From [email protected] Mon Jan  3 17:49:05 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Elmo)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv
Subject: RFD: rec.arts.comics.other-media
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 3 Jan 1994 16:57:54 -0500
Organization: Comics, Comics, Comics
Lines: 119
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4427 news.groups:91310 alt.comics.batman:1414 alt.comics.superman:2480 rec.arts.comics.info:551 rec.arts.comics.misc:59028 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:14726 rec.arts.animation:17928 rec.arts.movies:151339 rec.arts.tv:98871 rec.arts.sf.tv:19107

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION: rec.arts.comics.other-media (unmoderated)

ONE LINE DESCRIPTION:

Comic book spinoffs in other media (unmoderated)

ONE FOURTH-GRADE-LEVEL SENTENCE DESCRIPTION:

rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created in comics
as portrayed in media other than comics, such as movies, TV, prose, and toys.

RATIONALE:

This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually unified set of
posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are often
on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high signal for
some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for isolating the
topics in their own newsgroup.

The concept, name, and charter have been thoroughly hashed out via straw 
polls in the "home" group, rec.arts.comics.misc.  In particular, the name
and charter given here received overwhelming support in these straw polls.

GROUPS:

This RFD (and later CFV) is being posted to those groups most directly 
affected by the split:

alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,
rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,
rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.

Followups are directed to news.groups only.

CHARTER:

rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created in comics
as portrayed in media other than comics, including animated and live-action
TV and movies, prose, and toys and other merchandising.  Posts comparing
the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group.  

Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line KEYWORDS 
will heavily encouraged.

+ LINE ITEMS WITH EXAMPLES:

  o INCLUDED TOPICS:

    - Animated and live-action television and movies:

        Batman Returns, Batman: The Animated Series, X-Men: The Animated
        Series, the upcoming Spider-Man movie.

    - Prose works, including novels and anthologies:

        The "Further Adventures of" anthologies, "The Death and Life of
        Superman".

    - Toys and other merchandise:

        The "rare" Invisible Woman action figure, Happy Meal toys,
        Underoos, bisque figurines, art portfolios, t-shirts.

    - Music:

        MAXXimum Sound, the hardy perennial discussion of "superheroes
        in popular music".

    - "Casting Calls":

        Deserving a special note, these are the hardy perennial discussions
        of "Who would play  in a movie?", particularly concerning
        Sandman's Endless or Marvel's X-Men.

    - Radio:

        The 40's radio adventures of Superman.

  o EXCLUDED TOPICS:

    - Anime and Manga:

        These have their own groups.

    - Trading Cards:

        These also have their own groups.

    - Superhero-inspired material in other media *not* based on existing
      comic book characters:

        The "Wild Cards" anthologies, "Stan Lee's Riftworld", Meteor Man.
        These are not comic spinoffs, and superheroes != comics.

    - Fanfic:

        Fanfic falls into two categories: Either it's based on existing
        comic book characters, in which case it is an illegal violation of
        copyright and/or trademark, or it's not based on existing comic
        book characters, in which case it's only comic-inspired.  In either
        case, this is not appropriate material for rac.o-m; the second
        category also violates the six-month rule following the failed
        rec.arts.comics.creative vote.

    - Comic books based on characters from other media:

        Transformers, Star Wars, Aliens, Terminator.  These discussions
        are about comics books and belong in rec.arts.comics.misc.

    - Metatopics: Books, movies, etc., about comic book creators, art,
      history.

        "Understanding Comics", "Comic Book Confidential", "Comic Book
        Superstars" video series, "Superman: From the 30's to the 70's".
        These are not stories about comic book characters but about comic 
        books and belong in rec.arts.comics.misc.
-- 
elmo ([email protected],[email protected])

From [email protected] Sat Jan 22 17:57:54 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (The Elmo Files)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv
Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.arts.comics.other-media
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 22 Jan 1994 16:26:50 -0500
Organization: The Truth Is Out There
Lines: 125
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Message-ID: 
References: [email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4494 news.groups:92716 alt.comics.batman:1596 alt.comics.superman:2775 rec.arts.comics.info:605 rec.arts.comics.misc:61677 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:15432 rec.arts.animation:18231 rec.arts.movies:154822 rec.arts.tv:100894 rec.arts.sf.tv:20300

SECOND REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION: rec.arts.comics.other-media (unmoderated)


ONE LINE DESCRIPTION:

Comic book spinoffs in other media (unmoderated)

SLIGHTLY LONGER DESCRIPTION:

rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created in comics
as portrayed in media other than comics, such as movies, TV, prose, and toys.

RATIONALE:

This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually unified set of
posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are often
on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high signal for
some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for isolating the
topics in their own newsgroup.

The concept, name, and charter have been thoroughly hashed out via straw 
polls in the "home" group, rec.arts.comics.misc.  In particular, the name
and charter given here received overwhelming support in these straw polls.

This proposal is expected to go to a vote on or about Jan 29th.

GROUPS:

This RFD (and later CFV) is being posted to those groups most directly 
affected by the split:

alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,alt.animation.warner-bros,
rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,
rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.toys.misc,
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.

Note that rec.toys.misc has been added to the list following its creation.
Note that alt.animation.warner-bros has been added following my
discovery of its existence.

Followups are directed to news.groups only.

CHARTER:

rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created in comics
as portrayed in media other than comics, including animated and live-action
TV and movies, prose, and toys and other merchandising.  Posts comparing
the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group.  

Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line KEYWORDS 
will heavily encouraged.

o LINE ITEMS WITH EXAMPLES:

  + INCLUDED TOPICS:

    - Animated and live-action television and movies:

        Batman Returns, Batman: The Animated Series, X-Men: The Animated
        Series, the upcoming Spider-Man movie.

    - Prose works, including novels and anthologies:

        The "Further Adventures of" anthologies, "The Death and Life of
        Superman".

    - Toys and other merchandise:

        The "rare" Invisible Woman action figure, Happy Meal toys,
        Underoos, bisque figurines, art portfolios, t-shirts.

    - Music:

        MAXXimum Sound, the hardy perennial discussion of "superheroes
        in popular music".

    - "Casting Calls":

        Deserving a special note, these are the hardy perennial discussions
        of "Who would play  in a movie?", particularly concerning
        Sandman's Endless or Marvel's X-Men.

    - Radio:

        The 40's radio adventures of Superman.

  + EXCLUDED TOPICS:

    - Anime and Manga:

        These have their own groups.

    - Trading Cards:

        These also have their own groups.

    - Superhero-inspired material in other media *not* based on existing
      comic book characters:

        The "Wild Cards" anthologies, "Stan Lee's Riftworld", Meteor Man.
        These are not comic spinoffs, and superheroes != comics.

    - Fanfic:

        Fanfic falls into two categories: Either it's based on existing
        comic book characters, in which case it is an illegal violation of
        copyright and/or trademark, or it's not based on existing comic
        book characters, in which case it's only comic-inspired.  In either
        case, this is not appropriate material for rac.o-m; the second
        cateogry also violates the six-month rule following the failed
        rec.arts.comics.creative vote.

    - Comic books based on characters from other media:

        Transformers, Star Wars, Aliens, Terminator.  These discussions
        are about comic books and belong in rec.arts.comics.misc.

    - Metatopics: Books, movies, etc., about comic book creators, art,
      history.

        "Understanding Comics", "Comic Book Confidential", "Comic Book
        Superstars" video series, "Superman: From the 30's to the 70's".
        These are not stories about comic book characters but instead are 
        about comic books as a medium or superheroes as a genre and belong 
        in rec.arts.comics.misc.

From [email protected] Fri Feb  4 16:09:42 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Mark James)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.toys.misc
Subject: CFV: rec.arts.comics.other-media
Followup-To: poster
Date: 1 Feb 1994 15:40:44 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 94
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Expires: 23 Feb 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4540 news.groups:93786 alt.comics.batman:1637 alt.comics.superman:2972 rec.arts.comics.info:635 rec.arts.comics.misc:63155 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:15898 rec.arts.animation:18457 rec.arts.movies:156410 rec.arts.tv:102163 rec.arts.sf.tv:21011 rec.toys.misc:356

                      1st CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
 
             Unmoderated group rec.arts.comics.other-media
 
Newsgroups line:
rec.arts.comics.other-media	Comic book spinoffs in other media.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 February 1994.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only, contact Mark James .  For 
questions about the proposed group, contact Greg Morrow 
.

The second RFD was crossposted to alt.animation.warner-bros.  Due to
restrictions on the length of Newsgroups: line, it has not been 
included in the list of groups receiving the CFVs.  The proposer will 
post a pointer to the CFVs in that group. 


CHARTER
-------

rec.arts.comics.other-media is an unmoderated newsgroup for posts about
characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics,
including animated and live-action TV and movies, radio, prose, music,
and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and posts comparing
the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group. 
Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing comic book
characters is off-charter. 

Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line
KEYWORDS will be heavily encouraged. 

RATIONALE:  This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually
unified set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics
are often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high
signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for
isolating the topics in their own newsgroup. 


HOW TO VOTE
-----------

You should send E-MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to:

      [email protected]

Just replying by E-MAIL to this message should work, assuming you are
reading this using standard newsreader software.  Your mail message 
should contain one and only one of the following statements:

      I vote YES on rec.arts.comics.other-media
      I vote NO on rec.arts.comics.other-media
      I ABSTAIN on rec.arts.comics.other-media
      I CANCEL my vote on rec.arts.comics.other-media

You may add a comment, or use other wording, but only a definite, 
unconditional, unambiguous statement for or against the creation of 
rec.arts.comics.other-media will count as a vote.

Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve
only to cancel any previous vote.  Abstentions are noted in the final
vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely.
(This is the only difference between the two.)

If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid
vote will count.

All votes will be acknowledged by E-mail.  If you don't receive an
acknowledgment within a few days of your vote, vote again.  It is your
responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person,
no more than one vote per account.  If you attempt multiple votes or 
other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.


RESULT
------

The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including
how each person voted.  Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret 
ballot.

There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote
list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed.  The 
requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes,
and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES. 
-- 
Mark James      *** Opinions, errors etc are mine. ***
Dialogic Corporation, 300 Littleton Road    | 
Parsippany NJ 07054, U.S.A.                 | "Duluth, jocko!  You can
+1 201 334 1268 ext 438  Fax +1 201 334 1257|  get Tierra del Fuego!"

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 19:53:38 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Mark James)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.toys.misc
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics.other-media
Supersedes: 
Followup-To: poster
Date: 12 Feb 1994 00:33:29 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 104
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Expires: 23 Feb 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4607 news.groups:95213 alt.comics.batman:1740 alt.comics.superman:3109 rec.arts.comics.info:688 rec.arts.comics.misc:64916 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:16688 rec.arts.animation:18695 rec.arts.movies:158371 rec.arts.tv:103397 rec.arts.sf.tv:22001 rec.toys.misc:465

                      2nd CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
 
             Unmoderated group rec.arts.comics.other-media
 
Newsgroups line:
rec.arts.comics.other-media	Comic book spinoffs in other media.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 February 1994.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only, contact Mark James .  For 
questions about the proposed group, contact Greg Morrow 
.

The second RFD was crossposted to alt.animation.warner-bros.  Due to
restrictions on the length of Newsgroups: line, it has not been 
included in the list of groups receiving the CFVs.  The proposer will 
post a pointer to the CFVs in that group. 


CHARTER
-------

rec.arts.comics.other-media is an unmoderated newsgroup for posts about
characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics,
including animated and live-action TV and movies, radio, prose, music,
and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and posts comparing
the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group. 
Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing comic book
characters is off-charter. 

Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line
KEYWORDS will be heavily encouraged. 

RATIONALE:  This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually
unified set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics
are often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high
signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for
isolating the topics in their own newsgroup. 


HOW TO VOTE
-----------

You should send E-MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to:

      [email protected]

Just replying by E-MAIL to this message should work, assuming you are
reading this using standard newsreader software.  Your mail message 
should contain one and only one of the following statements:

      I vote YES on rec.arts.comics.other-media
      I vote NO on rec.arts.comics.other-media
      I ABSTAIN on rec.arts.comics.other-media
      I CANCEL my vote on rec.arts.comics.other-media

You may add a comment, or use other wording, but only a definite, 
unconditional, unambiguous statement for or against the creation of 
rec.arts.comics.other-media will count as a vote.

Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve
only to cancel any previous vote.  Abstentions are noted in the final
vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely.
(This is the only difference between the two.)

If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid
vote will count.

All votes will be acknowledged by E-mail.  If you don't receive an
acknowledgment within a few days of your vote, vote again.  It is your
responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person,
no more than one vote per account.  If you attempt multiple votes or 
other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.


RESULT
------

The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including
how each person voted.  Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret 
ballot.

There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote
list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed.  The 
requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes,
and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES. 


BOUNCED VOTE ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
----------------------------

Vote acknowledgment messages to the following addresses have bounced.
(The votes have been counted.)

[email protected] 
[email protected] (Jason Martin) 
-- 
Mark James      *** Opinions, errors etc are mine. ***
Dialogic Corporation, 300 Littleton Road    | 
Parsippany NJ 07054, U.S.A.                 | "Duluth, jocko!  You can
+1 201 334 1268 ext 438  Fax +1 201 334 1257|  get Tierra del Fuego!"

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 17:56:54 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Mark James)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.toys.misc
Subject: RESULT: rec.arts.comics.other-media fails 132:52
Supersedes: 
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 24 Feb 1994 16:10:46 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 257
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected], [email protected]
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4690 news.groups:96513 alt.comics.batman:1886 alt.comics.superman:3280 rec.arts.comics.info:730 rec.arts.comics.misc:66637 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:17279 rec.arts.animation:18970 rec.arts.movies:160771 rec.arts.tv:104678 rec.arts.sf.tv:22795 rec.toys.misc:575

                               VOTE RESULT

              Unmoderated group rec.arts.comics.other-media

Voting closed on 22 February 1994 at 23:59:59 GMT.  The results are:

Yes votes:  132
No votes:    52

There were two abstentions.

This margin is insufficient for newgroup creation; there needed to
be 100 more YES than NO votes (and two-thirds of the votes needed
to be YES).  There will now be a five-day period during which 
corrections to the vote count may be made.  Barring sufficient
corrections to change the result, the group will not be created,
and the proposal to create rec.arts.comics.other-media may not be 
formally discussed again for six months.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  

Vote-taker: 		Mark James 
Group proponent: 	Greg Morrow 

Newsgroups line:
rec.arts.comics.other-media	Comic book spinoffs in other media.


CHARTER (as printed in the Call for Votes)
-------

rec.arts.comics.other-media is an unmoderated newsgroup for posts about
characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics,
including animated and live-action TV and movies, radio, prose, music,
and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and posts comparing
the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group. 
Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing comic book
characters is off-charter. 

Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line
KEYWORDS will be heavily encouraged. 

RATIONALE:  This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually
unified set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics
are often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high
signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for
isolating the topics in their own newsgroup. 


VOTE ACKNOWLEDGMENT
-------------------

These lists are sorted in alphabetical order by login name, as taken
>from the "From:" line.  Note that certain UUCP addresses are mangled 
somewhat in order to sort nicely.


YES votes were received from the following people:

[email protected] (Adam Huby) 
[email protected] (Rick Jones)
[email protected] (Per Abrahamsen)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (A.M. Wilton)
[email protected] ([email protected]) 
[email protected] (Adam K. Rixey)
[email protected] (Joe Arendt)
[email protected] (Jim Ault)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Joshua Adam Hart)
[email protected] (George Mathew) 
[email protected] (Iain A. Bertram)
[email protected] (Bart Beaty. GPC. McGill)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Niels Olof Bouvin)
[email protected] (Steve Brasen)
[email protected] (Michael Bowman)
[email protected] (Julian C. (aka Constantine))
[email protected] (Chris M. Cavers)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Philippe Crocy) 
[email protected] (Alison A. Barnes)
[email protected] (The Senile Scrutinizer) 
[email protected] (CHARLIE WENTLING)
[email protected] (MARTIN)
[email protected] (Bertil Jonell)
[email protected] (Darren Wacky&Moist Glass)
[email protected] (Duranee Dodson)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Dan Lorey) 
[email protected] (Don Marks) 
[email protected] (Don Woods) 
[email protected] (Doug Shaw)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Dave Van Domelen)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (mikael k edmonds) 
[email protected] (Eric Akawie)
[email protected] (Gayle Gamble) 
[email protected] (EuGene epetai-Tramaglino) 
[email protected] (David Goldfarb)
[email protected] (Gregor Herrmann) 
[email protected] (Gabriel G Tsui) 
[email protected] (gabriel v hoyos) 
[email protected] (William Hahn) 
[email protected] (Ian David Bremner) 
[email protected] (Jan Helge Hordnes) 
[email protected] (James Stone) 
[email protected] (Jim Perreault)
[email protected] (Jarno Kokko)
[email protected] (Johann E. Beda)
[email protected] (Jeremy C. York)
[email protected] (Joel Furr)
[email protected] (Jonathan Lupa)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (JON ARVID LOVSTAD) 
[email protected] (James Drew) 
[email protected] (Jeffrey C Spencer) 
[email protected] (John Locke) 
[email protected] (Keith Counsell) 
[email protected] (Kate the Short)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Sheryl Knowles) 
[email protected] (kpfong)
[email protected] (Mastermind) 
[email protected] (Mark Kummerer) 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (John P. LaRocque)
[email protected] (Lauri Lehtinen) 
[email protected] (Lee Whiteside)
[email protected] (Born Under A Bad Glenn)
[email protected] (Elisabeth Anne Riba) 
[email protected] (Laurie Gerholz) 
[email protected] (Lonadar the Wanderer) 
[email protected] (Larry W. Virden) 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (shawn marier) 
[email protected] (Mark A Mcconnell) 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Michael G. McKellar)
[email protected] (michael kelly) 
[email protected] (Matthew Maxwell) 
[email protected] (Greg Morrow)
[email protected] (Mike 'Ergh' Escutia)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Martin Schroeder) 
[email protected] (Mike Suzio) 
[email protected] (un Coeur en Hiver) 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Nick Gaut) 
[email protected] (Nuala Fahey)
[email protected] (Peter Sullivan) 
[email protected] (Peter Wong)
[email protected] (Paul Norris) 
[email protected] (Paul O'Brien)
[email protected] (P Atcliffe) 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Reid Fleming)
[email protected] (Richard H. Miller) 
RM6608%[email protected] (Viper, no not the car!)
[email protected] (Arnold Dobson)
[email protected] (Rod Shelton)
[email protected] 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (RECKLESS AS USUAL)
[email protected] (SALVADOR DALI'S MOUSTACHE)
[email protected] (Samuel Edward Greenfield)
[email protected] (Sten Drescher) 
[email protected] (Steven Miale)
[email protected] (Dave Jeitner)
[email protected] (Jacob Sparre Andersen)
[email protected] (Greg Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life Spira) 
[email protected] (Subrata Sircar) 
[email protected] (Stu Labovitz) 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Thomas Bromley) 
[email protected] (Robert Mc Daniel) 
[email protected] (Terence Lo) 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Timothy W. Lynch) 
[email protected] (Thomas Reid Scudder) 
[email protected] (Don't blame me--I voted for Bush)
[email protected] (Peter John Williams)
[email protected] (Gustav Rossner) 
[email protected] (Vernon H Harmon)
[email protected] (D. W. James) 
[email protected] (Scott von Berg) 
[email protected] (Steve Wells)
[email protected] (Christopher M. Conway) 
[email protected] (Jason Martin (0004 )) 
[email protected] (Dave Shariff Yadallee) 


NO votes were received from the following people:

[email protected] (David Pardoe) 
[email protected] (Jacob Huebert) 
[email protected] (JESUS EUGENIO SANCHEZ PENA)
[email protected] 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (arthur blair) 
[email protected] (Burt N Holzman)
[email protected] (Allen Halsell) 
[email protected] (C. Douglas Baker)
[email protected] (Craig Garnett)
[email protected] (Christian L Claiborn)
[email protected] (Ernest A. Cline)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Chris Payne)
[email protected] (David Cuthbert) 
[email protected] (Johanna Draper) 
[email protected] 
[email protected] (David R. Henry)
[email protected] (Deepak V. Ramani)
[email protected] (Bertrand Petit) 
[email protected] (zombie) 
[email protected] (Sean P. Ryan)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (John Holbrook (PAD))
[email protected] (Jay Laefer)
[email protected] (Scowling Jim Cowling) 
[email protected] (Jon Drukman)
[email protected] (Joshua Michael Wolf)
[email protected] (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
[email protected] (The Spider)
[email protected] (John R. MacWilliamson) 
[email protected] (Julian Macassey) 
[email protected] (Michael K Leung)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS)
[email protected] ((Thorongil) Paul Adams)
[email protected] (Paul Martin Barry) 
[email protected] (R.J.JOHNSTON)
[email protected] (Edward Piou)
[email protected] (Sendhil Revuluri)
[email protected] (Ronald Kinion) 
[email protected] (Rose Marie Delckum)
[email protected] (Bill Roper) 
[email protected] (Russ Allbery)
[email protected] (cruz ramirez daniel)
[email protected] (Marc Moorcroft)
[email protected] 
[email protected] (Dwight Brown)
[email protected] (Michael Parks Swaim)
[email protected] (Mark A. Thompson) 
[email protected] (Ward F. Bush)
[email protected] (William B. May)

ABSTENTIONS were received from the following people:

[email protected] (Francis A Uy)
[email protected] 
-- 
Mark James      *** Opinions, errors etc are mine. ***
Dialogic Corporation, 300 Littleton Road    | 
Parsippany NJ 07054, U.S.A.                 | "Duluth, jocko!  You can
+1 201 334 1268 ext 438  Fax +1 201 334 1257|  get Tierra del Fuego!"


From [email protected] Mon Aug 21 00:29:18 2000
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Kate the Short)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.other-media,rec.arts.comics.info
Subject: RFD: rec.arts.comics.other-media (REMOVE)
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: rec.arts.comics.other-media
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:27:24 GMT
Lines: 148
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11574 news.groups:363233 rec.arts.comics.misc:353356 rec.arts.comics.other-media:16707 rec.arts.comics.info:8315

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
 REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media (renamed to rec.arts.comics.misc)

This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for the removal of the
newsgroup rec.arts.comics.other-media.  This is not a Call for Votes
(CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural details are below.

RATIONALE: rec.arts.comics.other-media

The original rationale for creating rec.arts.comics.other-media stated:

   "This group will bring together a well-defined, conceptually unified
   set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are
   often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high
   signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for
   isolating the topics in their own newsgroup."

rec.arts.comics.other-media was primarily designed to remove long,
discussion-light threads such as X-men Movie casting call threads,
superhero song threads, and Lois & Clark TV show discussion out of the
rest of the rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups.  In practice, this has not
been the case.  Most of the topics mentioned above have little to do
with each other, and the artificial nature of the topic distinction
means that discussion is somewhat limited.  Rather than creating a
"conceptually unified" set of posts, the newsgroup only collects
a chaotic, widely-scattered set of posts on varied topics.

In general, new readers of the rac.* newsgroups have not realized
that they're supposed to post discussion of the above topics to
rac.other-media instead of the group where the above are "obviously"
on topic.  Therefore, most discussion of the X-Men movie and cartoon
has still been posted to rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks, not to
rac.other-media.  Secondly, those that do know of the existence of the
group often protest any requests to move discussion there, claiming
(truthfully) that most people who answer questions about differences
in movie and comics continuity don't even *read* the rac.other-media
newsgroup.  Instead of unifying discussion, the creation of the group
has generally stifled it.

The following numbers are meant to be a general illustration of the
proportions of traffic between some of the rec.arts.comics.* groups:

On August 15, 2000, a list of headers in the comics-related newsgroups
was downloaded from news.enteract.com.  While the group rac.other-media
had 345 posts in it for the period of time between July 25 and August
15, this was mostly due to the explosion of discussion after the release
of the X-Men movie.  If one counts just those posts made between August
12-14, the count drops to 23 posts, or a mere 7-8 posts per day.  A
Deja search for the week of June 21-28 lists 41 posts, with some of
those crossposted to other rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups-- again, a
count of 6-7 posts per day.

At the same time, a count of posts in rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe
between July 25 and August 15 on news.enteract.com yielded 3656 posts,
of which 133 were in a thread titled "netcop debacle - why it matters",
discussing the failure of rac.other-media.

Clearly, denizens of the rac.* hierarchy are passionate about their
charters and their discussions.  It was due to netcopping flamewars,
and the philosophy that *all* or *none* of the groups should follow
rac.other-media's charter, that the Superman newsgroup was named
"rec.arts.SF.superman" instead of "rec.arts.COMICS.superman".

Two things prevent an easy solution to the problem.  First, there is
no official charter-changing process currently in place in the Big 8
hierarchy of newsgroups, so those newsgroups that wanted to loosen or
tighten their other-media stance cannot "officially" do so.  Unofficial
polls could be seen as "non-binding", and lead to further netcopping
debates.  Second, many of those who are helpfully redirecting movie or
TV traffic to rac.other-media from the main groups *agree* that the
topics could or should be allowed throughout the rec.arts.comics.*
hierarchy, but have decided that since an official RFD and vote were
held to create rac.other-media, an official vote is needed to allow it
back onto the core groups.

At this point, the X-men movie has been made, Lois & Clark is long-
cancelled, and the movie and television threads aren't seen as annoying
by most of rac.* any longer.  The best solution, therefore, is to
officially vote to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media, and redirect the
general discussion of comics in other media to rec.arts.comics.misc and
the specific discussions (X-Men movie, Lois & Clark tv series, and the
like) to the groups set aside to discuss those characters in the comics.

CHARTER:

[This is the original charter, copied from "2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics
 reorganization" posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups on
 29 Mar 1995;  for the RFD, CFVs, and result postings, please see
 ]

rec.arts.comics.other-media

        rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created
        in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including
        animated and live-action television and movies, radio, prose,
        music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and
        posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in
        this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing
        comic book characters is specifically excluded from this group.

        Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line
        keywords will be heavily encouraged.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups).  This RFD will be
posted again should there be any alterations done to it.  If there is
a desire to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media after the discussion
period, a Call For Votes (CFV) will be posted by a neutral votetaker.
Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:

 news.groups, news.announce.newgroups, rec.arts.comics.info,
 rec.arts.comics.misc, rec.arts.comics.other-media

This RFD will be posted to the following mailing list:

 [email protected]

Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:

 alt.comics.batman, alt.animation.batman, alt.tv.superman-adventures,
 rec.arts.comics.alternative, rec.arts.comics.dc.lsh,
 rec.arts.comics.dc.universe, rec.arts.comics.dc.vertigo,
 rec.arts.comics.elfquest, rec.arts.comics.european,
 rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe, rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks,
 rec.arts.comics.strips, rec.arts.sf.superman


Proponent: Kate the Short 
Proponent: Michael Alan Chary 

From [email protected] Sun Sep 24 20:43:51 2000
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin 
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.other-media,rec.arts.comics.info
Subject: CFV: rec.arts.comics.other-media (REMOVE)
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 17 Oct 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: rec.arts.comics.other-media
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 03:42:39 GMT
Lines: 219
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11586 news.groups:365734 rec.arts.comics.misc:357548 rec.arts.comics.other-media:17060 rec.arts.comics.info:8355

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
 REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media (renamed to rec.arts.comics.misc)

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Oct 2000.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Kate the Short 
Proponent: Michael Alan Chary 
Votetaker: Neil Crellin 

RATIONALE: rec.arts.comics.other-media

The original rationale for creating rec.arts.comics.other-media stated:

   "This group will bring together a well-defined, conceptually unified
   set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are
   often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high
   signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for
   isolating the topics in their own newsgroup."

rec.arts.comics.other-media was primarily designed to remove long,
discussion-light threads such as X-men Movie casting call threads,
superhero song threads, and Lois & Clark TV show discussion out of the
rest of the rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups.  In practice, this has not
been the case.  Most of the topics mentioned above have little to do
with each other, and the artificial nature of the topic distinction
means that discussion is somewhat limited.  Rather than creating a
"conceptually unified" set of posts, the newsgroup only collects
a chaotic, widely-scattered set of posts on varied topics.

In general, new readers of the rac.* newsgroups have not realized
that they're supposed to post discussion of the above topics to
rac.other-media instead of the group where the above are "obviously"
on topic.  Therefore, most discussion of the X-Men movie and cartoon
has still been posted to rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks, not to
rac.other-media.  Secondly, those that do know of the existence of the
group often protest any requests to move discussion there, claiming
(truthfully) that most people who answer questions about differences
in movie and comics continuity don't even *read* the rac.other-media
newsgroup.  Instead of unifying discussion, the creation of the group
has generally stifled it.

The following numbers are meant to be a general illustration of the
proportions of traffic between some of the rec.arts.comics.* groups:

On August 15, 2000, a list of headers in the comics-related newsgroups
was downloaded from news.enteract.com.  While the group rac.other-media
had 345 posts in it for the period of time between July 25 and August
15, this was mostly due to the explosion of discussion after the release
of the X-Men movie.  If one counts just those posts made between August
12-14, the count drops to 23 posts, or a mere 7-8 posts per day.  A
Deja search for the week of June 21-28 lists 41 posts, with some of
those crossposted to other rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups-- again, a
count of 6-7 posts per day.

At the same time, a count of posts in rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe
between July 25 and August 15 on news.enteract.com yielded 3656 posts,
of which 133 were in a thread titled "netcop debacle - why it matters",
discussing the failure of rac.other-media.

Clearly, denizens of the rac.* hierarchy are passionate about their
charters and their discussions.  It was due to netcopping flamewars,
and the philosophy that *all* or *none* of the groups should follow
rac.other-media's charter, that the Superman newsgroup was named
"rec.arts.SF.superman" instead of "rec.arts.COMICS.superman".

Two things prevent an easy solution to the problem.  First, there is
no official charter-changing process currently in place in the Big 8
hierarchy of newsgroups, so those newsgroups that wanted to loosen or
tighten their other-media stance cannot "officially" do so.  Unofficial
polls could be seen as "non-binding", and lead to further netcopping
debates.  Second, many of those who are helpfully redirecting movie or
TV traffic to rac.other-media from the main groups *agree* that the
topics could or should be allowed throughout the rec.arts.comics.*
hierarchy, but have decided that since an official RFD and vote were
held to create rac.other-media, an official vote is needed to allow it
back onto the core groups.

At this point, the X-men movie has been made, Lois & Clark is long-
cancelled, and the movie and television threads aren't seen as annoying
by most of rac.* any longer.  The best solution, therefore, is to
officially vote to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media, and redirect the
general discussion of comics in other media to rec.arts.comics.misc and
the specific discussions (X-Men movie, Lois & Clark tv series, and the
like) to the groups set aside to discuss those characters in the comics.

CHARTER: rec.arts.comics.other-media

[This is the original charter, copied from "2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics
 reorganization" posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups on
 29 Mar 1995;  for the RFD, CFVs, and result postings, please see
 ]

rec.arts.comics.other-media

        rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created
        in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including
        animated and live-action television and movies, radio, prose,
        music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and
        posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in
        this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing
        comic book characters is specifically excluded from this group.

        Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line
        keywords will be heavily encouraged.

END CHARTER.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent
accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged"
address he cannot decipher immediately.

Please direct any questions to the votetaker at 

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.

If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: rec.arts.comics.other-media
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

DISTRIBUTION:

Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:

alt.animation.batman
alt.comics.batman
alt.tv.superman-adventures
rec.arts.comics.alternative
rec.arts.comics.dc.lsh
rec.arts.comics.dc.universe
rec.arts.comics.dc.vertigo
rec.arts.comics.elfquest
rec.arts.comics.european
rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe
rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks
rec.arts.comics.strips
rec.arts.sf.superman

and the following mailing list:

Legion of Super-Heroes List (lsh-l)
Submission address: [email protected]
Subscription address: [email protected] (subscribe lsh-l)

This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999).
PQ datestamp: 980322

-- 
Voting address: [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Oct  4 17:43:27 2000
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin 
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.other-media,rec.arts.comics.info
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics.other-media (REMOVE)
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 17 Oct 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: rec.arts.comics.other-media
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 00:31:56 GMT
Lines: 223
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11592 news.groups:366629 rec.arts.comics.misc:358265 rec.arts.comics.other-media:17095 rec.arts.comics.info:8363

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
 REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media (renamed to rec.arts.comics.misc)

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Oct 2000.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Kate the Short 
Proponent: Michael Alan Chary 
Votetaker: Neil Crellin 

RATIONALE: rec.arts.comics.other-media

The original rationale for creating rec.arts.comics.other-media stated:

   "This group will bring together a well-defined, conceptually unified
   set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are
   often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high
   signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for
   isolating the topics in their own newsgroup."

rec.arts.comics.other-media was primarily designed to remove long,
discussion-light threads such as X-men Movie casting call threads,
superhero song threads, and Lois & Clark TV show discussion out of the
rest of the rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups.  In practice, this has not
been the case.  Most of the topics mentioned above have little to do
with each other, and the artificial nature of the topic distinction
means that discussion is somewhat limited.  Rather than creating a
"conceptually unified" set of posts, the newsgroup only collects
a chaotic, widely-scattered set of posts on varied topics.

In general, new readers of the rac.* newsgroups have not realized
that they're supposed to post discussion of the above topics to
rac.other-media instead of the group where the above are "obviously"
on topic.  Therefore, most discussion of the X-Men movie and cartoon
has still been posted to rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks, not to
rac.other-media.  Secondly, those that do know of the existence of the
group often protest any requests to move discussion there, claiming
(truthfully) that most people who answer questions about differences
in movie and comics continuity don't even *read* the rac.other-media
newsgroup.  Instead of unifying discussion, the creation of the group
has generally stifled it.

The following numbers are meant to be a general illustration of the
proportions of traffic between some of the rec.arts.comics.* groups:

On August 15, 2000, a list of headers in the comics-related newsgroups
was downloaded from news.enteract.com.  While the group rac.other-media
had 345 posts in it for the period of time between July 25 and August
15, this was mostly due to the explosion of discussion after the release
of the X-Men movie.  If one counts just those posts made between August
12-14, the count drops to 23 posts, or a mere 7-8 posts per day.  A
Deja search for the week of June 21-28 lists 41 posts, with some of
those crossposted to other rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups-- again, a
count of 6-7 posts per day.

At the same time, a count of posts in rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe
between July 25 and August 15 on news.enteract.com yielded 3656 posts,
of which 133 were in a thread titled "netcop debacle - why it matters",
discussing the failure of rac.other-media.

Clearly, denizens of the rac.* hierarchy are passionate about their
charters and their discussions.  It was due to netcopping flamewars,
and the philosophy that *all* or *none* of the groups should follow
rac.other-media's charter, that the Superman newsgroup was named
"rec.arts.SF.superman" instead of "rec.arts.COMICS.superman".

Two things prevent an easy solution to the problem.  First, there is
no official charter-changing process currently in place in the Big 8
hierarchy of newsgroups, so those newsgroups that wanted to loosen or
tighten their other-media stance cannot "officially" do so.  Unofficial
polls could be seen as "non-binding", and lead to further netcopping
debates.  Second, many of those who are helpfully redirecting movie or
TV traffic to rac.other-media from the main groups *agree* that the
topics could or should be allowed throughout the rec.arts.comics.*
hierarchy, but have decided that since an official RFD and vote were
held to create rac.other-media, an official vote is needed to allow it
back onto the core groups.

At this point, the X-men movie has been made, Lois & Clark is long-
cancelled, and the movie and television threads aren't seen as annoying
by most of rac.* any longer.  The best solution, therefore, is to
officially vote to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media, and redirect the
general discussion of comics in other media to rec.arts.comics.misc and
the specific discussions (X-Men movie, Lois & Clark tv series, and the
like) to the groups set aside to discuss those characters in the comics.

CHARTER: rec.arts.comics.other-media

[This is the original charter, copied from "2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics
 reorganization" posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups on
 29 Mar 1995;  for the RFD, CFVs, and result postings, please see
 ]

rec.arts.comics.other-media

        rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created
        in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including
        animated and live-action television and movies, radio, prose,
        music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and
        posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in
        this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing
        comic book characters is specifically excluded from this group.

        Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line
        keywords will be heavily encouraged.

END CHARTER.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent
accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged"
address he cannot decipher immediately.

Please direct any questions to the votetaker at 

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.

If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: rec.arts.comics.other-media
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

DISTRIBUTION:

Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:

alt.animation.batman
alt.comics.batman
alt.tv.superman-adventures
rec.arts.comics.alternative
rec.arts.comics.dc.lsh
rec.arts.comics.dc.universe
rec.arts.comics.dc.vertigo
rec.arts.comics.elfquest
rec.arts.comics.european
rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe
rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks
rec.arts.comics.strips
rec.arts.sf.superman

and the following mailing list:

Legion of Super-Heroes List (lsh-l)
Submission address: [email protected]
Subscription address: [email protected] (subscribe lsh-l)

rec.arts.comics.other-media (REMOVE) Bounce List - Please contact me about your vote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                        Brandon Blatcher

This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999).
PQ datestamp: 980322

-- 
Voting address: [email protected]

From [email protected] Sun Oct 22 22:13:18 2000
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin 
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.other-media,rec.arts.comics.info
Subject: RESULT: rec.arts.comics.other-media fails 139:40
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: rec.arts.comics.other-media
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 05:06:22 GMT
Lines: 345
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11601 news.groups:367756 rec.arts.comics.misc:361027 rec.arts.comics.other-media:17192 rec.arts.comics.info:8386

                                RESULT
REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media (renamed to rec.arts.comics.misc) fails 139:40

There were 139 YES votes and 40 NO votes, for a total of 179 valid
votes.  There were 7 abstentions and 7 invalid ballots.

For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
(YES and NO) votes.  There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes.

A five day discussion period follows this announcement.  Unless
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the group
may not be voted on again for six months.

Newsgroups line:

The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Oct 2000.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Kate the Short 
Proponent: Michael Alan Chary 
Votetaker: Neil Crellin 

RATIONALE: rec.arts.comics.other-media

The original rationale for creating rec.arts.comics.other-media stated:

   "This group will bring together a well-defined, conceptually unified
   set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are
   often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high
   signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for
   isolating the topics in their own newsgroup."

rec.arts.comics.other-media was primarily designed to remove long,
discussion-light threads such as X-men Movie casting call threads,
superhero song threads, and Lois & Clark TV show discussion out of the
rest of the rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups.  In practice, this has not
been the case.  Most of the topics mentioned above have little to do
with each other, and the artificial nature of the topic distinction
means that discussion is somewhat limited.  Rather than creating a
"conceptually unified" set of posts, the newsgroup only collects
a chaotic, widely-scattered set of posts on varied topics.

In general, new readers of the rac.* newsgroups have not realized
that they're supposed to post discussion of the above topics to
rac.other-media instead of the group where the above are "obviously"
on topic.  Therefore, most discussion of the X-Men movie and cartoon
has still been posted to rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks, not to
rac.other-media.  Secondly, those that do know of the existence of the
group often protest any requests to move discussion there, claiming
(truthfully) that most people who answer questions about differences
in movie and comics continuity don't even *read* the rac.other-media
newsgroup.  Instead of unifying discussion, the creation of the group
has generally stifled it.

The following numbers are meant to be a general illustration of the
proportions of traffic between some of the rec.arts.comics.* groups:

On August 15, 2000, a list of headers in the comics-related newsgroups
was downloaded from news.enteract.com.  While the group rac.other-media
had 345 posts in it for the period of time between July 25 and August
15, this was mostly due to the explosion of discussion after the release
of the X-Men movie.  If one counts just those posts made between August
12-14, the count drops to 23 posts, or a mere 7-8 posts per day.  A
Deja search for the week of June 21-28 lists 41 posts, with some of
those crossposted to other rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups-- again, a
count of 6-7 posts per day.

At the same time, a count of posts in rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe
between July 25 and August 15 on news.enteract.com yielded 3656 posts,
of which 133 were in a thread titled "netcop debacle - why it matters",
discussing the failure of rac.other-media.

Clearly, denizens of the rac.* hierarchy are passionate about their
charters and their discussions.  It was due to netcopping flamewars,
and the philosophy that *all* or *none* of the groups should follow
rac.other-media's charter, that the Superman newsgroup was named
"rec.arts.SF.superman" instead of "rec.arts.COMICS.superman".

Two things prevent an easy solution to the problem.  First, there is
no official charter-changing process currently in place in the Big 8
hierarchy of newsgroups, so those newsgroups that wanted to loosen or
tighten their other-media stance cannot "officially" do so.  Unofficial
polls could be seen as "non-binding", and lead to further netcopping
debates.  Second, many of those who are helpfully redirecting movie or
TV traffic to rac.other-media from the main groups *agree* that the
topics could or should be allowed throughout the rec.arts.comics.*
hierarchy, but have decided that since an official RFD and vote were
held to create rac.other-media, an official vote is needed to allow it
back onto the core groups.

At this point, the X-men movie has been made, Lois & Clark is long-
cancelled, and the movie and television threads aren't seen as annoying
by most of rac.* any longer.  The best solution, therefore, is to
officially vote to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media, and redirect the
general discussion of comics in other media to rec.arts.comics.misc and
the specific discussions (X-Men movie, Lois & Clark tv series, and the
like) to the groups set aside to discuss those characters in the comics.

CHARTER: rec.arts.comics.other-media

[This is the original charter, copied from "2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics
 reorganization" posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups on
 29 Mar 1995;  for the RFD, CFVs, and result postings, please see
 ]

rec.arts.comics.other-media

        rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created
        in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including
        animated and live-action television and movies, radio, prose,
        music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and
        posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in
        this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing
        comic book characters is specifically excluded from this group.

        Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line
        keywords will be heavily encouraged.

END CHARTER.



rec.arts.comics.other-media Final Voter list

NOTE:  This is not [to be used as] a mailing list.  The email addresses
are posted only to help verify the interest poll.  Thank you.

Voted YES
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
woof [at] greatcircle.net.au                                      James Carman
garyjohnson [at] uq.net.au                                        Gary Johnson
brian [at] gweep.bc.ca                                           Brian Edmonds
Jim.Cowling [at] leg.bc.ca                                         Jim Cowling
David.Tallan [at] mbs.gov.on.ca                                   David Tallan
travis [at] SEDSystems.ca                                   Shane H. W. Travis
Teddykgb [at] sympatico.ca                                          Max Murray
david.roy [at] ubc.ca                                                David Roy
BradBB [at] aol.com                                                Brad Bethke
dwaynem595 [at] aol.com                                        Dwayne McDuffie
Jccubby [at] aol.com                                              Jim Caldwell
JOlson2623 [at] aol.com                                              Jim Olson
KalElFan [at] aol.com                                    Anthony Michael Walsh
matthewgp [at] aol.com                                          Matthew Pehler
querlb5 [at] aol.com                                             Jason Fliegel
Wolf031877 [at] aol.com                                            James Venes
20000909 [at] bbsdaze.com                                        Joshua Warren
stainles [at] bga.com                                             Dwight Brown
a_blip [at] bigfoot.com                                         Pal Are Nordal
TVerBeek [at] bigfoot.com                                         Todd VerBeek
MMRosa [at] bigpond.com                                            Michal Rosa
stef [at] cat-and-dragon.com                                       Stef Maruch
chuck [at] comiclist.com                                     Charles S. LePage
johanna [at] comicsworthreading.com                     Johanna Draper Carlson
72027.3605 [at] compuserve.com                                      Bob Bailin
ShutUpRobEBoy [at] cs.com                                           Rob Jensen
eridani [at] databasix.com                                             Belinda
andrewj [at] echonyc.com                                       Andrew Johnston
cavalier [at] engineer.com                                          Rob Lorenz
aardy [at] enteract.com                                      Aardy R. DeVarque
tjmc [at] enteract.com                                                    tjmc
jinx13 [at] erols.com                                                     JinX
mcclenon [at] erols.com                                           Bob McClenon
smlucas [at] famvid.com                                           Steven Lucas
xfan [at] fandom.com                                           Eric J. Moreels
david [at] farrar.com                                             David Farrar
jgraham [at] fullerlandau.com                                     Jamie Graham
luke [at] ga2so.com                                               Luke Gattuso
prs [at] gol.com                                              Peter Stephenson
ahsdreamwalker [at] home.com                                      Daniel Sauve
andrew829 [at] home.com                                          Andrew Lannen
ankenbauer [at] home.com                                  Joseph M. Ankenbauer
casimiri8359 [at] home.com               Phil Casimiri (on behalf of F/B #914)
zombie67 [at] home.com                                               Erik Veit
brak_brak [at] hotmail.com                                        Anne Ritchie
bredon [at] hotmail.com                                       Robert M. Camisa
twisting [at] hotmail.com                                        Rich Johnston
don [at] iCynic.com                                                  Don Woods
barkerjr [at] iFreedom.com                                            BarkerJr
catwoman [at] iglou.com                                            Cath Wolffe
centurycity [at] iname.com                                       Peter Likidis
dalek [at] io.com                                              David J. Snyder
christian [at] JASDigital.com                                  christian smith
wiz [at] lart.com                                                          Wiz
tjarks [at] lucent.com                                              Tim Tjarks
ravenskana [at] mac.com                                         Jon Scott Hall
Troy [at] McNemar.com                                          T. Troy McNemar
erica [at] mindspring.com                                          Erica Sadun
ernestcline [at] mindspring.com                                   Ernest Cline
klemons [at] mindspring.com                                         Ken Lemons
trainman1 [at] mindspring.com                                    Jim Ellwanger
djperry [at] my-deja.com                                             Dan Perry
fajuto [at] my-deja.com                                       Francisco Fajuto
fran_keeling [at] my-deja.com                                  Frances Keeling
marc [at] panel1.com                                               Marc Fleury
mra [at] pobox.com                                                 Mark Atwood
bhance [at] primenet.com                                           Brian Hance
sward [at] primenet.com                                        Sidne Gail Ward
ShadZ [at] rocketmail.com                                          Shad Z Daly
xyzzy [at] kc.rr.com                                             Edward Framls
alexis [at] twcny.rr.com                                                Alexis
bill [at] scconsult.com                                              Bill Cole
Joeno [at] sevspace.com                                       Jeroen te Strake
jamesc [at] bassclar.eng.sun.com                                James Langdell
ry [at] teleport.com                                                Ryan Gavin
nsmith [at] hou.asp.ti.com                                          Neal Smith
joele [at] tminet.com                                             Joel Ehrlich
todd [at] toddkogutt.com                                           Todd Kogutt
kjh [at] tsoft.com                                                 Karl Hiller
kmaroney [at] ungames.com                                     Kevin J. Maroney
roper [at] xnet.com                                                 Bill Roper
comichistory [at] yahoo.com                                      Jamie Coville
racmx [at] yahoo.com                                            Kate the Short
naddy [at] mips.inka.de                                   Christian Weisgerber
bouvin [at] daimi.au.dk                                      Niels Olof Bouvin
peteralf [at] fabel.dk                                         Peter Alfredsen
William_Hahn [at] baylor.edu                                  William Hahn

fungus [at] OCF.Berkeley.EDU                                         Hank Fung
kts [at] socrates.Berkeley.EDU                                   Katie Schwarz
tlynch [at] alumni.caltech.edu                                       Tim Lynch
jgilmo72 [at] calvin.edu                                         James Gilmore
dvr3 [at] cornell.edu                                            Deepak Ramani
dsr [at] mail.lns.cornell.edu                                        Dan Riley
dubach [at] dcepea.harvard.edu                                     Joev Dubach
mchary [at] steel2.ucs.indiana.edu                               Michael Chary
jharvey [at] iupui.edu                                            James Harvey
amnewt01 [at] louisville.edu                                      Aaron Newton
w-loo [at] northwestern.edu                                        William Loo
em11 [at] nyu.edu                                                   Ed Mathews
jjt184 [at] psu.edu                                              Jeremy Turner
rra [at] stanford.edu                                             Russ Allbery
bcr19374 [at] pegasus.cc.ucf.edu                                Brian Robinson
Phantom-Stranger [at] mail.utexas.edu                               Dan Nguyen
rufinus [at] mbe.ece.wisc.edu                                        J Rufinus
Paul-Hahn [at] library.wustl.edu                           Paul Shin-Hong Hahn
skaps24 [at] teleline.es                                      Rosendo Manrique
lsarakon [at] cc.hut.fi                                        Liisa Sarakontu
blix [at] cybercable.fr                                         JEREMY MANESSE
carl.henderson [at] airmail.net                                 Carl Henderson
b.menon [at] worldnet.att.net                                       Bala Menon
lighton [at] monet.bestweb.net                                   Kevin Lighton
bard [at] digital-marketplace.net                                         Bard
ellis [at] ftel.net                                                 Rick Ellis
alexis.manning [at] gte.net                                     Alexis Manning
lkseitz [at] mail.hiwaay.net                                      Lee K. Seitz
emdoub [at] hockey.net                          Midnight Writer, aka Dan Brady
hwesson [at] ipa.net                                             Hayley Wesson
tswlmw [at] mediaone.net                                    Tim & Lisa Webster
bmart [at] optonline.net                                            Bob Martin
arromdee [at] rahul.net                                           Ken Arromdee
bzednick [at] sapling.net                                        Brian Zednick
lleshin [at] spamcop.net                                            Len Leshin
bob149 [at] uswest.net                                           bob blanchard
hboneflash [at] voyager.net                                   Jason Cunningham
BK-421 [at] webtv.net                                             Brian Kovich
Renzo.boomkamp [at] gelrevision.nl                              Renzo Boomkamp
r.vanette [at] pink.nl                                     Robert-Jan van Ette
jsyers [at] acm.org                                                 John Syers
denebeim [at] deepthot.org                                        Jay Denebeim
baloo [at] ursine.dyndns.org                                     Baloo Ursidae
joeshaw [at] oh.krunk.org                                             Joe Shaw
dave [at] technopagan.org                                       David E. Smith
darkmasters [at] mail.telepac.pt                                   Paulo Costa
jwm1 [at] st-andrews.ac.uk                                          James Moar
tr3 [at] ukc.ac.uk                                          Tim Roll-Pickering
paul [at] esoterica.demon.co.uk                                   Paul O'Brien
nick [at] pheasnt.demon.co.uk                                        Nick Eden
al [at] kuhl-graham.fsnet.co.uk                                    Alan Graham
chriseb [at] ukshells.co.uk                                     Chris Ebenezer

Voted NO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ablack01 [at] optushome.com.au                                    Andrew Black
cgoodin [at] sfu.ca                                                Chuk Goodin
knott [at] cs.ubc.ca                                                Dave Knott
eds7466 [at] UMoncton.CA                                          Danny Sichel
sbarrie [at] julian.uwo.ca                                     Scott B. Barrie
vartox [at] aol.com                                                Jesse Groth
kimdv [at] best.com                                               Kim DeVaughn
sbennie [at] dowco.com
bbailie [at] erols.com                                         Brian H. Bailie
dogwelder [at] erols.com                                             Bobby Yee
sk8maven [at] home.com                                           Bettina Helms
jwalker_63 [at] hotmail.com                                         Jim Walker
phippsmartin [at] hotmail.com                                    Martin Phipps
zimnyzenon [at] hotmail.com                                    Zenobiusz Zimny
swmoore [at] hypercon.com                                          Steve Moore
gprrspw [at] mindspring.com                                          G.P. Ryan
wgarmil [at] world.std.com                                        Wayne Garmil
pan [at] syix.com                                                          Pan
pimentel [at] ultranet.com                                       John Pimentel
korpela [at] ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu                               Eric Korpela
bfagan [at] lib.siu.edu                                         Bryan D. Fagan
jamesony [at] usc.edu                                    Jameson Stalanthas Yu
samerc [at] mash.yok.utu.fi                                        Samy Merchi
llehmann [at] club-internet.fr                                 Laurent Lehmann
david [at] iolfree.ie                                            David O'Brien
ginnytak [at] dd.catv.ne.jp                                        T.  Hiraoka
syoung [at] bignet.net                                       Scott Baker-Young
w_stone [at] ev1.net                                                Walt Stone
pheersum [at] netwizards.net                                          Pheersum
wakelyn [at] pinn.net                                            N. T. Wakelyn
yourheartout [at] starpower.net       Jeff Troutman

| Insert YES, NO, =
morpy [at] usa.net                                                 David Welsh
gsch [at] uswest.net                                             Greg Schienke
faulds [at] es.co.nz                                      Stuart Brodie Faulds
lvirden [at] cas.org
stend [at] sten.org                                            Sten M Drescher
jolun [at] algonet.se                                          Johan Lundstrom
the.allens [at] cableinet.co.uk                                    Terry Allen
adam.huby [at] ffei.co.uk                                            Adam Huby
jon [at] thomson2273.freeserve.co.uk                               Jon Thomson

Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
atkokmen [at] aol.com                                            Ali T. Kokmen
tyg [at] panix.com                                                Tom Galloway
francis_uy [at] yahoo.com                                           Francis Uy
goldfarb [at] OCF.Berkeley.EDU                                  David Goldfarb
seyman [at] wanadoo.fr                                         Emmanuel Seyman
carlf [at] dm.net                                                    Carl Fink
mmontcha [at] OregonVOS.net                                 Matthew Montchalin

Invalid votes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jbh [at] dim.goawayspam.com                                       Joe Helfrich
    ! Undeliverable address: unroutable mail domain
slam [at] cc419214-a.twsn1.md.home.com                       Michael Glicksman
    ! Undeliverable address: connection timed out
sandray [at] in-tch.com                                      Raymond J Down Jr
    ! Undeliverable address: User unknown
h_shipman [at] ix.netcom.com                                       Hal Shipman
    ! Undeliverable address: 550 User unknown
flash [at] pobox.com                                            Flash Sheridan
    ! Undeliverable address: rahul.net blocking [email protected]
nomadic [at] worldnet.hiddenimplants.att.net                  Brandon Blatcher
    ! Invalid address: Name service error for domain: Host not found
TheMeaneys [at] worldnet.att.net                                   The Meaneys
    ! No vote statement in message


-- 
Neil Crellin, UVV