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Other media ( rec.arts.comics.other-media )

From [email protected] Mon Jan  3 17:49:05 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Elmo) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv Subject: RFD: rec.arts.comics.other-media Followup-To: news.groups Date: 3 Jan 1994 16:57:54 -0500 Organization: Comics, Comics, Comics Lines: 119 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected], [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4427 news.groups:91310 alt.comics.batman:1414 alt.comics.superman:2480 rec.arts.comics.info:551 rec.arts.comics.misc:59028 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:14726 rec.arts.animation:17928 rec.arts.movies:151339 rec.arts.tv:98871 rec.arts.sf.tv:19107  REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION: rec.arts.comics.other-media (unmoderated)  ONE LINE DESCRIPTION:  Comic book spinoffs in other media (unmoderated)  ONE FOURTH-GRADE-LEVEL SENTENCE DESCRIPTION:  rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, such as movies, TV, prose, and toys.  RATIONALE:  This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually unified set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for isolating the topics in their own newsgroup.  The concept, name, and charter have been thoroughly hashed out via straw  polls in the "home" group, rec.arts.comics.misc.  In particular, the name and charter given here received overwhelming support in these straw polls.  GROUPS:  This RFD (and later CFV) is being posted to those groups most directly  affected by the split:  alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman, rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks, rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv, news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.  Followups are directed to news.groups only.  CHARTER:  rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including animated and live-action TV and movies, prose, and toys and other merchandising.  Posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group.    Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line KEYWORDS  will heavily encouraged.  + LINE ITEMS WITH EXAMPLES:    o INCLUDED TOPICS:      - Animated and live-action television and movies:          Batman Returns, Batman: The Animated Series, X-Men: The Animated         Series, the upcoming Spider-Man movie.      - Prose works, including novels and anthologies:          The "Further Adventures of" anthologies, "The Death and Life of         Superman".      - Toys and other merchandise:          The "rare" Invisible Woman action figure, Happy Meal toys,         Underoos, bisque figurines, art portfolios, t-shirts.      - Music:          MAXXimum Sound, the hardy perennial discussion of "superheroes         in popular music".      - "Casting Calls":          Deserving a special note, these are the hardy perennial discussions         of "Who would play  in a movie?", particularly concerning         Sandman's Endless or Marvel's X-Men.      - Radio:          The 40's radio adventures of Superman.    o EXCLUDED TOPICS:      - Anime and Manga:          These have their own groups.      - Trading Cards:          These also have their own groups.      - Superhero-inspired material in other media *not* based on existing       comic book characters:          The "Wild Cards" anthologies, "Stan Lee's Riftworld", Meteor Man.         These are not comic spinoffs, and superheroes != comics.      - Fanfic:          Fanfic falls into two categories: Either it's based on existing         comic book characters, in which case it is an illegal violation of         copyright and/or trademark, or it's not based on existing comic         book characters, in which case it's only comic-inspired.  In either         case, this is not appropriate material for rac.o-m; the second         category also violates the six-month rule following the failed         rec.arts.comics.creative vote.      - Comic books based on characters from other media:          Transformers, Star Wars, Aliens, Terminator.  These discussions         are about comics books and belong in rec.arts.comics.misc.      - Metatopics: Books, movies, etc., about comic book creators, art,       history.          "Understanding Comics", "Comic Book Confidential", "Comic Book         Superstars" video series, "Superman: From the 30's to the 70's".         These are not stories about comic book characters but about comic          books and belong in rec.arts.comics.misc. --  elmo ([email protected],[email protected])  From [email protected] Sat Jan 22 17:57:54 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (The Elmo Files) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.arts.comics.other-media Followup-To: news.groups Date: 22 Jan 1994 16:26:50 -0500 Organization: The Truth Is Out There Lines: 125 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected], [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: [email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4494 news.groups:92716 alt.comics.batman:1596 alt.comics.superman:2775 rec.arts.comics.info:605 rec.arts.comics.misc:61677 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:15432 rec.arts.animation:18231 rec.arts.movies:154822 rec.arts.tv:100894 rec.arts.sf.tv:20300  SECOND REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION: rec.arts.comics.other-media (unmoderated)   ONE LINE DESCRIPTION:  Comic book spinoffs in other media (unmoderated)  SLIGHTLY LONGER DESCRIPTION:  rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, such as movies, TV, prose, and toys.  RATIONALE:  This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually unified set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for isolating the topics in their own newsgroup.  The concept, name, and charter have been thoroughly hashed out via straw  polls in the "home" group, rec.arts.comics.misc.  In particular, the name and charter given here received overwhelming support in these straw polls.  This proposal is expected to go to a vote on or about Jan 29th.  GROUPS:  This RFD (and later CFV) is being posted to those groups most directly  affected by the split:  alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,alt.animation.warner-bros, rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks, rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.toys.misc, news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.  Note that rec.toys.misc has been added to the list following its creation. Note that alt.animation.warner-bros has been added following my discovery of its existence.  Followups are directed to news.groups only.  CHARTER:  rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including animated and live-action TV and movies, prose, and toys and other merchandising.  Posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group.    Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line KEYWORDS  will heavily encouraged.  o LINE ITEMS WITH EXAMPLES:    + INCLUDED TOPICS:      - Animated and live-action television and movies:          Batman Returns, Batman: The Animated Series, X-Men: The Animated         Series, the upcoming Spider-Man movie.      - Prose works, including novels and anthologies:          The "Further Adventures of" anthologies, "The Death and Life of         Superman".      - Toys and other merchandise:          The "rare" Invisible Woman action figure, Happy Meal toys,         Underoos, bisque figurines, art portfolios, t-shirts.      - Music:          MAXXimum Sound, the hardy perennial discussion of "superheroes         in popular music".      - "Casting Calls":          Deserving a special note, these are the hardy perennial discussions         of "Who would play  in a movie?", particularly concerning         Sandman's Endless or Marvel's X-Men.      - Radio:          The 40's radio adventures of Superman.    + EXCLUDED TOPICS:      - Anime and Manga:          These have their own groups.      - Trading Cards:          These also have their own groups.      - Superhero-inspired material in other media *not* based on existing       comic book characters:          The "Wild Cards" anthologies, "Stan Lee's Riftworld", Meteor Man.         These are not comic spinoffs, and superheroes != comics.      - Fanfic:          Fanfic falls into two categories: Either it's based on existing         comic book characters, in which case it is an illegal violation of         copyright and/or trademark, or it's not based on existing comic         book characters, in which case it's only comic-inspired.  In either         case, this is not appropriate material for rac.o-m; the second         cateogry also violates the six-month rule following the failed         rec.arts.comics.creative vote.      - Comic books based on characters from other media:          Transformers, Star Wars, Aliens, Terminator.  These discussions         are about comic books and belong in rec.arts.comics.misc.      - Metatopics: Books, movies, etc., about comic book creators, art,       history.          "Understanding Comics", "Comic Book Confidential", "Comic Book         Superstars" video series, "Superman: From the 30's to the 70's".         These are not stories about comic book characters but instead are          about comic books as a medium or superheroes as a genre and belong          in rec.arts.comics.misc.  From [email protected] Fri Feb  4 16:09:42 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Mark James) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.toys.misc Subject: CFV: rec.arts.comics.other-media Followup-To: poster Date: 1 Feb 1994 15:40:44 -0500 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 94 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected], [email protected] Expires: 23 Feb 1994 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4540 news.groups:93786 alt.comics.batman:1637 alt.comics.superman:2972 rec.arts.comics.info:635 rec.arts.comics.misc:63155 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:15898 rec.arts.animation:18457 rec.arts.movies:156410 rec.arts.tv:102163 rec.arts.sf.tv:21011 rec.toys.misc:356                        1st CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)                Unmoderated group rec.arts.comics.other-media   Newsgroups line: rec.arts.comics.other-media	Comic book spinoffs in other media.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 February 1994.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only, contact Mark James <[email protected]>.  For  questions about the proposed group, contact Greg Morrow  <[email protected]>.  The second RFD was crossposted to alt.animation.warner-bros.  Due to restrictions on the length of Newsgroups: line, it has not been  included in the list of groups receiving the CFVs.  The proposer will  post a pointer to the CFVs in that group.    CHARTER -------  rec.arts.comics.other-media is an unmoderated newsgroup for posts about characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including animated and live-action TV and movies, radio, prose, music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing comic book characters is off-charter.   Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line KEYWORDS will be heavily encouraged.   RATIONALE:  This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually unified set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for isolating the topics in their own newsgroup.    HOW TO VOTE -----------  You should send E-MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to:        [email protected]  Just replying by E-MAIL to this message should work, assuming you are reading this using standard newsreader software.  Your mail message  should contain one and only one of the following statements:        I vote YES on rec.arts.comics.other-media       I vote NO on rec.arts.comics.other-media       I ABSTAIN on rec.arts.comics.other-media       I CANCEL my vote on rec.arts.comics.other-media  You may add a comment, or use other wording, but only a definite,  unconditional, unambiguous statement for or against the creation of  rec.arts.comics.other-media will count as a vote.  Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve only to cancel any previous vote.  Abstentions are noted in the final vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely. (This is the only difference between the two.)  If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid vote will count.  All votes will be acknowledged by E-mail.  If you don't receive an acknowledgment within a few days of your vote, vote again.  It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  If you attempt multiple votes or  other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.   RESULT ------  The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including how each person voted.  Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret  ballot.  There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed.  The  requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes, and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES.  --  Mark James  <[email protected]>    *** Opinions, errors etc are mine. *** Dialogic Corporation, 300 Littleton Road    |  Parsippany NJ 07054, U.S.A.                 | "Duluth, jocko!  You can +1 201 334 1268 ext 438  Fax +1 201 334 1257|  get Tierra del Fuego!"  From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 19:53:38 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Mark James) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.toys.misc Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics.other-media Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: poster Date: 12 Feb 1994 00:33:29 -0500 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 104 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected], [email protected] Expires: 23 Feb 1994 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4607 news.groups:95213 alt.comics.batman:1740 alt.comics.superman:3109 rec.arts.comics.info:688 rec.arts.comics.misc:64916 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:16688 rec.arts.animation:18695 rec.arts.movies:158371 rec.arts.tv:103397 rec.arts.sf.tv:22001 rec.toys.misc:465                        2nd CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)                Unmoderated group rec.arts.comics.other-media   Newsgroups line: rec.arts.comics.other-media	Comic book spinoffs in other media.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 February 1994.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only, contact Mark James <[email protected]>.  For  questions about the proposed group, contact Greg Morrow  <[email protected]>.  The second RFD was crossposted to alt.animation.warner-bros.  Due to restrictions on the length of Newsgroups: line, it has not been  included in the list of groups receiving the CFVs.  The proposer will  post a pointer to the CFVs in that group.    CHARTER -------  rec.arts.comics.other-media is an unmoderated newsgroup for posts about characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including animated and live-action TV and movies, radio, prose, music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing comic book characters is off-charter.   Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line KEYWORDS will be heavily encouraged.   RATIONALE:  This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually unified set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for isolating the topics in their own newsgroup.    HOW TO VOTE -----------  You should send E-MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to:        [email protected]  Just replying by E-MAIL to this message should work, assuming you are reading this using standard newsreader software.  Your mail message  should contain one and only one of the following statements:        I vote YES on rec.arts.comics.other-media       I vote NO on rec.arts.comics.other-media       I ABSTAIN on rec.arts.comics.other-media       I CANCEL my vote on rec.arts.comics.other-media  You may add a comment, or use other wording, but only a definite,  unconditional, unambiguous statement for or against the creation of  rec.arts.comics.other-media will count as a vote.  Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve only to cancel any previous vote.  Abstentions are noted in the final vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely. (This is the only difference between the two.)  If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid vote will count.  All votes will be acknowledged by E-mail.  If you don't receive an acknowledgment within a few days of your vote, vote again.  It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  If you attempt multiple votes or  other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.   RESULT ------  The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including how each person voted.  Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret  ballot.  There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed.  The  requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes, and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES.    BOUNCED VOTE ACKNOWLEDGMENTS ----------------------------  Vote acknowledgment messages to the following addresses have bounced. (The votes have been counted.)  [email protected]  [email protected] (Jason Martin)  --  Mark James  <[email protected]>    *** Opinions, errors etc are mine. *** Dialogic Corporation, 300 Littleton Road    |  Parsippany NJ 07054, U.S.A.                 | "Duluth, jocko!  You can +1 201 334 1268 ext 438  Fax +1 201 334 1257|  get Tierra del Fuego!"  From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 17:56:54 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Mark James) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.comics.batman,alt.comics.superman,rec.arts.comics.info,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.toys.misc Subject: RESULT: rec.arts.comics.other-media fails 132:52 Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: news.groups Date: 24 Feb 1994 16:10:46 -0500 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 257 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected], [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4690 news.groups:96513 alt.comics.batman:1886 alt.comics.superman:3280 rec.arts.comics.info:730 rec.arts.comics.misc:66637 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:17279 rec.arts.animation:18970 rec.arts.movies:160771 rec.arts.tv:104678 rec.arts.sf.tv:22795 rec.toys.misc:575                                 VOTE RESULT                Unmoderated group rec.arts.comics.other-media  Voting closed on 22 February 1994 at 23:59:59 GMT.  The results are:  Yes votes:  132 No votes:    52  There were two abstentions.  This margin is insufficient for newgroup creation; there needed to be 100 more YES than NO votes (and two-thirds of the votes needed to be YES).  There will now be a five-day period during which  corrections to the vote count may be made.  Barring sufficient corrections to change the result, the group will not be created, and the proposal to create rec.arts.comics.other-media may not be  formally discussed again for six months.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.    Vote-taker: 		Mark James <[email protected]> Group proponent: 	Greg Morrow <[email protected]>  Newsgroups line: rec.arts.comics.other-media	Comic book spinoffs in other media.   CHARTER (as printed in the Call for Votes) -------  rec.arts.comics.other-media is an unmoderated newsgroup for posts about characters created in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including animated and live-action TV and movies, radio, prose, music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing comic book characters is off-charter.   Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line KEYWORDS will be heavily encouraged.   RATIONALE:  This group will bring together a well defined, conceptually unified set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for isolating the topics in their own newsgroup.    VOTE ACKNOWLEDGMENT -------------------  These lists are sorted in alphabetical order by login name, as taken >from the "From:" line.  Note that certain UUCP addresses are mangled  somewhat in order to sort nicely.   YES votes were received from the following people:  [email protected] (Adam Huby)  [email protected] (Rick Jones) [email protected] (Per Abrahamsen) [email protected]  [email protected] (A.M. Wilton) [email protected] ([email protected])  [email protected] (Adam K. Rixey) [email protected] (Joe Arendt) [email protected] (Jim Ault) [email protected]  [email protected] (Joshua Adam Hart) [email protected] (George Mathew)  [email protected] (Iain A. Bertram) [email protected] (Bart Beaty. GPC. McGill) [email protected]  [email protected] (Niels Olof Bouvin) [email protected] (Steve Brasen) [email protected] (Michael Bowman) [email protected] (Julian C. (aka Constantine)) [email protected] (Chris M. Cavers) [email protected]  [email protected] (Philippe Crocy)  [email protected] (Alison A. Barnes) [email protected] (The Senile Scrutinizer)  [email protected] (CHARLIE WENTLING) [email protected] (MARTIN) [email protected] (Bertil Jonell) [email protected] (Darren Wacky&Moist Glass) [email protected] (Duranee Dodson) [email protected]  [email protected] (Dan Lorey)  [email protected] (Don Marks)  [email protected] (Don Woods)  [email protected] (Doug Shaw) [email protected]  [email protected] (Dave Van Domelen) [email protected]  [email protected] (mikael k edmonds)  [email protected] (Eric Akawie) [email protected] (Gayle Gamble)  [email protected] (EuGene epetai-Tramaglino)  [email protected] (David Goldfarb) [email protected] (Gregor Herrmann)  [email protected] (Gabriel G Tsui)  [email protected] (gabriel v hoyos)  [email protected] (William Hahn)  [email protected] (Ian David Bremner)  [email protected] (Jan Helge Hordnes)  [email protected] (James Stone)  [email protected] (Jim Perreault) [email protected] (Jarno Kokko) [email protected] (Johann E. Beda) [email protected] (Jeremy C. York) [email protected] (Joel Furr) [email protected] (Jonathan Lupa) [email protected]  [email protected] (JON ARVID LOVSTAD)  [email protected] (James Drew)  [email protected] (Jeffrey C Spencer)  [email protected] (John Locke)  [email protected] (Keith Counsell)  [email protected] (Kate the Short) [email protected]  [email protected] (Sheryl Knowles)  [email protected] (kpfong) [email protected] (Mastermind)  [email protected] (Mark Kummerer)  [email protected]  [email protected] (John P. LaRocque) [email protected] (Lauri Lehtinen)  [email protected] (Lee Whiteside) [email protected] (Born Under A Bad Glenn) [email protected] (Elisabeth Anne Riba)  [email protected] (Laurie Gerholz)  [email protected] (Lonadar the Wanderer)  [email protected] (Larry W. Virden)  [email protected]  [email protected] (shawn marier)  [email protected] (Mark A Mcconnell)  [email protected]  [email protected] (Michael G. McKellar) [email protected] (michael kelly)  [email protected] (Matthew Maxwell)  [email protected] (Greg Morrow) [email protected] (Mike 'Ergh' Escutia) [email protected]  [email protected] (Martin Schroeder)  [email protected] (Mike Suzio)  [email protected] (un Coeur en Hiver)  [email protected]  [email protected] (Nick Gaut)  [email protected] (Nuala Fahey) [email protected] (Peter Sullivan)  [email protected] (Peter Wong) [email protected] (Paul Norris)  [email protected] (Paul O'Brien) [email protected] (P Atcliffe)  [email protected]  [email protected] (Reid Fleming) [email protected] (Richard H. Miller)  RM6608%[email protected] (Viper, no not the car!) [email protected] (Arnold Dobson) [email protected] (Rod Shelton) [email protected]  [email protected]  [email protected] (RECKLESS AS USUAL) [email protected] (SALVADOR DALI'S MOUSTACHE) [email protected] (Samuel Edward Greenfield) [email protected] (Sten Drescher)  [email protected] (Steven Miale) [email protected] (Dave Jeitner) [email protected] (Jacob Sparre Andersen) [email protected] (Greg Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life Spira)  [email protected] (Subrata Sircar)  [email protected] (Stu Labovitz)  [email protected]  [email protected] (Thomas Bromley)  [email protected] (Robert Mc Daniel)  [email protected] (Terence Lo)  [email protected]  [email protected] (Timothy W. Lynch)  [email protected] (Thomas Reid Scudder)  [email protected] (Don't blame me--I voted for Bush) [email protected] (Peter John Williams) [email protected] (Gustav Rossner)  [email protected] (Vernon H Harmon) [email protected] (D. W. James)  [email protected] (Scott von Berg)  [email protected] (Steve Wells) [email protected] (Christopher M. Conway)  [email protected] (Jason Martin (0004 ))  [email protected] (Dave Shariff Yadallee)    NO votes were received from the following people:  [email protected] (David Pardoe)  [email protected] (Jacob Huebert)  [email protected] (JESUS EUGENIO SANCHEZ PENA) [email protected]  [email protected]  [email protected] (arthur blair)  [email protected] (Burt N Holzman) [email protected] (Allen Halsell)  [email protected] (C. Douglas Baker) [email protected] (Craig Garnett) [email protected] (Christian L Claiborn) [email protected] (Ernest A. Cline) [email protected]  [email protected] (Chris Payne) [email protected] (David Cuthbert)  [email protected] (Johanna Draper)  [email protected]  [email protected] (David R. Henry) [email protected] (Deepak V. Ramani) [email protected] (Bertrand Petit)  [email protected] (zombie)  [email protected] (Sean P. Ryan) [email protected]  [email protected] (John Holbrook (PAD)) [email protected] (Jay Laefer) [email protected] (Scowling Jim Cowling)  [email protected] (Jon Drukman) [email protected] (Joshua Michael Wolf) [email protected] (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim)) [email protected] (The Spider) [email protected] (John R. MacWilliamson)  [email protected] (Julian Macassey)  [email protected] (Michael K Leung) [email protected]  [email protected] (Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS) [email protected] ((Thorongil) Paul Adams) [email protected] (Paul Martin Barry)  [email protected] (R.J.JOHNSTON) [email protected] (Edward Piou) [email protected] (Sendhil Revuluri) [email protected] (Ronald Kinion)  [email protected] (Rose Marie Delckum) [email protected] (Bill Roper)  [email protected] (Russ Allbery) [email protected] (cruz ramirez daniel) [email protected] (Marc Moorcroft) [email protected]  [email protected] (Dwight Brown) [email protected] (Michael Parks Swaim) [email protected] (Mark A. Thompson)  [email protected] (Ward F. Bush) [email protected] (William B. May)  ABSTENTIONS were received from the following people:  [email protected] (Francis A Uy) [email protected]  --  Mark James  <[email protected]>    *** Opinions, errors etc are mine. *** Dialogic Corporation, 300 Littleton Road    |  Parsippany NJ 07054, U.S.A.                 | "Duluth, jocko!  You can +1 201 334 1268 ext 438  Fax +1 201 334 1257|  get Tierra del Fuego!"   From [email protected] Mon Aug 21 00:29:18 2000 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Kate the Short) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.other-media,rec.arts.comics.info Subject: RFD: rec.arts.comics.other-media (REMOVE) Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: rec.arts.comics.other-media Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:27:24 GMT Lines: 148 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11574 news.groups:363233 rec.arts.comics.misc:353356 rec.arts.comics.other-media:16707 rec.arts.comics.info:8315                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)  REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media (renamed to rec.arts.comics.misc)  This is an official Request For Discussion (RFD) for the removal of the newsgroup rec.arts.comics.other-media.  This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural details are below.  RATIONALE: rec.arts.comics.other-media  The original rationale for creating rec.arts.comics.other-media stated:     "This group will bring together a well-defined, conceptually unified    set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are    often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high    signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for    isolating the topics in their own newsgroup."  rec.arts.comics.other-media was primarily designed to remove long, discussion-light threads such as X-men Movie casting call threads, superhero song threads, and Lois & Clark TV show discussion out of the rest of the rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups.  In practice, this has not been the case.  Most of the topics mentioned above have little to do with each other, and the artificial nature of the topic distinction means that discussion is somewhat limited.  Rather than creating a "conceptually unified" set of posts, the newsgroup only collects a chaotic, widely-scattered set of posts on varied topics.  In general, new readers of the rac.* newsgroups have not realized that they're supposed to post discussion of the above topics to rac.other-media instead of the group where the above are "obviously" on topic.  Therefore, most discussion of the X-Men movie and cartoon has still been posted to rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks, not to rac.other-media.  Secondly, those that do know of the existence of the group often protest any requests to move discussion there, claiming (truthfully) that most people who answer questions about differences in movie and comics continuity don't even *read* the rac.other-media newsgroup.  Instead of unifying discussion, the creation of the group has generally stifled it.  The following numbers are meant to be a general illustration of the proportions of traffic between some of the rec.arts.comics.* groups:  On August 15, 2000, a list of headers in the comics-related newsgroups was downloaded from news.enteract.com.  While the group rac.other-media had 345 posts in it for the period of time between July 25 and August 15, this was mostly due to the explosion of discussion after the release of the X-Men movie.  If one counts just those posts made between August 12-14, the count drops to 23 posts, or a mere 7-8 posts per day.  A Deja search for the week of June 21-28 lists 41 posts, with some of those crossposted to other rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups-- again, a count of 6-7 posts per day.  At the same time, a count of posts in rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe between July 25 and August 15 on news.enteract.com yielded 3656 posts, of which 133 were in a thread titled "netcop debacle - why it matters", discussing the failure of rac.other-media.  Clearly, denizens of the rac.* hierarchy are passionate about their charters and their discussions.  It was due to netcopping flamewars, and the philosophy that *all* or *none* of the groups should follow rac.other-media's charter, that the Superman newsgroup was named "rec.arts.SF.superman" instead of "rec.arts.COMICS.superman".  Two things prevent an easy solution to the problem.  First, there is no official charter-changing process currently in place in the Big 8 hierarchy of newsgroups, so those newsgroups that wanted to loosen or tighten their other-media stance cannot "officially" do so.  Unofficial polls could be seen as "non-binding", and lead to further netcopping debates.  Second, many of those who are helpfully redirecting movie or TV traffic to rac.other-media from the main groups *agree* that the topics could or should be allowed throughout the rec.arts.comics.* hierarchy, but have decided that since an official RFD and vote were held to create rac.other-media, an official vote is needed to allow it back onto the core groups.  At this point, the X-men movie has been made, Lois & Clark is long- cancelled, and the movie and television threads aren't seen as annoying by most of rac.* any longer.  The best solution, therefore, is to officially vote to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media, and redirect the general discussion of comics in other media to rec.arts.comics.misc and the specific discussions (X-Men movie, Lois & Clark tv series, and the like) to the groups set aside to discuss those characters in the comics.  CHARTER:  [This is the original charter, copied from "2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics  reorganization" posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups on  29 Mar 1995;  for the RFD, CFVs, and result postings, please see  ]  rec.arts.comics.other-media          rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created         in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including         animated and live-action television and movies, radio, prose,         music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and         posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in         this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing         comic book characters is specifically excluded from this group.          Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line         keywords will be heavily encouraged.  END CHARTER.  PROCEDURE:  This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups).  This RFD will be posted again should there be any alterations done to it.  If there is a desire to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media after the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV) will be posted by a neutral votetaker. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.  All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.  This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process.  DISTRIBUTION:  This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:   news.groups, news.announce.newgroups, rec.arts.comics.info,  rec.arts.comics.misc, rec.arts.comics.other-media  This RFD will be posted to the following mailing list:   [email protected]  Pointers to the RFD will be posted in the following newsgroups:   alt.comics.batman, alt.animation.batman, alt.tv.superman-adventures,  rec.arts.comics.alternative, rec.arts.comics.dc.lsh,  rec.arts.comics.dc.universe, rec.arts.comics.dc.vertigo,  rec.arts.comics.elfquest, rec.arts.comics.european,  rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe, rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks,  rec.arts.comics.strips, rec.arts.sf.superman   Proponent: Kate the Short <[email protected]> Proponent: Michael Alan Chary <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Sun Sep 24 20:43:51 2000 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.other-media,rec.arts.comics.info Subject: CFV: rec.arts.comics.other-media (REMOVE) Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 17 Oct 2000 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: rec.arts.comics.other-media Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 03:42:39 GMT Lines: 219 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11586 news.groups:365734 rec.arts.comics.misc:357548 rec.arts.comics.other-media:17060 rec.arts.comics.info:8355                       FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)  REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media (renamed to rec.arts.comics.misc)  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups line:  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Oct 2000.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Kate the Short <[email protected]> Proponent: Michael Alan Chary <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: rec.arts.comics.other-media  The original rationale for creating rec.arts.comics.other-media stated:     "This group will bring together a well-defined, conceptually unified    set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are    often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high    signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for    isolating the topics in their own newsgroup."  rec.arts.comics.other-media was primarily designed to remove long, discussion-light threads such as X-men Movie casting call threads, superhero song threads, and Lois & Clark TV show discussion out of the rest of the rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups.  In practice, this has not been the case.  Most of the topics mentioned above have little to do with each other, and the artificial nature of the topic distinction means that discussion is somewhat limited.  Rather than creating a "conceptually unified" set of posts, the newsgroup only collects a chaotic, widely-scattered set of posts on varied topics.  In general, new readers of the rac.* newsgroups have not realized that they're supposed to post discussion of the above topics to rac.other-media instead of the group where the above are "obviously" on topic.  Therefore, most discussion of the X-Men movie and cartoon has still been posted to rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks, not to rac.other-media.  Secondly, those that do know of the existence of the group often protest any requests to move discussion there, claiming (truthfully) that most people who answer questions about differences in movie and comics continuity don't even *read* the rac.other-media newsgroup.  Instead of unifying discussion, the creation of the group has generally stifled it.  The following numbers are meant to be a general illustration of the proportions of traffic between some of the rec.arts.comics.* groups:  On August 15, 2000, a list of headers in the comics-related newsgroups was downloaded from news.enteract.com.  While the group rac.other-media had 345 posts in it for the period of time between July 25 and August 15, this was mostly due to the explosion of discussion after the release of the X-Men movie.  If one counts just those posts made between August 12-14, the count drops to 23 posts, or a mere 7-8 posts per day.  A Deja search for the week of June 21-28 lists 41 posts, with some of those crossposted to other rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups-- again, a count of 6-7 posts per day.  At the same time, a count of posts in rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe between July 25 and August 15 on news.enteract.com yielded 3656 posts, of which 133 were in a thread titled "netcop debacle - why it matters", discussing the failure of rac.other-media.  Clearly, denizens of the rac.* hierarchy are passionate about their charters and their discussions.  It was due to netcopping flamewars, and the philosophy that *all* or *none* of the groups should follow rac.other-media's charter, that the Superman newsgroup was named "rec.arts.SF.superman" instead of "rec.arts.COMICS.superman".  Two things prevent an easy solution to the problem.  First, there is no official charter-changing process currently in place in the Big 8 hierarchy of newsgroups, so those newsgroups that wanted to loosen or tighten their other-media stance cannot "officially" do so.  Unofficial polls could be seen as "non-binding", and lead to further netcopping debates.  Second, many of those who are helpfully redirecting movie or TV traffic to rac.other-media from the main groups *agree* that the topics could or should be allowed throughout the rec.arts.comics.* hierarchy, but have decided that since an official RFD and vote were held to create rac.other-media, an official vote is needed to allow it back onto the core groups.  At this point, the X-men movie has been made, Lois & Clark is long- cancelled, and the movie and television threads aren't seen as annoying by most of rac.* any longer.  The best solution, therefore, is to officially vote to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media, and redirect the general discussion of comics in other media to rec.arts.comics.misc and the specific discussions (X-Men movie, Lois & Clark tv series, and the like) to the groups set aside to discuss those characters in the comics.  CHARTER: rec.arts.comics.other-media  [This is the original charter, copied from "2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics  reorganization" posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups on  29 Mar 1995;  for the RFD, CFVs, and result postings, please see  ]  rec.arts.comics.other-media          rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created         in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including         animated and live-action television and movies, radio, prose,         music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and         posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in         this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing         comic book characters is specifically excluded from this group.          Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line         keywords will be heavily encouraged.  END CHARTER.  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of this CFV is considered vote fraud.  This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real name or an established Usenet handle.  At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged" address he cannot decipher immediately.  Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: rec.arts.comics.other-media | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media  ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============  DISTRIBUTION:  Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:  alt.animation.batman alt.comics.batman alt.tv.superman-adventures rec.arts.comics.alternative rec.arts.comics.dc.lsh rec.arts.comics.dc.universe rec.arts.comics.dc.vertigo rec.arts.comics.elfquest rec.arts.comics.european rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks rec.arts.comics.strips rec.arts.sf.superman  and the following mailing list:  Legion of Super-Heroes List (lsh-l) Submission address: [email protected] Subscription address: [email protected] (subscribe lsh-l)  This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Wed Oct  4 17:43:27 2000 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.other-media,rec.arts.comics.info Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics.other-media (REMOVE) Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Supersedes: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 17 Oct 2000 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: rec.arts.comics.other-media Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 00:31:56 GMT Lines: 223 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11592 news.groups:366629 rec.arts.comics.misc:358265 rec.arts.comics.other-media:17095 rec.arts.comics.info:8363                        LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)  REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media (renamed to rec.arts.comics.misc)  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups line:  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Oct 2000.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Kate the Short <[email protected]> Proponent: Michael Alan Chary <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: rec.arts.comics.other-media  The original rationale for creating rec.arts.comics.other-media stated:     "This group will bring together a well-defined, conceptually unified    set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are    often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high    signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for    isolating the topics in their own newsgroup."  rec.arts.comics.other-media was primarily designed to remove long, discussion-light threads such as X-men Movie casting call threads, superhero song threads, and Lois & Clark TV show discussion out of the rest of the rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups.  In practice, this has not been the case.  Most of the topics mentioned above have little to do with each other, and the artificial nature of the topic distinction means that discussion is somewhat limited.  Rather than creating a "conceptually unified" set of posts, the newsgroup only collects a chaotic, widely-scattered set of posts on varied topics.  In general, new readers of the rac.* newsgroups have not realized that they're supposed to post discussion of the above topics to rac.other-media instead of the group where the above are "obviously" on topic.  Therefore, most discussion of the X-Men movie and cartoon has still been posted to rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks, not to rac.other-media.  Secondly, those that do know of the existence of the group often protest any requests to move discussion there, claiming (truthfully) that most people who answer questions about differences in movie and comics continuity don't even *read* the rac.other-media newsgroup.  Instead of unifying discussion, the creation of the group has generally stifled it.  The following numbers are meant to be a general illustration of the proportions of traffic between some of the rec.arts.comics.* groups:  On August 15, 2000, a list of headers in the comics-related newsgroups was downloaded from news.enteract.com.  While the group rac.other-media had 345 posts in it for the period of time between July 25 and August 15, this was mostly due to the explosion of discussion after the release of the X-Men movie.  If one counts just those posts made between August 12-14, the count drops to 23 posts, or a mere 7-8 posts per day.  A Deja search for the week of June 21-28 lists 41 posts, with some of those crossposted to other rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups-- again, a count of 6-7 posts per day.  At the same time, a count of posts in rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe between July 25 and August 15 on news.enteract.com yielded 3656 posts, of which 133 were in a thread titled "netcop debacle - why it matters", discussing the failure of rac.other-media.  Clearly, denizens of the rac.* hierarchy are passionate about their charters and their discussions.  It was due to netcopping flamewars, and the philosophy that *all* or *none* of the groups should follow rac.other-media's charter, that the Superman newsgroup was named "rec.arts.SF.superman" instead of "rec.arts.COMICS.superman".  Two things prevent an easy solution to the problem.  First, there is no official charter-changing process currently in place in the Big 8 hierarchy of newsgroups, so those newsgroups that wanted to loosen or tighten their other-media stance cannot "officially" do so.  Unofficial polls could be seen as "non-binding", and lead to further netcopping debates.  Second, many of those who are helpfully redirecting movie or TV traffic to rac.other-media from the main groups *agree* that the topics could or should be allowed throughout the rec.arts.comics.* hierarchy, but have decided that since an official RFD and vote were held to create rac.other-media, an official vote is needed to allow it back onto the core groups.  At this point, the X-men movie has been made, Lois & Clark is long- cancelled, and the movie and television threads aren't seen as annoying by most of rac.* any longer.  The best solution, therefore, is to officially vote to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media, and redirect the general discussion of comics in other media to rec.arts.comics.misc and the specific discussions (X-Men movie, Lois & Clark tv series, and the like) to the groups set aside to discuss those characters in the comics.  CHARTER: rec.arts.comics.other-media  [This is the original charter, copied from "2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics  reorganization" posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups on  29 Mar 1995;  for the RFD, CFVs, and result postings, please see  ]  rec.arts.comics.other-media          rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created         in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including         animated and live-action television and movies, radio, prose,         music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and         posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in         this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing         comic book characters is specifically excluded from this group.          Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line         keywords will be heavily encouraged.  END CHARTER.  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of this CFV is considered vote fraud.  This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real name or an established Usenet handle.  At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged" address he cannot decipher immediately.  Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: rec.arts.comics.other-media | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media  ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============  DISTRIBUTION:  Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:  alt.animation.batman alt.comics.batman alt.tv.superman-adventures rec.arts.comics.alternative rec.arts.comics.dc.lsh rec.arts.comics.dc.universe rec.arts.comics.dc.vertigo rec.arts.comics.elfquest rec.arts.comics.european rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks rec.arts.comics.strips rec.arts.sf.superman  and the following mailing list:  Legion of Super-Heroes List (lsh-l) Submission address: [email protected] Subscription address: [email protected] (subscribe lsh-l)  rec.arts.comics.other-media (REMOVE) Bounce List - Please contact me about your vote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [email protected]                        Brandon Blatcher  This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Sun Oct 22 22:13:18 2000 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.other-media,rec.arts.comics.info Subject: RESULT: rec.arts.comics.other-media fails 139:40 Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Supersedes: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: rec.arts.comics.other-media Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 05:06:22 GMT Lines: 345 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11601 news.groups:367756 rec.arts.comics.misc:361027 rec.arts.comics.other-media:17192 rec.arts.comics.info:8386                                  RESULT REMOVE rec.arts.comics.other-media (renamed to rec.arts.comics.misc) fails 139:40  There were 139 YES votes and 40 NO votes, for a total of 179 valid votes.  There were 7 abstentions and 7 invalid ballots.  For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes.  There must also be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.  A five day discussion period follows this announcement.  Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the group may not be voted on again for six months.  Newsgroups line:  The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Oct 2000.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Kate the Short <[email protected]> Proponent: Michael Alan Chary <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: rec.arts.comics.other-media  The original rationale for creating rec.arts.comics.other-media stated:     "This group will bring together a well-defined, conceptually unified    set of posts from many widely-scattered groups, where the topics are    often on the margin of the groups' charters.  These topics are high    signal for some readers and high noise for others, good criteria for    isolating the topics in their own newsgroup."  rec.arts.comics.other-media was primarily designed to remove long, discussion-light threads such as X-men Movie casting call threads, superhero song threads, and Lois & Clark TV show discussion out of the rest of the rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups.  In practice, this has not been the case.  Most of the topics mentioned above have little to do with each other, and the artificial nature of the topic distinction means that discussion is somewhat limited.  Rather than creating a "conceptually unified" set of posts, the newsgroup only collects a chaotic, widely-scattered set of posts on varied topics.  In general, new readers of the rac.* newsgroups have not realized that they're supposed to post discussion of the above topics to rac.other-media instead of the group where the above are "obviously" on topic.  Therefore, most discussion of the X-Men movie and cartoon has still been posted to rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks, not to rac.other-media.  Secondly, those that do know of the existence of the group often protest any requests to move discussion there, claiming (truthfully) that most people who answer questions about differences in movie and comics continuity don't even *read* the rac.other-media newsgroup.  Instead of unifying discussion, the creation of the group has generally stifled it.  The following numbers are meant to be a general illustration of the proportions of traffic between some of the rec.arts.comics.* groups:  On August 15, 2000, a list of headers in the comics-related newsgroups was downloaded from news.enteract.com.  While the group rac.other-media had 345 posts in it for the period of time between July 25 and August 15, this was mostly due to the explosion of discussion after the release of the X-Men movie.  If one counts just those posts made between August 12-14, the count drops to 23 posts, or a mere 7-8 posts per day.  A Deja search for the week of June 21-28 lists 41 posts, with some of those crossposted to other rec.arts.comics.* newsgroups-- again, a count of 6-7 posts per day.  At the same time, a count of posts in rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe between July 25 and August 15 on news.enteract.com yielded 3656 posts, of which 133 were in a thread titled "netcop debacle - why it matters", discussing the failure of rac.other-media.  Clearly, denizens of the rac.* hierarchy are passionate about their charters and their discussions.  It was due to netcopping flamewars, and the philosophy that *all* or *none* of the groups should follow rac.other-media's charter, that the Superman newsgroup was named "rec.arts.SF.superman" instead of "rec.arts.COMICS.superman".  Two things prevent an easy solution to the problem.  First, there is no official charter-changing process currently in place in the Big 8 hierarchy of newsgroups, so those newsgroups that wanted to loosen or tighten their other-media stance cannot "officially" do so.  Unofficial polls could be seen as "non-binding", and lead to further netcopping debates.  Second, many of those who are helpfully redirecting movie or TV traffic to rac.other-media from the main groups *agree* that the topics could or should be allowed throughout the rec.arts.comics.* hierarchy, but have decided that since an official RFD and vote were held to create rac.other-media, an official vote is needed to allow it back onto the core groups.  At this point, the X-men movie has been made, Lois & Clark is long- cancelled, and the movie and television threads aren't seen as annoying by most of rac.* any longer.  The best solution, therefore, is to officially vote to remove rec.arts.comics.other-media, and redirect the general discussion of comics in other media to rec.arts.comics.misc and the specific discussions (X-Men movie, Lois & Clark tv series, and the like) to the groups set aside to discuss those characters in the comics.  CHARTER: rec.arts.comics.other-media  [This is the original charter, copied from "2nd CFV: rec.arts.comics  reorganization" posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups on  29 Mar 1995;  for the RFD, CFVs, and result postings, please see  ]  rec.arts.comics.other-media          rec.arts.comics.other-media is for posts about characters created         in comics as portrayed in media other than comics, including         animated and live-action television and movies, radio, prose,         music, and toys and other merchandising.  "Casting calls" and         posts comparing the comic and non-comic versions also belong in         this group.  Superhero-inspired material *not* based on existing         comic book characters is specifically excluded from this group.          Owing to the variety of topics included, the use of Subject: line         keywords will be heavily encouraged.  END CHARTER.    rec.arts.comics.other-media Final Voter list  NOTE:  This is not [to be used as] a mailing list.  The email addresses are posted only to help verify the interest poll.  Thank you.  Voted YES ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ woof [at] greatcircle.net.au                                      James Carman garyjohnson [at] uq.net.au                                        Gary Johnson brian [at] gweep.bc.ca                                           Brian Edmonds Jim.Cowling [at] leg.bc.ca                                         Jim Cowling David.Tallan [at] mbs.gov.on.ca                                   David Tallan travis [at] SEDSystems.ca                                   Shane H. W. Travis Teddykgb [at] sympatico.ca                                          Max Murray david.roy [at] ubc.ca                                                David Roy BradBB [at] aol.com                                                Brad Bethke dwaynem595 [at] aol.com                                        Dwayne McDuffie Jccubby [at] aol.com                                              Jim Caldwell JOlson2623 [at] aol.com                                              Jim Olson KalElFan [at] aol.com                                    Anthony Michael Walsh matthewgp [at] aol.com                                          Matthew Pehler querlb5 [at] aol.com                                             Jason Fliegel Wolf031877 [at] aol.com                                            James Venes 20000909 [at] bbsdaze.com                                        Joshua Warren stainles [at] bga.com                                             Dwight Brown a_blip [at] bigfoot.com                                         Pal Are Nordal TVerBeek [at] bigfoot.com                                         Todd VerBeek MMRosa [at] bigpond.com                                            Michal Rosa stef [at] cat-and-dragon.com                                       Stef Maruch chuck [at] comiclist.com                                     Charles S. LePage johanna [at] comicsworthreading.com                     Johanna Draper Carlson 72027.3605 [at] compuserve.com                                      Bob Bailin ShutUpRobEBoy [at] cs.com                                           Rob Jensen eridani [at] databasix.com                                             Belinda andrewj [at] echonyc.com                                       Andrew Johnston cavalier [at] engineer.com                                          Rob Lorenz aardy [at] enteract.com                                      Aardy R. DeVarque tjmc [at] enteract.com                                                    tjmc jinx13 [at] erols.com                                                     JinX mcclenon [at] erols.com                                           Bob McClenon smlucas [at] famvid.com                                           Steven Lucas xfan [at] fandom.com                                           Eric J. Moreels david [at] farrar.com                                             David Farrar jgraham [at] fullerlandau.com                                     Jamie Graham luke [at] ga2so.com                                               Luke Gattuso prs [at] gol.com                                              Peter Stephenson ahsdreamwalker [at] home.com                                      Daniel Sauve andrew829 [at] home.com                                          Andrew Lannen ankenbauer [at] home.com                                  Joseph M. Ankenbauer casimiri8359 [at] home.com               Phil Casimiri (on behalf of F/B #914) zombie67 [at] home.com                                               Erik Veit brak_brak [at] hotmail.com                                        Anne Ritchie bredon [at] hotmail.com                                       Robert M. Camisa twisting [at] hotmail.com                                        Rich Johnston don [at] iCynic.com                                                  Don Woods barkerjr [at] iFreedom.com                                            BarkerJr catwoman [at] iglou.com                                            Cath Wolffe centurycity [at] iname.com                                       Peter Likidis dalek [at] io.com                                              David J. Snyder christian [at] JASDigital.com                                  christian smith wiz [at] lart.com                                                          Wiz tjarks [at] lucent.com                                              Tim Tjarks ravenskana [at] mac.com                                         Jon Scott Hall Troy [at] McNemar.com                                          T. Troy McNemar erica [at] mindspring.com                                          Erica Sadun ernestcline [at] mindspring.com                                   Ernest Cline klemons [at] mindspring.com                                         Ken Lemons trainman1 [at] mindspring.com                                    Jim Ellwanger djperry [at] my-deja.com                                             Dan Perry fajuto [at] my-deja.com                                       Francisco Fajuto fran_keeling [at] my-deja.com                                  Frances Keeling marc [at] panel1.com                                               Marc Fleury mra [at] pobox.com                                                 Mark Atwood bhance [at] primenet.com                                           Brian Hance sward [at] primenet.com                                        Sidne Gail Ward ShadZ [at] rocketmail.com                                          Shad Z Daly xyzzy [at] kc.rr.com                                             Edward Framls alexis [at] twcny.rr.com                                                Alexis bill [at] scconsult.com                                              Bill Cole Joeno [at] sevspace.com                                       Jeroen te Strake jamesc [at] bassclar.eng.sun.com                                James Langdell ry [at] teleport.com                                                Ryan Gavin nsmith [at] hou.asp.ti.com                                          Neal Smith joele [at] tminet.com                                             Joel Ehrlich todd [at] toddkogutt.com                                           Todd Kogutt kjh [at] tsoft.com                                                 Karl Hiller kmaroney [at] ungames.com                                     Kevin J. Maroney roper [at] xnet.com                                                 Bill Roper comichistory [at] yahoo.com                                      Jamie Coville racmx [at] yahoo.com                                            Kate the Short naddy [at] mips.inka.de                                   Christian Weisgerber bouvin [at] daimi.au.dk                                      Niels Olof Bouvin peteralf [at] fabel.dk                                         Peter Alfredsen William_Hahn [at] baylor.edu                                  William Hahn
 fungus [at] OCF.Berkeley.EDU                                         Hank Fung kts [at] socrates.Berkeley.EDU                                   Katie Schwarz tlynch [at] alumni.caltech.edu                                       Tim Lynch jgilmo72 [at] calvin.edu                                         James Gilmore dvr3 [at] cornell.edu                                            Deepak Ramani dsr [at] mail.lns.cornell.edu                                        Dan Riley dubach [at] dcepea.harvard.edu                                     Joev Dubach mchary [at] steel2.ucs.indiana.edu                               Michael Chary jharvey [at] iupui.edu                                            James Harvey amnewt01 [at] louisville.edu                                      Aaron Newton w-loo [at] northwestern.edu                                        William Loo em11 [at] nyu.edu                                                   Ed Mathews jjt184 [at] psu.edu                                              Jeremy Turner rra [at] stanford.edu                                             Russ Allbery bcr19374 [at] pegasus.cc.ucf.edu                                Brian Robinson Phantom-Stranger [at] mail.utexas.edu                               Dan Nguyen rufinus [at] mbe.ece.wisc.edu                                        J Rufinus Paul-Hahn [at] library.wustl.edu                           Paul Shin-Hong Hahn skaps24 [at] teleline.es                                      Rosendo Manrique lsarakon [at] cc.hut.fi                                        Liisa Sarakontu blix [at] cybercable.fr                                         JEREMY MANESSE carl.henderson [at] airmail.net                                 Carl Henderson b.menon [at] worldnet.att.net                                       Bala Menon lighton [at] monet.bestweb.net                                   Kevin Lighton bard [at] digital-marketplace.net                                         Bard ellis [at] ftel.net                                                 Rick Ellis alexis.manning [at] gte.net                                     Alexis Manning lkseitz [at] mail.hiwaay.net                                      Lee K. Seitz emdoub [at] hockey.net                          Midnight Writer, aka Dan Brady hwesson [at] ipa.net                                             Hayley Wesson tswlmw [at] mediaone.net                                    Tim & Lisa Webster bmart [at] optonline.net                                            Bob Martin arromdee [at] rahul.net                                           Ken Arromdee bzednick [at] sapling.net                                        Brian Zednick lleshin [at] spamcop.net                                            Len Leshin bob149 [at] uswest.net                                           bob blanchard hboneflash [at] voyager.net                                   Jason Cunningham BK-421 [at] webtv.net                                             Brian Kovich Renzo.boomkamp [at] gelrevision.nl                              Renzo Boomkamp r.vanette [at] pink.nl                                     Robert-Jan van Ette jsyers [at] acm.org                                                 John Syers denebeim [at] deepthot.org                                        Jay Denebeim baloo [at] ursine.dyndns.org                                     Baloo Ursidae joeshaw [at] oh.krunk.org                                             Joe Shaw dave [at] technopagan.org                                       David E. Smith darkmasters [at] mail.telepac.pt                                   Paulo Costa jwm1 [at] st-andrews.ac.uk                                          James Moar tr3 [at] ukc.ac.uk                                          Tim Roll-Pickering paul [at] esoterica.demon.co.uk                                   Paul O'Brien nick [at] pheasnt.demon.co.uk                                        Nick Eden al [at] kuhl-graham.fsnet.co.uk                                    Alan Graham chriseb [at] ukshells.co.uk                                     Chris Ebenezer  Voted NO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ablack01 [at] optushome.com.au                                    Andrew Black cgoodin [at] sfu.ca                                                Chuk Goodin knott [at] cs.ubc.ca                                                Dave Knott eds7466 [at] UMoncton.CA                                          Danny Sichel sbarrie [at] julian.uwo.ca                                     Scott B. Barrie vartox [at] aol.com                                                Jesse Groth kimdv [at] best.com                                               Kim DeVaughn sbennie [at] dowco.com bbailie [at] erols.com                                         Brian H. Bailie dogwelder [at] erols.com                                             Bobby Yee sk8maven [at] home.com                                           Bettina Helms jwalker_63 [at] hotmail.com                                         Jim Walker phippsmartin [at] hotmail.com                                    Martin Phipps zimnyzenon [at] hotmail.com                                    Zenobiusz Zimny swmoore [at] hypercon.com                                          Steve Moore gprrspw [at] mindspring.com                                          G.P. Ryan wgarmil [at] world.std.com                                        Wayne Garmil pan [at] syix.com                                                          Pan pimentel [at] ultranet.com                                       John Pimentel korpela [at] ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu                               Eric Korpela bfagan [at] lib.siu.edu                                         Bryan D. Fagan jamesony [at] usc.edu                                    Jameson Stalanthas Yu samerc [at] mash.yok.utu.fi                                        Samy Merchi llehmann [at] club-internet.fr                                 Laurent Lehmann david [at] iolfree.ie                                            David O'Brien ginnytak [at] dd.catv.ne.jp                                        T.  Hiraoka syoung [at] bignet.net                                       Scott Baker-Young w_stone [at] ev1.net                                                Walt Stone pheersum [at] netwizards.net                                          Pheersum wakelyn [at] pinn.net                                            N. T. Wakelyn yourheartout [at] starpower.net       Jeff Troutman

| Insert YES, NO, = morpy [at] usa.net                                                 David Welsh gsch [at] uswest.net                                             Greg Schienke faulds [at] es.co.nz                                      Stuart Brodie Faulds lvirden [at] cas.org stend [at] sten.org                                            Sten M Drescher jolun [at] algonet.se                                          Johan Lundstrom the.allens [at] cableinet.co.uk                                    Terry Allen adam.huby [at] ffei.co.uk                                            Adam Huby jon [at] thomson2273.freeserve.co.uk                               Jon Thomson  Abstained ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ atkokmen [at] aol.com                                            Ali T. Kokmen tyg [at] panix.com                                                Tom Galloway francis_uy [at] yahoo.com                                           Francis Uy goldfarb [at] OCF.Berkeley.EDU                                  David Goldfarb seyman [at] wanadoo.fr                                         Emmanuel Seyman carlf [at] dm.net                                                    Carl Fink mmontcha [at] OregonVOS.net                                 Matthew Montchalin  Invalid votes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ jbh [at] dim.goawayspam.com                                       Joe Helfrich     ! Undeliverable address: unroutable mail domain slam [at] cc419214-a.twsn1.md.home.com                       Michael Glicksman     ! Undeliverable address: connection timed out sandray [at] in-tch.com                                      Raymond J Down Jr     ! Undeliverable address: User unknown h_shipman [at] ix.netcom.com                                       Hal Shipman     ! Undeliverable address: 550 User unknown flash [at] pobox.com                                            Flash Sheridan     ! Undeliverable address: rahul.net blocking [email protected] nomadic [at] worldnet.hiddenimplants.att.net                  Brandon Blatcher     ! Invalid address: Name service error for domain: Host not found TheMeaneys [at] worldnet.att.net                                   The Meaneys     ! No vote statement in message   --  Neil Crellin, UVV <[email protected]>