From [email protected] Wed Mar  9 23:43:15 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (John M. Grohol)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.apps,comp.os.ms-windows.announce,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc
Subject: RFD: comp.os.ms-windows.apps reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 9 Mar 1994 22:52:51 -0500
Organization: nova.edu
Lines: 225
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Message-ID: 
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4747 news.groups:97678 comp.os.ms-windows.misc:24822 comp.os.ms-windows.apps:31958 comp.os.ms-windows.announce:580 comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc:28770

----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----
The First Request for Discussion (RFD) on the REORGANIZATION of
COMP.OS.MS-WINDOWS.APPS
----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----

Note: Discussion on this RFD should occur in "news.groups"
      as the Guidelines suggest.

Introduction
------------
The need for a reorganization of COMP.OS.MS-WINDOWS.APPS has
become apparent recently, as users in the newsgroup (including
myself) have complained aloud at the increasing traffic on
the numerous applications available for the MS-Windows operating
environment. In March, 1993, the Software Publishers Association 
reported that Windows applications outsold DOS applications for 
the first time in history. Since it has become all but impossible to
buy a PC nowadays without a copy of MS-Windows on it, and with the
upcoming release of Windows 4.0, MS-Windows appears to be
an operating environment that is stable, widely-accepted,
and here to stay.

This newsgroup has an enormous amount of traffic
and is consistently ranked in the top 100 or so newsgroups for
traffic and popularity. Finding topics on the applications
one is personally interested in has become all but impossible.
 
This serves as the formal Request for Discussion (RFD) on the
reorganization of comp.os.ms-windows.apps.
--------------------------------------------------------------
General Charter to be included for all new proposed groups:

Discussion on each proposed group will be limited to topics
on the MS-Windows applications that fall under that group's 
specific subject area.  For instance, only word-processing 
applications specific to the MS-Windows operating environment 
would be discussed in the proposed newsgroup, 
       comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc
Applications not falling under any of the proposed groups,
or whose proposed groups do not pass their individual creation
votes, can be discussed in the proposed renamed group,
       comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc

Discussion may be on commercial or non-commercial software.

Discussion may include, but is no means limited to:
questions, answers, reviews, comments, useability comparisons,
personal experiences, problem-solving, etc. on any
MS-Windows application that falls within that group's subject area.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Proposed Renaming:
-----------------
comp.os.ms-windows.apps -> comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc (unmoderated)

Charter: This newsgroup will take the place of the current
         catch-all newsgroup for topics related to various
         MS-Windows application discussions that do not fall
         into any of the proposed groups below (eg.-
         multimedia applications, Quicken, Mathematica); 
         and for the discussion of any MS-Windows applications for
         the below proposed new newsgroups which do not pass a final
         vote. Discussion on the Windows operating environment
         itself (eg.- new versions) should take place on 
         comp.os.ms-windows.misc, not on this group. 

         It is also proposed that comp.os.ms-windows.apps
         be removed after a 3-month period (to give people
         time to switch over) if the proposed group passes.

Specific Charters on New Groups Proposed:
----------------------------------------
Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc (unmoderated)

Description: Discussion on MS-Windows word-processing applications.

Charter: The subject area for this group is word-processing
         applications. Any discussion related to questions
         or comments on MS-Windows word-processing software
         would be appropriate here. AmiPro, Word for Windows,
         WordPerfect for Windows, etc. are software 
         topics appropriate for this group.
         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.spreadsheet (unmoderated)

Description: Discussion on MS-Windows spreadsheet applications.

Charter: The subject area for this group is spreadsheet
         applications. Any discussion related to questions
         or comments on MS-Windows spreadsheet software
         would be appropriate here. Excel, Quattro Pro,
         Lotus 1-2-3, etc. are examples of software 
         topics appropriate for this group.
         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm (unmoderated)

Description: Discussion on MS-Windows communication applications.

Charter: The subject area for this group is communication
         applications. Any discussion related to questions
         or comments on MS-Windows communications software
         would be appropriate here. WinCIM, Procomm+ for
         Windows, Winfax Pro, etc. are examples of software
         topics appropriate for this group. 
         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities (unmoderated)

Description: Discussion on MS-Windows utilities.

Charter: The subject area for this group is utilities for
         MS-Windows. Such add-ons as PC-Tools for Windows,
         HP's Dashboard, Norton Desktop for Windows, XtGold
         for Windows, Afterdark, etc. are examples
         of software topics appropriate for this group. 
         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.networking (unmoderated)

Description: Discussion of MS-Windows networking applications.

Charter: The subject area for this group is networking
         applications. Any discussion related to questions
         or comments on MS-Windows networking software
         would be appropriate here. Lantastic, Netware,
         Windows for Workgroups, etc.
         are examples of software topics appropriate for
         this group.
         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.graphics (unmoderated)

Description: Discussion of MS-Windows graphics & CAD applications.

Charter: The subject area for this group is graphics
         presentation and CAD applications. Any discussion
         related to questions or comments on MS-Windows
         graphics presentation and CAD software would
         be appropriate here. AutoCAD, Corel Draw,
         Harvard Graphics, etc. are examples of software
         topics appropriate for this group.
         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
Purposely left out of RFD:

Databases . . . . Covered already by the comp.databases.* hierarchy
PIMs . . . . . .  Not enough traffic to warrant own group (.01%)
Financial . . . . Not enough traffic to warrant own group (.87%)
Programming . . . Covered already by comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.*

Percentages were computed from a 2 month survey of subjects on
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.
---------

Summary
-------
By renaming the current group and adding 6 more
newsgroups to the hierarchy, comp.os.ms-windows.apps
will be made more easily readable in the near future.
The reorganization of comp.os.ms-windows.apps has
been overdue and this proposal has taken pains to be
as simple and as logical as possible.

Why not comp.os.ms-windows.excel, *.word, *.xtree, *.pc-tools, etc.?

The alternative reorganization plan would create a newsgroup
for each "major" application that exists on the market today.
A reorganization plan that goes by specific application names 
is much more uncertain & difficult, because those names are 
subject to change as software companies get eaten up
(and the name of their product changes), reorganize themselves,
or dump products in favor of following other avenues. 
Also, what constitutes a "major" (as opposed to minor or
hardly used) application would have to be argued; shareware and
freeware applications would also have to be equally represented.
And what is popular today certainly may not even exist 5 years 
>from now. Upkeep and maintenance of the hierarchy would have
to be done routinely, which is an unlikely prospect.
Last, if something like *.amipro doesn't pass, Amipro users
are left discussing their word processor only in *.misc again. 

If such a reorganization scheme is used, where do questions such as, 
"What's the best Windows word-processor/spreadsheet/etc.?" fall 
under? Do they have to crosspost to all the word-processor groups, 
or just *.misc? If they do the latter, a large pros & cons 
discussion on what is *the* best word processor would then ensue 
on *.misc, which would make such an reorganization 
effectively useless.

-------------------------------------

Notes on this RFD
-----------------
This RFD is being posted on March 10, 1994 to the following groups:
              news.groups
              news.announce.newgroups
              comp.os.ms-windows.apps
              comp.os.ms-windows.misc
              comp.os.ms-windows.announce
              comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc

and may be freely distributed to any other groups or mailing lists
where it might be of relevance. Please leave the Followup-To:
header intact. Persons not able to communicate or post directly
to Usenet may mail their comments or questions to:
            [email protected]

   **  All pertinent discussion relating to this RFD     **
   **  should take place on news.groups, hence           **
   **  follow-ups have been directed there. I strongly   **
   **  urge readers to limit their discussion on this    **
   **  RFD to news.groups, as is the recognized          **
   **  convention.                                       **

Call for Votes
--------------
The CFV is expected to be posted in approximately 30 days,
               on or around April 11, 1994.        
The CFV is expected to be conducted by an independent vote-taker,
arranged through Ron Dippold. The CFV will be sent out to the
same newsgroups (listed above) as the RFD was sent to. Details
on voting will be posted in the CFV.

-jmg

From [email protected] Thu Mar 24 18:10:05 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (John M. Grohol)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.apps,comp.os.ms-windows.announce,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc
Subject: 2nd RFD: comp.os.ms-windows.apps reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 23 Mar 1994 17:19:55 -0500
Organization: acast.nova.edu
Lines: 212
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4830 news.groups:98836 comp.os.ms-windows.misc:25678 comp.os.ms-windows.apps:33369 comp.os.ms-windows.announce:608 comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc:30124

----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----
The Second Request for Discussion (RFD) on the REORGANIZATION of
COMP.OS.MS-WINDOWS.APPS
----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----=----

Note: Discussion on this RFD should occur in "news.groups"
      as the Guidelines suggest.

Note: Changes from the 1st RFD are noted by a leading '*'.

Introduction
------------
The need for a reorganization of COMP.OS.MS-WINDOWS.APPS has
become apparent recently, as users in the newsgroup (including
myself) have complained aloud at the increasing traffic on
the numerous applications available for the MS-Windows operating
environment. In March, 1993, the Software Publishers Association 
reported that Windows applications outsold DOS applications for 
the first time in history. Since it has become all but impossible to
buy a PC nowadays without a copy of MS-Windows on it, and with the
upcoming release of Windows 4.0, MS-Windows appears to be
an operating environment that is stable, widely-accepted,
and here to stay.

This newsgroup has an enormous amount of traffic
and is consistently ranked in the top 100 or so newsgroups for
traffic and popularity. Finding topics on the applications
one is personally interested in has become all but impossible.
 
This serves as the formal Request for Discussion (RFD) on the
reorganization of comp.os.ms-windows.apps.
--------------------------------------------------------------
General Charter to be included for all new proposed groups:

Discussion on each proposed group will be limited to topics
on the MS-Windows applications that fall under that group's 
specific subject area.  For instance, only word-processing 
applications specific to the MS-Windows operating environment 
would be discussed in the proposed newsgroup, 
       comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc
Applications not falling under any of the proposed groups,
or whose proposed groups do not pass their individual creation
votes, can be discussed in the proposed renamed group,
       comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc

Discussion may be on commercial or non-commercial software.

Discussion may include, but is no means limited to:
questions, answers, reviews, comments, useability comparisons,
personal experiences, problem-solving, etc. on any
MS-Windows application that falls within that group's subject area.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Proposed Renaming:
-----------------
comp.os.ms-windows.apps -> comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc (unmoderated)

Charter: This newsgroup will take the place of the current
         catch-all newsgroup for topics related to various
         MS-Windows application discussions that do not fall
         into any of the proposed groups below (eg.-
         multimedia applications, Quicken, Mathematica); 
         and for the discussion of any MS-Windows applications for
         the below proposed new newsgroups which do not pass a final
         vote. Discussion on the Windows operating environment
         itself (eg.- new versions) should take place on 
         comp.os.ms-windows.misc, not on this group. 

         It is also proposed that comp.os.ms-windows.apps
         be removed after a 3-month period (to give people
         time to switch over) if the proposed group passes.

Specific Charters on New Groups Proposed:
----------------------------------------
Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc (unmoderated)

Description: Discussion on MS-Windows word-processing applications.

Charter: The subject area for this group is word-processing
         applications. Any discussion related to questions
         or comments on MS-Windows word-processing software
         would be appropriate here. AmiPro, Word for Windows,
         WordPerfect for Windows, etc. are software 
         topics appropriate for this group.
         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm (unmoderated)

Description: Discussion on MS-Windows communication applications.

Charter: The subject area for this group is communication
         applications. Any discussion related to questions
         or comments on MS-Windows communications software
         would be appropriate here. WinCIM, Procomm+ for
         Windows, Winfax Pro, etc. are examples of software
         topics appropriate for this group. 
         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities (unmoderated)

Description: Discussion on MS-Windows utilities.

Charter: The subject area for this group is utilities for
         MS-Windows. Such add-ons as PC-Tools for Windows,
         HP's Dashboard, Norton Desktop for Windows, XtGold
         for Windows, Afterdark, etc. are examples
         of software topics appropriate for this group. 
         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
*Name: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial (unmoderated)
*
*Description: Discussion on MS-Windows financial & tax software.
*
*Charter: The subject area for this group is financial
*         and tax software. Any discussion related to 
*         programs such as Quicken, Simply Tax, etc.    
*         are examples of software        
*         topics appropriate for this group.
*         The General Charter is also included here.
---------
Purposely left out of RFD:

Databases   -- Covered already by the comp.databases.* hierarchy
PIMs        -- Not enough traffic to warrant own group (.01%)
Financial   -- Not enough traffic to warrant own group (.87%)

* The above group was added due to discussion on the RFD.

Programming -- Covered already by comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.*

* Networking  -- Covered by CFV of comp.os.ms-windows.networking groups
* Spreadsheets - Covered by comp.apps.spreadsheets
* Graphics     - Covered by comp.graphics

* The above three proposed groups were deleted from the original
* RFD because they would be redundant to pre-existing groups.

Percentages were computed from a 2 month survey of subjects on
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.
---------

Summary
-------
By renaming the current group and adding a few more
newsgroups to the hierarchy, comp.os.ms-windows.apps
will be made more easily readable in the near future.
The reorganization of comp.os.ms-windows.apps has
been overdue and this proposal has taken pains to be
as simple and as logical as possible.

Why not comp.os.ms-windows.excel, *.word, *.xtree, *.pc-tools, etc.?

The alternative reorganization plan would create a newsgroup
for each "major" application that exists on the market today.
A reorganization plan that goes by specific application names 
is much more uncertain & difficult, because those names are 
subject to change as software companies get eaten up
(and the name of their product changes), reorganize themselves,
or dump products in favor of following other avenues. 
Also, what constitutes a "major" (as opposed to minor or
hardly used) application would have to be argued; shareware and
freeware applications would also have to be equally represented.
And what is popular today certainly may not even exist 5 years 
>from now. Upkeep and maintenance of the hierarchy would have
to be done routinely, which is an unlikely prospect.
Last, if something like *.amipro doesn't pass, Amipro users
are left discussing their word processor only in *.misc again. 

If such a reorganization scheme is used, where do questions such as, 
"What's the best Windows word-processor/spreadsheet/etc.?" fall 
under? Do they have to crosspost to all the word-processor groups, 
or just *.misc? If they do the latter, a large pros & cons 
discussion on what is *the* best word processor would then ensue 
on *.misc, which would make such an reorganization 
effectively useless.

-------------------------------------

Notes on this RFD
-----------------
This 2nd RFD is being posted on March 23, 1994 to the following groups:
              news.groups
              news.announce.newgroups
              comp.os.ms-windows.apps
              comp.os.ms-windows.misc
              comp.os.ms-windows.announce
              comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc

and may be freely distributed to any other groups or mailing lists
where it might be of relevance. Please leave the Followup-To:
header intact. Persons not able to communicate or post directly
to Usenet may mail their comments or questions to:
            [email protected]

   **  All pertinent discussion relating to this RFD     **
   **  should take place on news.groups, hence           **
   **  follow-ups have been directed there. I strongly   **
   **  urge readers to limit their discussion on this    **
   **  RFD to news.groups, as is the recognized          **
   **  convention.                                       **

* The first RFD was posted on March 10, 1994.

Call for Votes
--------------
The CFV is expected to be posted in approximately 30 days,
               on or around April 11, 1994.        
The CFV is expected to be conducted by an independent vote-taker,
arranged through Ron Dippold. The CFV will be sent out to the
same newsgroups (listed above) as the RFD was sent to. Details
on voting will be posted in the CFV.

-jmg

From [email protected] Thu Apr 21 23:47:54 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ian Kluft)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.os.ms-windows.announce,comp.os.ms-windows.apps,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc
Subject: CFV: comp.os.ms-windows.apps reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 20 Apr 1994 17:25:52 -0400
Organization: UseNet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 135
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Expires: 12 May 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: 
References:  
Reply-To: [email protected]
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4984 news.groups:101357 comp.os.ms-windows.announce:663 comp.os.ms-windows.apps:36072 comp.os.ms-windows.misc:27205 comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc:32540

                      FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                comp.os.ms-windows.apps Reorganization

Newsgroups lines: (all groups unmoderated)
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm       MS-Windows communication applications.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial  MS-Windows financial & tax software.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc       MS-Windows applications.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities  MS-Windows utilities.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc  MS-Windows word-processing applications.

Votes must be received by 29:59:59 UTC, 11 May 1994.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact [email protected] (Ian Kluft).  For questions about the
proposed groups contact [email protected] (John M. Grohol).

CHARTERS

General Charter to be included for all new proposed groups:
 
	Discussion on each proposed group will be limited to topics
	on the MS-Windows applications that fall under that group's 
	specific subject area.  For instance, only word-processing 
	applications specific to the MS-Windows operating environment 
	would be discussed in the proposed newsgroup, 
	       comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc
	Applications not falling under any of the proposed groups,
	or whose proposed groups do not pass their individual creation
	votes, can be discussed in the proposed renamed group,
	       comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc

	Discussion may be on commercial or non-commercial software.

	Discussion may include, but is no means limited to:
	questions, answers, reviews, comments, useability comparisons,
	personal experiences, problem-solving, etc. on any
	MS-Windows application that falls within that group's subject area.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc (unmoderated)
(proposed to replace comp.os.ms-windows.apps)

        This newsgroup will take the place of the current
        catch-all newsgroup for topics related to various
        MS-Windows application discussions that do not fall
        into any of the proposed groups below (eg.-
        multimedia applications, Quicken, Mathematica); 
        and for the discussion of any MS-Windows applications for
        the below proposed new newsgroups which do not pass a final
        vote. Discussion on the Windows operating environment
        itself (eg.- new versions) should take place on 
        comp.os.ms-windows.misc, not on this group. 

        It is also proposed that comp.os.ms-windows.apps
        be removed after a 3-month period (to give people
        time to switch over) if the proposed group passes.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is word-processing
        applications. Any discussion related to questions
        or comments on MS-Windows word-processing software
        would be appropriate here. AmiPro, Word for Windows,
        WordPerfect for Windows, etc. are software 
        topics appropriate for this group.
        The General Charter is also included here.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is communication
        applications. Any discussion related to questions
        or comments on MS-Windows communications software
        would be appropriate here. WinCIM, Procomm+ for
        Windows, Winfax Pro, etc. are examples of software
        topics appropriate for this group. 
        The General Charter is also included here.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is utilities for
        MS-Windows. Such add-ons as PC-Tools for Windows,
        HP's Dashboard, Norton Desktop for Windows, XtGold
        for Windows, Afterdark, etc. are examples
        of software topics appropriate for this group. 
        The General Charter is also included here.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial (unmoderated)

	The subject area for this group is financial
	and tax software. Any discussion related to 
	programs such as Quicken, Simply Tax, etc.    
	are examples of software appropriate for this group.
	The General Charter is also included here.


HOW TO VOTE

Mail the ballot to:    [email protected]
Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

Quick voting checklist:
1) Fill in the ballot form shown below.
2) Delete the rest of the CFV from your reply.
3) Make sure your reply goes to [email protected]

=========Begin Ballot Form - Don't delete any lines within the form!==========
comp.os.ms-windows.apps Reorganization Ballot    

Give your real name here:

[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
[ NO      ]  example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention

[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc (replaces comp.os.ms-windows.apps)
[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc
[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm
[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities
[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial
=========End Ballot Form - Don't delete any lines within the form!============

You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with an automated acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.

Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.
WARNING: In cases where voting fraud is determined to have occurred, it is
standard operating procedure to delete ALL votes submitted by the violator.
When in doubt, ask the vote-taker.

From [email protected] Wed May  4 17:41:28 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ian Kluft)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.os.ms-windows.announce,comp.os.ms-windows.apps,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc
Subject: 2nd CFV: comp.os.ms-windows.apps reorganization
Supersedes: 
Followup-To: poster
Date: 25 Apr 1994 15:58:49 -0400
Organization: UseNet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 148
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Expires: 12 May 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: 
References: 
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5006 news.groups:101892 comp.os.ms-windows.announce:668 comp.os.ms-windows.apps:36509 comp.os.ms-windows.misc:27515 comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc:32906

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                comp.os.ms-windows.apps Reorganization

Newsgroups lines: (all groups unmoderated)
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm       MS-Windows communication applications.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial  MS-Windows financial & tax software.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc       MS-Windows applications.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities  MS-Windows utilities.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc  MS-Windows word-processing applications.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 11 May 1994.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact [email protected] (Ian Kluft).  For questions about the
proposed groups contact [email protected] (John M. Grohol).

This CFV contains a "bounce acknowledgement" for votes which were received
and counted but the reply to the voter was returned as undeliverable.  If your
name appears on the list, you do not need to re-vote.  If you voted before
25 April 06:45 GMT and have neither received a reply by e-mail nor found your
name in the bounce ack, you may assume your vote did not reach the vote-
counting machine and should try again.  For votes after the bounce ack was
created, please check with the vote-taker.  If you have any further problems,
ask your site's postmaster.

CHARTERS

General Charter to be included for all new proposed groups:
 
        Discussion on each proposed group will be limited to topics
        on the MS-Windows applications that fall under that group's 
        specific subject area.  For instance, only word-processing 
        applications specific to the MS-Windows operating environment 
        would be discussed in the proposed newsgroup, 
               comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc
        Applications not falling under any of the proposed groups,
        or whose proposed groups do not pass their individual creation
        votes, can be discussed in the proposed renamed group,
               comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc

        Discussion may be on commercial or non-commercial software.

        Discussion may include, but is no means limited to:
        questions, answers, reviews, comments, useability comparisons,
        personal experiences, problem-solving, etc. on any
        MS-Windows application that falls within that group's subject area.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc (unmoderated)
(proposed to replace comp.os.ms-windows.apps)

        This newsgroup will take the place of the current
        catch-all newsgroup for topics related to various
        MS-Windows application discussions that do not fall
        into any of the proposed groups below (eg.-
        multimedia applications, Quicken, Mathematica); 
        and for the discussion of any MS-Windows applications for
        the below proposed new newsgroups which do not pass a final
        vote. Discussion on the Windows operating environment
        itself (eg.- new versions) should take place on 
        comp.os.ms-windows.misc, not on this group. 

        It is also proposed that comp.os.ms-windows.apps
        be removed after a 3-month period (to give people
        time to switch over) if the proposed group passes.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is word-processing
        applications. Any discussion related to questions
        or comments on MS-Windows word-processing software
        would be appropriate here. AmiPro, Word for Windows,
        WordPerfect for Windows, etc. are software 
        topics appropriate for this group.
        The General Charter is also included here.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is communication
        applications. Any discussion related to questions
        or comments on MS-Windows communications software
        would be appropriate here. WinCIM, Procomm+ for
        Windows, Winfax Pro, etc. are examples of software
        topics appropriate for this group. 
        The General Charter is also included here.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is utilities for
        MS-Windows. Such add-ons as PC-Tools for Windows,
        HP's Dashboard, Norton Desktop for Windows, XtGold
        for Windows, Afterdark, etc. are examples
        of software topics appropriate for this group. 
        The General Charter is also included here.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is financial
        and tax software. Any discussion related to 
        programs such as Quicken, Simply Tax, etc.    
        are examples of software appropriate for this group.
        The General Charter is also included here.


HOW TO VOTE

Mail the ballot to:    [email protected]
Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

Quick voting checklist:
1) Fill in the ballot form shown below.
2) Delete the rest of the CFV from your reply.
3) Make sure your reply goes to [email protected]

=========Begin Ballot Form - Don't delete any lines within the form!==========
comp.os.ms-windows.apps Reorganization Ballot    

Give your real name here:

[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
[ NO      ]  example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention

[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc (replaces comp.os.ms-windows.apps)
[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc
[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm
[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities
[         ]  comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial
=========End Ballot Form - Don't delete any lines within the form!============

You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with an automated acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.

Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.
WARNING: In cases where voting fraud is determined to have occurred, it is
standard operating procedure to delete ALL votes submitted by the violator.
When in doubt, ask the vote-taker.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps Reorganization Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                               Bruce Steinke

From [email protected] Mon May 16 21:46:55 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ian Kluft)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.os.ms-windows.announce,comp.os.ms-windows.apps,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc
Subject: RESULT: comp.os.ms-windows.apps reorganization - all groups pass
Supersedes: 
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 16 May 1994 14:36:00 -0400
Organization: UseNet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 516
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5088 news.groups:103818 comp.os.ms-windows.announce:704 comp.os.ms-windows.apps:38508 comp.os.ms-windows.misc:28697 comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc:34680

                             VOTING RESULTS
                comp.os.ms-windows.apps Reorganization

Voting for the comp.os.ms-windows.apps reorganization proposal ended at
23:59:59 UTC, 10 May 1994.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.
For voting questions only contact [email protected] (Ian Kluft).  For
questions about the newsgroups contact [email protected]
(John M. Grohol).

There were 330 valid votes submitted during the voting period.  Each proposed
newsgroup, in order to pass, must have at least 2/3 YES votes and at least
100 more YES than NO votes.  The results are as follows:

comp.os.ms-windows.apps Reorganization results - 330 valid votes

 Yes   No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
 284   43 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc (replaces comp.os.ms-windows.apps)
 282   39 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc
 280   45 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm
 280   45 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities
 227   80 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial
  10 invalid votes

All five groups passed.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.  If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the newsgroups shortly thereafter.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps (replaced by comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc) will be
removed in approximately three months.

Newsgroups lines: (all groups unmoderated)
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm       MS-Windows communication applications.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial  MS-Windows financial & tax software.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc       MS-Windows applications.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities  MS-Windows utilities.
comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc  MS-Windows word-processing applications.

CHARTERS

General Charter to be included for all new proposed groups:
 
        Discussion on each proposed group will be limited to topics
        on the MS-Windows applications that fall under that group's 
        specific subject area.  For instance, only word-processing 
        applications specific to the MS-Windows operating environment 
        would be discussed in the proposed newsgroup, 
               comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc
        Applications not falling under any of the proposed groups,
        or whose proposed groups do not pass their individual creation
        votes, can be discussed in the proposed renamed group,
               comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc

        Discussion may be on commercial or non-commercial software.

        Discussion may include, but is no means limited to:
        questions, answers, reviews, comments, useability comparisons,
        personal experiences, problem-solving, etc. on any
        MS-Windows application that falls within that group's subject area.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc (unmoderated)
(proposed to replace comp.os.ms-windows.apps)

        This newsgroup will take the place of the current
        catch-all newsgroup for topics related to various
        MS-Windows application discussions that do not fall
        into any of the proposed groups below (eg.-
        multimedia applications, Quicken, Mathematica); 
        and for the discussion of any MS-Windows applications for
        the below proposed new newsgroups which do not pass a final
        vote. Discussion on the Windows operating environment
        itself (eg.- new versions) should take place on 
        comp.os.ms-windows.misc, not on this group. 

        It is also proposed that comp.os.ms-windows.apps
        be removed after a 3-month period (to give people
        time to switch over) if the proposed group passes.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is word-processing
        applications. Any discussion related to questions
        or comments on MS-Windows word-processing software
        would be appropriate here. AmiPro, Word for Windows,
        WordPerfect for Windows, etc. are software 
        topics appropriate for this group.
        The General Charter is also included here.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is communication
        applications. Any discussion related to questions
        or comments on MS-Windows communications software
        would be appropriate here. WinCIM, Procomm+ for
        Windows, Winfax Pro, etc. are examples of software
        topics appropriate for this group. 
        The General Charter is also included here.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is utilities for
        MS-Windows. Such add-ons as PC-Tools for Windows,
        HP's Dashboard, Norton Desktop for Windows, XtGold
        for Windows, Afterdark, etc. are examples
        of software topics appropriate for this group. 
        The General Charter is also included here.

comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial (unmoderated)

        The subject area for this group is financial
        and tax software. Any discussion related to 
        programs such as Quicken, Simply Tax, etc.    
        are examples of software appropriate for this group.
        The General Charter is also included here.


comp.os.ms-windows.apps Reorganization Final Vote Ack


                                    comp.os.ms-windows.apps.financial -------+
                                    comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities ------+|
                                         comp.os.ms-windows.apps.comm -----+||
                                    comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc ----+|||
      comp.os.ms-windows.apps.misc (replaces comp.os.ms-windows.apps) ---+||||
                                                                         |||||
[email protected]                      Andre M Branum YYYYY
[email protected]                                               Steve Adams YYYYY
[email protected]                                     Alan Walford YYYYN
[email protected]                                              Daniel Akst YYYYY
[email protected]                          Anders M Jorgensen NNNNN
[email protected]                                 Mike Andersson  YYYYY
[email protected]                       Andreas Helke YYYYY
[email protected]                                        Andrew Deckowitz YYYYN
[email protected]                                           Andy Latto YYYYY
[email protected]                                                Art Klassen YYYYY
[email protected]                                       Andree Popp YYYYN
[email protected]                                   Allen L. Spruill YYYYY
[email protected]                          Audra Russell YYYYY
[email protected]                                              Jim Ault YYYYY
[email protected]                                       D. Scott Baeder YYYYY
[email protected]                                    Bernard Peek YYNYN
[email protected].hac.com                                     Jim Baukus YYYYY
[email protected]                                      Ben Kelley YYYYN
[email protected]               Robert F. Benningfield Jr. YYYYY
[email protected]                                       D Birchall YNYYN
[email protected]                                           B.J. Herbison YYYYY
[email protected]                                                 Bryan Koen YYYYN
[email protected]                                               Bob Farrell YYYYY
[email protected]                                       Bob Palin YYYYY
[email protected]                                    John Bridger YYYYY
[email protected]                                              Bruce Howells YYYYY
[email protected]                              Bruce T. Jorgens YYYYY
[email protected]                                        Bernard S Black YYYYN
[email protected]                                         Bruce Steinke YYYYY
[email protected]                                   Ben Van Loock YYYYY
[email protected]                                      Michael Bowman YYYYY
[email protected]                                        Bill Wood YYYYY
[email protected]                                       Christopher Kolar YYYYY
[email protected]                     Clinton A. Chamberlin YYYYY
[email protected]                                CARLOS DOMINGUEZ YYYYY
[email protected]                                Carmon Grissom YYYYY
[email protected]                                  Brian J. Catlin NNNNN
[email protected]                             Carl D. Casey YYYYY
[email protected]                                 Chuck Harding YYYYY
[email protected]                              Chris Addicks YYYYY
[email protected]                                     Christopher Mihaly YYYYY
[email protected]                                    David Parks NYYYY
[email protected]                                 CHRIS JACKSON YYNYN
[email protected]                                 Christoph Mueller YYYYY
[email protected]                                   Chris Marble Y----
[email protected]                      Charles McKenzie YYYYY
[email protected]                                         Carlos Antunes YYYYY
[email protected]                        Cornec ESLOG p8023 BD17 YYYYY
[email protected]                  Kenneth P. Crouch, Jr. NNNNN
[email protected]                                  Chris Payne NNNNN
[email protected]                                         Christopher Ward YYYYY
[email protected]                         Martin Rodgers YYYYY
[email protected]                                           David White YYYYN
[email protected]                                 David A. Lance YYYYY
[email protected]                                   Richard F. Daley YYYYY
[email protected]                                      Dan Pierson YYYYY
[email protected]                                             Doug Arlig YYYYY
[email protected]                                 Dave Hodgkinson YYYYY
[email protected]                               Dave Postill YYYYY
[email protected]                              Darren Spencer YYYYY
[email protected]                                              David Hobbs YYYYY
[email protected]                               David Dessert YYYYY
[email protected]                                             David E. Long YYYYY
[email protected]                                      Don Detweiler YYYYY
[email protected]                                       Wayne D. Hickman Y-YYY
[email protected]                                         David A. Fuess YYYYY
[email protected]                                         Dave Gardner YYYYY
[email protected]                                           Dan Herold YYYYN
disc7[email protected]                                      Robert Tucker YYYYY
[email protected]                                       Dana Kiehl YYYYY
[email protected]                                     David Allen YYYYY
[email protected]                               Rebecca Drayer NNNNN
driscoll%[email protected]                        Harold A. Driscoll YYYYY
[email protected]                                            Doug Smith YYYYY
[email protected]                                      DAVID W SNODGRASS YYYYY
[email protected]                               Durval Menezes YYYYY
[email protected]                                   Dennis Vogel YYYYY
[email protected]                                             Dante Volpe YYYYY
[email protected]                                                   YYNYN
[email protected]                                         David H. Wolen YYYYY
[email protected]    Jonathan Alan Edwards 
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