barbara Foster Williams YYY
bantyacidjazz~yahoo.com Banty N--
barbschaller~earthlink.net Barb Schaller YYY
bdewitt2~cfl.rr.com Aula DeWitt YYY
bdw~cfl.rr.com Bill DeWitt YYY
bengtl2.net~telia.com Bengt Larsson Y--
bheavlin~stat.stanford.edu B. Heavlin YYY
biow~ezmort.com Christopher Biow -YY
bmailman~sfo.com Brian Mailman ---
bouvin~daimi.au.dk Niels Olof Bouvin YYY
brian~gweep.ca Brian Edmonds Y--
bsfsandy~yahoo.com Sandy Farley NYY
cardiologist~heartmdphd.com Andrew B. Chung YYY
caroline~canadiansink.ca Caroline LeBel YYY
cdsmith~twu.net Chris Smith Y--
clm~pdq.net Catherine Moore NYY
clvt~optusnet.com.au Cheryl van Tienhoven YYY
cpetersky~yahoo.com Claire Petersky -YY
cshardie~austin.rr.com Suzanne Lander YYY
ctuggle1~ccrtc.com Sara YYY
cuhulain_98~yahoo.com The Ranger YYY
c_ish~mindspring.com Chris Ish YYY
D.Roberts~isu.usyd.edu.au Di Roberts YYY
dana~netherton.net Dana Netherton NY-
danilova~sbcglobal.net Cheryl S. YYY
david~farrar.com David Farrar YYY
daye~australia.edu Daye YYY
dbigelo~hotmail.com Dave Bigelo YYY
dc~panix.com David W. Crawford NYN
debralr~jc.com.au Debbie YYY
denny~datkin.net Denny Atkin YYY
devnull~vianet.ca Trevor Tymchuk YYY
dfrost~maths.tcd.ie Dermot Frost YNN
drsweeet~sbcglobal.net Bethany Sturgill YYY
dutchwa~optusnet.com.au Troy van Tienhoven YYY
Ekkehard~Uthke.de Ekkehard Uthke NYY
ellis~spinics.net Rick Ellis NNN
enigma~mv.com lee YYY
epthomas~comcast.net Beth Thomas Y--
ernestcline~mindspring.com Ernest Cline -Y-
e_larson~mindspring.com Erika = YYY
franck.thales~wanadoo.fr Franck T. YY-
fred~mail.bytesforall.org Frederick Noronha YYN
fungus~OCF.Berkeley.EDU Hank Fung NNN
fwbrown~bellsouth.net Wayne Brown -NN
fwtexas4~aol.com Jerry Price N--
geri.clark~earthlink.net Geri Clark YYY
ggw~wolves.homeip.net Gregory Woodbury YYY
glaesemann1~llnl.gov Kurt Glaesemann YYY
glaesemann~worldnet.att.net Karen Glaesemann YYY
gprrspw~mindspring.com G.P. Ryan NYY
Grovemom3~aol.com Lois Grove YYY
guavaln~yahoo.com Barbara (Circe) F. YYY
heather~operamail.com Heather W YYY
Hillary~Hillary.net Hillary Israeli YYY
hugo.van.der.eerden~hccnet.nl Hugo van der Eerden YYY
idontmind~hotmail.com lyn glover NNN
info~rdj.com.au otterbot YYY
iowacookiemom~aol.com Dawn Price N--
j.v.ashby~rl.ac.uk John Ashby YYY
Jarkat2002~aol.com Kat YYY
jeanpeters~eircom.net Iuil Y--
jeffutz~earthlink.net Jeff Utz YYY
jelaineb~aol.com Jennifer Bertrand NYY
jenne_j~yahoo.com J. Jones YYY
jennifer~bernie.interbaun.com Jennifer YYY
jessical~pobox.com Jessica Allan Lavarnway NYY
jimrtex~pipeline.com Jim Riley -YY
jmonealwatts~hotmail.com Johnny O'Neal-Watts YYY
jnews~prbh.org Jacob News YNN
john1~TheWorld.com Fred Cherry NNN
jonealwatts~hotmail.com Jennifer O'Neal-Watts N--
juliew~jandjw.com Julie Wiedemeier YYY
kamayer~pacbell.net Kate Mayer Y--
kathy~scconsult.com Kathy Cole YYY
katiej_1958~yahoo.com Kathryn M. Jaques Y--
kerinda~ix.netcom.com Victoria YYY
kgkast~unity.ncsu.edu Karen YYY
kimosabe~shaw.ca sharon fitzgerald Y--
koedyk.p~ihug.co.nz Andrea K (Taniwha grrl) YYY
koolaidelunch~earthlink.net J. Johnas YYY
ladyglutter~netzero.net Chris Chandler YYY
latreenwashington~yahoo.com LaTreen Washington NNN
lfaussone.ics90~gtalumni.org Laura Faussone YYY
lhunt6~ford.com Lisa Hunt YYY
lisabell_98~yahoo.com Lisabell YYY
lochlain98~attbi.com Dizzysmama/Angela YYY
lpbrewer~proaxis.com Larry Brewer YYY
malinkan~home.se Malin Nilsson Y--
mamadin1507~yahoo.com Ilse YYY
mands~indigo.ie Marie & Stephen McGee YYY
margalitc~yahoo.com Marjorie Peskin NNN
max~alcyone.com Erik Max Francis ---
mbwagne~emory.edu Mary Wagner YYY
Meanmommy711~aol.com Candace Lawrence NNN
mickeydo64~hotmail.com Michelle George YYY
mjenks~annex.com Meghan Rodberg NYY
mklau598~sbcglobal.net Margie Klausler YYY
molly~fisher-studio.com Molly Fisher YYY
Momisty~webtv.net misty arensdorf YYY
momto3boys~eudoramail.com Tracy Murphy NNN
mossmans~sympatico.ca Sheila Mossman YYY
mpaisley~optusnet.com.au Marcelle Paisley Y--
nafig_blin~hotmail.com Eduard Petrov NYY
nancyp1~comcast.net Nancy Pierro YYY
ncooper~wahoo.sjsu.edu Noreen Cooper YYY
nfitz~sentex.net Nicholas Fitzpatrick -YY
NLBader63~hotmail.com Nancy Bader Y--
nonpareil_99~yahoo.com Janice Ness YYY
nsalkin~optonline.net Nina Salkin NNN
nymnmajean~yahoo.com Jean Guttman NYY
pan~syix.com Pan NNN
penny~gaines.net Penny Gaines -Y-
pjm~spe.com Patrick May NNN
psmyth~gmx.net Peter Smyth NYY
radams~callatg.com Rhiannon M. Adams Y--
ralig~netzero.net Teresa Chanderl YYY
randeep_sihng~hotmail.com Randeep Sihng YYY
rbarrett~one-one.net Richard Barrett YYY
rick~bcm.tmc.edu Richard H Miller NYY
rjuliano~cfl.rr.com Bob Juliano YYY
rnetherton~operamail.com Robin Netherton NYN
robynk~primushost.com Robyn Kozierok NYN
roger~schlafly.net Roger Schlafly NYY
rsanborn~tiwoundcare.com Robin Sanborn Y--
s.scales~worldnet.att.net Stephanie Scales YYN
sarah.horton~ntlworld.com Sarah horton Y--
saraw~cd.chalmers.se Sara Wranker Y--
sbfaulds~ihug.co.nz Stuart Brodie YNN
ScottLWI~netscape.net Scott Lindstrom NYY
seanang_oz~hotmail.com Kerry McLennan YNN
shrao~nyx.net Shrisha Rao YYY
sigtoto~yahoo.com Dorothy Sacks YYY
slowly~hotmail.com Robyn Beveridge YYY
smlucas~flashmail.com Steven Lucas YYY
smw~pixel.citadel.org Steve Williams YYY
sntwoods~yahoo.com Nina Woods YYY
snugbug~lanset.com Laurel Ehrichs YYY
stainles~realtime.net Dwight Brown NYY
sue_r~ihug.co.nz Sue Roberts YYY
sv2~llondel.org Susan Van Valkenburg YYY
tainuiti~yahoo.com Tai NNY
taktaz~ihug.com.au Alissa YYY
tamex~mindspring.com Tamex YYY
terimcb~optonline.net Teri YYY
tfwilliams~theriver.com TFWilliams Y--
tjmc.enteract~rcn.com tjmc ---
toivo~ucs.uwa.edu.au Toivo Pedaste YYY
tom_farley~yahoo.com Tom Farley NYY
truffles~bonbon.net Brigitte Ironmonger YYY
valeriepg~aol.com Valerie Pepito Romano NYN
van.ette~inter.nl.net Robert-Jan van Ette YYY
Whiskydry31~aol.com Wendy YYY
zarah~iglide.net Cheryl Malaguti YYY
Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
buzzy_bee_mm~yahoo.co.uk Megan Montgomery (aka Buzzy Bee)
! Ack bounced
cathy~glarus.geology.washington.edu Cathy Smither
! Ack bounced
john1~world.std.com Fred Cherry
! Apparent duplicate vote (of john1~theworld.com)
mkm-noack~misckids.org
! No ballot
preternatural~hotmail.com iphigenia
! No ballot
thom6821~bellsouth.net Lee and Cindi Thompson
! No vote statement in message
wiz~verinet.com Wiz
! No ballot
From usenet Mon Jun 23 19:10:05 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.computer,misc.kids.consumers,misc.kids.health
Subject: RESULT: misc.kids.* reorganization (REVOTE): 1 pass, 2 fail
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1056395064.5780@isc.org>
Supersedes: <1054495973.30515@isc.org>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:04:24 -0700
X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP news.announce.newgroups
iD8DBQE+9084XMotZRinPKkRAj3xAJ9yZmyuZDWyhE41SC4/rm7Zy+kyeACfX4Qj
aAG42I6Srs4+v/ZZOpEhRDA=
=FYzX
Lines: 671
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9350 news.groups:443692 misc.kids.computer:22125 misc.kids.consumers:7845 misc.kids.health:121052
RESULT
moderated group misc.kids.family-life fails 111:38
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids) passes 118:18
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids) fails 109:23
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
111 38 : Yes No : No : misc.kids.family-life (CREATE)
118 18 : Yes Yes : Yes : misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE)
109 23 : Yes No : No : misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE)
7 invalid votes
[ Note: This was a REVOTE. Previous votes have been discarded due to
technical problems by another votetaker. ]
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life Lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 22 Jun 2003.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the
proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Votetaker: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
RATIONALE: misc.kids.family-life
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of two topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the focused parenting discussions of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation will
be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these topics in
misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new misc.kids.famiy-life.
Some traffic on these topics, particularly consumers, will also continue
on misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in
the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has
been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic
>from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and
revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topical
groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have established
flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also established a
loyal contingent of posters for general parenting discussions.
Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and divide among users.
Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. A poll taken in May, 2002, indicated
that many topics are inseparable and others are incompatible for reasons
particular to the users and the community style. It was also found in
that study that community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in groups
with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the
next group away from known sources of help and support. Some remain in
multiple groups along the life span in order to share insight with other
posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic discussions
occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting style
evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate. Opening
those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion
to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most
comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter out
trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't mind
flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to overlook
noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic
levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made possible by
requiring parenting content in initial posts. Misc.kids.family-life
represents users who would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where topic is self-regulated. Moderation would reject spam and
blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries
78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from around
1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500. Misc.kids.moderated
constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the
hierarchy. General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which
averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day
since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has
discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is still a problem.
More than half of the respondents use more than one misc.kids.* group.
More than half of those subscribing to multiple groups were dissatisfied
with the low traffic and parenting content restrictions in
misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the respondents would consider
using a new lightly moderated group. The survey was posted to all
groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info)
and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids
or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find
on USENET. A poll taken following the first RFD in September of 2002
indicated that most users generally approved of the name choice and
preferred that the moderated tag be left off. Posts from new users not
currently posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who
would prefer a wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy,
users who are not happy with current misc.kids groups, and some
returning former misc.kids hierarchy users are the foundation of
expected traffic.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic space
flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to deal with the
possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in misc.kids.consumers
decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling taken
(5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1,
6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two
advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled
10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of
those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of
misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently
conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to
avoid confusion and duplication.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.vacation
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation,
travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject
"Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As vacation
discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range of
topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, or discriminate against other posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks,
posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any other person,
posts that include personal information about other users without their
expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (attempts from outside the community
to provoke all or particular members of the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected based on the
number of groups and the groups included. See the moderation policy for
requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter and
moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also provides
technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter. A mailing
list is maintained for policy board discussions and to complete policy
board functions. Members may leave the policy board, but must serve a
moderator term to return. Policy board members must resign in order to
run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period of
candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal that
reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected through
emergency elections serve until the next annual election following their
election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order to
qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated
in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. Moderator candidates
volunteer during the 14 day "period of candidacy." The policy board
posts a short description of each candidate at the end of the period of
candidacy. The "voting period" begins one week after the period of
candidacy and continues for 14 days. In order to vote a user must have
posted directly (not cross posted in) to the group at least two times
within the previous six months AND/OR have registered with the
robomoderation software prior to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is
posted monthly to encourage users to qualify to vote. Voting users may
vote for as many candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board
at the uppermost limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes
(minimum of 15) are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating
to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with [MOD] in order
to call the attention of the community. If the assessment indicates a
need to make changes to the charter or moderation policy, the policy
board leads a public discussion lasting 21 days, presents up to three
plausible solutions, and conducts a vote. Votes are collected by the
policy board for 14 days. In order to vote in a policy assessment
change, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. If at least 25 votes are cast on
a given change, and at least 75% of those votes favor that change, the
moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote of
no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to begin
a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period, anyone
may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by a
vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number of
moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can request
a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (for
example, fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group)
and the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to robomoderation software until the moderation team is
functioning. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light (or
"caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the charter.
A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If the first post
is borderline with respect to the charter standards or is cross posted,
the moderators may delay advancing the poster to green light status. A
poster whose first post is fully in accordance with the charter normally
advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use a
consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When more than 50% of the moderators agree that a post from a green
light user violates the charter, the moderators send a warning about
posting guidelines and the implications of hand moderation, including
the slow appearance of posts. If a green light user receives three
warnings in one month or develops a pattern of receiving two warnings
each month for at least three months, the moderators put the user on red
light (or "stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user which
obviously violates the charter (and is rejected) can put that user on
red light status. In extreme cases, any moderator may place a poster on
temporary red light status for 24 hours, but the majority (more than
50%) of moderators must agree to retain a poster on red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of on-charter posting. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status that all
their posts are hand-moderated. Posters on red light status may request
a review of their status after one month of hand moderation, but remain
on red light status until they develop a pattern of on-charter posting.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts from yellow light users for hand moderation.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts identified
as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
>from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and rejects
other posts from which such material has been removed, or refers them
for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small binaries are
allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts from red light status posters for hand moderation.
9. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall
into a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the
group and/or protect the moderators (for example: a website begins
dumping large quantities of messages into the moderation queue).
10.rejects posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the charter.
6. reject off-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
8. approve on-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all received posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group will
be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning a
family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those that,
...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People could find
out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get passed by,
because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already find
going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper on an
airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve extensive
travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it
will open up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative'
ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like
Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative
nature, like camping, hiking, or what-have-you. Misc.kids.vacation will
offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those who
would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before there
was Disneyland, there were families and those families took vacations <grin>.
Misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts
of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings in
the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people with
many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions which go on
in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal to
noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand. Misc.kids.vacation
is a natural extension of that environment
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org>
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com>
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca>
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com>
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au>
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net>
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com>
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au>
Administrative contact address: misc-kids-family-life-moderator@gweep.ca
Article submission address: misc-kids-family-life@gweep.ca
END MODERATOR INFO.
misc.kids-reorg2 Final Vote Ack
misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE) -----+
misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE) ----+|
misc.kids.family-life (CREATE) ---+||
|||
aahz~pobox.com Aahz ---
acarroll~nyc.rr.com Alena Carroll YYY
alkee~ihug.co.nz alkee YYY
allyphoe~mailbolt.com Phoebe Roberts YYY
Amy.Uhrbach~dictaphone.com Amy Uhrbach NNN
annporter~charter.net Ann Porter NYY
bafoster~mindspring.com Barbara Foster Williams YYY
bantyacidjazz~yahoo.com Banty N--
barbschaller~earthlink.net Barb Schaller YYY
bdewitt2~cfl.rr.com Aula DeWitt YYY
bdw~cfl.rr.com Bill DeWitt YYY
bengtl2.net~telia.com Bengt Larsson Y--
bheavlin~stat.stanford.edu B. Heavlin YYY
biow~ezmort.com Christopher Biow -YY
bmailman~sfo.com Brian Mailman ---
bouvin~daimi.au.dk Niels Olof Bouvin YYY
brian~gweep.ca Brian Edmonds Y--
bsfsandy~yahoo.com Sandy Farley NYY
cardiologist~heartmdphd.com Andrew B. Chung YYY
caroline~canadiansink.ca Caroline LeBel YYY
cdsmith~twu.net Chris Smith Y--
clm~pdq.net Catherine Moore NYY
clvt~optusnet.com.au Cheryl van Tienhoven YYY
cpetersky~yahoo.com Claire Petersky -YY
cshardie~austin.rr.com Suzanne Lander YYY
ctuggle1~ccrtc.com Sara YYY
cuhulain_98~yahoo.com The Ranger YYY
c_ish~mindspring.com Chris Ish YYY
D.Roberts~isu.usyd.edu.au Di Roberts YYY
dana~netherton.net Dana Netherton NY-
danilova~sbcglobal.net Cheryl S. YYY
david~farrar.com David Farrar YYY
daye~australia.edu Daye YYY
dbigelo~hotmail.com Dave Bigelo YYY
dc~panix.com David W. Crawford NYN
debralr~jc.com.au Debbie YYY
denny~datkin.net Denny Atkin YYY
devnull~vianet.ca Trevor Tymchuk YYY
dfrost~maths.tcd.ie Dermot Frost YNN
drsweeet~sbcglobal.net Bethany Sturgill YYY
dutchwa~optusnet.com.au Troy van Tienhoven YYY
Ekkehard~Uthke.de Ekkehard Uthke NYY
ellis~spinics.net Rick Ellis NNN
enigma~mv.com lee YYY
epthomas~comcast.net Beth Thomas Y--
ernestcline~mindspring.com Ernest Cline -Y-
e_larson~mindspring.com Erika = YYY
franck.thales~wanadoo.fr Franck T. YY-
fred~mail.bytesforall.org Frederick Noronha YYN
fungus~OCF.Berkeley.EDU Hank Fung NNN
fwbrown~bellsouth.net Wayne Brown -NN
fwtexas4~aol.com Jerry Price N--
geri.clark~earthlink.net Geri Clark YYY
ggw~wolves.homeip.net Gregory Woodbury YYY
glaesemann1~llnl.gov Kurt Glaesemann YYY
glaesemann~worldnet.att.net Karen Glaesemann YYY
gprrspw~mindspring.com G.P. Ryan NYY
Grovemom3~aol.com Lois Grove YYY
guavaln~yahoo.com Barbara (Circe) F. YYY
heather~operamail.com Heather W YYY
Hillary~Hillary.net Hillary Israeli YYY
hugo.van.der.eerden~hccnet.nl Hugo van der Eerden YYY
idontmind~hotmail.com lyn glover NNN
info~rdj.com.au otterbot YYY
iowacookiemom~aol.com Dawn Price N--
j.v.ashby~rl.ac.uk John Ashby YYY
Jarkat2002~aol.com Kat YYY
jeanpeters~eircom.net Iuil Y--
jeffutz~earthlink.net Jeff Utz YYY
jelaineb~aol.com Jennifer Bertrand NYY
jenne_j~yahoo.com J. Jones YYY
jennifer~bernie.interbaun.com Jennifer YYY
jessical~pobox.com Jessica Allan Lavarnway NYY
jimrtex~pipeline.com Jim Riley -YY
jmonealwatts~hotmail.com Johnny O'Neal-Watts YYY
jnews~prbh.org Jacob News YNN
john1~TheWorld.com Fred Cherry NNN
jonealwatts~hotmail.com Jennifer O'Neal-Watts N--
juliew~jandjw.com Julie Wiedemeier YYY
kamayer~pacbell.net Kate Mayer Y--
kathy~scconsult.com Kathy Cole YYY
katiej_1958~yahoo.com Kathryn M. Jaques Y--
kerinda~ix.netcom.com Victoria YYY
kgkast~unity.ncsu.edu Karen YYY
kimosabe~shaw.ca sharon fitzgerald Y--
koedyk.p~ihug.co.nz Andrea K (Taniwha grrl) YYY
koolaidelunch~earthlink.net J. Johnas YYY
ladyglutter~netzero.net Chris Chandler YYY
latreenwashington~yahoo.com LaTreen Washington NNN
lfaussone.ics90~gtalumni.org Laura Faussone YYY
lhunt6~ford.com Lisa Hunt YYY
lisabell_98~yahoo.com Lisabell YYY
lochlain98~attbi.com Dizzysmama/Angela YYY
lpbrewer~proaxis.com Larry Brewer YYY
malinkan~home.se Malin Nilsson Y--
mamadin1507~yahoo.com Ilse YYY
mands~indigo.ie Marie & Stephen McGee YYY
margalitc~yahoo.com Marjorie Peskin NNN
max~alcyone.com Erik Max Francis ---
mbwagne~emory.edu Mary Wagner YYY
Meanmommy711~aol.com Candace Lawrence NNN
mickeydo64~hotmail.com Michelle George YYY
mjenks~annex.com Meghan Rodberg NYY
mklau598~sbcglobal.net Margie Klausler YYY
molly~fisher-studio.com Molly Fisher YYY
Momisty~webtv.net misty arensdorf YYY
momto3boys~eudoramail.com Tracy Murphy NNN
mossmans~sympatico.ca Sheila Mossman YYY
mpaisley~optusnet.com.au Marcelle Paisley Y--
nafig_blin~hotmail.com Eduard Petrov NYY
nancyp1~comcast.net Nancy Pierro YYY
ncooper~wahoo.sjsu.edu Noreen Cooper YYY
nfitz~sentex.net Nicholas Fitzpatrick -YY
NLBader63~hotmail.com Nancy Bader Y--
nonpareil_99~yahoo.com Janice Ness YYY
nsalkin~optonline.net Nina Salkin NNN
nymnmajean~yahoo.com Jean Guttman NYY
pan~syix.com Pan NNN
penny~gaines.net Penny Gaines -Y-
pjm~spe.com Patrick May NNN
psmyth~gmx.net Peter Smyth NYY
radams~callatg.com Rhiannon M. Adams Y--
ralig~netzero.net Teresa Chanderl YYY
randeep_sihng~hotmail.com Randeep Sihng YYY
rbarrett~one-one.net Richard Barrett YYY
rick~bcm.tmc.edu Richard H Miller NYY
rjuliano~cfl.rr.com Bob Juliano YYY
rnetherton~operamail.com Robin Netherton NYN
robynk~primushost.com Robyn Kozierok NYN
roger~schlafly.net Roger Schlafly NYY
rsanborn~tiwoundcare.com Robin Sanborn Y--
s.scales~worldnet.att.net Stephanie Scales YYN
sarah.horton~ntlworld.com Sarah horton Y--
saraw~cd.chalmers.se Sara Wranker Y--
sbfaulds~ihug.co.nz Stuart Brodie YNN
ScottLWI~netscape.net Scott Lindstrom NYY
seanang_oz~hotmail.com Kerry McLennan YNN
shrao~nyx.net Shrisha Rao YYY
sigtoto~yahoo.com Dorothy Sacks YYY
slowly~hotmail.com Robyn Beveridge YYY
smlucas~flashmail.com Steven Lucas YYY
smw~pixel.citadel.org Steve Williams YYY
sntwoods~yahoo.com Nina Woods YYY
snugbug~lanset.com Laurel Ehrichs YYY
stainles~realtime.net Dwight Brown NYY
sue_r~ihug.co.nz Sue Roberts YYY
sv2~llondel.org Susan Van Valkenburg YYY
tainuiti~yahoo.com Tai NNY
taktaz~ihug.com.au Alissa YYY
tamex~mindspring.com Tamex YYY
terimcb~optonline.net Teri YYY
tfwilliams~theriver.com TFWilliams Y--
tjmc.enteract~rcn.com tjmc ---
toivo~ucs.uwa.edu.au Toivo Pedaste YYY
tom_farley~yahoo.com Tom Farley NYY
truffles~bonbon.net Brigitte Ironmonger YYY
valeriepg~aol.com Valerie Pepito Romano NYN
van.ette~inter.nl.net Robert-Jan van Ette YYY
Whiskydry31~aol.com Wendy YYY
zarah~iglide.net Cheryl Malaguti YYY
Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
buzzy_bee_mm~yahoo.co.uk Megan Montgomery (aka Buzzy Bee)
! Ack bounced
cathy~glarus.geology.washington.edu Cathy Smither
! Ack bounced
john1~world.std.com Fred Cherry
! Apparent duplicate vote (of john1~theworld.com)
mkm-noack~misckids.org
! No ballot
preternatural~hotmail.com iphigenia
! No ballot
thom6821~bellsouth.net Lee and Cindi Thompson
! No vote statement in message
wiz~verinet.com Wiz
! No ballot
From usenet Mon Jun 23 19:10:05 2003
Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.pregnancy
Subject: RESULT: misc.kids.* reorganization (REVOTE): 1 pass, 2 fail
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1056395128.5790@isc.org>
Supersedes: <1054495973.30515@isc.org>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:05:28 -0700
X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP news.announce.newgroups
iD8DBQE+9094XMotZRinPKkRAo9xAJ4zmXqHCwrr74/vYXL3v4dgA6f+hQCgkFTr
l4NPMM6fUI9DTvAh6pHMfCY=
=DzxL
Lines: 671
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu news.announce.newgroups:9351 news.groups:443693 misc.kids.pregnancy:685143
RESULT
moderated group misc.kids.family-life fails 111:38
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids) passes 118:18
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids) fails 109:23
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
111 38 : Yes No : No : misc.kids.family-life (CREATE)
118 18 : Yes Yes : Yes : misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE)
109 23 : Yes No : No : misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE)
7 invalid votes
[ Note: This was a REVOTE. Previous votes have been discarded due to
technical problems by another votetaker. ]
[ Note: This proposal is being multi-posted, in order to reach all
affected groups, while avoiding the 5-group spam limit. ]
Newsgroups lines:
misc.kids.family-life Lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 22 Jun 2003.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the
proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
Votetaker: David E. Smith <dave@technopagan.org>
RATIONALE: misc.kids.family-life
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of two topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Misc.kids.family-life will provide a lightly moderated community to
serve posters who prefer a middle ground between the unmoderated
environment of misc.kids and the focused parenting discussions of
misc.kids.moderated. (Initial posts to misc.kids.moderated must have
parenting content for acceptance. Follow-up posts are allowed some
drift.) The traffic from misc.kids.consumers and misc.kids.vacation will
be subsumed into misc.kids, but traffic will continue on these topics in
misc.kids.moderated and be present in the new misc.kids.famiy-life.
Some traffic on these topics, particularly consumers, will also continue
on misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding.
Several solutions have been proposed through the years to resolve the
often unmanageably high volume of traffic found in misc.kids and more
recently in misc.kids.pregnancy. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in
the late 1990's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has
been addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic
>from other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and
revitalize misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topical
groups on pregnancy, breastfeeding, and health have established
flourishing communities. Misc.kids.moderated has also established a
loyal contingent of posters for general parenting discussions.
Nevertheless, topic space is difficult to define and divide among users.
Topic space dedicated to consumers and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. A poll taken in May, 2002, indicated
that many topics are inseparable and others are incompatible for reasons
particular to the users and the community style. It was also found in
that study that community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Family life covers a large span of topics from preconception to death.
Every step is of some interest to most parents. Users in the
misc.kids.* hierarchy form relationships through participation in groups
with a specific topic, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the
next group away from known sources of help and support. Some remain in
multiple groups along the life span in order to share insight with other
posters on topic. Incompatible and/or antagonistic discussions
occasionally arise as a result of contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottle-feeding, infertility problems, or homeschooling.
Community style remains the more significant issue. When posting style
evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, many users wanting to
discuss babies and toddlers directed their posts into
misc.kids.pregnancy in order to get discussion without debate. Opening
those topics back up in misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion
to debate, but the unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most
comfortable for those who have the technical background to filter out
trolls and spam that are common to parenting topic space, don't mind
flame wars and similar uncivil behavior, or are willing to overlook
noise. Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic
levels with a high signal-to-noise ratio; this is made possible by
requiring parenting content in initial posts. Misc.kids.family-life
represents users who would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where topic is self-regulated. Moderation would reject spam and
blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a relatively civil environment.
An average of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each
day. (Traffic analysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316
posts/day, misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy
posts from misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month
periods going back one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced
to the tally for misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on
number of messages returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries
78% of this traffic. Off-topic (general parenting) posts in
misc.kids.pregnancy have gone down significantly since the more recent
campaign to revitalize misc.kids. The posting rate dropped from around
1100 off-topic posts per month to around 500. Misc.kids.moderated
constitutes less than 10% of the general parenting traffic in the
hierarchy. General parenting is also found on alt.mothers, which
averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820 posts per day
since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers has
discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
We received 43 responses to our survey conducted following the most
recent campaign to move parenting and family discussion (particularly
those not relevant to pregnancy) back to misc.kids in April of 2002.
Responses were predominantly short answer and were emailed or posted.
More than half of respondents are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but high traffic is still a problem.
More than half of the respondents use more than one misc.kids.* group.
More than half of those subscribing to multiple groups were dissatisfied
with the low traffic and parenting content restrictions in
misc.kids.moderated. More than half of the respondents would consider
using a new lightly moderated group. The survey was posted to all
groups in the misc.kids hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info)
and was modified for alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family-life is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids
or misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find
on USENET. A poll taken following the first RFD in September of 2002
indicated that most users generally approved of the name choice and
preferred that the moderated tag be left off. Posts from new users not
currently posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who
would prefer a wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy,
users who are not happy with current misc.kids groups, and some
returning former misc.kids hierarchy users are the foundation of
expected traffic.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.consumers
When misc.kids.consumers was created in 1994, consumer issues appeared
to be easily split from general parenting discussions. The topic space
flows naturally in existing groups, however, and users in misc.kids,
misc.kids.moderated and misc.kids.pregancy are willing to deal with the
possible increased volume to discuss consumer issues, as opposed to
subscribing to multiple groups. Traffic in misc.kids.consumers
decreased significantly in 1998. In the sampling taken
(5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and
5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts per week (5, 8, 1,
6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling were two
advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week sampled
10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of
those 43 were cross-posted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of
misc.kids pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently
conducted in existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to
avoid confusion and duplication.
RATIONALE: misc.kids.vacation
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated, and
have thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify
misc.kids.vacation. Of three posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02,
only two of twenty-two posts in a particular thread were crossposted
into misc.kids.vacation from a discussion in misc.kids.moderated.
During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of nine posts only one post was
on-topic. The other posts consisted of four advertisements and 4
trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained the words vacation,
travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated. The subject
"Flying with a 15 month old" received eighteen responses. As vacation
discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family-life
Misc.kids.family-life is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to
provide a relatively civil forum for people to discuss a broad range of
topics related to family life. The goal of moderation is to remove
spam, eliminate blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility. The moderators do not apply topic restrictions.
1. Charter Standards
On-charter posts should have some relevance to family life. The
moderators do not apply topic restrictions, but posters are encouraged
to stay on-charter. Users may encourage ending discussions that drift
extensively.
Posts violate this charter if they:
a. denigrate, demean, or discriminate against other posters.
b. promote or defend pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or
abuse.
c. qualify as spam (examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for
sex/pornography, and multi-level marketing offers).
d. are intentionally abusive (examples: repetitive ad hominem attacks,
posts that show gross intolerance or viciously attack any other person,
posts that include personal information about other users without their
expressed permission where malice is apparent).
e. are blatantly malicious trolls (attempts from outside the community
to provoke all or particular members of the community).
f. extend discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
2. Cross posting
Cross posting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Cross posted messages may be hand moderated or rejected based on the
number of groups and the groups included. See the moderation policy for
requirements.
3. Moderators
The community elects five to 11 moderators to serve two year terms.
Moderators who have completed a two year term may run for reelection,
immediately transfer to the policy board, or step down from service.
For discussion and moderation functions, moderators utilize a mailing
list which is also available to the policy board. While one moderator
may approve any post, a simple majority (more than 50%) is required to
reject any post.
4. Policy Board
The policy board is composed of ex-moderators who have completed at
least one term and creation team members. The policy board administers
annual moderator elections, semi-annual policy assessments, charter and
moderation policy changes, and votes of no confidence. It also provides
technical assistance to moderators in applying the charter. A mailing
list is maintained for policy board discussions and to complete policy
board functions. Members may leave the policy board, but must serve a
moderator term to return. Policy board members must resign in order to
run for moderator.
5. Elections:
The policy board announces open moderator seats and administers annual
elections and emergency elections.
Annual Elections:
Moderators elected in annual elections serve a two year term. The
policy board will open the remaining two moderator seats in the first
annual election in addition to filling any seats that have been vacated.
Emergency Elections:
The policy board announces an emergency election, beginning a period of
candidacy, within one week of any moderator resignation or removal that
reduces the number of moderators below five. Moderators elected through
emergency elections serve until the next annual election following their
election.
General Election Rules:
The policy board tags all posts relating to elections with [ELECTION].
Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating to elections with
[ELECTION] in order to call the attention of the community. In order to
qualify for candidacy, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated
in a policy assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. Moderator candidates
volunteer during the 14 day "period of candidacy." The policy board
posts a short description of each candidate at the end of the period of
candidacy. The "voting period" begins one week after the period of
candidacy and continues for 14 days. In order to vote a user must have
posted directly (not cross posted in) to the group at least two times
within the previous six months AND/OR have registered with the
robomoderation software prior to the period of candidacy. A FAQ is
posted monthly to encourage users to qualify to vote. Voting users may
vote for as many candidates as they wish, keeping the moderation board
at the uppermost limits of 11. The candidates receiving the most votes
(minimum of 15) are appointed as moderators.
6. Policy Assessment:
The policy board conducts semi-annual policy assessments to evaluate
charter and moderation policy efficacy and application by the
moderators. The policy board tags all posts relating to the policy
assessments with [MOD]. Users are encouraged to tag all posts relating
to the policy assessments or concerns about policies with [MOD] in order
to call the attention of the community. If the assessment indicates a
need to make changes to the charter or moderation policy, the policy
board leads a public discussion lasting 21 days, presents up to three
plausible solutions, and conducts a vote. Votes are collected by the
policy board for 14 days. In order to vote in a policy assessment
change, a user must qualify to vote AND have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV. If at least 25 votes are cast on
a given change, and at least 75% of those votes favor that change, the
moderators implement it.
7. Vote of No Confidence
If any member of the community who has participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV believes a moderator or policy
board member is unfit, the member may make a post calling for a vote of
no confidence. The policy board posts a responding confirmation to begin
a 14 day period of discussion. During this discussion period, anyone
may comment, but only those who have participated in a policy
assessment, election, or the mkfl CFV may vote. The Policy Board
collects votes during the 14 days following the end of the discussion
period. A minimum of 50 votes and a 75% majority of those votes is
required to remove a moderator or policy board member. If removed by a
vote of no confidence, a moderator is not eligible to serve on the
policy board. If a successful vote of no confidence drops the number of
moderators below five, an emergency election is held. A vote of no
confidence is taken no more than twice against any moderator per term
and no more than four times between elections. Each member can request
a vote of no confidence no more than two times each year.
8. Contingency
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (for
example, fewer than five moderators are available to moderate the group)
and the policy board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation
reverts to robomoderation software until the moderation team is
functioning. In the event that the group reverts to robomoderation
software only, group users may be required to register their email
address in order to post to the group.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in the misc.kids.family-life community is to
reject spam, reject blatantly malicious trolls, and maintain a level of
civility using a combination of robo- and hand moderation.
User Status:
Yellow light status:
New users with unrecognized identities are initially on yellow light (or
"caution") status--meaning that any post from a user with an
unrecognized identity is hand moderated for compliance with the charter.
A copy of the charter is sent to the reply-to address. If the first post
is borderline with respect to the charter standards or is cross posted,
the moderators may delay advancing the poster to green light status. A
poster whose first post is fully in accordance with the charter normally
advances to green light status promptly.
Green light status:
If the first post is fully in accordance with the charter, the user
advances to green light (or "go") status-- meaning that the user's
subsequent posts are not hand moderated. Posters are encouraged to use a
consistent identity in order to maintain green light status.
Red light status:
When more than 50% of the moderators agree that a post from a green
light user violates the charter, the moderators send a warning about
posting guidelines and the implications of hand moderation, including
the slow appearance of posts. If a green light user receives three
warnings in one month or develops a pattern of receiving two warnings
each month for at least three months, the moderators put the user on red
light (or "stop") status. A single post from a yellow light user which
obviously violates the charter (and is rejected) can put that user on
red light status. In extreme cases, any moderator may place a poster on
temporary red light status for 24 hours, but the majority (more than
50%) of moderators must agree to retain a poster on red light status
until they develop a clear pattern of on-charter posting. The
moderators notify any poster who is placed on red light status that all
their posts are hand-moderated. Posters on red light status may request
a review of their status after one month of hand moderation, but remain
on red light status until they develop a pattern of on-charter posting.
Robomoderation:
1. approves posts that are received from users on green light status
that meet the technical requirements.
2. refers posts from yellow light users for hand moderation.
3. rejects cross posts to certain groups and refers posts for hand
moderation that are cross posted to more than three groups. If other
moderated newsgroups are included in the cross post, any approval will
be done in coordination with the moderators of the other newsgroups.
The moderators may add groups to or remove groups from the list for
automatic rejection by unanimous agreement. At this time, the list
includes:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, alt.snuh, alt.romath, alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.sex.pedophilia.
4. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts identified
as spam.
5. strips binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
>from posts, rejects posts that contain only such material, and rejects
other posts from which such material has been removed, or refers them
for hand moderation. PGP signatures and similar small binaries are
allowed at the moderators' discretion.
6. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that contain
more than 80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters
per line is recommended).
7. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that have
follow-ups directed to other groups not posted to.
8. refers posts from red light status posters for hand moderation.
9. either refers posts for hand moderation or rejects posts that fall
into a category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the
group and/or protect the moderators (for example: a website begins
dumping large quantities of messages into the moderation queue).
10.rejects posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators:
1. participate in the group.
2. modify poster status (red, yellow, or green light) whenever appropriate.
3. maintain an active list of users who violate the charter.
4. review all posts from yellow light users to verify adherence to the charter.
5. review all posts from red light users to verify adherence to the charter.
6. reject off-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
7. do not screen posts for topic, but may encourage discontinuing
contentious topics that have run their course--meaning that less than
five people are participating and the same arguments are being repeated
over and over again.
8. approve on-charter posts that have been referred for hand moderation.
9. post a queue report each week tagged [MOD]. The summary includes a
record of all received posts, robomoderation rejections, moderator
votes, and time outs; but does not include poster identities or
references to any other users.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group will
be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning a
family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those that,
...well... shall we say fell a little short <grin>. People could find
out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get passed by,
because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question has been mentioned a couple of times since the first RFD
came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be much more of an extension of the family, than
an extension of the act of travel. Family vacations are more than
'going to XXX with the kids', family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children, family vacations do not have to entail a
great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it) "... you are
unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel , like you already find
going on in the misc.kids group, such as how to change a diaper on an
airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve extensive
travel. From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it
will open up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative'
ideas for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like
Disney* or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative
nature, like camping, hiking, or what-have-you. Misc.kids.vacation will
offer choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those who
would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before there
was Disneyland, there were families and those families took vacations <grin>.
Misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back in touch with those sorts
of ideas.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of parents and
other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and understandings in
the area of raising kids. It is like having thousands of people with
many approaches to a common theme. The kinds of discussions which go on
in misc.kids are not found in any other location on the net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high signal to
noise ratio. There are vary few flame wars, despite the may varied
opinions on the subject. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand. Misc.kids.vacation
is a natural extension of that environment
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family-life
Moderator: Aula DeWitt <bdewitt2@cfl.rr.com>
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org>
Moderator: Barbara Foster Williams <bafoster@mindspring.com>
Moderator: Brian Edmonds <brian@gweep.ca>
Moderator: Victoria Kelsey-Frerichs <kerinda@ix.netcom.com>
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au>
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@netzero.net>
Moderator: Barbara (Circe) F <guavaln@yahoo.com>
Moderator: Cheryl V <clvt@optusnet.com.au>
Administrative contact address: misc-kids-family-life-moderator@gweep.ca
Article submission address: misc-kids-family-life@gweep.ca
END MODERATOR INFO.
misc.kids-reorg2 Final Vote Ack
misc.kids.vacation (REMOVE) -----+
misc.kids.consumers (REMOVE) ----+|
misc.kids.family-life (CREATE) ---+||
|||
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annporter~charter.net Ann Porter NYY
bafoster~mindspring.com Barbara Foster Williams YYY
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barbschaller~earthlink.net Barb Schaller YYY
bdewitt2~cfl.rr.com Aula DeWitt YYY
bdw~cfl.rr.com Bill DeWitt YYY
bengtl2.net~telia.com Bengt Larsson Y--
bheavlin~stat.stanford.edu B. Heavlin YYY
biow~ezmort.com Christopher Biow -YY
bmailman~sfo.com Brian Mailman ---
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brian~gweep.ca Brian Edmonds Y--
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cardiologist~heartmdphd.com Andrew B. Chung YYY
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cpetersky~yahoo.com Claire Petersky -YY
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cuhulain_98~yahoo.com The Ranger YYY
c_ish~mindspring.com Chris Ish YYY
D.Roberts~isu.usyd.edu.au Di Roberts YYY
dana~netherton.net Dana Netherton NY-
danilova~sbcglobal.net Cheryl S. YYY
david~farrar.com David Farrar YYY
daye~australia.edu Daye YYY
dbigelo~hotmail.com Dave Bigelo YYY
dc~panix.com David W. Crawford NYN
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denny~datkin.net Denny Atkin YYY
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franck.thales~wanadoo.fr Franck T. YY-
fred~mail.bytesforall.org Frederick Noronha YYN
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jenne_j~yahoo.com J. Jones YYY
jennifer~bernie.interbaun.com Jennifer YYY
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randeep_sihng~hotmail.com Randeep Sihng YYY
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shrao~nyx.net Shrisha Rao YYY
sigtoto~yahoo.com Dorothy Sacks YYY
slowly~hotmail.com Robyn Beveridge YYY
smlucas~flashmail.com Steven Lucas YYY
smw~pixel.citadel.org Steve Williams YYY
sntwoods~yahoo.com Nina Woods YYY
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stainles~realtime.net Dwight Brown NYY
sue_r~ihug.co.nz Sue Roberts YYY
sv2~llondel.org Susan Van Valkenburg YYY
tainuiti~yahoo.com Tai NNY
taktaz~ihug.com.au Alissa YYY
tamex~mindspring.com Tamex YYY
terimcb~optonline.net Teri YYY
tfwilliams~theriver.com TFWilliams Y--
tjmc.enteract~rcn.com tjmc ---
toivo~ucs.uwa.edu.au Toivo Pedaste YYY
tom_farley~yahoo.com Tom Farley NYY
truffles~bonbon.net Brigitte Ironmonger YYY
valeriepg~aol.com Valerie Pepito Romano NYN
van.ette~inter.nl.net Robert-Jan van Ette YYY
Whiskydry31~aol.com Wendy YYY
zarah~iglide.net Cheryl Malaguti YYY
Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
buzzy_bee_mm~yahoo.co.uk Megan Montgomery (aka Buzzy Bee)
! Ack bounced
cathy~glarus.geology.washington.edu Cathy Smither
! Ack bounced
john1~world.std.com Fred Cherry
! Apparent duplicate vote (of john1~theworld.com)
mkm-noack~misckids.org
! No ballot
preternatural~hotmail.com iphigenia
! No ballot
thom6821~bellsouth.net Lee and Cindi Thompson
! No vote statement in message
wiz~verinet.com Wiz
! No ballot
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