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From [email protected] Sat Apr  4 02:52:04 1992 Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1777 news.groups:38221 rec.arts.comics:53608 rec.arts.comics.marketplace:509 rec.arts.books:32299 rec.arts.sf.misc:1056 rec.humor:57112 alt.manga:297 Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.marketplace,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.manga Path: rpi!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Simmons) Subject: RFD:  rec.arts.comics.strips Followup-To: news.groups Sender: [email protected] Nntp-Posting-Host: cs.rpi.edu Organization: Industrial Technology Institute Date: 1 Feb 92 06:08:36 GMT Approved: [email protected] Lines: 96  Several weeks ago I posted a preliminary RFD to these same groups about a new group, rec.arts.comics.strips.  The discussion has been sparse but almost universally positive.  It's not clear if there's enough interest to really get the minimum vote, but neither is it clear that such a proposal is doomed.  One or two respondants suggested alternate names, but seemed to have no strong opinions either way.  Based on this, I'm moving to a formal RFD on establishing the group. My original posting, slightly modified based on suggestions from various folks, follows:  -------------------------------------------------------------------  The creation and steady activity of rec.arts.comics.marketplace as first subgroup in rec.arts.comics has proven the viability of establishing subgroups for r.a.c.  Past discussions of splitting r.a.c have foundered on an inability to divide the group rationally.  70 to 90% of the traffic (by my seat-of- the-pants estimate) is on "mainstream" comics, and there seems to be no good way to divide it.  This RFD is *NOT* proposing any general split of r.a.c.  It proposes to use the creation of r.a.c.m as a model for taking one specific subgroup of comics and create a new group for that specific topic.  Proposed charter:  Rec.arts.comics.strips is for discussion of comic "strips" as opposed to comic books.  The classic form for comic strips is the Funny Pages of American newspapers, but can and should include monthly strips such as those seen in National Lampoon, editorial cartoons, etc.  The group will be unmoderated.  Rationale:  Comic strip readers are a much larger group than comic book fans.  A very successful comic book will sell 100,000 copies per month.  By contrast, popular comic strips are read by millions every day.  Those comic strip readers who are not comic book fans neither read nor contribute to r.a.c; their interests are not served by it.  Why a subgroup rather than a new group?  Comic books and comic strips are closely related.  Some characters are published in both media. With the exception of "Peanuts" and a few other wildly popular strips, most reprint collections are done by comic-book related companies. Strips and books are produced by overlapping sets of writers and artists. Making r.a.c.s a subgroup of r.a.c will help "kick-start" the group by immediately drawing off the comic strip postings from r.a.c, and should provide interesting cross-fertilization between the two.  Also, potential future splits of r.a.c should be kept in mind.  Someday we will have other narrow subgroups of comics, and keeping things in a tree makes more sense than having a number of very similar groups directly under an already crowded rec.arts.  Some counter arguements:  Is there enough existing traffic?  Yes and no.  A simple count of comic strip articles in r.a.c shows no more than two or three per day maximum. By contrast, I'm seeing more and more requests for comic strip discussion in other groups.  The idea has been floated at least twice in the last 30 days by separate individuals in separate newsgroups (outside rec.arts.comics).  One recent poster suggested a group devoted to Peanuts. It seems there's interest there; the problem is finding the people.  Why not a mailing list as proof of interest?  Good question.  There are several comic-book oriented mailing lists, but no strips mailing lists I know of.  I already run one mailing list (non-comics), and am starting two more.  For me, it's out of the question.  In addition, I think the strip reader is a very different individual than the comic book reader.  There does not seem to be the same white-hot fab activity for strips that there is for books.  IMHO, this is a result of the daily fix vs. the monthly (or longer) wait for the book.  In any case, that general lower activity level means no high-intensity person has built and and pushed a mailing list.  At this time I'm especially interested in other groups where the discussion should be carried on, in hopes of finding those potential readers.  Don't send me suggestions, repost this note in those groups and make sure it's cross-posted to r.a.c and news.groups.  This posting is being sent to the following groups:  rec.arts.comics rec.arts.comics.marketplace news.groups rec.arts.books rec.arts.sf.misc rec.humor  In addition, I will drop a copy to the comix mailing list and comics-l. --   "Usenet is not a right."  -- Chip Salzenberg  "Usenet is a right, a left, a jab, and a sharp uppercut to the jaw.  The postman hits!  You have new mail."   -- Ed Vielmetti  From [email protected] Sat Apr  4 03:21:14 1992 Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1888 news.groups:40207 rec.arts.comics:56620 rec.arts.comics.marketplace:787 rec.arts.books:33815 rec.arts.sf.misc:1390 rec.humor:59793 alt.manga:632 Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.marketplace,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.manga Path: rpi!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Simmons) Subject: CFV:  rec.arts.comics.strips Followup-To: poster Sender: [email protected] Nntp-Posting-Host: cs.rpi.edu Organization: Inland Sea Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1992 05:58:52 GMT Approved: [email protected] Lines: 124  Call For Votes: rec.arts.comic.strips  The creation and steady activity of rec.arts.comics.marketplace as first subgroup in rec.arts.comics has proven the viability of establishing subgroups for r.a.c.  Past discussions of splitting r.a.c have foundered on an inability to divide the group rationally.  70 to 90% of the traffic (by my seat-of- the-pants estimate) is on "mainstream" comics, and there seems to be no good way to divide it.  This CFV is *not* for a general split of r.a.c.  It proposes to use the creation of r.a.c.m as a model for taking one specific subgroup of comics and create a new group for that specific topic.  Charter:  Rec.arts.comics.strips is for discussion of comic "strips" as opposed to comic books.  The classic form for comic strips is the Funny Pages of American newspapers, but the group is not limited to discussion of strips of this form.  Other forms such as editorial cartoons, single-panel cartoons such as by Glen Larson or Charles Addams, strips >from less frequent periodicals such as National Lampoon, etc, are all acceptable.  The group will be unmoderated.  Rationale For:  Comic strip readers are a much larger group than comic book fans.  A very successful comic book will sell 100,000 copies per month.  By contrast, popular comic strips are read by millions every day.  Those comic strip readers who are not comic book fans neither read nor contribute to r.a.c; their interests are not served by it.  Why a subgroup rather than a new group?  Comic books and comic strips are closely related.  Some characters are published in both media. With the exception of "Peanuts" and a few other wildly popular strips, most reprint collections are done by comic-book related companies. Strips and books are produced by overlapping sets of writers and artists.  Making r.a.c.s a subgroup of r.a.c will help "kick-start" the group by immediately drawing off the comic strip postings from r.a.c, and should provide interesting cross-fertilization between the two.  Also, potential future splits of r.a.c should be kept in mind.  Someday we will have other narrow subgroups of comics, and keeping things in a tree makes more sense than having a number of very similar groups directly under an already crowded rec.arts.  Some counter arguements:  Is there enough existing traffic?  Yes and no.  Before the discussion began, a simple count of comic strip articles in r.a.c shows no more than two or three per day maximum.  By contrast, I'm seeing more and more requests for comic strip discussion in other groups.  The idea was floated at least twice by separate individuals in separate newsgroups (outside rec.arts.comics) in the 30 days before the formal disucussion.  One recent poster suggested a group devoted to Peanuts. It seems there's interest there; the problem is finding the people. Since the beginning of the discussion period, there has been a large upsurge in the use of "SUBJECT: STRIPS" in rec.arts.comics.  I take this as a clear indication of interest in strips, one which will be well-served by the creation of this group.  Why not a mailing list as proof of interest?  Good question.  There are several comic-book oriented mailing lists, but no strips mailing lists I know of.  I already run one mailing list (non-comics), and am starting two more.  For me, it's out of the question.  In addition, I think the strip reader is a very different individual than the comic book reader.  There does not seem to be the same white-hot fan activity for strips that there is for books.  IMHO, this is a result of the daily fix vs. the monthly (or longer) wait for the book.  In any case, that general lower activity level means no high-intensity person has built and and pushed a mailing list.  Summary of Past Discussion:  Thirty days ago the Call For Discussion for rec.arts.comics.strips was posted.  It was preceeded by about 45 days of informal discussion. Both discussions has been sparse but almost universally positive.  It's still not clear if there's enough interest to really get the minimum vote, but neither is it clear that such a proposal is doomed.  Two specific points were raised during the formal discussion.  First, a number of people were not clear on whether or not the charter permitted other forms of printed cartoons such as editorial cartoons, single-panel strips, non-serial strips or single panels, etc.  Since it was clear these were desired by the posters, I have modified the charter to make that inclusion clearer.  Second, there was some low-level discussion on the name.  In particular, several people suggested rec.arts.comic-strips.  However, no one was vehemently for or against r.a.c-s, and others were in favor of the original proposal.  Since there is general support for the name and no strong opposition, we will vote with the name r.a.c.strips.  Vote-Taker Ethics and Actions:  During the voting period, I will abstain from campaigning in any way, shape or form.  My only activities will be the initial posting of this CFV, its distribution to several mailing lists and related newsgroups, and a re-posting of same at regular intervals.  I will issue mass acknowlegments.  Individual acks will be issued only if (a) you ask for it, and (b) my time permits.  How To Vote:  To vote yes:   Send any message to [email protected]  To vote no:   Send any message to [email protected]  Note that neither of these are aliases for me, so mail sent to them will probably never be seen by a human being.  All votes must be received by 31 March 1992, 23:59 GMT.  This notice is cross-posted to:  rec.arts.comics rec.arts.comics.marketplace news.groups rec.arts.books rec.arts.sf.misc rec.humor alt.manga  In addition, I will drop a copy to the comix mailing list and comics-l. --    "I heard Oliver Stone's next movie was going to be about OSF." 	Paul Killey  From [email protected] Sat Apr  4 03:26:18 1992 Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1914 news.groups:40840 rec.arts.comics:57228 rec.arts.comics.marketplace:914 rec.arts.books:34207 rec.arts.sf.misc:1471 rec.humor:60378 alt.manga:738 rec.arts.anime:27264 Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.marketplace,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.manga,rec.arts.anime Path: rpi!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Simmons) Subject: 2nd CFV:  rec.arts.comics.strips Followup-To: poster Sender: [email protected] (David C Lawrence) Organization: Industrial Technology Institute Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1992 16:41:38 GMT Approved: [email protected]  Changes since previous call --    o  "Glen Larson" was corrected to "Gary Larson".    o  One instance of "comic.strips" was corrected to      "comics.strips."    o  This and subsequent reposts are not being distributed to      the various mailing lists.    o  rec.arts.anime has been added to the distribution list.  The complete text of the original CFV with the above changes is at the bottom of this note.  A mass ACK will be going out later this week.  Voting will continue until March 31.  Steve Simmons March 12, 1992  ======================================================================  2nd Call For Votes: rec.arts.comics.strips  The creation and steady activity of rec.arts.comics.marketplace as first subgroup in rec.arts.comics has proven the viability of establishing subgroups for r.a.c.  Past discussions of splitting r.a.c have foundered on an inability to divide the group rationally.  70 to 90% of the traffic (by my seat-of- the-pants estimate) is on "mainstream" comics, and there seems to be no good way to divide it.  This CFV is *not* for a general split of r.a.c.  It proposes to use the creation of r.a.c.m as a model for taking one specific subgroup of comics and create a new group for that specific topic.  Charter:  Rec.arts.comics.strips is for discussion of comic "strips" as opposed to comic books.  The classic form for comic strips is the Funny Pages of American newspapers, but the group is not limited to discussion of strips of this form.  Other forms such as editorial cartoons, single-panel cartoons such as by Gary Larson or Charles Addams, strips >from less frequent periodicals such as National Lampoon, etc, are all acceptable.  The group will be unmoderated.  Rationale For:  Comic strip readers are a much larger group than comic book fans.  A very successful comic book will sell 100,000 copies per month.  By contrast, popular comic strips are read by millions every day.  Those comic strip readers who are not comic book fans neither read nor contribute to r.a.c; their interests are not served by it.  Why a subgroup rather than a new group?  Comic books and comic strips are closely related.  Some characters are published in both media. With the exception of "Peanuts" and a few other wildly popular strips, most reprint collections are done by comic-book related companies. Strips and books are produced by overlapping sets of writers and artists.  Making r.a.c.s a subgroup of r.a.c will help "kick-start" the group by immediately drawing off the comic strip postings from r.a.c, and should provide interesting cross-fertilization between the two.  Also, potential future splits of r.a.c should be kept in mind.  Someday we will have other narrow subgroups of comics, and keeping things in a tree makes more sense than having a number of very similar groups directly under an already crowded rec.arts.  Some counter arguements:  Is there enough existing traffic?  Yes and no.  Before the discussion began, a simple count of comic strip articles in r.a.c shows no more than two or three per day maximum.  By contrast, I'm seeing more and more requests for comic strip discussion in other groups.  The idea was floated at least twice by separate individuals in separate newsgroups (outside rec.arts.comics) in the 30 days before the formal disucussion.  One recent poster suggested a group devoted to Peanuts. It seems there's interest there; the problem is finding the people. Since the beginning of the discussion period, there has been a large upsurge in the use of "SUBJECT: STRIPS" in rec.arts.comics.  I take this as a clear indication of interest in strips, one which will be well-served by the creation of this group.  Why not a mailing list as proof of interest?  Good question.  There are several comic-book oriented mailing lists, but no strips mailing lists I know of.  I already run one mailing list (non-comics), and am starting two more.  For me, it's out of the question.  In addition, I think the strip reader is a very different individual than the comic book reader.  There does not seem to be the same white-hot fan activity for strips that there is for books.  IMHO, this is a result of the daily fix vs. the monthly (or longer) wait for the book.  In any case, that general lower activity level means no high-intensity person has built and and pushed a mailing list.  Summary of Past Discussion:  Thirty days ago the Call For Discussion for rec.arts.comics.strips was posted.  It was preceeded by about 45 days of informal discussion. Both discussions has been sparse but almost universally positive.  It's still not clear if there's enough interest to really get the minimum vote, but neither is it clear that such a proposal is doomed.  Two specific points were raised during the formal discussion.  First, a number of people were not clear on whether or not the charter permitted other forms of printed cartoons such as editorial cartoons, single-panel strips, non-serial strips or single panels, etc.  Since it was clear these were desired by the posters, I have modified the charter to make that inclusion clearer.  Second, there was some low-level discussion on the name.  In particular, several people suggested rec.arts.comic-strips.  However, no one was vehemently for or against r.a.c-s, and others were in favor of the original proposal.  Since there is general support for the name and no strong opposition, we will vote with the name r.a.c.strips.  Vote-Taker Ethics and Actions:  During the voting period, I will abstain from campaigning in any way, shape or form.  My only activities will be the initial posting of this CFV, its distribution to several mailing lists and related newsgroups, and a re-posting of same at regular intervals.  I will issue mass acknowlegments.  Individual acks will be issued only if (a) you ask for it, and (b) my time permits.  How To Vote:  To vote yes:   Send any message to [email protected]  To vote no:   Send any message to [email protected]  Note that neither of these are aliases for me, so mail sent to them will probably never be seen by a human being. --  "One could implement POSIX using a very fast and very smart cockroach."   Donald A. Lewine, <[email protected]> in comp.std.unix  From [email protected] Sat Apr  4 03:28:28 1992 Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1924 news.groups:40900 rec.arts.comics:57277 rec.arts.comics.marketplace:920 rec.arts.books:34243 rec.arts.sf.misc:1482 rec.humor:60433 alt.manga:751 rec.arts.anime:27304 Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.marketplace,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.manga,rec.arts.anime Path: rpi!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Simmons) Subject: VOTE ACK:  rec.arts.comics.strips Followup-To: poster Sender: [email protected] (David C Lawrence) Organization: Industrial Technology Institute Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1992 07:23:32 GMT Approved: [email protected] Lines: 187  As of Wednesday March 11, votes have been recieved from the following:  "At least he didn't explode like all the others."  "Brian Vickers"  "Chris M. Anderson"  "Dave Schaumann"  "James E. Anderson, m/s 112-103, Comnet 435-5447" "Jamie L. Spriggs"  "Jonathan D. Lyness"  "Jonathan R. Ferro"  "Magnum"   "Maxime Taksar"  "Michael S. Schiffer"  "Murthy Yenamandra"  "Norman St. John Polevaulter"  "Patrick T. Lessard"  "Peter Davis, MLO1-2/U44, DTN 223-9045  05-Mar-1992 1047"  "Ross Whitwam 865-0658"  "Tony Kim, User Services Consultant, Pomona College" "net.spy!"  Addie Silva  Adina Adler  Andrew David Weiland  Andy Malis  Ben Cohen  Bob Cadman  COLLIN MCCULLEY  Chris Anderson  Chuck Carroll  Colin Edward Mac Donald  Daniel Hinojosa  Darren Wilcox  Dave Murphy  David Aronson  David Goldfarb  David Greene  David Hsu  Dawn Eskridge  Ed Baker  Erik Lettang  Evan Kirshenbaum  Gabe M Wiener  Glenn Host  Graham West  Henry Flournoy  James Ault  Jeff Hildebrand  Johan Blixt   John Sommerville  Jonathan M Lennox  Judy Anderson  Just Eddie  Justin Clark  Jym Dyer  K.Y.L.e  KJS @ucsb.mcl  KOGUTT  TODD BRADLEY  Kenneth A Graves  Kentaro Toyama  Kivi Shapiro  Lazlo Nibble  Lord Drizzan  Lowell Stewart  Michael Bowman  Michael Cohen  Michael Fessler  Mickey McCarter  Mitch Mcgowan  Mitchell E. Gold  Nick Lemberos (staff)  Norm Yamane  Paul Hobbs  Paul Palmer  Phred T. Platypus  Po Shan Cheah  RD Francis  Raymond Suke Flournoy  Ric Dube  Rob Caplan  Roland Kaltefleiter  Subrata Sircar  The Gad-Man   The Pierrot  Tony Rogers  Tony Zamora  Tsuyoshi Yamashiki  Unterhund  Windsor A. Morgan  [email protected] (Adams arthur c.) byron c go  hela!Athena.MIT.EDU!rlcarr hela!CC.MsState.Edu!boyd (Boyd Nation) hela!CRICK.SSCTR.bcm.tmc.edu!rick (Richard H. Miller) hela!Csli.Stanford.EDU!magerman (David Magerman) hela!FNAL.FNAL.GOV!MORROW (Greg Morrow) hela!NL.CS.CMU.EDU!mjc hela!Ra.MsState.Edu!bjm1 (Bobbie J. Mann) hela!airplane.sharebase.com!ted (Ted Marshall) hela!airs.com!ian (Ian Lance Taylor) hela!ais.org!roshne (Rod Shelton) hela!aludra.usc.edu!rjung (Robert Jung) hela!attmail.att.com!eoliveri (Edward F Oliveri) hela!bern.docs.uu.se!starback hela!blkcmb.zso.dec.com!marier hela!bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov!weiner (Gary Weiner) hela!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!jlesgold (Jacob Lesgold) hela!cblph.att.com!vjg hela!cc.gatech.edu!barrett (James C. 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Lewine, <[email protected]> in comp.std.unix  From [email protected] Tue Sep 12 10:43:36 1995 Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1777 news.groups:38221 rec.arts.comics:53608 rec.arts.comics.marketplace:509 rec.arts.books:32299 rec.arts.sf.misc:1056 rec.humor:57112 alt.manga:297 Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.marketplace,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.manga Path: rpi!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Simmons) Subject: RFD:  rec.arts.comics.strips Followup-To: news.groups Sender: [email protected] Nntp-Posting-Host: cs.rpi.edu Organization: Industrial Technology Institute Date: 1 Feb 92 06:08:36 GMT Approved: [email protected] Lines: 96 Status: RO X-Status:   Several weeks ago I posted a preliminary RFD to these same groups about a new group, rec.arts.comics.strips.  The discussion has been sparse but almost universally positive.  It's not clear if there's enough interest to really get the minimum vote, but neither is it clear that such a proposal is doomed.  One or two respondants suggested alternate names, but seemed to have no strong opinions either way.  Based on this, I'm moving to a formal RFD on establishing the group. My original posting, slightly modified based on suggestions from various folks, follows:  -------------------------------------------------------------------  The creation and steady activity of rec.arts.comics.marketplace as first subgroup in rec.arts.comics has proven the viability of establishing subgroups for r.a.c.  Past discussions of splitting r.a.c have foundered on an inability to divide the group rationally.  70 to 90% of the traffic (by my seat-of- the-pants estimate) is on "mainstream" comics, and there seems to be no good way to divide it.  This RFD is *NOT* proposing any general split of r.a.c.  It proposes to use the creation of r.a.c.m as a model for taking one specific subgroup of comics and create a new group for that specific topic.  Proposed charter:  Rec.arts.comics.strips is for discussion of comic "strips" as opposed to comic books.  The classic form for comic strips is the Funny Pages of American newspapers, but can and should include monthly strips such as those seen in National Lampoon, editorial cartoons, etc.  The group will be unmoderated.  Rationale:  Comic strip readers are a much larger group than comic book fans.  A very successful comic book will sell 100,000 copies per month.  By contrast, popular comic strips are read by millions every day.  Those comic strip readers who are not comic book fans neither read nor contribute to r.a.c; their interests are not served by it.  Why a subgroup rather than a new group?  Comic books and comic strips are closely related.  Some characters are published in both media. With the exception of "Peanuts" and a few other wildly popular strips, most reprint collections are done by comic-book related companies. Strips and books are produced by overlapping sets of writers and artists. Making r.a.c.s a subgroup of r.a.c will help "kick-start" the group by immediately drawing off the comic strip postings from r.a.c, and should provide interesting cross-fertilization between the two.  Also, potential future splits of r.a.c should be kept in mind.  Someday we will have other narrow subgroups of comics, and keeping things in a tree makes more sense than having a number of very similar groups directly under an already crowded rec.arts.  Some counter arguements:  Is there enough existing traffic?  Yes and no.  A simple count of comic strip articles in r.a.c shows no more than two or three per day maximum. By contrast, I'm seeing more and more requests for comic strip discussion in other groups.  The idea has been floated at least twice in the last 30 days by separate individuals in separate newsgroups (outside rec.arts.comics).  One recent poster suggested a group devoted to Peanuts. It seems there's interest there; the problem is finding the people.  Why not a mailing list as proof of interest?  Good question.  There are several comic-book oriented mailing lists, but no strips mailing lists I know of.  I already run one mailing list (non-comics), and am starting two more.  For me, it's out of the question.  In addition, I think the strip reader is a very different individual than the comic book reader.  There does not seem to be the same white-hot fab activity for strips that there is for books.  IMHO, this is a result of the daily fix vs. the monthly (or longer) wait for the book.  In any case, that general lower activity level means no high-intensity person has built and and pushed a mailing list.  At this time I'm especially interested in other groups where the discussion should be carried on, in hopes of finding those potential readers.  Don't send me suggestions, repost this note in those groups and make sure it's cross-posted to r.a.c and news.groups.  This posting is being sent to the following groups:  rec.arts.comics rec.arts.comics.marketplace news.groups rec.arts.books rec.arts.sf.misc rec.humor  In addition, I will drop a copy to the comix mailing list and comics-l. --   "Usenet is not a right."  -- Chip Salzenberg  "Usenet is a right, a left, a jab, and a sharp uppercut to the jaw.  The postman hits!  You have new mail."   -- Ed Vielmetti  From [email protected] Tue Sep 12 10:46:36 1995 Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1888 news.groups:40207 rec.arts.comics:56620 rec.arts.comics.marketplace:787 rec.arts.books:33815 rec.arts.sf.misc:1390 rec.humor:59793 alt.manga:632 Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.marketplace,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.manga Path: rpi!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Simmons) Subject: CFV:  rec.arts.comics.strips Followup-To: poster Sender: [email protected] Nntp-Posting-Host: cs.rpi.edu Organization: Inland Sea Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1992 05:58:52 GMT Approved: [email protected] Lines: 124 Status: RO X-Status:   Call For Votes: rec.arts.comic.strips  The creation and steady activity of rec.arts.comics.marketplace as first subgroup in rec.arts.comics has proven the viability of establishing subgroups for r.a.c.  Past discussions of splitting r.a.c have foundered on an inability to divide the group rationally.  70 to 90% of the traffic (by my seat-of- the-pants estimate) is on "mainstream" comics, and there seems to be no good way to divide it.  This CFV is *not* for a general split of r.a.c.  It proposes to use the creation of r.a.c.m as a model for taking one specific subgroup of comics and create a new group for that specific topic.  Charter:  Rec.arts.comics.strips is for discussion of comic "strips" as opposed to comic books.  The classic form for comic strips is the Funny Pages of American newspapers, but the group is not limited to discussion of strips of this form.  Other forms such as editorial cartoons, single-panel cartoons such as by Glen Larson or Charles Addams, strips >from less frequent periodicals such as National Lampoon, etc, are all acceptable.  The group will be unmoderated.  Rationale For:  Comic strip readers are a much larger group than comic book fans.  A very successful comic book will sell 100,000 copies per month.  By contrast, popular comic strips are read by millions every day.  Those comic strip readers who are not comic book fans neither read nor contribute to r.a.c; their interests are not served by it.  Why a subgroup rather than a new group?  Comic books and comic strips are closely related.  Some characters are published in both media. With the exception of "Peanuts" and a few other wildly popular strips, most reprint collections are done by comic-book related companies. Strips and books are produced by overlapping sets of writers and artists.  Making r.a.c.s a subgroup of r.a.c will help "kick-start" the group by immediately drawing off the comic strip postings from r.a.c, and should provide interesting cross-fertilization between the two.  Also, potential future splits of r.a.c should be kept in mind.  Someday we will have other narrow subgroups of comics, and keeping things in a tree makes more sense than having a number of very similar groups directly under an already crowded rec.arts.  Some counter arguements:  Is there enough existing traffic?  Yes and no.  Before the discussion began, a simple count of comic strip articles in r.a.c shows no more than two or three per day maximum.  By contrast, I'm seeing more and more requests for comic strip discussion in other groups.  The idea was floated at least twice by separate individuals in separate newsgroups (outside rec.arts.comics) in the 30 days before the formal disucussion.  One recent poster suggested a group devoted to Peanuts. It seems there's interest there; the problem is finding the people. Since the beginning of the discussion period, there has been a large upsurge in the use of "SUBJECT: STRIPS" in rec.arts.comics.  I take this as a clear indication of interest in strips, one which will be well-served by the creation of this group.  Why not a mailing list as proof of interest?  Good question.  There are several comic-book oriented mailing lists, but no strips mailing lists I know of.  I already run one mailing list (non-comics), and am starting two more.  For me, it's out of the question.  In addition, I think the strip reader is a very different individual than the comic book reader.  There does not seem to be the same white-hot fan activity for strips that there is for books.  IMHO, this is a result of the daily fix vs. the monthly (or longer) wait for the book.  In any case, that general lower activity level means no high-intensity person has built and and pushed a mailing list.  Summary of Past Discussion:  Thirty days ago the Call For Discussion for rec.arts.comics.strips was posted.  It was preceeded by about 45 days of informal discussion. Both discussions has been sparse but almost universally positive.  It's still not clear if there's enough interest to really get the minimum vote, but neither is it clear that such a proposal is doomed.  Two specific points were raised during the formal discussion.  First, a number of people were not clear on whether or not the charter permitted other forms of printed cartoons such as editorial cartoons, single-panel strips, non-serial strips or single panels, etc.  Since it was clear these were desired by the posters, I have modified the charter to make that inclusion clearer.  Second, there was some low-level discussion on the name.  In particular, several people suggested rec.arts.comic-strips.  However, no one was vehemently for or against r.a.c-s, and others were in favor of the original proposal.  Since there is general support for the name and no strong opposition, we will vote with the name r.a.c.strips.  Vote-Taker Ethics and Actions:  During the voting period, I will abstain from campaigning in any way, shape or form.  My only activities will be the initial posting of this CFV, its distribution to several mailing lists and related newsgroups, and a re-posting of same at regular intervals.  I will issue mass acknowlegments.  Individual acks will be issued only if (a) you ask for it, and (b) my time permits.  How To Vote:  To vote yes:   Send any message to [email protected]  To vote no:   Send any message to [email protected]  Note that neither of these are aliases for me, so mail sent to them will probably never be seen by a human being.  All votes must be received by 31 March 1992, 23:59 GMT.  This notice is cross-posted to:  rec.arts.comics rec.arts.comics.marketplace news.groups rec.arts.books rec.arts.sf.misc rec.humor alt.manga  In addition, I will drop a copy to the comix mailing list and comics-l. --    "I heard Oliver Stone's next movie was going to be about OSF." 	Paul Killey  From [email protected] Tue Sep 12 10:47:16 1995 Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1914 news.groups:40840 rec.arts.comics:57228 rec.arts.comics.marketplace:914 rec.arts.books:34207 rec.arts.sf.misc:1471 rec.humor:60378 alt.manga:738 rec.arts.anime:27264 Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.marketplace,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.manga,rec.arts.anime Path: rpi!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Simmons) Subject: 2nd CFV:  rec.arts.comics.strips Followup-To: poster Sender: [email protected] (David C Lawrence) Organization: Industrial Technology Institute Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1992 16:41:38 GMT Approved: [email protected] Status: RO X-Status:   Changes since previous call --    o  "Glen Larson" was corrected to "Gary Larson".    o  One instance of "comic.strips" was corrected to      "comics.strips."    o  This and subsequent reposts are not being distributed to      the various mailing lists.    o  rec.arts.anime has been added to the distribution list.  The complete text of the original CFV with the above changes is at the bottom of this note.  A mass ACK will be going out later this week.  Voting will continue until March 31.  Steve Simmons March 12, 1992  ======================================================================  2nd Call For Votes: rec.arts.comics.strips  The creation and steady activity of rec.arts.comics.marketplace as first subgroup in rec.arts.comics has proven the viability of establishing subgroups for r.a.c.  Past discussions of splitting r.a.c have foundered on an inability to divide the group rationally.  70 to 90% of the traffic (by my seat-of- the-pants estimate) is on "mainstream" comics, and there seems to be no good way to divide it.  This CFV is *not* for a general split of r.a.c.  It proposes to use the creation of r.a.c.m as a model for taking one specific subgroup of comics and create a new group for that specific topic.  Charter:  Rec.arts.comics.strips is for discussion of comic "strips" as opposed to comic books.  The classic form for comic strips is the Funny Pages of American newspapers, but the group is not limited to discussion of strips of this form.  Other forms such as editorial cartoons, single-panel cartoons such as by Gary Larson or Charles Addams, strips >from less frequent periodicals such as National Lampoon, etc, are all acceptable.  The group will be unmoderated.  Rationale For:  Comic strip readers are a much larger group than comic book fans.  A very successful comic book will sell 100,000 copies per month.  By contrast, popular comic strips are read by millions every day.  Those comic strip readers who are not comic book fans neither read nor contribute to r.a.c; their interests are not served by it.  Why a subgroup rather than a new group?  Comic books and comic strips are closely related.  Some characters are published in both media. With the exception of "Peanuts" and a few other wildly popular strips, most reprint collections are done by comic-book related companies. Strips and books are produced by overlapping sets of writers and artists.  Making r.a.c.s a subgroup of r.a.c will help "kick-start" the group by immediately drawing off the comic strip postings from r.a.c, and should provide interesting cross-fertilization between the two.  Also, potential future splits of r.a.c should be kept in mind.  Someday we will have other narrow subgroups of comics, and keeping things in a tree makes more sense than having a number of very similar groups directly under an already crowded rec.arts.  Some counter arguements:  Is there enough existing traffic?  Yes and no.  Before the discussion began, a simple count of comic strip articles in r.a.c shows no more than two or three per day maximum.  By contrast, I'm seeing more and more requests for comic strip discussion in other groups.  The idea was floated at least twice by separate individuals in separate newsgroups (outside rec.arts.comics) in the 30 days before the formal disucussion.  One recent poster suggested a group devoted to Peanuts. It seems there's interest there; the problem is finding the people. Since the beginning of the discussion period, there has been a large upsurge in the use of "SUBJECT: STRIPS" in rec.arts.comics.  I take this as a clear indication of interest in strips, one which will be well-served by the creation of this group.  Why not a mailing list as proof of interest?  Good question.  There are several comic-book oriented mailing lists, but no strips mailing lists I know of.  I already run one mailing list (non-comics), and am starting two more.  For me, it's out of the question.  In addition, I think the strip reader is a very different individual than the comic book reader.  There does not seem to be the same white-hot fan activity for strips that there is for books.  IMHO, this is a result of the daily fix vs. the monthly (or longer) wait for the book.  In any case, that general lower activity level means no high-intensity person has built and and pushed a mailing list.  Summary of Past Discussion:  Thirty days ago the Call For Discussion for rec.arts.comics.strips was posted.  It was preceeded by about 45 days of informal discussion. Both discussions has been sparse but almost universally positive.  It's still not clear if there's enough interest to really get the minimum vote, but neither is it clear that such a proposal is doomed.  Two specific points were raised during the formal discussion.  First, a number of people were not clear on whether or not the charter permitted other forms of printed cartoons such as editorial cartoons, single-panel strips, non-serial strips or single panels, etc.  Since it was clear these were desired by the posters, I have modified the charter to make that inclusion clearer.  Second, there was some low-level discussion on the name.  In particular, several people suggested rec.arts.comic-strips.  However, no one was vehemently for or against r.a.c-s, and others were in favor of the original proposal.  Since there is general support for the name and no strong opposition, we will vote with the name r.a.c.strips.  Vote-Taker Ethics and Actions:  During the voting period, I will abstain from campaigning in any way, shape or form.  My only activities will be the initial posting of this CFV, its distribution to several mailing lists and related newsgroups, and a re-posting of same at regular intervals.  I will issue mass acknowlegments.  Individual acks will be issued only if (a) you ask for it, and (b) my time permits.  How To Vote:  To vote yes:   Send any message to [email protected]  To vote no:   Send any message to [email protected]  Note that neither of these are aliases for me, so mail sent to them will probably never be seen by a human being. --  "One could implement POSIX using a very fast and very smart cockroach."   Donald A. Lewine, <[email protected]> in comp.std.unix  From [email protected] Tue Sep 12 10:47:29 1995 Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1924 news.groups:40900 rec.arts.comics:57277 rec.arts.comics.marketplace:920 rec.arts.books:34243 rec.arts.sf.misc:1482 rec.humor:60433 alt.manga:751 rec.arts.anime:27304 Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.marketplace,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.manga,rec.arts.anime Path: rpi!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Simmons) Subject: VOTE ACK:  rec.arts.comics.strips Followup-To: poster Sender: [email protected] (David C Lawrence) Organization: Industrial Technology Institute Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1992 07:23:32 GMT Approved: [email protected] Lines: 187 Status: RO X-Status:   As of Wednesday March 11, votes have been recieved from the following:  "At least he didn't explode like all the others."  "Brian Vickers"  "Chris M. Anderson"  "Dave Schaumann"  "James E. Anderson, m/s 112-103, Comnet 435-5447" "Jamie L. Spriggs"  "Jonathan D. Lyness"  "Jonathan R. Ferro"  "Magnum"   "Maxime Taksar"  "Michael S. Schiffer"  "Murthy Yenamandra"  "Norman St. John Polevaulter"  "Patrick T. Lessard"  "Peter Davis, MLO1-2/U44, DTN 223-9045  05-Mar-1992 1047"  "Ross Whitwam 865-0658"  "Tony Kim, User Services Consultant, Pomona College" "net.spy!"  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