From mughal@alumni.caltech.edu Mon Oct 23 15:56:04 1995
Path: uunet!in2.uu.net!bounce-back
From: mughal@alumni.caltech.edu (Asim Mughal)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan,bit.listserv.pns-l
Subject: RFD: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 23 Oct 1995 19:48:58 -0000
Organization: .
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Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7745 news.groups:171154 soc.culture.pakistan:113524 bit.listserv.pns-l:202
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.info
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.linguistics
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.overseas
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports
This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for reorganizing
soc.culture.pakistan. It creates soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy. This
is not call for votes. Please don't send votes at this time.
NEWSGROUP LINES:
soc.culture.pakistan.education Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.info Info & events related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.linguistics Pakistani languages & literature.
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.overseas Overseas Pakistanis.
soc.culture.pakistan.politics Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports Sports in Pakistan.
RATIONALE: all groups
The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.
The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily. It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup. Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon specific topics
of discussion.
The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subsgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture. This provides
medium to express and share ideas, in addition learn from others
experiences & knowledge.
The highlights of this proposal are as follows, please note the
built-in flexibility in this Request for Discussion (RFD) before a
Call for Votes (CFV) is issued.
1. The current unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan remains
untouched.
2. New newsgroups under soc.culture.pakistan.* hierarchy are created.
3. The proposal is open ended. That is, further newsgroups may be added
and/or current ones deleted before the Call for Votes (CFV).
4. Each proposed newsgroup will be voted on individual basis.
5. Voting will be conducted by Usenet Volunteer Vote-Takers (UVV) Group.
MODERATION POLICIES:
The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators. The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.
The moderation is solely for 1. keeping the discussion relevant to
the topics 2. Keeping personal comments out. No test, commercial or
anonymous postings will be accepted. It is further assumed the
postings are legible & in standard usenet format (80 characters in
length, less than 50% quoted material etc).
The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.
Additional moderators may be added by unanimous vote of active
moderators.
Facilitators:
Advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising moderators and
active in discussing moderation issues. Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education
A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Pakistan is a fast developing nation. Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically upto the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Moderator: Moin Ansari
Moderator: Fazia Begum
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani
Moderator: Ihsan Aslam
Moderator: [Commitment has not been received]
Moderator: The person responsible for technical aspects
i.e. Maintaining submission addresses etc
Currently moderators are reachable at: paknet@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Submission Address: In the process of being setup
END MODERATOR INFO.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history
A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history
The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till
present. Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious
& in-depth discussions.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history
Moderator: Moin Ansari
Moderator: Fazia Begum
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani
Moderator: Ihsan Aslam
Moderator: [Commitment has not been received]
Moderator: The person responsible for technical aspects
i.e. Maintaining submission addresses etc
Currently moderators are reachable at: paknet@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Submission Address: In the process of being setup
END MODERATOR INFO.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.info
A forum for posting info on Pakistan & announcement of cultural events
related to Pakistan.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.info
This newsgroup will be a vital resources for info on Pakistan,
National holidays, Events organized by Pakistani communities
world-wide will be posted here. This in essence, will be the focal
point for everyone, including non-Pakistanis interested in knowing
when and where events related to Pakistan are taking place.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.linguistics
For discussions on Pakistani languages, including, Urdu, Sindhi,
Baluchi, Punjabi, Pashto, Syraiki. Also for sharing & coordinating
work on text editors for Pakistani languages.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.linguistics
Pakistan is a multi-ethnic within itself. Each province has its own
culture, heritage & languages. National language Urdu is spoken &
understood by most Pakistanis and is the language of
communication. This newsgroup to discuss prose, poetry + ghazals. Also
to include discussion on works of poets, writers & history for all the
languages, including but not limited to: Urdu, Sindhi, Punjabi,
Pashto, Baluchi & Syraiki. Those who wish to work on text editors &
dictionaries for Pakistani languages are welcome to coordinate their
efforts in this newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome. The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan. This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
Moderator: Moin Ansari
Moderator: Fazia Begum
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani
Moderator: Ihsan Aslam
Moderator: [Commitment has not been received]
Moderator: The person responsible for technical aspects
i.e. Maintaining submission addresses etc
Currently moderators are reachable at: paknet@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Submission Address: In the process of being setup
END MODERATOR INFO.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.overseas
This will be a forum for discussing issues related only to Pakistanis
living abroad. This will also serve as a forum to distribute important
which is of concern overseas Pakistanis.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.overseas
This newsgroup is for discussion & sharing of information among
Pakistanis living aboard. The Goverment of Pakistan has a special
committee to provide info & help to overseas Pakistanis. The info and
events specific to overseas Pakistan will be posted and issues related
to them discussed in this newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary. The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor. The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively. This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Vivid discussions on religious beliefs, the implementation Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths. Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g. Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
Pakistan hold world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed. Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This RFD has been prepared in accordance with the requirements
contained in USENET guidelines for creation of new
newsgroups. Discussion of RFD will continue for at least 22 days from
the date it appears on news.groups and news.announce.newgroups. The
discussion will take place on news.groups, which is a group dedicated
to the discussion of newgroups, and anyone is encouraged to
participate. A second RFD will be posted if needed. At the end of
discussion period, the CFV will be issued and the vote conducted by a
neutral third party, the Usenet Volunteer Votetakes (UVV).
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD will be cross posted to:
news.announce.newsgroups, news.groups, soc.culture.pakistan,
bit.listserv.pns-l
Please direct all discussion to news.groups. Any questions about this
proposal may be sent to: paknet@gnu.ai.mit.edu
CREDITS:
This reorganization was discussed by Pakistan Networking Committee
(paknet@gnu.ai.mit.edu). The following is a result of the discussions
held in 1994 & 1995.
Formatting done by using Nebula software with permission from Pakistan
News Service (PNS).
From mughal@alumni.caltech.edu Mon Nov 20 20:06:44 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: mughal@alumni.caltech.edu (Asim Mughal)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RFD: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 21 Nov 1995 01:06:25 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 478
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <816915970.18355@uunet.uu.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7903 news.groups:175120 soc.culture.pakistan:118546
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports
This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for reorganizing
soc.culture.pakistan. It creates soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy. This
is not call for votes. Please don't send votes at this time.
NEWSGROUP LINES:
soc.culture.pakistan.education Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports Sports in Pakistan.
RATIONALE: all groups
The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.
The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily. It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup. Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon specific topics
of discussion.
In addition to the current traffic of over 200+ messages per day. In the
next few months, more usenet readers are coming on-line from Pakistan,
estimated 100,000+.
The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers. All of them arrived
at the conclusion to split the newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan.
The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subsgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture. This provides
medium to express and share ideas, in addition learn from others
experiences & knowledge.
The highlights of this proposal are as follows, please note the
built-in flexibility in this Request for Discussion (RFD) before a
Call for Votes (CFV) is issued.
HIGHLIGHTS: - soc.culture.pakistan NO CHANGE
- Add 3 moderated newsgroups:
soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.paksitan.moderated
- Add 3 unmoderated newsgroups:
soc.culture.pakistan.politics
soc.culture.pakistan.religion
soc.culture.pakistan.sports
- Each proposed newsgroup is voted upon individually.
The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subsgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.
VOTING: To be held by Usenet Volunteer Vote-takers (UVV).
MODERATION POLICIES: For all three moderated newsgroups:
Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators. The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.
The moderation will not be censorship, it is solely for:
1. keeping the discussion relevant to the topics
2. Keeping personal comments out.
3. keeping flame/flamebaits out
4. keeping discussion civilized.
Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for
postings, that is,
i) No test messages
ii) No commercial messages
iii) No anonymous postings
iv) Postings to be legible
v) Postings to be in proper format: (not more than
80 characters per line)
vi) Less than 50% quote text.
The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months. Additional moderators may be added by
unanimous vote of active moderators.
Changes in moderation team & calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.
FACILITATORS: For all three moderated newsgroups:
Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
Facilitators are advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising
moderators and active in discussing moderation issues. Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.
TECHNICAL MODERATOR: For proposed moderated newsgroups. Solely responsible
for technical aspects, including maintaining submission addresses, updating
moderators' lists, posting announcements on technical issues. Does not
review/post regular incoming articles.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education
A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.
There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML & PNS-L. EML alone has 100 letters per week. The audience
& participation will be enhanced by leaps & bounds with a newsgroup on
this subject. The moderation is simply intended for keeping the discussion
relevant. Most of those participating are educators & professors or
professionals. The subject & its implications, implementations & interpretations
are vast enough to justify a separate noise free newsgroup all by itself.
The members on the mailing lists have said they would participate in this
newsgroup.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Pakistan is a fast developing nation. Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically upto the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.
Moderation Policy:
The moderation will not be censorship, it is solely for:
1. keeping the discussion relevant to the topics
2. Keeping personal comments out.
3. keeping flame/flamebaits out
4. keeping discussion civilized.
Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for
postings, that is,
i) No test messages
ii) No commercial messages
iii) No anonymous postings
iv) Postings to be legible
v) Postings to be in proper format: (not more than
80 characters per line)
vi) Less than 50% quote text.
The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months. Additional moderators may be added by
unanimous vote of active moderators.
Changes in moderation team & calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Facilitator: ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu (Ahmad Mumtaz)
Facilitator: tsyedmoh@cisco.com (Tanwir Syed)
Facilitator: raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu (Raghib Mohammad)
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
Submission Address: scpe@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scpe-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Moderators & Facilitators: scpe-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history
A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.
This newsgroup is of academic nature. Most participants are expected to be
historians and scholars. The history of Pakistan has been one of the popular
topic on current soc.culture.pakistan. Differing interpretations, research
and analysis of events & prominent personalities which contributed in any
towards the creation of Pakistan do not have an appropriate existing
newsgroup. This newsgroup will fill in the big gap.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history
The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till present.
Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious &
in-depth discussions.
Moderation Policy:
The moderation will not be censorship, it is solely for:
1. keeping the discussion relevant to the topics
2. Keeping personal comments out.
3. keeping flame/flamebaits out
4. keeping discussion civilized.
Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for
postings, that is,
i) No test messages
ii) No commercial messages
iii) No anonymous postings
iv) Postings to be legible
v) Postings to be in proper format: (not more than
80 characters per line)
vi) Less than 50% quote text.
The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months. Additional moderators may be added by
unanimous vote of active moderators.
Changes in moderation team & calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Facilitator: ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu (Ahmad Mumtaz)
Facilitator: tsyedmoh@cisco.com (Tanwir Syed)
Facilitator: raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu (Raghib Mohammad)
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
Submission Address: scph@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scph-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Moderators & Facilitators: scph-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings. The newsgroup
soc.culture.pakistan is plagued with too much noise & irrelevant postings.
It is impossible to initiate, engage in or carryon any meaningful
discussion. This newsgroup will bring create the long awaited alternative
for the readers of newsgroup. Currently daily average in soc.culture.pakistan
is 200+.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome. The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan. This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.
Moderation Policy:
The moderation will not be censorship, it is solely for:
1. keeping the discussion relevant to the topics
2. Keeping personal comments out.
3. keeping flame/flamebaits out
4. keeping discussion civilized.
Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for
postings, that is,
i) No test messages
ii) No commercial messages
iii) No anonymous postings
iv) Postings to be legible
v) Postings to be in proper format: (not more than
80 characters per line)
vi) Less than 50% quote text.
The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months. Additional moderators may be added by
unanimous vote of active moderators.
Changes in moderation team & calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Facilitator: ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu (Ahmad Mumtaz)
Facilitator: tsyedmoh@cisco.com (Tanwir Syed)
Facilitator: raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu (Raghib Mohammad)
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
Submission Address: scpm@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scpm-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Moderators & Facilitators: scpm-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.
Politics is a sensitive issue. Any attempt to moderate a politics newsgroup
can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a certain viewpoint.
The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no one has any basis to
think the moderators will censor them out or their favorite political party.
Not to mention, politics is one of the most debated topic on the current
soc.culture.pakistan, hence the suggestion for a separate newsgroup on
this topic.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary. The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor. The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively. This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Vivid discussions on religious beliefs, the implementation Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.
Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religous discussions are
not just on 'Islam' if they were, then the other three *.religion.islam
newsgroups would be more than enough. The other religions in Pakistan are:
Christianity, Hindism, Sikhs, Parsi & many more. The minority religions
have their communities, school systems, reserved seats in the parliament.
Unfortunately, minorities religious issues, and especially, religious issues
of Pakistanis while coexistence & daily interactions with each others are
commonly overshadowed by the stereotypical assumptions of all Pakistanis
as Muslims. This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on usenet in general. The set of
issues & discussions are very much unique to Pakistan. Despite the fact
that sri,ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam does take place on SCP.
The reason, the discussions are in context of Pakistani culture. The
scp.religion, is for discussion of all religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.
In addition, the newsgroup gives voice to religious minorities. The
religous discussion traffic clearly deserves a separate newsgroup of its own.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths. Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g. Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.
Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi, Boxing,
Tennis, swimming, Football etc. The proposal is for one single newsgroup to
discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions of local talents, summer camps,
university camps, local HBL-11 vs UBL-11 matchs for instant are all directly
related to Pakistan. None of them make sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan
array of newsgroups.
Sports being one of the most favorite topic of discussion on soc.culture.pakistan
it definitely needs a separate newsgroup under the hierarchy.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
Pakistan hold world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed. Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This RFD has been prepared in accordance with the requirements
contained in USENET guidelines for creation of new newsgroups. Discussion
of RFD will continue for at least 22 days from the date it appears on
news.groups and news.announce.newgroups. The discussion will take place
on news.groups, which is a group dedicated to the discussion of newgroups,
and anyone is encouraged to participate. This is the second RFD on this
reorganization. CFV will not be issued for at least next 7 days. At the
end of discussion period, the CFV will be issued and the vote conducted
by a neutral third party, the Usenet Volunteer Votetakes (UVV).
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD will be cross posted to:
news.announce.newsgroups,
news.groups,
soc.culture.pakistan, &
bit.listserv.pns-l
Please direct all discussion to news.groups. Any questions about this
proposal may be sent to: paknet@gnu.ai.mit.edu
CREDITS:
This reorganization was discussed by Pakistan Networking Committee
<paknet@gnu.ai.mit.edu>. The following is a result of the discussions
held in 1994 & 1995.
From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Tue Dec 12 14:42:57 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan,bit.listserv.pns-l
Subject: CFV: soc.culture.pakistan-reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 12 Dec 1995 19:42:50 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 401
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 3 Jan 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <12493.55830.604004@uunet.uu.net>
References: <816915970.18355@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7996 news.groups:178694 soc.culture.pakistan:122141 bit.listserv.pns-l:219
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports
Newsgroups lines:
soc.culture.pakistan.education Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports Sports in Pakistan.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 2 Jan 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
Mentor: Richard Miller <rick@tmc.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE: all groups
The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.
The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily. It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup. Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon most common
threads discussed.
In addition to the current traffic of over 200+ messages per day. In the
next few months, more Usenet readers are coming on-line from Pakistan,
estimated 100,000+.
The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers.
Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits The moderation
will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be censorship. The current
moderators volunteers
Highlights: - soc.culture.pakistan NO CHANGE
- Add 3 moderated newsgroups:
soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
- Add 3 unmoderated newsgroups:
soc.culture.pakistan.politics
soc.culture.pakistan.religion
soc.culture.pakistan.sports
- Each proposed newsgroup is voted upon individually.
The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education
A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.
There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML & PNS-L. EML alone has 100 letters per week. The audience
& participation will be enhanced by leaps & bounds with a newsgroup on
this subject. The moderation is simply intended for keeping the discussion
relevant. Most of those participating are educators & professors or
professionals. The subject & its implications, implementations &
interpretations are vast enough to justify a separate noise free
newsgroup all by itself.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history
A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.
If we do not create a newsgroup on history, our history will not get the
exposure it deserves. How will scholars from Berkeley (where a new chair
on Pakistan studies has been created) be able to GLEAN information and do
research on our nation? If we do not provide a forum to COUNTER our points on
our history, How do we expect Americans and other nationalities to put up
with the noise on the regular newsgroup?
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.
Politics is a sensitive issue. Any attempt to moderate a politics newsgroup
can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a certain viewpoint.
The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no one has any basis to
think the moderators will censor them out or their favorite political party.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Vivid discussions on religious beliefs, the implementation Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.
Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious discussions are
not just on 'Islam' if they were, then the other three *.religion.islam
newsgroups would be more than enough. The other religions in Pakistan are:
Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi & many more. The minority religions
have their communities, school systems, reserved seats in the parliament.
Unfortunately, minorities religious issues, and especially, religious issues
of Pakistanis while coexistence & daily interactions with each others are
commonly overshadowed by the stereotypical assumptions of all Pakistanis
as Muslims. This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on Usenet in general. The set of
issues & discussions are very much unique to Pakistan. Despite the fact
that sri,ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam does take place on SCP.
The reason, the discussions are in context of Pakistani culture. The
scp.religion, is for discussion of all religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.
In addition, the newsgroup gives voice to religious minorities.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.
Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi,
Boxing, Tennis, swimming, Football etc. The proposal is for one single
newsgroup to discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions of local
talents, summer camps, university camps, local HBL-11 vs UBL-11 matches
for instant are all directly related to Pakistan. None of them make
sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan array of newsgroups.
CHARTER: all groups
This is a reorganization for newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan, creating
soc.culture.pakistan.* hierarchy.
Moderation policies for all three moderated newsgroups:
Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators. The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.
The moderation is solely for 1. keeping the discussion relevant to
the topics 2. Keeping personal comments out. No test, commercial or
anonymous postings will be accepted. It is further assumed the
postings are legible & in standard Usenet format (80 characters in
length, less than 50% quoted material etc).
The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.
Additional moderators may be added by unanimous vote of active
moderators.
= ADDITIONS from RFD: Moderators reserve the right to amend the charter
after unanimously agreement. All rejection notices will be
mailed to the sender notifying the reason with cc: copies to
all active moderators & facilitators, no exceptions.
Facilitators for all three moderated newsgroups:
Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
Advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising moderators and
active in discussing moderation issues. Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Pakistan is a fast developing nation. Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically up to the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)
Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu>
Facilitator: Syeda Saba Bokhari <dresden@wam.umd.edu>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <tsyedmoh@cisco.com>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Facilitator: Rafay Khan <rafay@altair.com>
Article submission address: scpe@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Administrative contact address: scpe-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scpe-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history
The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till
present. Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious
& in-depth discussions.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)
Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu>
Facilitator: Syeda Saba Bokhari <dresden@wam.umd.edu>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <tsyedmoh@cisco.com>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Facilitator: Rafay Khan <rafay@altair.com>
Article submission address: scph@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Administrative contact address: scph-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scph-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome. The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan. This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)
Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu>
Facilitator: Syeda Saba Bokhari <dresden@wam.umd.edu>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <tsyedmoh@cisco.com>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Facilitator: Rafay Khan <rafay@altair.com>
Article submission address: scpm@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Administrative contact address: scpm-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scpm-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary. The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor. The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively. This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths. Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g. Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
Pakistan holds world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed. Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE:
Vote counting is automated. Follow the directions!
You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:
usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu
Do not assume that just replying to this message will work. Check the
address before you mail your vote. Use the ballot form and indicate your
YES or NO vote on each group that you wish to vote on. Please, mail only
the ballot form. Delete everything above and below the -=-=-=- lines.
NAMES ARE REQUIRED. Please indicate your name on the line provided.
That is your NAME, not your address. :-)
[ yes ] rec.foo (sample yes vote)
[ no ] rec.bar (sample no vote)
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
soc.culture.pakistan reorg Ballot <SCP-0001> (Don't remove this marker)
Voter name:
If you do not give a real name your vote may be rejected.
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.education
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.history
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.politics
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.religion
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.sports
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid
votes for the total count.
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:
Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes
must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered to be anonymous votes.
Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will
be published in the final voting results post.
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the general interest level
among potential readers of a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted
to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, please ask the votetaker.
--
Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us> | Running UseVote 3.
votes to: <usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu> | Powered by FreeBSD
From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Thu Dec 28 00:22:49 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,bit.listserv.pns-l,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.culture.pakistan-reorganization
Supersedes: <12493.55830.604004@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 28 Dec 1995 05:22:45 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 392
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 3 Jan 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <820128097.9915@uunet.uu.net>
References: <816915970.18355@uunet.uu.net> <12493.55830.604004@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8048 news.groups:181264 bit.listserv.pns-l:225 soc.culture.pakistan:124530
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports
Newsgroups lines:
soc.culture.pakistan.education Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports Sports in Pakistan.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 2 Jan 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
Mentor: Richard Miller <rick@tmc.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE: all groups
The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.
The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily. It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup. Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon most common
threads discussed.
In addition to the current traffic of over 200+ messages per day. In the
next few months, more Usenet readers are coming on-line from Pakistan,
estimated 100,000+.
The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers.
Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits The moderation
will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be censorship. The current
moderators volunteers
Highlights: - soc.culture.pakistan NO CHANGE
- Add 3 moderated newsgroups:
soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
- Add 3 unmoderated newsgroups:
soc.culture.pakistan.politics
soc.culture.pakistan.religion
soc.culture.pakistan.sports
- Each proposed newsgroup is voted upon individually.
The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education
A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.
There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML & PNS-L. EML alone has 100 letters per week. The audience
& participation will be enhanced by leaps & bounds with a newsgroup on
this subject. The moderation is simply intended for keeping the discussion
relevant. Most of those participating are educators & professors or
professionals. The subject & its implications, implementations &
interpretations are vast enough to justify a separate noise free
newsgroup all by itself.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history
A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.
If we do not create a newsgroup on history, our history will not get the
exposure it deserves. How will scholars from Berkeley (where a new chair
on Pakistan studies has been created) be able to GLEAN information and do
research on our nation? If we do not provide a forum to COUNTER our points on
our history, How do we expect Americans and other nationalities to put up
with the noise on the regular newsgroup?
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.
Politics is a sensitive issue. Any attempt to moderate a politics newsgroup
can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a certain viewpoint.
The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no one has any basis to
think the moderators will censor them out or their favorite political party.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Vivid discussions on religious beliefs, the implementation Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.
Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious discussions are
not just on 'Islam' if they were, then the other three *.religion.islam
newsgroups would be more than enough. The other religions in Pakistan are:
Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi & many more. The minority religions
have their communities, school systems, reserved seats in the parliament.
Unfortunately, minorities religious issues, and especially, religious issues
of Pakistanis while coexistence & daily interactions with each others are
commonly overshadowed by the stereotypical assumptions of all Pakistanis
as Muslims. This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on Usenet in general. The set of
issues & discussions are very much unique to Pakistan. Despite the fact
that sri,ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam does take place on SCP.
The reason, the discussions are in context of Pakistani culture. The
scp.religion, is for discussion of all religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.
In addition, the newsgroup gives voice to religious minorities.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.
Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi,
Boxing, Tennis, swimming, Football etc. The proposal is for one single
newsgroup to discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions of local
talents, summer camps, university camps, local HBL-11 vs UBL-11 matches
for instant are all directly related to Pakistan. None of them make
sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan array of newsgroups.
CHARTER: all groups
This is a reorganization for newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan, creating
soc.culture.pakistan.* hierarchy.
Moderation policies for all three moderated newsgroups:
Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators. The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.
The moderation is solely for 1. keeping the discussion relevant to
the topics 2. Keeping personal comments out. No test, commercial or
anonymous postings will be accepted. It is further assumed the
postings are legible & in standard Usenet format (80 characters in
length, less than 50% quoted material etc).
The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.
Additional moderators may be added by unanimous vote of active
moderators.
= ADDITIONS from RFD: Moderators reserve the right to amend the charter
after unanimously agreement. All rejection notices will be
mailed to the sender notifying the reason with cc: copies to
all active moderators & facilitators, no exceptions.
Facilitators for all three moderated newsgroups:
Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
Advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising moderators and
active in discussing moderation issues. Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Pakistan is a fast developing nation. Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically up to the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)
Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <tsyedmoh@cisco.com>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Article submission address: scpe@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Administrative contact address: scpe-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scpe-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history
The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till
present. Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious
& in-depth discussions.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)
Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <tsyedmoh@cisco.com>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Article submission address: scph@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Administrative contact address: scph-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scph-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome. The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan. This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)
Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <tsyedmoh@cisco.com>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Article submission address: scpm@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Administrative contact address: scpm-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scpm-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary. The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor. The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively. This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths. Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g. Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
Pakistan holds world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed. Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE:
Vote counting is automated. Follow the directions!
You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:
usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu
Do not assume that just replying to this message will work. Check the
address before you mail your vote. Use the ballot form and indicate your
YES or NO vote on each group that you wish to vote on. Please, mail only
the ballot form. Delete everything above and below the -=-=-=- lines.
NAMES ARE REQUIRED. Please indicate your name on the line provided.
That is your NAME, not your address. :-)
[ yes ] rec.foo (sample yes vote)
[ no ] rec.bar (sample no vote)
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
soc.culture.pakistan reorg Ballot <SCP-0002> (Don't remove this marker)
Voter name:
If you do not give a real name your vote may be rejected.
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.education
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.history
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.politics
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.religion
[ ] soc.culture.pakistan.sports
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid
votes for the total count.
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:
Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes
must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered to be anonymous votes.
Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will
be published in the final voting results post.
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the general interest level
among potential readers of a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted
to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, please ask the votetaker.
From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Thu Feb 15 23:58:45 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,bit.listserv.pns-l,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RESULT: soc.culture.pakistan-reorganization all groups pass
Supersedes: <820128097.9915@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 15 Feb 1996 23:58:42 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 740
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <824446710.11096@uunet.uu.net>
References: <816915970.18355@uunet.uu.net> <12493.55830.604004@uunet.uu.net> <820128097.9915@uunet.uu.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8257 news.groups:189607 bit.listserv.pns-l:233 soc.culture.pakistan:132385
RESULT
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education passes 231:57
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history passes 229:60
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated passes 230:58
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics passes 249:41
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion passes 250:40
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports passes 246:41
Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
231 57 | Yes Yes | Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.education
229 60 | Yes Yes | Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.history
230 58 | Yes Yes | Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
249 41 | Yes Yes | Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.politics
250 40 | Yes Yes | Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.religion
246 41 | Yes Yes | Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.sports
In this votetaker's opinion, serious irregularities began before this
vote even started when the proponent demanded that the votetaker should
not be allowed to comment on the results of the vote. Considerable
effort was spent stuffing the ballot box during this vote. All parties
querried about this, to include system administrators of sites where
ballots were quite obviously machine generated, deny any knowledge of,
or participation in any such behavior. Therefore, the whole voting
list is presented here for public inspection.
Newsgroups lines:
soc.culture.pakistan.education Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports Sports in Pakistan.
Votes closed on 23:59:59 UTC, 2 Jan 1996.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
Mentor: Richard Miller <rick@tmc.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE: all groups
The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.
The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily. It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup. Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon most common
threads discussed.
In addition to the current traffic of over 200+ messages per day. In the
next few months, more Usenet readers are coming on-line from Pakistan,
estimated 100,000+.
The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers.
Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits The moderation
will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be censorship. The current
moderators volunteers
Highlights: - soc.culture.pakistan NO CHANGE
- Add 3 moderated newsgroups:
soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
- Add 3 unmoderated newsgroups:
soc.culture.pakistan.politics
soc.culture.pakistan.religion
soc.culture.pakistan.sports
- Each proposed newsgroup is voted upon individually.
The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education
A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.
There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML & PNS-L. EML alone has 100 letters per week. The audience
& participation will be enhanced by leaps & bounds with a newsgroup on
this subject. The moderation is simply intended for keeping the discussion
relevant. Most of those participating are educators & professors or
professionals. The subject & its implications, implementations &
interpretations are vast enough to justify a separate noise free
newsgroup all by itself.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history
A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.
If we do not create a newsgroup on history, our history will not get the
exposure it deserves. How will scholars from Berkeley (where a new chair
on Pakistan studies has been created) be able to GLEAN information and do
research on our nation? If we do not provide a forum to COUNTER our points on
our history, How do we expect Americans and other nationalities to put up
with the noise on the regular newsgroup?
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.
Politics is a sensitive issue. Any attempt to moderate a politics newsgroup
can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a certain viewpoint.
The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no one has any basis to
think the moderators will censor them out or their favorite political party.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Vivid discussions on religious beliefs, the implementation Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.
Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious discussions are
not just on 'Islam' if they were, then the other three *.religion.islam
newsgroups would be more than enough. The other religions in Pakistan are:
Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi & many more. The minority religions
have their communities, school systems, reserved seats in the parliament.
Unfortunately, minorities religious issues, and especially, religious issues
of Pakistanis while coexistence & daily interactions with each others are
commonly overshadowed by the stereotypical assumptions of all Pakistanis
as Muslims. This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on Usenet in general. The set of
issues & discussions are very much unique to Pakistan. Despite the fact
that sri,ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam does take place on SCP.
The reason, the discussions are in context of Pakistani culture. The
scp.religion, is for discussion of all religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.
In addition, the newsgroup gives voice to religious minorities.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.
Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi,
Boxing, Tennis, swimming, Football etc. The proposal is for one single
newsgroup to discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions of local
talents, summer camps, university camps, local HBL-11 vs UBL-11 matches
for instant are all directly related to Pakistan. None of them make
sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan array of newsgroups.
CHARTER: all groups
This is a reorganization for newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan, creating
soc.culture.pakistan.* hierarchy.
Moderation policies for all three moderated newsgroups:
Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators. The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.
The moderation is solely for 1. keeping the discussion relevant to
the topics 2. Keeping personal comments out. No test, commercial or
anonymous postings will be accepted. It is further assumed the
postings are legible & in standard Usenet format (80 characters in
length, less than 50% quoted material etc).
The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.
Additional moderators may be added by unanimous vote of active
moderators.
= ADDITIONS from RFD: Moderators reserve the right to amend the charter
after unanimously agreement. All rejection notices will be
mailed to the sender notifying the reason with cc: copies to
all active moderators & facilitators, no exceptions.
Facilitators for all three moderated newsgroups:
Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
soc.culture.pakistan.history
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
Advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising moderators and
active in discussing moderation issues. Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Pakistan is a fast developing nation. Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically up to the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)
Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <tsyedmoh@cisco.com>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Article submission address: scpe@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Administrative contact address: scpe-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scpe-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history
The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till
present. Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious
& in-depth discussions.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)
Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <tsyedmoh@cisco.com>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Article submission address: scph@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Administrative contact address: scph-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scph-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome. The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan. This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
Moderator: Moin Ansari <MoinA@aol.com>
Moderator: Fazia Begum Rizvi <escco@tree.egr.uh.edu>
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi <Sohail@aol.com>
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani <mariam@skypoint.com>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)
Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <tsyedmoh@cisco.com>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Article submission address: scpm@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Administrative contact address: scpm-admin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All Moderators: scpm-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary. The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor. The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively. This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths. Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g. Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports
Pakistan holds world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed. Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.
END CHARTER.
soc.culture.pakistan reorg Final Voter list
soc.culture.pakistan.sports --------+
soc.culture.pakistan.religion -------+|
soc.culture.pakistan.politics ------+||
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated -----+|||
soc.culture.pakistan.history ----+||||
soc.culture.pakistan.education ---+|||||
||||||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AQAY1@mfs03.cc.monash.edu.au ASMA QAYUM NNNYYY
s.khan@uws.EDU.AU Shahed Anwer Khan YYYYYY
tsadiq@freenet.calgary.ab.ca Tanvir Sadiq NNNYNN
aahmed@bnr.ca Asim Ahmed YYYYYY
misbah@bnr.ca Misbah Islam YYYYYY
shakoor@bnr.ca Shakoor Dean NNNYYY
as94bd@SANDCASTLE.COSC.BROCKU.CA Ayaz Somjee NNNNNN
syntron@engsoc.carleton.ca Aroosh R. Elahi YYYYYY
kmitchel@direct.ca Kevin Mitchell NNNNNN
kmitchel@direct.ca Kevin Mitchell NNNNNN
htana@ee.mcgill.ca Hazem Nasereddin YYYYYY
ahmed@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA Khursheed Ahmed YYYYYY
bv694@freenet.toronto.on.ca Imran Toorawa NNNYYY
fkharadi@tuns.ca Faisal Kharadi YYYYYY
upal@cs.ualberta.ca Afzal Upal YYYYYY
abdullah@mech.ubc.ca Zia Abdullah YYYYYY
e0fdtfyo@credit.erin.utoronto.ca Faisal Raja NNNYYY
e0fell4u@credit.erin.utoronto.ca Zafar Ahmed NNNYYY
e0fkq9vy@credit.erin.utoronto.ca Ahmer A. Karimuddin NNNYYY
akgoel@plg.uwaterloo.ca anil k goel NNNYYY
khan@hpl3sn03.cern.ch Rizwan Ali Khan NNNYYY
bcash@ties.itu.ch Bryan Cash YYYYYY
becher@ties.itu.ch Ernst Becher YYYYYY
callan@ties.itu.ch Neil John Callan YYYYYY
dajani@ties.itu.ch tina dajani YYYYYY
dcabrera@ties.itu.ch dalcy cabrera-rios YYYYYY
naqvi@ties.itu.ch Zahid Raza Naqvi YYYYYY
vaughn@ties.itu.ch Cameron Vaughn YYYYYY
ALEXANDRE.CAMINHA@ITU.CH Alexandre Caminha YYYYYY
ALI.GHOVANLOU@ITU.CH Ali Ghovanlou YYYYYY
ANTONIO-MARIA.NINO-CAICEDO@ITU.CH Antonio Maria Nino Caicedo YYYYYY
ASHFAQ.HUSSAIN@ITU.CH ashfaq hussain YYYYYY
ASIF-FARHAI.GILL@ITU.CH Asif Farhaj Gill YYYYYY
BAHMAN.MOBASSER@ITU.CH Bahman Mobasser YYYYYY
BANG-WON.LEE@ITU.CH Bang Won Lee YYYYYY
CALESTOUS.JUMA@ITU.CH calestous juma YYYYYY
CAMILLO.PASQUARIELLO@ITU.CH Camilo Pasquariello YYYYYY
CAMILO.PON@ITU.CH CAMILO PON YYYYYY
CARROLL.CADDEL@ITU.CH Carroll Caddel YYYYYY
CARROLL.CADDEL@ITU.CH Carroll Caddel YYYYYY
CH.JAVED@ITU.CH Ch. Javed YYYYYY
CHARLES.BABER@ITU.CH Charles Baber YYYYYY
DAE-WON.CHOI@ITU.CH dae-won choi YYYYYY
DAG.BJORNLAND@ITU.CH Dag Bjornland YYYYYY
DANIEL.ANGELINI@ITU.CH daniel angelini YYYYYY
DANIEL.BERTHOUD@ITU.CH daniel berthoud YYYYYY
DANIEL.CHENAULT@ITU.CH daniel chenault YYYYYY
DANIEL.EASTHAM@ITU.CH daniel eastham YYYYYY
DANIEL.GROSSMAN@ITU.CH daniel grossman YYYYYY
DANIEL.PIEROTTI@ITU.CH daniel pierotti YYYYYY
DANIEL.PIEROTTI@ITU.CH daniel pierotti YYYYYY
DANIEL.SCHNEIDER@ITU.CH daniel schneider YYYYYY
DANIEL.SILVER@ITU.CH daniel silver YYYYYY
DANIEL.SPIEGEL@ITU.CH daniel spiegel YYYYYY
DANIEL.WEINBERG@ITU.CH daniel weinberg YYYYYY
EDWARD.BAILEY@ITU.CH Edward Bailey YYYYYY
FELIX.DAMIBA@ITU.CH felix damiba YYYYYY
FRANCE.CAAM@ITU.CH France Caam YYYYYY
FUAD.ENVER@ITU.CH FUAD ENVER YYYYYY
GIULIANO.CAMBI@ITU.CH Giuliano Cambi YYYYYY
HAMZA.ALI@ITU.CH Hamza Ali YYYYYY
HAMZA.ALI@ITU.CH hamza ali YYYYYY
HENRI.CAMPAGNO@ITU.CH Henri Campagno YYYYYY
JAIME.QUISPE-CALLISAYA@ITU.CH jaime quispe callisaya YYYYYY
JAMES.CAFFREY@ITU.CH James Caffrey YYYYYY
JANE.DA-SILVA-PELLAUX@ITU.CH jane da-silva-pellaux YYYYYY
JEAN-DANIEL.ZOSSO@ITU.CH jean-daniel zosso YYYYYY
JOHAN.DE-BEER@ITU.CH JOHAN DE_BEER YYYYYY
JOHN.BANDARANAYAKE@ITU.CH John Bandaranayake YYYYYY
KHALID.AHMAD@ITU.CH Khalid Ahmad YYYYYY
KHALID.AHMAD@ITU.CH khalid ahmad YYYYYY
LUIS-MANUEL.PELUFFO-CANEPA@ITU.CH Luis Manuel Peluffo YYYYYY
MAHMOOD.AHMAD@ITU.CH Mahmood Ahmad YYYYYY
MATTEO.DAMBROSIO@ITU.CH matteo dambrosio YYYYYY
MAURICIO-ALBERTO.CAMPILLO-OROZCO@ITU.CH Mauricio Alberto Campillo Orozco YYYYYY
MAZWI.DANDATO@ITU.CH mazwi dandato YYYYYY
MOHAMED.YUSOFF@ITU.CH Mohamed Yusoff YYYYYY
MUHAMMAD-JAVED.IQBAL@ITU.CH Muhammad Javed Iqbal YYYYYY
NISAR.AHMED@ITU.CH Nisar Ahmed YYYYYY
ODELIN.CALATRAVA@ITU.CH Odelin Calatrava YYYYYY
SERGIO.DA-SILVA@ITU.CH sergio da-silva YYYYYY
SILVANO.CANDEO@ITU.CH Silvano Candeo YYYYYY
SVEN.CALLEBAUT@ITU.CH Sven CALLEBAUT YYYYYY
VLADO.CAMIC@ITU.CH Vlado Camic YYYYYY
syeda@actel.com Syed Ahmed YNYYYY
fhaque@aimnet.com Faisal Haque YYYYYY
aak@caess1.cae.aro.allied.com Anwer Ali Khan YYY-YY
rafay@altair.com rafay NNNNNN
Ajaybhatt@aol.com Ajay Bhatt YYYYYY
Amjad29@aol.com Amjad Ras NNNNNN
AnsMoid@aol.com Asad Khan YYYYYY
Arshadh@aol.com Arshad Hussain YYYYYY
Bilalhus@aol.com Bilal Hussain YYYYYY
Fouzian@aol.com Fouzia Naqvi YYYYYY
JZuberi@aol.com Jalal ZUBERI YYYYYY
MoinA@aol.com Moin Ansari YYYYYY
Rizwant@aol.com Rizwan Tahir YYYYYY
SaimaZ@aol.com SAIMA ZUBERI YYYYYY
ShirleyJor@aol.com Shirla Jormak YYYYYY
Sohail@aol.com Sohail Qureshi YYYYYY
Tahira5502@aol.com Tahira Mossadique YYYYYY
fkhawaja@unix.asb.com Farouk S. Khawaja YYYYYY
aftaba@gscrb.sandiegoca.attgis.com Ahmed, Aftab YYYYYY
mccomb@best.com Todd Michel McComb -N--N-
skyline@best.com John Tran YYYYYY
stainles@bga.com Dwight Brown NNNNNN
sayed@caetech.com Mohamad Khalid Seth YYYYYY
sayed@caetech.com Sayed Fayyaz Hussain YYYYYY
adil@corp.cirrus.com ADIL HAQUE YYYYYY
rpirzada@cisco.com Rafat Pirzada YYYYYY
sraza@cisco.com Syed Khalid Raza YYYYYY
zkhan@cisco.com Zulfiqar Khan YYYYYY
72132.514@compuserve.com Amardeep Singh YYYYYY
72132.514@compuserve.com Amardeep Singh YYYYYY
assad%ref.grolier.com@connix.com Mir Mohammed Assadullah YYYYYY
rahman@dynetics.com Tabassum Rahman YYYYYY
aawara@mail.erols.com Azeem Rao YYYYYY
hampton@escalade.com John Hampton YYYYYY
stevep@escalade.com steve pham YYYYYY
stick@escalade.com J. Stick YYYYYY
e3utxk@fnma.com Terrick Khan YYYYYY
jrm@globalvillag.com John R. MacWilliamson NNNNNN
KTanzeem@gnn.com Khwaja Tanzeem YYYYYY
SAKHTAR@maila.harris.com SAKHTAR YYYYYY
SAKHTAR@maila.harris.com Salman AKHTAR YYYYYY
bjv@herbison.com B.J. Herbison NNNNNN
IMALIK@LANDO.HNS.COM Imran Malik YYYYYY
nick@inferno.fc.hp.com Nick Ingegneri NNNYYY
Shahzad_Baqai@ccm.sc.intel.com Shahzad Baqai YYYYYY
siraj@Intellistor.COM Ajaz Siraj YYYYYY
paxil@interlog.com Trevor Tymchuk YYYYYY
peterm@interlog.com Peter Mentz YYYYYY
allthat@chelsea.ios.com Azam Khan YYYYYY
ssehbai@village.ios.com Faisal Shaheen YYNYYY
javaid@lexmark.com Javaid Aslam Siddiqi YYYYYY
Ed_Robertson-U2818@email.mot.com Ed Robertson YYYYYY
Moin_Ansari-U26870@email.mot.com Moinuddin Hasan Ansari YYYYYY
William_Powell-U2803@email.mot.com William Powell YYYYYY
olav@viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar NNNYYN
arifura@ix.netcom.com Arifur Arain YYYYYY
basit@ix.netcom.com Basit Hussain YYYYYY
smalltkr@ix.netcom.com Jawad Akhtar YYYYYY
syedwh@ix.netcom.com Syed W. Hussain YYYYYY
catseye@netcom.com Mark Kupferman YYNYYY
tgm@netcom.com Thomas G. McWilliams NNNNNN
waqar@netcom.com Waqar Malik YYYYYY
Rizwan.Zaidi.0147588@nt.com Rizwan Zaidi YYYYYY
feldman@ice.octet.com Alan F. Feldman NNNNNN
TJASKIEW@us.oracle.com Tom Jaskiewicz NNNNNN
imran@panix.com Imran Anwar YYYYYY
nargis@panix.com Nargis: Imran Inc YYYYYY
kim@shell.portal.com Kim DeVaughn NNNNNN
fusmani@qualcomm.com Farrukh Usmani YYYYYY
izaman@qualcomm.com Irfan Zaman YYYYYY
sumar@qualcomm.com Syed Umar YYYYYY
tkazi@qualcomm.com Tauseef Kazi YYYYYY
gabriel@readings-fun.com Gabriel Anwar NNNYYN
mmt@RedBrick.COM M Mike Taksar ---NN-
mariam@skypoint.com Mariam Ispahani YYYYYY
cheema@sparco.com Mubashir Cheema YYYYYY
jafferh@Synopsys.COM Jaffer Hussain YYYYYY
Lincoln@PO02.PL.unisys.com Lincoln, David PL YYYYYY
Lincoln@PO02.PL.unisys.com Lincoln, David PL YYYYYY
khano@wangfed.com Omar Hyat Khan YYYYYY
altaf@shell.wco.com Altaf Ali Bhimji NNNYNY
KidwaiF@flgwm.azmail.wlgore.com Kidwai, Farrukh YYYYYY
I.Ahmad@zds.com Iqrar Ahmad YYYYYY
list-votes@dream.hb.north.de Martin Schr"oder YYYYYY
joldenbu@transtec.de Josef Oldenburg NYNYYN
SFX@appl2.hrz.uni-siegen.de Lars Eilebrecht ---Y-N
ha4934@cnsvax.albany.edu Huma Ahmad YYYYYY
tlawson@email.univpubs.american.edu Todd C. Lawson YNYNNN
alghamdi@asu.edu AbdulRahman Alghamdi YYYYYY
naufal@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Naufal A. Khan NNNNNN
naufal@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Naufal A. Khan NNNYYY
farhana@EECS.Berkeley.EDU Farhana Sheikh YYYYYY
uaasaf@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu Amjad Asaf YYYYYY
aab@cns.bu.edu Aijaz Ahmed Baloch YYYYYY
bhatti@cs.bu.edu Ghulam M. Bhatti YYYYYY
mughal@alumni.caltech.edu Asim Mughal YYYYYY
bs56+@andrew.cmu.edu Brian Sammon --YYYY
cjc@arara.ece.cmu.edu Jia Ching Cheng YYYYYY
martins@isis.ece.cmu.edu Fernando Martins YYYYYY
asif@robin.ece.cmu.edu Amir Asif YYYYYY
ayari@cedar.Colorado.EDU Arselene AYARI YYYYYY
hareb@magellan.Colorado.EDU Saeed Ali Hareb YYYYYY
sohban@lance.colostate.edu Sohban Shahid YYYYYY
cls48@columbia.edu Chris Stamper NNNNNN
ro11@crux1.cit.cornell.edu Rohan Oberoi YYYYYY
badri@sofia.mae.cornell.edu Badrinarayanan Seshadri NNYNNN
SYED@CSMC.EDU Syed Qasim in ISS - ext. 4864 YYYYYY
Tarim.Wasim@Dartmouth.EDU Tarim Wasim YYNYYY
amagdebu@nyx10.cs.du.edu Andreas Magdeburg NNNNNN
jfberger@nyx10.cs.du.edu Joerg Florian Berger NNNNNN
STUMAYO@ACS.EKU.EDU Richard Scott Mayo YYYYYY
STUMSSMI@ACS.EKU.EDU Michael Sean Smith YYYYYY
STUWITTE@ACS.EKU.EDU Julie Witten YYYYYY
amem8974@ACC.FAU.EDU Amir Memon YYYYYY
mcho6337@ACC.FAU.EDU Mohammed Amjed YYYYYY
szai2510@ACC.FAU.EDU Syed Mohammed Tariq Wasim Zaidi YYYYYY
faslam@osf1.gmu.edu Farah Aslam YYYYYY
ryang@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu G. Ryan NNNNNN
sqmalik@iastate.edu Saqib Q. Malik YYYYYY
FMIDHET@PHNET.SPH.JHU.EDU Farid Midhet YYYYYY
AHMEDEX@VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU Ehsan Ahmed YYYYYY
rvarma@stallion.jsums.edu Rajiv Varma YNNYYY
iraj@gnu.ai.mit.edu Iraj Ali Mughal YYYYYY
patl@lcs.mit.edu Patrick J. LoPresti NNNNNN
pheonix@MIT.EDU Bilal A. Bhutta YYYYYY
raghib@pegasus.montclair.edu Raghib Muhammad YYYYYY
msm6@Ra.MsState.Edu Muhammad Salman Mughal YYYYYY
ppatel@lynx.dac.neu.edu P. Patel NNNNNN
khan@JTP.CS.NYU.EDU Hasnain Khan YYYYYY
gwani@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu gulzar wani YYYYYY
shussain@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Syed Rehan A Hussain YYYYYY
awani@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu Altaf A. Wani YYYYYY
karim.8@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu Shahid karim YYYYYY
karim.8@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu Shahid Karim YYYYYY
qayyumm@ava.BCC.ORST.EDU Qayyum, Mazhar YYYYYY
khan@ee.pdx.edu Shaukat Khan YYYYYY
ahm@smi.med.pitt.edu Ahmad Hashem NNNNNN
cbstone@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Chris Stone NNYNN-
vijaypai@rice.edu Vijay Pai NNNNNN
husais2@rpi.edu Saboohi Husain NNNYYY
hasan@camis.stanford.edu Zaki Hasan YYYYYY
rra@cs.stanford.edu Russ Allbery ---N--
zartash@leland.Stanford.EDU Zartash Afzal Uzmi YYYYYY
paustin@astro.ocis.temple.edu Pam Austin YYYYYY
paustin@astro.ocis.temple.edu Pam Austin YYYYYY
rick@bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller YNY---
gopal@ecf.toronto.edu Gopal Ganapathiraju Sree Ramana NNNNNN
smarry@turing.toronto.edu Smarasderagd NNNNNN
rhasan@UBmail.ubalt.edu Raza Hasan YYYYYY
hvvan@ucdavis.edu Hoa Van YYYYYY
hermit@cats.ucsc.edu William R Ward YYYYYY
lancec@dream.wireless.ucsc.edu Lance Chun NNNNNN
lancec@dream.wireless.ucsc.edu Lance K. Chun NNNNNN
gani@cs.uiowa.edu Tanveer Gani YYYYYY
fakhan@students.uiuc.edu Farid Ahmed Khan YYYYYY
mwdaniel@uiuc.edu Michael W. Daniels YYYYYY
chaudhry@engin.umich.edu Nauman A Chaudhry YNN-YY
afabbro@us.itd.umich.edu Andrew Fabbro NNNNNN
Shrisha.Rao@lambada.oit.unc.edu Shrisha Rao NNNNNN
basit@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu Azhar Basit Bhutta NNNNNN
brao@pollux.usc.edu Bapa Rao NNNNNN
su4834mo@uscolo.edu Mohammad Shoaib Sultan YYYYYY
ananda@cs.utexas.edu Ananda M. Kar NNNNNN
skhan@cs.utexas.edu Sameer Khan YYYYYY
ise277@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Zafar A. Ansari NNNYYY
ADMOM02%SAIRTI00.BITNET@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU Fayyaz Mahmood Shujauddin YYYNNN
rufinus@mbe.ece.wisc.edu J. Rufinus YYYYYY
madani@next.cc.wmich.edu Bardia Madani YYYYYY
bjnewcas@cs.wmich.edu Bryan Newcastle YYYYYY
31NAIMAT@wmich.edu Aman Naimat YYYYYY
ahmad.mumtaz@wmich.edu Ahmad Atif Mumtaz YYYYYY
Chantal.Hoogervorst@wmich.edu Chantal Hoogervorst YYYYYY
imtiaz.chaudhary@WMICH.EDU Imtiaz Ali Chaudhary YYYYYY
Raheel.Javed@wmich.edu Raheel Javed YYYYYY
Usman.Mangla@wmich.edu Usman A. Mangla YYYYYY
X92SULTAN@wmich.edu Ishrat sultan YYYYYY
Zia.Javed@wmich.edu Zia Javed YYYYYY
UN041431@WVNVAXA.WVNET.EDU Mohammed Mubeen N-NNYY
lateef@cerc.wvu.edu Khalid Lateef NNNYYY
widenius@cc.helsinki.fi Risto Widenius NNYNNN
Naeem.Iqbal@supelec-rennes.fr Naeem IQBAL, niqbal@supelec-rennes.fr YYYYYY
zafar@mcs.anl.gov Sohail Zafar YYYYYY
imran@merlin.jpl.nasa.gov Imran Mehdi YYYYYY
jimfrizz@iol.ie James Frizzell. -Y-Y--
f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp Supratic Gupta NNNYYY
dranees@klcyber.pc.my Dr. Munawar A. Anees YYYYYY
dranees@klcyber.pc.my Dr. Munawar A. Anees YYYYYY
abbasi@airmail.net Asif abbasi YYYYYY
iam@noc.ans.net Iqbal Mateen YYYYYY
nia@ans.net Nisar Ali YYYYYY
chaudhry@epix.net Nazeer A. Chaudhry YYYYYY
dr@ICSI.Net Dan Rothschild NNNNNN
john@handel.jlc.net John Leslie NN-YY-
birchall@pilot.njin.net Dan Birchall NYYNYN
redrick@pacificrim.net Richard Nielsen YYYYYY
bk103@torfree.net Naeem Siddiqi YYYYYY
ihsan@pak.win-uk.net IHSAN IBN ASLAM YYYNNN
ASADI@itcdelft.ITC.NL Asadi Harooni Hushang YYYYYY
FEROZ@itcdelft.ITC.NL Feroz-ud-Din YYYYYY
MEX3F@itcdelft.ITC.NL s.m.a.zaidi YYYYYY
sinan@ittpub.nl Sinan Akoglu NNNYYY
csaamw@urc.tue.nl Michiel Wijers NNNNNN
csaamw@urc.tue.nl Michiel Wijers NNNNNN
imran@idt.unit.no Muhammed Imran Mushtaq YYYYYY
BASHIZ@tui.lincoln.ac.nz Zulfiqar Bashir YYYYYY
srahmad@essential.org Rizwan Ahmad YYYYYY
mrycpa@hal-pc.org Mohammad Rashid Yousuf YYYYYY
cjlarse@svpal.org Chris Larse YYYYYY
alikazm@biruni.erum.com.pk Ali Azhar Kazmi YYYYYY
zubairi@biruni.erum.com.pk Junaid Ahmed Zubairi YYYYYY
bhatti@squint.Lhe.imran.pk Arif bhatti YYNNYY
shahid.saleem@abc.se Shahid Saleem YYYYYY
etlmraf@aachen.eed.ericsson.se Manzoor Ashraf NNNNNN
izhart@eee2.bham.ac.uk Tahir Izhar YYYYYY
ijackson@chiark.chu.cam.ac.uk Ian Jackson ------
ijackson@chiark.chu.cam.ac.uk Ian Jackson NNN---
namuft@essex.ac.uk Nomaan Aleem Mufti YYYYYY
F.ALAVI@kcl.ac.uk F. Alavi YYYYYY
almahdi@aladdin.co.uk Jaffer H Dharamsi YYYYYY
W.Ahmad@bnr.co.uk Waqar Ahmad YYYYYY
zakbar@cix.compulink.co.uk Zafar Akbar NNNYYY
HANIF@gharib.demon.co.uk Gharib Hanif YYYYYY
Tariq@hasnain.demon.co.uk Tariq Hasnain YYYYYY
aamer@janjua.demon.co.uk Aamer Akbar Janjua YYYYYY
penny.wythes@zetnet.co.uk Penny Wythes YYYYYY
orc@pell.chi.il.us david parsons YYYYYY
ggw@wolves.durham.nc.us Greg Woodbury YYYYYY
Invalid ballots
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as94bd@SANDCASTLE.COSC.BROCKU.CA AYAZ SOMJEE
! No votemark in ballot
AhadB@aol.com
! No name given
AsadKhan@aol.com
! No name given
DeepakChop@aol.com
! No name given
EuardoGonz@aol.com
! No name given
JJones3353@aol.com
! No name given
John293912@aol.com
! No name given
MalcolmZul@aol.com
! No name given
Mary488520@aol.com
! No name given
MoinA@aol.com
! No name given
MoizAnsari@aol.com
! No name given
PoitreMazc@aol.com
! No name given
Stevens748@aol.com
! No name given
Susan37870@aol.com
! No name given
YetLaiLee@aol.com
! No name given
syed@cisco.com Tanwir SyedMohammad
! No votemark in ballot
100543.3346@compuserve.com Abrar
! No votemark in ballot
72134.3070@compuserve.com M
! No votemark in ballot
zjamshed@dttus.com Zahra Jamshed
! No votemark in ballot
Johnny_Smith-U2464@email.mot.com
! No name given
Kola_Akinade-U2488@email.mot.com
! No name given
Mitch_Campbell-U2268@email.mot.com
! No name given
Moin_Ansari-U26870@email.mot.com
! No name given
Moin_Ansari-U26870@email.mot.com
! No name given
Moin_Ansari-U26870@email.mot.com
! No name given
Shrinivasa_Bhat-U3369@email.mot.com
! No name given
William_Powell-U2803@email.mot.com
! No name given
sayeed@netcom.com Syed Sayeed Ahmed
! No votemark in ballot
mistri@clifton.asd.sgi.com Afshad Mistri
! No votemark in ballot
khan@ee.pdx.edu Shaukat Khan
! No votemark in ballot
azfar@lockyer.hep.upenn.edu Farrukh Azfar
! No votemark in ballot
MEX3F@itcdelft.ITC.NL
! No votemark in ballot
From newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net Tue Apr 9 19:23:13 1996
Path: uunet!in1.uu.net!not-for-mail
From: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RESULT INVALIDATED: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization
Supersedes: <820128097.9915@uunet.uu.net>
Date: 9 Apr 1996 19:22:59 -0400
Organization: news.announce.newgroups
Lines: 116
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <4kergj$4dp@rodan.UU.NET>
References: <816915970.18355@uunet.uu.net> <12493.55830.604004@uunet.uu.net> <820128097.9915@uunet.uu.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8535 news.groups:200467 soc.culture.pakistan:142535
After a careful review of the votes, the result of the proposal to
reorganize soc.culture.pakistan is being declared invalid. The CFV
will be rerun as soon as possible.
This decision has been made because there is sufficient question about
what the result of the proposal would be in the absence of the many
problem votes that were received. The neutral votetaker has done his
best to ascertain which votes were valid and which were unacceptable,
and in doing so comes up with a result which would fail all of the
individual parts of the proposal, a couple as narrowly as only five
votes. Since it is possible that many, if not all, of the groups
would have passed if the votes of interested users were properly cast,
invalidating the vote gives the proponents of the new groups an
immediate chance to have the groups passed properly, without the vote
fraud that tainted this poll.
I very much regret the amount of time it has taken to come to this
point in the process. The analysis was not easy, necessitated the
cooperation of many site administrators, and was interrupted by the
independent travel of both me and the votetaker. The results of the
revote should be handled in a much faster fashion. (Similarly, for
those who are interested in the final decision on the
soc.culture.indian.jammu-kashmir vote which ended two weeks ago, it
should be announced late this week.)
I hope that the many, many people whom Moin Ansari has encouraged to
send mail to me and anyone associated with the group creation process
(including mentors and votetakers who had nothing to do with the
proposal) will be participating in the revote. I checked ten at
random and not a single one of them was from someone who had sent a
vote, valid or not. If these people join with the people who
participated in the first go around, and the people who contributed to
the fraud in this vote keep their eagerness in check, we should have a
fairly meaningful result.
Finally, it must be noted that this is not some sort of special
treatment because the proposal is about Pakistanis, as some people
have said in their mail. I do not feel that I have to make a
continuing defense for myself against baseless charges of bigotry, but
I want it explicitly known that this decision has not been made with
any bias regarding the content or users of the proposed new groups. I
have said, on more than one occasion, that I was fine with the
proposal passing. I did not send any mail criticizing the substance
of the proposal, to the proponents or anyone else, and I did not vote
against it. My interest is in seeing a fair and meaningful vote
conducted.
David Lawrence, moderator, news.announce.newgroups
ADDITIONAL COMMENTS FROM THE VOTETAKER
All votes from the itu.ch domain were invalidated. Mail was sent to
postmaster requesting verification of the votes. Evidence was
presented that is clear to me and other experienced mail
administrators that the bulk of the votes were probably artificially
generated. Further, I received replies from some of my mailed vote
acknowledgments there that essentially read,
What is an ack?
Who are you and why are you sending me this mail?
I don't know what you are talking about and I don't care.
etc...
After several weeks I received a reply to my mail enquiry to ITU. It
stated that all accounts were real and that it was not possible that
the vote mail was generated by a script. I don't disagree with
whether the accounts are real, but with the notion that because they
are real it means that the addresses cannot have been used by other
parties to generate votes. An inspection of the itu.ch votes
indicates beyond a reasonable doubt that many were not sent by the
individual voters. Incidentally, this should not in any way be read
to denigrate ITU or to say that every itu.ch vote was certainly bogus.
In the ballot analysis, the invalidation of numeros votes sent by one
user using five addresses bears special mention. Moin Ansari
<MoinA@aol.com>, one of the proposed moderators, had three ballots
invalidated. On being presented with evidence that he was involved in
an e-mail campaign and was distributing edited ballots, he responded
like so:
There is nothing wrong with doing so
Even though I am not doing it, I will stop if you insist
He was doing so. I have evidence that he continued to do so after he
both denied doing so and also agreed to cease. Further, he voted from
multiple accounts, using a variety of voter names in what to me is
clearly an attempt to get multiple votes counted. Mr. Ansari is
either incapable of understanding the rules for newsgroup creation or
does not feel that he is bound by them. Therefore, none of his votes
were counted. Even if the "address barred from voting" votes are
included, the final pass/fail resolution would not change.
The modified result, after suspect ballots are removed:
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education fails 120:53
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history fails 118:56
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated fails 121:52
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics fails 135:40
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion fails 135:40
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports fails 131:41
To Mr. Asim Mughal and other persons interested in this
reorganization, please accept my sincere apologies for any delay in
resolving this issue for which I am at fault. In addition to the
numerous difficulties that I encountered while trying to verify the
votes, I had a very prolonged and severe battle with the flu and my
life was further interrupted by two short but otherwise unplanned
trips.
Please be assured that I have no illness or trip on my calender for
the next month. :) I have read soc.culture.pakistan from time to time
(looking for topics on Buddhism) and surly there is traffic enough to
warrant some reorganization and I will make every effort to produce
the results of the revote as soon as is possible.
Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Mon Apr 15 16:38:11 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: CFV: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 15 Apr 1996 20:38:06 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 407
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 7 May 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <829600684.1276@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8567 news.groups:201335 soc.culture.pakistan:143734
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports
Newsgroups line:
soc.culture.pakistan.education Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports Sports in Pakistan.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 6 May 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Asim Mughal <mughal@alumni.caltech.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE: all groups
The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.
The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily. It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic and noise. Not only is it high-traffic, but a large part of
the traffic is heavy cross-posting of topics unrelated to Pakistan,
and ongoing personal flame-wars what belong in e-mail. Thus rendering
the newsgroup inoperable and unusable for serious readership. This
situation is also driving serious readership away from the newsgroup.
Current proposal is to rectify this situation by proposing to
reorganize the newsgroup into to a number of moderated and unmoderated
newsgroup based upon specific topics of discussion. These topics of
discussion are the largest threads of discussion on the current
soc.culture.pakistan and on some Pakistani mailing-list, and that's
why these specific topics were chosen at this time.
The current traffic of 200+ messages per day will increase
dramatically as more USENET readers come on-line from Pakistan itself
in the next few months.
The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers. They pooled their
initiatives into the current proposal to add several subgroups to the
soc.culture.pakistan hierarchy.
The proposed hierarchy is intended to provide a foundation for
sub-groups under the hierarchy. The proposed subs-groups will focus
on specific popular topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture. This
provides medium to express and share ideas, in addition to learn from
other's experiences and knowledge.
Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits. The
moderation will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be
censorship.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education
There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML and PNS-L. EML alone has 100 letters per week. The
audience and participation will be enhanced by leaps and bounds with a
newsgroup on this subject. The moderation is simply intended for
keeping the discussion relevant. Most of those participating are
educators and professors or professionals. The subject and its
implications, implementations and interpretations are vast enough to
justify a separate noise free newsgroup all by itself. The members on
the mailing lists have said they would participate in this newsgroup.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history
This newsgroup is of academic nature. Most participants are expected
to be historians and scholars. The history of Pakistan has been one
of the popular topic on current soc.culture.pakistan. Differing
interpretations, research and analysis of events and prominent
personalities which contributed in any towards the creation of
Pakistan do not have an appropriate existing newsgroup. This
newsgroup will fill in the big gap.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is
meant to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings. The
newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan is plagued with too much noise and
irrelevant postings. It is impossible to initiate, engage in or carry
on any meaningful discussion. This newsgroup will bring create the
long awaited alternative for the readers of newsgroup. Currently
daily average in soc.culture.pakistan is 200+.
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated will be the moderated form of the
current soc.culture.pakistan. soc.culture.pakistan will not be
affected and will continue to provide the unmoderated forum for those
oppose moderation.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics
Politics is a sensitive issue. Any attempt to moderate a politics
newsgroup can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a
certain viewpoint. The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no
one has any basis to think the moderators will censor them out or
their favorite political party. Not to mention, politics is one of
the most debated topic on the current soc.culture.pakistan, hence the
suggestion for a separate newsgroup on this topic.
RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion
Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious
discussions are not just on 'Islam'. If they were, then the three
*.religion.islam newsgroups would be more than enough. The other
religions in Pakistan are: Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi and
many more. The minority religions have their communities, school
s 
