From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 21:45:02 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032039462.6249@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:37:42 UTC
Lines: 597
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11803 news.groups:410398 misc.kids:527993 misc.kids.moderated:18492 misc.kids.info:4582
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 21:45:24 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.health,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032039513.6260@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:38:33 UTC
Lines: 597
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11804 news.groups:410399 misc.kids.pregnancy:591920 misc.kids.health:102401 misc.kids.breastfeeding:181361
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 21:45:46 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids.consumers,misc.kids.computer,misc.kids.vacation
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <1032039578.6271@isc.org>
Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org
Archive-Name: misc.kids-reorg2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:39:38 UTC
Lines: 597
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11805 news.groups:410400 misc.kids.consumers:6933 misc.kids.computer:19968 misc.kids.vacation:10921
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
moderating a group on Yahoo. Noreen has a (yet unused) Master's Degree in
Library and Information Science, specializing in medical librarianship,
and plans to go back to work full-time next year.
Active Advisor: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com> is father to Eva, age 2,
and Julius, age 7 months. He is a doctor in private practice who cares for
both adults and children. He has been participating in newsgroups since
1995 and has been a frequent poster to misc.kids, misc.kids.health, and
several other usenet groups.
Advisor: Teresa Chandler <ralig@netzero.net> is a 20-something crunchy
alternaparent. She has been a USENET user since 1996, and has posted to
misc.kids and misc.kids.breastfeeding since the birth of her firstborn son
in 2001. Her turn-ons include her husband of 5 years, literature, and
history. In fact, she has her B.A. in two out of the three! She is
currently busy at home raising her son and continuing her lifelong quest
for omniscience.
Technical Advisory: Brian Edmunds <brian@gweep.ca> has been involved with
Usenet since the early 1990s, and an active moderator for a variety of
groups since 1995.
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: misc.kids.computer
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.computer>
posted 26 Mar 1993.]
The unmoderated group misc.kids.computer will function as a vehicle
for discussions of all aspects of the use of computers by children.
Discussion will not be limited to any particular platform or operating
system. Topic may include, but will not be limited to:
game software,
educational software,
hardware choices,
and other topics as long as the topic pertains to the use of
computers by children.
It is anticipated that the predominate readership of the newsgroup
would be parents, but participation by professionals in the
educational system will be encouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.consumers
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids-reorg>
posted 9 Aug 1994.]
Discussion of products related to kids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: misc.kids.vacation
[NOTE: This was the original charter, copied from the 2nd CFV at
<ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc/misc.kids.vacation>
posted 13 Dec 1993.]
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there <grin>. It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations <grin>. misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
<grin>. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it. If there is
a desire to remove misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV)
will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote
until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been multi-posted to the following newsgroups:
News.announce.newgroups
news.groups
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.consumers
misc.kids.computer
misc.kids.health
misc.kids.info
misc.kids.moderated
misc.kids.pregnancy
misc.kids.vacation
Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:
alt.mothers
alt.parenting.solutions
Proponent: Karen Glaesemann <glaesemann@worldnet.att.net>
Proponent: Chris Ish <c_ish@mindspring.com>
Mentor: Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 22:04:57 2002
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From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: cmsg cancel <1032039462.6249@isc.org>
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From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
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From glaesemann@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 14 22:04:58 2002
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: glaesemann@worldnet.att.net (Karen Glaesemann)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.kids,misc.kids.moderated,misc.kids.info
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.* reorganization
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REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group misc.kids.family
REMOVE misc.kids.computer (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.consumers (renamed to misc.kids)
REMOVE misc.kids.vacation (renamed to misc.kids)
[ moderator comment: this proposal is multiposted in 3 instances because
it affects the entire hierarchy, G5 measures by large ISPs might badly
interfere with proper distribution, and posting pointers seems not to be
adequate to us when it comes to group removals. alas the submission
script can't handle this situation more gracefully at this time.
- piranha, for the n.a.n moderation team ]
This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of
the misc.kids.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes(CFV); you cannot
vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.family lightly moderated general parenting community. (Moderated)
RATIONALE: all groups
This proposal calls for a reorganization of the misc.kids hierarchy
through the addition of a lightly moderated group for general discussion
and the removal of three topical groups that receive very little traffic.
Through the assessment of options to redirect off-topic posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy, heavy traffic in alt.mothers, and dissatisfaction
with the moderation style of misc.kids.moderated; it is clear that a
lightly moderated group is needed and that three groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy have become unused and/or obsolete. The lightly moderated
group, misc.kids.family, would serve posters who prefer a happy medium
between the unmoderated environment of misc.kids and the narrow topic
specificity achieved through moderation in misc.kids.moderated. The
limited traffic from misc.kids.computer, misc.kids.consumers, and
misc.kids.vacation should be officially subsumed into misc.kids, but
traffic will also continue on these topics in misc.kids.moderated and be
present in the new misc.kids.family group (some traffic on these topics,
particularly consumers, will also continue on misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding).
Several solutions have been proposed through the years and some attempted
to resolve the unmanageably high volume of traffic often found in
misc.kids and more recently in misc.kids.pregnancy by dividing the
hierarchy into topical groups. (The volume in misc.kids was lower in the
late 90's due to poor signal to noise ratio. This problem has been
addressed through two campaigns to encourage general topic traffic from
other groups, particularly misc.kids.pregnancy, to return and revitalize
misc.kids.) Through creation proposals in the 1990's, topic space specific
pregnancy and breastfeeding groups have established flourishing
communities. Misc.kids.moderated, misc.kids.info, and misc.kids.health
have also established loyal poster contingencies. Nevertheless, topic
space is difficult to define and divide among users. Topic space
dedicated to computers, consumers, and vacations has not drawn on-topic
traffic away from general groups. From a poll taken in May, some topics
are inseparable or incompatible for reasons particular to users, and
community style is paramount to satisfaction.
Parenting covers a large span of topics from preconception through death.
To a certain degree, every step is of some interest to every parent.
Users in the misc.kids hierarchy form relationships through the
transitions they experience while participating in groups discussing the
entire span, thus making it difficult to "graduate" into the next group
away from those that they have found reliable sources of help and support.
Others remain in multiple groups along the life span in order to share
insight with other newer posters on topic. Incompatible discusions arise
in light of more contentious or sensitive topics like
breastfeeding/bottlefeeding or infertility problems.
Community style remains the more significant issue though. When posting
style evolved to more contentious debates in misc.kids and only
misc.kids.moderated existed as an alternative, users wanting to discuss
babies and toddlers directed their posts into misc.kids.pregnancy in order
to get open discussion without debate. Opening those topics back up in
misc.kids has improved the ratio of discussion to debate, but the
unmoderated environment in misc.kids is most comfortable for those who
have the technical background to filter out trolls and spam that are
common to parenting topic space or are willing to overlook noise.
Misc.kids.moderated appeals to posters seeking lower traffic levels that
have a high signal-to-noise ratio created by parenting content rules
(misc.kids.moderated is moderated such that initial posts require direct
parenting content although some follow-up drift is permitted). A
proportion of users would prefer a middle ground for general discussion
where moderation would remove spam, eliminate trolls and moderators would
maintain a tone of civility with limited content restrictions that would
allow a greater sense of community. By providing a range of general
discussion groups, users graduating from misc.kids.pregnancy and
misc.kids.breastfeeding have a range of options to choose where to take
their posts and know that they will find the community style that they are
looking for.
Traffic levels justify the addition of this discussion group. An average
of 404 general posts appear in the misc.kids hierarchy each day. (Traffic
anlysis included all traffic posted in misc.kids 316 posts/day,
misc.kids.moderated 26 posts/day and obvious non-pregnancy posts from
misc.kids.pregnancy 62 posts/day tallied over one month periods going back
one calendar year. A margin of error is introduced to the tally for
misc.kids as groups.google.com has an upper limit on number of messages
returned in the search.) Misc.kids currently carries 78% of this traffic.
Off-topic posts (general parenting discussion) in misc.kids.pregnancy have
gone down significantly since the more recent move campaign from around
1100 posts per month off topic to around 500 (a 50% drop).
Misc.kids.moderated constitutes a little bit more than 6% of the general
parenting traffic in the hierarchy. General parenting is also found on
alt.mothers, which averages approximately 560 posts per day (more than 820
posts per day since 1/16/02 according to groups.google.com). Alt.mothers
has discussed moving its traffic into the Big 8, but did not wish to be a
part of this reorganization. Alt.mothers represents 3 responses in the
survey discussed below.
Our survey indicates that users are happy with an improved signal-to-noise
ratio of traffic in misc.kids, but the higher traffic levels are a problem
for some. Most posters use more than one misc.kids group. Many of those
subscribing to multiple groups in the hierarchy are dissatisfied with the
low traffic and parenting content restrictions in misc.kids.moderated.
Many posters who subscribe only to misc.kids.moderated prefer the low
traffic, high signal to noise ratio, and topic specificity. Many
respondents would consider using a new moderated group. The survey
received 43 responses both privately emailed and posted to misc.kids and
alt.mothers. The survey was posted to all groups in the misc.kids
hierarchy (it did not appear in misc.kids.info) and was modified for
alt.mothers and alt.parenting solutions.
Misc.kids.family is in no way intended to replace either misc.kids or
misc.kids.moderated. It is intended to strengthen the hierarchy by
spreading the traffic out into manageable communities that hang together
comfortably in the same topic space. The name incorporates the specific
community style and is an easily searchable term for new users to find on
USENET. We expect to generate traffic from new users not currently
posting in any misc.kids groups, users from alt.mothers who would prefer a
wider audience than that available in the alt hierarchy, users who are not
happy with current misc.kids groups, and the return of some former
misc.kids hierarchy users.
Since the creation of misc.kids.computer in 1993, discussions of game
software, educational software and hardware choices have become more
integrated into general parenting discussions. Advancements in comupter
software, better technical support and improved search engines have
decreased the need for a group dedicated to this topic. Traffic has
dropped precipitously since 1999. During each sampling of a one week
period (5/12/00-5/18/00, 5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) there were
fewer than ten posts (1, 6, and 3 respectively according to the google
search engine). Subject lines in the 2002 sampling read "Current issues
in computer used by young children" and "Babykeys." While both are
completely on topic, neither poster received responses. In the March of
2002, a search showed about 20 posts containing the words computer or
software (not in the signature line) in general groups (misc.kids and
misc.kids.moderated). Those discussions related to use of the computer as
a privelege, college computing centers, learning keyboarding, software for
gifted children. Through the renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser
degree misc.kids.moderated, family computing related discussions can be
easily posted in either group and would be on topic in the
misc.kids.family group.
While consumer issues may appear to be easily split from general parenting
discussions when this group was created in 1994, the topic space flows
naturally in existing groups to cover this topic and users are willing to
deal with the volume in misc.kids, misc.kids.moderated and
misc.kids.pregancy to discuss consumer issues as opposed to subscribing to
multiple groups. Traffic decreased significantly in 1998. In a sampling
taken since that time (5/12/98-5/18/98, 5/12/99-5/18/99, 5/12/00-5/18/00,
5/12/01-5/18/01, and 5/1/02-5/7/02) traffic has been fewer than 10 posts
per week (5, 8, 1, 6, and 3 respectively). Posts in the 2002 sampling
were two advertisements and one general spam. In a high traffic week
sampled 10/12/01-10/18/01 (27 total posts), 43 posts on a consumer product
thread appeared in misc.kids and misc.kids pregnancy. Twenty-two of those
43 were crossposted to misc.kids.consumers. Through the use of misc.kids
pregnancy, renewed use of misc.kids and to a lesser degree
misc.kids.moderated, consumer related discussions are currently posted in
existing groups. Misc.kids.consumers should be removed to avoid confusion
and duplication.
Vacation discussions also tend to flow naturally into the general
parenting discussions found in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated and have
thus not been found at the frequency needed to justify misc.kids.vacation.
Of 3 posts during the week of 5/1/02-5/7/02, only 2 of 22 posts in a
particular thread were crossposted into misc.kids.vacation from a
discussion in misc.kids.moderated. During the week of 5/12/01-5/18/01, of
9 posts only 1 post was actually an on-topic discussion with 4
advertisements and 4 trolling posts. In June of 2002, 42 posts contained
the words vacation, travel or trips in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated.
The subject "Flying with a 15 month old" received 18 responses. As
vacation discussions remain in misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
misc.kids.vacation should be removed to avoid duplication and confusion.
CHARTER: misc.kids.family
Misc.kids.family is a lightly moderated newsgroup intended to provide a
forum for parents to discuss a broad range of topics of interest for them
in their role as parents in a civil environment. The goal of moderation
will be to remove spam, eliminate trolls, and maintain a tone of civility.
What is on-topic?
On-topic discussion includes any topic of interest to many parents in
their role as parents. While posts do not necessarily have to mention
children, they should have some relevance to family life or childrearing
or other topics which inform or enhance one's role as a parent.
What is off-topic? (civility guidelines)
Essentially any post would be off-topic that violates a basic tone of
civility. In a civil environment, posts are inappropriate if they
denigrate, demean, ostracise, discriminate against or maliciously attack
other posters. Unacceptable posts would include posts promoting or
defending pedophilia or any form of child endangerment or abuse; spam
(examples: unsolicited commercial posts, ads for sex/pornography, and
multi-level marketing offers); incivil posts (examples: repetitive ad
hominem attacks, posts that show intolerance or viciously attack any other
poster); trolls (articles written to provoke users); and posts in response
to extended discussions of contentious topics that have run their course.
Due to the world wide audience of this newsgroup and its discussion of
children, users should refrain from posting information about other users
that has not been made publicly available by the actual user. This
information may include, but is not limited to names and ages of children,
birth dates, addresses and phone numbers of individual users. When this
issue comes to the attention of a moderator, signature files will be
checked for public information or the user may be contacted. No content
restrictions will be applied by moderation, but posters are encouraged to
stay on-topic. Extended topic drift is discouraged. From time to time,
topics may drift into discussions that are of no interest or relevance to
many parents in their role as parents. Active advisory board members may
encourage ending such discussions.
Posting guidelines
Users will receive a copy of the charter following their first post.
Postings should bear a name and contain a valid reply address in the
header or signature. The robomoderation software does allow posters to
privately register their email address so that a munged email address can
be used in posting. Postings should follow guidelines for on-topic
posting and should avoid any behaviors listed as off-topic.
Crossposting
Crossposting is generally discouraged and in certain cases not allowed.
Exceptions will be made for posts that are relevant to the misc.kids
hierarchy in general (hierarchy polls, announcements or community
discussions) and in order to add depth or insight to discussions (example:
topic is choosing a family pet. Crossposting to a pet group would be
appropriate.) Articles posted to more than three groups will be rejected
as will articles that are crossposted to groups included in the moderation
policy as not allowed (see Robomoderation section 2).
Charter function:
This charter must function in the best interest of misc.kids.family. If
changes are needed, needs should be brought to the attention of the group
through a post to the community tagged [MOD]. A solution will be
presented and a vote administered by the advisory board. A minimum of 25
active posters and a ¾ majority will be required to approve any
solution.
MODERATION POLICY
The goal of moderation in misc.kids.family is to remove spam, eliminate
trolls, maintain a tone of civility (as defined in the charter). Posts
identified as spam or troll will be predominantly rejected through the use
of robomoderation software. Civility will be monitored by human
moderators only in situations where posters repeatedly (more than three
times in one month) post in a clearly unsuitable manner (as defined by the
civility guidelines of the charter) or when contentious topics run their
course (fewer than 5 people are participating in a particular topic or
when the same arguments are being repeated over and over).
Robomoderation will:
1. refer posts for handmoderation that are from an unrecognized user
(first posts from any user).
2. reject posts that are crossposted to more than 3 groups or include
the following groups:
alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.snuh,alt.romath,alt.flame,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Other groups may be added to this list at
the unanimous agreement of the moderation board and the active
advisory board.
3. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that are identified
as spam.
4. strip binary files (e.g. jpegs), html and attachments of any kind
from posts. Posts that contain only HTML will be rejected. PGP
signatures will be allowed.
5. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that contain more than
80 characters per line (limiting your lines to 72 characters per line
is recommended).
6. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that have follow-ups
directed to other groups not posted to.
7. refer posts for handmoderation or reject posts that fall into a
category of measures needed to maintain the usability of the group
and/or protect the moderators. (Example: A website begins dumping
large quantities of messages into the moderation queue.)
8. reject posts that remain in the moderation queue for more than 5
days due to moderation oversight.
Human Moderators will:
1. participate in the group.
2. maintain an active list of users who violate civility guidelines
(as defined by the charter)
3. review the first post from new users to verify adherence to charter.
4. review all posts of users who have not posted in accordance to the
off-topic/civility guidelines (a minimum of three times in a four-week
period). Warnings will be sent to users following the first and second
violation about posting guidelines and the implications of
handmoderation (potentially slow appearance of posts). A notification
will be sent to users when/if handmoderation is used on their posts.
Users who fall into this category will have all of their posts
handmoderated until a pattern of proper posting is established and
maintained.
5. reject posts that are not in accordance with the civility guidelines
that have been referred for handmoderation.
6. not screen posts for intellectual content, but may discontinue
contentious threads when fewer than 5 people are still participating
in the discussion or the same position is being repeated over and
over.
7. post a summary of rejected posts at the end of each month.
Rejection summaries will be posted as a digest to the group under a
[MOD] tag in the form of:
Post rejected by: John Moderator
Date: 10/5/02
Reason: incivility
Cause: The following statement was made in the post: "some obviously
uncivil statement."
*Identity of the poster or references to any other user will not be
made available in the summary.
Moderation Board
A minimum of 3 and a maximum of 9 moderators will serve on the moderation
board at all times. A moderator board mailing list will be maintained for
all moderator board discussions and to complete all moderator board
functions. This mailing list will be made available to the advisory board
in digest form. While one moderator may approve any post, a simple
majority (more than 50%) is required to reject any post.
Advisory Board
The advisory board will administer annual moderator elections, administer
biannual moderator assessments by polling the group, stand in for
moderators when necessary, and provide technical assistance to moderators.
A mailing list will be maintained for advisory board discussions and to
complete advisory board functions. The active advisory board members will
receive a digest of the moderation board mailing list. The advisory board
will be made of Senior moderators and creation group members to total a
minimum of three active board members at any one time after the first
election of moderators is held. As the advisory board is enlarged, board
members will elect active advisors (minumum of three with a maximum of
seven for an odd total) annually according to the same procedure as
moderator election (self nomination during a 24 day period of candidacy
followed by 14 days of voting). Board members cast votes for the number
of available seats and the members receiving the most votes will be
appointed as active board members. Advisory board members will stand in
for moderators if a leave of absence is needed or a moderator is otherwise
unavailable. Members may request removal from the advisory board, but
must serve a moderator term to return.
Moderator Terms and Election:
Three charter moderators will serve the first 2 year term. The advisory
board will announce moderator openings and administer annual elections.
Moderators will be elected to serve a two year term but may resign at the
end of one year. Moderators who complete a two year term may be reelected
for one additional consecutive term or retire to the advisory board.
Moderator candidates can be nominated or volunteer during the "period of
candidacy." All posts relating to the election process will be tagged
[MOD]. A short description will be posted of each candidate's interests
and qualifications at the end of the "period of candidacy." The "voting
period" will begin 14 days after the period of candidacy is announced and
continue for 14 days. Active users (participants who have posted a
minimum of 2 times in the past 4 week period are considered active) may
vote for no more than the number of moderator seats available. The
candidates receiving the most votes (minimum of 15) will be appointed as
moderators. Advisory board members will serve as moderators when the
board is understaffed. A minimum of 3 Senior moderators (moderators
elected in a previous term) will serve at all times.
Moderator Assessment and Accountability:
Moderators will be given an assessment every six months. The advisory
board will administer the assessment to active participants, using a
simple reply-to questionnaire. Moderators receiving two consecutive poor
assessments (less than 85% approval rate) will not be eligible for
reelection at the end of their term and may be removed by the advisory
board if a ¾ majority of voting posters deem it necessary. If a
moderator is removed, an advisory board member will serve the remainder of
that moderator's place.
If for any reason the moderation board is not properly functioning (fewer
than three moderators are available to moderate the group) and the
advisory board is not able to stabilize the group, moderation will revert
to use of the robomoderation software until a new moderation team can be
established under the guidelines of the charter and moderation policy. In
the event that the group reverts to robomoderation software only, group
users will be required to register their email address in order to post to
the group.
Any user who has concerns about the moderators or policies is encouraged
to post concerns with a [MOD] tag. Active users are also encouraged to
alert moderators of posts or posters who violate the civility guidelines
listed in the charter.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: misc.kids.family
Moderator Board:
Moderator: Karen Glaesemann <karen@glaesemann.org> has been on USENET
since sometime around 1993 and posting in the misc.kids hierarchy since
1999 (misc.kids, misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids.breastfeeding, and
misc.kids.moderated) and moderates a mailing list. She holds a B.S degree
in Chemistry and was formerly employed as an agricultural chemist. She
and her husband were married at a very young age and put off having
children until their late twenties. Currently, Karen spends a fair amount
of time doing computer graphic design and lives on the left coast. She
has two daughters (15 months apart by choice) and another on the way.
Moderator: Daye Omega <brendana@labyrinth.net.au> is a Pagan parent to
Jayan (6/01). She has been married to her Australian husband since 1997.
She is an American, but she currently lives in Australia. She has been
active on USENET since 1996 and on misc.kids.pregnancy since 2000. She
remains a permanent fixture on alt.music.monkees, as well as actively
posting on several newsgroups. She is college educated and majored in
Criminal Justice and English. Her interests include music, writing and
comparative religions. Currently, she is a SAHM, as well as continuing
her quest to learn more about our connection with Deity.
Moderator: Jeff Utz <jeffutz@earthlink.net> is a former pediatrician who
has switched careers and works as software engineer. Although he has no
children of his own, he is involved in mentoring children in New York City
as well as a soccer program outside in the suburbs of New York City where
he lives. Jeff is also a proud uncle.
Advisory Board:
Active Advisor: Peggy Fieland <madcapmaggie@yahoo.com> is a computer
software engineer and amateur musician. She has been posting to misc.kids
since 1989. She has three sons, the youngest of whom will be sixteen in
December. Peggy is a gay parent and along with her partner of 8 years
lives in suburban Boston. She is also a member of the Freedom Trail Band,
Boston's GLBT marching band.
Advisor: Hillary Israeli <hillary@hillary.net> has been posting to Usenet
since 1995, and is a contributor to misc.kids.pregnancy, misc.kids, and
misc.kids.breastfeeding. Formerly a technical support and systems
administration person at Philadelphia's first Internet Service Provider,
Hillary is now practicing small animal veterinary medicine part-time,
while also enjoying some time at home as primary caregiver for her toddler
son. She is also an avid gardener and all-around nature lover. Hillary
and her husband expect their second child this fall.
Active Advisor: Noreen Cooper Heavlin <heavlin@astreet.com> is an older
mom who has traveled for the past seven years with her DH Bill on that
wild roller-coaster ride called Parenting. Noreen has experience
parenting a child with special needs--her son was born with a mild
neurological disorder--and has way too much expertise in dealing with
sleep problems in infants and toddlers. Noreen started reading
misc.kids.pregnancy in 1996 and has since participated in all the
misc.kids groups, including a five-year stint as a creation team member
and advisor for misc.kids.moderated. She is currently active in many
volunteer projects, including the formation of this new group and
modera 
