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Trading cards (rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)
From rra@radon.stanford.edu Fri Jul 14 11:18:10 1995
Status: RO
Path: uunet!in1.uu.net!bounce-back
From: rra@radon.stanford.edu (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc
Subject: RFD: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorg
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 13 Jul 1995 20:19:23 -0400
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Lines: 157
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
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Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:7144 news.groups:159381 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:143821 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:19408
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
(renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)
Summary: Reorganization of rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace
into separate groups for Magic: The Gathering and
other trading-card games.
Proponents: Dave Van Domelen <dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the reorganization of the
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace. Do not vote now;
this is the discussion phase only, and voting will not begin for at least 21
days.
This RFD will be crossposted to the following concerned groups:
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups,
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, rec.games.trading-cards.misc
Followups have been set to news.groups and all discussion should take place
there.
RATIONALE
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted
statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on
Usenet. The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely
difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The
Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority of
the traffic. Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way, and it
is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the first screen
of the post which game the post concerns.
The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts
concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be
found by interested readers. A beneficial side effect of this would be
to reduce off-topic marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc,
since the stated purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is
generally that marketplace is too full of Magic.
For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the traffic
breakdown below. For specific comments on the decision to create a .misc
group, see the separate section below.
NEWSGROUP LINES
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc Trading game card paraphernalia.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic Trading of Magic: The Gathering.
CHARTERS
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic
-----------------------------------------
This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and
auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)
related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game
published by Wizards of the Coast. Discussion of trading is also
welcome. Discussion of other aspects of the game besides trading belongs
in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate
for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this
newsgroup may be crossposted.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
----------------------------------------
This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and
auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)
related to collectible trading-card games which do not have their own
groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* hierarchy. Examples
of such games at this time include Illuminati: New World Order, Star
Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others. Discussion of trading is also
welcome. Discussion of other aspects of the games besides trading
belongs elsewhere in the rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not
appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without
their own newsgroup may be crossposted.
Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to
indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.
TRAFFIC BREAKDOWN
Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between
June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that time
span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:
Magic: the Gathering 1,090 posts
Star Trek: CCG 53 posts
Rage 27 posts
Jyhad 13 posts
INWO 9 posts
SimCity 6 posts
Star Wars 6 posts
Wyvern 6 posts
On The Edge 3 posts
Spellfire 3 posts
Bloodwars 1 post
Doomtrooper 1 post
Star of the Guardian 1 post
Warp 1 post
More than one game 16 posts
Accessories 2 posts
Off-topic 39 posts
General discussion 24 posts
Unclassified 9 posts
Split discussion 4 posts
As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of existing
traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point where postings
concerning any other game are very difficult to find. No other game has
sufficient traffic volume at this time to support its own group.
NOTE ON MISC RENAMING
Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this
proposal is actually the new group. The vast majority of the traffic in
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new .magic
group. The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the unlikely event
that the renaming passes and the other group fails, the hierarchy will
not be left without a group for trading trading-card games other than
Magic. The .magic group cannot be left as rgt-c.marketplace without
causing unnecessary confusion.
This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the
traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness and
wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.
PROCEDURE
After a discussion period of 21 to 30 days, a Call for Votes (CFV) will
be issued. The voting period will then last at least 21 days after that
time. Once the vote result is posted, there will be a 5 day waiting
period to allow for any objections to the vote to be raised. If there
are no serious objections, and if 100 more valid YES votes are received
than NO votes AND at least 2/3 of the total number of valid votes
received are YES, then the groups will be created.
If the renaming of .marketplace to .marketplace.misc passes, the
.marketplace group will be removed after a waiting period of
approximately two months, to allow time for the transition to the new
groups.
Again, DO NOT VOTE NOW. This is the discussion phase of the process, and
voting will not begin for at least 21 days.
--
Russ Allbery (rra@cs.stanford.edu) http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~rra/
From rra@radon.stanford.edu Mon Jul 31 13:43:51 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rra@radon.stanford.edu (Russ Allbery)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc
Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 31 Jul 1995 17:42:57 -0000
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Lines: 224
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <3vj4n1$6tn@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7248 news.groups:162080 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:158012 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:20571
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
(renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)
Summary: Reorganization of rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace
into separate groups for Magic: The Gathering and
other trading-card games.
Proponents: Dave Van Domelen <dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the reorganization of the
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace. Do not vote now;
this is the discussion phase only, and voting will not begin for at least 21
days.
This RFD will be crossposted to the following concerned groups:
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups,
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, rec.games.trading-cards.misc
Followups have been set to news.groups and all discussion should take place
there.
RATIONALE
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted
statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on
Usenet. The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely
difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The
Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority of
the traffic. Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way, and it
is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the first screen
of the post which game the post concerns.
The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts
concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be
found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic
into easily-distinguished subgroups. Several people have stated that
they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all
three, depending on what they are looking for.
A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic marketplace
posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated purpose for
posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that marketplace is
too full of Magic.
For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the traffic
breakdown below. For specific comments on the decision to create a .misc
group, see the separate section below.
NEWSGROUP LINES
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc Trading of trading card paraphernalia
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales Selling Magic cards
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades Trading Magic cards
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions Auctions of Magic cards
CHARTERS
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
-----------------------------------------------
This group is for the selling of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible
trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. Selling is defined
to be asking a set monetary price. Trades and auctions are specifically
not appropriate. Adding a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a
sale. Discussion of sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects
of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.*
hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this
newsgroup may be crossposted.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
------------------------------------------------
This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible
trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. Trading is defined
to be offering merchandise for other merchandise, and specifically
includes trade auctions. Sales and other types of auctions are
specifically not appropriate. Combined trade/monetary auctions may be
crossposted to the auction group. Discussion of trading is also welcome;
discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the
rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this
newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this
newsgroup may be crossposted.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
--------------------------------------------------
This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible
trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. For the purposes of
this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless they include the
possibility of a monetary bid. Sales, where no bidding is taken, and
trades are specifically not appropriate for this newsgroup. Discussion
of auctions is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game
besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy
and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.
POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY
THREE DAYS. Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often
takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site. If
your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web or ftp
site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not require
posting to this newsgroup. As this is an unmoderated newsgroup, this
request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered extremely poor
manners to violate it.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this
newsgroup may be crossposted.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
----------------------------------------
This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and
auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)
related to collectible trading-card games which do not have their own
groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* hierarchy. Examples
of such games at this time include Illuminati: New World Order, Star
Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others. Discussion of trading is also
welcome. Discussion of other aspects of the games besides trading
belongs elsewhere in the rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not
appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without
their own newsgroup may be crossposted.
Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to
indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.
TRAFFIC BREAKDOWN
Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between
June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that time
span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:
Magic: the Gathering 1,090 posts
Star Trek: CCG 53 posts
Rage 27 posts
Jyhad 13 posts
INWO 9 posts
SimCity 6 posts
Star Wars 6 posts
Wyvern 6 posts
On The Edge 3 posts
Spellfire 3 posts
Bloodwars 1 post
Doomtrooper 1 post
Star of the Guardian 1 post
Warp 1 post
More than one game 16 posts
Accessories 2 posts
Off-topic 39 posts
General discussion 24 posts
Unclassified 9 posts
Split discussion 4 posts
As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of existing
traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point where postings
concerning any other game are very difficult to find. No other game has
sufficient traffic volume at this time to support its own group.
Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades, and
auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the proponent
will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should someone wish to
do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a fairly equal
distribution among the three types of posts, although with fewer trades
than sales or auctions.
NOTE ON MISC RENAMING
Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this
proposal is actually the new group. The vast majority of the traffic in
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new .magic
groups. The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the unlikely event
that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the hierarchy will
not be left without a group for trading trading-card games other than
Magic.
This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the
traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness and
wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.
PROCEDURE
After a discussion period of 21 to 30 days, a Call for Votes (CFV) will
be issued. The voting period will then last at least 21 days after that
time. Once the vote result is posted, there will be a 5 day waiting
period to allow for any objections to the vote to be raised. If there
are no serious objections, and if 100 more valid YES votes are received
than NO votes AND at least 2/3 of the total number of valid votes
received are YES, then the groups will be created.
If the renaming of .marketplace to .marketplace.misc passes, the
.marketplace group will be removed after a waiting period of
approximately two months, to allow time for the transition to the new
groups.
Again, DO NOT VOTE NOW. This is the discussion phase of the process, and
voting will not begin for at least 21 days from the posting of the first
RFD.
--
Russ Allbery (rra@cs.stanford.edu) http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~rra/
From jjd@primenet.com Wed Aug 16 20:34:24 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: jjd@primenet.com (Jim Davis)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc
Subject: CFV: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 17 Aug 1995 00:25:49 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 249
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 8 Sep 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@primenet.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7357 news.groups:164715 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:170878 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:21955
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)
NEWSGROUP LINES
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales Selling Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades Trading Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions Auctions of Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc Trading of trading card paraphernalia.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 7 Sep 1995.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact Jim Davis <jjd@primenet.com>. For questions
about the proposed groups contact Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
or Dave Van Domelen <dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>.
RATIONALE (Submitted by the proposer)
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted
statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on
Usenet. The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely
difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The
Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority
of the traffic. Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way,
and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the
first screen of the post which game the post concerns.
The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts
concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be
found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic
into easily-distinguished subgroups. Several people have stated that
they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all
three, depending on what they are looking for.
A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic
marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated
purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that
marketplace is too full of Magic.
For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the
traffic breakdown below. For specific comments on the decision to
create a .misc group, see the separate section below.
Traffic breakdown
-----------------
Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between
June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that
time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:
Magic: the Gathering 1,090 posts
Star Trek: CCG 53 posts
Rage 27 posts
Jyhad 13 posts
INWO 9 posts
SimCity 6 posts
Star Wars 6 posts
Wyvern 6 posts
On The Edge 3 posts
Spellfire 3 posts
Bloodwars 1 post
Doomtrooper 1 post
Star of the Guardian 1 post
Warp 1 post
More than one game 16 posts
Accessories 2 posts
Off-topic 39 posts
General discussion 24 posts
Unclassified 9 posts
Split discussion 4 posts
As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of
existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point
where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find.
No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support
its own group.
Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades,
and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the
proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should
someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a
fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although
with fewer trades than sales or auctions.
Note on misc renaming
---------------------
Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this
proposal is actually the new group. The vast majority of the traffic
in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new
.magic groups. The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the
unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the
hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card
games other than Magic.
This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the
traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness
and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games
paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to
Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by
Wizards of the Coast. Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary
price. Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate. Adding
a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale. Discussion of
sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides
sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is
not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.
Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise,
and specifically includes trade auctions. Sales and other types of
auctions are specifically not appropriate. Combined trade/monetary
auctions may be crossposted to the auction group. Discussion of
trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game
besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy
and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. For
the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless
they include the possibility of a monetary bid. Sales, where no
bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this
newsgroup. Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of
other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the
rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for
this newsgroup.
POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY
THREE DAYS. Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often
takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site.
If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web
or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not
require posting to this newsgroup. As this is an unmoderated
newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered
extremely poor manners to violate it.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and
auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules,
etc.) related to collectible trading-card games which do not have
their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.*
hierarchy. Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati:
New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others.
Discussion of trading is also welcome. Discussion of other aspects of
the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the
rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this
newsgroup.
Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without
their own newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion
groups is specifically not appropriate.
Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to
indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.
HOW TO VOTE
Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything
below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these
lines and do not change the group names.
Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a
YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it. If
you don't want to vote on a particular group, just leave the space
blank. Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote
characters (">") that your reply inserts.
Then mail the ballot to: voting@primenet.com
Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorg Ballot <DEN-0001> (Don't remove this marker)
Give your real name here:
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
[ ] rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
[ ] rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
[ ] rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
[ ] rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the
outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting
program. You should receive an automatic acknowledgment of your vote
within three days. If you do not, contact the votetaker about the
problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is
registered correctly.
Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.
Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final
voting results list.
Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid
vote.
Anonymous votes will not be accepted. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered anonymous votes. (The vote must be mailed
directly from the voter to the votetaker.)
In cases where voting fraud is determined to have occurred, it is
standard operating procedure to delete ALL votes submitted by the
violator.
If you give anyone a copy of the CFV, it must be whole and unmodified.
When in doubt, ask the votetaker.
OFFICIAL SOURCES OF THE CFV
The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the Usenet
newsgroups to which it is posted by the votetaker, including
news.announce.newgroups, and the votetaker.
From jjd@primenet.com Fri Aug 25 17:20:37 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: jjd@primenet.com (Jim Davis)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 25 Aug 1995 21:20:33 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 261
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 8 Sep 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@primenet.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7409 news.groups:165913 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:177788 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:22789
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)
NEWSGROUP LINES:
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales Selling Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades Trading Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions Auctions of Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc Trading of trading card paraphernalia.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 7 Sep 1995.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact Jim Davis <jjd@primenet.com>. For questions
about the proposed groups contact Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
or Dave Van Domelen <dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>.
RATIONALE: (Submitted by the proposer)
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted
statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on
Usenet. The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely
difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The
Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority
of the traffic. Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way,
and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the
first screen of the post which game the post concerns.
The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts
concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be
found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic
into easily-distinguished subgroups. Several people have stated that
they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all
three, depending on what they are looking for.
A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic
marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated
purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that
marketplace is too full of Magic.
For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the
traffic breakdown below. For specific comments on the decision to
create a .misc group, see the separate section below.
Traffic breakdown
-----------------
Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between
June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that
time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:
Magic: the Gathering 1,090 posts
Star Trek: CCG 53 posts
Rage 27 posts
Jyhad 13 posts
INWO 9 posts
SimCity 6 posts
Star Wars 6 posts
Wyvern 6 posts
On The Edge 3 posts
Spellfire 3 posts
Bloodwars 1 post
Doomtrooper 1 post
Star of the Guardian 1 post
Warp 1 post
More than one game 16 posts
Accessories 2 posts
Off-topic 39 posts
General discussion 24 posts
Unclassified 9 posts
Split discussion 4 posts
As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of
existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point
where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find.
No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support
its own group.
Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades,
and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the
proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should
someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a
fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although
with fewer trades than sales or auctions.
Note on misc renaming
---------------------
Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this
proposal is actually the new group. The vast majority of the traffic
in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new
.magic groups. The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the
unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the
hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card
games other than Magic.
This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the
traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness
and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games
paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to
Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by
Wizards of the Coast. Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary
price. Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate. Adding
a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale. Discussion of
sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides
sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is
not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.
Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise,
and specifically includes trade auctions. Sales and other types of
auctions are specifically not appropriate. Combined trade/monetary
auctions may be crossposted to the auction group. Discussion of
trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game
besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy
and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. For
the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless
they include the possibility of a monetary bid. Sales, where no
bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this
newsgroup. Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of
other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the
rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for
this newsgroup.
POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY
THREE DAYS. Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often
takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site.
If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web
or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not
require posting to this newsgroup. As this is an unmoderated
newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered
extremely poor manners to violate it.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and
auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules,
etc.) related to collectible trading-card games which do not have
their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.*
hierarchy. Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati:
New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others.
Discussion of trading is also welcome. Discussion of other aspects of
the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the
rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this
newsgroup.
Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without
their own newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion
groups is specifically not appropriate.
Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to
indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE
Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything
below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these
lines and do not change the group names.
Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a
YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it. If
you don't want to vote on a particular group, just leave the space
blank. Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote
characters (">") that your reply inserts.
Then mail the ballot to: voting@primenet.com
Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorg Ballot <DEN-0002> (Don't remove this marker)
Give your real name here:
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
[ ] rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
[ ] rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
[ ] rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
[ ] rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the
outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting
program. You should receive an automatic acknowledgment of your vote
within three days. If you do not, contact the votetaker about the
problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is
registered correctly.
Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.
Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final
voting results list.
Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid
vote.
Anonymous votes will not be accepted. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered anonymous votes. (The vote must be mailed
directly from the voter to the votetaker.)
In cases where voting fraud is determined to have occurred, it is
standard operating procedure to delete ALL votes submitted by the
violator.
If you give anyone a copy of the CFV, it must be whole and unmodified.
When in doubt, ask the votetaker.
OFFICIAL SOURCES OF THE CFV
The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the Usenet
newsgroups to which it is posted by the votetaker, including
news.announce.newgroups, and the votetaker.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorg Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rob@saluton.iaf.nl Rob van Riel
xbruce.bowen@template.com Bruce H. Bowen
From jjd@primenet.com Tue Sep 12 15:40:25 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: jjd@primenet.com (Jim Davis)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc
Subject: CFV CANCELLED: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 12 Sep 1995 19:40:21 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 7
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg-cancel@uunet.uu.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7487 news.groups:167303 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:190201 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:24537
The current vote on the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace
reorganization has been canceled because of email problems at the
votetaker's site. A new Call For Votes will be sent out soon. Since
the vote will be starting over from the beginning you will need to
vote again; ballots from the current vote will not be carried over to
the new vote. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
From votes@bagend.atl.ga.us Tue Sep 12 15:41:48 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <votes@bagend.atl.ga.us>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc,rec.games.trading-cards.announce
Subject: CFV: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization (revote)
Followup-To: poster
Date: 12 Sep 1995 19:41:45 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 249
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 4 Oct 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <12373.55866.15360@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: Jan Isley <votes@bagend.atl.ga.us>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7498 news.groups:167314 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:190204 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:24538 rec.games.trading-cards.announce:230
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)
Newsgroups lines:
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales Selling Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades Trading Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions Auctions of Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc Trading trading card stuff.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Oct 1995.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Dave Van Domelen <dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE:
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted
statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on
Usenet. The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely
difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The
Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority
of the traffic. Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way,
and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the
first screen of the post which game the post concerns.
The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts
concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be
found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic
into easily-distinguished subgroups. Several people have stated that
they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all
three, depending on what they are looking for.
A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic
marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated
purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that
marketplace is too full of Magic.
For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the
traffic breakdown below. For specific comments on the decision to
create a .misc group, see the separate section below.
Traffic breakdown
-----------------
Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between
June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that
time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:
Magic: the Gathering 1,090 posts
Star Trek: CCG 53 posts
Rage 27 posts
Jyhad 13 posts
INWO 9 posts
SimCity 6 posts
Star Wars 6 posts
Wyvern 6 posts
On The Edge 3 posts
Spellfire 3 posts
Bloodwars 1 post
Doomtrooper 1 post
Star of the Guardian 1 post
Warp 1 post
More than one game 16 posts
Accessories 2 posts
Off-topic 39 posts
General discussion 24 posts
Unclassified 9 posts
Split discussion 4 posts
As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of
existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point
where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find.
No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support
its own group.
Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades,
and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the
proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should
someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a
fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although
with fewer trades than sales or auctions.
Note on misc renaming
---------------------
Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this
proposal is actually the new group. The vast majority of the traffic
in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new
.magic groups. The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the
unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the
hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card
games other than Magic.
This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the
traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness
and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games
paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to
Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by
Wizards of the Coast. Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary
price. Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate. Adding
a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale. Discussion of
sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides
sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is
not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.
Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise,
and specifically includes trade auctions. Sales and other types of
auctions are specifically not appropriate. Combined trade/monetary
auctions may be crossposted to the auction group. Discussion of
trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game
besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy
and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. For
the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless
they include the possibility of a monetary bid. Sales, where no
bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this
newsgroup. Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of
other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the
rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for
this newsgroup.
POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY
THREE DAYS. Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often
takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site.
If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web
or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not
require posting to this newsgroup. As this is an unmoderated
newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered
extremely poor manners to violate it.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and
auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules,
etc.) related to collectible trading-card games which do not have
their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.*
hierarchy. Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati:
New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others.
Discussion of trading is also welcome. Discussion of other aspects of
the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the
rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this
newsgroup.
Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without
their own newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion
groups is specifically not appropriate.
Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to
indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE:
You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:
votes@bagend.atl.ga.us
Please do not assume that just replying to this message will work.
Check the address before you mail your vote. Your mail message
should contain one and only one of the following vote statements
for each group you wish to vote on:
I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid
votes for the total count.
If your mail software does not indicate your real name, please also
include the following statement and add your name (on the same line).
Give your real name here:
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:
Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes
must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered to be anonymous votes.
Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will
be published in the final voting results post.
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted
to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, ask the votetaker.
--
Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
votes to: <votes@bagend.atl.ga.us>
From votes@bagend.atl.ga.us Fri Sep 22 15:17:53 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <votes@bagend.atl.ga.us>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc,rec.games.trading-cards.announce
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization (revote)
Followup-To: poster
Date: 22 Sep 1995 19:17:47 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 260
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 4 Oct 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <43v24r$s31@rodan.UU.NET>
Reply-To: Jan Isley <votes@bagend.atl.ga.us>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7592 news.groups:168166 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:197908 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:25655 rec.games.trading-cards.announce:238
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)
Newsgroups lines:
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales Selling Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades Trading Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions Auctions of Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc Trading trading card stuff.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Oct 1995.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Dave Van Domelen <dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE:
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted
statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on
Usenet. The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely
difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The
Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority
of the traffic. Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way,
and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the
first screen of the post which game the post concerns.
The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts
concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be
found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic
into easily-distinguished subgroups. Several people have stated that
they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all
three, depending on what they are looking for.
A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic
marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated
purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that
marketplace is too full of Magic.
For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the
traffic breakdown below. For specific comments on the decision to
create a .misc group, see the separate section below.
Traffic breakdown
-----------------
Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between
June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that
time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:
Magic: the Gathering 1,090 posts
Star Trek: CCG 53 posts
Rage 27 posts
Jyhad 13 posts
INWO 9 posts
SimCity 6 posts
Star Wars 6 posts
Wyvern 6 posts
On The Edge 3 posts
Spellfire 3 posts
Bloodwars 1 post
Doomtrooper 1 post
Star of the Guardian 1 post
Warp 1 post
More than one game 16 posts
Accessories 2 posts
Off-topic 39 posts
General discussion 24 posts
Unclassified 9 posts
Split discussion 4 posts
As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of
existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point
where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find.
No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support
its own group.
Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades,
and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the
proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should
someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a
fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although
with fewer trades than sales or auctions.
Note on misc renaming
---------------------
Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this
proposal is actually the new group. The vast majority of the traffic
in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new
.magic groups. The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the
unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the
hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card
games other than Magic.
This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the
traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness
and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games
paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to
Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by
Wizards of the Coast. Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary
price. Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate. Adding
a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale. Discussion of
sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides
sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is
not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.
Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise,
and specifically includes trade auctions. Sales and other types of
auctions are specifically not appropriate. Combined trade/monetary
auctions may be crossposted to the auction group. Discussion of
trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game
besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy
and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. For
the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless
they include the possibility of a monetary bid. Sales, where no
bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this
newsgroup. Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of
other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the
rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for
this newsgroup.
POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY
THREE DAYS. Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often
takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site.
If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web
or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not
require posting to this newsgroup. As this is an unmoderated
newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered
extremely poor manners to violate it.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and
auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules,
etc.) related to collectible trading-card games which do not have
their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.*
hierarchy. Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati:
New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others.
Discussion of trading is also welcome. Discussion of other aspects of
the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the
rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this
newsgroup.
Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without
their own newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion
groups is specifically not appropriate.
Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to
indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE:
You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:
votes@bagend.atl.ga.us
Please do not assume that just replying to this message will work.
Check the address before you mail your vote. Your mail message
should contain one and only one of the following vote statements
for each group you wish to vote on:
I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid
votes for the total count.
If your mail software does not indicate your real name, please also
include the following statement and add your name (on the same line).
Voter name:
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:
Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes
must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered to be anonymous votes.
Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will
be published in the final voting results post.
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted
to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, ask the votetaker.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* Bounce List - No need to revote
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
HART.FRANKLIN*SMO2@bengate.usa.com J. Andrew Hart
minnotte@sunfs.math.usu.edu Michael Minnotte
Votes in error
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
dunville@ix.netcom.com Patricia Dunville
! No vote statement in message
--
Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us> | Running UseVote 3.0
votes to: <votes@bagend.atl.ga.us> | Powered by FreeBSD
From votes@bagend.atl.ga.us Wed Oct 4 03:33:41 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <votes@bagend.atl.ga.us>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc
Subject: RESULT: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization (revote) all groups pass
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 4 Oct 1995 07:33:33 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 622
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <44tdcd$l21@rodan.UU.NET>
References: <43v24r$s31@rodan.UU.NET><12373.55866.15360@uunet.uu.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7669 news.groups:169381 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:206459 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:26779
RESULT
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales passes 360:26
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades passes 359:29
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions passes 353:32
unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc passes 363:25
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
360 26 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
359 29 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
353 32 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
363 25 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
5 invalid votes
Newsgroups lines:
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales Selling Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades Trading Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions Auctions of Magic cards.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc Trading trading card stuff.
Voting closed on 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Oct 1995.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Dave Van Domelen <dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE: all groups
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted
statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on
Usenet. The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely
difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The
Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority
of the traffic. Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way,
and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the
first screen of the post which game the post concerns.
The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts
concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be
found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic
into easily-distinguished subgroups. Several people have stated that
they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all
three, depending on what they are looking for.
A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic
marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated
purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that
marketplace is too full of Magic.
For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the
traffic breakdown below. For specific comments on the decision to
create a .misc group, see the separate section below.
Traffic breakdown
-----------------
Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between
June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that
time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:
Magic: the Gathering 1,090 posts
Star Trek: CCG 53 posts
Rage 27 posts
Jyhad 13 posts
INWO 9 posts
SimCity 6 posts
Star Wars 6 posts
Wyvern 6 posts
On The Edge 3 posts
Spellfire 3 posts
Bloodwars 1 post
Doomtrooper 1 post
Star of the Guardian 1 post
Warp 1 post
More than one game 16 posts
Accessories 2 posts
Off-topic 39 posts
General discussion 24 posts
Unclassified 9 posts
Split discussion 4 posts
As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of
existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point
where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find.
No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support
its own group.
Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades,
and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the
proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should
someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a
fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although
with fewer trades than sales or auctions.
Note on misc renaming
---------------------
Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this
proposal is actually the new group. The vast majority of the traffic
in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new
.magic groups. The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the
unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the
hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card
games other than Magic.
This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the
traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness
and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales
This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games
paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to
Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by
Wizards of the Coast. Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary
price. Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate. Adding
a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale. Discussion of
sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides
sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is
not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades
This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.
Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise,
and specifically includes trade auctions. Sales and other types of
auctions are specifically not appropriate. Combined trade/monetary
auctions may be crossposted to the auction group. Discussion of
trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game
besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy
and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions
This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other
components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a
collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. For
the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless
they include the possibility of a monetary bid. Sales, where no
bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this
newsgroup. Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of
other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the
rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for
this newsgroup.
POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY
THREE DAYS. Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often
takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site.
If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web
or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not
require posting to this newsgroup. As this is an unmoderated
newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered
extremely poor manners to violate it.
Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for
this newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion groups
is specifically not appropriate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc
This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and
auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules,
etc.) related to collectible trading-card games which do not have
their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.*
hierarchy. Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati:
New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others.
Discussion of trading is also welcome. Discussion of other aspects of
the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the
rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this
newsgroup.
Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without
their own newsgroup may be crossposted. Crossposting to discussion
groups is specifically not appropriate.
Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to
indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.
END CHARTER.
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* Final Vote Ack
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc ------+
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions -----+|
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades ----+||
rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales ---+|||
||||
075557@edna.cc.swin.edu.au Tarragon Moon Allen YYYY
5PU6HYDET@VMS.CSD.MU.EDU Trevor Hyde YYYY
acd@hotld.att.com Andrew Durston YYYY
Achim_Reinhardt@ac3.maus.de Achim Reinhardt YYYY
Adam.Kake@dia.govt.nz Adam Kake YYYY
ago@tinkerbell.escape.de Andrea Gondring YYYY
akandas@MIT.EDU Angelo Kandas YYYY
akilgour@Thinkage.On.CA Anita Kilgour YNNY
Alan.Nichols@Ebay.Sun.COM Alan Nichols YYYY
alan@pinesoft.demon.co.uk Alan Glover YYYY
alanh@gibbs.oit.unc.edu Alan Hoyle YYYY
alex@worldhouse.magic.ca Alexander von Thorn YYYY
alittlew@reed.edu Jesse Littlewood YYYY
allen@genome.Stanford.EDU Ed Allen YYYY
amerritt@armltd.co.uk Andy Merritt YYYY
amg@cmprime.att.com Alan Gopin YYYY
andij@andi.tricbbs.fn.sub.org Andreas Jellinghaus YYYY
andrewh@netcom.com Andrew Hung YYYY
andrewhe@halcyon.com Andrew Herington YYYY
Andrew_Brecher@brown.edu Andrew Brecher YYYY
andyl@harlequin.com Andy Latto YYYY
archer@frmug.fr.net Vincent Archer YYYY
artki@bbs.annex.com Arthur Kimes YYYY
asalter@geko.com.au Adrian Salter YYYY
ashton@netcom.com Ashton Eidolon -YYY
barth@wam.umd.edu Kevin Barth YYYY
basil@cs.ualberta.ca Basil Vandegriend YYYY
baswell@rintintin.Colorado.EDU Shaper Y-YY
bde@apk.net Bryan Ebersole YYYY
beanish@netcom.com Jeremy York YYYY
beedge@vt.edu Ellen Edge YYYY
bholzm1@icarus.cc.uic.edu Burt N Holzman NNNN
bigal@recom.com Alan Fisher Y---
bitonti@scsn.net Tracy S. Bitonti YYYY
bjv@herbison.com B.J. Herbison ---Y
blore@cloverleaf.com Steven Howard YYYY
boyes@forty2.enet.dec.com Mark Boyes YYYY
Brian.R.Vickers@jpl.nasa.gov Brian Vickers YYYY
bros@galileo.pi.infn.it Alberto Verdini YYYY
brus@netcom.com Brus Wasson YYYY
bstripp@interaccess.com Bill Stripp YYYY
bura@laforia.ibp.fr Stephane Bura YYYY
burnsb@GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU Bradley R Burns YYYY
c576653@cclabs.missouri.edu Christopher L. Weeks YYYY
cadesjar@csclub.uwaterloo.ca Curtis "Chewbacca" Desjardins YYNY
careya@PEAK.ORG Andrew Carey NNNN
carl@skatter.USask.Ca Carl Norum YYYY
cdaveb@uclink.berkeley.edu Caroline Davis Burstein YYYY
chaos@cs.wisc.edu Alan De Smet YYYY
charlest@actrix.gen.nz Tony Charles YYYY
christalon_a@vnabrw.ENET.dec.com Andreas Christalon YYYY
christt@ifi.uio.no Christian Tellefsen YYYY
CJBOPS@SLC.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Cliff Blanchette YYYY
cjp@mercury.interpath.net Charles Poirier YYYY
cknight@mailhost.nmt.edu Chris-top-her YYYY
cody@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU Cody M. Stumpo YYYY
coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU Michele Coleman YYYY
coolhand@Glue.umd.edu Kevin Scaldeferri YYYY
craig@pop.uky.edu J. Craig Brunson NNNY
croftj@qdpio.nth.dpi.qld.gov.au John Croft YYYY
crouchkp@flidh103.delcoelect.com Kenneth P Crouch ----
croyle@fwi.com Don Croyle NNNN
csaamw@urc.tue.nl Michiel Wijers NNNN
cyndi@ensuing.com Cynthia Buffum YYYY
d3tapani@dtek.chalmers.se Tapani Utriainen -Y--
DALEKG@ids.net Dale King YYYY
Damian.ODea@dsto.defence.gov.au Damian O'Dea YYYY
dan@cafws3.eng.uci.edu Dan Harkless YYYY
dave@rsn.com Dave Anderson YYYY
davidt@kayesmith.com David Thureson YYYY
dbd@panacea.phys.utk.edu David DeLaney YYYY
dcka@village.ios.com Dimitri Katsaros YYYY
deejay@netcom.com Jack Wilson NNNY
delyria@sccsi.com Tony DeLyria YYYY
devjoe@wilma.che.utexas.edu Joseph W. DeVincentis YYYY
diachun@arris.com Justin Diachun YYYY
Dick.Zelvelder@nos.nl Dick Zelvelder ---Y
djdlab@bimcore.emory.edu Brett A. Burkholder YYYY
djt@lightside.com D. J. Trindle YYYY
djt@rpiv.mc.duke.edu Dan Tomso YYYY
dkeeney@amgen.com Darby Keeney YYYY
DLatz@aol.com David Latz YYYY
doehne@cse.ogi.edu Thomas A. Doehne YYYY
dolor@netcom.com YYYY
dpbrown@marconi.ih.att.com Dennis P. Brown YYYY
dperrin@mag7.com Don Perrin YYYY
dpeters@bnr.ca david (d.) peters YYYY
dresnick@MIT.EDU David Resnick YYYY
drichard@manawatu.gen.nz Dean Richards YYYY
drseuss@crl.com David Bedno YYYY
duerr@MIT.EDU YYYY
durnik@indirect.com Michael Bahr YYYY
dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Dave Van Domelen YYYY
dwa@mcs.com Douglas W. Anderson YYYY
eachus@spectre.mitre.org Robert I. Eachus YYYY
eagle@cyclone.Stanford.EDU Russ Allbery YYYY
eahg083@ea.oac.uci.edu Robert Blackman YYYY
earther@eskimo.com Steve Earth YYYY
edge@netcom.com Jake Edge YYYY
efreet@shadow.net David Doust YNNY
ekoman@u.washington.edu Eric Oster YYYY
elston@prairienet.org John M. Elston YYYY
eney@cs.tu-berlin.de Rene Reichardt YYYY
ENGJS@cc.newcastle.edu.au James Smith YYYY
ereuss@cs.tufts.edu R. Eric Reuss YYYY
erica@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU Erica L. Frank YYYY
Erich.Selna@Eng.Sun.COM Erich Selna YYYY
erwin@zen.et.tudelft.nl E.C. Abrahamse -YYY
eschwart@csc.com Gene Schwartzman YYYY
ewalz@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu Beth Walz YYYY
ewwa@chattanooga.net J. Andrew Lipscomb YYYY
fairbank@muhthr.hlo.dec.com YYYY
felixx@ucscb.UCSC.EDU David Michael Mendelsohn YYYY
Flaminio@aol.com Bob Flaminio YYYY
folini@grfn.org Christian Folini YYYY
forster@ksu.ksu.edu Glyn Forster YYYY
Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM Fred Timm YYYY
fred_s@cisco.com Frederick Scott YYYY
ftjdc@aurora.alaska.edu Hal Tippens YYY-
fuy1@gl.umbc.edu YYYY
f_gingr@alcor.concordia.ca Frederic Gingras aka - The Raven - YYY-
GairH@megaweb.com Joe Helfrich YYYY
gaughan@netcom.com Pete Gaughan YYYY
geb@mindspring.com Geb Buxton YYYY
gee@math.berkeley.edu Randall M! Gee YYYY
geiser.peter@ch.swissbank.com Peter M. Geiser YYYY
ghsst6+@pitt.edu Geoffrey H Spear NNNN
gilbe034@maroon.tc.umn.edu Eric Gilbertson YYYY
goodman@husc.harvard.edu Richard Goodman YYYY
gosselin@tpsys.ENET.dec.com Dan Gosselin YYYY
grognard@world.std.com Allen Rines YYYY
gryphon@healer.com Coranth Gryphon YYYY
gt6249c@prism.gatech.edu Bin Chen YYYY
guthrie@math.upenn.edu John Guthrie YYYY
gweiss@u.washington.edu Gregory Weiss YYYY
HART.FRANKLIN*SMO2@bengate.usa.com J. Andrew Hart YYYY
havoc@eznet.net Patrick A. Ludwig YYYY
hbenkiel@mindspring.com Harry Benkiel YYYY
hebert@uclink.berkeley.edu Brian Hebert YYYY
hedden@cs.utk.edu YYYY
hermit@cats.ucsc.edu William R. Ward NNNN
heustess@mail.utexas.edu Brent Heustess YYYY
hoffman@unm.edu Scott Hoffman YYYY
holcomg@PEAK.ORG Gordon Holcomb YYYY
hrose@rocza.kei.com Helen Trillian Rose YYYY
hunt@dg-rtp.dg.com Greg Hunt YYYY
hymie@panix.com Hyman Rosen YYYY
irilyth@infersys.com Josh Smith YYYY
ISCLADOC@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU ALLAN T. GROHE, JR. YYYY
ixm8@po.CWRU.Edu Innate Mak YYYY
j.boes@zds.com Jeff Boes NNNY
J.Yeates@sussex.ac.uk John Yeates YYYY
jabram@ichips.intel.com Jeff Abramson NNNY
jackh@postoffice.ptd.net John Huntington ---Y
jan.coekelberghs@ping.be Jan Coekelberghs ---N
Jasper.M.Rosenberg@williams.edu Jasper M. Rosenberg YYYY
jcfiala@ix.netcom.com John C. Fiala YYYY
jcgarner@mmm.com Joseph C. Garner YYYY
jcurry@ee.net Jeff Curry YYYY
JDMARQUART@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu Joshua Marquart YYYY
jdunville@mail.hq.faa.gov Joe. Dunville YY--
jeff@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Jeff D. Williamson YYYY
JEFFC@trader.com Jefferson P. Carey YYYY
jenanne@freenet.ufl.edu Jen Hassler YYYY
jens@cd.chalmers.se Jens Schou YYYY
JEREMY@delphi.com Jeremy White YYYY
jet@abulafia.genmagic.com J. Eric Townsend YYYY
jfowler@email.unc.edu John Fowler YYYY
jgrace@netcom.com Joseph Grace YYYY
jkernodl@NMSU.Edu Joseph H. Kernodle YYYY
jlagrave@aris.ss.uci.edu John Lagrave YYYY
jm@styx.ios.com Joe Mucchiello YYYY
jmasters@selectnet.com Jon Masters YYYY
jmcclure@e-mail.kdp-baptist.louisville.edu James R. McClure Jr. YYYY
jml10@cornell.edu James Lebak YYYY
jmrobins@sccs.swarthmore.edu Joe Robins YYYY
joe@decoy.uoregon.edu Joe St Sauver (joe@decoy.uoregon.edu) NNNN
johnca@netcom.com John Abbe YYYY
johnson@ccnet.com Mark Johnson YYYY
johnteti@kear.tdsnet.com John Teti Jr. YYYY
jolovicl@iia.org Leah and Shawn Johnson YYYY
jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se Jonas Schiott YYYY
jonboy@io.org Trevor Tymchuk YYYY
jonema@wwc.edu Mark Jones YYYY
jpatters@mole.uvm.edu Jake Patterson YYYY
jricker@primenet.com John R. Ricker Jr. YYYY
jrm@globalvillag.com John R. MacWilliamson NNNN
jswebste@pams.ncsu.edu Jeff Webster YYYY
jtrawick@utep.edu Joseph E. Trawick YYYY
kahler@netcom.com William T. Kahler YYYY
kajaste@proffa.cc.tut.fi Atro Kajaste YYYY
kam@nada.kth.se Klas Mellbourn YYYY
KAREN_BECHTEL@HP-PaloAlto-om4.om.hp.com YYYY
Karsten@minotaur.inka.de Karsten Krieg YYYY
kavfan@gate.net Malcolm Rose YYYY
kchung@Synopsys.COM Kevin Chung YYYY
kdk@template.com David Kiker YYYY
kirbyk@PEAK.ORG Kirby Krueger YYYY
kjetilsv@ifi.uio.no Kjetil Svendsberget YYYY
klr8328@usl.edu Kenny Reed YYYY
kmfehlbe@ouray.cudenver.edu Kevin Michael Fehlberg YYYY
kodai@winternet.com Gerald Dokka NNNY
kooter@animal.blarg.net Michael C Kuczi YYYY
kraby@ix.netcom.com Kenny Raby YYYY
ksinn@pts.mot.com Kenny Sinn YYYY
KURILLA_TP@FTSYS1.LLNL.GOV YYYY
kuritzky@math.berkeley.edu Eric Kuritzky YYYY
kwan@CS.Cornell.EDU Alan Kwan YYYY
kwilhite@hiwaay.net Keith Wilhite YYYY
kwt@dana.ucc.nau.edu Kevin W. Thornton YYYY
L.Lettieri@agora.stm.it Luca Lettieri YYYY
lance@rahul.net Lance K. Chun NNNN
lantzr@physio-control.com Lantz Rowland YYYY
larryr@cs.umr.edu Larry Reeves YYYY
lavonius@cc.helsinki.fi Ville Lavonius YYYY
lees@ll.mit.edu Steven Lee YYYY
leeu@celsiustech.se Leif Euren YYYY
leondl@southwind.net Leon D. Leithoff YYYY
lilzero@astral.magic.ca LittleZero YYYY
list-votes@dream.hb.north.de Martin Schr"oder YYYY
lkvarda@booboo.engr.sgi.com Lisa Kvarda YYYY
lldavis@facility.cs.utah.edu Leo Davis YYYY
lonnie@lexis-nexis.com Lonnie Barnett YYYY
lonsager@abwam.com Lars Onsager, lonsager@abwam.com YYYY
lorch@warren.CS.Berkeley.EDU Jacob R. Lorch YYYY
lsyschar@artsci.wustl.edu Christopher E. Sanders YYYY
m18117@mitre.org Daniel Sharp YYYY
madalton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Mike Dalton YYYY
maddog@mailhost.hooked.net Erik Allen YYYY
maf4003@tam2000.tamu.edu Michael Fitch YYYY
mariacb@ix.netcom.com Maria C. Boyington YYYY
markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu Andrew Markiel YYYY
martin@trefoil.demon.co.uk Martin Higham YYYY
Martin_Gerrard@MBnet.MB.CA Ken Gerrard YYYY
master.deckbuilder@iwg.nl Arjen Gnodde YYYN
mbarden@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Michael C. Barden YYYY
mdulcey@pryder.pn.com Mark J. Dulcey YYYY
meikoh@mailhost.nmt.edu meiko-chan YYYY
mellnger@acs.bu.edu Peter Meilinger YYYY
menoth@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Michael Edward Noth YYYY
michael@amscons.com Michael Bryan YYYY
mikekn@moberg.com Mike Knauer YYYY
mike_pusateri@studio.disney.com Michael Pusateri YYYY
minnotte@sunfs.math.usu.edu Michael Minnotte YYYY
mjc@wag.caltech.edu Matt J. Carlson YYYY
mjs@crl.com Mark Sironi YYYY
mkelly@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Michael T. Kelly YYYY
mkwong@sdcc13.ucsd.edu Myra Wong NNNY
mmackinn@escape.ca Michael MacKinnon YYYY
mmt@RedBrick.COM M Mike Taksar KC6ZPS ----
mneme@dorsai.dorsai.org Joshua Kronengold YYYY
moriah@io.com Mike Sullivan YYYY
mortiz@scf.usc.edu Mariela Ortiz YYYY
mpb4@cornell.edu Mike Brezsnyak YYYY
mqpippin@starbase.neosoft.com Geoffrey Todd Walker YYYY
mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu Mike Marcelais YNYY
mueller@hp56.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de Klaus Mueller YYYY
mwdaniel@students.uiuc.edu Michael W. Daniels YYYY
nad@malibu.aurora.com Nancy Durgin YYYY
nat@vivid.com Nat Johnson YYYY
nedbush@gate.net Charles E. Bush YYYY
neurolab@pavlov.psyc.queensu.ca Abd al-Azrad YYYY
nickolof@scf.usc.edu Michael J. Nickoloff YYYY
ninja@netspace.net.au Piers Hearn YYYY
olav@viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar NNNN
olavs@pvv.unit.no Olav Sxyseth YYYY
Ollivier.Robert@hsc.fr.net Ollivier Robert YYYY
orc@pell.com david parsons YYYN
pads@UDel.Edu Stephen Padbury YYYY
patl@lcs.mit.edu Patrick J. LoPresti NNNN
patnoble@lamar.ColoState.EDU Patricia Noble YYYY
patrick@cs.mun.ca Patrick Martin YYYY
PATTERSON@NCG02.GEISMAR.basf-corp.com Patterson, John YYYY
pete@bottom.manawatu.gen.nz Peter Flynn YYYY
PeteCoady@aol.com Pete Coady YYYY
peter_hentges@adc.com Peter Hentges YYNY
pettit@acm.org Mark K. Pettit YYYY
pgrace@world.std.com Peter Grace YYYN
phil@miracle.com Phil Hill YYYY
phoenix@filoli.com Michael David Phoenix YYYY
PNURNBER@carleton.edu Paul D. Nurnberger YYYY
Polaris01@aol.com Ron Zalewski YYYY
possum@magicnet.net Peter J. McCarthy YYYY
prattesw@phoenix.sas.muohio.edu Steve Pratte YYYY
pvgool@IAEhv.nl Paul van Gool YYYY
R.Alphey@agriculture.unimelb.edu.au Russell J. Alphey YYYY
ralph@spss.com Ralph Brendler YYYY
ralphd@netinfo.com.au Ralph Dickey YYYY
rdl@io.org Robin D. Laws YYYY
Reg.Mitchell@sydpcug.org.au Grant Anthony Mitchell YYYY
renegade@qabalah.cac.psu.edu Rick Rechowicz YYYY
rflowers@nccu.edu robbin flowers YYYY
rforster@on-ramp.ior.com Rich Forster YYYY
richard@ifi.uio.no Richard Moe YYYY
richard@smok.demon.co.uk Richard Clyne YYYY
richards@biochem.wisc.edu John Richards YYYY
richd@VNET.IBM.COM Richard Daugherty YYYY
rick@bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller YYNY
riffraff@mindspring.com Gale Barnett YYYY
RJonesII@aol.com Roosevelt Jones II ---Y
RKBA@eworld.com YYYY
rmg@galactose.mc.duke.edu Robert M. Garrett YYYY
rmills@ccd.harris.com Richard C. Mills YYYY
robd@hydra.cray.com Rob Derrick YYYY
robyn@ai.mit.edu Robyn Kozierok YYYY
ron@brain.moberg.com Ron Ronsayro YYYY
roshne@faerun.sojourn.com Rod Shelton YYYY
rschuler@iastate.edu Rodney Schuler YYYY
rsmits@ham.island.net Robert Smits NNNN
rspencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Roxanne P. Spencer YYYY
rtm@magi.com Rob McDougall YYYY
rz71@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de Frank Niemeyer YYYY
S.Richardson@ctpm.uq.edu.au Steven Richardson YYYY
sascha.meinrath@yale.edu Sascha Meinrath -Y--
sauerman@Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE Gunnar Sauermann YYYY
ScottLores@aol.com Scott Lores YYYY
scotts@ide.com Scott A. Stewart YYYY
scy26@chelsea.ios.com John Yu YYYY
sdong@io.org Sandy Dong -Y--
sew@hpfisew.fc.hp.com Sheila Davis YYYY
sewalter@oratmail.cfa.ilstu.edu Jacob Olbert YYYY
sgoodman@minerva.cis.yale.edu Steve Goodman YYYY
sgriffin@dozen.win-uk.net Steve Griffin YYYY
shadow@cube.net Alexander Siegelin YYYY
sharvey@magmacom.com Sean Harvey YYYY
shields@tembel.org Michael Shields YYYY
shoyt@ccs.neu.edu Seth Hoyt YYYY
Shrisha.Rao@lambada.oit.unc.edu Shrisha Rao NNNN
simpson@netcom.com Bob Simpson YYYY
skarl@wam.umd.edu karl scheirer YYYY
skitchen@mars.superlink.net Scott Kitchen YYYY
smarry@turing.toronto.edu Smarasderagd NNNN
smlarabe@uci.edu Scott M. Larabee YYYY
snark@wizards.com Dave Howell YYYY
sos@oz.plymouth.edu Steffan O'Sullivan YYYY
sparker@u.washington.edu Susan Parker YYYY
spatters@inmind.com Stephen Patterson YYYN
speed@cs.washington.edu Erik Selberg YYYY
splatt@equinox.shaysnet.com Eric Mulvihill YYYY
spudkin@halcyon.com Dylan F. Walsh YYYY
Srone@aol.com YYYY
staff@rabbit.augs.se Staffan Friberg YYYY
stainles@bga.com Dwight Brown NNNN
starfish@u.washington.edu Sarah Skovronsky YYYY
Stefan.Hermens@uni-duesseldorf.de Stephan Hermens YYYY
stefansk@uenics.evansville.edu Andrew Stefanski YYYY
sternkin@netcom.com Michael J. Stern YYYY
stolk@sidonia.xs4all.nl Abraham Theodorus Stolk YYYY
stu@valinor.mythical.com Stu Labovitz YYYY
stuarts@empress.gvg.TEK.COM Stuart Smith YYYY
szwanger@gnu.ai.mit.edu Steven Zwanger YYYY
t2loew@TWI.CH Alexander Loew YYYY
tabst22+@pitt.edu Tod Beardsley YYYY
tdr@tac.xs4all.nl Tom de Ruyter YYYY
TeachMrT@aol.com Bill Toscano YYYY
techint@winternet.com Technical Intelligence-MN-USA NNNN
technoid@prairienet.org Deven D. Atkinson YYYY
tek@ficus.CS.UCLA.EDU Ted Kim (Random Dude) YYYY
tgioconda@ids2.idsonline.com Tom Gioconda YYYY
Thomas.Granvold@Eng.Sun.COM Thomas Granvold YYYY
thomasm@mechti.wupper.de Thomas Mechtersheimer YYYY
thornley@cs.umn.edu David H. Thornley YYYY
tim.fierro@racer.com Tim Fierro YYYY
Tim.Otholt@amd.com Tim Otholt YYYY
tlawson@email.develop.american.edu Todd C. Lawson NNNY
tmccambl@ccs.carleton.ca Thomas McCambley YYYY
tmf31@uow.edu.au Michael F. Tomkins. YYYY
tobye@MIT.EDU Toby Elliott YYYY
Tommy_Johansson@augs.se Tommy Johansson YYYY
travis@duke.usask.ca Shane H. W. Travis YYYY
tsang@austin.ibm.com Donald Tsang YYYY
tskirvin@arh0062.urh.uiuc.edu Tim Skirvin YYYN
tsuk@poboxb.ENET.dec.com Michael Tsuk YYYY
twpierce@midway.uchicago.edu Tim Pierce NNNY
urbanek@alinc.com David Alan Urbanek YYYY
vampire@wam.umd.edu Jack Dracula YYNY
wakelyn@pinn.net N. T. Wakelyn YYYN
water@interaccess.com Paul Waterman YYYY
waxa@metronet.com Jim McDonald YYYY
wcralph@indy.net William C. Ralph YYYY
weissman@netcom.com Bob Weissman NNNN
wells@eng.net.com Don Wells - NPG Sr. SysAdmin YYYY
Wes.Gilpin@kbsi.com W.W. Gilpin YYYY
wes@WPI.EDU Wes Jones YYYY
whicken@ix.netcom.com Wendell T. Hicken YYYY
widenius@cc.helsinki.fi Risto Widenius NNNN
wilder@mik.uky.edu Jeff Wilder YYYY
wings@io.org Seyil Yoon Y---
winterp@spot.Colorado.EDU Paul Winter YYYY
wjohnson@io.com Jaeger YYYY
wklust@berlin.snafu.de Walter Klust YYYY
woodarda@acf2.NYU.EDU Andrew D. Woodard YYYY
wwoc@usa.net Glenn Godard YYYY
xeju@interaccess.com Jim Croci YYYY
xiphi@xiphi.seanet.com Aaron C. Eidinger YYYY
XstatiX@aol.com Brent Burke YYYY
ymchan@itsa.ucsf.EDU Yee-Ming Chan YYYY
ZORICK@HOOVER.STANFORD.EDU YYYY
Votes in error
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
dcjoseph@freenet.columbus.oh.us David Clark-Joseph
! Conflicting votes
dunville@ix.netcom.com Patricia Dunville
! No vote statement in message
gt7476a@prism.gatech.edu Tony Lee Manion
! No vote statement in message
jwelbl@sacam.OREN.ORTN.EDU John W Elbl
! No vote statement in message
wozzeck@nevada.edu John Nowakowski
! No vote statement in message
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