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General ( comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard )
From [email protected] Fri Nov 5 22:08:30 1993 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Miguel Farah F.) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.os.msdos.programmer Subject: RFD: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 5 Nov 1993 20:15:38 -0500 Organization: ing.puc.cl Lines: 105 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 6 Dec 1993 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4232 news.groups:86864 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:25238 comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc:43707 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware:88270 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc:63 comp.os.msdos.programmer:31441 This is a Request For Discusion regarding the reorganization of the comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard newsgroup. It is a well known fact that the current soundcard newsgroup has a very high traffic level, and is becoming chaotic. This is why I suggest the following reorganization of comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard: #1: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.soundcard.advocacy" #2: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.soundcard.announce" #3: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.soundcard.help" #4: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.soundcard.misc" #5: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.soundcard.programming" The newsgroup comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard was created in order to reduce the traffic level in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware - now that it's been split, the most logical step is moving comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard back to the hardware hierarchy. There has been a lot of dispute as to whether the soundcard group should be split according to company or topic. While the current traffic levels may indicate the need for a group based on an individual product (and we ALL know which one...), it is essential that the naming convention be chosen in a way that is relatively unaffectable by market trends. For example, a company might be bought out, and new standards might arise, but the topics concerning soundcards in general will not change. Note: in the following descriptions, "*" is understood to mean "comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.soundcard". NEWSGROUP DESCRIPTION ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ 1) *.advocacy discussing the advantages and disadvantages of the different PC soundcard models The very high level of discussion about which card is the best makes strongly advisable to create this newsgroup; it will be for comparisons between different soundcard models and not for flames. 2) *.announce important announcements about PC soundcards (moderated) This newsgroup -which will be moderated- will be for important announcements concerning PC soundcards (new drivers for some card, new model released, etc.). The generic FAQL and the brand-specific ones should be published here periodically. Followups should be directed to *.misc. ****** THERE ISN'T A MODERATOR YET - CANDIDATES WANTED ****** 3) *.help help requests related to PC soundcards This newsgroup will be for help requests and their answers concerning problems installing/using PC soundcards (how to physically put them on the computer, solving DMA/IRQ conflicts, asking for newer drivers, how to set-up them, how to make them work under some application, etc.). Discussions about problems programming a soundcard should be kept in the .programming group and not cross-posted here. 4) *.misc miscellaneous topics about PC soundcards This newsgroup will supersede comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard. It will cover every PC soundcard topic that is not covered by the other newsgroups. Once this newsgroup is created, comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard shall be rmgrouped after three (3) months. 5) *.programming programming PC souncards This newsgroup will cover topics related to how to program the different PC soundcards. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Newsgroup creation votes should be separated and voted in parallel: BALLOT ENTRY #1: addition of the subgroup ".advocacy" to the soundcard hierarchy. BALLOT ENTRY #2: addition of the subgroup ".announce" to the soundcard hierarchy. BALLOT ENTRY #3: addition of the subgroup ".help" to the soundcard hierarchy. BALLOT ENTRY #4: addition of the subgroup ".misc" to the soundcard hierarchy. BALLOT ENTRY #5: addition of the subgroup ".programming" to the soundcard hierarchy. [[ news.announce.newgroups moderator's note: THIS IS NOT A VOTE. THE ACTUAL VOTE WILL NOT BE FOR SEVERAL WEEKS. -- tale ]] Notes: - remember that you can vote YES to some groups and NO to other ones *independently* from each other. For example, if you were interested only in a split by company, you could vote YES to the ".advocacy", ".announce" and ".misc" groups and vote NO to the ".help" and ".programming" groups. - *during* the RFD we should discuss if the soundcard hierarchy should return or not to the hardware hierarchy. -- MIGUEL FARAH F. // "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." [email protected] // - Sledge Hammer #include// From [email protected] Tue Nov 30 18:54:42 1993 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Miguel Farah F.) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.setup Subject: 2nd RFD: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 30 Nov 1993 12:55:30 -0500 Organization: ing.puc.cl Lines: 103 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4524 news.groups:88930 comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc:44525 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc:598 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:27885 comp.os.msdos.programmer:32448 comp.os.ms-windows.setup:8125 This is the second Request For Discusion regarding the reorganization of the comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard newsgroup. It is a well known fact that the current soundcard newsgroup has a very high traffic level, and is becoming chaotic. This is why I suggest the following reorganization of comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard: #1: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy" #2: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.announce" #3: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.help" #4: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc" #5: creation of the newsgroup "comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.programmer" If comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc is created, comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard will be removed in three months from its creation. There has been a lot of dispute as to whether the soundcard group should be split according to company or topic. While the current traffic levels may indicate the need for a group based on an individual product (and we ALL know which one...), it is essential that the naming convention be chosen in a way that is relatively unaffectable by market trends. For example, a company might be bought out, and new standards might arise, but the topics concerning soundcards in general will not change. Note: in the following descriptions, "*" is understood to mean "comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard". NEWSGROUP DESCRIPTION ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ 1) *.advocacy discussing the advantages and disadvantages of the different PC soundcard models The very high level of discussion about which card is the best makes strongly advisable to create this newsgroup; it will be for comparisons between different soundcard models and not for flames. 2) *.announce important announcements about PC soundcards (moderated) This newsgroup -which will be moderated- will be for important announcements concerning PC soundcards (new drivers for some card, new model released, etc.). The generic FAQL and the brand-specific ones should be published here periodically. Followups should be directed to *.misc. ****** THERE ISN'T A MODERATOR YET - CANDIDATES WANTED ****** 3) *.help help requests related to PC soundcards This newsgroup will be for help requests and their answers concerning problems installing/using PC soundcards (how to physically put them on the computer, solving DMA/IRQ conflicts, asking for newer drivers, how to set-up them, how to make them work under some application, etc.). Discussions about problems programming a soundcard should be kept in the .programmer group and not cross-posted here. 4) *.misc miscellaneous topics about PC soundcards This newsgroup will supersede comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard. It will cover every PC soundcard topic that is not covered by the other newsgroups. Once this newsgroup is created, comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard shall be rmgrouped after three (3) months. 5) *.programmer programming PC souncards This newsgroup will cover topics related to how to program the different PC soundcards. (The name in the first RFD was .programming, but it was suggested to have it changed). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Newsgroup creation votes should be separated and voted in parallel: BALLOT ENTRY #1: addition of the subgroup ".advocacy" to the soundcard hierarchy. BALLOT ENTRY #2: addition of the subgroup ".announce" to the soundcard hierarchy. BALLOT ENTRY #3: addition of the subgroup ".help" to the soundcard hierarchy. BALLOT ENTRY #4: addition of the subgroup ".misc" to the soundcard hierarchy. BALLOT ENTRY #5: addition of the subgroup ".programmer" to the soundcard hierarchy. Notes: - remember that you can vote YES to some groups and NO to other ones *independently* from each other. For example, if you were interested only in a split by company, you could vote YES to the ".advocacy", ".announce" and ".misc" groups and vote NO to the ".help" and ".programmer" groups. It is not time to vote yet. Full voting instructions will come in a future Call for Votes (CFV) article. -- MIGUEL FARAH F. // "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." [email protected] // - Sledge Hammer #include // From [email protected] Tue Mar 29 20:09:10 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Michael Young Ko) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Subject: RFD: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 29 Mar 1994 15:47:49 -0500 Organization: Computer Science Department, The Johns Hopkins University Lines: 151 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4843 news.groups:99431 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:41833 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc:4423 The following RFD has been cross posted to news.annouce.newgroups, news.groups, and comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard. Also, the follow up group will be the news.groups. Request For Discussion: This is a formal Request For Discussion concerning the groups comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard and the illegal group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS. This RFD is to remove the groups comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS and replace comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard with the four following groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.(hardware).soundcard.games comp.sys.ibm.pc.(hardware).soundcard.music comp.sys.ibm.pc.(hardware).soundcard.tech comp.sys.ibm.pc.(hardware).soundcard.advocacy All of these groups will be unmoderated. The purpose of having hardware in parentheses is the possible of placing the soundcard group under the hardware hierarchy. This is mainly for conforming to the other ibm pc hardware groups. Charters for proposed groups: a) comp.sys.ibm.pc.(hardware).soundcard.games - Unmoderated discussion of using IBM-PC compatible games with a specific soundcard, resolving compatibility problems of a certain soundcard with a particular game, discussing campaigns at software groups to have more native soundcard support, questions if a particular game supports a certain soundcard, and questions on which soundcard is best for a particular game or all games in general. b) comp.sys.ibm.pc.(hardware).soundcard.music - Unmoderated discussion of software that plays back and record sound and music files, music formats such as WAV, VOC, MIDI, MOD, STM, 669, ULT, ROL, etc., resolving problems with musical software, discussing which software or hardware is best for a particular musical or sound project, and questions concerning sampling or sound patch making. c) comp.sys.ibm.pc.(hardware).soundcard.tech - Unmoderated discussion of questions concerning programming a particular soundcard, discussing hardware problems such as loss of sound from a particular channel, discussing the pros and cons of a particular sound generation scheme, questions on the compatibility of the soundcard to a particular computer type, operating system, and peripheral such as a CD-ROM drive, questions about the functionality of a particular soundcard, and resolving hardware problems. d) comp.sys.ibm.pc.(hardware).soundcard.advocacy - Unmoderated discussion of the pros and cons of soundcards in general. This discussion will possibly overlap some discussions on the other soundcard groups. Also reviews of soundcards and future opinions and tests of soundcards will be placed in this group to be discussed by the users. Justification: The sudden increase in the volume of messages posted to the group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard has caused the suggestion of splitting the group to appear. Many users on the group have expressed interest in dividing the group because the topics listed on the group are varied tremendously. Having approximately 200+ new messages a day on this group is expensive to some users who must pay for the receiving the usenet group based upon amount of information as well as paying for the amount of time needed to sort through all of the messages. Currently, a heated debate is present on the c.s.i.p.s group which is disrupting those users more interested in new software and problems. They have expressed concern that some are not able to keep up with all of the traffic and decided that by splitting the group, this would allow them to read the messages relevant to their interests pertaining to their soundcard. The comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS is unrecognized usenet group throughout many news servers. Therefore, to avoid confusion and to reorganize the entire soundcard group, this illegal group must be eliminated. Many GUS users are satisfied with removing this group and using the four above mentioned subgroups. There was also concern about where this group should be located, under the comp.syd.ibm.pc hierarchy or comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware hierarchy. Most are flexible with the location of these groups. It is a matter which is better in terms of an organizational point of view. By placing these groups under the hardware hierarchy, these groups will be seven levels deep. Also, by leaving the split groups under the comp.sys.ibm.pc hierarchy, the transition would be less disrupting. Rationale: The idea of spliting the group was tossed around the c.s.i.p.s group many times. However, no action was ever taken. It is hoped that finally with the dramatic increase in messages, that this reorganization would make the group more efficient and easier to use. Questions had to be raised about add another group, a c.s.i.p.soundcard.GUS group which would handle all topics specific to the Gravis Ultrasound card. Presently, a majority of messages on the group is concerned with this card. Now with the a 100 message increase because of a heated debate (flame war?) the rational users want the group to be split. This eventually let to a group discussion about splitting up the soundcard group based upon the particular cards discussed, such as the Ultrasound, Soundblaster, Pro Audio Spectrum, etc. However, further discussion revealed that a majority thought that such a split would be short term due to the possibility of an unexpected loss of interest in a particular product. Therefore, because of the prospect of new soundcards being released that would increase the number of messages to the group, the prospect of more pc users of becoming involved in the multimedia revolution, and the steadily increase in messages in this group, it was decided that the group should be split based upon the topics mentioned above. The games group was chosen because a great number of posts on the soundcard group are concerned with how to use a particular soundcard with a particular game and what soundcard is best to use with game. Many users were concerned that the group was overrun with posts concerning how to get a particular game to work with a particular soundcard. They had to try to sift through the 200+ message a day to look for non-game compatibility messages. Therefore, the music group was also chosen because the other large part of message is related to the production of music. These include what programs can use a particular music format, and what programs exist to create programs. Also, in this group is the topic of sounds such as digitizing sound bytes and songs. A separate group was not created because many of the problems and solutions concerning recording or playing back sounds is related to the music production scene. The tech section was chosen because many users occasionally have questions about the technical aspect of soundcard, such as the pros and cons on how a soundcard generates sounds. Also, any hardware problems and compatibility would be discussed. But most importantly, the advocacy group would handle the bulk of the soundcard debate and keep it away from those more concerned with games or music. Such a split would try to evenly distribute the messages throughout the sub groups. Most agree that sorting through 50+ is cheaper and less time-consuming. Schedule: These proposals have been discussed informally in the comp.sys.ibm. pc.soundcard group for the past five weeks. I have decided to write the RFD to have the group split. I have been keeping count of the number of users in favor and against the proposal. Because of the vast majority of those in favor of splitting the group, I have made the RFD request. The posting of this RFD will begin the discussion period lasting 21 days. The discussion will take place in news.groups. Do not vote on this RFD now. After the 21 days and/or there are no unresolvable points, a formal Call For Votes will be announced. Michael Ko -- / ...the chances of getting picked up by another/ The Invincible \ / ship within those thirty seconds are 2 to the / [email protected] \ \ power of 276709 to one against." - From The \ Computer Science Depart. / \ Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - D. Adams \ Johns Hopkins University/ From [email protected] Thu Apr 7 13:55:48 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Michael Young Ko) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Subject: 2nd RFD: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 6 Apr 1994 17:29:54 -0400 Organization: Computer Science Department, The Johns Hopkins University Lines: 162 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4905 news.groups:100032 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:42942 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc:4687 The following RFD has been cross posted to news.annouce.newgroups, news.groups, and comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard. Also, the follow up group will be the news.groups. This is a revision of the RFD for this reorganzation posted about a week ago. April 5, 1994 Request For Discussion: This is a formal Request For Discussion concerning the groups comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard and the illegal group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS. This RFD is to remove the groups comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS and replace comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard with the four following groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc All of these groups will be unmoderated. Charters for proposed groups: a) comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games - Unmoderated discussion of using IBM-PC compatible games with a specific soundcard, resolving compatibility problems of a certain soundcard with a particular game, discussing campaigns at software groups to have more native soundcard support, questions if a particular game supports a certain soundcard, and questions on which soundcard is best for a particular game or all games in general. b) comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music - Unmoderated discussion of software that plays back and record sound and music files, music formats such as WAV, VOC, MIDI, MOD, STM, 669, ULT, ROL, etc., resolving problems with musical software, discussing which software or hardware is best for a particular musical or sound project, and questions concerning sampling or sound patch making. c) comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech - Unmoderated discussion of questions concerning programming a particular soundcard, discussing hardware problems such as loss of sound from a particular channel, discussing the pros and cons of a particular sound generation scheme, questions on the compatibility of the soundcard to a particular computer type, operating system, and peripheral such as a CD-ROM drive, questions about the functionality of a particular soundcard, and resolving hardware problems. d) comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy - Unmoderated discussion of the pros and cons of soundcards in general. This discussion will possibly overlap some discussions on the other soundcard groups. Also reviews of soundcards and future opinions and tests of soundcards will be placed in this group to be discussed by the users. e) comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc - Unmoderated discussion of topics concerning soundcard hardware and software that is outside of the above mentioned topics. These could include upcoming product release or updates for soundcard software. Justification: The sudden increase in the volume of messages posted to the group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard has caused the suggestion of splitting the group to appear. Many users on the group have expressed interest in dividing the group because the topics listed on the group are varied tremendously. Having approximately 200+ new messages a day on this group is expensive to some users who must pay for the receiving the usenet group based upon amount of information as well as paying for the amount of time needed to sort through all of the messages. Currently, a heated debate is present on the c.s.i.p.s group which is disrupting those users more interested in new software and problems. They have expressed concern that some are not able to keep up with all of the traffic and decided that by splitting the group, this would allow them to read the messages relevant to their interests pertaining to their soundcard. The comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS is unrecognized usenet group throughout many news servers. Therefore, to avoid confusion and to reorganize the entire soundcard group, this illegal group must be eliminated. Many GUS users are satisfied with removing this group and using the four above mentioned subgroups. There was also concern about where this group should be located, under the comp.syd.ibm.pc hierarchy or comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware hierarchy. It has been decided to leave the soundcard subgroups under the former mentioned hierarchy to prevent any problems with news servers and provides with usenet groups with seven level names. Also, the transition would be less disturbing. Rationale: The idea of spliting the group was tossed around the c.s.i.p.s group many times. However, no action was ever taken. It is hoped that finally with the dramatic increase in messages, that this reorganization would make the group more efficient and easier to use. Questions had to be raised about add another group, a c.s.i.p.soundcard.GUS group which would handle all topics specific to the Gravis Ultrasound card. Presently, a majority of messages on the group is concerned with this card. Now with the a 100 message increase because of a heated debate (flame war?) the rational users want the group to be split. This eventually let to a group discussion about splitting up the soundcard group based upon the particular cards discussed, such as the Ultrasound, Soundblaster, Pro Audio Spectrum, etc. However, further discussion revealed that a majority thought that such a split would be short term due to the possibility of an unexpected loss of interest in a particular product. Therefore, because of the prospect of new soundcards being released that would increase the number of messages to the group, the prospect of more pc users of becoming involved in the multimedia revolution, and the steadily increase in messages in this group, it was decided that the group should be split based upon the topics mentioned above. The games group was chosen because a great number of posts on the soundcard group are concerned with how to use a particular soundcard with a particular game and what soundcard is best to use with game. Many users were concerned that the group was overrun with posts concerning how to get a particular game to work with a particular soundcard. They had to try to sift through the 200+ message a day to look for non-game compatibility messages. Therefore, the music group was also chosen because the other large part of message is related to the production of music. These include what programs can use a particular music format, and what programs exist to create programs. Also, in this group is the topic of sounds such as digitizing sound bytes and songs. A separate group was not created because many of the problems and solutions concerning recording or playing back sounds is related to the music production scene. The tech section was chosen because many users occasionally have questions about the technical aspect of soundcard, such as the pros and cons on how a soundcard generates sounds. Also, any hardware problems and compatibility would be discussed. But most importantly, the advocacy group would handle the bulk of the soundcard debate and keep it away from those more concerned with games or music. Finally, the misc group would be concerned with any topic or discussion outside of the above mentioned groups. This group is need to provide some kind of order in the other groups. Posting messages not really relevant to a particular group would cause an increase in traffic where it is not needed. As evident from other groups that have split, the misc section is used often. Possibly, by posting to the misc group, the message could be sent to the proper subgroup.Such a split would try to evenly distribute the messages throughout the sub groups. Most agree that sorting through 50+ is cheaper and less time-consuming. Schedule: These proposals have been discussed informally in the comp.sys.ibm. pc.soundcard group for the past six weeks. I have decided to write the 1st RFD, as well as this revision, to have the group split. I have been keeping count of the number of users in favor and against the proposal. Because of the vast majority of those in favor of splitting the group, I have made this RFD request and revision. The posting of this 2nd RFD will begin a new discussion period lasting 21 days. The discussion will take place in news.groups. Do not vote on this RFD now. After the 21 days and/or there are no unresolvable points, a formal Call For Votes will be announced. Michael Ko -- / ...the chances of getting picked up by another/ The Invincible \ / ship within those thirty seconds are 2 to the / [email protected] \ \ power of 276709 to one against." - From The \ Computer Science Depart. / \ Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - D. Adams \ Johns Hopkins University/ From [email protected] Wed May 11 14:52:46 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Andrew Solovay) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard Subject: CFV: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Followup-To: poster Date: 9 May 1994 19:10:13 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers (UVV) Lines: 213 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 31 May 1994 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] (Andrew Solovay's vote-taking alias) NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5038 news.groups:103106 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:47682 FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy unmoderated group comp.sys.icm.pc.soundcard.misc (replaces comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard) Newsgroups line: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech Technical questions about pc soundcards. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music Music and sound questions using soundcards. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games Questions about using soundcards with games. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy Advocacy for a particular soundcard. comp.sys.icm.pc.soundcard.misc Soundcards in general. Votes must be received by 29:59:59 GMT, 30 May 1994. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions only contact Andrew Solovay <[email protected]>. For questions about the proposed group contact Michael Young Ko <[email protected]>. The vote-taker will post each CFV to the GUS Daily Digest at <[email protected]> shortly after it is posted to news.announce.newsgroups. He will send an abridged RESULT posting (without the full list of voters) to the mailing list after voting ends; the full RESULTs will be posted to all the newsgroups where the CFV was posted. CHARTERS comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games Unmoderated discussion of using IBM-PC compatible games with a specific soundcard, resolving compatibility problems of a certain soundcard with a particular game, discussing campaigns at software groups to have more native soundcard support, questions if a particular game supports a certain soundcard, and questions on which soundcard is best for a particular game or all games in general. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music Unmoderated discussion of software that plays back and record sound and music files, music formats such as WAV, VOC, MIDI, MOD, STM, 669, ULT, ROL, etc., resolving problems with musical software, discussing which software or hardware is best for a particular musical or sound project, and questions concerning sampling or sound patch making. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech Unmoderated discussion of questions concerning programming a particular soundcard, discussing hardware problems such as loss of sound from a particular channel, discussing the pros and cons of a particular sound generation scheme, questions on the compatibility of the soundcard to a particular computer type, operating system, and peripheral such as a CD-ROM drive, questions about the functionality of a particular soundcard, and resolving hardware problems. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy Unmoderated discussion of the pros and cons of soundcards in general. This discussion will possibly overlap some discussions on the other soundcard groups. Also reviews of soundcards and future opinions and tests of soundcards will be placed in this group to be discussed by the users. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc Unmoderated discussion of topics concerning soundcard hardware and software that is outside of the above mentioned topics. These could include upcoming product release or updates for soundcard software. (This group would supersede the existing group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.) JUSTIFICATION: The sudden increase in the volume of messages posted to the group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard has caused the suggestion of splitting the group to appear. Many users on the group have expressed interest in dividing the group because the topics listed on the group are varied tremendously. Having approximately 200+ new messages a day on this group is expensive to some users who must pay for the receiving the usenet group based upon amount of information as well as paying for the amount of time needed to sort through all of the messages. Currently, a heated debate is present on the c.s.i.p.s group which is disrupting those users more interested in new software and problems. They have expressed concern that some are not able to keep up with all of the traffic and decided that by splitting the group, this would allow them to read the messages relevant to their interests pertaining to their soundcard. The comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS is unrecognized usenet group throughout many news servers. Therefore, to avoid confusion and to reorganize the entire soundcard group, this illegal group must be eliminated. Many GUS users are satisfied with removing this group and using the four above mentioned subgroups. There was also concern about where this group should be located, under the comp.syd.ibm.pc hierarchy or comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware hierarchy. It has been decided to leave the soundcard subgroups under the former mentioned hierarchy to prevent any problems with news servers and provides with usenet groups with seven level names. Also, the transition would be less disturbing. RATIONALE: The idea of spliting the group was tossed around the c.s.i.p.s group many times. However, no action was ever taken. It is hoped that finally with the dramatic increase in messages, that this reorganization would make the group more efficient and easier to use. Questions had to be raised about add another group, a c.s.i.p.soundcard.GUS group which would handle all topics specific to the Gravis Ultrasound card. Presently, a majority of messages on the group is concerned with this card. Now with the a 100 message increase because of a heated debate (flame war?) the rational users want the group to be split. This eventually let to a group discussion about splitting up the soundcard group based upon the particular cards discussed, such as the Ultrasound, Soundblaster, Pro Audio Spectrum, etc. However, further discussion revealed that a majority thought that such a split would be short term due to the possibility of an unexpected loss of interest in a particular product. Therefore, because of the prospect of new soundcards being released that would increase the number of messages to the group, the prospect of more pc users of becoming involved in the multimedia revolution, and the steadily increase in messages in this group, it was decided that the group should be split based upon the topics mentioned above. The games group was chosen because a great number of posts on the soundcard group are concerned with how to use a particular soundcard with a particular game and what soundcard is best to use with game. Many users were concerned that the group was overrun with posts concerning how to get a particular game to work with a particular soundcard. They had to try to sift through the 200+ message a day to look for non-game compatibility messages. Therefore, the music group was also chosen because the other large part of message is related to the production of music. These include what programs can use a particular music format, and what programs exist to create programs. Also, in this group is the topic of sounds such as digitizing sound bytes and songs. A separate group was not created because many of the problems and solutions concerning recording or playing back sounds is related to the music production scene. The tech section was chosen because many users occasionally have questions about the technical aspect of soundcard, such as the pros and cons on how a soundcard generates sounds. Also, any hardware problems and compatibility would be discussed. But most importantly, the advocacy group would handle the bulk of the soundcard debate and keep it away from those more concerned with games or music. Finally, the misc group would be concerned with any topic or discussion outside of the above mentioned groups. This group is need to provide some kind of order in the other groups. Posting messages not really relevant to a particular group would cause an increase in traffic where it is not needed. As evident from other groups that have split, the misc section is used often. Possibly, by posting to the misc group, the message could be sent to the proper subgroup.Such a split would try to evenly distribute the messages throughout the sub groups. Most agree that sorting through 50+ is cheaper and less time-consuming. HOW TO VOTE Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these lines and do not change the group names. Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it. If you don't want to vote on a particular group, just leave the space blank. Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts. Then mail the ballot to: [email protected] Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line. -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Ballot (Don't remove this marker) Give your real name here: [Your Vote] Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ] comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech [ ] comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music [ ] comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games [ ] comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy [ ] comp.sys.icm.pc.soundcard.misc (replaces comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard) -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. Each person may vote only once, no matter how many accounts he or she may have. Also, only one ballot will be accepted from any account, no matter how many people may share it. If more than one vote is received >from any person or any account, only the last vote received will be counted. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list. All ballots received are kept in the UVV archives (including "cancelled" and invalid ballots). The vote files are made available to the moderator of news.announce.newgroups on request. They may also, at the discretion of the UVV, be made more widely available if there is a controversy concerning the vote. From [email protected] Mon May 23 15:56:55 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Andrew Solovay) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard Subject: 2nd CFV: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: poster Date: 20 May 1994 14:48:16 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers (UVV) Lines: 234 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 31 May 1994 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] (Andrew Solovay's vote-taking alias) NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5121 news.groups:104419 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:49124 LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy unmoderated group comp.sys.icm.pc.soundcard.misc (replaces comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard) Newsgroups line: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech Technical questions about pc soundcards. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music Music and sound questions using soundcards. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games Questions about using soundcards with games. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy Advocacy for a particular soundcard. comp.sys.icm.pc.soundcard.misc Soundcards in general. Votes must be received by 29:59:59 GMT, 30 May 1994. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions only contact Andrew Solovay <[email protected]>. For questions about the proposed group contact Michael Young Ko <[email protected]>. The vote-taker will post each CFV to the GUS Daily Digest at <[email protected]> shortly after it is posted to news.announce.newsgroups. He will send an abridged RESULT posting (without the full list of voters) to the mailing list after voting ends; the full RESULTs will be posted to all the newsgroups where the CFV was posted. CHARTERS comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games Unmoderated discussion of using IBM-PC compatible games with a specific soundcard, resolving compatibility problems of a certain soundcard with a particular game, discussing campaigns at software groups to have more native soundcard support, questions if a particular game supports a certain soundcard, and questions on which soundcard is best for a particular game or all games in general. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music Unmoderated discussion of software that plays back and record sound and music files, music formats such as WAV, VOC, MIDI, MOD, STM, 669, ULT, ROL, etc., resolving problems with musical software, discussing which software or hardware is best for a particular musical or sound project, and questions concerning sampling or sound patch making. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech Unmoderated discussion of questions concerning programming a particular soundcard, discussing hardware problems such as loss of sound from a particular channel, discussing the pros and cons of a particular sound generation scheme, questions on the compatibility of the soundcard to a particular computer type, operating system, and peripheral such as a CD-ROM drive, questions about the functionality of a particular soundcard, and resolving hardware problems. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy Unmoderated discussion of the pros and cons of soundcards in general. This discussion will possibly overlap some discussions on the other soundcard groups. Also reviews of soundcards and future opinions and tests of soundcards will be placed in this group to be discussed by the users. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc Unmoderated discussion of topics concerning soundcard hardware and software that is outside of the above mentioned topics. These could include upcoming product release or updates for soundcard software. (This group would supersede the existing group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.) JUSTIFICATION: The sudden increase in the volume of messages posted to the group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard has caused the suggestion of splitting the group to appear. Many users on the group have expressed interest in dividing the group because the topics listed on the group are varied tremendously. Having approximately 200+ new messages a day on this group is expensive to some users who must pay for the receiving the usenet group based upon amount of information as well as paying for the amount of time needed to sort through all of the messages. Currently, a heated debate is present on the c.s.i.p.s group which is disrupting those users more interested in new software and problems. They have expressed concern that some are not able to keep up with all of the traffic and decided that by splitting the group, this would allow them to read the messages relevant to their interests pertaining to their soundcard. The comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS is unrecognized usenet group throughout many news servers. Therefore, to avoid confusion and to reorganize the entire soundcard group, this illegal group must be eliminated. Many GUS users are satisfied with removing this group and using the four above mentioned subgroups. There was also concern about where this group should be located, under the comp.syd.ibm.pc hierarchy or comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware hierarchy. It has been decided to leave the soundcard subgroups under the former mentioned hierarchy to prevent any problems with news servers and provides with usenet groups with seven level names. Also, the transition would be less disturbing. RATIONALE: The idea of spliting the group was tossed around the c.s.i.p.s group many times. However, no action was ever taken. It is hoped that finally with the dramatic increase in messages, that this reorganization would make the group more efficient and easier to use. Questions had to be raised about add another group, a c.s.i.p.soundcard.GUS group which would handle all topics specific to the Gravis Ultrasound card. Presently, a majority of messages on the group is concerned with this card. Now with the a 100 message increase because of a heated debate (flame war?) the rational users want the group to be split. This eventually let to a group discussion about splitting up the soundcard group based upon the particular cards discussed, such as the Ultrasound, Soundblaster, Pro Audio Spectrum, etc. However, further discussion revealed that a majority thought that such a split would be short term due to the possibility of an unexpected loss of interest in a particular product. Therefore, because of the prospect of new soundcards being released that would increase the number of messages to the group, the prospect of more pc users of becoming involved in the multimedia revolution, and the steadily increase in messages in this group, it was decided that the group should be split based upon the topics mentioned above. The games group was chosen because a great number of posts on the soundcard group are concerned with how to use a particular soundcard with a particular game and what soundcard is best to use with game. Many users were concerned that the group was overrun with posts concerning how to get a particular game to work with a particular soundcard. They had to try to sift through the 200+ message a day to look for non-game compatibility messages. Therefore, the music group was also chosen because the other large part of message is related to the production of music. These include what programs can use a particular music format, and what programs exist to create programs. Also, in this group is the topic of sounds such as digitizing sound bytes and songs. A separate group was not created because many of the problems and solutions concerning recording or playing back sounds is related to the music production scene. The tech section was chosen because many users occasionally have questions about the technical aspect of soundcard, such as the pros and cons on how a soundcard generates sounds. Also, any hardware problems and compatibility would be discussed. But most importantly, the advocacy group would handle the bulk of the soundcard debate and keep it away from those more concerned with games or music. Finally, the misc group would be concerned with any topic or discussion outside of the above mentioned groups. This group is need to provide some kind of order in the other groups. Posting messages not really relevant to a particular group would cause an increase in traffic where it is not needed. As evident from other groups that have split, the misc section is used often. Possibly, by posting to the misc group, the message could be sent to the proper subgroup.Such a split would try to evenly distribute the messages throughout the sub groups. Most agree that sorting through 50+ is cheaper and less time-consuming. HOW TO VOTE Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these lines and do not change the group names. Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it. If you don't want to vote on a particular group, just leave the space blank. Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts. Then mail the ballot to: [email protected] Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line. -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Ballot (Don't remove this marker) Give your real name here: [Your Vote] Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ] comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech [ ] comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music [ ] comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games [ ] comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy [ ] comp.sys.icm.pc.soundcard.misc (replaces comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard) -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. Each person may vote only once, no matter how many accounts he or she may have. Also, only one ballot will be accepted from any account, no matter how many people may share it. If more than one vote is received >from any person or any account, only the last vote received will be counted. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list. All ballots received are kept in the UVV archives (including "cancelled" and invalid ballots). The vote files are made available to the moderator of news.announce.newgroups on request. They may also, at the discretion of the UVV, be made more widely available if there is a controversy concerning the vote. BOUNCES The following people have submitted valid ballots, but my EMail acknowledgement bounced. They do not need to revote. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Bounce List - No need to revote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected] Mark Kupferman [email protected] Jesus A. de Gregorio INVALID VOTES The following people have submitted invalid ballots and have not superseded them with valid ones. Votes in error ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected] Scott Petersen ! No vote statement in message From [email protected] Tue May 31 20:53:14 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Andrew Solovay) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard Subject: RESULT: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization all groups pass Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: news.groups Date: 31 May 1994 20:51:14 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers (UVV) Lines: 362 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5165 news.groups:105345 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:50177 RESULT unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech passes 223:30 unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music passes 220:32 unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games passes 215:34 unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy passes 213:34 unmoderated group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc (replaces comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard) passes 218:32 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization results - 253 valid votes Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : ------------------------------------------- 223 30 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech 220 32 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music 215 34 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games 213 34 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy 218 32 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc (replaces comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard) 2 invalid votes For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes. There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter. Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, 30 May 1994. This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Vote-taker's address: [email protected] (Andrew Solovay) Group proponent's address: [email protected] (Michael Young Ko) Newsgroups line: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech Technical questions about pc soundcards. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music Music and sound questions using soundcards. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games Questions about using soundcards with games. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy Advocacy for a particular soundcard. comp.sys.icm.pc.soundcard.misc Soundcards in general. CHARTERS (culled from the Call for Votes) comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games Unmoderated discussion of using IBM-PC compatible games with a specific soundcard, resolving compatibility problems of a certain soundcard with a particular game, discussing campaigns at software groups to have more native soundcard support, questions if a particular game supports a certain soundcard, and questions on which soundcard is best for a particular game or all games in general. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music Unmoderated discussion of software that plays back and record sound and music files, music formats such as WAV, VOC, MIDI, MOD, STM, 669, ULT, ROL, etc., resolving problems with musical software, discussing which software or hardware is best for a particular musical or sound project, and questions concerning sampling or sound patch making. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech Unmoderated discussion of questions concerning programming a particular soundcard, discussing hardware problems such as loss of sound from a particular channel, discussing the pros and cons of a particular sound generation scheme, questions on the compatibility of the soundcard to a particular computer type, operating system, and peripheral such as a CD-ROM drive, questions about the functionality of a particular soundcard, and resolving hardware problems. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy Unmoderated discussion of the pros and cons of soundcards in general. This discussion will possibly overlap some discussions on the other soundcard groups. Also reviews of soundcards and future opinions and tests of soundcards will be placed in this group to be discussed by the users. comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc Unmoderated discussion of topics concerning soundcard hardware and software that is outside of the above mentioned topics. These could include upcoming product release or updates for soundcard software. (This group would supersede the existing group comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.) comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard reorganization Final Vote Ack comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc (replaces comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard) -------+ comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy ------+| comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games -----+|| comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.music ----+||| comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.tech ---+|||| ||||| [email protected] Ron Mac Quarrie YYYYY [email protected] Adrian North YYYYY [email protected] Ali E Aydar YYYYY [email protected] Ramesh Fernando YYYYY [email protected] Alan Chiu YYYYY [email protected] Paul Adams NNNNN [email protected] Donald Young YYYYY [email protected] Alexander Granholm YYYYY [email protected] Adrian Kwong YYYYY [email protected] Eugenio Sanchez YYNNN [email protected] Anders M Jorgensen NNNNN [email protected] Andrew Disseldorp YYYYY [email protected] Andy Latto YYYYY [email protected] Stefan Antersberger NYYNY [email protected] Andrian Pervazov YYYY- [email protected] Lee Saito YYYYY [email protected] Andre Simard YYYYY [email protected] Alex Spencer YYYYY [email protected] Audra Russell YYYYY [email protected] James Ault YYYYY [email protected] Anton Vuorilehto YYYYY [email protected] Benjamin Sam Y--YY [email protected] Petteri Bergius YYYYY [email protected] Max Gavrilin YYYYY [email protected] Thomas Boutell YYYYY [email protected] Bolko Rawicz YYYYY [email protected] Robert M Crespo YYYYY [email protected] Bjarni R. Einarsson YYYYY [email protected] Franklin Brodsky YYYYY [email protected] Andrew Bromage YYYYY [email protected] Bruce Hillyer YYYYY [email protected] Bryan A. Woodruff YYYYY [email protected] Ben Turner YYYYY [email protected] Burt Holzman YYYYY [email protected] David Calvin YYYYY [email protected] Mark Kupferman NNNNN [email protected] Guy Elden, Jr. YYYYY [email protected] David Vu YYYYY [email protected] Mike Weavind <[email protected]> YYYYY [email protected] Charles D. Harding YYYYY [email protected] Charles K.F. Wong YYYYY [email protected] The Tramp ([email protected] YYYYY [email protected] Scott McDermott YYNYY [email protected] Chris Mackay NYYNY [email protected] Christopher Mihaly YYY-Y [email protected] Chris Jackson NNNNN [email protected] Chris Unsicker YYYYY [email protected] Craig J. Wright YYYYY [email protected] Christopher A. Kalin YYYYY [email protected] Diane Barlow Close NNNNN [email protected] Cornel Huth YYYYY [email protected] Tim Cote YYYYY [email protected] John Cowles YYYYY [email protected] Kenneth P. Crouch, Jr. NNNNN [email protected] Clinton Thomas YYYYY [email protected] Mikael Nordqvist YYYYY [email protected] David D'Antonio YYYYY [email protected] Kuby Downs YYYYY [email protected] David Crim YYYYY [email protected] David Taylor YYYYY [email protected] David Pedigo YYYYY [email protected] David George Ball YYYYY [email protected] D. Michael Basinger YYYYY [email protected] Dave DeBry YYYYY [email protected] Olivier Devuns NNNNN [email protected] Derek Fawcus YYYYY [email protected] Daniel Hatadi YYYYY [email protected] Dana L Kiehl YYYYY [email protected] D. Michael McIntyre YYYYY [email protected] Brian Dowtin YYYYY [email protected] Rebecca Drayer NNNNN [email protected] david alan taylor YYYYY [email protected] Duane Hargrave YYYYY [email protected] Dan Volpe YYNNY [email protected] Edward Bertsch YYYYY [email protected] Eli Bingham YYYYY [email protected] Ernest Chuang NNNYN [email protected] Jes#s L"pez Amaro YYYYY [email protected] Eric J. Bowersox YYYYY [email protected] Simon R. Hall YYYYY [email protected] Dennis Ernst YYYYY [email protected] Jeffrey Bernstein YYYYY [email protected] Francis Crossen YYYYY [email protected] Sean P. Ryan NNNNN [email protected] Geir A. M. Drange YYYYY gkmaier%[email protected] Greg Maier YYYYY [email protected] Gabriel Moy YYYYY [email protected] Bill Godfrey YY--Y [email protected] Ramon van Gorkom YYYYY [email protected] Ankush Gosain YYYYY [email protected] Jori H{m{l{inen YYYYY [email protected] Jussi Hattula YYYYY [email protected] Bjorn Halvorsen YYYYY [email protected] Jeff Lawson YYYYY HD0022%[email protected] Chip Dunham NNNNN [email protected] Hermann Gartler YYYYY [email protected] Henning Holtschneider YYYYY [email protected] Hoa Ho YYYYY [email protected] Jonathan Holt YYYYY [email protected] Andreas Holzmann YYYYY [email protected] Roger Hakansson NNNNN [email protected] A. Mostert YYYYY [email protected] Kees van der Wal YYYYY [email protected] Jason Brinck YNYYY [email protected] Jan Gajdos YYYYY [email protected] John A. Johnson YYYYY [email protected] Jamie Andrews YYYYY [email protected] Markus Aroharju YYYYY [email protected] Jeff Bryer NNNYN [email protected] John D. Palmer YYYYY [email protected] Jennifer Smith YYYYY [email protected] Joseph Fortt YYYNY [email protected] Jesus A. de Gregorio YYYYY [email protected] John Heng NNNNN [email protected] James Buja YYYYY [email protected] Jim Little YYYYY [email protected] Janne Korkkula YYYYY [email protected] Juan Carlos Leon YYY-Y [email protected] Jose M. daLuz YYYNY [email protected] Jeff Noon YYYNY [email protected] Johan Borkhuis YYYYY [email protected] Dean C. Johnson YYYYY [email protected] Jon Yi YYYYY [email protected] Joshua Appel YYYYY [email protected] Jani Petteri Mattsson YYYYY [email protected] John R. MacWilliamson NNNNN [email protected] James Perrett YYYYY [email protected] Joseph Cochran YYYYY [email protected] John T. Capps YYYYY J_A_Paulin%[email protected] Joseph A. Paulin YYYYY [email protected] Kari E. Hurtta NNNNN [email protected] Ken Hargreaves YYYYY [email protected] Kenneth Herron NYYYY [email protected] Markus Kukkula YYYYY [email protected] LEROY FRANCOIS YYYYY [email protected] Ken Perry YYYYY [email protected] NNNNN [email protected] Kurt Sonnenmoser YYYYY [email protected] Martin Schr"oder YYYYY [email protected] Lyren Brown YYYYY [email protected] Michael Todd Glazier NNNNN [email protected] Louis Kruger YYYYY [email protected] Chung-Cheng Luo ([email protected]) NYYYN [email protected] Urs Manser YYYYY [email protected] Mark West YYYYY [email protected] Martin von Loewis YYYYY [email protected] Mark Charsley YYYYY [email protected] Matt Thul YYYYY [email protected] Martin Andrews YYYY- [email protected] Samer Meshreki YYYYY [email protected] Michael Froomkin YYYYY [email protected] Michael Grubb YYYYY [email protected] Michael Rodgers YYYYY [email protected] Michael Lefevre YYYYY [email protected] DAVID MCFARLING YYYYY [email protected] Marc Meltzer YYYYY [email protected] Maxime Taksar NNNNN [email protected] Erik Renberg YYYYY [email protected] Martin H. Rogers YYYYY [email protected] Marcus Meissner YYYYY [email protected] Asim Mughal YYYYY [email protected] Michael Wells YYYYY [email protected] Jim Blakely YYYYY [email protected] Noel D'Souza YYYYY [email protected] Nick Thompson YYYYY [email protected] N J Dowell YY--- [email protected] Norbert Juhasz YYYYY [email protected] Neal M. Stoughton YYYYY [email protected] Mark Sterling YYYYY [email protected] Paul Cunnell YYYYY [email protected] Robert Osaki YYYYY [email protected] Yanming PENG YYYYY [email protected] Peter Berger YYYYY [email protected] Peter Boyd YYYYY [email protected] Peter Gutmann YYYYY [email protected] Ian Hutton YYYYY [email protected] Alan Pinkerton YYYYY [email protected] Joel Plutchak YYY-Y [email protected] Michael Quinn YYYYY [email protected] Ralph Valentino YYNYY [email protected] GUS RuleZ! YYYYY [email protected] Richard P. Davis YYYYY [email protected] Richard Miller YNNYN [email protected] A. Kilna YYYYY [email protected] Jeff Riegel YYYYY [email protected] Riku Saikkonen YYYYY [email protected] Stan Rohrer YYYYY [email protected] Randall R. Spangler YYYYY [email protected] Arthur Tateishi YYYYY [email protected] Russell Webb YYYYY [email protected] Anssi Saari NNNNN [email protected] Seyed A. Alavizadeh YYYYY [email protected] Bill Arnette YYYYY [email protected] Gavin Scarman YYYYY [email protected] Scott C. Savett YYYYY [email protected] Scott Drennan YYYYY [email protected] Sean Gugler YYYYY [email protected] Shane Borrett YYYYY [email protected] Steve Sheldon YNNNY [email protected] Derek Shemavonian YYYYY [email protected] Simon Crute YYYYY [email protected] Ira Smailer NNNNN [email protected] Marc Moorcroft NNNNN [email protected] Michael Smullen YYYYY [email protected] Mike Mustaine YYYYY [email protected] Tom Sorensen YYYYY [email protected] Dwight Brown NNNNN [email protected] Stein M H Aasmundsen YYYYY [email protected] Colin Ritchie YYYYY [email protected] Stu Labovitz NYY-Y [email protected] Sebastiaan Veijgen YYYYY [email protected] Norman Swartz YYYYY [email protected] James Symon YYYYY [email protected] Thomas D.G. Sandford YYYYY [email protected] Phil Mesnier YYYYY [email protected] Daniel R. Tauritz YYYYY [email protected] Tod Bussert YYYYY [email protected] Tom Branham YYYYY [email protected] Lee Teck Chee YYYYY [email protected] Tom Honles YY-YY [email protected] Trevor Jenkins YYYYY [email protected] Thomas Lee YYYYY [email protected] Thomas G. McWilliams YNNNN [email protected] Thomas Day YYYYY [email protected] Brian Tillman YYYYY [email protected] Tim Gentry YYYYY [email protected] Paul Tiseo YYYYN [email protected] Tobias Wenzel YYYYY [email protected] Todd Brower YYYYY [email protected] [email protected] YYYYY [email protected] Thomas A. Horsley YYYYY [email protected] Thomas Varga YYYYY [email protected] Tord Faeroy YYYYY [email protected] Tomi Aarnio YYYYY [email protected] Terry L. Triplett YYYYY [email protected] Trond Johnsen YYYYY [email protected] J.Waghorn YYYYY [email protected] Ton Truong YYYYY [email protected] Tim Woehr YYYYY [email protected] I.C Yang YNNNY [email protected] Richard R. Urena YYYYY [email protected] YYYYN [email protected] Michael Young Ko YYYYY [email protected] Hal Voges YYYYY [email protected] VP Suhocki YYYYY [email protected] Hal Wadleigh YYYYY [email protected] Thomas Wang NNNNN [email protected] Ward F. Bush NNNNN [email protected] WES SANTEE YYYYY [email protected] Stuart Whitmore YYYYY [email protected] William Mays YNNYY [email protected] Benjamin RYZMAN YYYYY [email protected] Joseph M Zawodny YNYNN Votes in error ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected] Mike McCammon ! No vote statement in message [email protected] Scott Petersen ! No vote statement in message
USENET FACT: Big-8
BIG-8 hierarchies are the 8 traditional top hierarchies of the Usenet. See the following page for more