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General ( comp.graphics )
 
From [email protected] Wed Oct 26 12:58:30 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Steve Hollasch)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,alt.graphics.pixutils,comp.graphics.algorithms,comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.visualization,comp.graphics.research
Subject: RFD: comp.graphics reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 26 Oct 1994 10:33:30 -0400
Organization: acm.org
Lines: 389
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5828 news.groups:121672 comp.graphics:63565 alt.graphics.pixutils:8671 comp.graphics.algorithms:9621 comp.graphics.animation:12835 comp.graphics.visualization:6711 comp.graphics.research:612

    In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four
newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard
organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly
introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, I am proposing a
reorganization of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups
associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.

    This proposal involves several steps -- it's a large task, but I believe
the result will be a more organized and cohesive computer graphics newsgroup
space.  In addition, we'll be able to decide now how we want the namespace to
expand, rather than dickering over it each time a new newsgroup is
introduced.  If you care at all about the organization of computer graphics
newsgroups, I urge you to review this proposal.

    Please note that in order for a common discussion of this proposal to
take place, followups to this proposal are directed to news.groups.  I have
set the Followup-To: line to point to news.groups automatically, and suggest
that readers interested in this discussion subscribe to news.groups for the
duration of this discussion.  This is also necessary because of the number
of newsgroups involved in this proposal -- if you want to be heard, reply to
news.groups.


=== The Affected Newsgroups ===

    alt.graphics.pixutils
        Discussion of graphical images utilities.

    comp.graphics
        The original computer graphics newsgroup.  Currently dedicated to
        miscellaneous discussion.

    comp.graphics.avs
        The AVS scientific visualization application.

    comp.graphics.data-explorer
        The IBM Visualization Data Explorer software product (commonly known
        as DX).  Created August 1993.

    comp.graphics.explorer
        The Iris Explorer software product.  Created June 1992.

    comp.graphics.gnuplot
        The GNU plotting software application.  Created September 1992.

    comp.graphics.opengl
        The OpenGL Application Programmer's Interface.  Created September
        1992.

    comp.graphics.packages.softimage
        The SoftImage software package.  Waiting until the hierarchy is
        decided.

    comp.graphics.raytracing
        Mix of raytracing methods and programs.  Created March 1993.

    comp.graphics.rendering.renderman
        The RenderMan standard, shading language, etc.  Currently in RFD.

    comp.graphics.research
        Research in the field of computer graphics.

    comp.graphics.visualization
        Scientific visualization issues & methods.

    comp.soft-sys.wavefront
        The Wavefront software package.  Created November 1993.

    comp.soft-sys.khoros
        A "complete data exploration and software development environment".

    comp.windows.x.pex
        The PEX protocol and API.  Created January 1992.


=== The Proposed Hierarchy ===

    -  Already in progress.
    +  Newsgroups to be created after this reorganization.

    comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group
        algorithms
        animation
        api/                    / New hierarchy
    +       inventor            / To be created later; Open Inventor
            misc                / New newsgroup
            opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl
            pex                 / From comp.windows.x.pex
        apps/                   / New hierarchy
            misc                / New newsgroup
            gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot
    +       pixutils            / To be created later; image proc. apps
            raytracers          / Split from comp.graphics.raytracing
    +   file-formats            / To be created later; image file formats
        misc                    / From comp.graphics
    +   modeling                / To be created later; object modeling
        packages/               / New hierarchy
            avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs
    -       alias               / In CFV
            data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer
            iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer
            khoros              / From comp.soft-sys.khoros
    -       lightwave           / In CFV
    +       softimage           / To be created later; SOFTIMAGE package
            wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront
        rendering/              / New hierarchy
            misc                / New newsgroup
    -       renderman           / In RFD
            raytracing          / Split from comp.graphics.raytracing
        visualization


=== How Do We Get There From Here? ===

    The first subhierarchy under comp.graphics - comp.graphics.packages - is
already under implicit vote in the comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,
comp.graphics.packages.alias, and comp.graphics.packages.kpt newsgroups.

    This proposal addresses other subhierarchies under comp.graphics to be
created, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies.  It
also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like
comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also
brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup
hierarchy.

    After the hierarchy is established, additional new newsgroups will be
proposed and voted on.  These are included here in order to provide the
reader with a full overview of the final goal.  I will comment on the
suggested newsgroups below.

    That said, here are the guts of the current proposal:

 1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc

    The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a
    couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered
    with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it
    was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics
    hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to
    comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a
    particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them
    from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we
    follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.
    This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place
    to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will
    also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.

2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api

    It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application
    Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a
    variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEX, to
    less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.

2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc

    This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including
    API design discussion in general.  I propose the charter read as
    follows:

    << comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer
    graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in
    any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a
    discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and
    implementations of computer graphics API's in general. >>

2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl

    This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.

2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pex

    I think that a discussion of PEX fits better in the computer
    graphics space alongside other graphics API's such as OpenGL.  PEX
    discussion is somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.
    Another possibility is to split comp.windows.x.pex so that protocol
    discussion remains in comp.windows.x.pex, but API discussion goes to
    comp.graphics.api.pex.  However, it doesn't look like the newsgroup is
    large enough to justify a split.

3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps

    Although the packages hierarchy will be established soon, we should have
    a place for software that is not a package.  Packages usually denote a
    bundled collection of modules, and usually are released by a single
    commercial source.  A lot of graphics software does not fit into this
    description; examples include gnuplot, POV-RAY, paint programs, and the
    like.  This hierarchy allows for discussion of particular applications,
    groups of applications, or computer graphics applications in general.

3b) Create comp.graphics.apps.misc

    This would be the "computer graphics applications in general" group.  It
    might also address issues like interchange standards and queries for
    particular graphics tools and software.  I propose the charter read as
    follows:

    << comp.graphics.apps.misc is intended for discussion of miscellaneous
    computer graphics application software.  This includes availability,
    compilation, usage, and inquiries of existing applications, plus the
    design, concerns and implementation of computer graphics applications in
    general.  It is also intended as a forum for applications not directly
    addressed in any other comp.graphics.apps newsgroup. >>

3c) Rename comp.graphics.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot

    Move the gnuplot newsgroup into the new applications hierarchy.

3d) Move raytracer-specific discussion to comp.graphics.apps.raytracers

    The comp.graphics.raytracing group is aimed ``primarily at the user
    level'' (from the charter).  It's a mix of raytracing application
    discussion and raytracing theory, and also includes discussions of
    radiosity and other rendering methods (also from the charter).  I
    propose that comp.graphics.apps.raytracers be created to hold
    discussions of raytracing software and applications specifically - where
    to get it, what to do with it, examples of usage, problems with
    installation or implementation, and so on.
    Discussion of the theory and implementation of the raytracing algorithm
    will be diverted into .rendering.raytracing, described below.

    Using the original charter written by Dave Cornejo, I propose that the
    comp.graphics.apps.raytracers read as follows:

    << comp.graphics.apps.raytracers is dedicated to the discussion of ray
    tracing software, tools and methods for generating raytraced
    3d graphics.  For example:  ray tracing software (POV-Ray, Vivid, etc.),  
    modeling software *specifically* for generating ray tracing 
    scenes - such as Moray and POVcad - (discussion of general modeling
    software, CAD, etc., is not appropriate), and miscellaneous utilities,
    methods and issues.  Other issues that might be discussed include
    converting between formats, generating complex scene information,
    designing textures, and creating & using fonts.

    Binaries should not be posted to the group.  Pictures should be posted
    to alt.binaries.pictures.misc and executables to the appropriate
    comp.binaries group.  Scene description files ("source") may be posted
    to the group.

    Discussion of raytracing theory and implementation is directed to
    comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing. >>

4a) Establish comp.graphics.packages

    I believe that this will happen anyway, like it or not.  I've held a
    straw poll on this, and got a response of eleven readers, the majority
    favoring a .packages hierarchy.  I think a stronger conclusion is that
    most folks don't care WHAT it's called.  =^)  If
    comp.graphics.packages.alias, comp.graphics.packages.kpt, or
    comp.graphics.packages.lightwave pass (all under vote currently), then
    the hierarchy is implicitly created anyway.

4b) Rename comp.graphics.avs to comp.graphics.packages.avs
4c) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer

    Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.packages hierarchy.

4d) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.packages.iris-explorer

    In keeping with the spirit of the comp.graphics.packages hierarchy.  The
    name change would also help distinguish this group from the
    comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group.

4e) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.packages.wavefront

    With Alias and SoftImage newsgroups in comp.graphics.packages.*, it
    makes sense to move the Wavefront group to keep these things together,
    since they're all the same sort of package.

4f) Rename comp.soft-sys.khoros to comp.graphics.packages.khoros
    
    I initially overlooked this newsgroup because I was not familiar with
    it, and it was suggested that I include this newsgroup in my
    reorganization.  My gut feeling is that it's a sci-viz tool similar to
    AVS or Explorer, and so should be considered with the other packages of
    this nature.  I'd like readers of this newsgroup to comment on whether
    they feel this is an appropriate move.

5a) Establish comp.graphics.rendering hierarchy

    I'm proposing three newsgroups under this hierarchy, which will be
    targeted for newsgroups that deal with producing graphics images.

5b) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc

    For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including
    hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing
    different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  I
    propose the following charter:

    << The comp.graphics.rendering.misc newsgroup is intended for the
    discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in
    a comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for
    comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus
    raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &
    radiosity). >>

5c) Create comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing

    This newsgroup allows for a diversion of raytracing theory and
    implementation from the proposed comp.graphics.apps.raytracers newsgroup
    (renamed from comp.graphics.raytracing).  This group will be targeted
    for discussion of raytracing theory, and for those who write raytracers
    of their own.  It might also serve as a forum for discussing variations
    on raytracing (ray-casting, radiance-like software, and so on).

    I propose the following charter:

    << The comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing newsgroup is intended for the
    discussion of the raytracing algorithm, implementing raytracers, and
    comparison of various implementation schemes and methods.  It is also
    intended as a forum of schemes associated with raytracing, such as
    spatial subdivision, implicit-surface speedups, and Monte-Carlo
    methods. >>

 6) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.

    The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,
    for about two years now.  With the creation of the
    comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused
    newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs
    that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've
    tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename
    this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.  Although an odd approach
    (as opposed to simply removing the group), this directs traffic that
    might have gone to the research newsgroup to the algorithms newsgroup
    (which already exists).  There is also precedent for such a strategy.


=== Possible Future Newsgroups ===

    The following are the newsgroups I think should be discussed and
possibly created AFTER the reorganization is completed.  They are presented
here only to give the reader an idea of the final goal, and to provide
context for some of the moves outlined above.

comp.graphics.api.inventor
    This newsgroup failed almost six months ago, and involved a dispute
    regarding a proposed hierarchy called comp.graphics.library.  This will
    be up for re-discussion again in mid-November.

comp.graphics.pixutils
    Pixel utilities (image manipulation software) are an important topic in
    computer graphics, and are often discussed in the comp.graphics
    newsgroup anyway.  This topic is currently discussed in
    alt.graphics.pixutils.  I think that we would be well-served to
    incorporate this discussion into the comp.graphics hierarchy.

comp.graphics.file-formats
    A significant portion of the comp.graphics newsgroup has always been
    devoted to discussion of graphics file-formats - identifying them,
    reading them, writing them, and converting them.  I think it's time for a
    dedicated newsgroup for this topic.

comp.graphics.modeling
    Since we have an animation group, and I'm proposing a rendering
    hierarchy, why not fill it out with a modeling newsgroup?  Another
    possibility is to create comp.graphics.modeling.misc.

comp.graphics.packages.softimage
    This newsgroup has been suggested already, and fits in with the Alias
    and Wavefront newsgroups.  It is currently on hold until the packages
    hierarchy is established.


===  What Now?  ===

    This proposal is in RFD (Request For Discussion).  This means that it is
put forth to test for support/opposition, and for the proponents of the
proposal to "hammer out the kinks" before it is put to a vote in the CFV
(Call For Votes).  Now is the time for you to comment, object, or question
the proposal.  It's my job to incorporate the suggestions, comments and
opinions so that the proposal reflects the consensus of the readers (and
hence has the best shot at passing).

    I've presented this proposal as a comprehensive scheme, rather than a
series of well-defined phases.  My motivation is that I want to present a
complete and comprehensive picture of what I have in mind.  If most folks
would prefer, we could proceed with a sequence of well-defined stages (e.g.
the api hierarchy, the removal of comp.graphics.research, the apps
hierarchy, creating comp.graphics.file-formats, et cetera).  However, I
think we are better served to discuss the reorganization as a whole.

    I expect this proposal to generate a great deal of discussion.  I've
developed a rather flame-resistant hide over the years, so have at me.  For
the most part, though, I'd like to see a civil and thoughtful discussion
about this so that ideas and comments can flow freely.

                                        Steve Hollasch, [email protected]

From [email protected] Sun Feb 12 22:47:12 1995
Status: RO
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Steve Hollasch)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing
Subject: RFD: comp.graphics reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:23:00 -0500
Organization: none
Lines: 394
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: is1.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6285 news.groups:134124 comp.graphics:70825 comp.graphics.packages.alias:1463 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:2634 comp.graphics.raytracing:10361

=== Summary ===

    This RFD continues a discussion initiated last fall concerning the
reorganization of the comp.graphics hierarchy.  It involves most of the
existing groups under comp.graphics, and several others such as
comp.soft-sys.wavefront and comp.windows.x.pex.  Also included here is a
summary of the results of the straw poll regarding the establishment of a
comp.graphics.packages and/or a comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.


=== Introduction ===

    In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four
newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard
organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly
introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, I am proposing a
reorganization of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups
associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.

    This proposal involves several steps -- it's a large task, but I believe
the result will be a more organized and cohesive computer graphics newsgroup
space.  In addition, we'll be able to decide now how we want the namespace to
expand, rather than dickering over it each time a new newsgroup is
introduced.  If you care at all about the organization of computer graphics
newsgroups, I urge you to review this proposal.

    Please note that in order for a common discussion of this proposal to
take place, followups to this proposal are directed to news.groups.  I have
set the Followup-To: line to point to news.groups automatically, and suggest
that readers interested in this discussion subscribe to news.groups for the
duration of this discussion.

    I'd also like to apologize here for the delay between this post and the
previous ones.  By way of explanation, I got laid off, looked for a new job,
found one, went on vacation, went away for Christmas, moved to Washington,
started the job without any sort of net connection, finally patched one
together, and am still deep in the process of settling in.  I am determined
to keep things moving this time -- thanks to everybody for hanging in there.


=== The Straw Poll Results ===

    The straw poll sent out last fall asked which of the following options
was preferred:

        (a)  Establish a comp.graphics.packages hierarchy to contain all
	     discussion of CG software packages and applications.

	(b)  Establish a comp.graphics.apps hierarchy to contain all
	     discussion of CG software packages and applications.

	(c)  Establish both comp.graphics.packages and comp.graphics.apps,
	     and use whichever is deemed most appropriate on a group-by-group
	     basis.

        (d)  Other.

    There were a total of 39 votes, broken down as follows:

        19 voted to use comp.graphics.apps.
	 8 voted to use comp.graphics.packages.
	 8 voted to use both.
	 3 voted for no change (?).
         1 voted to use comp.graphics.app.

    As a result of this vote, the CG reorg will also propose to move
newsgroups currently located under the .packages hierarchy into the new
.apps hierarchy.


=== The Affected Newsgroups ===

    alt.graphics.pixutils
        Discussion of graphical images utilities.

    comp.graphics
        The original computer graphics newsgroup.  Currently dedicated to
        miscellaneous discussion.

    comp.graphics.apps.softimage
        The SoftImage software package.  Waiting until the hierarchy is
        decided.

    comp.graphics.avs
        The AVS scientific visualization application.

    comp.graphics.data-explorer
        The IBM Visualization Data Explorer software product (commonly known
        as DX).

    comp.graphics.explorer
        The Iris Explorer software product.

    comp.graphics.gnuplot
        The plotting software application.

    comp.graphics.opengl
        The OpenGL Application Programmer's Interface.

    comp.graphics.packages.alias
        Newly created; dedicated to Alias software.

    comp.graphics.packages.lightwave
    	Newly created; dedicated to Lightwave-3D software.

    comp.graphics.raytracing
        Mix of raytracing methods and programs.

    comp.graphics.research
        Research in the field of computer graphics.

    comp.soft-sys.wavefront
        Wavefront software.

    comp.windows.x.pex
        The PEX protocol and API.


=== The Proposed Hierarchy ===

    + Candidate newsgroups (not in this proposal)

    comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group
        algorithms
        animation
        api/                    / New hierarchy
    +       inventor            / Could be created later; Open Inventor
            misc                / New newsgroup
            opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl
            pex                 / From comp.windows.x.pex
        apps/                   / New hierarchy
	    alias               / Alias software, from .packages.alias
	    avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs
            data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer
            iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer
            gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot
            lightwave           / From .packages.lightwave
    +       pixutils            / To be created later; image proc. apps
            raytracers          / Split from comp.graphics.raytracing
    +       softimage           / To be created later; SOFTIMAGE package
            wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront
    +   file-formats            / To be created later; image file formats
        misc                    / From comp.graphics
    +   modeling                / To be created later; object modeling
        rendering/              / New hierarchy
            misc                / New newsgroup
            renderman           / In RFD
            raytracing          / Split from comp.graphics.raytracing
        visualization


=== How Do We Get There From Here? ===

    This proposal addresses the creation of subhierarchies under
comp.graphics, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies.
It also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like
comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also
brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup
hierarchy.

    After the hierarchy is established, additional new newsgroups will be
proposed and voted on.  These are included here in order to provide the
reader with a full overview of the final goal, and are really only intended
to give the reader a sense of what this proposal is all about.  I will
comment on the suggested newsgroups below.

    That said, here are the guts of the current proposal:

 1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc

    The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a
    couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered
    with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it
    was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics
    hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to
    comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a
    particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them
    from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we
    follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.
    This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place
    to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will
    also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.

2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api

    It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application
    Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a
    variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEX, to
    less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.

2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc

    This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including
    API design discussion in general.  I propose the charter read as
    follows:

    << comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer
    graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in
    any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a
    discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and
    implementations of computer graphics API's in general. >>

2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl

    This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.

2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pex

    I think that a discussion of PEX fits better in the computer
    graphics space alongside other graphics API's such as OpenGL.  PEX
    discussion is somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.
    Another possibility is to split comp.windows.x.pex so that protocol
    discussion remains in comp.windows.x.pex, but API discussion goes to
    comp.graphics.api.pex.  However, it doesn't look like the newsgroup is
    large enough to justify such a split.

3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps

    The most popular choice in the straw poll was to use a hierarchy called
    "apps" rather than "packages" for computer graphics software.  Probably
    the strongest reason for this is that a "software package" usually
    denotes mid- to large-scale software, released as a bundled collection
    of modules by a single commercial source.  Computer graphics software
    that falls outside of this definition (POV-RAY, gnuplot, paint programs,
    and the like) would then need another hierarchy to include small-scale
    or single-module software applications.

    Rather than needlessly categorize the types of software, most respondents
    chose instead to create a single hierarchy, called "apps".

3b) Rename c.g.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot
3c) Rename c.g.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs
3d) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer

    Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.

3e) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer

    The name change would also help distinguish this group from the
    comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group.

3f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.app.alias
3g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to comp.graphics.app.lightwave

    Move these newsgroups from the old .packages hierarchy into the .apps
    hierarchy.

3h) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.packages.wavefront

    It makes sense to keep the Alias, Softimage and Wavefront newsgroups
    in the same place, since they are all competing software.

3i) Move raytracer-specific discussion to comp.graphics.apps.raytracers

    The comp.graphics.raytracing group is aimed ``primarily at the user
    level'' (from the charter).  It's a mix of raytracing application
    discussion and raytracing theory, and also includes discussions of
    radiosity and other rendering methods (also from the charter).  I
    propose that comp.graphics.apps.raytracers be created to hold
    discussions of raytracing software and applications specifically - where
    to get it, what to do with it, examples of usage, problems with
    installation or implementation, and so on.  Discussion of the theory
    and implementation of the raytracing algorithm will be diverted into
    .rendering.raytracing, described below.

    Using the original charter written by Andy Wardley, I propose that the
    comp.graphics.apps.raytracers read as follows:

    << comp.graphics.apps.raytracers is dedicated to the discussion of ray
    tracing software, tools and methods for generating raytraced
    3d graphics.  For example:  ray tracing software (POV-Ray, Vivid, etc.),
    modeling software *specifically* for generating ray tracing
    scenes - such as Moray and POVcad - (discussion of general modeling
    software, CAD, etc., is not appropriate), and miscellaneous utilities,
    methods and issues.  Other issues that might be discussed include
    converting between formats, generating complex scene information,
    designing textures, and creating & using fonts.

    Binaries should not be posted to the group.  Pictures should be posted
    to alt.binaries.pictures.misc and executables to the appropriate
    comp.binaries group.  Scene description files ("source") may be posted
    to the group.

    Discussion of raytracing theory and implementation is directed to
    comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing. >>

4a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc

    For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including
    hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing
    different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  I
    propose the following charter:

    << The comp.graphics.rendering.misc newsgroup is intended for the
    discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in
    a comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for
    comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus
    raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &
    radiosity). >>

4b) Create comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing

    This newsgroup allows for a diversion of raytracing theory and
    implementation from the proposed comp.graphics.apps.raytracers newsgroup
    (renamed from comp.graphics.raytracing).  This group will be targeted
    for discussion of raytracing theory, and for those who write raytracers
    of their own.  It might also serve as a forum for discussing variations
    on the raytracing algorithm (ray-casting, radiance-like software, and
    so on).

    I propose the following charter:

    << The comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing newsgroup is intended for the
    discussion of the raytracing algorithm, implementing raytracers, and
    comparison of various implementation schemes and methods.  It is also
    intended as a forum of schemes associated with raytracing, such as
    spatial subdivision, implicit-surface speedups, and Monte-Carlo
    methods.  Readers who wish to discuss particular software applications
    and software are directed to comp.graphics.apps.raytracers. >>

 5) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.

    The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,
    for about two years now.  With the creation of the
    comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused
    newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs
    that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've
    tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename
    this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.

    Although an odd approach (as opposed to simply removing the group), this
    directs traffic that might have gone to the research newsgroup to the
    algorithms newsgroup (which already exists).  There is also precedent
    for such a strategy.


=== Possible Future Newsgroups ===

    The following are the newsgroups I think should be discussed and
possibly created AFTER the reorganization is completed.  They are presented
here only to give the reader an idea of the final goal, and to provide
context for some of the moves outlined above.

comp.graphics.api.inventor
    This newsgroup failed almost a year ago, and involved a dispute
    regarding a proposed hierarchy called comp.graphics.library.  This will
    be up for re-discussion again in mid-November.

comp.graphics.pixutils
    Pixel utilities (image manipulation software) are an important topic in
    computer graphics, and are often discussed in the comp.graphics
    newsgroup anyway.  This topic is currently discussed in
    alt.graphics.pixutils.  I think that we would be well-served to
    incorporate this discussion into the comp.graphics hierarchy.

comp.graphics.file-formats
    A significant portion of the comp.graphics newsgroup has always been
    devoted to discussion of graphics file-formats - identifying them,
    reading them, writing them, and converting them.  I think it's time for a
    dedicated newsgroup for this topic.

comp.graphics.modeling
    Since we have an animation group, and I'm proposing a rendering
    hierarchy, why not fill it out with a modeling newsgroup?  Another
    possibility is to create comp.graphics.modeling.misc.

comp.graphics.apps.softimage
    This newsgroup has been suggested already, and fits in with the Alias
    and Wavefront newsgroups.  It is currently on hold until the packages
    hierarchy is established.


===  What Now?  ===

    This proposal continues the RFD (Request For Discussion).  This means
that it is put forth to test for support and opposition, and for the
proponents of the proposal to "hammer out the kinks" before it's put to a
vote in the CFV (Call For Votes).  Now is the time for you to comment,
object or question the proposal.  I will try to incorporate the suggestions,
comments and opinions so that the proposal best reflects the consensus of
the readers and hence has the best shot at passing.

    I've presented this proposal as a comprehensive scheme, rather than a
series of phases.  My motivation for this is that I want to present a
complete and comprehensive picture of what I have in mind.  If most folks
would prefer, we could proceed with a sequence of well-defined stages (e.g.
the api hierarchy, the removal of comp.graphics.research, the apps
hierarchy, creating comp.graphics.file-formats, et cetera).  However, I
think we are better served to discuss the reorganization as a whole.

    You can follow-up to this pre-RFD proposal in news.groups or privately
to [email protected]

                                        Steve <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Wed Mar  8 21:59:29 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Steve Hollasch)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing
Subject: 3rd RFD: comp.graphics reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 8 Mar 1995 17:58:15 -0500
Organization: none
Lines: 405
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6391 news.groups:138213 comp.graphics:72353 comp.graphics.packages.alias:1797 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:3338 comp.graphics.raytracing:11405

                        REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

    This RFD is only slightly modified from the previous version, and I
anticipate that (barring any sudden conflagrations) the CFV will follow
shortly.  This proposal differs from the previous one in the following:

    (1)  I am using Ken Shrum's suggestion of c.g.api.pexlib instead of
         c.g.api.pex.

    (2)  I have deleted the comp.graphics.raytracing split from this
         proposal.  While I still think it's a worthwhile move, I've
         decided that it doesn't fit well with the primary purpose of this
         reorg, which is to address hierarchy issues in comp.graphics.

    (3)  I've fixed some miscellaneous typos (thanks to Anthony Picciano).

    (4)  I've added comp.graphics.hardware to the list of *suggested* future
         newsgroups.  Lots of comments about the usefulness of this group,
         but outside the scope of this reorg.

    (5)  After discussion about whether the rename from the .explorer
         group to .iris-explorer is really appropriate (or needed), I've
         received enough feedback that this is indeed useful; this portion
         is retained.

    (6)  I've added model ballots for this reorg.  This is pretty much
         the last unresolved issue, and where I'd currently like the most
         feedback.


=== Introduction ===

    In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four
newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard
organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly
introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, I am proposing a
reorganization of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups
associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.

    This proposal involves several steps -- it's a large task, but I believe
the result will be a more organized and cohesive computer graphics newsgroup
space.  In addition, we'll be able to decide now how we want the namespace to
expand, rather than dickering over it each time a new newsgroup is
introduced.  If you care at all about the organization of computer graphics
newsgroups, I urge you to review this proposal.

    Please note that in order for a common discussion of this proposal to
take place, followups to this proposal are directed to news.groups.  I have
set the Followup-To: line to point to news.groups automatically, and suggest
that readers interested in this discussion subscribe to news.groups for the
duration of this discussion.


=== The Affected Newsgroups ===

    alt.graphics.pixutils
        Discussion of graphical images utilities.

    comp.graphics
        The original computer graphics newsgroup.  Currently dedicated to
        miscellaneous discussion.

    comp.graphics.apps.softimage
        The SoftImage software package.  Waiting until the hierarchy is
        decided.

    comp.graphics.avs
        The AVS scientific visualization application.

    comp.graphics.data-explorer
        The IBM Visualization Data Explorer software product (commonly known
        as DX).

    comp.graphics.explorer
        The Iris Explorer software product.

    comp.graphics.gnuplot
        The plotting software application.

    comp.graphics.opengl
        The OpenGL Application Programmer's Interface.

    comp.graphics.packages.alias
        Newly created; dedicated to Alias software.

    comp.graphics.packages.lightwave
        Newly created; dedicated to Lightwave-3D software.

    comp.graphics.raytracing
        Mix of raytracing methods and programs.

    comp.graphics.research
        Research in the field of computer graphics.

    comp.soft-sys.wavefront
        Wavefront software.

    comp.windows.x.pex
        The PEX protocol and the PEXlib API.


=== The Straw Poll Results ===

    The straw poll sent out last fall asked which of the following options
was preferred:

        (a)  Establish a comp.graphics.packages hierarchy to contain all
             discussion of CG software packages and applications.

        (b)  Establish a comp.graphics.apps hierarchy to contain all
             discussion of CG software packages and applications.

        (c)  Establish both comp.graphics.packages and comp.graphics.apps,
             and use whichever is deemed most appropriate on a group-by-group
             basis.

        (d)  Other.

    There were a total of 39 votes, broken down as follows:

        19 voted to use comp.graphics.apps.
         8 voted to use comp.graphics.packages.
         8 voted to use both.
         3 voted for no change (?).
         1 voted to use comp.graphics.app.

    As a result of this vote, the CG reorg will also propose to move
newsgroups currently located under the .packages hierarchy into the new
.apps hierarchy.


=== The Proposed Hierarchy ===

    + Candidate newsgroups (not in this proposal)

    comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group
        algorithms
        animation
        api/                    / New hierarchy
    +       inventor            / Could be created later; Open Inventor
            misc                / New newsgroup
            opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl
            pexlib              / From comp.windows.x.pex
        apps/                   / New hierarchy
            alias               / Alias software, from .packages.alias
            avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs
            data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer
            iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer
            gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot
            lightwave           / From .packages.lightwave
    +       pixutils            / To be created later; image proc. apps
    +       softimage           / To be created later; SOFTIMAGE package
            wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront
    +   file-formats            / To be created later; image file formats
        misc                    / From comp.graphics
    +   modeling                / To be created later; object modeling
        rendering/              / New hierarchy
            misc                / New newsgroup
            renderman           / In RFD
            raytracing          / From comp.graphics.raytracing
        visualization


=== How Do We Get There From Here? ===

    This proposal addresses the creation of subhierarchies under
comp.graphics, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies.
It also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like
comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also
brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup
hierarchy.

    After the hierarchy is established, additional new newsgroups will be
proposed and voted on.  These are included here in order to provide the
reader with a full overview of the final goal, and are really only intended
to give the reader a sense of what this proposal is all about.  I will
comment on the suggested newsgroups below.

    That said, here are the guts of the current proposal:

 1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc

    The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a
    couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered
    with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it
    was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics
    hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to
    comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a
    particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them
    from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we
    follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.
    This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place
    to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will
    also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.

2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api

    It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application
    Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a
    variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEXlib,
    to less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.

2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc

    This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including
    API design discussion in general.  I propose the charter read as
    follows:

    << comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer
    graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in
    any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a
    discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and
    implementations of computer graphics API's in general. >>

2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl

    This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.

2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pexlib

    I think that a discussion of PEXlib fits better in the computer
    graphics space alongside other graphics API's such as OpenGL.  PEXlib
    discussion is somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.
    Another possibility is to split comp.windows.x.pex so that protocol
    discussion remains in comp.windows.x.pex, but API discussion goes to
    comp.graphics.api.pexlib.  However, it doesn't look like the newsgroup
    is large enough to justify such a split.

3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps

    The most popular choice in the straw poll was to use a hierarchy called
    "apps" rather than "packages" for computer graphics software.  Probably
    the strongest reason for this is that a "software package" usually
    denotes mid- to large-scale software, released as a bundled collection
    of modules by a single commercial source.  Computer graphics software
    that falls outside of this definition (POV-RAY, gnuplot, paint programs,
    and the like) would then need another hierarchy to include small-scale
    or single-module software applications.

    Rather than needlessly categorize the types of software, most respondents
    chose instead to create a single hierarchy, called "apps".

3b) Rename c.g.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot
3c) Rename c.g.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs
3d) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer

    Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.

3e) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer

    The name change would also help distinguish this group from the
    comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group.

3f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.apps.alias
3g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to comp.graphics.apps.lightwave

    Move these newsgroups from the old .packages hierarchy into the .apps
    hierarchy.

3h) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.apps.wavefront

    It makes sense to keep the Alias, Softimage and Wavefront newsgroups
    in the same place, since they are all competing software.

4a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc

    For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including
    hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing
    different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  I
    propose the following charter:

    << The comp.graphics.rendering.misc newsgroup is intended for the
    discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in
    a comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for
    comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus
    raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &
    radiosity). >>

4b) Move comp.graphics.raytracing to comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing

    This will move raytracing (and raytracers) discussion under the
    rendering hierarchy.

 5) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.

    The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,
    for about two years now.  With the creation of the
    comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused
    newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs
    that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've
    tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename
    this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.

    Although an odd approach (as opposed to simply removing the group), this
    directs traffic that might have gone to the research newsgroup to the
    algorithms newsgroup (which already exists).  There is also precedent
    for such a strategy.


=== Possible Future Newsgroups ===

    The following are the newsgroups I think should be discussed and
possibly created AFTER the reorganization is completed.  They are presented
here only to give the reader an idea of the final goal, and to provide
context for some of the moves outlined above.

comp.graphics.api.inventor
    This newsgroup failed almost a year ago, and involved a dispute
    regarding a proposed hierarchy called comp.graphics.library.  This will
    be up for re-discussion again in mid-November.

comp.graphics.pixutils
    Pixel utilities (image manipulation software) are an important topic in
    computer graphics, and are often discussed in the comp.graphics
    newsgroup anyway.  This topic is currently discussed in
    alt.graphics.pixutils.  I think that we would be well-served to
    incorporate this discussion into the comp.graphics hierarchy.

comp.graphics.file-formats
    A significant portion of the comp.graphics newsgroup has always been
    devoted to discussion of graphics file-formats - identifying them,
    reading them, writing them, and converting them.  I think it's time for a
    dedicated newsgroup for this topic.

comp.graphics.modeling
    Since we have an animation group, and I'm proposing a rendering
    hierarchy, why not fill it out with a modeling newsgroup?  Another
    possibility is to create comp.graphics.modeling.misc.

comp.graphics.apps.softimage
    This newsgroup has been suggested already, and fits in with the Alias
    and Wavefront newsgroups.  It is currently on hold until the packages
    hierarchy is established.

comp.graphics.hardware
    Discussion of film recorders, VR goggles, stereo goggles, projection
    displays, and the like.


=== Proposed Ballot ===

    The ballot format has not been discussed at all before, so this is
where I would appreciate some feedback right now.  Note that I will have
to submit something to the UVV (Usenet Volunteer Votetakers), and they
may void this whole thing and demand a particular ballot format.  I'll
keep everyone informed how that end is going.

    Assuming that we will be able to dictate the form that the ballot
will take, there are several possible routes we can take.  To recap, the
current reorg looks like this:

    1  Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc

    2  Create the comp.graphics.api hierarchy
       a) Create comp.graphics.api.misc
       b) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl
       c) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pexlib

    3  Create the comp.graphics.apps hierarchy
       a) Rename comp.graphics.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot
       b) Rename comp.graphics.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs
       c) Rename comp.graphics.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer
       d) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer
       e) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.apps.wavefront
       f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.apps.alias
       g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to
	  comp.graphics.apps.lightwave

    4  Complete the move to the comp.graphics.rendering hierarchy
       a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc
       b) Rename comp.graphics.raytracing to comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing

    5  Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms

    One approach is to have a simple YES/NO vote on the whole shebang.
It's certainly the easiest approach, but some may object to the take-it-
or-leave-it style.

    Another possibility is to enumerate every step of this reorg with a
separate vote.  I like this option the least because it opens the possibility
of a half-implemented hierarchy, which I'd like much less than just leaving
things as they are now.

    The final possibility is to clump these into five separate aggregate
votes.  This way, the .api hierarchy may succeed, even though the .apps
hierarchy fails.  I believe that the way I've clumped things, they're all
pretty independent from each other.  (Of course, I'd like them all to pass
=^).

    Comments?


===  What Now?  ===

    This proposal will probably be the last RFD (Request For Discussion).
This means that you've not much time left to add your opinion or debate the
points in this discussion.  Now is the time for you to comment, object or
question the proposal.  I will try to incorporate the suggestions, comments
and opinions so that the proposal best reflects the consensus of the readers
and hence has the best shot at passing.

    You can follow-up to this pre-RFD proposal in news.groups or privately
to [email protected]

                                           Steve <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Tue Apr 18 22:42:26 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing,comp.windows.x.pex,comp.soft-sys.wavefront
Subject: CFV: comp.graphics reorginization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 18 Apr 1995 21:16:01 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 258
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 11 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6641 news.groups:145255 comp.graphics:74881 comp.graphics.packages.alias:2311 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:4857 comp.graphics.raytracing:12967 comp.windows.x.pex:2128 comp.soft-sys.wavefront:3107

                      FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.algorithms
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.misc
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.opengl
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.pexlib
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.alias
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.avs
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.wavefront
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.misc
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.rendering.misc
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing

Newsgroups lines:
comp.graphics.algorithms	Algorithms used in producing computer graphics.
comp.graphics.api.misc	Application Programmer Interface issues, methods.
comp.graphics.api.opengl	The OpenGL 3D application programming interface.
comp.graphics.api.pexlib        The PEXlib application programming interface.
comp.graphics.apps.alias        3-D graphics software from Alias Research.
comp.graphics.apps.avs  The Application Visualization System.
comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer        IBM's Vis. Data Explorer, aka DX.
comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot      The GNUPLOT interactive function plotter.
comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer        The Explorer Modular Vis. Envir. (MVE).
comp.graphics.apps.lightwave    NewTek's Lightwave3D & related topics.
comp.graphics.apps.wavefront    Wavefront software products, problems, etc.
comp.graphics.misc      Computer graphics miscellany.
comp.graphics.rendering.misc    Rendering comparisons, approaches, methods.
comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      Raytracing software, tools and methods.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 May 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions
only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed
group contact Steve Hollasch <[email protected]>.

CHARTERS for the two new groups:

comp.graphics.api.misc
    comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer
    graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in
    any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a
    discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and
    implementations of computer graphics API's in general.

comp.graphics.rendering.misc
    comp.graphics.rendering.misc is intended for the discussion of
    miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in a
    comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for
    comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus
    raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &
    radiosity).  Discussion of specific hardware issues belongs in the
    corresponding comp.sys newsgroup (e.g. PC-specific issues/questions).
    Discussion of a particular application belongs in the comp.graphics.apps
    hierarchy.

RATIONALE

=== Introduction ===

    In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four
newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard
organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly
introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, This proposal will
reorganize of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups
associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.

    This proposal has been in discussion now for over four months, and
represents the contributions of many net readers and contributors to the
comp.graphics area.  It is a large task, but the result will be a more
organized and cohesive newsgroup space for computer graphics topics.  We can
decide now how to organize and grow the namespace, rather than dickering
over it each time the a new newsgroup is proposed.  Please take the time to
vote on this proposal.


=== The Proposed Hierarchy ===

    + Newsgroups affected by this proposal

    comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group
        algorithms
        animation
    +   api/                    / New hierarchy
    +       misc                / New newsgroup
    +       opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl
    +       pexlib              / From comp.windows.x.pex
    +   apps/                   / New hierarchy
    +       alias               / Alias software, from .packages.alias
    +       avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs
    +       data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer
    +       iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer
    +       gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot
    +       lightwave           / From .packages.lightwave
    +       wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront
    +   misc                    / From comp.graphics
        rendering/
    +       misc                / New newsgroup
            renderman           / In RFD
    +       raytracing          / From comp.graphics.raytracing
        research/               / Renamed to comp.graphics.algorithms
        visualization


=== Explanation of the Steps ===

    This proposal addresses the creation of subhierarchies under
comp.graphics, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies.
It also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like
comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also
brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup
hierarchy.

 1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc

    The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a
    couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered
    with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it
    was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics
    hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to
    comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a
    particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them
    from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we
    follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.
    This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place
    to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will
    also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.

2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api

    It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application
    Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a
    variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEXlib,
    to less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.

2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc

    This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including
    API design discussion in general.  The charter is given above.

2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl

    This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.

2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pexlib

    This will move discussion of PEXlib into the computer graphics space
    alongside other graphics APS's such as OpenGL.  PEXlib discussion is
    somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.

3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps

    The most popular choice in the straw poll was to use a hierarchy called
    "apps" rather than "packages" for computer graphics software.  Probably
    the strongest reason for this is that a "software package" usually
    denotes mid- to large-scale software, released as a bundled collection
    of modules by a single commercial source.  Computer graphics software
    that falls outside of this definition (POV-RAY, gnuplot, paint programs,
    and the like) would then need another hierarchy to include small-scale
    or single-module software applications.

    Rather than needlessly categorize the types of software, most respondents
    chose instead to create a single hierarchy, called "apps".

3b) Rename c.g.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot
3c) Rename c.g.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs
3d) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer

    Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.

3e) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer

    The name change would also help distinguish this group from the
    comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group (also endorsed by respondents
    who read these groups).

3f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.apps.alias
3g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to comp.graphics.apps.lightwave

    Move these newsgroups from the old .packages hierarchy into the .apps
    hierarchy.

3h) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.apps.wavefront

    This mores wafefront into the comp.graphics hierarchy alongside apps
    like Alias (and soon SoftImage).

4a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc

    For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including
    hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing
    different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  The
    charter is given above.

4b) Move comp.graphics.raytracing to comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing

    This will move raytracing (and raytracers) discussion under the
    rendering hierarchy.

 5) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.

    The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,
    for about two years now.  With the creation of the
    comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused
    newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs
    that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've
    tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename
    this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.

    Although an odd approach (as opposed to simply removing the group), this
    directs traffic that might have gone to the research newsgroup to the
    algorithms newsgroup (which already exists).  There is also precedent
    for such a strategy.


HOW TO VOTE

Send MAIL to:   [email protected]
Just replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.

It would be apprciated by the votetaker if you did NOT forward the entire
CFV back; this mail is archived and I really don't need several hundred
copies of the CFV on my system.

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
comp.graphics reorg Ballot    <CGR-0001> (Don't remove this marker)

Please give your real name here:

[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  comp.graphics.algorithms (replaces c.g.research)
[         ]  comp.graphics.api.misc (new)
[         ]  comp.graphics.api.opengl (replaces c.g.opengl)
[         ]  comp.graphics.api.pexlib (replaces comp.windows.x.pex)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.alias (replaces c.g.packages.alias)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.avs (replaces c.g.avs)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer (replaces c.g.data-explorer)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot (replaces c.g.gnuplot)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer (replaces c.g.explorer)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.lightwave (replaces c.g.packages.lightwave)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.wavefront (replaces comp.soft-sys.wavefront)
[         ]  comp.graphics.misc (replaces comp.graphics)
[         ]  comp.graphics.rendering.misc (new)
[         ]  comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing (replaces c.g.raytracing)
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.

From [email protected] Wed Apr 26 19:38:41 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing,comp.windows.x.pex,comp.soft-sys.wavefront
Subject: 2nd CFV: comp.graphics reorginization
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 26 Apr 1995 15:22:09 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 269
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 11 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6705 news.groups:146415 comp.graphics:75372 comp.graphics.packages.alias:2383 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:5126 comp.graphics.raytracing:13288 comp.windows.x.pex:2163 comp.soft-sys.wavefront:3171

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.algorithms
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.misc
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.opengl
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.pexlib
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.alias
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.avs
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.wavefront
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.misc
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.rendering.misc
          unmoderated group comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing

Newsgroups lines:
comp.graphics.algorithms	Algorithms used in producing computer graphics.
comp.graphics.api.misc	Application Programmer Interface issues, methods.
comp.graphics.api.opengl	The OpenGL 3D application programming interface.
comp.graphics.api.pexlib	The PEXlib application programming interface.
comp.graphics.apps.alias	3-D graphics software from Alias Research.
comp.graphics.apps.avs	The Application Visualization System.
comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer	IBM's Vis. Data Explorer, aka DX.
comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot	The GNUPLOT interactive function plotter.
comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer	The Explorer Modular Vis. Envir. (MVE).
comp.graphics.apps.lightwave	NewTek's Lightwave3D & related topics.
comp.graphics.apps.wavefront	Wavefront software products, problems, etc.
comp.graphics.misc	Computer graphics miscellany.
comp.graphics.rendering.misc	Rendering comparisons, approaches, methods.
comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing	Raytracing software, tools and methods.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 May 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions
only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed
group contact Steve Hollasch <[email protected]>.

CHARTERS for the two new groups:

comp.graphics.api.misc
    comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer
    graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in
    any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a
    discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and
    implementations of computer graphics API's in general.

comp.graphics.rendering.misc
    comp.graphics.rendering.misc is intended for the discussion of
    miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in a
    comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for
    comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus
    raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &
    radiosity).  Discussion of specific hardware issues belongs in the
    corresponding comp.sys newsgroup (e.g. PC-specific issues/questions).
    Discussion of a particular application belongs in the comp.graphics.apps
    hierarchy.

RATIONALE

=== Introduction ===

    In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four
newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard
organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly
introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, This proposal will
reorganize of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups
associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.

    This proposal has been in discussion now for over four months, and
represents the contributions of many net readers and contributors to the
comp.graphics area.  It is a large task, but the result will be a more
organized and cohesive newsgroup space for computer graphics topics.  We can
decide now how to organize and grow the namespace, rather than dickering
over it each time the a new newsgroup is proposed.  Please take the time to
vote on this proposal.


=== The Proposed Hierarchy ===

    + Newsgroups affected by this proposal

    comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group
        algorithms
        animation
    +   api/                    / New hierarchy
    +       misc                / New newsgroup
    +       opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl
    +       pexlib              / From comp.windows.x.pex
    +   apps/                   / New hierarchy
    +       alias               / Alias software, from .packages.alias
    +       avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs
    +       data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer
    +       iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer
    +       gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot
    +       lightwave           / From .packages.lightwave
    +       wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront
    +   misc                    / From comp.graphics
        rendering/
    +       misc                / New newsgroup
            renderman           / In RFD
    +       raytracing          / From comp.graphics.raytracing
        research/               / Renamed to comp.graphics.algorithms
        visualization


=== Explanation of the Steps ===

    This proposal addresses the creation of subhierarchies under
comp.graphics, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies.
It also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like
comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also
brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup
hierarchy.

 1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc

    The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a
    couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered
    with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it
    was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics
    hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to
    comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a
    particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them
    from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we
    follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.
    This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place
    to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will
    also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.

2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api

    It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application
    Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a
    variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEXlib,
    to less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.

2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc

    This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including
    API design discussion in general.  The charter is given above.

2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl

    This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.

2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pexlib

    This will move discussion of PEXlib into the computer graphics space
    alongside other graphics APS's such as OpenGL.  PEXlib discussion is
    somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.

3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps

    The most popular choice in the straw poll was to use a hierarchy called
    "apps" rather than "packages" for computer graphics software.  Probably
    the strongest reason for this is that a "software package" usually
    denotes mid- to large-scale software, released as a bundled collection
    of modules by a single commercial source.  Computer graphics software
    that falls outside of this definition (POV-RAY, gnuplot, paint programs,
    and the like) would then need another hierarchy to include small-scale
    or single-module software applications.

    Rather than needlessly categorize the types of software, most respondents
    chose instead to create a single hierarchy, called "apps".

3b) Rename c.g.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot
3c) Rename c.g.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs
3d) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer

    Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.

3e) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer

    The name change would also help distinguish this group from the
    comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group (also endorsed by respondents
    who read these groups).

3f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.apps.alias
3g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to comp.graphics.apps.lightwave

    Move these newsgroups from the old .packages hierarchy into the .apps
    hierarchy.

3h) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.apps.wavefront

    This mores wafefront into the comp.graphics hierarchy alongside apps
    like Alias (and soon SoftImage).

4a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc

    For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including
    hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing
    different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  The
    charter is given above.

4b) Move comp.graphics.raytracing to comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing

    This will move raytracing (and raytracers) discussion under the
    rendering hierarchy.

 5) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.

    The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,
    for about two years now.  With the creation of the
    comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused
    newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs
    that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've
    tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename
    this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.

    Although an odd approach (as opposed to simply removing the group), this
    directs traffic that might have gone to the research newsgroup to the
    algorithms newsgroup (which already exists).  There is also precedent
    for such a strategy.


HOW TO VOTE

You must send MAIL to [email protected]  (Posting in a newsgroup does not
constitute a vote.)  Just replying to this article should work unless you
are reading it on a mailing list, but please check the TO address.

Please remove text before the marker line below.  Voting mail is archived
by the votetakers, and hundreds of copies of the entire CFV wastes space.

Type your vote of YES or NO for each group on the line for that group.
If you do not wish to vote for a group, simply leave that line alone.
You need not worry about quoting characters which your mailer inserts.
Please type YES or NO, not Y, N, or X.  The votes are tabulated by a
program, and a valid vote is defined as the word YES or NO on the same
line as the name of the group.

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
comp.graphics reorg Ballot    <CGR-0002> (Don't remove this marker)

Please give your real name here:

[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  comp.graphics.algorithms (replaces c.g.research)
[         ]  comp.graphics.api.misc (new)
[         ]  comp.graphics.api.opengl (replaces c.g.opengl)
[         ]  comp.graphics.api.pexlib (replaces comp.windows.x.pex)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.alias (replaces c.g.packages.alias)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.avs (replaces c.g.avs)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer (replaces c.g.data-explorer)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot (replaces c.g.gnuplot)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer (replaces c.g.explorer)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.lightwave (replaces c.g.packages.lightwave)
[         ]  comp.graphics.apps.wavefront (replaces comp.soft-sys.wavefront)
[         ]  comp.graphics.misc (replaces comp.graphics)
[         ]  comp.graphics.rendering.misc (new)
[         ]  comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing (replaces c.g.raytracing)
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.

comp.graphics reorg Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                           Catherine Devine

From [email protected] Sat May 13 00:05:46 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing,comp.windows.x.pex,comp.soft-sys.wavefront
Subject: RESULT: comp.graphics reorginization passes
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 12 May 1995 16:30:59 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 309
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]><[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6824 news.groups:149103 comp.graphics:76633 comp.graphics.packages.alias:2582 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:5821 comp.graphics.raytracing:13884 comp.windows.x.pex:2201 comp.soft-sys.wavefront:3329

                                RESULT
            comp.graphics reorg results - 199 valid votes

 Yes   No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
 172   11 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.algorithms
					(replaces c.g.research)
 163   15 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.api.misc (new)
 163   14 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.api.opengl
					(replaces c.g.opengl)
 150   20 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.api.pexlib
					(replaces comp.windows.x.pex)
 159   14 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.alias
					(replaces c.g.packages.alias)
 152   16 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.avs
					(replaces c.g.avs)
 154   14 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer
					(replaces c.g.data-explorer)
 159   15 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot
					(replaces c.g.gnuplot)
 158   15 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer
					(replaces c.g.explorer)
 157   16 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
					(replaces c.g.packages.lightwave)
 159   15 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.wavefront
					(replaces comp.soft-sys.wavefront)
 170   19 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.misc
					(replaces comp.graphics)
 165   19 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.rendering.misc (new)
 165   17 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing
					(replaces c.g.raytracing)
   3 invalid votes

For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO)
votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.  If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the groups shortly thereafter.

Newsgroups lines:
comp.graphics.algorithms        Algorithms used in producing computer graphics.
comp.graphics.api.misc  Application Programmer Interface issues, methods.
comp.graphics.api.opengl        The OpenGL 3D application programming interface.
comp.graphics.api.pexlib        The PEXlib application programming interface.
comp.graphics.apps.alias        3-D graphics software from Alias Research.
comp.graphics.apps.avs  The Application Visualization System.
comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer        IBM's Vis. Data Explorer, aka DX.
comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot      The GNUPLOT interactive function plotter.
comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer        The Explorer Modular Vis. Envir. (MVE).
comp.graphics.apps.lightwave    NewTek's Lightwave3D & related topics.
comp.graphics.apps.wavefront    Wavefront software products, problems, etc.
comp.graphics.misc      Computer graphics miscellany.
comp.graphics.rendering.misc    Rendering comparisons, approaches, methods.
comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      Raytracing software, tools and methods.

Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 10 May 1995.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions
only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed
group contact Steve Hollasch <[email protected]>.

CHARTERS for the two new groups:

comp.graphics.api.misc
    comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer
    graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in
    any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a
    discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and
    implementations of computer graphics API's in general.

comp.graphics.rendering.misc
    comp.graphics.rendering.misc is intended for the discussion of
    miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in a
    comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for
    comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus
    raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &
    radiosity).  Discussion of specific hardware issues belongs in the
    corresponding comp.sys newsgroup (e.g. PC-specific issues/questions).
    Discussion of a particular application belongs in the comp.graphics.apps
    hierarchy.

comp.graphics reorg Final Vote Ack


comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing (replaces c.g.raytracing) ----------------+
                          comp.graphics.rendering.misc (new) ---------------+|
                 comp.graphics.misc (replaces comp.graphics) --------------+||
comp.graphics.apps.wavefront (repl  comp.soft-sys.wavefront) -------------+|||
comp.graphics.apps.lightwave (repl   c.g.packages.lightwave) ------------+||||
    comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer (replaces c.g.explorer) -----------+|||||
           comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot (replaces c.g.gnuplot) ----------+||||||
comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer (repl    c.g.data-explorer) ---------+|||||||
                   comp.graphics.apps.avs (replaces c.g.avs) --------+||||||||
      comp.graphics.apps.alias (replaces c.g.packages.alias) -------+|||||||||
      comp.graphics.api.pexlib (replaces comp.windows.x.pex) ------+||||||||||
              comp.graphics.api.opengl (replaces c.g.opengl) -----+|||||||||||
                                comp.graphics.api.misc (new) ----+||||||||||||
            comp.graphics.algorithms (replaces c.g.research) ---+|||||||||||||
                                                                ||||||||||||||
[email protected]                     Dale Schofield YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
@hermes.dra.hmg.gb:[email protected]               Gary Payne YYYYYYYYYYYYNN
[email protected]                                   Alan Boucek YNYNY--NYYY---
[email protected]                         Andreas Dilger YY----YYY--YYY
[email protected]                       Ade The Shade YYY-----YY-YYY
[email protected]                      Alex P. Madarasz, Jr. YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                      Alexandre Soler Martinez NYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                        Alexander Schulze YYYYY------YYY
[email protected]                              Vincent Archer NNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[email protected]                         Arijan Siska YYYY-------YYY
[email protected]                       Harald Backert YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            Ed Bailey YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            Richard "dr." Baily YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Balaji YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                    David Barr YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Barry Nathan YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Brian Dady YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          William J. Duncan YY-----Y---YYY
[email protected]                               Bengt Larsson YYYYYYYYYYYNNY
[email protected]                                  B.J. Herbison -Y--YYYYYY-YY-
[email protected]                         David Blythe NNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[email protected]                          Robert Stewart ---N--------Y-
[email protected]                        Edward L. Bolson YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             Mark Bolstad YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                               Brian D Hillegass YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                        Buckley Collum YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                Scott Carles YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Joachim Lous YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                Clark K. Gaylord Y----NNNNN-Y--
[email protected]                     Jacques Chanel YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            Christian Reisel YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                           Christopher Doehlert YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                 James H. Cloos Jr. YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Chris Stamper YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                        Christopher D Lund YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Craig E. Groeschel YYYNYYYYYYYYNN
[email protected]                      K. CROUCH --------------
[email protected]                                Christopher Ward YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                Curtis White YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                 Stephen R. Phillips YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Daniel S. Lewart YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Darlene E. Hadrika YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             David Heath YYYYYY-YYYYYYY
[email protected]                             David Brookshire YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Malcolm E. Davis YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]          Francisco X DeJesus YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                               Philip Delaquess YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             Dev Mannemela YYY-Y-----YYYY
[email protected]                             David H. Friedman YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            Daniel J. McCoy YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                    D. Keith Arbuckle YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                         Ayzer Meir-danie YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            David Mosher YNYYYYYYYYYNNY
[email protected]                            Donna Marie Calcote YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                Don Dovey Y-YYYYYYYYY---
[email protected]                     Christopher P. Stewart YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             Dave O'Leary YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                 David Ezekiel Stabosz YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Paul Eggert YYYNYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]          David Anton Menendez YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Emery Lapinski YYNNYNY-YNNYYY
[email protected]                                        Mark Hall YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]          Fredie J. Layberge ----Y----YYYYY
[email protected]                                     Francis Uy -----------Y--
[email protected]                         Lloyd Eldred YY--YYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                           Gavin Bell YYYNYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                         Dirk Van Gelder YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]              Abraham V. George YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                 scott goeken Y-------------
[email protected]                         Himanshu Gohel YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Greg Couch YNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[email protected]                                    Dave DeBry YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Gudjon Mar Gudjonsson YYYNYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Gunnar Kaiser YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]    WILLEM VAN SCHAIK (INTERNET: GWILLEM Y-Y----Y---YYY
[email protected]                  Ralf Helbing YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             Barett McGavock YNYYYYYYYYYYNY
[email protected]                              J.J. Hoesing YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Steve Hollasch YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                     Hartmut W. Malzahn YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                        Ian Burrell YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             Juan J. Buhler YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Jaime Castells YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                               Jeffrey C. Jones YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                  Jeff Murphy YNNNNNYYNNNYNY
[email protected]                      Jeffrey David Cohen YNYYYYYYYYYNNY
[email protected]    James D. Almand <[email protected] NYYYYYYYYYYYNN
[email protected]            James Duncan Davidson YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              David Jenkins YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                        Jeremy Mears YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                         Kouhei Matsuda YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Joe Geigel YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Jonathan Robert Gross YYY-YYY-Y-YYYY
[email protected]                             John Stickland YYY----Y---YYY
[email protected]                              Jeff Hodgson YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Jason D Howat YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                   John E. Howland YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            James Dale Polk Y-Y-Y--Y--YYYY
[email protected]                                  Jim Jewett --YYYYYYYYYY-Y
[email protected]                                       Joel Bagley YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Trevor Tymchuk YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                         Sudish Joseph YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Jim Atkinson YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                      John R. MacWilliamson NNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[email protected]                                Keith R. Crosley YYYYNNNNNNNYNN
[email protected]                                      Kevin Bagley YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Kevin C. Marshall YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                               Kim DeVaughn YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                Kimmo Ketolainen +358 40 500 2957 YYYYYYYYYYYYYN
[email protected]                      Khantipol Kasemsant YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Kjetil Vatne YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Karl Schultz YYYY-------YYY
[email protected]                                  Lance F. Barker YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                         Lantz Rowland YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Jon Leech YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]            I'm too Sexy For Your Glenn YYY----YYYYNYY
[email protected]                                 Mick Brown YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                               Robert Lipman YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                  Martin Schr\"oder YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Lisa Traub YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                 Nathan Loofbourrow NYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                 Thomas Loop YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Luis A. Rodriguez --------------
[email protected]                  Lutz Donnerhacke YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Ian MacPhedran -YYYYYYYYYYNYY
[email protected]                 Markus Porto YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                    Markus Schuh YYYYNNNNNNNYYY
[email protected]                      Marvin Landis YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            Zeke M. Towson NNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[email protected]                       Matthias LANG YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Mattias Ernelli YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                  Daniel R. McLachlan YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                               Mark Ball YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            Michel Jonas ----------Y---
[email protected]                               Mark Kilgard NNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[email protected]                                 Matt Pharr YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                  M Mike Taksar --------------
[email protected]                   Morten Bro-Nielsen YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Mark Adams YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Nathaniel Stitt NYNNNNNNNNYYYN
[email protected]                              Norbert G. Hanke YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                           Nick Ingegneri NYNNNNNNNNNNYN
[email protected]                      Martin A. Childs -----------YYY
[email protected]                                Olaf Klein YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             david parsons -----------N--
[email protected]                                   M. Otto --------------
[email protected]                    Samuel S. Paik YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                   Jean-Francois Panisset YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            Amit Parghi YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Philip J. Decker YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                        Philippe F. Bertrand YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Phil Rogers  YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                               Anthony Picciano YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                         Pierre Uszynski YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                               Paul Martz YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                         Paul S. Strauss YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Daniel Quinlan YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Dirk Reiners YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Ryan Waldron YNNNNNNNNNNYNN
[email protected]                                 Richard Miller YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            Riku Saikkonen YYY----Y---YYY
[email protected]                                Randy Rohrer YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             J. Rufinus YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          S.M.Sabri S.M.Ismail YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Steven C. Dollins YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                Daniel Martinez YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                Sam De Backer YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Scott D. Senften YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                       Fotis Riktos YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Lynda L. True YYYYYYYYYYYNYY
[email protected]                                 Ken Shrum YYYY-------YYY
[email protected]                         Stephen Joseph Smith --------------
[email protected]                            Catherine Devine YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             Stephen Eric Blake YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Jacob Sparre Andersen YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Shrirang Nene YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Dwight Brown NNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[email protected]                                Steve Rogers YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]               Javier Ferrer Martin YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                         Christina Craft Y---------NNNN
[email protected]                              Ted R. Schuh YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Tom Lane YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Ryan Houle YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Michael Tiemann YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                    Timothy M. Carnahan YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Tim Day YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Tomas Willis YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                            Samu Mielonen YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                             Branko Collin YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                        Brent Beach YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                                D. Scott Urban YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                          Risto Widenius YNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[email protected]                             Wim Driessens ----Y---YYYYYY
[email protected]    Wolfgang Schild YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                              Mason Woo YNNNYYYYYYYNYY
[email protected]                Walter J. Turberville (III) ---------Y-NY-
[email protected]          Guenter Wunner Y----------Y--
[email protected]          Kent Paul Dolan a.k.a. Xanthian YYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[email protected]                        Xavier Stonestreet YY---------Y--


Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                     Bob Stewart
   ! No vote statement in message
[email protected]                                                Jason Hough
   ! No vote statement in message
[email protected]                                                    Mark Foster
   ! No vote statement in message

 
USENET FACT: Lurker
A person who reads/browses newsgroups but does not actively post.