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From rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu Thu Aug 20 10:08:53 1992
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From: rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: RFD: sci.aeronautics.airliners
Message-ID: <Bt98JD.Dq1@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: news.groups
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:42:42 GMT
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
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REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION: SCI.AERONAUTICS.AIRLINERS
PROPOSED CHARTER:
Moderated-discussion group on airliner technology, concentrating on
the design, construction, performance, human factors, operation, and
histories of transport-category aircraft.
DISCUSSION PERIOD:
0000 CST August 19, 1992 through 0000 CST September 18, 1992.
Following the discussion period, if there appears to be support,
I will issue a CALL-FOR-VOTES (CFV).
This RFD will be re-posted in two weeks.
Please wade through the following to answer the mini-survey at
the end.
WHY?
A month ago, Geoff Peck issued a comprehensive re-organization proposal for
rec.aviation, after somewhat intense consultation with quite a few people,
including myself. Simultaneously, I ran a survey on a variety of proposed
newsgroups, to try to get a "straw poll" of how strongly users might
support the various groups (and the re-organization concept, in general).
The discussion-period showed there was fairly widespread interest in an
airliners newsgroup. Even though, on average, airliner traffic comprises
about 7% of the total traffic on rec.aviation, over a quarter of the survey
respondents expressed a strong interest in the creation of an airliners
group.
Currently, airliner traffic is distributed among rec.travel.air,
sci.aeronautics, comp.risks, and rec.aviation, in declining order of
frequency. Some consolidation of this type of traffic is clearly needed.
Going into the discussion period, I believed that the user-base for an
airliners group was too tenuous for it to work. I have changed that
opinion. However, the question of which forum is more appropriate for
an airliner sub-group lingers: sci.aeronautics, or rec.aviation. I feel
the correct choice is sci.aeronautics, for the following reasons:
1. The "technical" aspects of the proposed charter clearly match the
charter of sci.aeronautics; it would be a "case-study" group. When
sci.aeronautics was created, "aeronautics" was very carefully chosen
as its name, to give the charter more breadth than "aerodynamics" or
other similar "specialty" terms would imply. It was intended to deal
with the *technology* of aerospace, in both theoretical and practical
applications.
2. Sci.aeronautics reaches more technical sites than rec.aviation,
Of particular concern is the fact that many aerospace companies simply
do not import rec.*. This means that by including an airliner group in
rec.*, we would automatically be excluding many of the people the group
needs the most, in order to work.
3. In a similar vein, many educational sites do not receive rec.*.
Especially with an increasing number of high schools developing their
own sub-nets, experimenting with the use of usenet in a teaching
environment, creating a useful, low-noise group under the sci.*
hierarchy could have far-reaching ramifications.
4. Rec.aviation's forte has always been *general* aviation: that's
what the group's for, and that's why it's in the rec.* hierarchy.
Rec.aviation has been characterized by technical, specialized traffic,
*but* the orientation strongly remains *general* aviation (general
aviation is the FAA's designation for non-commercial, non-military
aviation). General aviation is what the rec.aviation users *do*,
what they *fly*, what they *know* about. It is a group that any
conscientious private pilot should read.
However, specialized, technical discussions, outside the scope of
"classical" general aviation, have tended to be relatively low-signal,
intermittent, and somewhat repetitious. These discussions do not
necessarily belong in rec.aviation, any more than discussions on, say,
ticket-prices do. When alternative forums exist for this "specialist"
traffic, they should be utilized, and this is the case with
sci.aeronautics.
5. For the many people not interested in "flying," per se, but only
*technology*, sci.aeronautics is the logical place to look for
technical discussions of this type.
6. "Sci," in general, is supposed to get people to think more clearly
about subjects, before they post. This is obviously not always the
case (and I'm *occasionally* an offender :-)), but the idea's there.
I propose that sci.aeronautics.airliners be created as a *moderated* group.
Why? Simply because these discussions sometimes create a *lot* of
noise. For example, some twenty non-informative posts resulted from the
crash of a USAir jetliner earlier this year; over half of them were "what do
you think happened?" queries, within a day of the crash. Earlier, over *50*
posts were dedicated to the "Fat Guy on Southwest" thread, about an
overweight passenger getting bumped. And 28 posts resulted from one
person asking for help identifying an unknown tail logo he saw at an
airport--all replying with much the same information.
I have nothing against the people who ask and answer these questions: it's
just not a very useful utilization of resources, overall, and is, occasion-
ally, an *abysmal* utilization of resources. Thus, moderation of some kind
is called for, if not to guide the *qualitative* traffic, then to at least
cut down on the *repetition*.
I would love to do it: however, inasmuch as I tend to step on too many
toes (:-)), I propose Karl Swartz. Karl has contributed a large number of
highly informative discussions to the various airliners groups over
the years. He's literate, well-informed, level-headed, and can be
trusted to do a good job. He's interested in both "technical" issues, and
more "enthusiast-ish" issues, which would tend to ensure a fair balance of
posts. He's indicated that he would use a very flexible moderation style,
essentially reposting all messages until a "noise threshold" is reached.
He's also expressed interest in the "co-moderation" concept, so as to keep
the group alive, if any single moderator should go off on vacation or be
indisposed; this can also be used for "load-shedding" if it should evolve
into a high-volume group.
"What about the rec.aviation re-organization?" you might ask.
Geoff's proposal is about to go to a formal vote. Well, the bottom line is:
he has an alternate take on this. He feels that an airliner group in
rec.aviation could work, and it will appear on his CFV. I respectfully
disagree with his decision to include it, but wish him the best of luck with
most of the remainder of his proposal.
The reason I'm posting this RFD at this late point is that I don't feel the
issue has been sufficiently discussed, nor that the interests of "non-
rec.aviation" viewpoints on the net have been sufficiently considered.
To make a long story short, I've been pushing for an airliners group
since 1985. I still have misgivings as to whether one would work,
but if we're going to establish the framework, I think it should be one
that will produce the "best," most technical, low-noise discussions, one
which will clearly delineate engineering/human factors/operations
discussions, and one which will be flexible enough to let us grow into, as
more and more aerospace personnel join the net, and the character of the
traffic changes from speculative/academic, to applications-oriented.
I feel that sci.aeronautics.airliners is the only logical choice, while
a *rec* group is a big step in the wrong direction, and an unmoderated rec
group even worse.
Since the rec.aviation re-organization discussion period failed to address
this issue clearly (one among a dozen and a half proposed groups), I'm
hoping this RFD will, and will influence the vote in favor of an eventual
CFV for the sci.aeronautics.airliners group, AND incline users to vote
against the rec.aviation.airliners group, in the short term.
Therefore, to kick off THIS discussion period, I ask you to answer the
following four questions:
1. Do you support an airliners group at ALL?
2. Do you feel it should be under sci.aeronautics?
3. Do you feel it should be under rec.aviation?
4. Do you feel that an airliners group should be moderated?
Just reply to this message, or send email to
airliner-survey@rascal.ics.utexas.edu. Any additional commentary is, as
always, most welcome.
As with the rec.aviation survey, this set of questions is non-binding:
it's solely to help me take a straw poll of the relative support of the
two proposals. You will have an opportunity to issue a formal vote
for or against the group if this proposal goes to a call-for-votes in
four weeks' time.
Please direct all follow-ups to news.groups.
--
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
From rdd@cactus.org Tue Sep 29 09:38:17 1992
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From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: CFV: sci.aeronautics.airliners moderated
Message-ID: <BvC7p6.203@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Reply-To: airliner-vote@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 11:24:41 GMT
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Lines: 91
CALL FOR VOTES: SCI.AERONAUTICS.AIRLINERS
PROPOSED CHARTER:
A moderated discussion group on airliner technology: the design,
construction, performance, human factors, operation, and histories
of transport-category airplanes.
HOW TO VOTE:
To register a vote, send an email message to:
airliner-vote@rascal.ics.utexas.edu.
Include the word "Yes" in the message subject if you believe the group,
as proposed, SHOULD be created.
Include the word "No" in the message subject if you believe the group,
as proposed, should NOT be created.
Be sure to vote only once (YES *or* NO).
To discuss a vote, or request a change in your vote, send an email message
to:
airliner-vote-request@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
Please direct all public follow-ups to news.groups. No public votes
will be counted.
VOTING PERIOD:
0000 CST September 29, 1992 through 0000 CST October 29, 1992.
This CFV will be repeated weekly, along with initial acknowledgements
of votes.
Shortly after the CFV period ends, the vote will be summarized to
all relevant newsgroups. If the group receives 100 more YES votes
than NO votes, and there is a majority of at least 2/3 in favor of the
group, the group will be created, in accordance with net guidelines.
RATIONALE
This group should be created for the following reasons:
1. There is a broad user-base that will support and use it.
2. Those *not* interested in airliner traffic want it off groups it
isn't appropriate for. Currently, airliner traffic overlaps
sci.aeronautics, comp.risks, rec.travel.air, rec.travel, and
rec.aviation, in about that order, with significant repetition.
This group should be created in the sci.aeronautics hierarchy because:
1. More aerospace-industry sites receive sci.aeronautics than
rec.aviation, the other candidate as a home for the group. Some
level of participation by those in the industry is very important
for the group to work, in the long term.
2. The group charter is closely aligned with sci.aeronautics' original
charter and intent.
3. Sci.aeronautics has a broader technical agenda than rec.aviation:
rec.aviation's strength is and always has been recreational general
aviation. While it has "worked" very well with this emphasis, many
users with "aviation" interests that may be more specialized,
technical, or academic than a general aviation forum provides, tend
to bypass the group.
4. "Educational" sites (particularly the emerging secondary education
networks) are more likely to receive a group under sci than any
other hierarchy.
The group is proposed as moderated, in light of the high noise-levels
various popular airliner-discussions have created in the past year,
especially "noise" in the form of repetitious contributions or one-liners.
Karl Swartz (kls@ditka.chicago.com or kls@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu) has
volunteered to serve as initial moderator. He has indicated that his
moderation style will be mainly automatic message-forwarding, only
"clamping down" when a highly noisy discussion appears.
Karl has direct access to the Internet, and has indicated an interest in
archiving messages on his machine, for posterity (they will also be
archived, elsewhere).
I will serve as initial backup moderator. Other moderators may be added,
if the need arises.
From rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu Wed Oct 7 13:46:05 1992
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Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: 2nd CFV and VOTE ACK: sci.aeronautics.airliners moderated
Followup-To: poster
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:49:21 GMT
Message-ID: <BvpwIA.H59@uunet.uu.net>
Lines: 185
CALL FOR VOTES: SCI.AERONAUTICS.AIRLINERS
PROPOSED CHARTER:
A moderated discussion group on airliner technology: the design,
construction, performance, human factors, operation, and histories
of transport-category airplanes.
HOW TO VOTE:
To register a vote, send an email message to:
airliner-vote@rascal.ics.utexas.edu.
Include the word "Yes" in the message subject if you believe the group,
as proposed, SHOULD be created.
Include the word "No" in the message subject if you believe the group,
as proposed, should NOT be created.
Be sure to vote only once (YES *or* NO).
To discuss a vote, or request a change in your vote, send an email message
to:
airliner-vote-request@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
Please direct all public follow-ups to news.groups. No public votes
will be counted.
VOTING PERIOD:
0000 CST September 29, 1992 through 0000 CST October 29, 1992.
This CFV will be repeated weekly, along with initial acknowledgements
of votes.
Shortly after the CFV period ends, the vote will be summarized to
all relevant newsgroups. If the group receives 100 more YES votes
than NO votes, and there is a majority of at least 2/3 in favor of the
group, the group will be created, in accordance with net guidelines.
RATIONALE
This group should be created for the following reasons:
1. There is a broad user-base that will support and use it.
2. Those *not* interested in airliner traffic want it off groups it
isn't appropriate for. Currently, airliner traffic overlaps
sci.aeronautics, comp.risks, rec.travel.air, rec.travel, and
rec.aviation, in about that order, with significant repetition.
This group should be created in the sci.aeronautics hierarchy because:
1. More aerospace-industry sites receive sci.aeronautics than
rec.aviation, the other candidate as a home for the group. Some
level of participation by those in the industry is very important
for the group to work, in the long term.
2. The group charter is closely aligned with sci.aeronautics' original
charter and intent.
3. Sci.aeronautics has a broader technical agenda than rec.aviation:
rec.aviation's strength is and always has been recreational general
aviation. While it has "worked" very well with this emphasis, many
users with "aviation" interests that may be more specialized,
technical, or academic than a general aviation forum provides, tend
to bypass the group.
4. "Educational" sites (particularly the emerging secondary education
networks) are more likely to receive a group under sci than any
other hierarchy.
The group is proposed as moderated, in light of the high noise-levels
various popular airliner-discussions have created in the past year,
especially "noise" in the form of repetitious contributions or one-liners.
Karl Swartz (kls@ditka.chicago.com or kls@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu) has
volunteered to serve as initial moderator. He has indicated that his
moderation style will be mainly automatic message-forwarding, only
"clamping down" when a highly noisy discussion appears.
Karl has direct access to the Internet, and has indicated an interest in
archiving messages on his machine, for posterity (they will also be
archived, elsewhere).
I will serve as initial backup moderator. Other moderators may be added,
if the need arises.
-----------------------------
Initial vote acknowledgement:
"lavc01::BULLOCK"@cliff.bms.com "J. S. Bullock"
75706.2201@CompuServe.COM Scott Jacobson
DMCLEOD@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Ed.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM Ed Miller
Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM Geoff Miller
HEATWOLE@LANDO.HNS.COM Tony Heatwole
Jonathan.Bowen@prg.oxford.ac.uk
KCHAN%ESOC.BITNET@vm.gmd.de "Khee Chan, SSL/ESOC at JPL, ULYSSES
Nigel.Allen@lambada.oit.unc.edu
PLAUT@sc2a.unige.ch Olivier PLAUT
RANKIN%KANGA@vx.cis.umn.edu James Rankin
ROB@AUTOCTRL.RUG.AC.BE "Rob A. Vingerhoeds / University of
ahogben@mirage.informix.com Andy Hogben
altus@leland.stanford.edu Steve Altus
ativb@manta.nosc.mil Bob Bell
aultj@rpi.edu Jim Ault
barford@hpllab.hpl.hp.com
barr@ash.mmm.ucar.EDU Keith Barr
bdavis@ncratl.atlantaga.NCR.COM Ben Davis
berner@b-mrda.boeing.com Ann Berner
boudreau@Athena.MIT.EDU Carol V. Boudreau
bretth@ecn.purdue.edu Brett A. Hoffstadt
brunnstein@rz.informatik.uni-hamburg.dbp
ckd@eff.org Christopher Davis
daveg@misty.sara.fl.us Dave Goodman
david@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au David Masters
dillard%eccx.dnet@esu36.cfsat.honeywell. Life is a worst case scenario
donrm@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com Don Montgomery
driscoll@SRC.Honeywell.com Kevin Driscoll
eeyore@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu "Eric J. Olson"
emcguire@mama3.intellection.com
eugene@nas.nasa.gov Eugene N. Miya
fenwick@w0x0f.clipper.ingr.com Stephen Fenwick
gardnerm@spinee.emba.uvm.edu Mack GardnerMorse
geoff%siamese@sj.ate.slb.com Geoff Peck
ggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US Gregory G. Woodbury
gt0067b@prism.gatech.edu
gt4824a@prism.gatech.edu
guest9@sews.wpafb.af.mil GUEST 9
hegarty@iis.ethz.ch Christopher Hegarty
hopkins@gvlf9.GVL.Unisys.COM
hoyme@SRC.Honeywell.com Ken Hoyme
hrose@eff.org Helen Trillian Rose
i_pi!ingham@unmvax.cs.unm.edu Kenneth Ingham
jac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu John Clear
jaeger@buphy.bu.edu Gregg Jaeger
kls@ditka.Chicago.COM Karl Swartz
kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com Ken Koellner
laura@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com
lhe@sics.se Lars-Henrik Eriksson
lls2n@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU Leon Shieh
matwood%bullion@cs.utah.edu
mcelroy@avd00.larc.nasa.gov Marcus O. McElroy
mcmanus@wpi.WPI.EDU Pat McManus
mct@praxis.co.uk Martyn Thomas
meb4593@icdfs.boeing.com Michael Bain
metasoft!alan@uunet.UU.NET
mhpower@Athena.MIT.EDU
milgram@eng.umd.edu Judah Milgram
miller@hmrs11.wg3.waii.com Griff Miller X7114
mox@vpnet.chi.il.us William Moxley
nigel@modcomp.com Nigel Gamble
pab@po.CWRU.Edu Pete Babic
padraig@slab.pr.erau.edu Padraig Houlahan
parabosc@eclipse.Stanford.EDU Stefano Paraboschi
pedregal%unreal@cs.umass.edu
philsuth@mycroft.dialix.oz.au Phil Sutherland
plutchak@porter.geo.brown.edu Joel Plutchak
pm@cs.city.ac.uk Pete Mellor
pseudo!mjn@uunet.UU.NET Murray Nesbitt
psm@blacktip.cs.indiana.edu "Paul S. Miner"
raveling@kestrel.Unify.Com Paul Raveling
rdd Robert Dorsett
rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller
robg@apple.com
ruman@maemaster.eng.uci.edu ruman
shiau@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Duckie Shiau
tom@math.ufl.edu
tsdavies@mailbox.syr.edu ""T.S. Davies""
urf@ki.icl.se Urban F
vaivads@gandalf.ca Vic Vaivads
wagner@methusalix.kph.uni-mainz.de Axel Wagner
watkins@hsi.com Carl Watkins
weiss@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Michael Weiss
werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu Werner Uhrig
woodhams@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Michael Woodhams
woof@hpfcsdw.fc.hp.com Steve Wolf
From rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu Tue Oct 13 12:51:17 1992
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Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: 3rd CFV and VOTE ACK: sci.aeronautics.airliners moderated
Followup-To: poster
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Organization: UTexas
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:41:57 GMT
Message-ID: <Bw2Gxz.3EI@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: airliner-vote@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
Lines: 226
CALL FOR VOTES: SCI.AERONAUTICS.AIRLINERS
PROPOSED CHARTER:
A moderated discussion group on airliner technology: the design,
construction, performance, human factors, operation, and histories
of transport-category airplanes.
HOW TO VOTE:
To register a vote, send an email message to:
airliner-vote@rascal.ics.utexas.edu.
Include the word "Yes" in the message subject if you believe the group,
as proposed, SHOULD be created.
Include the word "No" in the message subject if you believe the group,
as proposed, should NOT be created.
Be sure to vote only once (YES *or* NO).
To discuss a vote, or request a change in your vote, send an email message
to:
airliner-vote-request@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
Please direct all public follow-ups to news.groups. No public votes
will be counted.
VOTING PERIOD:
0000 CST September 29, 1992 through 0000 CST October 29, 1992.
This CFV will be repeated weekly, along with initial acknowledgements
of votes.
Shortly after the CFV period ends, the vote will be summarized to
all relevant newsgroups. If the group receives 100 more YES votes
than NO votes, and there is a majority of at least 2/3 in favor of the
group, the group will be created, in accordance with net guidelines.
RATIONALE
This group should be created for the following reasons:
1. There is a broad user-base that will support and use it.
2. Those *not* interested in airliner traffic want it off groups it
isn't appropriate for. Currently, airliner traffic overlaps
sci.aeronautics, comp.risks, rec.travel.air, rec.travel, and
rec.aviation, in about that order, with significant repetition.
This group should be created in the sci.aeronautics hierarchy because:
1. More aerospace-industry sites receive sci.aeronautics than
rec.aviation, the other candidate as a home for the group. Some
level of participation by those in the industry is very important
for the group to work, in the long term.
2. The group charter is closely aligned with sci.aeronautics' original
charter and intent.
3. Sci.aeronautics has a broader technical agenda than rec.aviation:
rec.aviation's strength is and always has been recreational general
aviation. While it has "worked" very well with this emphasis, many
users with "aviation" interests that may be more specialized,
technical, or academic than a general aviation forum provides, tend
to bypass the group.
4. "Educational" sites (particularly the emerging secondary education
networks) are more likely to receive a group under sci than any
other hierarchy.
The group is proposed as moderated, in light of the high noise-levels
various popular airliner-discussions have created in the past year,
especially "noise" in the form of repetitious contributions or one-liners.
Karl Swartz (kls@ditka.chicago.com or kls@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu) has
volunteered to serve as initial moderator. He has indicated that his
moderation style will be mainly automatic message-forwarding, only
"clamping down" when a highly noisy discussion appears.
Karl has direct access to the Internet, and has indicated an interest in
archiving messages on his machine, for posterity (they will also be
archived, elsewhere).
I will serve as initial backup moderator. Other moderators may be added,
if the need arises.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote acknowledgement: votes received through 0000 CST, October 15, 1992:
"lavc01::BULLOCK"@cliff.bms.com "J. S. Bullock"
75706.2201@CompuServe.COM Scott Jacobson
B.A.Younis@city.ac.uk
DMCLEOD@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Ed.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM Ed Miller
FEITH@VAX309.NHRC.NAVY.MIL
Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM Geoff Miller
HEATWOLE@LANDO.HNS.COM Tony Heatwole
JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Jonathan.Bowen@prg.oxford.ac.uk
KCHAN%ESOC.BITNET@vm.gmd.de "Khee Chan, SSL/ESOC at JPL, ULYSSES
Nigel.Allen@lambada.oit.unc.edu
PAVER@MAXIMILLION.MCC.COM Bob Paver
PLAUT@sc2a.unige.ch Olivier PLAUT
RANKIN%KANGA@vx.cis.umn.edu James Rankin
ROB@AUTOCTRL.RUG.AC.BE "Rob A. Vingerhoeds / University of
aap@cs.brown.edu Andrea A. Pietracaprina
ahogben@mirage.informix.com Andy Hogben
altus@leland.stanford.edu Steve Altus
ativb@manta.nosc.mil Bob Bell
aultj@rpi.edu Jim Ault
barford@hpllab.hpl.hp.com
barr@ash.mmm.ucar.EDU Keith Barr
bdavis@ncratl.atlantaga.NCR.COM Ben Davis
berner@b-mrda.boeing.com Ann Berner
boudreau@Athena.MIT.EDU Carol V. Boudreau
bretth@ecn.purdue.edu Brett A. Hoffstadt
brooks@imsl3.imsl.com Mike Brooks
brunnstein@rz.informatik.uni-hamburg.dbp
cep@blowfish.taligent.com Christophe Pettus
chris@airdata.socal.com "Chris J. Davis"
cid@Athena.MIT.EDU Derek H. Cedillo
ckd@eff.org Christopher Davis
clive@mcc.com Clive Dawson
clout!homebru!smith!dick@cs.uchicago.edu
daveg@misty.sara.fl.us Dave Goodman
david@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au David Masters
dela@ee.rochester.edu Del Armstrong
diana@wetware.com Diana G.
dillard%eccx.dnet@esu36.cfsat.honeywell. Life is a worst case scenario
djmurphy@wam.umd.edu David Murphy
donrm@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com Don Montgomery
drieux@wetware.com Drieux
driscoll@SRC.Honeywell.com Kevin Driscoll
eeyore@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu "Eric J. Olson"
emcguire@mama3.intellection.com
erik@tera.com Erik Hedberg
eugene@nas.nasa.gov Eugene N. Miya
fenwick@w0x0f.clipper.ingr.com Stephen Fenwick
fitz@wang.com Tom Fitzgerald
gardnerm@spinee.emba.uvm.edu Mack GardnerMorse
gary@192.160.241.1 "gary"
geoff%siamese@sj.ate.slb.com Geoff Peck
ggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US Gregory G. Woodbury
gl1@cec2.wustl.edu Greg Lyon
gt0067b@prism.gatech.edu
gt4824a@prism.gatech.edu
guest9@sews.wpafb.af.mil GUEST 9
hegarty@iis.ethz.ch Christopher Hegarty
hijuri@uta.fi Jussi-Pekka Rikala
hopkins@gvlf9.GVL.Unisys.COM
hoyme@SRC.Honeywell.com Ken Hoyme
hrose@eff.org Helen Trillian Rose
i_pi!ingham@unmvax.cs.unm.edu Kenneth Ingham
jac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu John Clear
jaeger@buphy.bu.edu Gregg Jaeger
jeffg@loki.esd.sgi.com Jeff C. Glover
jlaine@mdata.fi Joakim Laine
joann@UNIXHUB.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
kannan91@iastate.edu
khubbard@ems.cdc.com Kelvin Hubbard
kls@ditka.Chicago.COM Karl Swartz
kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com Ken Koellner
laura@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com
lhe@sics.se Lars-Henrik Eriksson
lls2n@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU Leon Shieh
lsmith@CLI.COM Larry Smith
mark@tab00.larc.nasa.gov Mark Flanagan
matwood%bullion@cs.utah.edu
mcelroy@avd00.larc.nasa.gov Marcus O. McElroy
mcmanus@wpi.WPI.EDU Pat McManus
mct@praxis.co.uk Martyn Thomas
meb4593@icdfs.boeing.com Michael Bain
meb@UNIXHUB.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Mark Barnett
metasoft!alan@uunet.UU.NET
mhpower@Athena.MIT.EDU
milgram@eng.umd.edu Judah Milgram
miller@hmrs11.wg3.waii.com Griff Miller X7114
mox@vpnet.chi.il.us William Moxley
mujtaba@goose.stanford.edu "Syed Aon Mujtaba"
mwj@beta.lanl.gov William Johnson
newton@cs.utexas.edu Peter Newton
nigel@modcomp.com Nigel Gamble
nulspace@cs.UMD.EDU Michael Chang
pab@po.CWRU.Edu Pete Babic
padraig@slab.pr.erau.edu Padraig Houlahan
palmer@icat.larc.nasa.gov Michael T. Palmer
parabosc@eclipse.Stanford.EDU Stefano Paraboschi
pas@cc.gatech.edu Paulo Santos
pedregal%unreal@cs.umass.edu
philsuth@mycroft.dialix.oz.au Phil Sutherland
plutchak@porter.geo.brown.edu Joel Plutchak
pm@cs.city.ac.uk Pete Mellor
pseudo!mjn@uunet.UU.NET Murray Nesbitt
psm@blacktip.cs.indiana.edu "Paul S. Miner"
raveling@kestrel.Unify.Com Paul Raveling
rdd Robert Dorsett
rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu Robert Dorsett
rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller
robg@apple.com
ruman@maemaster.eng.uci.edu ruman
shiau@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Duckie Shiau
skyline!gk Gary Kremen
spagiola@FRI-nxt-Pagiola.Stanford.EDU Stefano Pagiola
sven@cs.widener.edu "Sven M. Heinicke"
tom@math.ufl.edu
tom@math.ufl.edu
tsdavies@mailbox.syr.edu ""T.S. Davies""
tucusito@kokuki.kuaero.kyoto-u.ac.jp
urf@ki.icl.se Urban F
vaivads@gandalf.ca Vic Vaivads
wagner@methusalix.kph.uni-mainz.de Axel Wagner
watkins@hsi.com Carl Watkins
weik@PrakInf.TH-Ilmenau.DE
weiss@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Michael Weiss
werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu Werner Uhrig
wloo@eng.umd.edu Weekhuan Loo
woodhams@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Michael Woodhams
woof@hpfcsdw.fc.hp.com Steve Wolf
From rdd@cactus.org Thu Oct 22 21:18:27 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2865 news.groups:58172 sci.aeronautics:5081 rec.aviation.misc:236 rec.travel.air:5281 rec.aviation.simulators:247
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.aeronautics,rec.aviation.misc,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.simulators
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: 4th CFV and VOTE ACK: sci.aeronautics.airliners
Followup-To: poster
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 23:01:50 GMT
Message-ID: <BwJpB3.5HK@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: airliner-vote@rascal.ics.utexas.edu.
Lines: 260
CALL FOR VOTES: SCI.AERONAUTICS.AIRLINERS
PROPOSED CHARTER:
A moderated discussion group on airliner technology: the design,
construction, performance, human factors, operation, and histories
of transport-category airplanes.
HOW TO VOTE:
To register a vote, send an email message to:
airliner-vote@rascal.ics.utexas.edu.
Include the word "Yes" in the message subject if you believe the group,
as proposed, SHOULD be created.
Include the word "No" in the message subject if you believe the group,
as proposed, should NOT be created.
Be sure to vote only once (YES *or* NO).
To discuss a vote, or request a change in your vote, send an email message
to:
airliner-vote-request@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
Please direct all public follow-ups to news.groups. No public votes
will be counted.
VOTING PERIOD:
0000 CST September 29, 1992 through 0000 CST October 29, 1992.
This CFV will be repeated weekly, along with initial acknowledgements
of votes.
Shortly after the CFV period ends, the vote will be summarized to
all relevant newsgroups. If the group receives 100 more YES votes
than NO votes, and there is a majority of at least 2/3 in favor of the
group, the group will be created, in accordance with net guidelines.
RATIONALE
This group should be created for the following reasons:
1. There is a broad user-base that will support and use it.
2. Those *not* interested in airliner traffic want it off groups it
isn't appropriate for. Currently, airliner traffic overlaps
sci.aeronautics, comp.risks, rec.travel.air, rec.travel, and
rec.aviation, in about that order, with significant repetition.
This group should be created in the sci.aeronautics hierarchy because:
1. More aerospace-industry sites receive sci.aeronautics than
rec.aviation, the other candidate as a home for the group. Some
level of participation by those in the industry is very important
for the group to work, in the long term.
2. The group charter is closely aligned with sci.aeronautics' original
charter and intent.
3. Sci.aeronautics has a broader technical agenda than rec.aviation:
rec.aviation's strength is and always has been recreational general
aviation. While it has "worked" very well with this emphasis, many
users with "aviation" interests that may be more specialized,
technical, or academic than a general aviation forum provides, tend
to bypass the group.
4. "Educational" sites (particularly the emerging secondary education
networks) are more likely to receive a group under sci than any
other hierarchy.
The group is proposed as moderated, in light of the high noise-levels
various popular airliner-discussions have created in the past year,
especially "noise" in the form of repetitious contributions or one-liners.
Karl Swartz (kls@ditka.chicago.com or kls@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu) has
volunteered to serve as initial moderator. He has indicated that his
moderation style will be mainly automatic message-forwarding, only
"clamping down" when a highly noisy discussion appears.
Karl has direct access to the Internet, and has indicated an interest in
archiving messages on his machine, for posterity (they will also be
archived, elsewhere).
I will serve as initial backup moderator. Other moderators may be added,
if the need arises.
---------------------------------- cut here ---------------------------------
The following votes have been received as of 0000 CST on October 16:
"lavc01::BULLOCK"@cliff.bms.com "J. S. Bullock"
75706.2201@CompuServe.COM Scott Jacobson
B.A.Younis@city.ac.uk
DMCLEOD@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Ed.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM Ed Miller
FEITH@VAX309.NHRC.NAVY.MIL
Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM Geoff Miller
HEATWOLE@LANDO.HNS.COM Tony Heatwole
JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Jonathan.Bowen@prg.oxford.ac.uk
KCHAN%ESOC.BITNET@vm.gmd.de "Khee Chan, SSL/ESOC at JPL, ULYSSES
Kevin@lemoore.ati.com
Nigel.Allen@lambada.oit.unc.edu
PAVER@MAXIMILLION.MCC.COM Bob Paver
PLAUT@sc2a.unige.ch Olivier PLAUT
Phil.Nickerson@gsi.fr
RANKIN%KANGA@vx.cis.umn.edu James Rankin
ROB@AUTOCTRL.RUG.AC.BE "Rob A. Vingerhoeds / University of
S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU Glenn Radinsky (S05152@doc.flc.color
Steve_Smith@kcbbs.gen.nz Steve Smith
aap@cs.brown.edu Andrea A. Pietracaprina
afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au Alistair Scott
ahogben@mirage.informix.com Andy Hogben
altus@leland.stanford.edu Steve Altus
ativb@manta.nosc.mil Bob Bell
aultj@rpi.edu Jim Ault
barford@hpllab.hpl.hp.com
barr@ash.mmm.ucar.EDU Keith Barr
barrett@cc.gatech.edu James Barrett
bdavis@ncratl.atlantaga.NCR.COM Ben Davis
berner@b-mrda.boeing.com Ann Berner
boudreau@Athena.MIT.EDU Carol V. Boudreau
bretth@ecn.purdue.edu Brett A. Hoffstadt
brooks@imsl3.imsl.com Mike Brooks
brunnstein@rz.informatik.uni-hamburg.dbp
cep@blowfish.taligent.com Christophe Pettus
chris@airdata.socal.com "Chris J. Davis"
chrise@atc.boeing.com Chris Esposito
cid@Athena.MIT.EDU Derek H. Cedillo
cjackson@mgh.com Craig Jackson
ckd@eff.org Christopher Davis
clive@mcc.com Clive Dawson
clout!homebru!smith!dick@cs.uchicago.edu
d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
daveg@misty.sara.fl.us Dave Goodman
david@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au David Masters
dela@ee.rochester.edu Del Armstrong
diana@wetware.com Diana G.
dillard%eccx.dnet@esu36.cfsat.honeywell. Life is a worst case scenario
djmurphy@wam.umd.edu David Murphy
donrm@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com Don Montgomery
drieux@wetware.com Drieux
driscoll@SRC.Honeywell.com Kevin Driscoll
eandersn@mach2.wlu.ca Niels Ejvind Andersen
eeyore@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu "Eric J. Olson"
emcguire@mama3.intellection.com
eric@kerbor.fr Eric Meyer
erik@tera.com Erik Hedberg
eugene@nas.nasa.gov Eugene N. Miya
fenwick@w0x0f.clipper.ingr.com Stephen Fenwick
fitz@wang.com Tom Fitzgerald
gaijin@ale.Japan.Sun.COM John Little - Nihon Sun Repair Depot
gardnerm@spinee.emba.uvm.edu Mack GardnerMorse
garrison@elvis.dmcc.com Bill Garrison
gary@192.160.241.1 "gary"
gary@bcsfse.boeing.com Gary Sires
geoff%siamese@sj.ate.slb.com Geoff Peck
ggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US Gregory G. Woodbury
gl1@cec2.wustl.edu Greg Lyon
gt0067b@prism.gatech.edu
gt4824a@prism.gatech.edu
guest9@sews.wpafb.af.mil GUEST 9
hegarty@iis.ethz.ch Christopher Hegarty
hijuri@uta.fi Jussi-Pekka Rikala
hopkins@gvlf9.GVL.Unisys.COM
hoyme@SRC.Honeywell.com Ken Hoyme
hrose@eff.org Helen Trillian Rose
i_pi!ingham@unmvax.cs.unm.edu Kenneth Ingham
ie@cxa.daresbury.ac.uk "B.G. Martlew"
jac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu John Clear
jaeger@buphy.bu.edu Gregg Jaeger
jeffg@loki.esd.sgi.com Jeff C. Glover
jlaine@mdata.fi Joakim Laine
jno3190@bcstec.ca.boeing.com John N. Otakie
joann@UNIXHUB.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
john@civil.su.oz.au John Mackin
jwlin@soda.berkeley.edu Jon Lin
kannan91@iastate.edu
kde21@cas.org Ken Eichman (kde21@cas.org
kevin_bailey@qmgate.anl.gov "Kevin Bailey"
khubbard@ems.cdc.com Kelvin Hubbard
kls@ditka.Chicago.COM Karl Swartz
krissie@snap.la.locus.com Krissie Griffiths
kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com Ken Koellner
laura@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com
lhe@sics.se Lars-Henrik Eriksson
lls2n@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU Leon Shieh
lsmith@CLI.COM Larry Smith
mark@tab00.larc.nasa.gov Mark Flanagan
matwood%bullion@cs.utah.edu
mcelroy@avd00.larc.nasa.gov Marcus O. McElroy
mcmanus@wpi.WPI.EDU Pat McManus
mct@praxis.co.uk Martyn Thomas
meb4593@icdfs.boeing.com Michael Bain
meb@UNIXHUB.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Mark Barnett
metasoft!alan@uunet.UU.NET
mgm@royko.Chicago.COM Marty Masters
mhpower@Athena.MIT.EDU
milgram@eng.umd.edu Judah Milgram
miller@hmrs11.wg3.waii.com Griff Miller X7114
mjt@sam.ca.boeing.com Jim Tallant
mmt@redbrick.com Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS
mox@vpnet.chi.il.us William Moxley
mujtaba@goose.stanford.edu "Syed Aon Mujtaba"
mwj@beta.lanl.gov William Johnson
newton@cs.utexas.edu Peter Newton
nigel@modcomp.com Nigel Gamble
nulspace@cs.UMD.EDU Michael Chang
oneel@arupa.gsfc.nasa.gov Bruce Oneel
pab@po.CWRU.Edu Pete Babic
padraig@slab.pr.erau.edu Padraig Houlahan
palmer@icat.larc.nasa.gov Michael T. Palmer
parabosc@eclipse.Stanford.EDU Stefano Paraboschi
pas@cc.gatech.edu Paulo Santos
pauln@ihlpl.att.com
pedregal%unreal@cs.umass.edu
pereckas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Michael Pereckas
pete@frosty.rational.com Pete Coe
philsuth@mycroft.dialix.oz.au Phil Sutherland
plutchak@porter.geo.brown.edu Joel Plutchak
pm@cs.city.ac.uk Pete Mellor
pseudo!mjn@uunet.UU.NET Murray Nesbitt
pshuang@Athena.MIT.EDU
psm@blacktip.cs.indiana.edu "Paul S. Miner"
raveling@kestrel.Unify.Com Paul Raveling
rdd Robert Dorsett
rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller
rmiller@i88.isc.com Richard J. Miller
robg@apple.com
ruman@maemaster.eng.uci.edu ruman
shiau@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Duckie Shiau
skyline!gk Gary Kremen
spagiola@FRI-nxt-Pagiola.Stanford.EDU Stefano Pagiola
stack@translab.its.uci.edu Robert Stack
stephen@boeing.com Stephen L Nicoud
sven@cs.widener.edu "Sven M. Heinicke"
tlw7737@aw2.fsl.ca.boeing.com "Thomas L. Webber"
tmadam@ecr.mu.oz.au Timothy_Mclean ADAM
tom@math.ufl.edu
tomm@voodoo.boeing.com Tom Mackey
tsdavies@mailbox.syr.edu ""T.S. Davies""
tucusito@kokuki.kuaero.kyoto-u.ac.jp
urf@ki.icl.se Urban F
vaivads@gandalf.ca Vic Vaivads
wagner@methusalix.kph.uni-mainz.de Axel Wagner
watkins@hsi.com Carl Watkins
weik@PrakInf.TH-Ilmenau.DE
weiss@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Michael Weiss
werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu Werner Uhrig
wloo@eng.umd.edu Weekhuan Loo
woodhams@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Michael Woodhams
woof@hpfcsdw.fc.hp.com Steve Wolf
zs@cs.mu.OZ.AU Zoltan Somogyi
From rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu Mon Nov 2 15:43:15 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2892 news.groups:58660 sci.aeronautics:5128 rec.aviation.misc:421 rec.aviation.simulators:343 rec.travel:42745 rec.travel.air:5436
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.aeronautics,rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation.simulators,rec.travel,rec.travel.air
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: RESULT: sci.aeronautics.airliners passes 169:26
Followup-To: news.groups
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 15:15:13 GMT
Message-ID: <Bx3H1F.E3D@uunet.uu.net>
Lines: 259
The voting for sci.aeronautics.airliners ended on 0000 CST, October 29, 1992.
The group has passed; my sincerest thanks to everyone who supported it.
=== OFFICIAL VOTE TALLY ===
Valid Votes Cast: 195
"Yes" Votes: 169 (86.67% of valid votes)
"No" Votes: 26 (13.33% of valid votes)
Yes-No Margin: 143
Percentage Test: pass (is yes/valid >= 66.67%?)
Margin Test: pass (is yes-no >= 100?)
VOTE RESULT: PASS (do both tests pass?)
In approximately one week, barring any significant problems, a newgroup
message should be issued by the news.announce.newgroups moderator.
The newsgroup's charter is:
A moderated discussion group on airliner technology: the design,
construction, performance, human factors, operation, and histories
of transport-category airplanes.
The main moderator is Karl Swartz:
kls@ditka.chicago.com, or airliners-admin@chicago.com
I am backup moderator:
rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
The vote was partially administered with software kindly provided by Chip
Rosenthal.
=== TOP TEN VOTING DOMAINS ===
13 boeing.com
8 nasa.gov
8 ac.uk
7 stanford.edu
6 oz.au
5 umd.edu
5 mit.edu
4 selu.edu
4 hp.com
4 gatech.edu
=== OFFICIAL VOTE RECORD ===
n == "no" vote
y == "yes" vote
Nays:
n barford@hpllab.hpl.hp.com
n barrett@cc.gatech.edu James Barrett
n bretth@ecn.purdue.edu Brett A. Hoffstadt
n cjackson@mgh.com Craig Jackson
n clout!homebru!smith!dick@cs.uchicago.edu
n court@newton.physics.mun.ca J. Lewis
n ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu "Eric J. Olson"
n fitz@wang.com Tom Fitzgerald
n gardnerm@spinee.emba.uvm.edu Mack GardnerMorse
n geoff%siamese@sj.ate.slb.com Geoff Peck
n jeffg@loki.esd.sgi.com Jeff C. Glover
n jwlin@soda.berkeley.edu Jon Lin
n kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com Ken Koellner
n mark@tab00.larc.nasa.gov Mark Flanagan
n mhpower@Athena.MIT.EDU
n mwj@beta.lanl.gov William Johnson
n nulspace@cs.UMD.EDU Michael Chang
n plutchak@porter.geo.brown.edu Joel Plutchak
n pseudo!mjn@uunet.UU.NET Murray Nesbitt
n rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller
n shiau@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Duckie Shiau
n simpsong@dns0.bham.ac.uk Glyn Simpson
n sven@cs.widener.edu "Sven M. Heinicke"
n tsdavies@mailbox.syr.edu ""T.S. Davies""
n urf@ki.icl.se Urban F
n woof@hpfcsdw.fc.hp.com Steve Wolf
Yays:
y "lavc01::BULLOCK"@cliff.bms.com "J. S. Bullock"
y 72571.543@CompuServe.COM Robert Green
y 75706.2201@CompuServe.COM Scott Jacobson
y aap@cs.brown.edu Andrea A. Pietracaprina
y afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au Alistair Scott
y ahogben@mirage.informix.com Andy Hogben
y altus@leland.stanford.edu Steve Altus
y ativb@manta.nosc.mil Bob Bell
y aultj@rpi.edu Jim Ault
y B.A.Younis@city.ac.uk
y babu@wpi.WPI.EDU Venkatesh Gopalakrishnan
y barr@ash.mmm.ucar.EDU Keith Barr
y bartsch@spot.Colorado.EDU Eric Bartsch
y bdavis@ncratl.atlantaga.NCR.COM Ben Davis
y berner@b-mrda.boeing.com Ann Berner
y bhazlehu@cogsci.UCSD.EDU Brian Hazlehurst
y boudreau@Athena.MIT.EDU Carol V. Boudreau
y brooks@imsl3.imsl.com Mike Brooks
y brunnstein@rz.informatik.uni-hamburg.dbp
y cep@blowfish.taligent.com Christophe Pettus
y chris@airdata.socal.com "Chris J. Davis"
y chrise@atc.boeing.com Chris Esposito
y Christian.Kuehnke@arbi.informatik.uni-ol Christian Kuehnke
y cid@Athena.MIT.EDU Derek H. Cedillo
y ckd@eff.org Christopher Davis
y clive@mcc.com Clive Dawson
y cth@uglab00.math.ncsu.edu Christopher T. Hudgin
y d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
y daveg@misty.sara.fl.us Dave Goodman
y david@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au David Masters
y dela@ee.rochester.edu Del Armstrong
y diana@wetware.com Diana G.
y dillard%eccx.dnet@esu36.cfsat.honeywell. Life is a worst case scenario
y djmurphy@wam.umd.edu David Murphy
y DMCLEOD@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
y donrm@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com Don Montgomery
y dorn%indigo.mese.com@mathcs.emory.edu "ALAN DORN HETZEL JR"
y drieux@wetware.com Drieux
y driscoll@SRC.Honeywell.com Kevin Driscoll
y duchad@rpi.edu David Benedict Ducharme
y eandersn@mach2.wlu.ca Niels Ejvind Andersen
y Ed.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM Ed Miller
y eeyore@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
y emcguire@mama3.intellection.com
y eric@kerbor.fr Eric Meyer
y erik@tera.com Erik Hedberg
y eugene@nas.nasa.gov Eugene N. Miya
y FEITH@VAX309.NHRC.NAVY.MIL
y fenwick@w0x0f.clipper.ingr.com Stephen Fenwick
y flier@excalsys.excalsys.com Rich Reynolds
y gaijin@ale.Japan.Sun.COM John Little - Nihon Sun Repair Depot
y garrison@elvis.dmcc.com Bill Garrison
y gary@192.160.241.1 "gary"
y gary@bcsfse.boeing.com Gary Sires
y Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM Geoff Miller
y ggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US Gregory G. Woodbury
y gl1@cec2.wustl.edu Greg Lyon
y gregory@bcstec.ca.boeing.com Greg Wright
y gt0067b@prism.gatech.edu
y gt4824a@prism.gatech.edu
y guest9@sews.wpafb.af.mil GUEST 9
y HEATWOLE@LANDO.HNS.COM Tony Heatwole
y hegarty@iis.ethz.ch Christopher Hegarty
y hijuri@uta.fi Jussi-Pekka Rikala
y hopkins@gvlf9.GVL.Unisys.COM
y hoyme@SRC.Honeywell.com Ken Hoyme
y hrose@eff.org Helen Trillian Rose
y ie@cxa.daresbury.ac.uk "B.G. Martlew"
y i_pi!ingham@unmvax.cs.unm.edu Kenneth Ingham
y jac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu John Clear
y jac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu John Clear
y jaeger@buphy.bu.edu Gregg Jaeger
y jlaine@mdata.fi Joakim Laine
y JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
y jno3190@bcstec.ca.boeing.com John N. Otakie
y joann@UNIXHUB.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
y john@civil.su.oz.au John Mackin
y Jonathan.Bowen@prg.oxford.ac.uk
y kannan91@iastate.edu
y KCHAN%ESOC.BITNET@vm.gmd.de "Khee Chan, SSL/ESOC at JPL, ULYSSES
y kde21@cas.org Ken Eichman (kde21@cas.org
y Kevin@lemoore.ati.com
y kevin_bailey@qmgate.anl.gov "Kevin Bailey"
y khubbard@ems.cdc.com Kelvin Hubbard
y klemm@hpbeo83.bbn.hp.com Wolfgang Klemm
y kls@ditka.Chicago.COM Karl Swartz
y krissie@snap.la.locus.com Krissie Griffiths
y laura@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com
y lhe@sics.se Lars-Henrik Eriksson
y lls2n@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU Leon Shieh
y lsmith@CLI.COM Larry Smith
y matwood%bullion@cs.utah.edu
y mce5921@bcstec.ca.boeing.com Martin Emde
y mcelroy@avd00.larc.nasa.gov Marcus O. McElroy
y mcmanus@wpi.WPI.EDU Pat McManus
y mct@praxis.co.uk Martyn Thomas
y meb4593@icdfs.boeing.com Michael Bain
y meb@UNIXHUB.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Mark Barnett
y metasoft!alan@uunet.UU.NET
y mgm@royko.Chicago.COM Marty Masters
y Michael_Vaughn@crispy.carb.il.us Michael Vaughn
y milgram@eng.umd.edu Judah Milgram
y miller@b-mrda.boeing.com Mark Miller
y miller@hmrs11.wg3.waii.com Griff Miller X7114
y mjt@sam.ca.boeing.com Jim Tallant
y mmt@redbrick.com Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS
y mox@vpnet.chi.il.us William Moxley
y mujtaba@goose.stanford.edu "Syed Aon Mujtaba"
y newton@cs.utexas.edu Peter Newton
y nick@statistics-service.scot-agric-res-i Nick Wales
y Nigel.Allen@lambada.oit.unc.edu
y nigel@modcomp.com Nigel Gamble
y oneel@arupa.gsfc.nasa.gov Bruce Oneel
y pab@po.CWRU.Edu Pete Babic
y padraig@slab.pr.erau.edu Padraig Houlahan
y palmer@icat.larc.nasa.gov Michael T. Palmer
y parabosc@eclipse.Stanford.EDU Stefano Paraboschi
y pas@cc.gatech.edu Paulo Santos
y pauln@ihlpl.att.com
y PAVER@MAXIMILLION.MCC.COM Bob Paver
y PCP$1280@selu.edu
y pedregal%unreal@cs.umass.edu
y pereckas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Michael Pereckas
y pete@frosty.rational.com Pete Coe
y PHG$1321@selu.edu
y Phil.Nickerson@gsi.fr
y philsuth@mycroft.dialix.oz.au Phil Sutherland
y PLAUT@sc2a.unige.ch Olivier PLAUT
y pm@cs.city.ac.uk Pete Mellor
y pmc@merit.edu
y pshuang@Athena.MIT.EDU
y psm@blacktip.cs.indiana.edu "Paul S. Miner"
y PSOC1285@selu.edu
y pw@cacs.usl.edu Pirawat Watanapongse
y RANKIN%KANGA@vx.cis.umn.edu James Rankin
y raveling@kestrel.Unify.Com Paul Raveling
y rdd Robert Dorsett
y rmiller@i88.isc.com Richard J. Miller
y ROB@AUTOCTRL.RUG.AC.BE "Rob A. Vingerhoeds / University of
y robg@apple.com
y ruman@maemaster.eng.uci.edu ruman
y S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU Glenn Radinsky (S05152@doc.flc.color
y shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Mary Shafer
y silverm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com Jeff Silverman
y skyline!gk Gary Kremen
y spagiola@FRI-nxt-Pagiola.Stanford.EDU Stefano Pagiola
y stack@translab.its.uci.edu Robert Stack
y stephen@boeing.com Stephen L Nicoud
y stevep@cup.portal.com
y Steve_Smith@kcbbs.gen.nz Steve Smith
y thomas@wisdom.weizmann.ac.il Netter Thomas
y tlw7737@aw2.fsl.ca.boeing.com "Thomas L. Webber"
y tmadam@ecr.mu.oz.au Timothy_Mclean ADAM
y tom@math.ufl.edu
y tom@math.ufl.edu
y tomm@voodoo.boeing.com Tom Mackey
y tucusito@kokuki.kuaero.kyoto-u.ac.jp
y vaivads@gandalf.ca Vic Vaivads
y VICTOR@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU
y wagner@methusalix.kph.uni-mainz.de Axel Wagner
y watkins@hsi.com Carl Watkins
y watson@win.tue.nl Bruce Watson
y weik@PrakInf.TH-Ilmenau.DE
y weiss@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Michael Weiss
y werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu Werner Uhrig
y wloo@eng.umd.edu Weekhuan Loo
y woodhams@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Michael Woodhams
y XCON1638@selu.edu
y zs@cs.mu.OZ.AU Zoltan Somogyi
From rdippold@qualcomm.com (RonDippold) Tue Jun 14 16:55:47 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.aeronautics,rec.aviation.simulators,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim,sci.engr,sci.engr.control,comp.simulation,sci.military,sci.aeronautics.airliners
Subject: 2nd CFV: sci.aeronautics.simulation moderated
Supersedes: <sci.aeronautics.simulation-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 14 Jun 1994 16:46:04 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 97
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net, military@law7.daytonoh.ncr.com,
kls@ohare.Chicago.COM, rdd@netcom.com
Expires: 30 Jun 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <sci.aeronautics.simulation-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
References: <sci.aeronautics.simulation-RFD1@uunet.uu.net> <sci.aeronautics.simulation-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold Voting Alias)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5213 news.groups:106290 sci.aeronautics:7222 rec.aviation.simulators:5491 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim:19088 sci.engr:9530 sci.engr.control:2363 comp.simulation:1081 sci.military:38016 sci.aeronautics.airliners:1551
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group sci.aeronautics.simulation
Newsgroups line:
sci.aeronautics.simulation Aerospace simulation technology. (Moderated)
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 29 Jun 1994.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact rdippold@qualcomm.com. For questions about the
proposed group contact Robert Dorsett <rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu>.
CHARTER
A moderated discussion group dealing with the implementation of flight and
systems models on computers. This includes, but is not restricted to:
- the definition of such models
- acquisition and modeling of flight parameters
- design and implementation of onboard systems models
- design and implementation of powerplant models
- standardization of commonly required data, such as flight
parameter databases, navaid databases, etc.
- design of cab-based implementations of flight simulators
The newsgroup will be moderated by Robert Dorsett, rdd@netcom.com.
The contact address will be aero-simulation@rascal.ics.utexas.edu,
requests to aero-simulation-request@rascal.ics.utexas.edu.
Notes
-----
There is a close relationship between this group and sci.aeronautics:
however, simulation requires more than simply implementing physical
equations, and this group will strive to address the specific issues
that implementors must face. The group is offered as moderated to
keep it on track, and to try to avoid thread mutation into topics that
might belong on other groups. It should also help stop commercial
direct-marketers, who post to inappropriate groups, selling everything
>from hand cream to visa applications.
I will work in concert with the moderators of sci.aeronautics (Mary
Shafer) and sci.aeronautics.airliners (Karl Swartz) to control the
topical focus of relevant articles.
What the group is not about
---------------------------
- Generic simulation issues (handled by comp.simulation)
- Validating games (rec.aviation.simulators, comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim)
- Using flight games
History of the proposal
-----------------------
The RFD was issued in early February, after the moderator of
sci.aeronautics noted the high incidence of posts dealing with
simulation issues. I had also noticed a number of highly technical
queries appearing on rec.aviation.simulators, without any follow-ups.
The RFD produced a large number of very positive responses from people
active in all segments of the industry, ranging from the airframe
manufacturers to the simulator manufacturers to aerospace departments
to government researchers to game designers.
Due to a pesky phone line, the vote was delayed; after the problems
were fixed, a second RFD was issued in May, which similarly had a good
response.
HOW TO VOTE
Send MAIL to: voting@qualcomm.com
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.
Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
I vote YES on sci.aeronautics.simulation
I vote NO on sci.aeronautics.simulation
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
sci.aeronautics.simulation Bounce List - No need to revote
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