From [email protected] Sun Jun  7 20:16:57 1998
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Jean L. Cooper 
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.support.big-folks,soc.support.fat-acceptance
Subject: RFD: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 03:11:55 GMT
Lines: 181
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10173 news.groups:286988 soc.support.fat-acceptance:34447

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
         moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide moderated Usenet newsgroup soc.support.fat-
acceptance.moderated.  This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot
vote at this time.  Procedural details are below.

Newsgroup line:
soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)

RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups, alt.support.big-folks
and soc.support.fat-acceptance, that provide a forum for discussion of
the fat acceptance movement and other issues in the lives of those of us
who are considered larger than average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups
are frequently hit by trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks
against large people and endless advertisements for weight loss
products.  We wish to create a new, moderated group in order to provide
an environment that is free of the above-mentioned attacks and
advertisements.

CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the
personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics relevant
to being fat. As a support group, abuse of individuals and groups based
on their appearance will not be tolerated. This group is not an
appropriate place for discussions of any methods intended to change
one's size (diets, weight loss surgery, etc.).

Moderation policy:

soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated will be moderated to block the
following specific types of posts:

     - Promotion or advocacy of weight loss or weight gain methods.
These may be discussed in alt.support.diet.
     - Personal ads. These may be posted to alt.personals.big-folks or
alt.personals.fat.
     - Advertisements for diet/weight loss products or schemes, or
general advertisements (for exceptions see definitions below).
     - Posts advocating Make Money Fast schemes or distributing chain
letters.
     - Encoded binary files. Pointers to binary files will be allowed,
providing the message is not off-topic for other reasons listed in this
charter.
     - Messages crossposted to soc.support.fat- acceptance.moderated and
more than two other newsgroups (a total of more than three posts in
all).
     - Abusive posts and posts attacking others in particular or in
general in regards to their weight or appearance.

Definitions:

Abuse: Abuse is insulting people based on their size, based on
prejudicial notions related to size, or based on prejudicial language
regarding their size.

Advertisements:  Advertisements for products of special interest to
large people (excluding diets/weight loss products or schemes) will be
accepted, provided the subject line begins with the word: "AD:" and
provided that a given company posts no more than once every three
months.  SIG files that are no more than 3 lines long, and which are
appended to an on-topic message over 3 lines long shall not be
considered ads by this definition.

Diet/Weight Loss: Inappropriate diet or weight loss talk centers around
the personal imperative to change one's body size to meet the
impersonal, pervasive judgments of society.  Therefore, discussion of
nutritional plans or surgical procedures with the sole goal of weight
gain or loss, including advertisements for same, is off-topic for
this newsgroup.  Discussion of nutritional plans or surgical procedures
which address a bona fide medical problem are considered on-topic.

Information: Posts requesting information on how to lose or gain weight
are considered off-topic - this includes both nutritional plans and
surgical procedures.  Discussion of the health hazards of nutritional
plans and surgical procedures are on-topic.  Posts discussing medical or
other research on obesity, whether pro or con, are always on-topic.

However, readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged
to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to, the
following:

     - Fat-acceptance political activism
     - Events relating to fat-acceptance
     - Medical research and related research papers
     - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including
nutrition and exercise for large people)
     - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order catalogs,
etc.)
     - Personal anecdotes about being fat
     - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

Moderator: Kristofer Jon Magnusson 
Moderator: Theresa Dyer 

Submission address: [email protected]
Administrative address: [email protected]

This newsgroup is to be moderated in order to provide a troll-free,
non-commercial, supportive environment.  Moderation will be done using
robo-moderation software, set up to filter posts according to the
moderation policy stated above.

The moderation software, STUMP, is running on a Unix server connected
directly to the Internet on a T1. The moderation process is based on the
document at the URL:
http://www.planetary.net/ssfa/moderation_process.html.

The newsgroup will attempt to have a minimum of 3 moderators appointed
at any given time, though occasionally fewer (even one) will be
permitted.  Outbound moderators will work with the remaining
moderator(s) and make reasonable attempts to find replacements for
themselves that are acceptable to those moderator(s) remaining.
Preferably these will come from the readership of the newsgroup.

In accordance with the NetNews Moderator's Handbook
(http://www.landfield.com/usenet/moderators/handbook/), it is in the
best interests of both moderation team and newsgroup for outgoing
moderators to choose replacement moderators, and not for the newsgroup
to choose (or approve) with a vote.

Disagreements among the moderators as to the appropriateness of a
specific posting will be decided by a simple majority vote of the
moderators, i.e., with 3 moderators, a vote of 2 in favor or opposed on
a specific question will prevail. In the case of a split vote between
two moderators, posts will be approved.

Kris Magnusson is a software engineer for Novell, Inc., who has
participated in soc.support.fat-acceptance for five years. He is
currently the moderator of FoxxVox 
and participates on several other mailing lists. He is currently writing
a book for O'Reilly & Associates on Java network programming and has
seven years experience managing Unix hosts and Internet services.  He
will act as the lead moderator, provide a stable connection for
moderation and set up the technical details.

Theresa Dyer has a B.S.L.A. degree from the School of Languages and
Linguistics at Georgetown University.  She has five months of online
experience.  She has worked as an editor and as a paralegal, and is
currently a claims adjuster for Acadia Insurance in Westbrook, Maine. As
an insurance adjuster, she has received special training in various
forms of dispute resolution and fair decision making.

END MODERATOR INFO.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for
a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal
is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes
(CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants
it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:

news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,
alt.support.big-folks,
soc.support.fat-acceptance,
alt.support.obesity

Proponent: Jean L. Cooper 

From [email protected] Thu May 20 00:59:45 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Siobhan Perricone 
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.support.big-folks
Subject: RFD: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:58:32 GMT
Lines: 435
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11034 news.groups:314234 soc.support.fat-acceptance:65378

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
         moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
Worldwide moderated Usenet newsgroup soc.support.fat-
acceptance.moderated.  This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot
vote at this time.  Procedural details are below.

Newsgroup line:
soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)

RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

There are currently three unmoderated newsgroups, alt.support.big-folks,
alt.support.fat-acceptance, and soc.support.fat-acceptance,
that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement
and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than
average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by
trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people
and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to
create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that
is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.

CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the
personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics
relevant to being fat. As a support group, abuse of individuals and
groups based on their appearance will not be tolerated. All self-
defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards
self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour
size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are building
a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The important
thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal attacks (see the
policy statement for details on this issue).

Moderation policy:

soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated will be moderated to block the
following specific types of posts:

1. Trolls
2. Spam
3. Personal Attacks
4. Inappropriate posts
5. Binaries

1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to
   provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.

2. Spam is a post that was made, essentially unchanged, to a number
   of newsgroups, generally for religious, political, commercial,
   or irrational reasons.

3. Personal attacks are defined as posts which personally insult or
   attack one or more of the members of the newsgroup (note:
   criticisms of ideas, are not personal attacks. For example:
   "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack, but "you are an
   idiot for proposing that idea" is a personal attack.).  Extremely
   factual (that is subject to proof) and derogatory/defamatory
   allegations that can't be backed up may be construed as personal
   attacks.

4. There are some topics for discussion that are not appropriate to
   this forum.  Messages about these topics will not be approved:

   (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,
       or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,
       drugs, exercise, and other methods will not be approved.
       (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages
       that say "even though [weight control method] is not for
       everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this
       restriction.

       Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for
       same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight
       control attempts or methods, are allowed.

       Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not
       advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about
       exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about
       exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.

       If you mention weight changes that happened to you without
       your intending to, try to be careful in your wording so it
       doesn't sound like you're advocating weight control.

   (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those of
       interest to fat or fat-accepting people.
       If you sell a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as
       clothing in large sizes) you may post something about your
       business no more than once per month. The preferred way to
       do this is to point people to your web site.  Ads will be
       checked by a volunteer before being posted in order to
       confirm that the products are actually for fat people. The
       subject line of such posts will have ADVERT: prepended to them
       by the moderators.  If we go to verify your site and it's not
       what your ad leads people to believe all future posts will be
       rejected.

       The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise
       fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's
       primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.

       If the moderators believe that the amount or type of
       advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of
       the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put
       additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This
       change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation
       mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of
       the moderators.

       Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept
       personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online
       Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to
       soc.personals.

5. Binaries will be filtered out.

Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged
to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to,
the following:

     - Fat-acceptance political activism
     - Events relating to fat-acceptance
     - Medical research and related research papers
     - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including
       nutrition and exercise for large people)
     - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order
       catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to
       requests for such information
     - Personal anecdotes about being fat
     - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements
     - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs

Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
================================

The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by
the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks
will be used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort.

Amending This Charter
=====================

This charter can be amended at any time by following the procedures
then in effect for newsgroup creation.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

Moderator: Sharon Curtis 
Moderator: Jean C 
Moderator: Jessica Hankins 
Moderator: Moira Harris 
Moderator: Tina Marie 
Moderator: Stef Maruch 
Moderator: Annette M. Stroud 

END MODERATOR INFO.

                Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for:
          soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderation style

What is the purpose of the FAQ?

This FAQ serves to answer questions about how moderation is performed
on the soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (ssfam) newsgroup.

======================================================================

What types of posts will be disallowed on the newsgroup?

1. Trolls
2. Spam
3. Personal Attacks
4. Inappropriate posts
5. Binaries

1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to
   provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.

2. Spam is a post that was made, essentially unchanged, to a number
   of newsgroups, generally for religious, political, commercial,
   or irrational reasons.

3. Personal attacks are defined as posts which personally insult or
   attack one or more of the members of the newsgroup (note:
   criticisms of ideas, are not personal attacks. For example:
   "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack, but "you are an
   idiot for proposing that idea" is a personal attack.).  Extremely
   factual (that is subject to proof) and derogatory/defamatory
   allegations that can't be backed up may be construed as personal
   attacks.

4. There are some topics for discussion that are not appropriate to
   this forum.  Messages about these topics will not be approved:

   (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,
       or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,
       drugs, exercise, and other methods will not be approved.
       (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages
       that say "even though [weight control method] is not for
       everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this
       restriction.

       Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for
       same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight
       control attempts or methods, are allowed.

       Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not
       advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about
       exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about
       exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.

       If you mention weight changes that happened to you without
       your intending to, try to be careful in your wording so it
       doesn't sound like you're advocating weight control.

   (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those of
       interest to fat or fat-accepting people.
       If you sell a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as
       clothing in large sizes) you may post something about your
       business no more than once per month. The preferred way to
       do this is to point people to your web site.  Ads will be
       checked by a volunteer before being posted in order to
       confirm that the products are actually for fat people. The
       subject line of such posts will have ADVERT: prepended to them
       by the moderators.  If we go to verify your site and it's not
       what your ad leads people to believe all future posts will be
       rejected.

       The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise
       fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's
       primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.

       If the moderators believe that the amount or type of
       advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of
       the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put
       additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This
       change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation
       mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of
       the moderators.

       Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept
       personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online
       Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to
       soc.personals.

5. Binaries will be filtered out.

======================================================================

What will the user see of moderation?

The first time anyone posts on the newsgroup, they will be entered
into a list of posters.  Software will notice the new user and will
send them a greeting.  In that greeting will be a form to fill out
indicating their familiarity with the etiquette of the newsgroup and
their agreement to follow those rules.

Once the new poster agrees, the first ten (10) posts they send to the
newsgroup will be hand moderated.  After those first ten (10) posts
are approved, they will allowed to post without human intervention as
long as they follow these rules.

Any poster who violates these rules will be warned three times by
the moderators.  If the poster is warned three times in the space of
30 days and the moderators decide that the person is unwilling to
follow the rules, that person will be put on a list of people who
will be hand moderated.  The record gets reset for each person after
30 days without a warning.  In other words, if a poster gets warned
about violating the rules and then doesn't violate the rules for 30
days, the warning goes away and they get a "clean slate".  However,
someone who habitually breaks the rules every 31 (or so) days, will
be subject to hand moderation at the discretion of the moderators if
the person in question has broken the rules 5 or more times in a six
month period.

When a person is placed on this list the first time, to get off the
list, they will need to send e-mail to the moderators promising to
follow the above rules.  They will then be reinstated.

The second time they are put on the list, they may be there for a
minimum of one month (30 calendar days).  After the 30 day period has
expired they can again ask to be removed from the hand moderation
list.  If they have not violated the charter during the last month
their request will be granted.

Thereafter having been placed in the hand moderation list each person
will be automatically brought to the attention of the moderators on
Six-month intervals.  At this point the moderators will then decide
on whether to take the person off of the hand moderation list or not.

======================================================================

What else will be disapproved by the moderators?

Any thread which seems to be in danger of venturing into personal
attack or troll territory will be moderated by hand, subject to the
other limitations of the moderation process discussed in the next
sections.

======================================================================

What cross-posts will be allowed?

Cross-posts will only be allowed to the other unmoderated fat
Acceptance newsgroups.  Any other newsgroups will be removed
from the header.

======================================================================

How will hand moderation be performed?

Any time a moderator chooses to perform this function they will send
a message to the moderation site.  They will then be put on a list of
'online moderators'.  These moderators will have posts sent to them
in a round robin fashion.  They can specify how many outstanding
messages they can have.  The system will send no more than that many
messages to them at one time.

Upon receiving the message, the moderator can accept or reject the
post.  If the post is rejected, they can select one of several boiler
plate replies, or write one of their own.

If the message is not received back at the moderation site within
half an hour, the message is resent.  If it is still not received
within another half hour, the post will be sent to the next available
moderator, and the unavailable moderator will be automatically logged
out.

When a moderator logs out, any messages that they have not replied to
will be sent to the next available moderator.

======================================================================

What can I do if a message is rejected, or if I have other questions
regarding posts?

There is a mailing list, [email protected], that
will reach all the moderators.  If you feel like your message should
not have been rejected feel free to contact the moderators as a
group.  If any one of the moderators thinks that the message should
not have been rejected, it will be posted.

The moderators reserve the right to ignore mail that is clearly
abusive. It should be remembered that the moderators are volunteers
and that they are attempting to be as fair as possible in this
situation - and as such should not be expected to be treated as a
"shooting gallery".

======================================================================

What can be done about problems with the moderation panel?

Grievances should first be taken up with the moderator list mentioned
above. If the issue is not resolved to the person's satisfaction they
can bring the issue up to the list of people interested in
moderation, [email protected], after the moderators are
given sufficient time to resolve the issue (at least 3 days, due to
mail accessibility and propagation delay issues)

This second list is publicly accessible, and anyone who wants to join
can send a message to famod-request or famod-digest-request on the
same machine with the word 'subscribe' in the body of the message.

This group acts as an oversight committee.  They have no official
power, but are rather a publicly accessible list where people can air
their grievances. It is to be understood that bringing a post to this
list is accepting the greater propagation of the more public list.

If a majority of the moderators decide that a moderator is indeed
abusing his or her power, he or she will be removed from the list of
moderators or censured at the discretion of the majority of
moderators.

Siobhan Perricone , Nully Fydyan
, and Mary-Anne Wolf  have
agreed to monitor all traffic on the moderators' and public mailing
lists, and the moderators have agreed to abdicate as a group if
Siobhan Perricone , Nully Fydyan
, and/or Mary-Anne Wolf 
feel it to be necessary.

In the event of abdication the moderation address will be changed to
a new group of moderators if a group acceptable to the current
moderators are found.  Otherwise a request to remove the group from
Usenet will be generated - due to the requirements of Usenet (this
is not a choice that the moderators have an alternative for.)

======================================================================

Who are the moderators?

The moderators currently active for the newsgroup are
(in alphabetical order by last name):

Sharon Curtis 
Jean C 
Jessica Hankins 
Moira Harris 
Tina Marie 
Stef Maruch 
Annette M. Stroud 

You can reach the moderators at: [email protected]
Just send your messages to that address.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this
Phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed
Newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will
continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD
for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which
a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the
discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this
happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and
"How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to
these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have
any questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:
soc.support.fat-acceptance
alt.support.big-folks
alt.support.fat-acceptance.

Proponent: Siobhan Perricone 

From [email protected] Mon Jun  7 20:43:51 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Siobhan Perricone 
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.support.big-folks
Subject: 2nd RFD: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 03:35:57 GMT
Lines: 561
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11046 news.groups:316502 soc.support.fat-acceptance:66809

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
         moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

CHANGES from previous RFD:

The newsgroup alt.support.fat-acceptance was removed wherever it
appeared because the group does not exist.  Significant changes were
made to the moderation policy to reflect discussion in news.groups
about not allowing pro-diet discussion.  Significant changes were
made to the moderation FAQ to allow for a way to add moderators and
clarify issues surrounding hand moderation when someone starts
posting.  The three oversight moderators were listed as official
moderators.  Small binaries were allowed.  Cross-posting, except
for FAQs, was disallowed.  A statement indicating that the moderation
policy could be adjusted by the moderators as needed was added.  The
statement about modifying the charter according to any procedures
then in effect was removed.  Allowing discussion of moderation on
the newsgroup was added, with the proviso that moderators may choose
to move such discussion if it threatens to take over the newsgroup.
A section was added to refer people to other places on Usenet for
posting messages that are not allowed on the newsgroup.  Various
grammatical and typographical errors were corrected.

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
Worldwide moderated Usenet newsgroup
soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated. This is not a Call for Votes
(CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural details are below.

Newsgroup line:
soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)

RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups,
alt.support.big-folks and soc.support.fat-acceptance,
that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement
and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than
average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by
trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people
and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to
create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that
is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.

CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the
personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics
relevant to being fat. This is a support group. Abuse of individuals
and groups based on their appearance will not be tolerated. All self-
defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards
self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour
size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are building
a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The important
thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal attacks (see the
policy statement for details on this issue).

Moderation policy:

soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated will be moderated to block the
following specific types of posts:

1. Trolls
2. Spam
3. Personal Attacks
4. Inappropriate posts
5. Binaries
6. Cross posts

1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to
   provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.

2. Spam is an off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of
   commercialism or zealotry.

3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the
   newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.
   For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,
   but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific
   allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that
   poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as
   personal attacks.

4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support
   group for people who want a break from the "weight control is
   good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western
   society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical
   information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight
   control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of
   messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about
   these topics will not be approved:

   (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,
       or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,
       drugs, exercise, and other methods will not be approved.
       (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages
       that say "even though [weight control method] is not for
       everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this
       restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-
       acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed
       his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail
       about a particular method for weight control that worked for
       the poster will be considered advocacy unless the surrounding
       fat-acceptance context is clear.

       Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for
       same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight
       control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of
       scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the
       refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.

       Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not
       advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about
       exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about
       exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.

   (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those
       of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell
       a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in
       large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more
       than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point
       people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before
       being posted in order to confirm that the products are
       actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in
       the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators
       will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site
       does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all
       future posts from that vendor may be rejected.

       The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise
       fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's
       primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.

       If the moderators believe that the amount or type of
       advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of
       the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put
       additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This
       change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation
       mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of
       the moderators.

       Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept
       personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online
       Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to
       soc.personals.

5. Binaries, with the exception small binaries used to authenticate
   (e.g. PGP keys), will be filtered out.

6. Cross-posting of FAQs will be allowed, but any other cross-posted
   messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
   other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  Spam that
   is cross-posted may be deleted.

Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged
to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to,
the following:

     - Fat-acceptance political activism
     - Events relating to fat-acceptance
     - Medical research and related research papers
     - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including
       nutrition and exercise for large people)
     - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order
       catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to
       requests for such information
     - Personal anecdotes about being fat
     - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements
     - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs

Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
================================

The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by
the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks
will be used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort.

Amending This Charter
=====================

This charter cannot be amended, however the moderators reserve the
right to modify the moderation policy at any time to maintain the
spirit of the charter.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

Moderator: Siobhan Perricone 
Moderator: Nully Fydyan 
Moderator: Mary-Anne Wolf 
Moderator: Sharon Curtis 
Moderator: Jean Crawford 
Moderator: Jessica Hankins 
Moderator: Moira Harris 
Moderator: Tina Marie 
Moderator: Stef Maruch 
Moderator: Annette M. Stroud 

END MODERATOR INFO.

                Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for:
          soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderation style

What is the purpose of the FAQ?

This FAQ serves to answer questions about how moderation is performed
on the soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (ssfam) newsgroup.

======================================================================

What types of posts will be disallowed on the newsgroup?

1. Trolls
2. Spam
3. Personal Attacks
4. Inappropriate posts
5. Binaries
6. Cross posts

1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to
   provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.

2. Spam is an off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of
   commercialism or zealotry.

3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the
   newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.
   For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,
   but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific
   allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that
   poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as
   personal attacks.

4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support
   group for people who want a break from the "weight control is
   good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western
   society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical
   information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight
   control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of
   messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about
   these topics will not be approved:

   (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,
       or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,
       drugs, exercise, and other methods will not be approved.
       (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages
       that say "even though [weight control method] is not for
       everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this
       restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-
       acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed
       his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail
       about a particular method for weight control that worked for
       the poster will be considered advocacy unless the surrounding
       fat-acceptance context is clear.

       Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for
       same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight
       control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of
       scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the
       refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.

       Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not
       advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about
       exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about
       exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.

   (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those
       of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell
       a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in
       large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more
       than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point
       people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before
       being posted in order to confirm that the products are
       actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in
       the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators
       will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site
       does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all
       future posts from that vendor may be rejected.

       The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise
       fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's
       primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.

       If the moderators believe that the amount or type of
       advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of
       the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put
       additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This
       change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation
       mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of
       the moderators.

       Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept
       personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online
       Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to
       soc.personals.

5. Binaries, with the exception small binaries used to authenticate
   (E.g. PGP keys), will be filtered out.

6. Cross-posting of FAQs will be allowed, but any other cross-posted
   messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
   other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  Spam that
   is cross-posted may be deleted.

======================================================================

Where can I post things that aren't appropriate to this newsgroup?

Personal ads can be posted to soc.personals or any number of web
sites set up for that purpose.

Discussion weight loss and weight control methods may be posted to:
alt.support.diet
alt.support.diet.fit-for-life
alt.support.diet.low-carb
alt.support.diet.rx
alt.support.diet.zone
sci.med.nutrition

Spam and Trolling are not appropriate for any newsgroup.

If you want to post flames go to one of the many flame groups
available in the alt.* hierarchy.

There are many alt.binaries newsgroups if you want to exchange
binaries.

======================================================================

What will the user see of moderation?

Software will notice new posters and will send them a greeting. That
greeting will contain a form for them to fill out indicating their
familiarity with the etiquette of the newsgroup and their agreement
to follow those rules. Once the new posters agree, the first posts
they send to the newsgroup will be hand moderated. After the
moderators are convinced the user intends to follow the rules of
the newsgroup, they will allowed to post without human intervention
as long as they follow these rules.

Posters who continually violate these rules will be warned at least
three times by the moderators.  Posters who are repeatedly warned
yet still violate the rules may be put on a list of people who
will be hand moderated.  If posters don't re-violate the rules for 30
days after a warning, the warning goes away and they get a clean
slate.  However, someone who habitually breaks the rules every 31 (or
so) days, will be subject to hand moderation at the discretion of the
moderators.

To be removed from this list after being placed there for the first
time, posters must send e-mail to the moderators promising to follow
the above rules. The moderators will then reinstate them.

The second time they are put on the list, they may be there for a
minimum of one month.  After the month has expired they can again ask
to be removed from the hand moderation list.  If they have not
violated the charter during the last month their request will be
granted.

Thereafter, posters who have been placed in the hand moderation list
will be automatically brought to the attention of the moderators at
six-month intervals. At this point, the moderators will then decide
whether or not to remove the posters from the hand moderation list.

======================================================================

What else will be disapproved by the moderators?

Any thread which seems to be in danger of venturing into personal
attack or troll territory will be moderated by hand, subject to the
other limitations of the moderation process discussed in the next
sections.

======================================================================

What cross-posts will be allowed?

Cross-posting of FAQs will be allowed, but any other cross-posted
messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  Spam that is
cross-posted may be deleted.

======================================================================

How will hand moderation be performed?

Any time a moderator chooses to perform this function they will send
a message to the moderation site.  They will then be put on a list of
'online moderators'.  These moderators will have posts sent to them
in a round robin fashion.  They can specify how many outstanding
messages they can have.  The system will send no more than that many
messages to them at one time.

Upon receiving the message, the moderator can accept or reject the
post.  If the post is rejected, they can select one of several boiler
plate replies, or write one of their own.  All moderator replies will
be copied to the fatmods list.

If the message is not received back at the moderation site within
half an hour, the message is resent.  If it is still not received
within another half hour, the post will be sent to the next available
moderator, and the unavailable moderator will be automatically logged
out.

When a moderator logs out, any messages that they have not replied to
will be sent to the next available moderator.

======================================================================

What can I do if a message is rejected, or if I have other questions
regarding posts?

There is a mailing list, [email protected], that
will reach all the moderators.  If you feel like your message should
not have been rejected feel free to contact the moderators as a
group.  If any one of the moderators thinks that the message should
not have been rejected, it will be posted.  If any one of the
moderators thinks the message should not have been rejected, you may
resubmit it and it will be posted.

The moderators reserve the right to ignore mail that is clearly
abusive. It should be remembered that the moderators are volunteers
and that they are attempting to be as fair as possible in this
situation - and as such should not be expected to be treated as a
"shooting gallery".

======================================================================

What can be done about problems with the moderation panel?

Discussion of how well moderation is going, in general, may take
place on the newsgroup.  Such posts should have META: prepended to
the subject line.

If discussion of the mechanics of moderation begins to take over
the newsgroup, the moderators will ask people to move the
discussion to the listserv.

The moderators reserve the right to require that such discussion
take place on the listserv, but will do that only if the public
request to do so is largely ignored and the discussion continues
to negatively affect the supportive atmosphere of the newsgroup.

Anyone interested in the moderation discussion should post to:
[email protected].  This list is publicly accessible, and
anyone who wants to join can send a message to famod-request or
famod-digest-request on the same machine with the word 'subscribe' in
the body of the message.

The people who participate on this listserv have no official power.
This list is simply a publicly accessible place where people can air
their grievances. It is to be understood that bringing a post to this
list is accepting the greater propagation of the more public list.

If a majority of the moderators decide that a moderator is indeed
abusing his or her power, he or she will be removed from the list of
moderators or censured at the discretion of the majority of
moderators.

An oversight committee consisting of Siobhan Perricone ,
Nully Fydyan , and
Mary-Anne Wolf  has been created.  They have
agreed to monitor all traffic on the moderators' and public mailing
lists.  They are listed in the RFD as official moderators but do not
process messages.  Instead they act on behalf of the posters to
ensure that the moderators act within the spirit of the charter.

The moderators who will be processing posts have agreed to abdicate
as a group if Siobhan Perricone , Nully Fydyan
, and/or Mary-Anne Wolf 
feel it to be necessary.  All future moderators who are added to the
list must also agree to this.

In the event of abdication, the moderation address will be changed to
a new group of moderators if a group acceptable to the oversight
moderators is found. If not, the moderators will have no alternative
but to comply with the Usenet requirement that they generate a
request to remove the group from Usenet.

======================================================================

How many moderators will there be?

The number of moderators processing posts shall be no more than nine
(9) and no less than three (3) moderators.  The number of oversight
moderators will be three (3).

======================================================================

How can moderators be added?

When the current moderators deem it necessary to add to the number
of moderators processing posts or to replace those who are leaving,
the moderation panel will solicit volunteers from the newsgroup
participants.  A volunteer must be approved by a 2/3 majority of
the current moderators (including the oversight moderators).

Oversight moderators can only be replaced by moderators who have been
on the list of moderators who process posts for at least six months
and who are not strenuously objected to by the current regular users
of the newsgroup (this is important because the oversight moderators
are responsible for making sure that the post processing moderators
act within the spirit of the charter).  If an oversight moderator
needs to be replaced, discussion of the replacement candidates will
take place either on the newsgroup or on the listservs (if the
newsgroup discussion is deemed disruptive by the moderators).  A 2/3
majority of the current moderators (including the oversight
moderators) is necessary for a replacement oversight moderator to be
approved.

======================================================================

Who are the moderators?

The moderators processing posts for the newsgroup are
(in alphabetical order by last name):

Sharon Curtis 
Jean Crawford 
Jessica Hankins 
Moira Harris 
Tina Marie 
Stef Maruch 
Annette M. Stroud 

You can reach the moderators at: [email protected]
Just send your messages to that address.

The moderators who are acting on the oversight committee are (in
alphabetical order by last name):

Nully Fydyan 
Siobhan Perricone 
Mary-Anne Wolf 

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this
phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed
newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will
continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD
for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which
a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the
discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this
happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and
"How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to
these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have
any questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
soc.support.fat-acceptance
alt.support.big-folks.

Proponent: Siobhan Perricone 

From [email protected] Thu Jul  1 18:14:05 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin 
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.support.big-folks,soc.support.fat-acceptance
Subject: CFV: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 24 Jul 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 01:04:13 GMT
Lines: 645
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11080 news.groups:320482 soc.support.fat-acceptance:70158

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
         moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:
soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 23 Jul 1999.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Siobhan Perricone 
Mentor: Jay Denebeim 
Votetaker: Neil Crellin 

RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups,
alt.support.big-folks and soc.support.fat-acceptance,
that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement
and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than
average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by
trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people
and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to
create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that
is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.

CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the
personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics
relevant to being fat. This is a support group. Abuse of individuals
and groups based on their appearance is not tolerated. All self-
defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards
self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour
aspects of size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are
building a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The
important thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal
attacks (see the policy statement for details on this issue).

Moderation policy:

Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post
messages on topics including, but not limited to, the following:

     - Fat-acceptance political activism
     - Events relating to fat-acceptance
     - Medical research and related research papers
     - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including
       nutrition and exercise for large people)
     - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order
       catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to
       requests for such information
     - Personal anecdotes about being fat
     - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements
     - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs

Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is moderated to block the
following specific types of posts:

1. Trolls
2. Off-topic, promotional posts
3. Personal Attacks
4. Inappropriate posts
5. Binaries
6. Cross posts

1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to
   provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.

2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or
   zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the
   definition of spam by being posted multiple times).

3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the
   newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.
   For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,
   but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific
   allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that
   poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as
   personal attacks.

4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support
   group for people who want a break from the "weight control is
   good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western
   society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical
   information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight
   control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of
   messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about
   these topics are not approved:

   (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,
       or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,
       drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.
       (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages
       that say "even though [weight control method] is not for
       everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this
       restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-
       acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed
       his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail
       about a particular method for weight control that worked for
       the poster is considered advocacy unless the surrounding
       fat-acceptance context is clear.

       Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for
       same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight
       control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of
       scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the
       refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.

       Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not
       advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about
       exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about
       exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.

   (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those
       of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell
       a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in
       large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more
       than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point
       people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before
       being posted in order to confirm that the products are
       actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in
       the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators
       will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site
       does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all
       future posts from that vendor may be rejected.

       The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise
       fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's
       primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.

       If the moderators believe that the amount or type of
       advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of
       the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put
       additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This
       change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation
       mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of
       the moderators.

       Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept
       personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online
       Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to
       soc.personals.

5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g. PGP keys), are
   filtered out.

6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted
   messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
   other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.

Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
--------------------------------

The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by
the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks
are used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort. The
moderation style FAQ appended below is part of said web site and is
posted twice a month to soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated.

Amending This Charter
---------------------

This charter cannot be amended because there is no widely accepted
way to do charter amendment in the Big 8. Should this change, the
Charter will be amendable according to the new policy. The moderators
reserve the right to change the moderation policy at any time to
maintain the spirit of the charter.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

Moderator: Siobhan Perricone 
Moderator: Nully Fydyan 
Moderator: Mary-Anne Wolf 
Moderator: Sharon Curtis 
Moderator: Jean Crawford 
Moderator: Jessica Hankins 
Moderator: Moira Harris 
Moderator: Tina Marie 
Moderator: Stef Maruch 
Moderator: "Annette M. Stroud" 
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
Article submission address: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

The section that follows will be the FAQ for moderation, but is
included here because it was part of the RFD.

                Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for:
          soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderation style

What is the purpose of the FAQ?

This FAQ serves to answer questions about how moderation is performed on
the soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (ssfam) newsgroup. The section
on what encouraged and not allowed is taken directly from the Charter.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What types of posts are encouraged on the newsgroup?

Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged
to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to,
the following:

     - Fat-acceptance political activism
     - Events relating to fat-acceptance
     - Medical research and related research papers
     - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including
       nutrition and exercise for large people)
     - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order
       catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to
       requests for such information
     - Personal anecdotes about being fat
     - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements
     - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What types of posts are disallowed on the newsgroup?

1. Trolls
2. Off-topic, promotional posts
3. Personal Attacks
4. Inappropriate posts
5. Binaries
6. Cross posts

1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to
   provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.

2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or
   zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the
   definition of spam by being posted multiple times).

3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the
   newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.
   For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,
   but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific
   allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that
   poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as
   personal attacks.

4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support
   group for people who want a break from the "weight control is
   good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western
   society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical
   information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight
   control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of
   messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about
   these topics are not approved:

   (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,
       or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,
       drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.
       (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages
       that say "even though [weight control method] is not for
       everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this
       restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-
       acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed
       his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail
       about a particular method for weight control that worked for
       the poster are considered advocacy unless the surrounding
       fat-acceptance context is clear.

       Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for
       same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight
       control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of
       scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the
       refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.

       Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not
       advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about
       exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about
       exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.

   (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those
       of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell
       a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in
       large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more
       than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point
       people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before
       being posted in order to confirm that the products are
       actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in
       the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators
       will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site
       does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all
       future posts from that vendor may be rejected.

       The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise
       fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's
       primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.

       If the moderators believe that the amount or type of
       advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of
       the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put
       additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This
       change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation
       mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of
       the moderators.

       Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept
       personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online
       Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to
       soc.personals.

5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g., PGP keys),
   are filtered out.

6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted
   messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
   other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where can I post things that aren't appropriate to this newsgroup?

Personal ads can be posted to soc.personals or any number of web
sites set up for that purpose. They are listed in the Online Resources
for Big Folks FAQ.

Discussion weight loss and weight control methods may be posted to:
alt.support.diet
alt.support.diet.fit-for-life
alt.support.diet.low-carb
alt.support.diet.rx
alt.support.diet.zone
sci.med.nutrition

If you want to post flames go to one of the many flame groups
available in the alt.* hierarchy.

There are many alt.binaries newsgroups if you want to exchange
binaries.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What does the user see of moderation?

Software notices new posters and sends them a greeting. That
greeting contains a form for them to fill out indicating their
familiarity with the etiquette of the newsgroup and their agreement
to follow those rules. Once the new posters agree, the first posts
they send to the newsgroup will be hand moderated. After the
moderators are convinced the user intends to follow the rules of
the newsgroup, they are allowed to post without human intervention
as long as they follow these rules.

Currently people must use a replyable address when posting to ssfa-m.
The moderators will provide technical assistance on avoiding spam and
may address the issue in other ways if it turns out to be a
significant problem for posters.

Posters who continually violate these rules are warned at least
three times by the moderators.  Posters who are repeatedly warned
yet still violate the rules may be put on a list of people who
are hand moderated.  If posters don't re-violate the rules for 30
days after a warning, the warning goes away and they get a clean
slate.  However, someone who habitually breaks the rules every 31 (or
so) days is subject to hand moderation at the discretion of the
moderators.

To be removed from this list after being placed there for the first
time, posters must send e-mail to the moderators promising to follow
the above rules. The moderators then reinstate them.

The second time they are put on the list, they may be there for a
minimum of one month.  After the month has expired they can again ask
to be removed from the hand moderation list.  If they have not
violated the charter during the last month their request will be
granted.

Thereafter, posters who have been placed in the hand moderation list
are automatically brought to the attention of the moderators at
six-month intervals. At this point, the moderators decide
whether or not to remove the posters from the hand moderation list.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What else is disapproved by the moderators?

Any thread which seems to be in danger of venturing into personal
attack or troll territory is moderated by hand, subject to the
other limitations of the moderation process discussed in the next
sections.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What cross-posts are allowed?

Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted
messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

How is hand moderation be performed?

Any time a moderator chooses to perform this function they send
a message to the moderation site.  They are then put on a list of
'online moderators'.  These moderators have posts sent to them
in a round robin fashion.  They can specify how many outstanding
messages they can have.  The system sends no more than that many
messages to them at one time.

Upon receiving the message, the moderator can accept or reject the
post.  If the post is rejected, they can select one of several boiler
plate replies, or write one of their own.  All moderator replies are
copied to the fatmods list.

If the message is not received back at the moderation site within
half an hour, the message is resent.  If it is still not received
within another half hour, the post is sent to the next available
moderator, and the unavailable moderator is automatically logged
out.

When a moderator logs out, any messages that they have not replied to
are sent to the next available moderator.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What can I do if a message is rejected, or if I have other questions
regarding posts?

There is a mailing list, [email protected], that
will reach all the moderators.  If you feel like your message should
not have been rejected feel free to contact the moderators as a
group.  If any one of the moderators thinks the message should not have
been rejected, you may resubmit it and it will be posted.

The moderators reserve the right to ignore mail that is clearly
abusive. It should be remembered that the moderators are volunteers
and that they are attempting to be as fair as possible in this
situation - and as such should not be expected to be treated as a
"shooting gallery".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What can be done about problems with the moderation panel?

Discussion of how well moderation is going, in general, may take
place on the newsgroup.  Such posts should have META: prepended to
the subject line.

If discussion of the mechanics of moderation begins to take over
the newsgroup, the moderators will ask people to move the
discussion to the listserv.

The moderators reserve the right to require that such discussion
take place on the listserv, but will do that only if the public
request to do so is largely ignored and the discussion continues
to negatively affect the supportive atmosphere of the newsgroup.

Anyone interested in the moderation discussion should post to:
[email protected].  This list is publicly accessible, and
anyone who wants to join can send a message to famod-request or
famod-digest-request on the same machine with the word 'subscribe' in
the body of the message.

The people who participate on this listserv have no official power.
This list is simply a publicly accessible place where people can air
their grievances. It is to be understood that bringing a post to this
list is accepting the greater propagation of the more public list.

If a majority of the moderators decide that a moderator is indeed
abusing his or her power, he or she will be removed from the list of
moderators or censured at the discretion of the majority of
moderators.

An oversight committee consisting of Siobhan Perricone ,
Nully Fydyan , and Mary-Anne Wolf 
has been created.  They have agreed to monitor all traffic on the moderators'
and public mailing lists.  They are listed in the RFD as official moderators
but do not process messages.  Instead they act on behalf of the posters to
ensure that the moderators act within the spirit of the charter.

The moderators who are processing posts have agreed to abdicate
as a group if Siobhan Perricone , Nully Fydyan
, and/or Mary-Anne Wolf 
feel it to be necessary.  All future moderators who are added to the
list must also agree to this.

In the event of abdication, the moderation address will be changed to
a new group of moderators if a group acceptable to the oversight
moderators is found. If not, the moderators will have no alternative
but to comply with the Usenet requirement that they generate a
request to remove the group from Usenet.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many moderators will there be?

The number of moderators processing posts shall be no more than nine
(9) and no less than three (3) moderators.  The number of oversight
moderators will be three (3).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can moderators be added?

When the current moderators deem it necessary to add to the number
of moderators processing posts or to replace those who are leaving,
the moderation panel will solicit volunteers from the newsgroup
participants.  A volunteer must be approved by a 2/3 majority of
the current moderators (including the oversight moderators).

Oversight moderators can only be replaced by moderators who have been
on the list of moderators who process posts for at least six months
and who are not strenuously objected to by the current regular users
of the newsgroup (this is important because the oversight moderators
are responsible for making sure that the post processing moderators
act within the spirit of the charter).  If an oversight moderator
needs to be replaced, discussion of the replacement candidates will
take place either on the newsgroup or on the listservs (if the
newsgroup discussion is deemed disruptive by the moderators).  A 2/3
majority of the current moderators (including the oversight
moderators) is necessary for a replacement oversight moderator to be
approved.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who are the moderators?

The moderators processing posts for the newsgroup are
(in alphabetical order by last name):

Sharon Curtis 
Jean Crawford 
Jessica Hankins 
Moira Harris 
Tina Marie 
Stef Maruch 
Annette M. Stroud 

You can reach the moderators at: [email protected]
Just send your messages to that address.

The moderators who are acting on the oversight committee are (in
alphabetical order by last name):

Nully Fydyan 
Siobhan Perricone 
Mary-Anne Wolf 

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent
accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged"
address he cannot decipher immediately.

Please direct any questions to the votetaker at 

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.

If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (moderated)

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

DISTRIBUTION:

The CFV and the eventual RESULT will be posted to the groups named in
the Newsgroups: header.

Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be mailed to these lists:

fat-acceptance 
Fat and Fit 
fa-diab 
NAAFA 
fatdykes (list admin: [email protected])


This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999).
PQ datestamp: 980322

-- 
Voting address: [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Jul 12 06:43:38 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin 
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.support.big-folks,soc.support.fat-acceptance
Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 24 Jul 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:37:24 GMT
Lines: 657
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11086 news.groups:321593 soc.support.fat-acceptance:71373

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
         moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:
soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 23 Jul 1999.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Siobhan Perricone 
Mentor: Jay Denebeim 
Votetaker: Neil Crellin 

RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups,
alt.support.big-folks and soc.support.fat-acceptance,
that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement
and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than
average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by
trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people
and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to
create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that
is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.

CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the
personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics
relevant to being fat. This is a support group. Abuse of individuals
and groups based on their appearance is not tolerated. All self-
defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards
self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour
aspects of size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are
building a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The
important thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal
attacks (see the policy statement for details on this issue).

Moderation policy:

Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post
messages on topics including, but not limited to, the following:

     - Fat-acceptance political activism
     - Events relating to fat-acceptance
     - Medical research and related research papers
     - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including
       nutrition and exercise for large people)
     - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order
       catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to
       requests for such information
     - Personal anecdotes about being fat
     - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements
     - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs

Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is moderated to block the
following specific types of posts:

1. Trolls
2. Off-topic, promotional posts
3. Personal Attacks
4. Inappropriate posts
5. Binaries
6. Cross posts

1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to
   provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.

2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or
   zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the
   definition of spam by being posted multiple times).

3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the
   newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.
   For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,
   but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific
   allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that
   poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as
   personal attacks.

4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support
   group for people who want a break from the "weight control is
   good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western
   society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical
   information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight
   control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of
   messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about
   these topics are not approved:

   (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,
       or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,
       drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.
       (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages
       that say "even though [weight control method] is not for
       everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this
       restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-
       acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed
       his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail
       about a particular method for weight control that worked for
       the poster is considered advocacy unless the surrounding
       fat-acceptance context is clear.

       Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for
       same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight
       control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of
       scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the
       refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.

       Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not
       advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about
       exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about
       exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.

   (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those
       of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell
       a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in
       large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more
       than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point
       people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before
       being posted in order to confirm that the products are
       actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in
       the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators
       will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site
       does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all
       future posts from that vendor may be rejected.

       The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise
       fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's
       primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.

       If the moderators believe that the amount or type of
       advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of
       the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put
       additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This
       change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation
       mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of
       the moderators.

       Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept
       personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online
       Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to
       soc.personals.

5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g. PGP keys), are
   filtered out.

6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted
   messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
   other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.

Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
--------------------------------

The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by
the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks
are used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort. The
moderation style FAQ appended below is part of said web site and is
posted twice a month to soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated.

Amending This Charter
---------------------

This charter cannot be amended because there is no widely accepted
way to do charter amendment in the Big 8. Should this change, the
Charter will be amendable according to the new policy. The moderators
reserve the right to change the moderation policy at any time to
maintain the spirit of the charter.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

Moderator: Siobhan Perricone 
Moderator: Nully Fydyan 
Moderator: Mary-Anne Wolf 
Moderator: Sharon Curtis 
Moderator: Jean Crawford 
Moderator: Jessica Hankins 
Moderator: Moira Harris 
Moderator: Tina Marie 
Moderator: Stef Maruch 
Moderator: "Annette M. Stroud" 
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
Article submission address: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

The section that follows will be the FAQ for moderation, but is
included here because it was part of the RFD.

                Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for:
          soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderation style

What is the purpose of the FAQ?

This FAQ serves to answer questions about how moderation is performed on
the soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (ssfam) newsgroup. The section
on what encouraged and not allowed is taken directly from the Charter.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What types of posts are encouraged on the newsgroup?

Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged
to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to,
the following:

     - Fat-acceptance political activism
     - Events relating to fat-acceptance
     - Medical research and related research papers
     - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including
       nutrition and exercise for large people)
     - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order
       catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to
       requests for such information
     - Personal anecdotes about being fat
     - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements
     - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What types of posts are disallowed on the newsgroup?

1. Trolls
2. Off-topic, promotional posts
3. Personal Attacks
4. Inappropriate posts
5. Binaries
6. Cross posts

1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to
   provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.

2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or
   zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the
   definition of spam by being posted multiple times).

3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the
   newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.
   For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,
   but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific
   allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that
   poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as
   personal attacks.

4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support
   group for people who want a break from the "weight control is
   good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western
   society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical
   information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight
   control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of
   messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about
   these topics are not approved:

   (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,
       or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,
       drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.
       (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages
       that say "even though [weight control method] is not for
       everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this
       restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-
       acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed
       his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail
       about a particular method for weight control that worked for
       the poster are considered advocacy unless the surrounding
       fat-acceptance context is clear.

       Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for
       same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight
       control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of
       scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the
       refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.

       Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not
       advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about
       exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about
       exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.

   (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those
       of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell
       a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in
       large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more
       than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point
       people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before
       being posted in order to confirm that the products are
       actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in
       the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators
       will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site
       does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all
       future posts from that vendor may be rejected.

       The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise
       fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's
       primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.

       If the moderators believe that the amount or type of
       advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of
       the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put
       additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This
       change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation
       mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of
       the moderators.

       Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept
       personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online
       Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to
       soc.personals.

5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g., PGP keys),
   are filtered out.

6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted
   messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
   other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where can I post things that aren't appropriate to this newsgroup?

Personal ads can be posted to soc.personals or any number of web
sites set up for that purpose. They are listed in the Online Resources
for Big Folks FAQ.

Discussion weight loss and weight control methods may be posted to:
alt.support.diet
alt.support.diet.fit-for-life
alt.support.diet.low-carb
alt.support.diet.rx
alt.support.diet.zone
sci.med.nutrition

If you want to post flames go to one of the many flame groups
available in the alt.* hierarchy.

There are many alt.binaries newsgroups if you want to exchange
binaries.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What does the user see of moderation?

Software notices new posters and sends them a greeting. That
greeting contains a form for them to fill out indicating their
familiarity with the etiquette of the newsgroup and their agreement
to follow those rules. Once the new posters agree, the first posts
they send to the newsgroup will be hand moderated. After the
moderators are convinced the user intends to follow the rules of
the newsgroup, they are allowed to post without human intervention
as long as they follow these rules.

Currently people must use a replyable address when posting to ssfa-m.
The moderators will provide technical assistance on avoiding spam and
may address the issue in other ways if it turns out to be a
significant problem for posters.

Posters who continually violate these rules are warned at least
three times by the moderators.  Posters who are repeatedly warned
yet still violate the rules may be put on a list of people who
are hand moderated.  If posters don't re-violate the rules for 30
days after a warning, the warning goes away and they get a clean
slate.  However, someone who habitually breaks the rules every 31 (or
so) days is subject to hand moderation at the discretion of the
moderators.

To be removed from this list after being placed there for the first
time, posters must send e-mail to the moderators promising to follow
the above rules. The moderators then reinstate them.

The second time they are put on the list, they may be there for a
minimum of one month.  After the month has expired they can again ask
to be removed from the hand moderation list.  If they have not
violated the charter during the last month their request will be
granted.

Thereafter, posters who have been placed in the hand moderation list
are automatically brought to the attention of the moderators at
six-month intervals. At this point, the moderators decide
whether or not to remove the posters from the hand moderation list.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What else is disapproved by the moderators?

Any thread which seems to be in danger of venturing into personal
attack or troll territory is moderated by hand, subject to the
other limitations of the moderation process discussed in the next
sections.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What cross-posts are allowed?

Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted
messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

How is hand moderation be performed?

Any time a moderator chooses to perform this function they send
a message to the moderation site.  They are then put on a list of
'online moderators'.  These moderators have posts sent to them
in a round robin fashion.  They can specify how many outstanding
messages they can have.  The system sends no more than that many
messages to them at one time.

Upon receiving the message, the moderator can accept or reject the
post.  If the post is rejected, they can select one of several boiler
plate replies, or write one of their own.  All moderator replies are
copied to the fatmods list.

If the message is not received back at the moderation site within
half an hour, the message is resent.  If it is still not received
within another half hour, the post is sent to the next available
moderator, and the unavailable moderator is automatically logged
out.

When a moderator logs out, any messages that they have not replied to
are sent to the next available moderator.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What can I do if a message is rejected, or if I have other questions
regarding posts?

There is a mailing list, [email protected], that
will reach all the moderators.  If you feel like your message should
not have been rejected feel free to contact the moderators as a
group.  If any one of the moderators thinks the message should not have
been rejected, you may resubmit it and it will be posted.

The moderators reserve the right to ignore mail that is clearly
abusive. It should be remembered that the moderators are volunteers
and that they are attempting to be as fair as possible in this
situation - and as such should not be expected to be treated as a
"shooting gallery".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What can be done about problems with the moderation panel?

Discussion of how well moderation is going, in general, may take
place on the newsgroup.  Such posts should have META: prepended to
the subject line.

If discussion of the mechanics of moderation begins to take over
the newsgroup, the moderators will ask people to move the
discussion to the listserv.

The moderators reserve the right to require that such discussion
take place on the listserv, but will do that only if the public
request to do so is largely ignored and the discussion continues
to negatively affect the supportive atmosphere of the newsgroup.

Anyone interested in the moderation discussion should post to:
[email protected].  This list is publicly accessible, and
anyone who wants to join can send a message to famod-request or
famod-digest-request on the same machine with the word 'subscribe' in
the body of the message.

The people who participate on this listserv have no official power.
This list is simply a publicly accessible place where people can air
their grievances. It is to be understood that bringing a post to this
list is accepting the greater propagation of the more public list.

If a majority of the moderators decide that a moderator is indeed
abusing his or her power, he or she will be removed from the list of
moderators or censured at the discretion of the majority of
moderators.

An oversight committee consisting of Siobhan Perricone ,
Nully Fydyan , and Mary-Anne Wolf 
has been created.  They have agreed to monitor all traffic on the moderators'
and public mailing lists.  They are listed in the RFD as official moderators
but do not process messages.  Instead they act on behalf of the posters to
ensure that the moderators act within the spirit of the charter.

The moderators who are processing posts have agreed to abdicate
as a group if Siobhan Perricone , Nully Fydyan
, and/or Mary-Anne Wolf 
feel it to be necessary.  All future moderators who are added to the
list must also agree to this.

In the event of abdication, the moderation address will be changed to
a new group of moderators if a group acceptable to the oversight
moderators is found. If not, the moderators will have no alternative
but to comply with the Usenet requirement that they generate a
request to remove the group from Usenet.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many moderators will there be?

The number of moderators processing posts shall be no more than nine
(9) and no less than three (3) moderators.  The number of oversight
moderators will be three (3).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can moderators be added?

When the current moderators deem it necessary to add to the number
of moderators processing posts or to replace those who are leaving,
the moderation panel will solicit volunteers from the newsgroup
participants.  A volunteer must be approved by a 2/3 majority of
the current moderators (including the oversight moderators).

Oversight moderators can only be replaced by moderators who have been
on the list of moderators who process posts for at least six months
and who are not strenuously objected to by the current regular users
of the newsgroup (this is important because the oversight moderators
are responsible for making sure that the post processing moderators
act within the spirit of the charter).  If an oversight moderator
needs to be replaced, discussion of the replacement candidates will
take place either on the newsgroup or on the listservs (if the
newsgroup discussion is deemed disruptive by the moderators).  A 2/3
majority of the current moderators (including the oversight
moderators) is necessary for a replacement oversight moderator to be
approved.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who are the moderators?

The moderators processing posts for the newsgroup are
(in alphabetical order by last name):

Sharon Curtis 
Jean Crawford 
Jessica Hankins 
Moira Harris 
Tina Marie 
Stef Maruch 
Annette M. Stroud 

You can reach the moderators at: [email protected]
Just send your messages to that address.

The moderators who are acting on the oversight committee are (in
alphabetical order by last name):

Nully Fydyan 
Siobhan Perricone 
Mary-Anne Wolf 

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent
accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged"
address he cannot decipher immediately.

Please direct any questions to the votetaker at 

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.

If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (moderated)

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

DISTRIBUTION:

The CFV and the eventual RESULT will be posted to the groups named in
the Newsgroups: header.

Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be mailed to these lists:

fat-acceptance 
Fat and Fit 
fa-diab 
NAAFA 
fatdykes (list admin: [email protected])


soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Bounce List - Please contact me about your vote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                                   Bill White
[email protected]                                                David Wolff
[email protected]                                  Kent Leonard


Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.support.big-folks,soc.support.fat-acceptance
Subject: RESULT: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated passes 310:67
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:27:22 GMT
Lines: 620
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11101 news.groups:322865 soc.support.fat-acceptance:73010

                                RESULT
  moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated passes 310:67

There were 310 YES votes and 67 NO votes, for a total of 377 valid
votes.  There were 11 abstentions and 5 invalid ballots.

For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
(YES and NO) votes.  There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes.

A five day discussion period follows this announcement.  If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
thereafter.

Newsgroups line:
soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)

The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 23 Jul 1999.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Siobhan Perricone 
Mentor: Jay Denebeim 
Votetaker: Neil Crellin 

RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups,
alt.support.big-folks and soc.support.fat-acceptance,
that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement
and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than
average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by
trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people
and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to
create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that
is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.

CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the
personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics
relevant to being fat. This is a support group. Abuse of individuals
and groups based on their appearance is not tolerated. All self-
defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards
self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour
aspects of size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are
building a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The
important thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal
attacks (see the policy statement for details on this issue).

Moderation policy:

Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post
messages on topics including, but not limited to, the following:

     - Fat-acceptance political activism
     - Events relating to fat-acceptance
     - Medical research and related research papers
     - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including
       nutrition and exercise for large people)
     - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order
       catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to
       requests for such information
     - Personal anecdotes about being fat
     - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements
     - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs

Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is moderated to block the
following specific types of posts:

1. Trolls
2. Off-topic, promotional posts
3. Personal Attacks
4. Inappropriate posts
5. Binaries
6. Cross posts

1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to
   provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.

2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or
   zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the
   definition of spam by being posted multiple times).

3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the
   newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.
   For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,
   but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific
   allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that
   poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as
   personal attacks.

4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support
   group for people who want a break from the "weight control is
   good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western
   society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical
   information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight
   control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of
   messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about
   these topics are not approved:

   (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,
       or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,
       drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.
       (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages
       that say "even though [weight control method] is not for
       everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this
       restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-
       acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed
       his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail
       about a particular method for weight control that worked for
       the poster is considered advocacy unless the surrounding
       fat-acceptance context is clear.

       Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for
       same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight
       control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of
       scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the
       refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.

       Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not
       advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about
       exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about
       exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.

   (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those
       of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell
       a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in
       large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more
       than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point
       people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before
       being posted in order to confirm that the products are
       actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in
       the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators
       will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site
       does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all
       future posts from that vendor may be rejected.

       The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise
       fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's
       primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.

       If the moderators believe that the amount or type of
       advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of
       the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put
       additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This
       change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation
       mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of
       the moderators.

       Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept
       personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online
       Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to
       soc.personals.

5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g. PGP keys), are
   filtered out.

6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted
   messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all
   other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.

Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
--------------------------------

The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by
the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks
are used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort. The
moderation style FAQ appended below is part of said web site and is
posted twice a month to soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated.

Amending This Charter
---------------------

This charter cannot be amended because there is no widely accepted
way to do charter amendment in the Big 8. Should this change, the
Charter will be amendable according to the new policy. The moderators
reserve the right to change the moderation policy at any time to
maintain the spirit of the charter.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated

Moderator: Siobhan Perricone 
Moderator: Nully Fydyan 
Moderator: Mary-Anne Wolf 
Moderator: Sharon Curtis 
Moderator: Jean Crawford 
Moderator: Jessica Hankins 
Moderator: Moira Harris 
Moderator: Tina Marie 
Moderator: Stef Maruch 
Moderator: "Annette M. Stroud" 
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
Article submission address: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.


soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Final Voter list

NOTE:  This is not [to be used as] a mailing list.  The email addresses
are posted only to help verify the interest poll.  Thank you.

Voted YES
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tonib [at] tpg.com.au                                      Antoinette Buchanan
dany.steyaert [at] ping.be                                       Dany Steyaert
af975 [at] freenet.carleton.ca                           Jennifer-Anne Coulter
ax976 [at] freenet.carleton.ca                                   Neena Singhal
eg414 [at] freenet.carleton.ca                                    Tina M. Wood
rich [at] alcor.concordia.ca                                     Rich Lafferty
zivkoi [at] muss.cis.McMaster.CA                                      I. Zivko
tofu [at] fountain.nslug.ns.ca                              Ariannah Armstrong
synrg [at] sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca                                 Ben Armstrong
trevort [at] inorth.on.ca                                       Trevor Tymchuk
travis [at] SEDSystems.ca                                   Shane H. W. Travis
tvor [at] ns.sympatico.ca                                       DIANE JOHNSTON
sanderso [at] uoguelph.ca                                      Sherry Anderson
ru [at] cls.usask.ca                                               Ru Igarashi
Lorene.Turner [at] usask.ca                                      Lorene Turner
silvertiger [at] shaw.wave.ca                                   Leslie Lalonde
Geri_Finkelstein [at] notes.amdahl.com                        Geri Finkelstein
Alphabet40 [at] aol.com                                        Amelia Johnston
amuse2000 [at] aol.com                                            Marie Wilson
aquafool [at] aol.com                                              Helen Woods
basche41 [at] aol.com                                            Lori Lawrence
BethA1515 [at] aol.com                                             Beth Vechey
blueiris44 [at] aol.com                                              Emma Hunt
BobSJers [at] aol.com                                         Robert Sponaugle
BrinInSF [at] aol.com                                    Brin-Marie McLaughlin
ComplexGal [at] aol.com                                  Kathleen  Ford Siegel
ConnieG999 [at] aol.com
dasjem [at] aol.com                                              James McElroy
DebBurgard [at] aol.com                                            Deb Burgard
e2chris2 [at] aol.com                                            Chris Statler
evie64288 [at] aol.com                                          Evelyn McElroy
holly32644 [at] aol.com                                          Holly Culleen
JElaineB [at] aol.com                                        Jennifer Bertrand
JenknRankn [at] aol.com                                            Olwen Moery
jeremymcm1 [at] aol.com                                        Jeremy McMillan
Jgillmer [at] aol.com                                             Jeff Gillmer
joanne1288 [at] aol.com                                        Jo Anne Dickson
kiwilerner [at] aol.com                                            Kira Lerner
LiyaSedai [at] aol.com                                           Aurelia Smith
Mabray44 [at] aol.com                                            Mary Ann Bray
Miditrax [at] aol.com                                                 Miditrax
peppercini [at] aol.com                                            Lynn Folsom
Psykikstar [at] aol.com                                            Sandie Sabo
quadchicky [at] aol.com                                       Jillian Schwartz
Rsgerdom [at] aol.com                                           Rebecca Gerdom
RTLEASE [at] aol.com                                                Robert Kay
SarahEJax [at] aol.com                                             Sarah Jaxon
smoking357 [at] aol.com                                       Brian P. Sweeney
sopr2 [at] aol.com                                                 Bridget Kay
Stefani276 [at] aol.com                                  Stefanie A. Mackenzie
TiffanyT [at] aol.com                                              Tiffany Tim
TurtIeGirl [at] aol.com
txpepsi55 [at] aol.com                                           Luanne Barker
vicless [at] aol.com                                                   Vicless
voluptbabe [at] aol.com                                        Cheryl Krehbiel
Wunderama [at] aol.com                                        Michelle Gennari
Zotela [at] aol.com                                                     Laurie
KLeonard [at] artisoft.com                                        Kent Leonard
zorak111 [at] ballistic.com                                       Tammy Conner
enigma [at] BayView.COM                                             Holly Ward
jmalina [at] best.com                                            Jo Ann Malina
davidbath [at] bigfoot.com                                       David E. Bath
justkaren [at] bigfoot.com                                      Karen Milligan
jdg [at] but-i-dont-like-spam.boxmail.com                      John David Galt
stef [at] cat-and-dragon.com                                       Stef Maruch
76145.2522 [at] compuserve.com                                    Naomi Tilsen
72027.3605 [at] compuserve.com                                      Bob Bailin
HCulver [at] compuserve.com                                     HARRIET CULVER
eridani [at] databasix.com                                             Belinda
gburnore [at] databasix.com                                    Gary L. Burnore
ambaker [at] dialus.com                                          Anne M. Baker
webmistress [at] divinebbws.com                                 Savannah Smith
jasper [at] janssen.dynip.com                                   Jasper Janssen
noah [at] email.com                                                 Noah Davis
ema25 [at] en.com                                                  Liz Monahan
ferret [at] enteract.com                                            Karl Meyer
antipi [at] erols.com                                           Polly Berrigan
julesd [at] erols.com                                             Jules Dubois
mcclenon [at] erols.com                                           Bob McClenon
n10363 [at] erols.com                                          Pierrette Smith
sdmm [at] erols.com                                              Susan DiMaria
techno-babe [at] excite.com                                     Kellene Starks
biow [at] ezmort.com                                          Christopher Biow
david [at] farrar.com                                             David Farrar
mmcool [at] lse.fullfeed.com                                    Melissa Cooley
nedra45 [at] geocities.com                                       Nedra De Lima
sduncan [at] greensboro.com                                       Susan Duncan
anitar [at] halcyon.com                                          Anita Rowland
sokolove [at] hers.com                                        Deborah Sokolove
dilickjm [at] home.com                                             John Dilick
ebehr [at] home.com                                                Eve M. Behr
janmm [at] home.com                                                  Jan Magid
stormweaver [at] home.com                                          Jene Weaver
irfon [at] wave.home.com                                       Irfon-Kim Ahmad
bluesad [at] hotmail.com                                                  Blue
exerciser [at] hotmail.com                                      Exerciser Mann
furball [at] hotmail.com                                              Kelly S.
guileless35 [at] hotmail.com                                      H. Honeywell
jbuchy [at] hotmail.com                                              Jim Buchy
puffaroo [at] hotmail.com                                     Patricia Steward
starfire [at] hotmail.com                                           K. Holland
wilndorf [at] hotmail.com                                          Helen Honey
rshane [at] us.ibm.com                                           Randall Shane
hollyking [at] inetarena.com                                  Brendan Van Horn
veckerts [at] hf.intel.com                                       May Eckertson
annie [at] interlog.com                                             Paula Taft
care1 [at] interlog.com                                          Carol Frilegh
miranda [at] interlog.com                                          Chris Morte
stacia [at] io.com                                              Stacia Kissick
zephyn [at] io.com                                                Keith Peyton
AileenN [at] itgroup.com                                         Aileen Nelson
jaed [at] jaedworks.com                                    Jeanne A. E. DeVoto
chris [at] kzim.com                                Christopher Robin Zimmerman
zosma [at] lightlink.com                                    Grace V. Palazzolo
zthf01 [at] localnet.com                                     Thomas H Fernalld
irrelevant [at] MailAndNews.com                                    Jamie Young
bessglenn [at] mindspring.com                                       Bess Glenn
geekgrrl222 [at] mindspring.com                                          S M B
kymellie [at] mindspring.com                                        Erica Lira
murraymade [at] mindspring.com                                    Lynne Murray
oloryn [at] mindspring.com                                         Ben Coleman
sam_chupp [at] mindspring.com                                        Sam Chupp
tatiana [at] mindspring.com                                   Tatiana Schwartz
naomiy [at] my-Deja.com                                         Naomi K. Young
uniqgale [at] my-Deja.com                                                  + +
lsimonetta [at] my-dejanews.com                               Leo G. Simonetta
tina [at] Starbase.NeoSoft.COM                                      Tina Marie
nancy [at] netaxs.com                                           Nancy Lebovitz
aahz [at] netcom.com                                                      Aahz
abostick [at] netcom.com                                          Alan Bostick
dragonma [at] netcom.com                                            Dragonmama
der [at] ix.netcom.com                                             Donald Root
hobspify [at] ix.netcom.com                                   Laurie D. Sandow
julie_c [at] ix.netcom.com                                      Julia Cullison
pattist [at] ix.netcom.com                                     Barbara Pattist
resourc2 [at] ix.netcom.com                                        Laura Cisco
sandyg2 [at] ix.netcom.com                                       Sandra Gordon
source [at] netcom.com                                            David Harmon
tlh [at] netdoor.com
dmescher [at] nortelnetworks.com                                 David Mescher
fi [at] oceanstar.com                                            Fiona Webster
phil [at] panix.com                                             Phil Gustafson
stimpy [at] paralynx.com                                             Jack Webb
alice [at] radiancemagazine.com                                 Alice Ansfield
susanp [at] repole.com                                            Susan Repole
kathy [at] scconsult.com                                          Kathy Pascoe
babalon [at] seanet.com                                            Eve Earnest
carols [at] sirius.com                                           Carol Squires
guyt [at] sirius.com                                             Guy W. Thomas
mgw [at] world.std.com                                          Mary-Anne Wolf
phb [at] world.std.com                                     Priscilla H. Ballou
miche [at] technologist.com                                              Miche
cyn [at] technomom.com                                       Cynthia Armistead
ennead [at] teleport.com                                            B. Deutsch
ry [at] teleport.com                                                Ryan Gavin
nsmith [at] micro.ti.com                                            Neal Smith
dburgess [at] uniserve.com                                        Doug Burgess
nick [at] upsonuk.com                                               Nick Upson
dietchef [at] usafa.com                                       Claudia McCreary
md [at] wwa.com                                                       L. Smith
david [at] xara.com                                           David Matthewman
raladue [at] xocolatl.com                                      Ruth Anne Ladue
marikaat [at] yahoo.com                                           Maria Tsonis
naddy [at] mips.rhein-neckar.de                           Christian Weisgerber
vote-big8 [at] kholdan.snafu.de                                    tobias erle
jer [at] cs.amherst.edu                                             John Rager
jdavis [at] bsod.CS.Arizona.EDU                                      Jim Davis
mlkenny [at] asu.edu                                            Mary Lou Kenny
stuartb [at] bc.edu                                               Brian Stuart
kparsons [at] uclink4.berkeley.edu                            Kathleen Parsons
bg19354 [at] binghamton.EDU                                       Nully Fydyan
jill [at] alumni.cs.colorado.edu                                Jill Lundquist
bioaw124 [at] emory.edu                                           Claire Maier
mike.luttrell [at] iac.gatech.edu                                Mike Luttrell
ARUGGERI [at] indiana.edu                                 Alena Amato Ruggerio
katrina [at] louisville.edu                                       Katrina Rowe
howells [at] MIT.EDU                                             Nancy Howells
kraemers [at] pilot.msu.edu                                     Stacey Kraemer
aelwood [at] MtHolyoke.edu                                        Ann L Elwood
cdm [at] nwu.edu                                             Colette D. Marine
lverhulst [at] nmff.nwu.edu                                       Lee Verhulst
wardk [at] cse.ogi.edu                                              Karen Ward
borus.1 [at] osu.edu                                              Judith Borus
ecf [at] psc.edu                                              Esther Filderman
carolee [at] expert.cc.purdue.edu                               Carolee Barker
emma [at] kanpai.stanford.edu                                       Emma Pease
MEIER [at] SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                          Vanessa Schnatmeier
rick [at] bcm.tmc.edu                                           Richard Miller
flaps [at] dgp.toronto.edu                                    Alan J Rosenthal
bcr19374 [at] pegasus.cc.ucf.edu                    Brian Christopher Robinson
h431 [at] midway.uchicago.edu                                    Heather Blair
jhlowens [at] midway.uchicago.edu                            Joanna Lowenstein
tachyon [at] cats.ucsc.edu                                      Tan=E9 Tachyon
escowles [at] gort.ucsd.edu                                        Esme Cowles
bjcraw [at] uidaho.edu                                           Jean Crawford
sykes [at] ms.uky.edu                                               Jeff Sykes
dmacks [at] sas.upenn.edu                                         Daniel Macks
phos8516 [at] postoffice.uri.edu                                  maxine in ri
churchyh [at] ccwf.cc.utexas.edu                              Henry Churchyard
ziphii [at] u.washington.edu                                 Teresa Klostreich
ac1014 [at] wayne.edu                                          Christina Lazic
rufinus [at] mbe.ece.wisc.edu                                        J Rufinus
ziebarth [at] math.wisc.edu                               Jennifer J. Ziebarth
sini.makela [at] helsinki.fi                                   Sini M=E4kel=E4
lea [at] iki.fi                                                  Lea Heikkinen
tp39783 [at] uta.fi                                               Angela Pohja
porter.clark [at] msfc.nasa.gov                                J. Porter Clark
ziegtsc [at] ziegler.co.il                                        Karen Snyder
jrosenfeld [at] ameritech.net                                    Joe Rosenfeld
dmdf [at] att.net                                                       Denise
amandaw [at] worldnet.att.net                                   Mandy Williams
gmwade [at] worldnet.att.net                                   Gina Marie Wade
alexis.manning [at] worldnet.att.net                            Alexis Manning
mapletree [at] worldnet.att.net                                     Robin King
MsKarenM [at] worldnet.att.net                                  Karen Melville
zeszutko [at] worldnet.att.net                               Mary Ann Zeszutko
moonvine [at] austinTX.net                  Kelley Saveika
 | Insert =
jdsign [at] avalon.net                                         Julia Daugherty
lydiaw [at] bellsouth.net                                     Lydia K. Wheeler
jrobert1 [at] bestweb.net                                         Jean Roberts
simahoyo [at] blarg.net                                         Linde Knighton
cdjworks [at] clark.net                                        Diane W. Hurley
marcied [at] cttel.net                                       Marcie Dimenstein
greeby [at] kalypso.cybercom.net                                   Carol Moses
wesboyd [at] dmci.net                                                 Wes Boyd
cvandyke [at] earthlink.net                                   Charles Van Dyke
joankeith [at] earthlink.net                                        Joan Keith
praxiteles [at] earthlink.net                               ELISABETH M. JONES
spoon2000 [at] earthlink.net                                   Betsy Castorena
zarah [at] earthlink.net                                       Cheryl Malaguti
johngi [at] fair.net                                             John Gillette
terriw [at] frontiernet.net                                     Terri Williams
mnoyes [at] gsinet.net                                         Michael R Noyes
kdenble [at] ibm.net                                          Karen DenBleyker
keisa [at] ibm.net                                              Karen Bessason
ejoslin [at] ic.net                                               Erica Joslin
dvarnau [at] idir.net                                               Don Varnau
debbyag [at] philly.infi.net                             Deborah (Debby) Yager
raj [at] inspace.net                                            Robert Juliano
vr [at] interport.net                                         Vicki Rosenzweig
saraha [at] iquest.net                                            Sarah Pickle
eddalex [at] jetlink.net                                      Edward Alexander
emma.rs [at] lineone.net                                            Emma Monks
magpie [at] lmi.net                                               Maggie Young
seferguson [at] shell2.mdc.net                                  Stacy Ferguson
ganthony [at] mdo.net                                          Gina M. Anthony
FatBitch [at] netscape.net                                    Carole Steinfeld
subjanet [at] netscape.net                                       Janet Rubicon
CourtMoss [at] nova-net.net                                        Ellen Court
astroud [at] nyx.net                                         Annette M. Stroud
hrmartin [at] pacificcoast.net                                 Helen R. Martin
godmom [at] pagesz.net                                           Camille Klein
paul_harman [at] pa.press.net                                      Paul Harman
debris [at] eagle.ptialaska.net                                   Tayja Dangel
spiral [at] ptialaska.net                                        Zailey Dangel
ewhitley [at] qis.net                                              Eva Whitley
artemis [at] rahul.net                                           Michelle Dick
gsprague [at] sky.net                                          Gwen E. Sprague
drs [at] slip.net                                                David Stevens
kith [at] slip.net                                               Debbie Notkin
ladyjane [at] smarty.smart.net                                  Jane M. Lecher
jwermont [at] sonic.net                                              J Wermont
astarte [at] sover.net                                       Siobhan Perricone
hawthorn [at] sover.net                                     Frank J. Perricone
ressig [at] suite224.net                                          Robert Essig
daoffer [at] texas.net                                                D. Offer
lbond [at] theramp.net                                               Lisa Bond
naomid [at] shell2.tiac.net                                  Naomi Diesendruck
kallisti [at] tiny.net                                          betsy lundsten
Ituri [at] toast.net                                              Moira Harris
sbarker [at] uconect.net                                                sarund
serene-rebel [at] usa.net                                        Sandra Vannoy
jmiles [at] usit.net                                            Janet D. Miles
pringle [at] usit.net                                             Peggy Morgan
pjhoehn [at] mail.vbemail.net                                       Jean Hoehn
petal [at] vgernet.net                                           Debra Achnick
catxxv [at] webtv.net                                            Stacey Wright
Eosinophil [at] webtv.net                                    Christina Cropper
erisann [at] webtv.net                                        Shirley-Ann Cole
mauraoconnor [at] webtv.net                                     Maura O'Connor
Mipsey [at] webtv.net                                            Trixie Porter
Mykey400 [at] webtv.net                                            Mike Gorman
torry [at] webtv.net                                               Linda Ramos
WyntrFoxQC [at] webtv.net                                        Michele Adler
holm [at] ziplink.net                                          Juliana L. Holm
jlh99 [at] zoomnet.net                                              Jo Hudgins
martijn [at] inlv.demon.nl                                      Martijn Dekker
obistat [at] plex.nl                                            Elly Jeurissen
sgvd [at] xs4all.nl                                           Simon van Dongen
Birgitta.Szanday [at] nifu.no                                 Birgitta Szanday
zandra [at] online.no                                        Alexandra Nielsen
b.m.szanday [at] hfstud.uio.no                                   Beate Szanday
Rachel.Priebee [at] wcc.govt.nz                                 Rachel Priebee
faigin [at] guinan.aero.org                                   Daniel P. Faigin
paulwolf [at] cuyctyengineers.org                                 Paul S. Wolf
lloyd [at] galtham.org                                            Lloyd Eldred
jenniedo [at] intranet.org                           Jennifer L. Dailey-O'Cain
star [at] prairienet.org                                   Samantha Star Straf
eridani [at] scn.org                                            Martha Koester
chris.dangel [at] pupkus.searhc.org                               Chris Dangel
wadfors [at] ebox.tninet.se                                 Margaretha Wadfors
magpie [at] megabitch.tm                                       Meg Thornton=20
mjtg [at] cus.cam.ac.uk                                               Mike Guy
cjw44 [at] thor.cam.ac.uk                                         Colin Watson
johnf [at] epcc.ed.ac.uk                                           John Fisher
s.curtis [at] cs.stir.ac.uk                                      Sharon Curtis
susan [at] ashton.demon.co.uk                                     Susan Ashton
Kev [at] ntec.demon.co.uk                                         Kev Crocombe
glenys [at] tgis.co.uk                                   Glenys Williams-Hesse
zofran [at] deepthot.aurora.co.us                              Cheryl L Martin

Voted NO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dspencer [at] accessone.com                                        Dan Spencer
igor [at] Algebra.Com                                              igor chudov
jerry.williamson [at] amd.com                                 Jerry Williamson
Aciolli [at] aol.com                                            Anthony Ciolli
sforsell [at] aol.com                                            Scott Forsell
valeriepg [at] aol.com                                          Valerie Romano
kimdv [at] best.com                                               Kim DeVaughn
stainles [at] bga.com                                             Dwight Brown
dputzolu [at] BigFoot.com                                        David Putzolu
73765.1026 [at] compuserve.com                                       Frank Lii
lis1 [at] cris.com                                               Claire Reiter
janus [at] cwo.com                                                 Keith Adams
bfalk [at] email.com                                               Benito Falk
Elric_of_Imrryr [at] email.com                                      Brad Davis
gkerley [at] execpc.com                                          Gillam Kerley
neris [at] home.com                                                          
caloo_calay [at] hotmail.com                                     Calley Martin
jesp [at] hotmail.com                                          Eugenio Sanchez
toonerdy [at] hotmail.com                                          Darla Quinn
kitkat [at] idmail.com                                                 Marie =
quilter [at] idmail.com                                                Linda =
eoi [at] iname.com                                                 Eric Widzer
jenoff [at] interlog.com                                          Allan Jenoff
joshkramer [at] mailandnews.com                                  Joshua Kramer
davey_bravo [at] millenicom.com                                    David Walsh
gprrspw [at] mindspring.com                                          G.P. Ryan
r5555c [at] email.sps.mot.com                                     Alan Chapman
olav [at] viking.mv.com                                        Olav Nieuwejaar
jgeorge [at] nbi.com                                                Joe George
chriseb [at] nortelnetworks.com                                 Chris Ebenezer
dc [at] panix.com                                            David W. Crawford
squid [at] panix.com                                                  Yeoh Yiu
eleroy [at] pbpost.com                                             Erynn LeRoy
c28f62 [at] world.std.com                                          Mark Kramer
pan [at] syix.com                                                          Pan
dougob [at] the-spa.com                                           Doug O'Brien
mayp [at] tibco.com                                                Patrick May
ed [at] twin-cities.com                                             ed bertsch
Castalia23 [at] yahoo.com                                         Chris Fisher
mehowe [at] yahoo.com                                             Marc E. Howe
sackv [at] uni-duesseldorf.de                                      Victor Sack
irwin [at] stat.ohio-state.edu                                      Mark Irwin
hougen [at] cs.umn.edu                                             Dean Hougen
jbeddow [at] vt.edu                                               Jason Beddow
kristian.liimatainen [at] helsinki.fi                        Lauri Liimatainen
anders [at] cygnus.dis.anl.gov                                     Judy Anders
Charlie.CTR.Armstrong [at] faa.gov                           Charlie Armstrong
lmartin [at] airmail.net                                        Lee Martindale
tov [at] altavista.net                                              Mike Craig
woofer [at] wa.freei.net                                            Misha Baer
ellis [at] ftel.net                                                 Rick Ellis
sbhattac [at] idt.net                                    Shankar Bhattacharyya
mnmhowe [at] initco.net                                           Nichole Howe
ccilek [at] nyx.net                                                Chuck Cilek
totototo [at] mail.pacificcoast.net                            Rodger Whitlock
khan [at] phoenix.net                                                Ray Lloyd
khill [at] pinnatel.net                                             Kevin Hill
a.dawson [at] pmail.net                                            Alex Dawson
arromdee [at] rahul.net                                           Ken Arromdee
nfitz [at] sentex.net                                     Nicholas Fitzpatrick
Raven_Maniac [at] usa.net                                           Jack Ramos
fjohnson [at] uswestmail.net                                     Frank Johnson
Peter-Lawrence.Montgomery [at] cwi.nl                      Peter L. Montgomery
edward [at] paleo.org                                              Edward Reid
stanley [at] peak.org                                             John Stanley
miller [at] bits.bris.ac.uk                                       Simon Miller
merlin [at] A470.demon.co.uk                                   Darren Wyn Rees

Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rgriver [at] chat.carleton.ca                                              Rye
dlandhill [at] aol.com                                          D. A. Landhill
leigh [at] nbi.com                                                Leigh Melton
hood [at] Eng.Sun.COM                                                Mark Hood
sbo [at] psy.med.uni-muenchen.de                                Boris Schaefer
mmontcha [at] OregonVOS.net                                 Matthew Montchalin
kmorgan [at] ptialaska.net                                     Kathy I. Morgan
murray-paul [at] usa.net                                           Paul Murray
kate [at] haven.eyrie.org                                       Kate Wrightson
saraw [at] cd.chalmers.se                                         Sara Wranker
denebeim [at] deepthot.aurora.co.us                          Jay Denebeim,home

Invalid votes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mdeayton [at] bigpond.com                                         Mark Deayton
    ! No vote statement in message
clarice_s [at] deja.com                                    Clarice S. Saunders
    ! Undeliverable address: User unknown
dwolff [at] world.std.com                                          David Wolff
    ! Undeliverable address: 550 Wrong (!? bad local root DNS server?)
kent [at] world.std.com                            Kent Leonard



From [email protected] Tue Oct 26 14:42:17 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (David C Lawrence)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups
Subject: RESULTS UPHELD: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated, sci.astro.seti
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: other.articles/votes-upheld
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:34:04 GMT
Lines: 98
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11189 news.groups:332121

Two recent passing votes received a great deal of negative attention
in news.groups.  Some people felt the vote for sci.astro.seti was
tainted by the posting of pointer to news.announce.newgroups at the
sci.astro.seti, and that the vote for soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated
was notably biased by a solicitation sent out by an enthusiastic
supporter of the group.  I will not be overturning either of these
polls to require a revote; both fora should be considered fully
legitimate Big 8 newsgroups.

The point of the newsgroup creation process is to see whether there is
sufficient interest in various topic areas across the breadth of the
net to warrant asking all the news sites out there to carry the
traffic.  It also serves to keep in check some of the more potential
problems that can arise, such as how certain topics are classified,
how clear a name is, whether a group would be directly used for widely
illegal activities, or so on.  One of the main questions I had in
reviewing these two votes was how well the goals of the guidelines
were being served: whether we were identifying groups with widespread
interest, and whether there were sufficient faults with the proposals
or the way they were pursued that rerunning their votes was warranted.

The sci.astro.seti case is extremely clear cut.  The pointer that was
posted at the SETI@home web site was neutral and minimal; a link
provided was simply to , so a voter
still had to connect to their own news server, find the CFV, read it
enough to find the directions on how to vote, then vote.  Making
people aware of a vote in progress doesn't get much better than this,
folks, and this alone is sufficient to address the matter of whether
the sci.astro.seti vote was somehow unfair.

Looking deeper into contentions about how "valid" the yes voters were,
a majority of the voters, easily enough to carry the vote, have been
shown to know enough about using Usenet to have made at least one post
to it, and 406 of the yes voters made at least ten posts.  At least 80
had already posted to a sci.astro.* newsgroup or alt.sci.seti, and
even then it was never necessary that a yes voter want a group created
so he could post to it, but only to use it --- read or post.  With
over 1.3 million people participating in the SETI@home project from
scores of countries around the world, it is a clear that this is a
subject with extremely widespread interest.

The soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated matter is a little less clear
cut, but I still believe firmly on the side of validating the poll.
The core issue here is that one of the proposed moderators for the
group sent an email message to a fat-acceptance mailing list that
contained the sentence, "If you have any interest in participating in
a moderated fat-acceptance group on Usenet, or if you think such a
group will be useful to promoting the idea of fat-acceptance, please
vote YES."  Without the phrase delimited by commas, there would be
absolutely no problem at all.  Unfortunately the phrase within the
commas does solicit yes votes for a reason that is not considered
legitimate in the realm of newsgroup creation --- the namespace is not
to be used to advance particular viewpoints, just to categorize topics
for discussion.  Nonetheless, by the votetaker's analysis, this one
phrase did not have a significant impact on the vote, which was
clearly going to pass anyway.  Even without his analysis, we'd all
have to adopt the fairly ludicrous notion that more than 143 people on
that mailing list were motivated to vote yes improperly because of
that phrase, and that they want to see the group created to promote
the idea of fat-acceptance but have no intention of ever using the
group.  I just don't buy it.

Here's why you should not buy it either: in an analysis done by Paul
Murray, the same fellow who did the analysis referred to in the SETI
discussion above, 130 of the yes voters had at least one post to a
related support newsgroup, and he notes that this total is a lower
bound since it excludes people who post with a different address than
they voted with, and those who use No-Archive to prevent archival of
their messages.  That means only up to an additional 37 yes votes were
needed from lurkers to overcome the 67 no votes (some of which were
undoubtedly generated from the very controversy over the "promoting
the idea" phrase).  Those 37 votes represent less than a third of the
non-lurkers, and just 20% of the 180 yes votes that came from
non-posters.  Do you really think that more than 80% of the votes that
"carried the day" were from people who had no interest in actually
reading the group but just wanted to prove a point about the
acceptance of fat by creating a second Big 8 group on the topic?  Even
when, by Mr. Murray's analysis, 201 of the yes voters, easily enough
to carry the group to victory, were active enough Usenet users to have
made at least 10 posts to Usenet (not necessarily to one of the fat
support groups)?

Rerunning either vote serves no one well, not news administrators, not
the volunteer votetakers, not the people who want to use the group,
not even the people opposed to the groups.  The usual reasons for the
failure of a group -- lack of interest, terrible name, awful charter,
egregious abuse of the group creation rules -- do not exist for either
proposal.  Let's be realistic here; rerunning the votes would only
make sense if there were a legitimate question about whether they
would have passed or not without the controversial advertising in
question.

I thank the votetakers, Dave Cornejo and Neil Crellin, for the fine
job they have done, as usual, in collecting and analyzing the ballots
in these votes.

David Lawrence
moderator, news.announce.newgroups