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Programming ( comp.sys.amiga.programmer )
 
From [email protected] Tue Sep 19 17:47:43 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Mikko Makela <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: RFD: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 19 Sep 1995 21:47:37 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 74
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7569 news.groups:167766 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:76871 comp.sys.amiga.misc:97951

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
          unmoderated group comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

This a formal Request For Discussion concerning the creation of a new
unmoderated newsgroup called comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic.
This is not a Call For Votes (CFV).  Please do not vote at this time.

RATIONALE:

There currently exists only one newsgroup for Amiga programmers,
named comp.sys.amiga.programmer. This group though has traditionally
been mainly used by programmers of other than basic languages, like
C, E and assembler. This means that many people would find it very
irritating, if suddenly comp.sys.amiga.programmer would be filled
with messages concerning basic languages. There exists atleast
two very active mailinglists for basic languages, so linking these
lists to comp.sys.amiga.programmer would surely irritate "old users"
of the group. Only small fraction of messages in comp.sys.amiga.programmers
concerns basics currently.

On the other hand, separation of all languages to their own specific
group would seem to be too much and the volume of most of these
groups would be low.

Here are some numbers:

list/group                  average messages/day lately
comp.sys.amiga.programmer         50
ace-list   (ACE basic)            5-15
amos-list  (AMOS basic)           13
blitz-list (Blitz basic)          5

These are not the only basics for Amiga, but should be to my knowledge
the most used ones. As one can calculate, the summarized traffic
doesn't exceed 100 messages/day (which is considered in general to
be too much for one newsgroup), but considering the fact, that Amigas
have been out of production over an year now and the new ones have just
started to arrive in shops, the traffic is quaranteed to go up. Also
traffic in newsgroups tends to go higher than in mailing-lists.

SUMMARY OF DISCUSSION SO FAR:

All participants seemed to like the idea, as no objections were posted.

CHARTER: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic is meant for all basic languages
which are available for Amiga range of computers. Also all mailing-
lists, which specify to same area, would be allowed to link
their messages with the group.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

A Call for Votes will be posted within 7-10 days of this posting, on
approval of the news.announce.newsgroups moderator.  This vote will
be administered by a neutral third party and will follow the rules
outlined in the Newsgroup Creation Guidelines.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD is being posted to the following newsgroups:

comp.sys.amiga.programmer
comp.sys.amiga.misc
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups

Discussion of this RFD will take place on news.groups.  All
follow-up posts should be made to news.groups.
-- 
Proposed by:         Mikko Makela  <[email protected]>
Mentor:		     Richard Miller <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Fri Oct 27 00:53:30 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Steve Bonine <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: CFV: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic
Followup-To: poster
Date: 27 Oct 1995 04:52:39 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 116
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 18 Nov 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Steve Bonine <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7773 news.groups:171570 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:79054 comp.sys.amiga.misc:101438

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
          unmoderated group comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

Newsgroups line:
comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic	Amiga's various basic languages.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 17 Nov 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Mikko Makela <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Steve Bonine <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

There currently exists only one newsgroup for Amiga programmers,
named comp.sys.amiga.programmer. This group though has traditionally
been mainly used by programmers of other than basic languages, like
C, E and assembler. This means that many people would find it very
irritating, if suddenly comp.sys.amiga.programmer would be filled
with messages concerning basic languages. There exists atleast
three active mailinglists for basic languages, so linking these
lists to comp.sys.amiga.programmer would surely irritate "old users"
of the group.

On the other hand, separation of all languages to their own specific
group would seem to be too much and the volume of most of these
groups would be low.

Here are some numbers:

list/group                  average messages/day lately
comp.sys.amiga.programmer         50
ace-list   (ACE basic)            5-15
amos-list  (AMOS basic)           13
blitz-list (Blitz basic)          5

These are not the only basics for Amiga, but should be to my knowledge
the most used ones. As one can calculate, the summarized traffic
doesn't exceed 100 messages/day (although it does that periodically),
but considering the fact, that Amigas have been out of production
over an year now and the new ones have just started to arrive in shops,
the traffic is quaranteed to go up. Also traffic in newsgroups tends
to go higher than in mailing-lists. I would also like to clearly point out,
that this group isn't suggested so much as a split of comp.sys.amiga.programmer
but because there is a need for co-operative group for basic programmers
and directing the traffic to some existing group would surely irriate it's
current users as summarized traffic is quite high and growing.

CHARTER: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic is meant for all basic languages which
are available for Amiga range of computers. Also all mailinglists,
which specify to same area, would be allowed to link their messages
with the group.

Mailing-list to be gatewayed with the newsgroup are:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

END CHARTER.

HOW TO VOTE:

You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:

      [email protected]

Check the address before you mail your vote.  Your mail message must contain
one and only one of the following vote statements for each group:

      I vote YES on comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic
      I vote NO on comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

You can also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL.  These votes are not counted in the
results, and CANCEL removes your name from the vote listing in the result.

Names are required for this vote.  The counting software will extract your name
from the mail message if your mailer is properly configured; if your mail
software does not indicate your real name, you must include the following
statement and add your name (on the same line).

     Voter name:

Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions may mean that
your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of
your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  IT'S YOUR
RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE YOUR VOTE IS REGISTERED CORRECTLY.

If you wish to change your vote, simply vote again from the same account;
duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent vote.

THIS IS NOT A SECRET VOTE.  Names, addresses, and votes will be published in
a RESULTS article in the same newsgroups in which this CFV appears.

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons
who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from disinterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute this CFV.  If you must,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing pre-marked or edited copies of this CFV is vote fraud. When in
doubt, ask the votetaker.

Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One person, one vote.  Votes must be
mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded or proxy
votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW servers are considered to be
anonymous votes.

DISTRIBUTION:

In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to the mailing lists:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

From [email protected] Sun Nov  5 18:01:50 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Steve Bonine <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: 2nd CFV: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 5 Nov 1995 23:01:46 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 120
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 18 Nov 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Steve Bonine <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7821 news.groups:172779 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:79618 comp.sys.amiga.misc:102503

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
          unmoderated group comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

Newsgroups line:
comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic	Amiga's various basic languages.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 17 Nov 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Mikko Makela <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Steve Bonine <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

There currently exists only one newsgroup for Amiga programmers,
named comp.sys.amiga.programmer. This group though has traditionally
been mainly used by programmers of other than basic languages, like
C, E and assembler. This means that many people would find it very
irritating, if suddenly comp.sys.amiga.programmer would be filled
with messages concerning basic languages. There exists atleast
three active mailinglists for basic languages, so linking these
lists to comp.sys.amiga.programmer would surely irritate "old users"
of the group.

On the other hand, separation of all languages to their own specific
group would seem to be too much and the volume of most of these
groups would be low.

Here are some numbers:

list/group                  average messages/day lately
comp.sys.amiga.programmer         50
ace-list   (ACE basic)            5-15
amos-list  (AMOS basic)           13
blitz-list (Blitz basic)          5

These are not the only basics for Amiga, but should be to my knowledge
the most used ones. As one can calculate, the summarized traffic
doesn't exceed 100 messages/day (although it does that periodically),
but considering the fact, that Amigas have been out of production
over an year now and the new ones have just started to arrive in shops,
the traffic is quaranteed to go up. Also traffic in newsgroups tends
to go higher than in mailing-lists. I would also like to clearly point out,
that this group isn't suggested so much as a split of comp.sys.amiga.programmer
but because there is a need for co-operative group for basic programmers
and directing the traffic to some existing group would surely irriate it's
current users as summarized traffic is quite high and growing.

CHARTER: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic is meant for all basic languages which
are available for Amiga range of computers. Also all mailinglists,
which specify to same area, would be allowed to link their messages
with the group.

Mailing-list to be gatewayed with the newsgroup are:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

END CHARTER.

HOW TO VOTE:

You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:

      [email protected]

Check the address before you mail your vote.  Your mail message must contain
one and only one of the following vote statements for each group:

      I vote YES on comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic
      I vote NO on comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

You can also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL.  These votes are not counted in the
results, and CANCEL removes your name from the vote listing in the result.

Names are required for this vote.  The counting software will extract your name
from the mail message if your mailer is properly configured; if your mail
software does not indicate your real name, you must include the following
statement and add your name (on the same line).

     Voter name:

Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions may mean that
your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of
your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  IT'S YOUR
RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE YOUR VOTE IS REGISTERED CORRECTLY.

If you wish to change your vote, simply vote again from the same account;
duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent vote.

THIS IS NOT A SECRET VOTE.  Names, addresses, and votes will be published in
a RESULTS article in the same newsgroups in which this CFV appears.

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons
who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from disinterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute this CFV.  If you must,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing pre-marked or edited copies of this CFV is vote fraud. When in
doubt, ask the votetaker.

Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One person, one vote.  Votes must be
mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded or proxy
votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW servers are considered to be
anonymous votes.

DISTRIBUTION:

In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to the mailing lists:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                               David Moore

From [email protected] Fri Nov 17 21:47:44 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Steve Bonine <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: RESULT: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic fails 91:29
Supersedes: <comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic-CFV2[email protected]>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 17 Nov 1995 21:47:40 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 222
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <comp.sys.amiga.[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7899 news.groups:174590 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:80292 comp.sys.amiga.misc:103876

                                RESULT
    unmoderated group comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic fails 91:29

There were 91 YES votes and 29 NO votes, for a total of 120 valid votes.
There were 2 abstains and 6 invalid ballots.

For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO)
votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.
Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the group may
not be voted on again for six months.

Newsgroups line:
comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic	Amiga's various basic languages.

Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 17 Nov 1995.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Mikko Makela <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Steve Bonine <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

There currently exists only one newsgroup for Amiga programmers,
named comp.sys.amiga.programmer. This group though has traditionally
been mainly used by programmers of other than basic languages, like
C, E and assembler. This means that many people would find it very
irritating, if suddenly comp.sys.amiga.programmer would be filled
with messages concerning basic languages. There exists atleast
three active mailinglists for basic languages, so linking these
lists to comp.sys.amiga.programmer would surely irritate "old users"
of the group.

On the other hand, separation of all languages to their own specific
group would seem to be too much and the volume of most of these
groups would be low.

Here are some numbers:

list/group                  average messages/day lately
comp.sys.amiga.programmer         50
ace-list   (ACE basic)            5-15
amos-list  (AMOS basic)           13
blitz-list (Blitz basic)          5

These are not the only basics for Amiga, but should be to my knowledge
the most used ones. As one can calculate, the summarized traffic
doesn't exceed 100 messages/day (although it does that periodically),
but considering the fact, that Amigas have been out of production
over an year now and the new ones have just started to arrive in shops,
the traffic is quaranteed to go up. Also traffic in newsgroups tends
to go higher than in mailing-lists. I would also like to clearly point out,
that this group isn't suggested so much as a split of comp.sys.amiga.programmer
but because there is a need for co-operative group for basic programmers
and directing the traffic to some existing group would surely irriate it's
current users as summarized traffic is quite high and growing.

CHARTER: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic

comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic is meant for all basic languages which
are available for Amiga range of computers. Also all mailinglists,
which specify to same area, would be allowed to link their messages
with the group.

Mailing-list to be gatewayed with the newsgroup are:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

END CHARTER.

comp.sys.amiga.programmer.basic Final Vote Ack

Voted Yes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ion.apana.org.au:[email protected]                 [email protected]
[email protected]                                               kelleher
[email protected]                                            David Simpson
[email protected]                                             ERIC LEVERT
[email protected]                                       Vincent Vega
[email protected]                                               Basil Barnes
[email protected]                                                   Bob Carter
[email protected]                                             Bernd Limbach
[email protected]                                          Rolf Heinen
[email protected]                                        Bonnefoy-Cudraz David
[email protected]                                                     Jan Breeman
[email protected]                                 Brett Cooper
[email protected]                                            Chris Andrews
[email protected]                                          Mark Tiffany
[email protected]                                     Ed or Jeanne Kolar
[email protected]                                            Chris Hodges
[email protected]                                          Christopher Naas
[email protected]                                   Christopher Lodge Stamper
[email protected]                                        Gareth Edwards
[email protected]                                                    Dennis
[email protected]                                     David Benn
[email protected]                                  Maarten D. de Jong
[email protected]                                                Don Schmelling
[email protected]                                                 S.E. Morris
[email protected]                            Craig K. Wm. Wyllie
[email protected]                                                   Oskar Sundberg
[email protected]                                          Gary T. Nelson
[email protected]                                          Hidehiko Ogata
[email protected]                                        Andre Hogenkamp
[email protected]                                          Srecko Howard
[email protected]                                                 Chuck Hubbell
[email protected]                                  DAVID FERNANDEZ PELEGRY
[email protected]                                              Harry J. Miktarian
[email protected]                                            Andrew
[email protected]                             J.A.Warner (Jonathan Warner)
[email protected]                                          James Burton
[email protected]                                                      Joe Carp
[email protected]                                                Jason Compton
[email protected]                                          Jeffery Webb
[email protected]                                      Jerry Koniecki
[email protected]                                     J. Eric Townsend
[email protected]                                                Jan Lubbers
[email protected]                                                   Trevor Tymchuk
[email protected]                                         Joseph R Gulizia
[email protected]                                              Kim DeVaughn
[email protected]                                       Jacek Kubica
[email protected]                             Jose Carlos Paiva Rodrigues
[email protected]                                              Magnus Lilja
[email protected]                                               Heikki Linnakangas
[email protected]                                  Martin Schr"oder
[email protected]                                               Seumas McNally
[email protected]                                         Morgan Macarthur
[email protected]    Andrew McDonald ([email protected]
[email protected]                                              Michael Cox
[email protected]                                           Mikko Makela
[email protected]                                           Michael W. Daniels
[email protected]                                            Falk Nieder
[email protected]                        OdaMan GURU expert
[email protected]                                               Brian Skreeg
[email protected]                                       Peter Froehlich
[email protected]                               Paul Whelan
[email protected]                                             Peter Duijnstee
[email protected]                                                   Paul Hickman
[email protected]                       Paul Hollander [email protected]
[email protected]                                                    Paul Todd
[email protected]                                           Rich Allen
[email protected]                                                   Robert Price
[email protected]                                            Rich Carreiro
[email protected]                                         Robert Newman
[email protected]                                 Chuck Davis
[email protected]                                            Rodney Schuler
[email protected]                                              Serge Veugelers
[email protected]                                     Georgios Skillas
[email protected]                                             Stephen Birch
[email protected]                                           J. Stick
[email protected]                                       Richard Wiffen
[email protected]                                                     Chris Wysocki
[email protected]                                             Ted Bailey
[email protected]                                          Timo Suoranta
[email protected]                                      Tony McKimm
[email protected]                                    Troels Walsted Hansen
[email protected]                                               Tabor J. Wells
[email protected]                                        John Bintz
[email protected]                                   Vittorio Ferrari
[email protected]                      Wolfgang von Hansen
[email protected]                                                    Vortex
[email protected]                                 Vaughan Roberts
[email protected]                                         Wayne Fisher
[email protected]                                       William F. Maddock
[email protected]                                          Kent Paul Dolan
[email protected]                                            Chris Padgett

Voted No
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                  Andrew Tristan
[email protected]                                            Arno Eigenwillig
[email protected]                        Ben Hutchings
[email protected]                                                   Andrew Carey
[email protected]                                              Mark Kupferman
[email protected]                                               Michiel Wijers
[email protected]                                       Drew J. Dawson
[email protected]                                             Don Kiely
[email protected]                                        Doug Harple
[email protected]                                      Jan Coekelberghs
[email protected]                                     John R. MacWilliamson
[email protected]                                              Kevin Mitchell
[email protected]                                             Lance K. Chun
[email protected]                                       Christian Weisgerber
[email protected]                                     Ollivier Robert
[email protected]                                           Patrick J. LoPresti
[email protected]                                           Matthew Schnierle
[email protected]                               David Moore
[email protected]                                     Glen Patrick Ryan
[email protected]                                    Juergen Weinelt
[email protected]                                   Scott Jeffrey Corley
[email protected]                                         Smarasderagd
[email protected]                                                  Dwight Brown
[email protected]                             Todd C. Lawson
[email protected]                                             Matthias Scheler
[email protected]                                        Tim Pierce
[email protected]                                         Risto Widenius
[email protected]                              Stefan Winterstein-Theobald
[email protected]                                                 Joshua Galun

Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                              Kenneth P Crouch
[email protected]                                          Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS


Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]
   ! No name given
[email protected]
   ! No name given
[email protected]
   ! No name given
[email protected]
   ! No name given
[email protected]
   ! No name given
[email protected]
   ! No name given
 
USENET FACT: Lurker
A person who reads/browses newsgroups but does not actively post.