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General ( comp.sys.mac )
 
From [email protected] Tue Feb 18 00:12:43 1992
Flags: 000000000201
From: [email protected] (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.mac
Subject: Call For Discussion: comp.sys.mac reorganization
Date: 19 Feb 90 20:53:04 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Fictional Reality: where your dreams can come true
Lines: 162
Keywords: posted


This is an official call for discussions on reorganizing the
comp.sys.mac hierarchy. After much preliminary discussion about ways to
deal with the overloading of comp.sys.mac, we've decided that we need
to do something more than just create a new group, but instead try to
reorganize the structure in a more radical way that won't require
further tuning in two or three months.

NOTE: The proposal, as written, does not fully conform to current
guidelines for newsgroup creation. This was done after great thought
because it was felt that what needed to be done to c.s.m simply
couldn't be done successfully by staying within the guidelines in a
timely manner. Gene Spafford, Greg Woods and I all feel the variations
are appropriate for the situation, but I also feel that this exceptions
should also have the general approval of the net, so I'm calling for a
survey on whether the proposal is acceptable.

PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE CALL FOR DISCUSSION AND THE PRELIMINARY
PROPOSAL. If you feel the proposed voting scheme for the reorganization
is appropriate or inappropriate, send mail to '[email protected]' with
either a 'yes' or a 'no' to the proposal structure. If the majority of
people responding to this survey vote 'yes' then the official call for
votes will have the structure proposed here. If the majority of
responses are negative, the proposal will be structured to match
current guidelines as a series of call for votes, although that is
expected to stretch the implementation time significantly. Either way,
if you have an opinion about the acceptability of the proposal, please
send it to me for inclusion in the survey. The results of the survey
will be binding on the form of the final proposal and call for votes.

This proposal is written as a series of suggested group changes or
creations. They are being sent out as a single proposal, but each group will
be voted on separately. This will allow the user community to choose which
sections of the proposal they want implemented, rather than forcing an all
or nothing situation. 

Additionally, I am proposing that, during the Call For Discussion phase we
are now entering, a secondary survey for additional changes be held. If
there is a group or change that you feel should be made to comp.sys.mac that
isn't in this preliminary proposal, you can e-mail that suggestion to me. If
I get 100 requests for a group, I will add it to the voting of the final
proposal. If I get fewer than 100 requests, I'll post it in a list when the
voting is finished as groups proposed for future additions, but they will
not be part of the official vote. (in other words, if there is a group you
want added to the final vote, you should send me e-mail requesting it AND
discuss it in news.groups to convince others to do so as well.).

If the survey on the guidelines variations fails, this proposal will be
restructures as a series of independent votes on one issue of the
proposal at a time. The effective change is that it will take a lot
longer to implement and require everyone to send in multiple votes, one
for each issue, rather than a single piece of e-mail with votes
covering all issues -- a lot more work over a longer time to get the
same thing done.

One final note: I'm specifically ignoring comp.sources.mac and
comp.binaries.mac in these proposals and focusing only on
comp.sys.mac.  There have been some discussions of splitting or
reorganizing c.b.m recently, but (1) I think it would be premature to
place any changes to a vote at this time, and (2) I think fixing c.s.m
is complex enough issue to deal with as it is without adding in the
complexities of the other hierarchies. I also believe that changes to
moderated groups should be organized by the moderator, so I leave these
hierarchies to someone else to work with.

Please send your survey comments about the structure of this proposal
(positive or negative) and requests for additional groups in this
proposal to me at "[email protected]". Because of the complexity of this
proposal and some personal scheduling requirements I'm running a
somewhat extended discussion period: discussion of this proposal and
vote counting for the surveys will run until March 17, 1990 with the
call for votes being issued the week of March 19. Please route all
discussion to news.groups and keep it out of c.s.m -- it's noisy enough
as it is (which is the whole point of the proposal).

Now, to the reorganization proposals themselves. Remember, in the call for
votes each proposal will be voted upon separately, and depending on the
results of the survey there might be additional groups to be voted upon:

Proposal 1: rename comp.sys.mac to comp.sys.mac.misc. This will be in
multiple stages: the creation of comp.sys.mac.misc, followed a few
weeks later by the rmgroup of comp.sys.mac and the addition of a usenet
alias to the new group to forward misdirected messages. This will bring
c.s.m into the same standardized naming as other hierarchies, and it
should also discourage some of the cross-posting between c.s.m and
sub-groups that happens when people think they should put it in the
parent group just in case.

Proposal 2: Creation of comp.sys.mac.os. This will be for discussion of
Macintosh system software -- the system, finder, multifinder, CDEVs, INITs
and other Apple and third party Operating System software and its
extensions.

Proposal 3: Creation of comp.sys.mac.appl. This will be for discussion of 
Macintosh applications. The naming of this group has created a fair amount
of discussion, ranging between app and applications. I've chosen appl for a
couple of reasons: (1) for people with a knowledge of Macintosh this term
won't be ambiguous, since it is the signature byte of applications (it
should also be obvious enough in context to not be ambiguous to complete
novices); and (2) I see this as the root of a sub-hierarchy, and the thought
of typing comp.sys.mac.applications.wordprocessing is painful and I think it
would be unacceptable to many users -- the shorter name will encourage
future expansions rather than discourage them.

Proposal 4: renaming comp.sys.mac.hypercard to comp.sys.mac.appl.hypercard.
To standardize naming in the new scheme. Technically, since Apple computer
considers Hypercard system software it should be c.s.m.os.hypercard, but I
don't believe most users agree with that thinking.

Proposal 5: creation of comp.sys.mac.wanted. A place for the "I'm missing
part five of..." or "I need a program that does..." or "Where can I get a
good price on..." messages. There was some discussion of creating a sister
group c.s.m.forsale, but for sale messages really should be encouraged to go
into a regional group and not a net-wide group.

Welcome to comp.sys.mac document: In parallel with this proposal, Geoff
Allen <[email protected]> is writing an "introduction to the
comp.sys.mac hierarchy document. This document will be posted on a regular
basis (and updated when needed) and will document the different groups in
the hierarchy and what type of messages should be posted where. It or a 
sister posting will also include answers to common questions. This posting
should also help reduce cross-posting, confusion and the constant
re-introduction of certain topics.

Rejected proposals: This is a short list of proposals considered that I've
rejected and why:

o c.s.m.fonts: discussion should be in comp.fonts
o c.s.m.desktop: desktop publishing discussion should be in comp.text.desktop
o c.s.m.d (or c.s.m.futures): I wasn't convinced it was a viable long-term
	discussion. With the proper splitting of the other topics, it should
	fit appropriately in c.s.m.misc. talk.politics.apple was also
	considered.
o c.s.m.viruses: discussion should be in comp.virus
o c.s.m.reviews: there isn't enough traffic to justify, and it would 
	have to be moderated to prevent lots of noise.
o c.s.m.{db,comm,spreadsheet,wordprocessing,et al}: these should be
	considered as sub-groups of the c.s.m.appl hierarchy and we should
	wait and see how traffic in that area works out before considering
	splitting it further. 

That's it. Five proposals, two renamed groups and three creations (two of
which should be considered roots for sub-hierarchies that can be created as
needed). Again, please respond to the survey about the format of this
proposal, and if you have groups you feel ought to be added to the
proposal. All discussion should take place in news.groups, not in the c.s.m
group.

thanks to: Cory Kempf, D. K. Smith, Dan Veditz, Dave Smith, Gail
Zacharias, Geoff Allen, John Macdonald, John R. Delaney, Larry E.
Kollar, Mark M Mehl, Piper Keairnes, Randy Futor, capmkt!bandy,
[email protected], [email protected], among others, for their feedback,
suggestions and advice on building this proposal.

chuq


-- 

Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   [email protected]   <+>   [This is myself speaking]

Rumour has it that Larry Wall, author of RN, is a finalist in the race for
the Nobel Peace Prize for his invention of the kill file.
From [email protected] Tue Feb 18 00:30:38 1992
Flags: 000000000201
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 90 20:18:57 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach <[email protected]>
Subject: CALL FOR VOTES: reorganization of comp.sys.mac
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.mac
Reply-to: [email protected]
Followup-to: poster
Keywords: posted

[This is a bit late, so some of the dates may be wrong.  I am posting
 this announcement at Wed Mar 14 17:59:56 PST 1990. Especially if you
 read on of the groups involved, please read this proposal carefully
 before taking action. In particular, note that a number of mac groups
 AREN'T moving.-eliot]

----
This is the official Call for Votes on the Comp.Sys.Mac hierarchy
reorganization. Votes will be taken from the date posted on
news.announce.newgroups through April 6, 1990 or for 21 days from posting,
whichever is longer. This vote was mailed to news.announce.newgroup on March
12, 1990.

Please vote on each proposal separately. You may vote 'yes', 'no' or
'abstain/no preference' (or use whatever terms you want for these as
long as they're non-ambiguous). Please use the following format:

Proposal 1: abstain
Proposal 2: abstain
Proposal 3: abstain
Proposal 5: abstain
Proposal 6: abstain
Proposal 7: abstain
Proposal 9: abstain

Mail your votes to '[email protected]'. I will count them and report back to
the net on the results of each separate voting item. Votes on each item will
be counted by the standard 'delta-100' guidelines. 

These proposals are being voted on:

Proposal 1: rename comp.sys.mac to comp.sys.mac.misc. This will be in
multiple stages: the creation of comp.sys.mac.misc, followed a month
later by the rmgroup of comp.sys.mac and the addition of a usenet alias
to the new group to forward misdirected messages. This will bring c.s.m
into the same standardized naming as other hierarchies, and it should
also discourage some of the cross-posting between c.s.m and sub-groups
that happens when people think they should put it in the parent group
just in case.

Proposal 2: Creation of comp.sys.mac.system. This will be for
discussion of Macintosh system software -- the system, finder,
multifinder, CDEVs, INITs and other Apple and third party system
software and extensions.

Proposal 3: Creation of comp.sys.mac.apps. This will be for discussion
of Macintosh applications -- word processors, databases, etc -- that do
not have a more appropriate group in the hierarchy (for instance,
c.s.m.programmer for development tools, c.s.m.hypercard for hypercard,
the proposed c.s.m.comm for telecommunication programs)

Proposal 4: [[cancelled. was c.s.m.apps.hierarchy.  With no .apps
sub-hierarchy, proposal is obsolete]]

Proposal 5: creation of comp.sys.mac.wanted. A place for the "I'm
missing part five of..." or "I need a program that does..." or "Where
can I get a good price on..." messages.

Proposal 6: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.games. A group for the
discussion of Macintosh computer games.

Proposal 7: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.comm. A group for the
discussion of telecommunication and networking software and programs:
Red Ryder, Microphone, Appleshare, etc.

Proposal 8: [[Cancelled. Was c.s.m.virus]]

Proposal 9: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.announce, to be created
moderated. Moderator to be appointed at some future time. Designed to be a
low-volume, high-content group for distribution of information, regular
postings (like the "where to find...", and "introduction to comp.sys.mac"
documents, postings like virus alerts and other forms of information
(product announcements? press releases?) to be determined.

No changes: comp.sys.mac.programmer, comp.sys.mac.digest,
comp.sys.mac.hardware, comp.sys.mac.hypercard.


From [email protected] Tue Feb 18 00:35:46 1992
Flags: 000000000201
From: [email protected] (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups
Subject: comp.sys.mac.reorg: mass acknowledgement 3/19/90
Date: 19 Mar 90 16:50:16 GMT
Organization: Fictional Reality: where your dreams can come true
Followup-to: news.groups
Keywords: posted


Here is a list of all addresses voting on the c.s.m reorg as of 3/19/90
(AM). If you sent me your vote and it's not here, please contact me. Note
that I haven't checked for duplicate or invalid addresses or counted votes
yet.

chuq
----
From: [email protected] (Galen Gisler, Los Alamos, Space Plasma Physics)
From: [email protected] (GurgleKat [Pete Gontier])
From: [email protected] (Brian Matthews)
From: [email protected] (Tim Aanerud)
From: Adele Evans <[email protected]>
From: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (John O'Malley)
From: Alfred von Campe  16-Mar-1990 1348 <[email protected]>
From: Amanda Walker <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Tom Doehne)
From: amdcad!pepsi!cdr (Carl Rigney)
From: ames!pacbell!ptsfa!fab
From: [email protected] (Peter Rauch)
From: [email protected] (Stephen R. Anderson)
From: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Anders Wallgren x7652)
From: "Andreas J. Guelzow" <[email protected]>
From: Andrew Diseker <[email protected]>
From: Andy Malis <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Andrew D. Christian)
From: [email protected] (Andrew Partan)
From: Bard Bloom <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Bruce Barnett)
From: Barrett P. Eynon <[email protected]>
From: Bart Sears <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (George Williams)
From: [email protected]
From: Bengt Larsson <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Professor Robert C. Berwick)
From: Bolo <[email protected]>
From: Brad Hochberg <[email protected]>
From: Brad Miller <[email protected]>
From: -Brian Diehm <[email protected]>
From: "Brian J. Papa" <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Brian Sturgill)
From: [email protected] (Eric Brunelle)
From: Bryan Wolf <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Bryce Nesbitt)
From: capmkt!bandy (Guru Drew)
From: Carl Jeffrey Otto <[email protected]>
From: Catherine A. Foulston <[email protected]>
From: [email protected]
From: charles he hemstreet <[email protected]>
From: Charlie Johnson <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Chip Rosenthal)
From: Chris Ranch <[email protected]>
From: Christopher Tate <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (C J Silverio)
From: [email protected] (Christopher Davis)
From: claris!peirce (Michael Peirce)
From: [email protected] (Dubois Charles L)
From: [email protected] (COHEN MATTHEW I)
From: [email protected] (Andrew M. Cohill)
From: [email protected] (Craig Ruff)
From: "D. W. James" <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Stefan Lindmark)
From: [email protected]
From: Dan Dlugose <[email protected]>
From: Dave Glowacki <[email protected]>
From: Dave Smith <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Larry E. Kollar)
From: [email protected] (David Elliott)
From: [email protected] (Dan Costin)
From: decwrl!decvax!rochester!cci632!ph (Pete Hoch)
From: Denis Rachal <[email protected]>
From: Dennis Linse <[email protected]>
From: [email protected]
From: Dinesh K. Prabhu <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Tom Dowdy)
From: [email protected]
From: DSF2 <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Dan Veditz)
From: EARL WILLIAMS <[email protected]>
From: Eiji Hirai <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (ethan miller)
From: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
From: Eric Johnson <pai!erc>
From: [email protected] (Eric Smith)
From: Erik Bertelsen <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Elliott S Frank)
From: ethz!mrys
From: frame!figment!pcc (Camden Clarke)
From: "Frank Callaham" <[email protected]>
From: "Frank D. Malczewski" <[email protected]>
From: Frank J. Schima <[email protected]>
From: Frank W. Peters <[email protected]>
From: "Frederic W. Brehm" <[email protected]>
From: Geoff Allen <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (George Nincehelser 5-6544)
From: [email protected] (Gilbert Harman)
From: [email protected]  (Gil [email protected]@Banyan)
From: "G.W. Somner CMP RA" <[email protected]>
From: gz@cambridge.apple.com (Gail Zacharias)
From: heaven!glenn@NeXT.COM (Glenn Reid)
From: hoptoad!tim (Tim Maroney)
From: Howard Haruo Fukuda <hf07+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
From: howard@wsqtb2.crd.ge.com
From: hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu (Herb Poppe)
From: igor@cs.wisc.edu (Igor Steinberg)
From: Jack Campin <jack%cs.glasgow.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK>
From: jackiw@cs.swarthmore.edu (Nick Jackiw)
From: jaime@tcville.hac.com (Jaime Villacorte)
From: James Aslanis <redlands@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu>
From: "James E. Wilson" <wilson@ERNIE.BERKELEY.EDU>
From: "Jason W. Anthony" <anthonjw@clutx.clarkson.edu>
From: jbr@hongkong.key.com (Jeff Rubin)
From: jdinkins@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (jeff)
From: Jeff Ersoff <jae@uncecs.edu>
From: jeffl@NCoast.ORG (Jeff Leyser)
From: Jeffrey James Bryan Carpenter <jjc@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
From: jeuck@unix.sri.com (Philip Jeuck)
From: jfh@rpp386.Cactus.ORG (John F. Haugh II)
From: jgk@osc.osc.COM (Joe Keane)
From: jhf@cblpe.att.com (Jeffri H Frontz)
From: "jill holly hansen" <jill@tank.uchicago.edu>
From: Jim Matthews <Jim.Matthews@DARTVAX.DARTMOUTH.EDU>
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu
From: Joe Block <jpb@umbio.miami.edu>
From: Joel B Levin <levin@BBN.COM>
From: johannes@ruflie.umd.edu (Johannes van Zeijts)
From: "John R. Delaney" <delaney@XN.LL.MIT.EDU>
From: John.Starta@f90.n1012.z1.fidonet.org (John Starta)
From: Jonathan King <jk3t+@andrew.cmu.edu>
From: jonb@vector.dallas.tx.us (Jon Buller)
From: Jorgen Rask <rask@daimi.dk>
From: JOSEPH@CC.UTAH.EDU
From: jwhitnell@cup.portal.com
From: jwhitnell@cup.portal.com
From: kcr@Sun.COM (Kevin Rushforth)
From: Keith Decker <Decker@ariel.cs.umass.edu>
From: Keith M Andress <andress@demon.siemens.com>
From: Kevin Whitley <kw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
From: ksr!reg@uunet.UU.NET (Rick Genter)
From: kuo@snoopy.Colorado.EDU (Andy Y.A. Kuo)
From: kurt kohler <kohler@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU>
From: L L Campbell <campbell@sun.acs.udel.edu>
From: larryh@tekgvs.labs.tek.com
From: Len Schwer <schwer@unix.sri.com>
From: Leo Breebaart <leo@duttnph.tudelft.nl>
From: "Leonore A. Findsen" <FAX0357@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
From: lhn@Atherton.COM (Le Nguyen)
From: Linda Kesselring <LAKESSEL@SUVM.BITNET>
From: lindner@ncis.tis.llnl.gov (Curt Lindner)
From: lippin@math.berkeley.edu (Tom Lippincott)
From: lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein)
From: Mailer-Daemon@unix.sri.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
From: man@CS.BROWN.EDU
From: Margret Buckley <buckley@sumex-aim.stanford.edu>
From: Mark Bartelt <mark@sickkids.toronto.edu>
From: Mark Kolb <MAK@hippocrene.mit.edu>
From: Matt Mora <mxmora@unix.sri.com>
From: Matt Rollefson <draphsor@portia.stanford.edu>
From: matthew@ooc.uva.nl (Matthew Lewis)
From: Matthias Urlichs <urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de>
From: mcb@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch)
From: mdcbbs!sandy@dev3f.mdcbbs.com
From: mehl@atanasoff@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu (Mark M Mehl)
From: meldal@ithink.STANFORD.EDU (Sigurd Meldal)
From: Melissa Wauford <mwauford@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU>
From: metaphor!wixer.metaphor.com!wallich@decwrl.dec.com
From: Michael Crawford <escher@goofy.apple.com>
From: "Michael D. Ketchen" <mketch@PAWL.RPI.EDU>
From: Michael J Kobb <mjkobb@MEDIA-LAB.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>
From: Michael Poston <mposton@uci.edu>
From: Michael Tod Rose <mr2t+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
From: mikew@neptune.fx.com (Mike Wexler)
From: <miner@parc.xerox.com>
From: minich@a.cs.okstate.edu
From: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus)
From: mjm@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Michael McClennen)
From: mlamarch@matrox.matrox.com (Michel Lamarche)
From: montnaro@moose.crd.ge.com (Skip Montanaro)
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
From: mpease@marion.cvedc.prime.com (Mark Pease)
From: mudpit@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu
From: muin@cae.wisc.edu
From: mwilkins@JARTHUR.CLAREMONT.EDU
From: nano@Eng.Sun.COM (Aureliano Buendia)
From: neil@wcc.oz.au (Neil Murray)
From: netcom!chrisj (Christopher Jewell)
From: newbery@rata.vuw.ac.nz (Michael Newbery)
From: Nick Crossley <ccicpg!hobbit!ndjc@uunet.UU.NET>
From: Nigel Perry <np@doc.ic.ac.uk>
From: nih-csl!elsie!ado@uunet.UU.NET (Arthur David Olson)
From: nlil@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Larry G. Robinson)
From: Noah Price <noah>
From: nomdenet@venera.isi.edu
From: Norman Goodger <ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM>
From: "Norman William Franke, III" <nf0i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
From: <nvuxr!ccw@bellcore.bellcore.com>
From: oplinger@ra.crd.ge.com (B. S. Oplinger)
From: "Pablo Fernicola" <pff@beach.cis.ufl.edu>
From: Paul Nakada <pnakada@pnakada.oracle.com>
From: Per Abrahamsen <amanda@iesd.auc.dk>
From: Peter M|ller <peterm@DNA.LTH.Se>
From: Phil Gross <philbo@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
From: pixar!amstein@Sun.COM (Peter Amstein)
From: pluto!hirchert@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Kurt W. Hirchert)
From: purtill@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
From: pwp@shamash.cdc.com (Peter Poorman)
From: quack!mrapple (Nick Sayer)
From: QYZJ@VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU
From: ralph%computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK
From: ralph@mtune.att.com
From: razeh@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Robert A. Zeh)
From: RD Francis <francis@cis.ohio-state.edu>
From: rdr@Alliant.COM (Roger Roles)
From: Reid Ellis <rae%alias%csri.toronto.edu@alias>
From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk@boulder.Colorado.EDU>
From: Richard H. Miller <rick@pavlov.bcm.tmc.edu>
From: Richard.Quadrel@CAD.CS.CMU.EDU
From: rimvallm@ra.crd.ge.com (Magnus Rimvall)
From: rmh@apple.com (Rick Holzgrafe)
From: robert@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz
From: Ronald N. Voss <vossron>
From: root@asterix.drev.dnd.ca (SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR)
From: Ross M Mather <matherr%cs.glasgow.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK>
From: "Ross Yahnke, MACC" <YAHNKE@macc.wisc.edu>
From: rsfinn@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
From: Samuel Lam <skl@wimsey.bc.ca>
From: Scott Robert Anderson <phssra@EMORY.MATHCS.EMORY.EDU>
From: scott@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Scott Hazen Mueller)
From: shull@scrolls.wharton.upenn.edu (Christopher E. Shull)
From: siegel@harvard.harvard.edu (Rich Siegel)
From: sis!doug (doug berry)
From: spencer@eecs.umich.edu (Spencer W. Thomas)
From: sppy00!glf (Greg Feldman-Hill)
From: Stephen N. Spencer<spencer@heinlein.cgrg.ohio-state.edu>
From: Steve Ly <stevely@milton.u.washington.edu>
From: stuart@natinst.com (Don Stuart)
From: tct!chip@uunet.UU.NET (Chip Salzenberg)
From: Timothy VanFosson <timv@cadfx.ccad.uiowa.edu>
From: tmccabe@cs.washington.edu (Tom McCabe)
From: Tom D Gedeon <Tom.Gedeon%brunel.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK>
From: Tom Haapanen <tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu>
From: trigraph!john (John Chew)
From: twl@CS.BROWN.EDU
From: UCLAPP Sysop <JPRICE@UCLAPP.PHYSICS.UCLA.EDU>
From: vivanovic@Sun.COM (Vladimir G. Ivanovic)
From: vogelw@bionette.CGRB.ORST.EDU (Walter Vogel - Biochem)
From: vpsingha@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
From: William Wisner <wisner@mica.berkeley.edu>
From: wishart@bnlux0.bnl.gov (Jim Wishart)
From: younger@bruce.cs.monash.OZ.AU (Chris Younger)
-- 

Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   chuq@apple.com   <+>   [This is myself speaking]

All spirits are enslaved which serve things evil -- Shelley


From chuq@apple.com Tue Feb 18 00:37:18 1992
Flags: 000000000201
From: chuq@apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.mac
Subject: Second call for votes: comp.sys.mac reorg
Date: 22 Mar 90 19:06:51 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Fictional Reality: where your dreams can come true
Keywords: posted


This is the second official Call for Votes on the Comp.Sys.Mac
hierarchy reorganization. Votes will be taken until April 6, 1990.

Please vote on each proposal separately. You may vote 'yes', 'no' or
'abstain/no preference' (or use whatever terms you want for these as
long as they're non-ambiguous). Please use the following format:

Proposal 1: abstain
Proposal 2: abstain
Proposal 3: abstain
Proposal 5: abstain
Proposal 6: abstain
Proposal 7: abstain
Proposal 9: abstain

Mail your votes to 'chuq@apple.com'. I will count them and report back to
the net on the results of each separate voting item. Votes on each item will
be counted by the standard 'delta-100' guidelines. 

These proposals are being voted on:

Proposal 1: rename comp.sys.mac to comp.sys.mac.misc. This will be in
multiple stages: the creation of comp.sys.mac.misc, followed a month
later by the rmgroup of comp.sys.mac and the addition of a usenet alias
to the new group to forward misdirected messages. This will bring c.s.m
into the same standardized naming as other hierarchies, and it should
also discourage some of the cross-posting between c.s.m and sub-groups
that happens when people think they should put it in the parent group
just in case.

Proposal 2: Creation of comp.sys.mac.system. This will be for
discussion of Macintosh system software -- the system, finder,
multifinder, CDEVs, INITs and other Apple and third party system
software and extensions.

Proposal 3: Creation of comp.sys.mac.apps. This will be for discussion
of Macintosh applications -- word processors, databases, etc -- that do
not have a more appropriate group in the hierarchy (for instance,
c.s.m.programmer for development tools, c.s.m.hypercard for hypercard,
the proposed c.s.m.comm for telecommunication programs)

Proposal 4: [[cancelled. was c.s.m.apps.hierarchy.  With no .apps
sub-hierarchy, proposal is obsolete]]

Proposal 5: creation of comp.sys.mac.wanted. A place for the "I'm
missing part five of..." or "I need a program that does..." or "Where
can I get a good price on..." messages.

Proposal 6: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.games. A group for the
discussion of Macintosh computer games.

Proposal 7: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.comm. A group for the
discussion of telecommunication and networking software and programs:
Red Ryder, Microphone, Appleshare, etc.

Proposal 8: [[Cancelled. Was c.s.m.virus]]

Proposal 9: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.announce, to be created
moderated. Moderator to be appointed at some future time. Designed to be a
low-volume, high-content group for distribution of information, regular
postings (like the "where to find...", and "introduction to comp.sys.mac"
documents, postings like virus alerts and other forms of information
(product announcements? press releases?) to be determined.

No changes: comp.sys.mac.programmer, comp.sys.mac.digest,
comp.sys.mac.hardware, comp.sys.mac.hypercard.

-- 

Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   chuq@apple.com   <+>   [This is myself speaking]

He hasn't an enemy in the world, and none of his friends like him. -- Wilde


From chuq@apple.com Tue Feb 18 00:41:10 1992
Flags: 000000000201
From: chuq@apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.mac
Subject: Final Call for Votes: comp.sys.mac reorg
Date: 28 Mar 90 15:43:00 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Fictional Reality: where your dreams can come true
Keywords: posted


This is the final call for votes for the comp.sys.mac reorg. Voting will
continue until April 6. Please e-mail votes to chuq@apple.com

Please vote on each proposal separately. You may vote 'yes', 'no' or
'abstain/no preference' (or use whatever terms you want for these as
long as they're non-ambiguous). Please use the following format:

Proposal 1: abstain
Proposal 2: abstain
Proposal 3: abstain
Proposal 5: abstain
Proposal 6: abstain
Proposal 7: abstain
Proposal 9: abstain

Mail your votes to 'chuq@apple.com'. I will count them and report back to
the net on the results of each separate voting item. Votes on each item will
be counted by the standard 'delta-100' guidelines. 

These proposals are being voted on:

Proposal 1: rename comp.sys.mac to comp.sys.mac.misc. This will be in
multiple stages: the creation of comp.sys.mac.misc, followed a month
later by the rmgroup of comp.sys.mac and the addition of a usenet alias
to the new group to forward misdirected messages. This will bring c.s.m
into the same standardized naming as other hierarchies, and it should
also discourage some of the cross-posting between c.s.m and sub-groups
that happens when people think they should put it in the parent group
just in case.

Proposal 2: Creation of comp.sys.mac.system. This will be for
discussion of Macintosh system software -- the system, finder,
multifinder, CDEVs, INITs and other Apple and third party system
software and extensions.

Proposal 3: Creation of comp.sys.mac.apps. This will be for discussion
of Macintosh applications -- word processors, databases, etc -- that do
not have a more appropriate group in the hierarchy (for instance,
c.s.m.programmer for development tools, c.s.m.hypercard for hypercard,
the proposed c.s.m.comm for telecommunication programs)

Proposal 4: [[cancelled. was c.s.m.apps.hierarchy.  With no .apps
sub-hierarchy, proposal is obsolete]]

Proposal 5: creation of comp.sys.mac.wanted. A place for the "I'm
missing part five of..." or "I need a program that does..." or "Where
can I get a good price on..." messages.

Proposal 6: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.games. A group for the
discussion of Macintosh computer games.

Proposal 7: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.comm. A group for the
discussion of telecommunication and networking software and programs:
Red Ryder, Microphone, Appleshare, etc.

Proposal 8: [[Cancelled. Was c.s.m.virus]]

Proposal 9: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.announce, to be created
moderated. Moderator to be appointed at some future time. Designed to be a
low-volume, high-content group for distribution of information, regular
postings (like the "where to find...", and "introduction to comp.sys.mac"
documents, postings like virus alerts and other forms of information
(product announcements? press releases?) to be determined.

No changes: comp.sys.mac.programmer, comp.sys.mac.digest,
comp.sys.mac.hardware, comp.sys.mac.hypercard.

-- 

Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   chuq@apple.com   <+>   [This is myself speaking]

He hasn't an enemy in the world, and none of his friends like him. -- Wilde


 
USENET FACT: Big-8
BIG-8 hierarchies are the 8 traditional top hierarchies of the Usenet. See the following page for more