From laurence@cco.caltech.edu Sun Jul 9 16:21:56 1995
Status: RO
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: laurence@cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Laurence)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria,alt.aquaria.killies,rec.ponds,sci.bio.fisheries,bionet.organisms.zebrafish
Subject: RFD: rec.aquaria reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 23 Jun 1995 13:59:12 -0400
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
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Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:7097 news.groups:155274 rec.aquaria:66376 alt.aquaria:48013 sci.aquaria:16108 alt.aquaria.killies:1271 rec.ponds:2978 sci.bio.fisheries:393 bionet.organisms.zebrafish:297
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marketplace
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.misc (renames rec.aquaria)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.tech
Author: Dustin Laurence, laurence@alice.caltech.edu
Co-proponent: Wayne A. Powell, wap@inforamp.net
(Note: while Dustin is happy to answer e-mail about this RFD and will
do his best to do so in a timely fashion, other committments may limit
his e-mail activity during the discussion period. We suggest that
e-mail be directed to Wayne unless there is a specific reason to do
otherwise.)
Summary: (All groups to be unmoderated)
RENAME rec.aquaria -> rec.aquaria.misc
CREATE rec.aquaria.marketplace
CREATE rec.aquaria.tech
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
CREATE rec.aquaria.marine.misc
CREATE rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Each newsgroup in this RFD will be voted on separately and will
pass or fail independent of the other newsgroups.
PROCEDURE
After discussion and approval in the *.aquaria groups, this RFD will
be officially posted to news.groups, news.announce.newgroups,
rec.aquaria, alt.aquaria, sci.aquaria, alt.aquaria.killies, rec.ponds,
sci.bio.fisheries, bionet.organisms.zebrafish. In addition, copies
will be mailed to the managers of the following mailing lists for
reposting: AQUARIUM, BETTAS, CICHLIDS, DISCUS-L, GOLDFISH,
AQUATIC-PLANTS, and KILLIES. Subsequent discussion will be directed to
news.groups. After a discussion period of 21-30 days, if there are no
overwhelming objections to any of the proposed groups, there will be a
Call For Votes (CFV) posted to the same groups as this RFD. If
significant changes are necessitated by that discussion, the revised
RFD will be posted for another discussion period before the CFV is
distributed.
After the official posting of the CFV, the voting period will be at
least 22 days. The actual vote will be counted by a neutral votetaker.
Each group that passes, by receiving 100 more YES votes than NO votes
*and* twice as many YES votes as NO votes, will be created five days
after the end of the voting period unless the vote is deemed irregular.
Any group which fails a valid vote may not be voted on again for six
months.
BACKGROUND
The usenet aquarium newsgroups, rec.aquaria, alt.aquaria, and
sci.aquaria have maintained a steady, sizeable message volume since
their creation. They enjoy an enthusiastic and dedicated readership
whose long-term committment is evidenced by the amount and complexity
of material that has been made available. The existing (already
>200k) FAQ for rec.aquaria has just been expanded and rewritten, a
>150k FAQ for reef aquarists is maintained separately, an ftp site and
several web sites provide permanent reference material, and recently a
hard disk to provide a permanent home at Caltech for the archive and
the Krib web pages (which were losing their former site) was purchased
with donations from the net. For those interested, these documents
are available at:
WWW:
Pointers to various web pages, including the regular aquaria
faq and the archive:
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/
Ftp:
Regular FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
Reefkeeper's FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Reefkeepers/
ftp://percula.acs.uci.edu/reefkeepers/faq/
Aquaria ftp archive:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/
ftp://ftp.sun.ac.za/pub/misc/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
(South Africa mirror)
There are also many active mailing lists on various aquarium topics
(the addresses listed here are the contact addresses, not the list
addresses themselves):
The bitnet AQUARIUM mailing list (listserv@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu)
241 subscribers, many messages per day.
The BETTAS list (listserv@listserv.arizona.edu)
135 subscribers, a few messages per day.
The CICHLIDS list (mail-server@mailmill.com)
>200 subscribers, many messages a day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The DISCUS-L list (listserv@mitvma.mit.edu)
~150 subscribers, ~10 messages per day.
The GOLDFISH list (howardr@col.hp.com)
~90 subscribers, ~7 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The AQUATIC PLANTS list (majordomo@actwin.com)
~200 subscribers, ~9 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The KILLIES list (no information was provided)
The fact that several of these lists would prefer to move to a
newsgroup (often because the workload is too great for the list
managers) demonstrates that a reorganization of the aquarium
newsgroups is long overdue.
A reorganization was discussed at length in these newsgroups starting
in April of 1994; much of the discussion is archived at
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/Archive/Net/reorg
or
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/incoming/reorg .
While the aquaria newsgroups have in the past been resistant to a
split on the grounds that it would inhibit cross-fertilization between
specialties, this discussion made it clear that the newsgroup volume
had become great enough to be problematic for a large majority of
readers.
Early on it was agreed that only rec.aquaria would be reorganized.
The redundancy in the current scheme with three groups should be
reduced rather than increased, and because rec.aquaria receives the
greatest volume (In March 95 it carried over 3000 messages) it should
remain the primary usenet aquarium newsgroup. However, because every
possible combination of these groups are received at various sites,
alt.aquaria and sci.aquaria should remain as they are rather than be
removed. Finally, this reorganization provides an appropriate
framework for the addition of more specific newsgroups at a later
date.
The results of Michael Sawyer's straw poll were posted on May 3. Out
of 62 votes, 60 were in favor of a reorganization. Similar majorities
supported the creation of two main rec.aquaria subgroups: .freshwater
and .marine . (The corresponding groups in this RFD appear with a
.misc suffix only because of the non-requirement requirement that this
be so.) The poll results, further discussion, and the judgement of
the author leads to the proposal for the creation of three additional
groups. It should be noted that the year delay in producing this RFD
is a result of the author's outside commitments, not a lack of
interest on the part of the long-suffering readers who have waited
patiently for its completion.
PROPOSAL:
GENERAL charter
The rec.aquaria.* hierarchy provides the primary USENET home for
discussion of all topics related to home aquaria. Discussion of other
closed aquatic and marine systems such as public aquaria, ponds,
aquaculture, and mariculture are also welcome, though these topics may
be better served by other newsgroups, such as rec.ponds; further
afield but still relevant are sci.bio.fisheries and
bionet.organisms.zebrafish (all of which are unrelated to and
unaffected by this RFD). However, the primary focus of the
rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is to support the private aquarist.
The divisions into topic specific subgroups is meant help the reader
find discussions on the topics that they are interested in, not to
inhibit them, so the charters of these newsgroups should not be
interpreted too narrowly.
Crossposting is discouraged unless absolutely necessary; if a post is
of potential interest to aquarists in both .marine and .freshwater
then it probably belongs in .misc instead of either. Sometimes
crossposting to two groups is fine, but otherwise posts should simply
go to .misc instead. However, crossposting is never appropriate
between .marketplace and the other groups.
(The following section is conditional on the passage of
rec.aquaria.marketplace; if that group fails, then the current
consensus-defined commercial posting policy will stay in effect and
apply to all groups on this RFD.)
Commercial postings
Advertisements and other commercial posts are a contentious issue on
the aquaria groups. Since the following may be unfriendly-sounding,
it should be emphasized that companies are invited and encouraged to
maintain a presence on the net, and if you avoid these pitfalls you
can expect a lot of appreciation for your efforts to be more
accessible through the net. For more useful information on
advertising on the net in general, see the Advertising on Usenet
posting in news.announce.newusers .
Non-advertisement posts from companies and their representatives
(including ongoing individual moneymaking ventures) require special
consideration as well as actual advertisements. Both are governed by
the Golden Rule of commercial posting in rec.aquaria.*:
The newsgroups exist for the benefit of their individual readers.
Companies and individual moneymaking ventures are _invited guests_
of the individual readers. As guests they receive special
consideration (rec.aquaria.marketplace), and are expected to take
special care not to interfere with the normal workings of what is
essentially a meeting place for private hobbyists. One corollary
of this rule is that readers should have a choice as to whether
they see (and often pay for the downloading of) ads, which is what
motivates much of the following.
Advertisements are restricted to rec.aquaria.marketplace, as provided
in that groups charter. Companies and their representatives are
encouraged to contribute to discussions in the other aquaria groups;
however, it should be understood that criticism of companies and
products is part of the purpose of those groups. If your company or
product is discussed, you are welcome to post your side of the story.
You should definitely not reply to every article or insist on having
the last word--a good rule is that you should post to the thread no
more often than other individual contributors.
E-mail advertising is never acceptable unless explicitly requested.
If a reader didn't specifically ask for your advertisement, don't send
it.
The above guidelines should eliminate most problems before they arise.
Companies that abide by the spirit, not the letter of the law and keep
the "guest" aspect in mind should find the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy a
friendly place to advertise their products and a uniquely valuable way
to obtain feedback and meet their customers. For more general
guidelines on what types of advertising are and are not acceptable on
usenet, see the Advertising FAQ in news.announce.newusers .
Unwelcome posts
Flames, while never on-topic, are particularly harmful when directed
at new readers. The aquaria groups were once one of the friendlier
places on the net for beginners. This is no longer true in many
people's minds because of the responses that are often aimed at
newbies (either to the net or to the hobby). Flames and other
non-constructive criticism aimed at those seeking help are unwelcome
and should be directed elsewhere (try alt.flame, /dev/null, or shout
at your monitor).
Binary files, even those related to aquaria, are generally not
appropriate (though _very small_ files may be ok). The correct
procedure is to make the file available by ftp, by WWW, or post the
file to an appropriate alt.binaries group (for pictures this would
probably be alt.binaries.pictures.animals or
alt.binaries.pictures.misc), and then post a short note in the aquaria
groups explaining where your binary post can be found and what its
subject line is.
Companies with hundreds of items to sell will have catalogs that
outgrow rec.aquaria.marketplace, and should instead maintain an ftp or
preferably web site and post its location (if done properly, this is
more convenient for your customers as well). Advertisements disguised
as advice ("your problem can be solved by our widget, as I've said to
everyone who has posted about this problem"), non-ad ads (.signature
files that advertise, for example, though short unobtrusive contact
information is OK), and ads for non-aquarium products are never
welcome; the net does not generally take kindly to this sort of
transparent subterfuge. Neither is e-mail advertising; interested
readers will read rec.aquaria.marketplace .
SPECIFIC NEWSGROUPS: (All distributions WORLD)
RENAME rec.aquaria to rec.aquaria.misc (Unmoderated)
Rationale: A general discussion group is needed, and to avoid heavy
political fire it must be named .misc .
Charter: Topics not covered by the other groups, and topics that are
appropriate to more than one group (rather than
crossposting). Not all topics fit neatly into the usual
freshwater/marine division (notably brackish aquaria), not
all topics have a large enough following to warrant a
separate newsgroup at this time, and some topics are of
broad interest to many types of aquarists. Also
appropriate are such things as pointers to more specific
newsgroups, ftp and web sites, and other "meta-issues."
If you don't know where to post it, it probably belongs
here.
The only things that do not belong here are those that
clearly fit well into one of the other groups; subjects
that are popular enough to warrant their own group should
not drown out smaller specialties in rec.aquaria.misc .
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Mandated by an overwhelming majority.
Charter: Topics specific to freshwater aquaria which do not fit
into one of the more specialized newsgroups, as well as
topics which fit into multiple specific freshwater
newsgroups.
CREATE rec.aquaria.marine.misc (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Mandated by an overwhelming majority.
Charter: Topics specific to marine aquaria which do not fit into
one of the more specialized newsgroups, as well as topics
which fit into multiple specific marine newsgroups.
CREATE rec.aquaria.marketplace (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Needed to avoid disputes over the appropriateness of
advertising, allow ads to be found easily without
burying or being buried in general discussion.
Charter: Ads related to aquaria and aquarium products and
inhabitants by private individuals and businesses.
Companies with hundreds of products must share the
newsgroup with hobbyists trying to unload their spare
tank, so care may be needed to avoid posting too often.
Posting once a month or so would nearly always be
unobjectionable; regularly posting every week would almost
certainly be too often. More important than numbers is
simple courtesy; if a post from somebody trying to sell
their living room tank is lost in a hail of commercial
ads, then the newsgroup cannot serve one of its primary
audiences. Similarly, huge catalog listings are
inappropriate. (Instead post pointers to ftp and web
sites with your on-line catalog; this works very well.)
Discussion of ads posted here should also take place here,
and posts should never be crossposted between
rec.aquaria.marketplace and another rec.aquaria.* group.
CREATE rec.aquaria.tech (Unmoderated)
Rationale: There are many topics which are common across the
freshwater/marine dichotomy, and this split is not meant
to interfere with the interaction of the two branches of
the hobby. Many of these topics relate to the technology
of aquarium keeping. While the organisms and special
techniques vary, both freshwater and marine aquaria face
a similar set of fundamental problems and often rely on
similar devices in their solution. This newsgroup also
allows those not interested in the gritty details to avoid
them.
Charter: Discussion about the technology of aquarium keeping,
including homebuilt gadgets as well as commercial devices.
Discussions of the technical details of such devices
belong here, though the rationale for their use may be just
as appropriate in another newsgroup.
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Cichlids are a large specialty within the freshwater
hobby, and have an active mailing list with over two
hundred subscribers. This mailing list has
specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
Charter: All topics related to both old- and new-world
cichlids.
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Goldfish are the stereotypical beginner aquarium fish,
but they also enjoy a dedicated following of skilled
aquarists and an active mailing list that has acquired
ninety members in about two months. This mailing list
has specifically asked for a dedicated newsgroup.
Charter: All topics related to goldfish and their kin.
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Planted tanks have an enthusiastic and voluble following
among freshwater aquarists (much like reefs have in the
marine branch). This group provides a home for planted
tank specialists and also allows the large number of non-
plant aquarists to avoid the many strictly plant posts
(a subject of some grumbling in the past). In
addition, there is a large, active plant mailing list
which has specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
Charter: All topics related to planted (freshwater) tanks.
CREATE rec.aquaria.marine.reefs (Unmoderated)
Rationale: The fundamental division of the marine hobby is into
reef and non-reef aquarists. This group provides a
home for reef specialists while allowing non-reef
aquarists to avoid the large number of reef related
posts. This newsgroup is the single most requested
specialty newsgroup in my private e-mail, and I fear
violence if it is not included! (Not really, but the
support is large and vocal--I would sooner worry that
there would be nothing left in
rec.aquaria.marine.misc .)
Charter: All topics related to marine reef aquaria.
Dustin Laurence, laurence@alice.caltech.edu
Wayne A. Powell, wap@inforamp.net
--
Lydick number: a paltry 3, but I'm working on it.
From laurence@cco.caltech.edu Fri Jul 14 11:18:27 1995
Status: RO
Path: uunet!in1.uu.net!bounce-back
From: laurence@cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Laurence)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria,alt.aquaria.killies,rec.ponds,sci.bio.fisheries,bionet.organisms.zebrafish
Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.aquaria reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 13 Jul 1995 20:20:28 -0400
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 432
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <3u4d8c$hdn@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:7146 news.groups:159383 rec.aquaria:68370 alt.aquaria:49613 sci.aquaria:16802 alt.aquaria.killies:1361 rec.ponds:3438 sci.bio.fisheries:457 bionet.organisms.zebrafish:312
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.misc
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marketplace
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.misc (renames rec.aquaria)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.tech
Author: Dustin Laurence <laurence@alice.caltech.edu>
Co-proponent: Wayne A. Powell <wap@inforamp.net>
(Note: while Dustin is happy to answer e-mail about this RFD and will
do his best to do so in a timely fashion, other committments may limit
his e-mail activity during the discussion period. We suggest that
e-mail be directed to Wayne unless there is a specific reason to do
otherwise.)
Summary: (All groups to be unmoderated)
RENAME rec.aquaria -> rec.aquaria.misc
CREATE rec.aquaria.marketplace
CREATE rec.aquaria.tech
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
CREATE rec.aquaria.marine.misc
CREATE rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Each newsgroup in this RFD will be voted on separately and will
pass or fail independent of the other newsgroups.
PROCEDURE
After discussion and approval in the *.aquaria groups, this RFD will
be officially posted to news.groups, news.announce.newgroups,
rec.aquaria, alt.aquaria, sci.aquaria, alt.aquaria.killies, rec.ponds,
sci.bio.fisheries, bionet.organisms.zebrafish. In addition, copies
will be mailed to the managers of the following mailing lists for
reposting: AQUARIUM, BETTAS, CICHLIDS, DISCUS-L, GOLDFISH,
AQUATIC-PLANTS, and KILLIES. Subsequent discussion will be directed to
news.groups. After a discussion period of 21-30 days, if there are no
overwhelming objections to any of the proposed groups, there will be a
Call For Votes (CFV) posted to the same groups as this RFD. If
significant changes are necessitated by that discussion, the revised
RFD will be posted for another discussion period before the CFV is
distributed.
After the official posting of the CFV, the voting period will be at
least 22 days. The actual vote will be counted by a neutral votetaker.
Each group that passes, by receiving 100 more YES votes than NO votes
*and* twice as many YES votes as NO votes, will be created five days
after the end of the voting period unless the vote is deemed irregular.
Any group which fails a valid vote may not be voted on again for six
months.
BACKGROUND
The usenet aquarium newsgroups, rec.aquaria, alt.aquaria, and
sci.aquaria have maintained a steady, sizeable message volume since
their creation. They enjoy an enthusiastic and dedicated readership
whose long-term committment is evidenced by the amount and complexity
of material that has been made available. The existing (already
>200k) FAQ for rec.aquaria has just been expanded and rewritten, a
>150k FAQ for reef aquarists is maintained separately, an ftp site and
several web sites provide permanent reference material, and recently a
hard disk to provide a permanent home at Caltech for the archive and
the Krib web pages (which were losing their former site) was purchased
with donations from the net. For those interested, these documents
are available at:
WWW:
Pointers to various web pages, including the regular aquaria
faq and the archive:
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/
Ftp:
Regular FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
Reefkeeper's FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Reefkeepers/
ftp://percula.acs.uci.edu/reefkeepers/faq/
Aquaria ftp archive:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/
ftp://ftp.sun.ac.za/pub/misc/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
(South Africa mirror)
There are also many active mailing lists on various aquarium topics
(the addresses listed here are the contact addresses, not the list
addresses themselves):
The bitnet AQUARIUM mailing list (listserv@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu)
241 subscribers, many messages per day.
The BETTAS list (listserv@listserv.arizona.edu)
135 subscribers, a few messages per day.
The CICHLIDS list (mail-server@mailmill.com)
>200 subscribers, many messages a day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The DISCUS-L list (listserv@mitvma.mit.edu)
~150 subscribers, ~10 messages per day.
The GOLDFISH list (howardr@col.hp.com)
~90 subscribers, ~7 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The AQUATIC PLANTS list (majordomo@actwin.com)
~200 subscribers, ~9 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The KILLIES list (no information was provided)
The fact that several of these lists would prefer to move to a
newsgroup (often because the workload is too great for the list
managers) demonstrates that a reorganization of the aquarium
newsgroups is long overdue.
A reorganization was discussed at length in these newsgroups starting
in April of 1994; much of the discussion is archived at
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/Archive/Net/reorg
or
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/incoming/reorg .
While the aquaria newsgroups have in the past been resistant to a
split on the grounds that it would inhibit cross-fertilization between
specialties, this discussion made it clear that the newsgroup volume
had become great enough to be problematic for a large majority of
readers.
Early on it was agreed that only rec.aquaria would be reorganized.
The redundancy in the current scheme with three groups should be
reduced rather than increased, and because rec.aquaria receives the
greatest volume (In March 95 it carried over 3000 messages) it should
remain the primary usenet aquarium newsgroup. However, because every
possible combination of these groups are received at various sites,
alt.aquaria and sci.aquaria should remain as they are rather than be
removed. Finally, this reorganization provides an appropriate
framework for the addition of more specific newsgroups at a later
date.
The results of Michael Sawyer's straw poll were posted on May 3. Out
of 62 votes, 60 were in favor of a reorganization. Similar majorities
supported the creation of two main rec.aquaria subgroups: .freshwater
and .marine . (The corresponding groups in this RFD appear with a
.misc suffix only because of the non-requirement requirement that this
be so.) The poll results, further discussion, and the judgement of
the author leads to the proposal for the creation of three additional
groups. It should be noted that the year delay in producing this RFD
is a result of the author's outside commitments, not a lack of
interest on the part of the long-suffering readers who have waited
patiently for its completion.
PROPOSAL:
GENERAL charter
The rec.aquaria.* hierarchy provides the primary USENET home for
discussion of all topics related to home aquaria. Discussion of other
closed aquatic and marine systems such as public aquaria, ponds,
aquaculture, and mariculture are also welcome, though these topics may
be better served by other newsgroups, such as rec.ponds; further
afield but still relevant are sci.bio.fisheries and
bionet.organisms.zebrafish (all of which are unrelated to and
unaffected by this RFD). However, the primary focus of the
rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is to support the private aquarist.
The divisions into topic specific subgroups is meant help the reader
find discussions on the topics that they are interested in, not to
inhibit them, so the charters of these newsgroups should not be
interpreted too narrowly.
Crossposting is discouraged unless absolutely necessary; if a post is
of potential interest to aquarists in both .marine and .freshwater
then it probably belongs in .misc instead of either. Sometimes
crossposting to two groups is fine, but otherwise posts should simply
go to .misc instead. However, crossposting is never appropriate
between .marketplace and the other groups.
(The following section is conditional on the passage of
rec.aquaria.marketplace; if that group fails, then the current
consensus-defined commercial posting policy will stay in effect and
apply to all groups on this RFD.)
Commercial postings
Advertisements and other commercial posts are a contentious issue on
the aquaria groups. Since the following may be unfriendly-sounding,
it should be emphasized that companies are invited and encouraged to
maintain a presence on the net, and if you avoid these pitfalls you
can expect a lot of appreciation for your efforts to be more
accessible through the net. For more useful information on
advertising on the net in general, see the Advertising on Usenet
posting in news.announce.newusers .
Non-advertisement posts from companies and their representatives
(including ongoing individual moneymaking ventures) require special
consideration as well as actual advertisements. Both are governed by
the Golden Rule of commercial posting in rec.aquaria.*:
The newsgroups exist for the benefit of their individual readers.
Companies and individual moneymaking ventures are _invited guests_
of the individual readers. As guests they receive special
consideration (rec.aquaria.marketplace), and are expected to take
special care not to interfere with the normal workings of what is
essentially a meeting place for private hobbyists. One corollary
of this rule is that readers should have a choice as to whether
they see (and often pay for the downloading of) ads, which is what
motivates much of the following.
Advertisements are restricted to rec.aquaria.marketplace, as provided
in that groups charter. Companies and their representatives are
encouraged to contribute to discussions in the other aquaria groups;
however, it should be understood that criticism of companies and
products is part of the purpose of those groups. If your company or
product is discussed, you are welcome to post your side of the story.
You should definitely not reply to every article or insist on having
the last word--a good rule is that you should post to the thread no
more often than other individual contributors.
E-mail advertising is never acceptable unless explicitly requested.
If a reader didn't specifically ask for your advertisement, don't send
it.
The above guidelines should eliminate most problems before they arise.
Companies that abide by the spirit, not the letter of the law and keep
the "guest" aspect in mind should find the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy a
friendly place to advertise their products and a uniquely valuable way
to obtain feedback and meet their customers. For more general
guidelines on what types of advertising are and are not acceptable on
usenet, see the Advertising FAQ in news.announce.newusers .
Unwelcome posts
Flames, while never on-topic, are particularly harmful when directed
at new readers. The aquaria groups were once one of the friendlier
places on the net for beginners. This is no longer true in many
people's minds because of the responses that are often aimed at
newbies (either to the net or to the hobby). Flames and other
non-constructive criticism aimed at those seeking help are unwelcome
and should be directed elsewhere (try alt.flame, /dev/null, or shout
at your monitor).
Binary files, even those related to aquaria, are generally not
appropriate (though _very small_ files may be ok). The correct
procedure is to make the file available by ftp, by WWW, or post the
file to an appropriate alt.binaries group (for pictures this would
probably be alt.binaries.pictures.animals or
alt.binaries.pictures.misc), and then post a short note in the aquaria
groups explaining where your binary post can be found and what its
subject line is.
Companies with hundreds of items to sell will have catalogs that
outgrow rec.aquaria.marketplace, and should instead maintain an ftp or
preferably web site and post its location (if done properly, this is
more convenient for your customers as well). Advertisements disguised
as advice ("your problem can be solved by our widget, as I've said to
everyone who has posted about this problem"), non-ad ads (.signature
files that advertise, for example, though short unobtrusive contact
information is OK), and ads for non-aquarium products are never
welcome; the net does not generally take kindly to this sort of
transparent subterfuge. Neither is e-mail advertising; interested
readers will read rec.aquaria.marketplace .
SPECIFIC NEWSGROUPS: (All distributions WORLD)
RENAME rec.aquaria to rec.aquaria.misc (Unmoderated)
Rationale: A general discussion group is needed, and to avoid heavy
political fire it must be named .misc .
Charter: Topics not covered by the other groups, and topics that are
appropriate to more than one group (rather than
crossposting). Not all topics fit neatly into the usual
freshwater/marine division (notably brackish aquaria), not
all topics have a large enough following to warrant a
separate newsgroup at this time, and some topics are of
broad interest to many types of aquarists. Also
appropriate are such things as pointers to more specific
newsgroups, ftp and web sites, and other "meta-issues."
If you don't know where to post it, it probably belongs
here.
The only things that do not belong here are those that
clearly fit well into one of the other groups; subjects
that are popular enough to warrant their own group should
not drown out smaller specialties in rec.aquaria.misc .
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Mandated by an overwhelming majority.
Charter: Topics specific to freshwater aquaria which do not fit
into one of the more specialized newsgroups, as well as
topics which fit into multiple specific freshwater
newsgroups.
CREATE rec.aquaria.marine.misc (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Mandated by an overwhelming majority.
Charter: Topics specific to marine aquaria which do not fit into
one of the more specialized newsgroups, as well as topics
which fit into multiple specific marine newsgroups.
CREATE rec.aquaria.marketplace (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Needed to avoid disputes over the appropriateness of
advertising, allow ads to be found easily without
burying or being buried in general discussion.
Charter: Ads related to aquaria and aquarium products and
inhabitants by private individuals and businesses.
Companies with hundreds of products must share the
newsgroup with hobbyists trying to unload their spare
tank, so care may be needed to avoid posting too often.
Posting once a month or so would nearly always be
unobjectionable; regularly posting every week would almost
certainly be too often. More important than numbers is
simple courtesy; if a post from somebody trying to sell
their living room tank is lost in a hail of commercial
ads, then the newsgroup cannot serve one of its primary
audiences. Similarly, huge catalog listings are
inappropriate. (Instead post pointers to ftp and web
sites with your on-line catalog; this works very well.)
Discussion of ads posted here should also take place here,
and posts should never be crossposted between
rec.aquaria.marketplace and another rec.aquaria.* group.
CREATE rec.aquaria.tech (Unmoderated)
Rationale: There are many topics which are common across the
freshwater/marine dichotomy, and this split is not meant
to interfere with the interaction of the two branches of
the hobby. Many of these topics relate to the technology
of aquarium keeping. While the organisms and special
techniques vary, both freshwater and marine aquaria face
a similar set of fundamental problems and often rely on
similar devices in their solution. This newsgroup also
allows those not interested in the gritty details to avoid
them.
Charter: Discussion about the technology of aquarium keeping,
including homebuilt gadgets as well as commercial devices.
Discussions of the technical details of such devices
belong here, though the rationale for their use may be just
as appropriate in another newsgroup.
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Cichlids are a large specialty within the freshwater
hobby, and have an active mailing list with over two
hundred subscribers. This mailing list has
specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
Charter: All topics related to both old- and new-world
cichlids.
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Goldfish are the stereotypical beginner aquarium fish,
but they also enjoy a dedicated following of skilled
aquarists and an active mailing list that has acquired
ninety members in about two months. This mailing list
has specifically asked for a dedicated newsgroup.
Charter: All topics related to goldfish and their kin.
CREATE rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants (Unmoderated)
Rationale: Planted tanks have an enthusiastic and voluble following
among freshwater aquarists (much like reefs have in the
marine branch). This group provides a home for planted
tank specialists and also allows the large number of non-
plant aquarists to avoid the many strictly plant posts
(a subject of some grumbling in the past). In
addition, there is a large, active plant mailing list
which has specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
Charter: All topics related to planted (freshwater) tanks.
CREATE rec.aquaria.marine.reefs (Unmoderated)
Rationale: The fundamental division of the marine hobby is into
reef and non-reef aquarists. This group provides a
home for reef specialists while allowing non-reef
aquarists to avoid the large number of reef related
posts. This newsgroup is the single most requested
specialty newsgroup in my private e-mail, and I fear
violence if it is not included! (Not really, but the
support is large and vocal--I would sooner worry that
there would be nothing left in
rec.aquaria.marine.misc .)
Charter: All topics related to marine reef aquaria.
Dustin Laurence <laurence@alice.caltech.edu>
Wayne A. Powell <wap@inforamp.net>
--
Lydick number: a paltry 3, but I'm working on it.
From wap@inforamp.net Thu Jan 4 18:51:48 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: wap@inforamp.net (Wayne A. Powell)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria,alt.aquaria.killies,rec.ponds,sci.bio.fisheries,bionet.organisms.zebrafish
Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.aquaria reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 4 Jan 1996 23:51:43 -0000
Organization: .
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Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
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Archive-Name: rec.aquaria-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8074 news.groups:181973 rec.aquaria:84100 alt.aquaria:61379 sci.aquaria:21181 alt.aquaria.killies:2302 rec.ponds:6633 sci.bio.fisheries:1200 bionet.organisms.zebrafish:500
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.misc
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marketplace
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.misc (renames rec.aquaria)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.tech
Proposed by: Dustin Laurence, laurence@alice.caltech.edu
Co-proponent: Wayne A. Powell, wap@inforamp.net
This is a formal 2nd Request For Discussion (RFD) for the
reorganization of the unmoderated newsgroup root hierarchy:
rec.aquaria.
CHANGES from previous RFD:
This 2nd RFD is being posted following a long delay after the first
posting on June 23rd, 1995. The proponents appologize for this delay
due to personal scheduling conflicts and are posting a 2nd RFD that
contains some minor changes suggested by news.groups discussions in
the 1st RFD. The release of a 2nd RFD was further delayed by the need
to make changes to its structure made necessary due to changes to the
RFD posting procedure. Also note that while Dustin is happy to answer
e-mail about this RFD other committments may limit his e-mail activity
during the discussion period. We suggest that e-mail be directed to
Wayne unless there is a specific reason to do otherwise.
RATIONALE: all groups
Background
The usenet aquarium newsgroups, rec.aquaria, alt.aquaria, and
sci.aquaria have maintained a steady, sizeable message volume since
their creation. They enjoy an enthusiastic and dedicated readership
whose long-term committment is evidenced by the amount and complexity
of material that has been made available. The existing (already
>200k) FAQ for rec.aquaria has just been expanded and rewritten, a
>150k FAQ for reef aquarists is maintained separately, an ftp site and
several web sites provide permanent reference material, and recently a
hard disk to provide a permanent home at Caltech for the archive and
the Krib web pages (which were losing their former site) was purchased
with donations from the net. For those interested, these documents
are available at:
WWW:
Pointers to various web pages, including the regular aquaria
faq and the archive:
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/
Ftp:
Regular FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
Reefkeeper's FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Reefkeepers/
ftp://percula.acs.uci.edu/reefkeepers/faq/
Aquaria ftp archive:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/
ftp://ftp.sun.ac.za/pub/misc/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
(South Africa mirror)
There are also many active mailing lists/newsletters on various aquarium topics
(the addresses listed here are the contact addresses, not the list
addresses themselves):
The bitnet AQUARIUM mailing list <listserv@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu>
241 subscribers, many messages per day.
The BETTAS list <listserv@listserv.arizona.edu>
135 subscribers, a few messages per day.
The CICHLIDS list <mail-server@mailmill.com>
>200 subscribers, many messages a day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The DISCUS-L list <listserv@mitvma.mit.edu>
~150 subscribers, ~10 messages per day.
The GOLDFISH list <howardr@col.hp.com>
~90 subscribers, ~7 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The AQUATIC PLANTS list <majordomo@actwin.com>
~200 subscribers, ~9 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The E-REEF News list <ksnyder@pheonix.nlci.co>
~72 subscribers, Society newsletter distributed weekly.
The KILLIES list (no information was provided)
The fact that several of these lists would prefer to move to a
newsgroup (often because the workload is too great for the list
managers) demonstrates that a reorganization of the aquarium
newsgroups is long overdue.
A reorganization was discussed at length in these newsgroups starting
in April of 1994; much of the discussion is archived at
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/Archive/Net/reorg
or
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/incoming/reorg .
While the aquaria newsgroups have in the past been resistant to a
split on the grounds that it would inhibit cross-fertilization between
specialties, this discussion made it clear that the newsgroup volume
had become great enough to be problematic for a large majority of
readers.
Early on it was agreed that only rec.aquaria would be reorganized.
The redundancy in the current scheme with three groups (rec.aquaria,
alt.aquaria. and sci.aquaria) should be reduced rather than increased,
and because rec.aquaria receives the greatest volume (In March 95 it
carried over 3000 messages) it should remain the primary usenet
aquarium newsgroup. However, because every possible combination of
these groups are received at various sites, alt.aquaria and
sci.aquaria should, for the meantime, remain as they are rather than be removed.
Finally, this reorganization, and the adoption of the *.misc hierarchy,
was designed to provide an appropriate framework for the addition of
more specific newsgroups at a later date.
The results of Michael Sawyer's straw poll were posted on May 3, 1994.
Out of 62 votes, 60 were in favor of a reorganization. Similar majorities
supported the creation of two main rec.aquaria subgroups: .freshwater
and .marine . The poll results, further discussion, and the judgement of
the author leads to the proposal for the creation of three additional
groups. It should be noted that the year delay in producing this RFD
is a result of the author's outside commitments, not a lack of
interest on the part of the long-suffering readers who have waited
patiently for its completion.
After lengthy discussions and approval in the *.aquaria groups,
the 1ST RFD was officially posted. After the initial discussion period of 30
days, there was an inordinate delay in bringing about a first CFV
proposal to the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers. The proponents appologize
for this and are posting this 2nd RFD (with very minor changes) to allow
for re-notification of our intent to create a CFV and continue discussion
of any further changes.
Each newsgroup in this RFD will be voted on separately in a CFV and will
pass or fail independent of the other newsgroups.
General
The rec.aquaria.* hierarchy provides the primary USENET home for
discussion of all topics related to home aquaria. Discussion of other
closed aquatic and marine systems such as public aquaria, ponds,
aquaculture, and mariculture are also welcome, though these topics may
be better served by other newsgroups, such as rec.ponds; further
afield but still relevant are sci.bio.fisheries and
bionet.organisms.zebrafish (all of which are unrelated to and
unaffected by this RFD). However, the primary focus of the
rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is to support the private aquarist.
The divisions into topic specific subgroups is meant help the reader
find discussions on the topics that they are interested in, not to
inhibit them, so the charters of these newsgroups should not be
interpreted too narrowly.
Crossposting among the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is discouraged unless
absolutely necessary or apparently logical; if a post is
of potential interest to aquarists in both .marine and .freshwater
then it probably belongs in .misc instead of either. Sometimes
crossposting to two groups is fine, but otherwise posts should simply
go to .misc instead. However, crossposting is never appropriate
between .marketplace and the other groups. Also, cross-posting to
sci.aquaria is discouraged unless the post is appropriate to the more
science-oriented discussions there.
(The following section is conditional on the passage of
rec.aquaria.marketplace; if that group fails, then the current
consensus-defined commercial posting policy will stay in effect and
apply to all groups on this RFD.)
Commercial postings
Advertisements and other commercial posts are a contentious issue on
the aquaria groups. Since the following may be unfriendly-sounding,
it should be emphasized that companies are invited and encouraged to
maintain a presence on the net, and if you avoid these pitfalls you
can expect a lot of appreciation for your efforts to be more
accessible through the net. For more useful information on
advertising on the net in general, see the Advertising on Usenet
posting in news.announce.newusers .
Non-advertisement posts from companies and their representatives
(including ongoing individual moneymaking ventures) require special
consideration as well as actual advertisements. Both are governed by
the Golden Rule of commercial posting in rec.aquaria.*:
The newsgroups exist for the benefit of their individual readers.
Companies and individual moneymaking ventures are _invited guests_
of the individual readers. As guests they receive special
consideration (rec.aquaria.marketplace), and are expected to take
special care not to interfere with the normal workings of what is
essentially a meeting place for private hobbyists. One corollary
of this rule is that readers should have a choice as to whether
they see (and often pay for the downloading of) ads, which is what
motivates much of the following.
Advertisements are restricted to rec.aquaria.marketplace, as provided
in that groups charter. Companies and their representatives are
encouraged to contribute to discussions in the other aquaria groups;
however, it should be understood that criticism of companies and
products is part of the purpose of those groups. If your company or
product is discussed, you are welcome to post your side of the story.
You should definitely not reply to every article or insist on having
the last word--a good rule is that you should post to the thread no
more often than other individual contributors.
E-mail advertising is never acceptable unless explicitly requested.
If a reader didn't specifically ask for your advertisement, don't send
it.
The above guidelines should eliminate most problems before they arise.
Companies that abide by the spirit, not the letter of the law and keep
the "guest" aspect in mind should find the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy a
friendly place to advertise their products and a uniquely valuable way
to obtain feedback and meet their customers. For more general
guidelines on what types of advertising are and are not acceptable on
usenet, see the Advertising FAQ in news.announce.newusers .
Unwelcome posts
Flames, while never on-topic, are particularly harmful when directed
at new readers. The aquaria groups were once one of the friendlier
places on the net for beginners. This is no longer true in many
people's minds because of the responses that are often aimed at
newbies (either to the net or to the hobby). Flames and other
non-constructive criticism aimed at those seeking help are unwelcome
and should be directed elsewhere (try alt.flame, /dev/null, or shout
at your monitor).
Binary files, even those related to aquaria, are generally not
appropriate (though _very small_ files may be ok). The correct
procedure is to make the file available by ftp, by WWW, or post the
file to an appropriate alt.binaries group (for pictures this would
probably be alt.binaries.pictures.animals or
alt.binaries.pictures.misc), and then post a short note in the aquaria
groups explaining where your binary post can be found and what its
subject line is.
Companies with hundreds of items to sell will have catalogs that
outgrow rec.aquaria.marketplace, and should instead maintain an ftp or
preferably web site and post its location (if done properly, this is
more convenient for your customers as well). Advertisements disguised
as advice ("your problem can be solved by our widget, as I've said to
everyone who has posted about this problem"), non-ad ads (.signature
files that advertise, for example, though short unobtrusive contact
information is OK), and ads for non-aquarium products are never
welcome; the net does not generally take kindly to this sort of
transparent subterfuge. Neither is e-mail advertising; interested
readers will read rec.aquaria.marketplace .
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
An unmoderated freshwater cichlid discussion group.
Cichlids are a large specialty within the freshwater
hobby, and have an active mailing list with over two
hundred subscribers. This mailing list has
specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
All topics related to both old- and new-world
cichlids.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
An unmoderated goldfish discussion group.
Goldfish are the stereotypical beginner aquarium fish, but they also
enjoy a dedicated following of skilled aquarists and an active mailing
list that has acquired ninety members in about two months. This
mailing list has specifically asked for a dedicated newsgroup.
All topics related to goldfish and their kin (carp/koi) in
aquaria systems.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
An unmoderated miscellaneous freshwater aquaria discussion group.
Topics specific to freshwater aquaria which do not fit into one of the
more specialized newsgroups, as well as topics which fit into multiple
specific freshwater newsgroups.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.marine.misc
An unmoderated miscellaneous marine aquaria discussion group.
Topics specific to marine aquaria which do not fit into one of the
more specialized newsgroups, as well as topics which fit into multiple
specific marine newsgroups.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.marketplace
An unmoderated aquaria marketplace discussion group.
Needed to avoid disputes over the appropriateness of advertising,
allowing ads to be found easily without burying or being buried in
general discussion.
Ads related to aquaria and aquarium products and inhabitants by
private individuals and businesses. Companies with hundreds of
products must share the newsgroup with hobbyists trying to unload
their spare tank, so care may be needed to avoid posting too often.
Posting once a month or so would nearly always be unobjectionable;
regularly posting every week would almost certainly be too often.
More important than numbers is simple courtesy; if a post from
somebody trying to sell their living room tank is lost in a hail of
commercial ads, then the newsgroup cannot serve one of its primary
audiences. Similarly, huge catalog listings are inappropriate.
(Instead post pointers to ftp and web sites with your on-line catalog;
this works very well.) Discussion of ads posted here should also take
place here, and posts should never be crossposted between
rec.aquaria.marketplace and another rec.aquaria.* group.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
An unmoderated freshwater aquaria plant discussion group.
Planted tanks have an enthusiastic and voluble following
among freshwater aquarists (much like reefs have in the
marine branch). This group provides a home for planted
tank specialists and also allows the large number of non-
plant aquarists to avoid the many strictly plant posts
(a subject of some grumbling in the past). In addition, there is a
large, active plant mailing list which has specifically requested a
dedicated newsgroup.
All topics related to planted (freshwater) tanks.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
An unmoderated marine reef aquaria discussion group.
The fundamental division of the marine hobby is into reef and non-reef
aquarists. This group provides a home for reef specialists while
allowing non-reef aquarists to avoid the large number of reef related
posts. This newsgroup is the single most requested specialty
newsgroup in my private e-mail, and I fear violence if it is not
included! (Not really, but the support is large and vocal-- we would
sooner worry that there would be nothing left in
rec.aquaria.marine.misc .)
All topics related to marine reef aquaria.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.misc
An unmoderated miscellaneous aquaria discussion group.
Needed for topics not covered by a more specific group. *.misc is
suggested to redirect current posting flow to more specific groups and
to provide a continued useful charter with further future expansion of
the hierarchy. rec.aquaria.misc will rename and replace the current
root group: rec.aquaria
Includes topics not covered by the other groups, and topics that are
appropriate to more than one group (rather than crossposting). Not
all topics fit neatly into the usual freshwater/marine division
(notably brackish aquaria), not all topics have a large enough
following to warrant a separate newsgroup at this time, and some
topics are of broad interest to many types of aquarists. Also
appropriate are such things as pointers to more specific newsgroups,
ftp and web sites, and other "meta-issues." If you don't know where
to post it, it probably belongs here.
The only things that do not belong here are those that clearly fit
well into one of the other groups; subjects that are popular enough to
warrant their own group should not drown out smaller specialties in
rec.aquaria.misc . The injunction to not interpret charters too
narrowly applies particularly to rec.aquaria.misc, however; a certain
amount of overlap with the other groups is inevitable and as long as
the smaller specialties are not crowded out need not be discouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.tech
An unmoderated aquaria technical discussion group.
There are many topics which are common across the freshwater/marine
dichotomy, and this split is not meant to interfere with the
interaction of the two branches of the hobby. Many of these topics
relate to the technology of aquarium keeping. While the organisms and
special techniques vary, both freshwater and marine aquaria face a
similar set of fundamental problems and often rely on similar devices
in their solution. This newsgroup also allows those not interested in
the gritty details to avoid them.
Discussion about the technology of aquarium keeping, including
homebuilt gadgets as well as commercial devices. Discussions of the
technical details of such devices belong here, though the rationale
for their use may be just as appropriate in another newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
An RFD is posted when users desire to create or change USENET
newsgroups, readers are requested to post their opinions and
suggestions on the proposed changes to news.groups for a set
period before a CFV (Call For Votes) is posted. The proponents
will monitor news.groups and respond to questions, criticism,
suggestions and praise. ;-)
This 2ND RFD will be posted for a period of 30 days.
After the period of the 2nd RFD, if there are no further substantial
objections to any of the proposed groups, (there were very few the
first time round) there will be a Call For Votes (CFV) posted to the
same groups as this RFD. If significant changes are necessitated by
this latest discussion, a further revised RFD will be posted before
the CFV is distributed.
After the official posting of the CFV, a voting period will be
initiated for at least 22 days. The actual vote will be counted by a
neutral UVV votetaker. Each group that passes, by receiving 100 more
YES votes than NO votes *and* 2/3 as many YES votes as NO votes, will
be created five days after the end of the voting period unless the
vote is deemed irregular. Any group which fails a valid vote may not
be voted on again for six months.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD is being posted to:
news.groups, news.announce.newgroups,
rec.aquaria, alt.aquaria, sci.aquaria, alt.aquaria.killies, rec.ponds,
sci.bio.fisheries, bionet.organisms.zebrafish.
In addition, copies are mailed to the managers of the following
mailing lists for reposting: AQUARIUM, BETTAS, CICHLIDS, DISCUS-L,
GOLDFISH, AQUATIC-PLANTS, KILLIES and to the E-REEF News.
All subsequent discussion is directed to
and to be carried on in news.groups.
From warren@Syra.NET Wed Feb 7 18:29:07 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: warren@Syra.NET
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.aquaria,alt.aquaria.killies,bionet.organisms.zebrafish,rec.aquaria,rec.ponds,sci.aquaria,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: CFV: rec.aquaria reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 7 Feb 1996 23:28:51 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 549
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 29 Feb 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <rec.aquaria-reorg-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
References: <rec.aquaria-reorg-RFD1@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@Syra.NET
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.aquaria-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8244 news.groups:187659 alt.aquaria:64614 alt.aquaria.killies:2660 bionet.organisms.zebrafish:534 rec.aquaria:88906 rec.ponds:7032 sci.aquaria:22415 sci.bio.fisheries:1348
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.misc
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marketplace
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.misc (renames rec.aquaria)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.tech
Newsgroups line:
rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids Care and keeping of freshwater cichlids.
rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish Care and keeping of goldfish, koi, carp.
rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc Freshwater aquaria in general.
rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Keeping of freshwater aquarium plants.
rec.aquaria.marine.misc Marine aquaria in general.
rec.aquaria.marine.reefs Marine Reef aquaria.
rec.aquaria.marketplace Aquarium advertising & announcements.
rec.aquaria.misc Closed System aquaria in general.
rec.aquaria.tech Aquarium related technology and equipment.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 28 Feb 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
this proposal should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Dustin Laurence <laurence@alice.caltech.edu>
Proponent: Wayne A. Powell <wap@inforamp.net>
Votetaker: Warren Lavallee <warren@Syra.NET>
RATIONALE: all groups
See individual rationales for each group below.
Background
The usenet aquarium newsgroups, rec.aquaria, alt.aquaria, and
sci.aquaria have maintained a steady, sizeable message volume since
their creation. They enjoy an enthusiastic and dedicated readership
whose long-term committment is evidenced by the amount and complexity
of material that has been made available. The existing (already
>200k) FAQ for rec.aquaria has just been expanded and rewritten, a
>150k FAQ for reef aquarists is maintained separately, an ftp site and
several web sites provide permanent reference material, and recently a
hard disk to provide a permanent home at Caltech for the archive and
the Krib web pages (which were losing their former site) was purchased
with donations from the net. For those interested, these documents
are available at:
WWW:
Pointers to various web pages, including the regular aquaria
faq and the archive:
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/
Ftp:
Regular FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
Reefkeeper's FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Reefkeepers/
ftp://percula.acs.uci.edu/reefkeepers/faq/
Aquaria ftp archive:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/
ftp://ftp.sun.ac.za/pub/misc/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
(South Africa mirror)
There are also many active mailing lists/newsletters on various aquarium
topics (the addresses listed here are the contact addresses, not the list
addresses themselves):
The bitnet AQUARIUM mailing list <listserv@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu>
241 subscribers, many messages per day.
The BETTAS list <listserv@listserv.arizona.edu>
135 subscribers, a few messages per day.
The CICHLIDS list <mail-server@mailmill.com>
>200 subscribers, many messages a day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The DISCUS-L list <listserv@mitvma.mit.edu>
~150 subscribers, ~10 messages per day.
The GOLDFISH list <howardr@col.hp.com>
~90 subscribers, ~7 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The AQUATIC PLANTS list <majordomo@actwin.com>
~200 subscribers, ~9 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The E-REEF News list <ksnyder@pheonix.nlci.co>
~72 subscribers, Society newsletter distributed weekly.
The KILLIES list <killie-request@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
No information provided at time of publication.
The fact that several of these lists would prefer to move to a
newsgroup (often because the workload is too great for the list
managers) demonstrates that a reorganization of the aquarium
newsgroups is long overdue.
A reorganization was discussed at length in these newsgroups starting
in April of 1994; much of the discussion is archived at
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/Archive/Net/reorg
or
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/Net/reorg .
While the aquaria newsgroups have in the past been resistant to a
split on the grounds that it would inhibit cross-fertilization between
specialties, this discussion made it clear that the newsgroup volume
had become great enough to be problematic for a large majority of
readers.
Early on it was agreed that only rec.aquaria would be reorganized.
The redundancy in the current scheme with three groups (rec.aquaria,
alt.aquaria. and sci.aquaria) should be reduced rather than increased,
and because rec.aquaria receives the greatest volume (In March 95 it
carried over 3000 messages) it should remain the primary usenet aquarium
newsgroup. However, because every possible combination of these groups
are received at various sites, alt.aquaria and sci.aquaria should, for
the meantime, remain as they are rather than be removed. Finally, this
reorganization, and the adoption of the *.misc hierarchy, was designed
to provide an appropriate framework for the addition of more specific
newsgroups at a later date.
The results of Michael Sawyer's straw poll were posted on May 3,
1994. Out of 62 votes, 60 were in favor of a reorganization. Similar
majorities supported the creation of two main rec.aquaria subgroups:
.freshwater and .marine . The poll results, further discussion, and the
judgement of the author leads to the proposal for the creation of three
additional groups. It should be noted that the year delay in producing
this CFV was a result of the authors' outside commitments, not a lack
of interest on the part of the long-suffering readers who have waited
patiently for its completion.
After lengthy discussions and approval in the *.aquaria groups, the
1ST RFD was officially posted. After the initial discussion period of
30 days, there was an inordinate delay in bringing about a first CFV
proposal to the UVV. The 2nd RFD was posted (with very minor changes)
to allow for re-notification of our intent to create a CFV and continue
discussion of any further changes.
General Rationale
The rec.aquaria.* hierarchy provides the primary USENET home for
discussion of all topics related to home aquaria. Discussion of other
closed aquatic and marine systems such as public aquaria, ponds,
aquaculture, and mariculture are also welcome, though these topics may
be better served by other newsgroups, such as rec.ponds; further afield
but still relevant are sci.bio.fisheries and bionet.organisms.zebrafish
(all of which are unrelated to and unaffected by this RFD). However, the
primary focus of the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is to support the private
aquarist.
The divisions into topic specific subgroups is meant help the reader
find discussions on the topics that they are interested in, not to
inhibit them, so the charters of these newsgroups should not be
interpreted too narrowly.
Crossposting among the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is discouraged unless
absolutely necessary or apparently logical; i.e. if a post is of
potential interest to aquarists in both .marine and .freshwater then it
probably belongs in .misc instead of either. Sometimes crossposting to
multiple groups is fine, but otherwise posts should simply go to .misc
instead. However, crossposting is never appropriate between .marketplace
and the other groups. Also, cross-posting to sci.aquaria is discouraged
unless the post is appropriate to the more science-oriented discussions
there.
(The following section is conditional on the passage of
rec.aquaria.marketplace; if that group fails, then the current
consensus-defined commercial posting policy will stay in effect and
apply to all groups on this RFD.)
Commercial postings
Advertisements and other commercial posts are a contentious issue on
the aquaria groups. Since the following may be unfriendly-sounding,
it should be emphasized that companies are invited and encouraged to
maintain a presence on the net, and if you avoid these pitfalls you
can expect a lot of appreciation for your efforts to be more
accessible through the net. For more useful information on
advertising on the net in general, see the Advertising on Usenet
posting in news.announce.newusers .
Non-advertisement posts from companies and their representatives
(including ongoing individual moneymaking ventures) require special
consideration as well as actual advertisements. Both are governed by
the Golden Rule of commercial posting in rec.aquaria.*:
The newsgroups exist for the benefit of their individual readers.
Companies and individual moneymaking ventures are _invited guests_
of the individual readers. As guests they receive special
consideration (rec.aquaria.marketplace), and are expected to take
special care not to interfere with the normal workings of what is
essentially a meeting place for private hobbyists. One corollary
of this rule is that readers should have a choice as to whether
they see (and often pay for the downloading of) ads, which is what
motivates much of the following.
Advertisements are restricted to rec.aquaria.marketplace, as provided
in that groups charter. Companies and their representatives are
encouraged to contribute to discussions in the other aquaria groups;
however, it should be understood that criticism of companies and
products is part of the purpose of those groups. If your company or
product is discussed, you are welcome to post your side of the story.
You should definitely not reply to every article or insist on having
the last word--a good rule is that you should post to the thread no
more often than other individual contributors.
E-mail advertising is never acceptable unless explicitly requested.
If a reader didn't specifically ask for your advertisement, don't send
it.
The above guidelines should eliminate most problems before they arise.
Companies that abide by the spirit, not the letter of the law and keep
the "guest" aspect in mind should find rec.aquaria.marketplace a
friendly place to advertise their products. For more general
guidelines on what types of advertising are and are not acceptable on
usenet, see the Advertising FAQ in news.announce.newusers .
Unwelcome posts
Flames, while never on-topic, are particularly harmful when directed
at new readers. The aquaria groups were once one of the friendlier
places on the net for beginners. This is no longer true in many
people's minds because of the responses that are often aimed at
newbies (either to the net or to the hobby). Flames and other
non-constructive criticism aimed at those seeking help are unwelcome
and should be directed elsewhere (try alt.flame, /dev/null, or shout
at your monitor).
Binary files, even those related to aquaria, are generally not
appropriate (though _very small_ files may be ok). The correct
procedure is to make the file available by ftp, by WWW, or post the
file to an appropriate alt.binaries group (for pictures this would
probably be alt.binaries.pictures.animals or
alt.binaries.pictures.misc), and then post a short note in the aquaria
groups explaining where your binary post can be found and what its
subject line is.
Companies with hundreds of items to sell will have catalogs that
outgrow rec.aquaria.marketplace, and should instead maintain an ftp or
preferably web site and post its location (if done properly, this is
more convenient for your customers as well). Advertisements disguised
as advice ("your problem can be solved by our widget, as I've said to
everyone who has posted about this problem"), non-ad ads (huge
obnoxious .signature files that advertise, for example, though short
unobtrusive contact information is OK), and ads for non-aquarium
products are never welcome; the net does not generally take kindly to
this sort of transparent subterfuge. Neither is e-mail advertising;
interested readers will read rec.aquaria.marketplace .
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
Cichlids are a large specialty within the freshwater
hobby, and have an active mailing list with over two
hundred subscribers. This mailing list has
specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
Goldfish are the stereotypical beginner aquarium fish,
but they also enjoy a dedicated following of skilled
aquarists and an active mailing list that acquired
ninety members in its first two months. This mailing
list has specifically asked for a dedicated newsgroup.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Mandated by a vocal request by the rec.aquaria readership
to divide and differentiate the rec.aquaria hierarchy into
freshwater and marine branches with specialty sub-groups
while maintaining a general discussion group to house topics
not covered by the more specialized sub-groups.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
Planted tanks have an enthusiastic and voluble following
among freshwater aquarists (much like reefs have in the
marine branch). This group provides a home for planted
tank specialists and also allows the large number of non-
plant aquarists to avoid the many strictly plant posts
(a subject of some grumbling in the past). In
addition, there is a large, active plant mailing list
which has specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
All topics related to planted (freshwater) tanks.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.marine.misc
Mandated by a vocal request by the rec.aquaria readership
to divide and differentiate the rec.aquaria hierarchy into
freshwater and marine branches with specialty sub-groups
while maintaining a general discussion group to house topics
not covered by the more specialized sub-groups.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
The fundamental division of the marine hobby is into
reef and non-reef aquarists. This group provides a
home for reef specialists while allowing non-reef
aquarists to avoid the large number of reef related
posts. This newsgroup is the single most requested
specialty newsgroup in my private e-mail, and I fear
violence if it is not included! (Not really, but the
support is large and vocal-- we would sooner worry that
there would be nothing left in rec.aquaria.marine.misc .)
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.marketplace
Allows ads to be found easily without burying or being
buried in general discussion. In keeping with the
general support to keep advertising out of general and
specific discussion groups. Supported by a recent poll
and discussion conducted within rec.aquaria.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.misc
Needed for topics not covered by a more specific group. *.misc
is suggested to redirect current posting flow to more specific
groups and to provide a continued useful charter with further
future expansion of the hierarchy. rec.aquaria.misc will rename
and replace the current root group: rec.aquaria
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.tech
There are many topics which are common across the
freshwater/marine dichotomy, and this split is not meant
to interfere with the interaction of the two branches of
the hobby. Many of these topics relate to the technology
of aquarium keeping. While the organisms and special
techniques vary, both freshwater and marine aquaria face
a similar set of fundamental problems and often rely on
similar devices in their solution. This newsgroup also
allows those not interested in the gritty details to avoid
them.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
An unmoderated freshwater cichlid discussion group.
All topics related to keeping both old- and new-world
cichlids in closed system aquaria.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
An unmoderated goldfish discussion group.
All topics related to goldfish and their kin (carp/koi) in
aquaria.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
An unmoderated miscellaneous freshwater aquarium discussion group.
Topics specific to freshwater aquaria which do not fit
into one of the more specialized newsgroups, as well as
topics which fit into multiple specific freshwater
newsgroups.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
An unmoderated freshwater aquarium plant discussion group.
All topics related to the keeping and care of aquatic
plants in closed system aquaria and for the discussion
of specialized plant tanks.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.marine.misc
An unmoderated miscellaneous marine aquarium discussion group.
Topics specific to marine aquaria which do not fit into
one of the more specialized newsgroups, as well as topics
which fit into multiple specific marine newsgroups.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
An unmoderated marine reef aquarium discussion group.
All topics related to marine reef aquaria, usually
characterized by the keeping of live rock, live sand,
corals (hard & soft) and/or marine invertebrates rather
than a "fish only" marine tank.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.marketplace
An unmoderated aquarium marketplace discussion group.
Ads related to aquaria and aquarium products and inhabitants by private
individuals and businesses. Companies with hundreds of products must
share the newsgroup with hobbyists trying to unload their spare tank,
so care may be needed to avoid posting too often. Posting once a month
or so would nearly always be unobjectionable; regularly posting every
week would almost certainly be too often. More important than numbers
is simple courtesy; if a post from somebody trying to sell their living
room tank is lost in a hail of commercial ads, then the newsgroup cannot
serve one of its primary audiences. Similarly, huge catalog listings
are inappropriate. (Instead post pointers to ftp and web sites with
your on-line catalog; this works very well.) Discussion of ads posted
here should also take place here, and posts should never be crossposted
between rec.aquaria.marketplace and another rec.aquaria.* group.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.misc
An unmoderated miscellaneous aquarium discussion group.
Includes topics not covered by the other groups, and topics that are
appropriate to more than one group (rather than crossposting). Not all
topics fit neatly into the usual freshwater/marine division (notably
brackish aquaria), not all topics have a large enough following to
warrant a separate newsgroup at this time, and some topics are of broad
interest to many types of aquarists. Also appropriate are such things
as pointers to more specific newsgroups, ftp and web sites, and other
"meta-issues." If you don't know where to post it, it probably belongs
here.
The only things that do not belong here are those that clearly fit
well into one of the other groups; subjects that are popular enough to
warrant their own group should not drown out smaller specialties in
rec.aquaria.misc . The injunction to not interpret charters too narrowly
applies particularly to rec.aquaria.misc, however; a certain amount of
overlap with the other groups is inevitable and as long as the smaller
specialties are not crowded out need not be discouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.tech
An unmoderated aquarium technical discussion group.
Discussion about the technology of aquarium keeping, including homebuilt
gadgets as well as commercial devices. Discussions of the technical
details of such devices and practices belong here, though the rationale
for their use may be just as appropriate in another newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE
Send E-MAIL to: voting@Syra.NET
DO NOT QUOTE THIS ENTIRE DOCUMENT IN YOUR VOTE! IT IS QUITE LARGE!
Delete everything except the lines between the two 'Don't Delete
Anything Between These Lines' lines. Votes from mail apps in WWW
browsers may not work.
Fill in your votes under the "Your Vote" column in the ballot. Put your
vote on the same line as the newsgroup name, between the [ and the ].
Valid votes are YES, NO, ABSTAIN, and CANCEL.
CANCEL will cancel any previous votes you have made on the paticulair
group.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.aquaria-reorg Ballot <RA-0001> (Don't remove this marker)
Give your real name here:
If you do not give a real name your vote may be rejected.
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
[ ] rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
[ ] rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
[ ] rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
[ ] rec.aquaria.marine.misc
[ ] rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
[ ] rec.aquaria.marketplace
[ ] rec.aquaria.misc (replaces rec.aquaria)
[ ] rec.aquaria.tech
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.
The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal
acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several
days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is
registered correctly.
If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid
vote will count.
VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:
Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must
be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid; this includes votes generated by
WWW/HTML/CGI forms.
Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean
that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days, contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is
registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most
recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published
in the final voting results post.
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to
news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited
copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in
doubt, ask the votetaker.
DISTRIBUTION:
This Call for Votes is being posted to the following newsgroups:
rec.aquaria,
alt.aquaria,
sci.aquaria,
alt.aquaria.killies,
rec.ponds,
sci.bio.fisheries,
bionet.organisms.zebrafish
This Call for Votes is also being sent to the following mailing lists:
Keeping and Breeding Betta Splendans <bettas@listserv.arizona.edu>
List for Keeping/Raising Discus fish <discus-l@mitvma.mit.edu>
AQUARIUM Mailing List <aquarium@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu>
Aquatic Plants List <aquatic-plants@actwin.com>
Cichlids Mailing List <cichlids@mailmill.com>
Goldfish List <goldfish@col.hp.com>
Killifish Mailing List <killies@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
E-REEF News <ksnyder@phoenix.nlci.com>
From warren@Syra.NET Mon Feb 19 07:27:53 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: warren@Syra.NET
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.aquaria,alt.aquaria.killies,bionet.organisms.zebrafish,rec.aquaria,rec.ponds,sci.aquaria,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.aquaria reorganization
Supersedes: <rec.aquaria-reorg-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 19 Feb 1996 12:27:52 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 549
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 29 Feb 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <rec.aquaria-reorg-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
References: <rec.aquaria-reorg-RFD1@uunet.uu.net><rec.aquaria-reorg-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@Syra.NET
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.aquaria-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8259 news.groups:190130 alt.aquaria:65527 alt.aquaria.killies:2781 bionet.organisms.zebrafish:545 rec.aquaria:90372 rec.ponds:7243 sci.aquaria:22689 sci.bio.fisheries:1403
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.misc
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marketplace
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.misc (renames rec.aquaria)
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.tech
Newsgroups line:
rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids Care and keeping of freshwater cichlids.
rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish Care and keeping of goldfish, koi, carp.
rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc Freshwater aquaria in general.
rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Keeping of freshwater aquarium plants.
rec.aquaria.marine.misc Marine aquaria in general.
rec.aquaria.marine.reefs Marine Reef aquaria.
rec.aquaria.marketplace Aquarium advertising & announcements.
rec.aquaria.misc Closed System aquaria in general.
rec.aquaria.tech Aquarium related technology and equipment.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 28 Feb 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
this proposal should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Dustin Laurence <laurence@alice.caltech.edu>
Proponent: Wayne A. Powell <wap@inforamp.net>
Votetaker: Warren Lavallee <warren@Syra.NET>
RATIONALE: all groups
See individual rationales for each group below.
Background
The usenet aquarium newsgroups, rec.aquaria, alt.aquaria, and
sci.aquaria have maintained a steady, sizeable message volume since
their creation. They enjoy an enthusiastic and dedicated readership
whose long-term committment is evidenced by the amount and complexity
of material that has been made available. The existing (already
>200k) FAQ for rec.aquaria has just been expanded and rewritten, a
>150k FAQ for reef aquarists is maintained separately, an ftp site and
several web sites provide permanent reference material, and recently a
hard disk to provide a permanent home at Caltech for the archive and
the Krib web pages (which were losing their former site) was purchased
with donations from the net. For those interested, these documents
are available at:
WWW:
Pointers to various web pages, including the regular aquaria
faq and the archive:
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/
Ftp:
Regular FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
Reefkeeper's FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Reefkeepers/
ftp://percula.acs.uci.edu/reefkeepers/faq/
Aquaria ftp archive:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/
ftp://ftp.sun.ac.za/pub/misc/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
(South Africa mirror)
There are also many active mailing lists/newsletters on various aquarium
topics (the addresses listed here are the contact addresses, not the list
addresses themselves):
The bitnet AQUARIUM mailing list <listserv@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu>
241 subscribers, many messages per day.
The BETTAS list <listserv@listserv.arizona.edu>
135 subscribers, a few messages per day.
The CICHLIDS list <mail-server@mailmill.com>
>200 subscribers, many messages a day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The DISCUS-L list <listserv@mitvma.mit.edu>
~150 subscribers, ~10 messages per day.
The GOLDFISH list <howardr@col.hp.com>
~90 subscribers, ~7 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The AQUATIC PLANTS list <majordomo@actwin.com>
~200 subscribers, ~9 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The E-REEF News list <ksnyder@pheonix.nlci.co>
~72 subscribers, Society newsletter distributed weekly.
The KILLIES list <killie-request@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
No information provided at time of publication.
The fact that several of these lists would prefer to move to a
newsgroup (often because the workload is too great for the list
managers) demonstrates that a reorganization of the aquarium
newsgroups is long overdue.
A reorganization was discussed at length in these newsgroups starting
in April of 1994; much of the discussion is archived at
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/Archive/Net/reorg
or
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/Net/reorg .
While the aquaria newsgroups have in the past been resistant to a
split on the grounds that it would inhibit cross-fertilization between
specialties, this discussion made it clear that the newsgroup volume
had become great enough to be problematic for a large majority of
readers.
Early on it was agreed that only rec.aquaria would be reorganized.
The redundancy in the current scheme with three groups (rec.aquaria,
alt.aquaria. and sci.aquaria) should be reduced rather than increased,
and because rec.aquaria receives the greatest volume (In March 95 it
carried over 3000 messages) it should remain the primary usenet aquarium
newsgroup. However, because every possible combination of these groups
are received at various sites, alt.aquaria and sci.aquaria should, for
the meantime, remain as they are rather than be removed. Finally, this
reorganization, and the adoption of the *.misc hierarchy, was designed
to provide an appropriate framework for the addition of more specific
newsgroups at a later date.
The results of Michael Sawyer's straw poll were posted on May 3,
1994. Out of 62 votes, 60 were in favor of a reorganization. Similar
majorities supported the creation of two main rec.aquaria subgroups:
.freshwater and .marine . The poll results, further discussion, and the
judgement of the author leads to the proposal for the creation of three
additional groups. It should be noted that the year delay in producing
this CFV was a result of the authors' outside commitments, not a lack
of interest on the part of the long-suffering readers who have waited
patiently for its completion.
After lengthy discussions and approval in the *.aquaria groups, the
1ST RFD was officially posted. After the initial discussion period of
30 days, there was an inordinate delay in bringing about a first CFV
proposal to the UVV. The 2nd RFD was posted (with very minor changes)
to allow for re-notification of our intent to create a CFV and continue
discussion of any further changes.
General Rationale
The rec.aquaria.* hierarchy provides the primary USENET home for
discussion of all topics related to home aquaria. Discussion of other
closed aquatic and marine systems such as public aquaria, ponds,
aquaculture, and mariculture are also welcome, though these topics may
be better served by other newsgroups, such as rec.ponds; further afield
but still relevant are sci.bio.fisheries and bionet.organisms.zebrafish
(all of which are unrelated to and unaffected by this RFD). However, the
primary focus of the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is to support the private
aquarist.
The divisions into topic specific subgroups is meant help the reader
find discussions on the topics that they are interested in, not to
inhibit them, so the charters of these newsgroups should not be
interpreted too narrowly.
Crossposting among the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is discouraged unless
absolutely necessary or apparently logical; i.e. if a post is of
potential interest to aquarists in both .marine and .freshwater then it
probably belongs in .misc instead of either. Sometimes crossposting to
multiple groups is fine, but otherwise posts should simply go to .misc
instead. However, crossposting is never appropriate between .marketplace
and the other groups. Also, cross-posting to sci.aquaria is discouraged
unless the post is appropriate to the more science-oriented discussions
there.
(The following section is conditional on the passage of
rec.aquaria.marketplace; if that group fails, then the current
consensus-defined commercial posting policy will stay in effect and
apply to all groups on this RFD.)
Commercial postings
Advertisements and other commercial posts are a contentious issue on
the aquaria groups. Since the following may be unfriendly-sounding,
it should be emphasized that companies are invited and encouraged to
maintain a presence on the net, and if you avoid these pitfalls you
can expect a lot of appreciation for your efforts to be more
accessible through the net. For more useful information on
advertising on the net in general, see the Advertising on Usenet
posting in news.announce.newusers .
Non-advertisement posts from companies and their representatives
(including ongoing individual moneymaking ventures) require special
consideration as well as actual advertisements. Both are governed by
the Golden Rule of commercial posting in rec.aquaria.*:
The newsgroups exist for the benefit of their individual readers.
Companies and individual moneymaking ventures are _invited guests_
of the individual readers. As guests they receive special
consideration (rec.aquaria.marketplace), and are expected to take
special care not to interfere with the normal workings of what is
essentially a meeting place for private hobbyists. One corollary
of this rule is that readers should have a choice as to whether
they see (and often pay for the downloading of) ads, which is what
motivates much of the following.
Advertisements are restricted to rec.aquaria.marketplace, as provided
in that groups charter. Companies and their representatives are
encouraged to contribute to discussions in the other aquaria groups;
however, it should be understood that criticism of companies and
products is part of the purpose of those groups. If your company or
product is discussed, you are welcome to post your side of the story.
You should definitely not reply to every article or insist on having
the last word--a good rule is that you should post to the thread no
more often than other individual contributors.
E-mail advertising is never acceptable unless explicitly requested.
If a reader didn't specifically ask for your advertisement, don't send
it.
The above guidelines should eliminate most problems before they arise.
Companies that abide by the spirit, not the letter of the law and keep
the "guest" aspect in mind should find rec.aquaria.marketplace a
friendly place to advertise their products. For more general
guidelines on what types of advertising are and are not acceptable on
usenet, see the Advertising FAQ in news.announce.newusers .
Unwelcome posts
Flames, while never on-topic, are particularly harmful when directed
at new readers. The aquaria groups were once one of the friendlier
places on the net for beginners. This is no longer true in many
people's minds because of the responses that are often aimed at
newbies (either to the net or to the hobby). Flames and other
non-constructive criticism aimed at those seeking help are unwelcome
and should be directed elsewhere (try alt.flame, /dev/null, or shout
at your monitor).
Binary files, even those related to aquaria, are generally not
appropriate (though _very small_ files may be ok). The correct
procedure is to make the file available by ftp, by WWW, or post the
file to an appropriate alt.binaries group (for pictures this would
probably be alt.binaries.pictures.animals or
alt.binaries.pictures.misc), and then post a short note in the aquaria
groups explaining where your binary post can be found and what its
subject line is.
Companies with hundreds of items to sell will have catalogs that
outgrow rec.aquaria.marketplace, and should instead maintain an ftp or
preferably web site and post its location (if done properly, this is
more convenient for your customers as well). Advertisements disguised
as advice ("your problem can be solved by our widget, as I've said to
everyone who has posted about this problem"), non-ad ads (huge
obnoxious .signature files that advertise, for example, though short
unobtrusive contact information is OK), and ads for non-aquarium
products are never welcome; the net does not generally take kindly to
this sort of transparent subterfuge. Neither is e-mail advertising;
interested readers will read rec.aquaria.marketplace .
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
Cichlids are a large specialty within the freshwater
hobby, and have an active mailing list with over two
hundred subscribers. This mailing list has
specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
Goldfish are the stereotypical beginner aquarium fish,
but they also enjoy a dedicated following of skilled
aquarists and an active mailing list that acquired
ninety members in its first two months. This mailing
list has specifically asked for a dedicated newsgroup.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Mandated by a vocal request by the rec.aquaria readership
to divide and differentiate the rec.aquaria hierarchy into
freshwater and marine branches with specialty sub-groups
while maintaining a general discussion group to house topics
not covered by the more specialized sub-groups.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
Planted tanks have an enthusiastic and voluble following
among freshwater aquarists (much like reefs have in the
marine branch). This group provides a home for planted
tank specialists and also allows the large number of non-
plant aquarists to avoid the many strictly plant posts
(a subject of some grumbling in the past). In
addition, there is a large, active plant mailing list
which has specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
All topics related to planted (freshwater) tanks.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.marine.misc
Mandated by a vocal request by the rec.aquaria readership
to divide and differentiate the rec.aquaria hierarchy into
freshwater and marine branches with specialty sub-groups
while maintaining a general discussion group to house topics
not covered by the more specialized sub-groups.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
The fundamental division of the marine hobby is into
reef and non-reef aquarists. This group provides a
home for reef specialists while allowing non-reef
aquarists to avoid the large number of reef related
posts. This newsgroup is the single most requested
specialty newsgroup in my private e-mail, and I fear
violence if it is not included! (Not really, but the
support is large and vocal-- we would sooner worry that
there would be nothing left in rec.aquaria.marine.misc .)
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.marketplace
Allows ads to be found easily without burying or being
buried in general discussion. In keeping with the
general support to keep advertising out of general and
specific discussion groups. Supported by a recent poll
and discussion conducted within rec.aquaria.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.misc
Needed for topics not covered by a more specific group. *.misc
is suggested to redirect current posting flow to more specific
groups and to provide a continued useful charter with further
future expansion of the hierarchy. rec.aquaria.misc will rename
and replace the current root group: rec.aquaria
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.tech
There are many topics which are common across the
freshwater/marine dichotomy, and this split is not meant
to interfere with the interaction of the two branches of
the hobby. Many of these topics relate to the technology
of aquarium keeping. While the organisms and special
techniques vary, both freshwater and marine aquaria face
a similar set of fundamental problems and often rely on
similar devices in their solution. This newsgroup also
allows those not interested in the gritty details to avoid
them.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
An unmoderated freshwater cichlid discussion group.
All topics related to keeping both old- and new-world
cichlids in closed system aquaria.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
An unmoderated goldfish discussion group.
All topics related to goldfish and their kin (carp/koi) in
aquaria.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
An unmoderated miscellaneous freshwater aquarium discussion group.
Topics specific to freshwater aquaria which do not fit
into one of the more specialized newsgroups, as well as
topics which fit into multiple specific freshwater
newsgroups.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
An unmoderated freshwater aquarium plant discussion group.
All topics related to the keeping and care of aquatic
plants in closed system aquaria and for the discussion
of specialized plant tanks.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.marine.misc
An unmoderated miscellaneous marine aquarium discussion group.
Topics specific to marine aquaria which do not fit into
one of the more specialized newsgroups, as well as topics
which fit into multiple specific marine newsgroups.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
An unmoderated marine reef aquarium discussion group.
All topics related to marine reef aquaria, usually
characterized by the keeping of live rock, live sand,
corals (hard & soft) and/or marine invertebrates rather
than a "fish only" marine tank.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.marketplace
An unmoderated aquarium marketplace discussion group.
Ads related to aquaria and aquarium products and inhabitants by private
individuals and businesses. Companies with hundreds of products must
share the newsgroup with hobbyists trying to unload their spare tank,
so care may be needed to avoid posting too often. Posting once a month
or so would nearly always be unobjectionable; regularly posting every
week would almost certainly be too often. More important than numbers
is simple courtesy; if a post from somebody trying to sell their living
room tank is lost in a hail of commercial ads, then the newsgroup cannot
serve one of its primary audiences. Similarly, huge catalog listings
are inappropriate. (Instead post pointers to ftp and web sites with
your on-line catalog; this works very well.) Discussion of ads posted
here should also take place here, and posts should never be crossposted
between rec.aquaria.marketplace and another rec.aquaria.* group.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.misc
An unmoderated miscellaneous aquarium discussion group.
Includes topics not covered by the other groups, and topics that are
appropriate to more than one group (rather than crossposting). Not all
topics fit neatly into the usual freshwater/marine division (notably
brackish aquaria), not all topics have a large enough following to
warrant a separate newsgroup at this time, and some topics are of broad
interest to many types of aquarists. Also appropriate are such things
as pointers to more specific newsgroups, ftp and web sites, and other
"meta-issues." If you don't know where to post it, it probably belongs
here.
The only things that do not belong here are those that clearly fit
well into one of the other groups; subjects that are popular enough to
warrant their own group should not drown out smaller specialties in
rec.aquaria.misc . The injunction to not interpret charters too narrowly
applies particularly to rec.aquaria.misc, however; a certain amount of
overlap with the other groups is inevitable and as long as the smaller
specialties are not crowded out need not be discouraged.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.aquaria.tech
An unmoderated aquarium technical discussion group.
Discussion about the technology of aquarium keeping, including homebuilt
gadgets as well as commercial devices. Discussions of the technical
details of such devices and practices belong here, though the rationale
for their use may be just as appropriate in another newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE
Send E-MAIL to: voting@Syra.NET
DO NOT QUOTE THIS ENTIRE DOCUMENT IN YOUR VOTE! IT IS QUITE LARGE!
Delete everything except the lines between the two 'Don't Delete
Anything Between These Lines' lines. Votes from mail apps in WWW
browsers may not work.
Fill in your votes under the "Your Vote" column in the ballot. Put your
vote on the same line as the newsgroup name, between the [ and the ].
Valid votes are YES, NO, ABSTAIN, and CANCEL.
CANCEL will cancel any previous votes you have made on the paticulair
group.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.aquaria-reorg Ballot <RA-0002> (Don't remove this marker)
Give your real name here:
If you do not give a real name your vote may be rejected.
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
[ ] rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
[ ] rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
[ ] rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
[ ] rec.aquaria.marine.misc
[ ] rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
[ ] rec.aquaria.marketplace
[ ] rec.aquaria.misc (replaces rec.aquaria)
[ ] rec.aquaria.tech
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.
The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal
acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several
days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is
registered correctly.
If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid
vote will count.
VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:
Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must
be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid; this includes votes generated by
WWW/HTML/CGI forms.
Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean
that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days, contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is
registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most
recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published
in the final voting results post.
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to
news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited
copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in
doubt, ask the votetaker.
DISTRIBUTION:
This Call for Votes is being posted to the following newsgroups:
rec.aquaria,
alt.aquaria,
sci.aquaria,
alt.aquaria.killies,
rec.ponds,
sci.bio.fisheries,
bionet.organisms.zebrafish
This Call for Votes is also being sent to the following mailing lists:
Keeping and Breeding Betta Splendans <bettas@listserv.arizona.edu>
List for Keeping/Raising Discus fish <discus-l@mitvma.mit.edu>
AQUARIUM Mailing List <aquarium@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu>
Aquatic Plants List <aquatic-plants@actwin.com>
Cichlids Mailing List <cichlids@mailmill.com>
Goldfish List <goldfish@col.hp.com>
Killifish Mailing List <killies@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
E-REEF News <ksnyder@phoenix.nlci.com>
From warren@Syra.NET Thu Feb 29 18:07:29 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: warren@Syra.NET
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.aquaria,alt.aquaria.killies,bionet.organisms.zebrafish,rec.aquaria,rec.ponds,sci.aquaria,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: RESULT: rec.aquaria reorganization all groups pass
Supersedes: <rec.aquaria-reorg-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 29 Feb 1996 18:07:35 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 1075
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <rec.aquaria-reorg-RESULT@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@Syra.NET
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.aquaria-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8320 news.groups:191948 alt.aquaria:66345 alt.aquaria.killies:2858 bionet.organisms.zebrafish:551 rec.aquaria:91861 rec.ponds:7480 sci.aquaria:22959 sci.bio.fisheries:1450
RESULT
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids passes 424:57
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish passes 406:71
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc passes 457:56
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants passes 446:59
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.misc passes 450:53
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marine.reefs passes 436:53
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.marketplace passes 459:57
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.misc passes 453:70
unmoderated group rec.aquaria.tech passes 438:76
Newsgroups line:
rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids Care and keeping of freshwater cichlids.
rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish Care and keeping of goldfish, koi, carp.
rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc Freshwater aquaria in general.
rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Keeping of freshwater aquarium plants.
rec.aquaria.marine.misc Marine aquaria in general.
rec.aquaria.marine.reefs Marine Reef aquaria.
rec.aquaria.marketplace Aquarium advertising & announcements.
rec.aquaria.misc Closed System aquaria in general.
rec.aquaria.tech Aquarium related technology and equipment.
This was being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
this proposal should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Dustin Laurence <laurence@alice.caltech.edu>
Proponent: Wayne A. Powell <wap@inforamp.net>
Votetaker: Warren Lavallee <warren@Syra.NET>
RATIONALE: all groups
See individual rationales for each group below.
Background
The usenet aquarium newsgroups, rec.aquaria, alt.aquaria, and
sci.aquaria have maintained a steady, sizeable message volume since
their creation. They enjoy an enthusiastic and dedicated readership
whose long-term committment is evidenced by the amount and complexity
of material that has been made available. The existing (already
>200k) FAQ for rec.aquaria has just been expanded and rewritten, a
>150k FAQ for reef aquarists is maintained separately, an ftp site and
several web sites provide permanent reference material, and recently a
hard disk to provide a permanent home at Caltech for the archive and
the Krib web pages (which were losing their former site) was purchased
with donations from the net. For those interested, these documents
are available at:
WWW:
Pointers to various web pages, including the regular aquaria
faq and the archive:
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/
Ftp:
Regular FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
Reefkeeper's FAQ:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/FAQfiles/Reefkeepers/
ftp://percula.acs.uci.edu/reefkeepers/faq/
Aquaria ftp archive:
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/
ftp://ftp.sun.ac.za/pub/misc/aquaria/FAQfiles/Usenet/
(South Africa mirror)
There are also many active mailing lists/newsletters on various aquarium
topics (the addresses listed here are the contact addresses, not the list
addresses themselves):
The bitnet AQUARIUM mailing list <listserv@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu>
241 subscribers, many messages per day.
The BETTAS list <listserv@listserv.arizona.edu>
135 subscribers, a few messages per day.
The CICHLIDS list <mail-server@mailmill.com>
>200 subscribers, many messages a day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The DISCUS-L list <listserv@mitvma.mit.edu>
~150 subscribers, ~10 messages per day.
The GOLDFISH list <howardr@col.hp.com>
~90 subscribers, ~7 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The AQUATIC PLANTS list <majordomo@actwin.com>
~200 subscribers, ~9 messages per day.
Requested a specialty newsgroup.
The E-REEF News list <ksnyder@pheonix.nlci.co>
~72 subscribers, Society newsletter distributed weekly.
The KILLIES list <killie-request@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
No information provided at time of publication.
The fact that several of these lists would prefer to move to a
newsgroup (often because the workload is too great for the list
managers) demonstrates that a reorganization of the aquarium
newsgroups is long overdue.
A reorganization was discussed at length in these newsgroups starting
in April of 1994; much of the discussion is archived at
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/Archive/Net/reorg
or
ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/aquaria/Net/reorg .
While the aquaria newsgroups have in the past been resistant to a
split on the grounds that it would inhibit cross-fertilization between
specialties, this discussion made it clear that the newsgroup volume
had become great enough to be problematic for a large majority of
readers.
Early on it was agreed that only rec.aquaria would be reorganized.
The redundancy in the current scheme with three groups (rec.aquaria,
alt.aquaria. and sci.aquaria) should be reduced rather than increased,
and because rec.aquaria receives the greatest volume (In March 95 it
carried over 3000 messages) it should remain the primary usenet aquarium
newsgroup. However, because every possible combination of these groups
are received at various sites, alt.aquaria and sci.aquaria should, for
the meantime, remain as they are rather than be removed. Finally, this
reorganization, and the adoption of the *.misc hierarchy, was designed
to provide an appropriate framework for the addition of more specific
newsgroups at a later date.
The results of Michael Sawyer's straw poll were posted on May 3,
1994. Out of 62 votes, 60 were in favor of a reorganization. Similar
majorities supported the creation of two main rec.aquaria subgroups:
.freshwater and .marine . The poll results, further discussion, and the
judgement of the author leads to the proposal for the creation of three
additional groups. It should be noted that the year delay in producing
this CFV was a result of the authors' outside commitments, not a lack
of interest on the part of the long-suffering readers who have waited
patiently for its completion.
After lengthy discussions and approval in the *.aquaria groups, the
1ST RFD was officially posted. After the initial discussion period of
30 days, there was an inordinate delay in bringing about a first CFV
proposal to the UVV. The 2nd RFD was posted (with very minor changes)
to allow for re-notification of our intent to create a CFV and continue
discussion of any further changes.
General Rationale
The rec.aquaria.* hierarchy provides the primary USENET home for
discussion of all topics related to home aquaria. Discussion of other
closed aquatic and marine systems such as public aquaria, ponds,
aquaculture, and mariculture are also welcome, though these topics may
be better served by other newsgroups, such as rec.ponds; further afield
but still relevant are sci.bio.fisheries and bionet.organisms.zebrafish
(all of which are unrelated to and unaffected by this RFD). However, the
primary focus of the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is to support the private
aquarist.
The divisions into topic specific subgroups is meant help the reader
find discussions on the topics that they are interested in, not to
inhibit them, so the charters of these newsgroups should not be
interpreted too narrowly.
Crossposting among the rec.aquaria.* hierarchy is discouraged unless
absolutely necessary or apparently logical; i.e. if a post is of
potential interest to aquarists in both .marine and .freshwater then it
probably belongs in .misc instead of either. Sometimes crossposting to
multiple groups is fine, but otherwise posts should simply go to .misc
instead. However, crossposting is never appropriate between .marketplace
and the other groups. Also, cross-posting to sci.aquaria is discouraged
unless the post is appropriate to the more science-oriented discussions
there.
(The following section is conditional on the passage of
rec.aquaria.marketplace; if that group fails, then the current
consensus-defined commercial posting policy will stay in effect and
apply to all groups on this RFD.)
Commercial postings
Advertisements and other commercial posts are a contentious issue on
the aquaria groups. Since the following may be unfriendly-sounding,
it should be emphasized that companies are invited and encouraged to
maintain a presence on the net, and if you avoid these pitfalls you
can expect a lot of appreciation for your efforts to be more
accessible through the net. For more useful information on
advertising on the net in general, see the Advertising on Usenet
posting in news.announce.newusers .
Non-advertisement posts from companies and their representatives
(including ongoing individual moneymaking ventures) require special
consideration as well as actual advertisements. Both are governed by
the Golden Rule of commercial posting in rec.aquaria.*:
The newsgroups exist for the benefit of their individual readers.
Companies and individual moneymaking ventures are _invited guests_
of the individual readers. As guests they receive special
consideration (rec.aquaria.marketplace), and are expected to take
special care not to interfere with the normal workings of what is
essentially a meeting place for private hobbyists. One corollary
of this rule is that readers should have a choice as to whether
they see (and often pay for the downloading of) ads, which is what
motivates much of the following.
Advertisements are restricted to rec.aquaria.marketplace, as provided
in that groups charter. Companies and their representatives are
encouraged to contribute to discussions in the other aquaria groups;
however, it should be understood that criticism of companies and
products is part of the purpose of those groups. If your company or
product is discussed, you are welcome to post your side of the story.
You should definitely not reply to every article or insist on having
the last word--a good rule is that you should post to the thread no
more often than other individual contributors.
E-mail advertising is never acceptable unless explicitly requested.
If a reader didn't specifically ask for your advertisement, don't send
it.
The above guidelines should eliminate most problems before they arise.
Companies that abide by the spirit, not the letter of the law and keep
the "guest" aspect in mind should find rec.aquaria.marketplace a
friendly place to advertise their products. For more general
guidelines on what types of advertising are and are not acceptable on
usenet, see the Advertising FAQ in news.announce.newusers .
Unwelcome posts
Flames, while never on-topic, are particularly harmful when directed
at new readers. The aquaria groups were once one of the friendlier
places on the net for beginners. This is no longer true in many
people's minds because of the responses that are often aimed at
newbies (either to the net or to the hobby). Flames and other
non-constructive criticism aimed at those seeking help are unwelcome
and should be directed elsewhere (try alt.flame, /dev/null, or shout
at your monitor).
Binary files, even those related to aquaria, are generally not
appropriate (though _very small_ files may be ok). The correct
procedure is to make the file available by ftp, by WWW, or post the
file to an appropriate alt.binaries group (for pictures this would
probably be alt.binaries.pictures.animals or
alt.binaries.pictures.misc), and then post a short note in the aquaria
groups explaining where your binary post can be found and what its
subject line is.
Companies with hundreds of items to sell will have catalogs that
outgrow rec.aquaria.marketplace, and should instead maintain an ftp or
preferably web site and post its location (if done properly, this is
more convenient for your customers as well). Advertisements disguised
as advice ("your problem can be solved by our widget, as I've said to
everyone who has posted about this problem"), non-ad ads (huge
obnoxious .signature files that advertise, for example, though short
unobtrusive contact information is OK), and ads for non-aquarium
products are never welcome; the net does not generally take kindly to
this sort of transparent subterfuge. Neither is e-mail advertising;
interested readers will read rec.aquaria.marketplace .
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids
Cichlids are a large specialty within the freshwater
hobby, and have an active mailing list with over two
hundred subscribers. This mailing list has
specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish
Goldfish are the stereotypical beginner aquarium fish,
but they also enjoy a dedicated following of skilled
aquarists and an active mailing list that acquired
ninety members in its first two months. This mailing
list has specifically asked for a dedicated newsgroup.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Mandated by a vocal request by the rec.aquaria readership
to divide and differentiate the rec.aquaria hierarchy into
freshwater and marine branches with specialty sub-groups
while maintaining a general discussion group to house topics
not covered by the more specialized sub-groups.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
Planted tanks have an enthusiastic and voluble following
among freshwater aquarists (much like reefs have in the
marine branch). This group provides a home for planted
tank specialists and also allows the large number of non-
plant aquarists to avoid the many strictly plant posts
(a subject of some grumbling in the past). In
addition, there is a large, active plant mailing list
which has specifically requested a dedicated newsgroup.
All topics related to planted (freshwater) tanks.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.marine.misc
Mandated by a vocal request by the rec.aquaria readership
to divide and differentiate the rec.aquaria hierarchy into
freshwater and marine branches with specialty sub-groups
while maintaining a general discussion group to house topics
not covered by the more specialized sub-groups.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
The fundamental division of the marine hobby is into
reef and non-reef aquarists. This group provides a
home for reef specialists while allowing non-reef
aquarists to avoid the large number of reef related
posts. This newsgroup is the single most requested
specialty newsgroup in my private e-mail, and I fear
violence if it is not included! (Not really, but the
support is large and vocal-- we would sooner worry that
there would be nothing left in rec.aquaria.marine.misc .)
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.marketplace
Allows ads to be found easily without burying or being
buried in general discussion. In keeping with the
general support to keep advertising out of general and
specific discussion groups. Supported by a recent poll
and discussion conducted within rec.aquaria.
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.misc
Needed for topics not covered by a more specific group. *.misc
is suggested to redirect current posting flow to more specific
groups and to provide a continued useful charter with further
future expansion of the hierarchy. rec.aquaria.misc will rename
and replace the current root group: rec.aquaria
RATIONALE: rec.aquaria.tech
There are many topics which are common across the
freshwater/marine dichotomy, and this split is not meant
to interfere with the interaction of the two branches of
the hobby. Many of these topics relate to the technology
of aquarium keeping. While the organisms and special
techniques vary, both freshwater 
