Newsgroups Main » Newsgroups Directory » Hobbies and Enthusiasts
Railroad (rec.railroad)
From urf@icl.se Tue Dec 14 14:23:14 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: urf@icl.se (Urban Fredriksson)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
Subject: RFD: rec.railroad reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 13 Dec 1993 14:58:00 -0500
Organization: None. I speak only for myself.
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Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4398 news.groups:90051 rec.railroad:33777 rec.models.railroad:7354
PROPOSAL:
Split of rec.railroad into rec.railroad.misc unmoderated
rec.railroad.america unmoderated
rec.railroad.europe unmoderated
RATIONALE:
These newsgroups would make it easier for readers to separate
articles by areas of interest.
The new groups are to remain under the rec.railroad hierarchy
to let anyone follow them, regardless of where they are. This
is necessary, as it is not the case that people are only
interested in things closer to home. Many are even interested
mainly in things that are different from where they live.
It is true that people will mostly post information about things
they know best, but the creation of aus.rail made it clear that
there are many in other parts of the world who are interested
in postings about Australian practices.
Model railroading will still be discussed in rec.models.railroad.
CHARTERS:
rec.railroad.europe
Discussions on all aspects of European railroading, except
for model railroading.
rec.railroad.america
Discussions on all aspects of American railroading, except
for model railroading.
rec.railroad.misc
Discussions on all aspects of railroading outside Europe
and America, or where the geographical area is indeterminate.
Model railroading is excepted.
DISCUSSION:
To be held in news.groups, to which all followups should be directed.
VOTING:
Votes will be collected by a neutral party.
--
Urban Fredriksson urf@icl.se
From rdippold@qualcomm.com (RonDippold) Sat Jan 22 17:59:55 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.railroad reorganization
Supersedes: <rec.railroad-reorg-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 22 Jan 1994 17:15:30 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
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Expires: 4 Feb 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <rec.railroad-reorg-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
References: <2eihg8INN8sr@rodan.UU.NET> <rec.railroad-reorg-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold Voting Alias)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4507 news.groups:92736 rec.railroad:35800 rec.models.railroad:8197
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.railroad.americas
unmoderated group rec.railroad.europe
unmoderated group rec.railroad.misc (replaces rec.railroad)
Newsgroups lines:
rec.railroad.americas Discussions about railroading in the Americas.
rec.railroad.europe Discussions about railroading in Europe.
rec.railroad.misc General railroading discussions.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 3 February 1994.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact rdippold@qualcomm.com. For questions about the
proposed group contact Urban Fredriksson <urf@icl.se>.
CHARTERS
rec.railroad.americas
Discussions on all aspects of railroading in North and South
America, except for model railroading. Unmoderated.
rec.railroad.europe
Discussions on all aspects of railroading in Europe, except model
railroading. Unmoderated.
rec.railroad.misc
Discussions on all aspects of railroading outside Europe and the
Americas, or where the geographical area is indeterminate, except
model railroading. Unmoderated.
This group would replace rec.railroad, which would be removed after
three months time in order to allow time for discussion to move.
HOW TO VOTE
Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything
below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these
lines and do not change the group names.
For each group, place a YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote
for or against it. If you don't want to vote on a particular group,
just leave the space blank. Don't worry about spacing of the columns
or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.
Then mail the ballot to: voting@qualcomm.com
Just Replying to this message should work, but check the address.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.railroad split Ballot <RROAD-0002> (Don't delete this marker)
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] rec.railroad.americas
[ ] rec.railroad.europe
[ ] rec.railroad.misc (replacing rec.railroad)
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person and per account will be counted. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
rec.railroad split Bounce Ack List - no need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bruceb@devnull.mpd.tandem.com
wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
From rdippold@qualcomm.com (RonDippold) Tue Feb 8 11:43:36 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
Subject: RESULT: rec.railroad reorganization fails
Supersedes: <rec.railroad-reorg-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 7 Feb 1994 15:49:52 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 285
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Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <rec.railroad-reorg-RESULT@uunet.uu.net>
References: <2eihg8INN8sr@rodan.UU.NET> <rec.railroad-reorg-CFV1@uunet.uu.net> <rec.railroad-reorg-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4593 news.groups:94662 rec.railroad:36719 rec.models.railroad:8609
RESULTS
rec.railroad split results - 225 valid votes
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
92 127 : No No : No : rec.railroad.americas
92 127 : No No : No : rec.railroad.europe
92 126 : No No : No : rec.railroad.misc
4 invalid votes
Therefore, six months must pass before these groups can be voted on again.
Newsgroups lines:
rec.railroad.americas Discussions about railroading in the Americas.
rec.railroad.europe Discussions about railroading in Europe.
rec.railroad.misc General railroading discussions.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact rdippold@qualcomm.com. For questions about the
proposed group contact Urban Fredriksson <urf@icl.se>.
CHARTERS
rec.railroad.americas
Discussions on all aspects of railroading in North and South
America, except for model railroading. Unmoderated.
rec.railroad.europe
Discussions on all aspects of railroading in Europe, except model
railroading. Unmoderated.
rec.railroad.misc
Discussions on all aspects of railroading outside Europe and the
Americas, or where the geographical area is indeterminate, except
model railroading. Unmoderated.
This group would replace rec.railroad, which would be removed after
three months time in order to allow time for discussion to move.
rec.railroad split Final Vote Ack
rec.railroad.misc -----+
rec.railroad.europe ----+|
rec.railroad.americas ---+||
|||
00rphensley@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu YYY
6034030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM NNN
A.Smith@kingston.ac.uk Andrew Smith - Computing Services {PR} YYY
A.Waugh@mel.dit.csiro.au NNN
aa735@freenet.carleton.ca Duncan MacGregor NNN
aaronrp@netcom.com Aaron Priven NNN
ad460@freenet.carleton.ca David Stremes YYY
AFECU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Aron Eisenpress NNN
ag861@freenet.carleton.ca John Kane NNN
ahlstrom@fy.chalmers.se Peter Ahlstrom YYY
al@prism.nmt.edu Al Stavely NNN
allen@petadmin.wustl.edu Allen Rueter NNN
am723@freenet.carleton.ca Brian Greg Bukowski YYY
Andrew.R.Hook@bristol.ac.uk A R Hook YYY
andys@world.std.com Andrew R Shulman YNY
anich@festival.edinburgh.ac.uk YYY
ardie@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Ardie Mack NNN
ARES56@email.mot.com Bill Hoffman NNN
ASPRUIL1@UA1VM.UA.EDU Allen L. Spruill YYY
aultj@rpi.edu Jim Ault YYY
bhuck@sas.upenn.edu Brian Huck YYY
boattran@well.sf.ca.us Michael D. Setty YYY
bob@1776.COM Bob Coe NNN
bol@info.win.tue.nl Roland Bol YYY
brennan@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Joseph Brennan NNN
bro@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de Karl Brodowsky YYY
brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au David Bromage NNN
bruceb@devnull.mpd.tandem.com Bruce Burden NNN
brucej@picard.verdix.com Bruce Jones YYY
bs766@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Edward A. Kamposek NNN
btest@indirect.com Brett Testerman YYY
bunce@L14H13.jsc.nasa.gov Thomas J Bunce YYY
campbjw@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU NNN
cannon@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu Bob Cannon NNN
CCHB@MUSICT.MCGILL.CA CCHB000 NNN
christen@spk.hp.com Tim Christensen YYY
claiborn@express.ctron.com Christian L Claiborn NNN
clive@sco.COM Clive D.W. Feather NNN
coburn@gec-mi-at.co.uk Martin Coburn YYY
cp1!mswinsor!lbill@uunet.UU.NET Bill Larduskey NNN
curtech!rhl@news.unh.edu Dick Lord NNN
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA Tom Box NNN
D.Jenkins@axion.bt.co.uk YYY
d91-mpo@nada.kth.se NNN
dalby@find2.denet.dk Steen Thomassen YYY
danm@hebron.connected.com Dan Morisseau YYY
darohn@giganext.lerc.nasa.gov Douglas A Rohn NNN
dave@datazone.com Dave Searle YYY
daven@hppcih50.dtc.hp.com Dave Nelson YYY
dawdy@tellabs.com NNN
delbert.big@hal9k.com Delbert Big NNN
dennis@westford.ccur.com NNN
Derek@sparecom.mn.org Derek Oldfather YYY
desherry@aloft.att.com NNN
dickson@stolaf.edu Jim Dickson NNN
djmurphy@eng.umd.edu David Murphy YYY
dmarsh@cs.strath.ac.uk YYY
donna@andromeda.rutgers.edu Donna Whitlinger NNN
downing@ibeam.intel.com Russell Downing NNN
dpitts@nyx.cs.du.edu David Pitts NNN
drayer@minerva.cis.yale.edu Rebecca Drayer YYY
dura@grover.ims.bellcore.com John J. Dura YYY
eer@bernie.sal.wisc.edu Evan Richards YYY
eevrard@bdst01.vub.ac.be Erik Evrard YYY
ehr@uncecs.edu Ernest H. Robl NNN
eja@dale.cts.com Edward Anderson x9105 Y--
elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us Edward J. Branley YYY
er@zv.fhg.de Hr. Dr. Erben-Russ - A5 YYY
FBCB@iunsys.iun.indiana.edu NNN
ferrovia@mercurio.iet.unipi.it Massimo Macucci NNN
Frank.Kuiper@cwi.nl YYY
fsspr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu Sean P. Ryan NNN
fwhyde@mmm.com YYY
GCOSCPD@state.sa.gov.au NNN
ggg@ichips.intel.com Greg Gadeholt NNN
ggw@acpub.duke.edu G. "Wolfe" Woodbury YYY
gjs@wdl.loral.com Gregory Scott NNN
gko@entropie.frmug.fr.net Georges KO Y--
gmunz@lupo.isar.muc.de Gerald Munz YYY
gordon@ll.mit.edu Gordon Matheson NNN
graham@barnowl.demon.co.uk Graham Murray -Y-
greaves@Proof.Stanford.EDU Mark Greaves NNN
GRW104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU NNN
guy@hpdmmbk.boi.hp.com Guy Burnham NNN
hanmer@ihlpm.att.com YYY
heller%livy@cs.umass.edu NNN
hilmantl@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com Mark A. Hilmantel NNN
hobbsrf@aston.ac.uk R.F.HOBBS NNY
holder@central.cis.upenn.edu Gaylord Holder NNN
ian@unipalm.co.uk Ian Phillipps YYY
ioiab09@disc.dla.mil william spollen YYY
J.M.Double@bradford.ac.uk Jeremy Double NNN
jacobsen@csc.mc.edu Eric Jacobsen NYN
jaley@pcocd2.intel.com Jeff Aley - MD57 DFT/DFM NNN
jamesm@dialogic.com Mark James NNN
jat4@cornell.edu Jim Tantillo NNN
jaw@mtqua.att.com NNN
jesse@u.washington.edu Jesse J. Steinfort YYY
jh@moon.nbn.com John Harkin NNN
jhawk@panix.com John Hawkinson NNN
jkfurr@eecs.umich.edu Joel Furr YN-
jlh1@rsvl.unisys.com Jeff Hernes NNN
jlh@netcom.com Jeff Holcomb YYY
jmclachl@lynx.dac.neu.edu John McLachlan NNN
jmora@netcom.com b.j. mora Y-Y
Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com Joe.Russ NNN
joeshaw@info1.cc.vt.edu Joseph Shaw NYN
Johan.van.den.Akker@cwi.nl YYY
johannes.beekhuizen@beard.nest.nl Johannes Beekhuizen YYY
johannes@titan.os.open.de Johannes Stille YNN
JohnBalogh@psu.edu John D. Balogh, +1 814 863 1252 NNN
johnk@teleng.eng.telxon.com John E. Kabat Jr. NNN
johnston@aurxc5.aur.alcatel.com Joe Johnston NNN
joz@cix.compulink.co.uk Jerry Ozaniec YYY
jpgs@acm.org NNN
jrm@globalvillag.com John R. MacWilliamson NNN
jtbell@cs1.presby.edu Jon Bell NNN
judd@eso.mc.xerox.com Mark Judd 73734 YYY
K.D.Balderson@lut.ac.uk Keith Balderson -Y-
kasten@ftp.com Frank Kastenholz NNN
knauer@ibeam.intel.com Rob Knauerhase NNN
kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu John Kolassa NNN
kwk@aurora.jhuapl.edu Ken Koontz NNN
L15D@ZFN.uni-bremen.de Martin Schroeder YYY
ler@hpfcler.fc.hp.com Larry Rupp NNN
LESHT%ANLER.BITNET@ANLVM.CTD.ANL.GOV NNN
leveret@warren.demon.co.uk Nick Leverton NNN
lglitch@leland.Stanford.EDU Lance Gleich YYN
lonadar@judy.indstate.edu Lonadar the Wanderer YYY
Loyd=Enochs%ISSPG%DRC@S1.DRC.COM NNN
manfred@frog.apana.org.au Manfred Hanley YYY
marco@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl Marco van Uden YYY
mark@chalford.demon.co.uk Mark Cockburn YYY
marr-leon@CS.YALE.EDU Leon Marr NNN
matheys@vsoc07.cern.ch Jean-Pol Matheys [CERN - ECP Division] NNN
matthew@sleeper.apana.org.au Matthew Geier YYY
mbn@greyskul.intel.com Mike Northam YYY
mckenney@cims.nyu.edu Alan M. McKenney NNN
mcmordie@tinac.com YYY
mikaeld@fenris.dhhalden.no Mikael Dalsgard YYY
mjn121@herald.usask.ca Michael John Nanson YYY
MMM@icf.hrb.com MAX M. MAGLIARO NNN
mmt@RedBrick.COM Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS --Y
msb@sq.com NNN
NCARTER@worldbank.org Nicholas G. Carter OBPPS 32118 NNN
ncs3@cus.cam.ac.uk Nigel Strudwick YYY
newell@megatek.com Lou Newell NNN
nolan@twg.com Nolan Hinshaw NNN
ochs@cs.wmich.edu Fred Ochs NNN
orc@pell.com Orc YYY
pdennis@vnet.IBM.COM Phil Dennis NNN
pdh@ecs.southampton.ac.uk Peter Harris NNN
percus@pnheap.in2p3.fr Allon Percus NNN
pgifford@alleg.EDU Pete Gifford NNN
pharris@roseworthy.adelaide.edu.au Paul Harris --Y
phons@ei.ele.tue.nl Phons Bloemen YYY
pi@ruth.ece.jhu.edu Pablo A. Iglesias YYY
plattl@agcs.com Larry Platt NNN
plaws@comp.uark.edu Peter Laws NNN
polze@inf.fu-berlin.de Andreas Polze NNY
propach@cats.ucsc.edu YYY
ptapola@swsnet.ntc.nokia.com Pertti Tapola YYY
pvmason@alumni.cco.caltech.edu Peter V. Mason NNN
quinn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Michael J. Quinn YYY
rad@railnet.nshore.org Rick DeMattia NNN
rcoons@sd.inri.com Richard Coons YYY
revu@midway.uchicago.edu Sendhil Revuluri NNN
Richard.D.Nimtz.1@nd.edu Rick Nimtz NNN
Rick.Miller@mixcom.mixcom.com C. Richard Miller NNN
rick@bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller NNN
RI_HAWR@PAVO.CONCORDIA.CA NNN
robertkd@sci.kun.nl Robert Klein-Douwel YYY
robs@kauri.vuw.ac.nz RH Schone YYY
roe@crosfield.co.uk Malcolm Roe NNN
Roger.Horner@software.mitel.com Roger Horner YYY
rprince@esu.edu Richard Prince YYY
rtw@mtuxj.att.com NNY
SAAST8@vms.cis.pitt.edu YYY
sam@terapin.com Sam Lewit NNN
sbd@itd.dsto.gov.au Scott Davis Y-Y
sbill@informix.com Bill Stackhouse YYY
SCHUMANN@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU Paul L. Schumann NNN
scotty@bifrost.csuohio.edu scott a hewis YYY
smarry@turing.toronto.edu Marc Moorcroft NNN
smb@research.att.com Steven M. Bellovin NNN
sra@bistromath.mitre.org Stan R. Ames NNN
srlnser@lhn.gns.cri.nz Geoff Bethell NNN
stainles@ghostwheel.bga.com Dwight Brown NNN
steve.jones@canrem.com Steve Jones NNN
stevel@ptltd.com Steve Ludlum YYY
Steve_Ketcham@vos.stratus.com Steve Ketcham NNN
stevray@stsci.edu Don Stevens-Rayburn NNN
stonecp@po.NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu Christopher P Stone NYY
straw@zk3.dec.com Cliff Straw USG NNN
strike@steam.rome.ny.us Tim "Strikemaster" Bowser NNN
tarumph@Cybernetics.COM Tim Rumph YYY
TCAE6@ISUVAX.IASTATE.EDU DUSTY YYY
teffta@cs690-3.erie.ge.com Andrew R. Tefft YYY
terjek@ifi.uio.no Terje Knudsen -Y-
Terry_Madsen@mindlink.bc.ca Terry Madsen YYY
TERUYA@CMS1.llnl.gov NNN
thor@ymir.atd.ucar.EDU Richard Neitzel NNN
Timo.Rinne@hut.fi Timo Rinne YYY
tkoppel@cassandra.cair.du.edu Ted Koppel NNN
tlsearl0@corp890.wcc.com Travis L Searls YYN
tmeadow@bearriver.com Anthony Meadow YYY
tom@drutx.att.com NNN
trainman@merle.acns.nwu.edu YYY
trk@palm.cray.com Tim Kirby YYY
UA48@IBM3090.RZ.UNI-KARLSRUHE.DE Sven Manias YYY
UN107012@WVNVAXA.WVNET.EDU NNN
urf@ki.icl.se Urban Fredriksson YYY
vancleef@wixer.bga.com Hank van Cleef NNN
virgilr@SDSC.EDU Virgil Rittenhouse NNN
W.J.Dons@kub.nl DONS W.J. YYY
wbrown@csg.lbl.gov Bill Brown NNN
wes@msc.edu NNN
wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org Wolfgang Zenker NNN
wolfgang@sunspot.nosc.mil Lewis E. Wolfgang NNN
wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com Bill Sutton NNN
x1jonass@exnet.iastate.edu YYY
X92OCHS1@wmich.edu Jeff Ochs NNN
y0000029@ws.rz.tu-bs.de Bormann -Y-
YHSHOWIE@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu NNN
zateslo@geomag.gly.fsu.edu Ted Zateslo NNN
Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aturner@acs.bu.edu Adrian Turner
! No ballot
news@NEWTECH.csg.mot.com none
! Invalid address
root@steam.rome.NY.US Conductor
! Invalid address
ybeaudoi@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca Dr. Yves Beaudoin
! No ballot
From elmer@wpi.edu Thu Jan 26 18:08:57 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: elmer@wpi.edu (Andrew Toppan)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport,aus.rail,fr.misc.transport.rail
Subject: RFD: rec.railorad reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 26 Jan 1995 17:57:48 -0500
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 245
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <3g99dc$oq9@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:6243 news.groups:131268 rec.railroad:63962 rec.models.railroad:20465 misc.transport.urban-transit:12105 uk.transport:11387 aus.rail:2717 fr.misc.transport.rail:222
Request For Discussion
______________________
Proposal: reorganize rec.railroad as follows:
--------
Creation of:
-------------
misc.transport.rail.americas Rail transport in North and South America
misc.transport.rail.australasia Rail transport in the Australasia region
misc.transport.rail.europe Rail transport in all of Europe
misc.transport.rail.misc Miscellaneous rail issues and discussions
Elimination of:
---------------
rec.railroad
Status: all unmoderated
Distribution: all world-wide
Proponents: Andrew Toppan <elmer@wpi.edu>
Colin A. Leech <ag414@FreeNet.Carleton.CA>
(Cross)posted to: rec.railroad
aus.rail
uk.transport
rec.models.railroad
misc.transport.urban-transit
news.groups
news.announce.newgroups
fr.misc.transport.rail
The Railroad List <railroadCUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Followup-to: news.groups
All discussion will take place on news.groups.
This is not a call for votes. Do not vote now. A call for votes will be
posted by the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers about 21 days after this RfD is
posted.
General Note: I realize that this is a rather long RfD, but the issues
are quite complex. I attempt to answer many FAQs from the previous
debates in this RfD, so please read the whole thing carefully before
posting or mailing a question or concern.
Rational
--------
Issue: Why Split rec.railroad at all?
-------------------------------------
-Traffic is routinely well over 100 messages daily, often over 150.
-Many people have difficulty coping with this load, especially those
who must pay money to download the whole newsgroup. Important or
intersting posts can easily get lost in the stack of postings.
-The majority of postings are US-related. Europeans and others feel swamped
and intimidated about posting about their own systems.
-Major confusion about names and initials. eg. NS = both a USA railroad
and a Dutch railroad.
-Europeans and Britons are anxious to create their own groups. If this
proposed split fails, it is virtually guaranteed that groups like
uk.transport.rail and eunet.rail will be created, leaving rec.railroad
even more isolated to strictly American topics. Traffic from the UK has
temporarily moved to uk.transport to avoid the problems of rec.railroad.
-The existing group aus.rail isn't available to most of the world, although
many people outside Australia are interested in Australian railroads.
misc.transport.rail.australasia will solve this problem.
Issue: Why not Regional Groups?
-------------------------------
-eg. aus.rail (existing), uk.transport.rail (proposed), eunet.rail (proposed)
-These hierarchies are not well propagated beyond their geographic areas.
Many people are interested in railroads outside their own area
Proof: numerous postings by Europeans about American railroads
and vice versa.
-Splitting rec.railroad but keeping the new groups within the "Big 7"
Usenet hierarchies (in practical terms, either as rec.* or misc.*) ensures
that everybody worldwide will have the option to follow discussions of
interest to them. Creating regional groups outside rec.* or misc.* would
deprive a large number of people of this opportunity.
-Most British traffic has recently vanished to uk.transport, to the
detriment of those who can not get that group. Similarly, Dutch traffic
have moved to a mailing list.
-A major misconception during the previous discussion of this issue has been
that the new misc.transport.rail.* groups would only be available in certain
areas. This is NOT the case. ALL the new groups will be WORLDWIDE.
Issue: What kind of split?
--------------------------
- Three suggestions were put forward: geography, policy vs. operations
(several variations), or passenger versus freight.
- The consensus is that a split into operations/policy would not be useful.
The lines between the two are very fuzzy, and the split would not address
the concerns over American domination.
- There are not enough postings about passenger traffic to justify a
separate newsgroup for it.
- A geographic split is logical in terms of dividing up the postings into
manageable pieces. Since each group would be available WORLDWIDE,
anyone could read about any geographic area they wanted to.
The addition of a .misc group provides a place for discussions that
apply to areas not covered by the other groups (eg Africa and Asia,
which have very few posts today) and discussions that encompass more
than one region--worldwide issues (eg merits of DC vs. AC electrification).
Issue: Last vote failed. Why try again?
---------------------------------------
The last vote to split rec.railroad failed largely due to concerns by American
readers about losing other traffic. The time has come that enough British
and European readers will create their own localized groups one way or the
other. Splitting rec.railroad within Usenet (i.e. rec.* or misc.*) ensures
that everybody still has access to all articles, if desired. Creating regional
groups like uk.rail and eunet.rail will prevent many people from accessing
other discussions, and will be counterproductive to the rail community
as a whole.
Issue: Names of New Newsgroups
------------------------------
Hierarchy:
-----------
-Why not stay in rec.railroad?
Railroad is not an international word. Australia and Europe, among others,
use railway, while the United States uses railroad. There was a strong
outcry against the use of "railroad" from many parts of the world.
For example, a group named "rec.railroad.australia" would be unacceptable
from an Australian standpoint. "railway" would be acceptable to
everyone, as would "rail", although "rail" seems to be preferred. So
.rail MUST be used in place of .railroad if a truly international hierarchy
is to exist. Using "railroad" will cause the vote to fail, as non USA
voters will vote "no".
-Why misc.transport.rail.* instead of rec.rail ??
-There are a number of proposed or existing groups in the
misc.transport.hierarchy. These include misc.transport.urban-transit
and misc.transport.air-industry. It is desirable (both from a
sysadmin's and a user's standpoint) to put all the transport related
newsgroups in one hierarchy:
-easier to find the groups if they are all in one place
-more effective use of overall Usenet namespace
-the misc.transport hierarchy will be growing to include,
eventually, all forms of transportation.
-New second level group names (the "rail" in rec.rail) should be broad
classifications (i.e. rec.arts, rec.sports, rec.crafts). rec.rail is
a rather narrow classification for a second level group.
-creating a new second level group causes problems with newsfeeds--the
new hierarchy must be manually added. Adding misc.transport.rail.*
would be more or less 'automatic'--an important consideration when
thousands of sites (and thousands of sysadmins) are involved.
The fact that rec.railroad already exists does not matter, rec.rail
would still be a new hierarchy, not a renamed one.
-From the point of view of overall Usenet namespace it is desirable to
add group names at the third and fourth levels rather than the second
level.
-misc.transport.rail.* was the second choice in the informal poll,
behind rec.railroad. rec.rail was third.
-misc.transport.rail is not without precedent, the French language
equivalent of rec.railroad is fr.misc.transport.rail.
-misc. should not be thought of as "insignificant subjects" or
"trivial subjects" but as "subjects that don't fit elsewhere"
Why the 4 proposed groups?
--------------------------
m.t.r.americas, m.t.r.europe, m.t.r.australasia, m.t.r.misc
m.t.r.americas
--------------
The only country that could support a separate international Usenet
newsgroup by itself at the moment is the USA. However, American (USA)
issues, practices and interests are usually tied to Canadian and Mexican
ones, so a North American group is appropriate. What little traffic
there currently is regarding Central and South America deals mostly with
North American railroad equipment etc. in relation to Central/South America.
For example: locomotives built in the USA and exported to Brazil,
American locomotives in Cuba. This small amount of traffic could
easily and logically be included in the North American group, making
it a comprehensive .americas group. South and Central America clearly
could not support a separate newsgroup. The alternative would be to put
South America in .misc, which is no better in terms of traffic volume.
m.t.r.europe
------------
m.t.r.europe will be a group for discussion of rail transit in all of
Europe. Note that the opening of the Channel Tunnel has forever linked
Britain into the integrated European train network. With the creation of the
European economic community, the countries of Europe are more closely
linked than ever. Also, country-specific newsgroups (i.e m.t.r.uk) are
frowned upon by senior Usenet newsadmins.
m.t.r.australasia
-----------------
The group m.t.r.australasia would largely replace aus.rail. Technically there
cannot be a Usenet vote on aus.* groups (the Usenet voting procedure is
only valid for the "Big 7" hierarchies of Usenet, and local/regional
newsgroups are not part of this). However, aus.rail would be largely
redundant if misc.transport.rail.* is created, with the additional problem
that it is not widely propagated outside Australia. The elimination of
aus.rail cannot be a part of a Usenet vote, but we suggest that Australian
news administrators may want to consider this issue if
misc.transport.rail.australasia is created.
The discussions in aus.rail have been isolated from the mainstream
Usenet, to the detriment of those who are interested but unable to receive
it. This proposal would bring Australian rail discussions into the
mainstream of Usenet. By using .australasia instead of .australia,
discussions from that entire area (i.e. New Zealand) can be included,
keeping them out of .misc.
m.t.r.misc
----------
-For discussions that don't fit in the other groups. Examples include
traffic about Asia and Africa.
-For discussions that span several regions/groups. Examples would
be worldwide technical and economic issues and general railway/railroad
questions.
-A starting point for future growth of the misc.transport.rail hierarchy.
For example, the jumping off point for a m.t.r.asia if traffic should
ever warrant.
-It is pretty much a requirement to have a .misc group in any hierarchy
for general discussions or things that don't fit with the other
classifications.
Worldwide Distribution
-----------------------
A frequent argument against splitting the group has been "but then I
can't read about railways in X country." This is just plain wrong.
All the new groups will be available WORLDWIDE, so ANYONE can read
about ANY part of the world. If this reorganization fails regional
groups will surely be formed (uk.transport.rail, eunet.rail) which
will NOT be available worldwide. This clearly would be to the
detriment of the rec.railroad community. The reorganization will also
bring Australian discussions to the rest of the world and return UK
rail discussions to an international forum from the relative obscurity
of uk.transport.
Future Growth
-------------
Note that if any future newsgroup splits are required, they can be done
as reorganizations of groups as well as splits. For example, a future split
of m.t.r.americas could be to m.t.r.n-am and m.t.r.s-am, or to m.t.r.*
where * = individual country names (Canada, USA, etc.), or other
combinations. The current proposed setup does not preclude any future
options. If the traffic on m.t.r.europe rises to the point that a
separate UK newsgroup is warranted, m.t.r.uk can be created without
eliminating m.t.r.europe or creating another level like m.t.r.europe.uk.
From elmer@wpi.edu Sun Feb 12 22:49:28 1995
Status: RO
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: elmer@wpi.edu (Andrew Toppan)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad,aus.rail,uk.transport,misc.transport.urban-transit,fr.misc.transport.rail
Subject: Re: 2nd RfD: rec.railroad reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:23:38 -0500
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 159
Sender: tale@rodan.UU.NET
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <3hmjbq$pbs@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: is1.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6291 news.groups:134130 rec.railroad:66307 rec.models.railroad:21795 misc.transport.urban-transit:13221
Second Request For Discussion
_____________________________
Proposal: reorganize rec.railroad as follows:
Creation of the following unmoderated, worldwide groups:
misc.transport.rail.americas Railroads & railways North & South America.
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz Railways in Australia and New Zealand.
misc.transport.rail.europe Railroads & railways in all of Europe.
misc.transport.rail.misc Miscellaneous rail issues and discussions.
(replaces rec.railroad)
Proponents: Andrew Toppan <elmer@wpi.edu>
Colin A. Leech <ag414@FreeNet.Carleton.CA>
(Cross)posted to: rec.railroad, aus.rail, uk.transport, rec.models.railroad,
misc.transport.urban-transit, news.groups, news.announce.newgroups,
fr.misc.transport.rail
An announcement of this RfD will be mailed to the The Railroad List
<railroadCUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
All discussion of this RfD should take place on news.groups.
[Changes from the first RfD: m.t.r.australasia changed to .australia-nz
to avoid confusion about the areas it covers, the proposed charters for
all the groups have been added. The charters address several concerns
raised in the previous discussions, mainly railfan participation]
**This is not a call for votes. A CfV will be posted shortly after the
20th of this month.**
Rationale
---------
Why Split rec.railroad at all?
------------------------------
This has been discussed in great detail recently, but the basic reasons
are as follows:
-Traffic on rec.railroad is far too high.
-Various groups are considering splitting off into regional groups (i.e.
uk.transport.rail, eunet.rail) which will not be available worldwide.
-The majority of postings are US-related. Europeans and others feel swamped
and intimidated about posting about their own systems, so they are
moving to regional groups.
-Major confusion about names and initials. eg. NS = both a USA railroad
and a Dutch railroad.
Names of New Newsgroups
-----------------------
Hierarchy:
-----------
-Why not stay in rec.railroad?
Railroad is not an international word. Australia and Europe, among others,
use railway, while the United States uses railroad. There was a strong
outcry against the use of "railroad" from many parts of the world.
For example, a group named "rec.railroad.australia" would be unacceptable
from an Australian standpoint. "railway" would probably be acceptable to
everyone, as would "rail", although "rail" seems to be preferred. So
.rail MUST be used in place of .railroad if a truly international hierarchy
is to exist. Using "railroad" will cause the vote to fail, as non USA
voters will vote "no". It makes makes no sense to create a group that
will not be used by those it is intended for.
-Why misc.transport.rail.* instead of rec.rail ??
-There are a number of proposed or existing groups in the
misc.transport.hierarchy. These include misc.transport.urban-transit,
a group with discussions that are quite similar in nature to those
in rec.railroad. It is desirable (both from a sysadmin's and a user's
standpoint) to put all the transport related newsgroups in one hierarchy:
-easier to find the groups if they are all in one place
-more effective use of overall Usenet namespace
-the misc.transport hierarchy will be growing to include,
eventually, all forms of transportation.
-New second level group names (the "rail" in rec.rail) should be broad
classifications (i.e. rec.arts, rec.sports, rec.crafts). rec.rail is
a very narrow classification for a second level group. New second
level rec groups may have propagation problems--rec.ponds is a new
second level rec. group, it is one of the worst propagated rec.
groups out there.
-creating a new second level group causes problems with newsfeeds--the
new hierarchy must be manually added. Adding misc.transport.rail.*
would be more or less 'automatic'--an important consideration when
thousands of sites (and thousands of sysadmins) are involved.
The fact that rec.railroad already exists does not matter, rec.rail
would still be a new hierarchy, not a renamed one.
-From the point of view of overall Usenet namespace it is desirable to
add group names at the third and fourth levels rather than the second
level.
-misc. should not be thought of as "insignificant subjects" or
"trivial subjects" but as "subjects that don't fit elsewhere" or
"subjects that overlap several classifications," as rec.railroad does.
-misc is a more broad classification than rec., it can include railfan
(recreational) and professional content, as well as posts from people
who ride/use trains but are not interested in the recreational aspects of
railroads/ways. rec.rail would, by its name, discourage non RECreational
discussions. Everyone should be welcome--railfans, passengers and
workers in the railroad/way industry.
-misc.transport.rail.* would probably be better propagated than
rec.rail. misc.transport.rail is already better propagated than
rec.railroad (#182 in the top 511 rec/misc groups vs. #345) and it is
much newer, so it isn't even fully propagated. Add to this the problems
of new second level propagation in misc. (noted above, rec.ponds is a
good example). There are some sites that don't carry misc, but there
are just as many (or more) that don't carry the very large rec. hierarchy.
Proposed Charters:
------------------
misc.transport.rail.*:
----------------------
The misc.transport.rail.* newsgroups are for discussion of all aspects of
railways, railroads and rail transportation in general.
Topics that will be discussed include, but are in no way limited to,
train watching, railfanning, operations, history, preservation, technology,
locomotives, freight and passenger cars, political, economic and social
issues regarding railroads/ways, the future of rail transport and the
infrastructure of rail transport. This list is not meant to be
all-inclusive, it is simply intended to give an idea of the topics
appropriate to the newsgroup(s).
These groups are meant to include all discussions and issues regarding
railways/roads. Therefore, everyone, including railfans of all types,
those in the railroad/way industry, rail passengers and anyone
interested in trains is welcome (and encouraged) to participate in the
discussions.
Commercial posts and advertising are not appropriate for these groups,
but individuals may post for sale messages for railroad related books,
magazines, etc. and legally obtained collectors items and railroadiana.
Binary postings of any sort are not appropriate.
Announcements of railfan trips, excursions, exhibitions and other such
events are encouraged.
misc.transport.rail.americas:
-----------------------------
For discussions relating to North, South and Central America.
misc.transport.rail.europe:
---------------------------
For discussions relating to Europe.
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz:
---------------------------------
For discussions relating to Australia and New Zealand.
misc.transport.rail.misc:
-------------------------
For discussions relating to geographic areas not included in the other
misc.transport.rail.* groups. Also for discussions that relate to two or
more of the misc.transport.rail.* groups, several geographic areas, or the
entire world. This will include discussions of technical issues that are
not specific to any one continent.
From warren@syra.net Sat Mar 25 15:07:57 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: warren@syra.net (Warren Lavallee)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.railroad,misc.transport.urban-transit,rec.models.railroad,uk.transport,aus.rail,fr.misc.transport.rail
Subject: CFV: rec.railroad reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 25 Mar 1995 14:57:36 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 130
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 16 Apr 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <rec.railroad-reorg2-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
References: <3g99dc$oq9@rodan.UU.NET> <3hmjbq$pbs@rodan.UU.NET>
Reply-To: voting@syra.NET
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6503 news.groups:141201 rec.railroad:71362 misc.transport.urban-transit:16422 rec.models.railroad:25101
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group misc.transport.rail.americas
unmoderated group misc.transport.rail.europe
unmoderated group misc.transport.rail.australia-nz
unmoderated group misc.transport.rail.misc (replaces rec.railroad)
Newsgroups line:
misc.transport.rail.americas Railroads & railways in North & South America.
misc.transport.rail.europe Railroads & railways in all of Europe.
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz Railways in Australia & New Zealand.
misc.transport.rail.misc Miscellaneous rail issues & discusions.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 15 April 1995.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact Warren Lavallee <warren@Syra.NET>. For
questions about the proposed group contact Andrew Toppan <elmer@wpi.edu>.
This CFV will be cross posted to:
rec.railroad
misc.transport.urban-transit
rec.models.railroad
uk.transport
aus.rail
fr.misc.transport.rail
and sent to the EMail list <railroadV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
CHARTER
misc.transport.rail.*:
---------------------
The misc.transport.rail.* newsgroups are for discussion of all aspects
of railways, railroads and rail transportation in general.
Topics that will be discussed include, but are in no way limited
to, train watching, railfanning, operations, history, preservation,
technology, locomotives, freight and passenger cars, political, economic
and social issues regarding rail transport, the future of rail transport
and the infrastructure of rail transport. This list is not meant to
be all-inclusive, it is simply intended to give an idea of the topics
appropriate to the newsgroup(s).
These groups are meant to include all discussions and issues regarding
rail transport. Therefore, everyone, including railfans of all types,
those in the rail transport industry, rail passengers and anyone
interested in trains is welcome (and encouraged) to participate in the
discussions.
Commercial posts and advertising are not appropriate for these groups,
but individuals may post for sale messages for railroad related books,
magazines, etc. and legally obtained collectors items and railroadiana.
Binary postings of any sort are not appropriate.
Announcements of railfan trips, excursions, exhibitions and other such
events are encouraged.
misc.transport.rail.americas:
----------------------------
For discussions relating to North, South and Central America.
misc.transport.rail.europe:
--------------------------
For discussions relating to Europe.
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz:
--------------------------------
For discussions relating to Australia and New Zealand.
misc.transport.rail.misc:
-------------------------
For discussions relating to geographic areas not included in the other
misc.transport.rail.* groups. Also for discussions that relate to two or
more of the misc.transport.rail.* groups, several geographic areas, or
the entire world. This will include discussions of technical issues that
are not specific to any one continent.
HOW TO VOTE
Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything
below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these
lines and do not change the group name. Basically, remove everything
except the ballot - we have to save them all on disk.
Give your name on the line that asks for it. Place a YES or NO in the
brackets next to the group name to vote for or against it. Don't
worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that
your reply inserts.
Send MAIL to: voting@Syra.NET
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.railroad reorg Ballot <MTR-0001> (Don't remove this marker)
Give your real name here:
If you do not give a real name your vote may be rejected.
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] misc.transport.rail.americas
[ ] misc.transport.rail.europe
[ ] misc.transport.rail.australia-nz
[ ] misc.transport.rail.misc (replaces rec.railroad)
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve
only to cancel any previous vote. Abstentions are noted in the final
vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely.
(This is the only difference between the two.)
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid
vote will count.
Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person,
no more than one vote per account. If you attempt multiple votes or
other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.
The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including
how each person voted. Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret
ballot.
There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote
list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed. The
requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes,
and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES.
From warren@syra.net Tue Apr 4 19:09:57 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: warren@syra.net (Warren Lavallee)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.railroad,misc.transport.urban-transit,rec.models.railroad,uk.transport,aus.rail,fr.misc.transport.rail
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.railroad reorganization
Supersedes: <rec.railroad-reorg2-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 4 Apr 1995 17:47:51 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 130
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 16 Apr 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <rec.railroad-reorg2-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
References: <3g99dc$oq9@rodan.UU.NET> <3hmjbq$pbs@rodan.UU.NET> <rec.railroad-reorg2-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@syra.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6560 news.groups:143316 rec.railroad:72619 misc.transport.urban-transit:17235 rec.models.railroad:25798
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group misc.transport.rail.americas
unmoderated group misc.transport.rail.europe
unmoderated group misc.transport.rail.australia-nz
unmoderated group misc.transport.rail.misc (replaces rec.railroad)
Newsgroups line:
misc.transport.rail.americas Railroads & railways in North & South America.
misc.transport.rail.europe Railroads & railways in all of Europe.
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz Railways in Australia & New Zealand.
misc.transport.rail.misc Miscellaneous rail issues & discusions.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 15 April 1995.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact Warren Lavallee <warren@Syra.NET>. For
questions about the proposed group contact Andrew Toppan <elmer@wpi.edu>.
This CFV will be cross posted to:
rec.railroad
misc.transport.urban-transit
rec.models.railroad
uk.transport
aus.rail
fr.misc.transport.rail
and sent to the EMail list <railroadV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
CHARTER
misc.transport.rail.*:
---------------------
The misc.transport.rail.* newsgroups are for discussion of all aspects
of railways, railroads and rail transportation in general.
Topics that will be discussed include, but are in no way limited
to, train watching, railfanning, operations, history, preservation,
technology, locomotives, freight and passenger cars, political, economic
and social issues regarding rail transport, the future of rail transport
and the infrastructure of rail transport. This list is not meant to
be all-inclusive, it is simply intended to give an idea of the topics
appropriate to the newsgroup(s).
These groups are meant to include all discussions and issues regarding
rail transport. Therefore, everyone, including railfans of all types,
those in the rail transport industry, rail passengers and anyone
interested in trains is welcome (and encouraged) to participate in the
discussions.
Commercial posts and advertising are not appropriate for these groups,
but individuals may post for sale messages for railroad related books,
magazines, etc. and legally obtained collectors items and railroadiana.
Binary postings of any sort are not appropriate.
Announcements of railfan trips, excursions, exhibitions and other such
events are encouraged.
misc.transport.rail.americas:
----------------------------
For discussions relating to North, South and Central America.
misc.transport.rail.europe:
--------------------------
For discussions relating to Europe.
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz:
--------------------------------
For discussions relating to Australia and New Zealand.
misc.transport.rail.misc:
-------------------------
For discussions relating to geographic areas not included in the other
misc.transport.rail.* groups. Also for discussions that relate to two or
more of the misc.transport.rail.* groups, several geographic areas, or
the entire world. This will include discussions of technical issues that
are not specific to any one continent.
HOW TO VOTE
Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything
below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these
lines and do not change the group name. Basically, remove everything
except the ballot - we have to save them all on disk.
Give your name on the line that asks for it. Place a YES or NO in the
brackets next to the group name to vote for or against it. Don't
worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that
your reply inserts.
Send MAIL to: voting@Syra.NET
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.railroad reorg Ballot <MTR-0002> (Don't remove this marker)
Give your real name here:
If you do not give a real name your vote may be rejected.
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] misc.transport.rail.americas
[ ] misc.transport.rail.europe
[ ] misc.transport.rail.australia-nz
[ ] misc.transport.rail.misc (replaces rec.railroad)
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve
only to cancel any previous vote. Abstentions are noted in the final
vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely.
(This is the only difference between the two.)
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid
vote will count.
Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person,
no more than one vote per account. If you attempt multiple votes or
other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.
The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including
how each person voted. Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret
ballot.
There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote
list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed. The
requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes,
and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES.
From warren@syra.net Tue Apr 18 22:41:57 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: warren@syra.net (Warren Lavallee)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.railroad,misc.transport.urban-transit,rec.models.railroad,uk.transport,aus.rail,fr.misc.transport.rail
Subject: RESULT: rec.railroad reorganization all groups pass
Supersedes: <rec.railroad-reorg2-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 18 Apr 1995 21:27:17 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 484
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <rec.railroad-reorg2-RESULTS@uunet.uu.net>
References: <3g99dc$oq9@rodan.UU.NET><3hmjbq$pbs@rodan.UU.NET><rec.railroad-reorg2-CFV1@uunet.uu.net><rec.railroad-reorg2-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6658 news.groups:145274 rec.railroad:74293 misc.transport.urban-transit:18283 rec.models.railroad:26751
RESULT
rec.railroad reorganization - 381 valid votes
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
277 91 : Yes Yes : Yes : misc.transport.rail.americas
279 89 : Yes Yes : Yes : misc.transport.rail.europe
270 91 : Yes Yes : Yes : misc.transport.rail.australia-nz
267 102 : Yes Yes : Yes : misc.transport.rail.misc (replaces rec.railroad)
3 invalid votes
misc.transport.rail.americas passed on Tue Mar 28 04:24:27 1995
misc.transport.rail.europe passed on Tue Mar 28 02:43:28 1995
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz passed on Tue Mar 28 04:24:27 1995
misc.transport.rail.misc (replaces rec.railroad) passed on Tue Mar 28 05:56:49 1995
For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES
and NO) votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO
votes.
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.
If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the passed group(s)
shortly thereafter.
Newsgroups Lines:
misc.transport.rail.americas Railroads & railways in North & South America.
misc.transport.rail.europe Railroads & railways in all of Europe.
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz Railways in Australia & New Zealand.
misc.transport.rail.misc Miscellaneous rail issues & discusions.
CHARTER
misc.transport.rail.*:
---------------------
The misc.transport.rail.* newsgroups are for discussion of all aspects
of railways, railroads and rail transportation in general.
Topics that will be discussed include, but are in no way limited
to, train watching, railfanning, operations, history, preservation,
technology, locomotives, freight and passenger cars, political, economic
and social issues regarding rail transport, the future of rail transport
and the infrastructure of rail transport. This list is not meant to
be all-inclusive, it is simply intended to give an idea of the topics
appropriate to the newsgroup(s).
These groups are meant to include all discussions and issues regarding
rail transport. Therefore, everyone, including railfans of all types,
those in the rail transport industry, rail passengers and anyone
interested in trains is welcome (and encouraged) to participate in the
discussions.
Commercial posts and advertising are not appropriate for these groups,
but individuals may post for sale messages for railroad related books,
magazines, etc. and legally obtained collectors items and railroadiana.
Binary postings of any sort are not appropriate.
Announcements of railfan trips, excursions, exhibitions and other such
events are encouraged.
misc.transport.rail.americas:
----------------------------
For discussions relating to North, South and Central America.
misc.transport.rail.europe:
--------------------------
For discussions relating to Europe.
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz:
--------------------------------
For discussions relating to Australia and New Zealand.
misc.transport.rail.misc:
-------------------------
For discussions relating to geographic areas not included in the other
misc.transport.rail.* groups. Also for discussions that relate to two or
more of the misc.transport.rail.* groups, several geographic areas, or
the entire world. This will include discussions of technical issues that
are not specific to any one continent.
rec.railroad reorg Final Vote Ack
[This collection of addresses is (C)1995 by Consultix Computer Services.
Permission is strictly NOT given to use this list or any part thereof to
make a mailing list, or for mass-mailings. Any other use is fine.]
misc.transport.rail.misc (replaces rec.railroad) ------+
misc.transport.rail.australia-nz -----+|
misc.transport.rail.europe ----+||
misc.transport.rail.americas ---+|||
||||
73053.2234@compuserve.com Erich S. Houchens YYYY
76256.767@compuserve.com Mark Hufstetler NNNN
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CrOCon@aol.com Craig O'Connell YYYY
crouchkp@flidh103.delcoelect.com K. CROUCH ----
ctillier@leland.Stanford.EDU Clem Tillier YYY-
dale.mcclain@spartabbs.com Dale McClain Y---
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dave@imago.demon.co.uk Dave Cromarty YYYY
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David.Cooper@its.utas.edu.au David Cooper YYYY
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davidw@bga.com David Winters YYYY
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desherry@aloft.att.com Douglas E. Sherry NNNN
dhartung@mcs.com Dan Hartung YYYY
dietmar@muffin.physik.uni-bremen.de Dietmar Behrens YYY-
Dik.Winter@cwi.nl Dik T. Winter YYYY
dmneal@waikato.ac.nz Donald Neal YYYY
dobbs@ast.saic.com Lynn Dobbs NNNN
donaldb@ecid.cig.mot.com Bill Donald NNNY
dorst@crl.com Steven J Dorst YYYY
doug.seymour@freddy.supernet.ab.ca If you do not give a real name NNNN
doug@prefade.demon.co.uk R D Masterton YYYY
downing@ibeam.jf.intel.com Russell Downing YYYY
dpm3@dpm3.seanet.com Dan Morisseau NNNN
dr_legge@postoffice.utas.edu.au David Legge YYYY
dsdawdy@mcs.com Daniel S. Dawdy YYYY
dsmith@orbonline.net Doug Smith YYYY
duncan@teleport.com Duncan McEwan YYYY
dwells@fits.cv.nrao.edu Don Wells YYYY
e.swenson@trl.oz.au Evelyn Swenson YYYY
eal@cs.uri.edu Ed Lamagna NYYN
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ec@silicon.fc.hp.com Edgar Circenis NNNN
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Eddie.Oliver@efs.mq.edu.au EDDIE OLIVER YYYY
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elmer@WPI.EDU Andrew Toppan YYYY
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frankrl@stud.cs.uit.no Frank Ronny Larsen YYYY
FUGGERM@TEN-NASH.TEN.K12.TN.US Michael L. Fugger
YYYY
g91g4644@warthog.ru.ac.za Jacques Gerber YYYY
garryr@netcom.com Garry Ricketson YYYY
gbala@notis.com Helen Gbala YYYY
gengler@tethys.informatik.uni-bonn.de Romain Gengler YYYY
gimlack@netcom.com Eric Rosenberg YYYY
glanzman@leland.Stanford.EDU Tom Glanzman YYYY
gmunz@lupo.m.isar.de Gerald Munz YYYY
Gone2Texas@aol.com John Spangenberg NNNN
graham@siward.demon.co.uk Graham Judd YYYY
grayd@elwha.evergreen.edu Donovan Gray YYYY
greg@roundhouse.com Gregory K. Ramsey YYYY
groo@netcom.com Kiran Wagle NNNN
grosseaj@tuns.ca Alan J Grossert YYYY
grr@shandakor.tharsis.com George Robbins YYYN
gto@triton.dsto.gov.au Greg O'Shea YYYY
gustavf@stud.unit.no Gustav Foseid YYYY
gwemmeru@world.nad.northrop.com Gary Wemmerus YYYY
hank167@dorsai.dorsai.org Hank Eisenstein Y--Y
hansm@win.tue.nl Hans Mulder YYYY
harald@manet.espci.fr Harald PUHL YYYY
harold@driscoll.chi.il.us Harold A. Driscoll YYYY
Hascha@bbb.no Hans Schaefer YYYY
heller@pliny.cs.umass.edu Robert Heller NNNN
hilmantl@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com Mark A. Hilmantel YYYY
hjelme@login.dknet.dk Erik Hjelme YYYY
hod@erica.psgvb.com Hod Greeley NNNN
homer@rt.e-technik.th-darmstadt.de Holger Metschulat YYYY
hop%bdvnms.dnet@KNMI.NL Gerard Hop NNNN
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hpp@sypro.dk Hans Peter Poulsen YYYY
hrose@rocza.kei.com Helen Trillian Rose YYYY
I.D.Trimnell@open.ac.uk Ian Trimnell YYYY
i000370@disch3.disc.dla.mil Martin J Coghlan III YYYY
ian@pipex.net Ian Phillipps YYYY
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IFVERSEN@FNALV.FNAL.GOV David J. Ifversen NNNN
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iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk Ian Jackson ---Y
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JBStanton@aol.com Jeff Stanton YYYY
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jdennis@acslink.net.au John Dennis YYYY
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jh@nbn.com John Harkin YYYY
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Jim_Mann@transarc.com Jim Mann YYYY
jmm32@po.cwru.edu Jason M Miller NNNN
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joeshaw@csgrad.cs.vt.edu Joe "Uno" Shaw YYYY
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kruse@diku.dk Jakob Kruse YYYY
kshapiro@julian.uwo.ca Kivi Shapiro YYYY
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otto@vaxb.acs.unt.edu M. Otto ----
ovr@snakemail.hut.fi Otto-Ville Ronkainen YYYY
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pokorny@inforamp.net Dusan Pokorny YYY-
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r.lee@uws.edu.au Dr Robert Stuart Lee YYYY
rad@railnet.nshore.org Rick DeMattia YYYY
radrayer@panix.com Rebecca Drayer YYYY
rah94@aber.ac.uk Richard Alan Huss YYYY
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sat@find2.denet.dk Steen Thomassen YYYY
sbd@itd.dsto.gov.au Scott Davis YYYY
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Scot_Osterweil@TERC.edu Scot Osterweil YYYY
SEEFELDTJ@UWSTOUT.EDU Jon Seefeldt YNNY
sillatos@smtpgw.liebert.com Steve Sillato NNNN
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skull@rahul.net Bill Rockefeller YYYY
slog@tyrell.net Jim Rueschhoff YYYY
smb@research.att.com Steven M. Bellovin NNNN
smeets@fys1.fgg.EUR.NL Jeroen Smeets YYNY
smiths@pobox.upenn.edu Sandy F. Smith, Jr. YYYY
SPRENGER@stpc.wi.leidenuniv.nl Jeroen Sprenger YYYY
srk@math.uio.no Stig R. Kristoffersen NNNN
stainles@bga.com Dwight Brown NNNN
standlee@lunacity.com KEVIN STANDLEE YYYY
stef@netcom.com Stef Jones NNNN
steve@shalfiow.demon.co.uk steve holden YYYY
Steve_Ketcham@vos.stratus.com Stephen G. Ketcham (Steve_Ketcham@vos.st YYYY
straw@zk3.dec.com Cliff Straw NNNN
SUPERVISOR@pmt11.et.Uni-Magdeburg.DE Martin Wollschlaeger YYYY
swfb@bokop.win-uk.net S.W.F. Borthwick NYYY
s_tbk@ira.uka.de Tobias Benjamin Koehler YYYY
tacraft@ccs.carleton.ca Christina Craft YYYN
tedmonds@acslink.net.au Trevor Edmonds YYYY
terjek@ifi.uio.no Terje Knudsen YYYY
Terry_Madsen@mindlink.bc.ca Terry Madsen YYYY
thmic@chevron.com Michiel J. Hanou thmic@chevron.com YYYY
tim.anderson@email.HUB.TEK.COM Tim Anderson NNNN
tlh@mcs.kent.edu Tom Hedington YYYY
tmeadow@bearriver.com Anthony Meadow YYYY
Tom.Heiremans@hep.iihe.ac.be Tom Heiremans YYYY
tom@1776.COM Thomas K. Coe YYYY
tonym@jumbo.hna.com.au Tony Middleton YYYY
trainman@nwu.edu Jim Ellwanger YYYY
tvanriet@macbel.be Theo van Riet YYYY
u249011@vm.uci.kun.nl Rian van der Borgt YYYY
UA48@IBM3090.RZ.UNI-KARLSRUHE.DE Sven Manias YYYY
unicorn@RT66.com Sheri Hurt YYYY
vanBesien@geo.tudelft.nl Krist van Besien YYYY
vancleef@bga.com H. van Cleef NNNN
vandys@cisco.com Andrew Valencia NNNN
veltman@netcom.com Paul Veltman <veltman@netcom.com> YYYY
VETDSMDV@UTKVT1.VET.UTK.EDU John R. Lewis YYYY
VORST2@ccm.UManitoba.CA VORST, Jes (Dutch) or Jesse (English) YYNN
W.J.Dons@kub.nl W.J. Dons YYYY
wcwatson@cuhk.hk William Watson YYYY
wesb@msc.edu Wes Barris NNNN
wilting@uni-muenster.de Klaus Wilting -Y--
wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org Wolfgang Zenker YYYY
wrs@hpuerca.atl.hp.com Bill Sutton YYYY
wth0019@decster.uta.edu Billy Harris ---N
Yves.Duflot@enst-bretagne.fr Yves Duflot YYYY
zeevaart@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Scott W. Zeevaart YYYY
zellich@STL-17SIMA.ARMY.MIL Rich Zellich NNNN
Votes in error
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edwijohn@perth.DIALix.oz.au Edwin Johnston
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Ketorm@aol.com Robert G. Mrotek
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ts94az@badger.ac.BrockU.CA TERENCE WILLIAM SCHELTEMA
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