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From [email protected] Fri Jul 14 11:18:10 1995 Status: RO Path: uunet!in1.uu.net!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Russ Allbery) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc Subject: RFD: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorg Followup-To: news.groups Date: 13 Jul 1995 20:19:23 -0400 Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University Lines: 157 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:7144 news.groups:159381 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:143821 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:19408                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)      unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic       unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc                         (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)         Summary:  Reorganization of rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace                  into separate groups for Magic: The Gathering and                  other trading-card games.      Proponents:  Dave Van Domelen <[email protected]>                  Russ Allbery <[email protected]>  This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the reorganization of the unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.  Do not vote now; this is the discussion phase only, and voting will not begin for at least 21 days.  This RFD will be crossposted to the following concerned groups:  	news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, 	rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, rec.games.trading-cards.misc  Followups have been set to news.groups and all discussion should take place there.  RATIONALE     rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted    statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on    Usenet.  The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely    difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The    Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority of    the traffic.  Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way, and it    is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the first screen    of the post which game the post concerns.     The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts    concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be    found by interested readers.  A beneficial side effect of this would be    to reduce off-topic marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc,    since the stated purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is    generally that marketplace is too full of Magic.     For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the traffic    breakdown below.  For specific comments on the decision to create a .misc    group, see the separate section below.  NEWSGROUP LINES  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc	Trading game card paraphernalia. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic	Trading of Magic: The Gathering.  CHARTERS     rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic    -----------------------------------------     This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and    auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)    related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game    published by Wizards of the Coast.  Discussion of trading is also    welcome.  Discussion of other aspects of the game besides trading belongs    in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate    for this newsgroup.     Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this    newsgroup may be crossposted.      rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc    ----------------------------------------     This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and    auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)    related to collectible trading-card games which do not have their own    groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* hierarchy.  Examples    of such games at this time include Illuminati: New World Order, Star    Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others.  Discussion of trading is also    welcome.  Discussion of other aspects of the games besides trading    belongs elsewhere in the rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not    appropriate for this newsgroup.     Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without    their own newsgroup may be crossposted.     Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to    indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.  TRAFFIC BREAKDOWN     Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between    June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that time    span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:        Magic: the Gathering	1,090 posts       Star Trek: CCG		   53 posts       Rage			   27 posts       Jyhad                        13 posts       INWO                          9 posts       SimCity                       6 posts       Star Wars                     6 posts       Wyvern                        6 posts       On The Edge                   3 posts       Spellfire                     3 posts       Bloodwars                     1 post       Doomtrooper                   1 post       Star of the Guardian          1 post       Warp                          1 post        More than one game           16 posts       Accessories                   2 posts        Off-topic                    39 posts       General discussion           24 posts       Unclassified                  9 posts       Split discussion              4 posts     As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of existing    traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point where postings    concerning any other game are very difficult to find.  No other game has    sufficient traffic volume at this time to support its own group.  NOTE ON MISC RENAMING     Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this    proposal is actually the new group.  The vast majority of the traffic in    rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new .magic    group.  The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the unlikely event    that the renaming passes and the other group fails, the hierarchy will    not be left without a group for trading trading-card games other than    Magic.  The .magic group cannot be left as rgt-c.marketplace without    causing unnecessary confusion.     This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the    traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness and    wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.  PROCEDURE     After a discussion period of 21 to 30 days, a Call for Votes (CFV) will    be issued.  The voting period will then last at least 21 days after that    time.  Once the vote result is posted, there will be a 5 day waiting    period to allow for any objections to the vote to be raised.  If there    are no serious objections, and if 100 more valid YES votes are received    than NO votes AND at least 2/3 of the total number of valid votes    received are YES, then the groups will be created.     If the renaming of .marketplace to .marketplace.misc passes, the    .marketplace group will be removed after a waiting period of    approximately two months, to allow time for the transition to the new    groups.     Again, DO NOT VOTE NOW.  This is the discussion phase of the process, and    voting will not begin for at least 21 days.  -- Russ Allbery ([email protected])     http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~rra/  From [email protected] Mon Jul 31 13:43:51 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Russ Allbery) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 31 Jul 1995 17:42:57 -0000 Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University Lines: 224 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7248 news.groups:162080 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:158012 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:20571                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions       unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc             (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)         Summary:  Reorganization of rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace                  into separate groups for Magic: The Gathering and                  other trading-card games.      Proponents:  Dave Van Domelen <[email protected]>                  Russ Allbery <[email protected]>  This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the reorganization of the unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.  Do not vote now; this is the discussion phase only, and voting will not begin for at least 21 days.  This RFD will be crossposted to the following concerned groups:  	news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, 	rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, rec.games.trading-cards.misc  Followups have been set to news.groups and all discussion should take place there.   RATIONALE     rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted    statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on    Usenet.  The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely    difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The    Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority of    the traffic.  Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way, and it    is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the first screen    of the post which game the post concerns.     The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts    concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be    found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic    into easily-distinguished subgroups.  Several people have stated that    they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all    three, depending on what they are looking for.     A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic marketplace    posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated purpose for    posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that marketplace is    too full of Magic.     For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the traffic    breakdown below.  For specific comments on the decision to create a .misc    group, see the separate section below.   NEWSGROUP LINES  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  Trading of trading card paraphernalia rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales  Selling Magic cards rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  Trading Magic cards rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions  Auctions of Magic cards   CHARTERS     rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales    -----------------------------------------------     This group is for the selling of games paraphernalia (cards, other    components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible    trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  Selling is defined    to be asking a set monetary price.  Trades and auctions are specifically    not appropriate.  Adding a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a    sale.  Discussion of sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects    of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.*    hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.     Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this    newsgroup may be crossposted.      rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades    ------------------------------------------------     This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other    components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible    trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  Trading is defined    to be offering merchandise for other merchandise, and specifically    includes trade auctions.  Sales and other types of auctions are    specifically not appropriate.  Combined trade/monetary auctions may be    crossposted to the auction group.  Discussion of trading is also welcome;    discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the    rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this    newsgroup.     Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this    newsgroup may be crossposted.      rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions    --------------------------------------------------     This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other    components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible    trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  For the purposes of    this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless they include the    possibility of a monetary bid.  Sales, where no bidding is taken, and    trades are specifically not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Discussion    of auctions is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game    besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy    and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.     POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY    THREE DAYS.  Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often    takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site.  If    your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web or ftp    site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not require    posting to this newsgroup.  As this is an unmoderated newsgroup, this    request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered extremely poor    manners to violate it.     Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this    newsgroup may be crossposted.      rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc    ----------------------------------------     This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and    auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)    related to collectible trading-card games which do not have their own    groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* hierarchy.  Examples    of such games at this time include Illuminati: New World Order, Star    Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others.  Discussion of trading is also    welcome.  Discussion of other aspects of the games besides trading    belongs elsewhere in the rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not    appropriate for this newsgroup.     Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without    their own newsgroup may be crossposted.     Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to    indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.   TRAFFIC BREAKDOWN     Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between    June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that time    span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:        Magic: the Gathering	1,090 posts       Star Trek: CCG		   53 posts       Rage			   27 posts       Jyhad                        13 posts       INWO                          9 posts       SimCity                       6 posts       Star Wars                     6 posts       Wyvern                        6 posts       On The Edge                   3 posts       Spellfire                     3 posts       Bloodwars                     1 post       Doomtrooper                   1 post       Star of the Guardian          1 post       Warp                          1 post        More than one game           16 posts       Accessories                   2 posts        Off-topic                    39 posts       General discussion           24 posts       Unclassified                  9 posts       Split discussion              4 posts     As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of existing    traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point where postings    concerning any other game are very difficult to find.  No other game has    sufficient traffic volume at this time to support its own group.     Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades, and    auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the proponent    will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should someone wish to    do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a fairly equal    distribution among the three types of posts, although with fewer trades    than sales or auctions.   NOTE ON MISC RENAMING     Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this    proposal is actually the new group.  The vast majority of the traffic in    rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new .magic    groups.  The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the unlikely event    that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the hierarchy will    not be left without a group for trading trading-card games other than    Magic.     This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the    traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness and    wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.   PROCEDURE     After a discussion period of 21 to 30 days, a Call for Votes (CFV) will    be issued.  The voting period will then last at least 21 days after that    time.  Once the vote result is posted, there will be a 5 day waiting    period to allow for any objections to the vote to be raised.  If there    are no serious objections, and if 100 more valid YES votes are received    than NO votes AND at least 2/3 of the total number of valid votes    received are YES, then the groups will be created.     If the renaming of .marketplace to .marketplace.misc passes, the    .marketplace group will be removed after a waiting period of    approximately two months, to allow time for the transition to the new    groups.     Again, DO NOT VOTE NOW.  This is the discussion phase of the process, and    voting will not begin for at least 21 days from the posting of the first    RFD.  -- Russ Allbery ([email protected])     http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~rra/  From [email protected] Wed Aug 16 20:34:24 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Jim Davis) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc Subject: CFV: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization Followup-To: poster Date: 17 Aug 1995 00:25:49 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 249 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 8 Sep 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7357 news.groups:164715 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:170878 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:21955                       FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)  NEWSGROUP LINES  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales         Selling Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades        Trading Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions      Auctions of Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  Trading of trading card paraphernalia.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 7 Sep 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Jim Davis <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed groups contact Russ Allbery <[email protected]> or Dave Van Domelen <[email protected]>.  RATIONALE (Submitted by the proposer)  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on Usenet.  The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority of the traffic.  Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way, and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the first screen of the post which game the post concerns.  The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic into easily-distinguished subgroups.  Several people have stated that they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all three, depending on what they are looking for.  A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that marketplace is too full of Magic.  For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the traffic breakdown below.  For specific comments on the decision to create a .misc group, see the separate section below.  Traffic breakdown -----------------  Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:        Magic: the Gathering      1,090 posts       Star Trek: CCG               53 posts       Rage                         27 posts       Jyhad                        13 posts       INWO                          9 posts       SimCity                       6 posts       Star Wars                     6 posts       Wyvern                        6 posts       On The Edge                   3 posts       Spellfire                     3 posts       Bloodwars                     1 post       Doomtrooper                   1 post       Star of the Guardian          1 post       Warp                          1 post        More than one game           16 posts       Accessories                   2 posts        Off-topic                    39 posts       General discussion           24 posts       Unclassified                  9 posts       Split discussion              4 posts  As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find. No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support its own group.  Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades, and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although with fewer trades than sales or auctions.  Note on misc renaming ---------------------  Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this proposal is actually the new group.  The vast majority of the traffic in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new .magic groups.  The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card games other than Magic.  This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales  This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary price.  Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Adding a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale.  Discussion of sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise, and specifically includes trade auctions.  Sales and other types of auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Combined trade/monetary auctions may be crossposted to the auction group.  Discussion of trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions  This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  For the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless they include the possibility of a monetary bid.  Sales, where no bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY THREE DAYS.  Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site. If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not require posting to this newsgroup.  As this is an unmoderated newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered extremely poor manners to violate it.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to collectible trading-card games which do not have their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* hierarchy.  Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati: New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others. Discussion of trading is also welcome.  Discussion of other aspects of the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without their own newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.  HOW TO VOTE  Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line.  Do not erase anything between these lines and do not change the group names.  Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it.  If you don't want to vote on a particular group, just leave the space blank.  Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Then mail the ballot to:  [email protected] Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorg Ballot     (Don't remove this marker)  Give your real name here:  [Your Vote]  Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote [ NO      ]  example.no.vote [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention  [         ]  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales [         ]  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades [         ]  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions [         ]  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES  You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.  Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  You should receive an automatic acknowledgment of your vote within three days.  If you do not, contact the votetaker about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.  Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Anonymous votes will not be accepted.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered anonymous votes.  (The vote must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.)  In cases where voting fraud is determined to have occurred, it is standard operating procedure to delete ALL votes submitted by the violator.  If you give anyone a copy of the CFV, it must be whole and unmodified.  When in doubt, ask the votetaker.  OFFICIAL SOURCES OF THE CFV  The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the Usenet newsgroups to which it is posted by the votetaker, including news.announce.newgroups, and the votetaker.  From [email protected] Fri Aug 25 17:20:37 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Jim Davis) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization Followup-To: poster Date: 25 Aug 1995 21:20:33 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 261 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 8 Sep 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7409 news.groups:165913 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:177788 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:22789                        LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)  NEWSGROUP LINES: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales         Selling Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades        Trading Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions      Auctions of Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  Trading of trading card paraphernalia.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 7 Sep 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Jim Davis <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed groups contact Russ Allbery <[email protected]> or Dave Van Domelen <[email protected]>.  RATIONALE: (Submitted by the proposer)  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on Usenet.  The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority of the traffic.  Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way, and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the first screen of the post which game the post concerns.  The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic into easily-distinguished subgroups.  Several people have stated that they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all three, depending on what they are looking for.  A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that marketplace is too full of Magic.  For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the traffic breakdown below.  For specific comments on the decision to create a .misc group, see the separate section below.  Traffic breakdown -----------------  Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:        Magic: the Gathering      1,090 posts       Star Trek: CCG               53 posts       Rage                         27 posts       Jyhad                        13 posts       INWO                          9 posts       SimCity                       6 posts       Star Wars                     6 posts       Wyvern                        6 posts       On The Edge                   3 posts       Spellfire                     3 posts       Bloodwars                     1 post       Doomtrooper                   1 post       Star of the Guardian          1 post       Warp                          1 post        More than one game           16 posts       Accessories                   2 posts        Off-topic                    39 posts       General discussion           24 posts       Unclassified                  9 posts       Split discussion              4 posts  As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find. No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support its own group.  Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades, and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although with fewer trades than sales or auctions.  Note on misc renaming ---------------------  Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this proposal is actually the new group.  The vast majority of the traffic in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new .magic groups.  The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card games other than Magic.  This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales  This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary price.  Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Adding a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale.  Discussion of sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise, and specifically includes trade auctions.  Sales and other types of auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Combined trade/monetary auctions may be crossposted to the auction group.  Discussion of trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions  This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  For the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless they include the possibility of a monetary bid.  Sales, where no bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY THREE DAYS.  Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site. If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not require posting to this newsgroup.  As this is an unmoderated newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered extremely poor manners to violate it.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to collectible trading-card games which do not have their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* hierarchy.  Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati: New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others. Discussion of trading is also welcome.  Discussion of other aspects of the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without their own newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.  END CHARTER.  HOW TO VOTE  Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line.  Do not erase anything between these lines and do not change the group names.  Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it.  If you don't want to vote on a particular group, just leave the space blank.  Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Then mail the ballot to:  [email protected] Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorg Ballot     (Don't remove this marker)  Give your real name here:  [Your Vote]  Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote [ NO      ]  example.no.vote [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention  [         ]  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales [         ]  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades [         ]  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions [         ]  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES  You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.  Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  You should receive an automatic acknowledgment of your vote within three days.  If you do not, contact the votetaker about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.  Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Anonymous votes will not be accepted.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered anonymous votes.  (The vote must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.)  In cases where voting fraud is determined to have occurred, it is standard operating procedure to delete ALL votes submitted by the violator.  If you give anyone a copy of the CFV, it must be whole and unmodified.  When in doubt, ask the votetaker.  OFFICIAL SOURCES OF THE CFV  The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the Usenet newsgroups to which it is posted by the votetaker, including news.announce.newgroups, and the votetaker.  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorg Bounce List - No need to revote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                                Rob van Riel [email protected]                                       Bruce H. Bowen  From [email protected] Tue Sep 12 15:40:25 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Jim Davis) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc Subject: CFV CANCELLED: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 12 Sep 1995 19:40:21 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 7 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7487 news.groups:167303 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:190201 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:24537  The current vote on the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization has been canceled because of email problems at the votetaker's site.  A new Call For Votes will be sent out soon.  Since the vote will be starting over from the beginning you will need to vote again; ballots from the current vote will not be carried over to the new vote.  I'm sorry for the inconvenience.   From [email protected] Tue Sep 12 15:41:48 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Jan Isley <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc,rec.games.trading-cards.announce Subject: CFV: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization (revote) Followup-To: poster Date: 12 Sep 1995 19:41:45 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 249 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 4 Oct 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> Reply-To: Jan Isley <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7498 news.groups:167314 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:190204 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:24538 rec.games.trading-cards.announce:230                       FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)  Newsgroups lines: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales	Selling Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades	Trading Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions	Auctions of Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc	Trading trading card stuff.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Oct 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Russ Allbery <[email protected]> Proponent: Dave Van Domelen <[email protected]> Votetaker: Jan Isley <[email protected]>  RATIONALE:  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on Usenet.  The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority of the traffic.  Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way, and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the first screen of the post which game the post concerns.  The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic into easily-distinguished subgroups.  Several people have stated that they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all three, depending on what they are looking for.  A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that marketplace is too full of Magic.  For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the traffic breakdown below.  For specific comments on the decision to create a .misc group, see the separate section below.  Traffic breakdown -----------------  Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:        Magic: the Gathering      1,090 posts       Star Trek: CCG               53 posts       Rage                         27 posts       Jyhad                        13 posts       INWO                          9 posts       SimCity                       6 posts       Star Wars                     6 posts       Wyvern                        6 posts       On The Edge                   3 posts       Spellfire                     3 posts       Bloodwars                     1 post       Doomtrooper                   1 post       Star of the Guardian          1 post       Warp                          1 post        More than one game           16 posts       Accessories                   2 posts        Off-topic                    39 posts       General discussion           24 posts       Unclassified                  9 posts       Split discussion              4 posts  As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find. No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support its own group.  Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades, and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although with fewer trades than sales or auctions.  Note on misc renaming ---------------------  Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this proposal is actually the new group.  The vast majority of the traffic in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new .magic groups.  The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card games other than Magic.  This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales  This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary price.  Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Adding a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale.  Discussion of sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise, and specifically includes trade auctions.  Sales and other types of auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Combined trade/monetary auctions may be crossposted to the auction group.  Discussion of trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions  This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  For the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless they include the possibility of a monetary bid.  Sales, where no bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY THREE DAYS.  Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site. If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not require posting to this newsgroup.  As this is an unmoderated newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered extremely poor manners to violate it.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to collectible trading-card games which do not have their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* hierarchy.  Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati: New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others. Discussion of trading is also welcome.  Discussion of other aspects of the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without their own newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.  END CHARTER.  HOW TO VOTE:  You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:        [email protected]  Please do not assume that just replying to this message will work. Check the address before you mail your vote.  Your mail message should contain one and only one of the following vote statements for each group you wish to vote on:        I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales       I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales        I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades       I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades        I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions       I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions        I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc       I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid votes for the total count.  If your mail software does not indicate your real name, please also include the following statement and add your name (on the same line).        Give your real name here:  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:  Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One person, one vote.  Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes.  Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post.  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, ask the votetaker. --  Jan Isley <[email protected]> votes to: <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Fri Sep 22 15:17:53 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Jan Isley <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc,rec.games.trading-cards.announce Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization (revote) Followup-To: poster Date: 22 Sep 1995 19:17:47 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 260 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 4 Oct 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> Reply-To: Jan Isley <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7592 news.groups:168166 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:197908 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:25655 rec.games.trading-cards.announce:238                        LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales   unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc (renames rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace)  Newsgroups lines: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales	Selling Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades	Trading Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions	Auctions of Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc	Trading trading card stuff.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Oct 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Russ Allbery <[email protected]> Proponent: Dave Van Domelen <[email protected]> Votetaker: Jan Isley <[email protected]>  RATIONALE:  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on Usenet.  The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority of the traffic.  Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way, and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the first screen of the post which game the post concerns.  The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic into easily-distinguished subgroups.  Several people have stated that they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all three, depending on what they are looking for.  A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that marketplace is too full of Magic.  For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the traffic breakdown below.  For specific comments on the decision to create a .misc group, see the separate section below.  Traffic breakdown -----------------  Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:        Magic: the Gathering      1,090 posts       Star Trek: CCG               53 posts       Rage                         27 posts       Jyhad                        13 posts       INWO                          9 posts       SimCity                       6 posts       Star Wars                     6 posts       Wyvern                        6 posts       On The Edge                   3 posts       Spellfire                     3 posts       Bloodwars                     1 post       Doomtrooper                   1 post       Star of the Guardian          1 post       Warp                          1 post        More than one game           16 posts       Accessories                   2 posts        Off-topic                    39 posts       General discussion           24 posts       Unclassified                  9 posts       Split discussion              4 posts  As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find. No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support its own group.  Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades, and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although with fewer trades than sales or auctions.  Note on misc renaming ---------------------  Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this proposal is actually the new group.  The vast majority of the traffic in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new .magic groups.  The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card games other than Magic.  This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales  This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary price.  Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Adding a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale.  Discussion of sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise, and specifically includes trade auctions.  Sales and other types of auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Combined trade/monetary auctions may be crossposted to the auction group.  Discussion of trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions  This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  For the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless they include the possibility of a monetary bid.  Sales, where no bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY THREE DAYS.  Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site. If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not require posting to this newsgroup.  As this is an unmoderated newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered extremely poor manners to violate it.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to collectible trading-card games which do not have their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* hierarchy.  Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati: New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others. Discussion of trading is also welcome.  Discussion of other aspects of the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without their own newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.  END CHARTER.  HOW TO VOTE:  You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:      [email protected]  Please do not assume that just replying to this message will work. Check the address before you mail your vote.  Your mail message should contain one and only one of the following vote statements for each group you wish to vote on:      I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales     I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales      I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades     I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades      I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions     I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions      I vote YES on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc     I vote NO on rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid votes for the total count.  If your mail software does not indicate your real name, please also include the following statement and add your name (on the same line).      Voter name:  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:  Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One person, one vote.  Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes.  Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post.  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, ask the votetaker.  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* Bounce List - No need to revote --------------------------------------------------------------------------- HART.FRANKLIN*[email protected]                           J. Andrew Hart [email protected]                                Michael Minnotte  Votes in error --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [email protected]                                    Patricia Dunville    ! No vote statement in message  --  Jan Isley <[email protected]>    |  Running UseVote 3.0 votes to: <[email protected]>  |  Powered by FreeBSD  From [email protected] Wed Oct  4 03:33:41 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Jan Isley <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace,rec.games.trading-cards.misc Subject: RESULT: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace reorganization (revote) all groups pass Followup-To: news.groups Date: 4 Oct 1995 07:33:33 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 622 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]><[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7669 news.groups:169381 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace:206459 rec.games.trading-cards.misc:26779                                  RESULT unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales passes 360:26 unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades passes 359:29 unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions passes 353:32 unmoderated group rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc passes 363:25   Yes   No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------  360   26 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales  359   29 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  353   32 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions  363   25 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc    5 invalid votes   Newsgroups lines: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales	Selling Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades	Trading Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions	Auctions of Magic cards. rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc	Trading trading card stuff.  Voting closed on 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Oct 1995.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Russ Allbery <[email protected]> Proponent: Dave Van Domelen <[email protected]> Votetaker: Jan Isley <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: all groups  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace, according to the last posted statistics, receives more posts per month than any other newsgroup on Usenet.  The sheer volume of the newsgroup has made it extremely difficult to follow, especially for those not interested in Magic: The Gathering, the card game which accounts for the overwhelming majority of the traffic.  Most of the Magic traffic is not marked in any way, and it is often difficult to tell from the subject line or even the first screen of the post which game the post concerns.  The main purpose of this proposal is therefore to split off posts concerning other card games from the Magic traffic so that they can be found by interested readers, as well as breaking up the Magic traffic into easily-distinguished subgroups.  Several people have stated that they often only look for one of sales, trades, and auctions, not all three, depending on what they are looking for.  A beneficial side effect of this would be to reduce off-topic marketplace posts to rec.games.trading-cards.misc, since the stated purpose for posting there rather than .marketplace is generally that marketplace is too full of Magic.  For more details on the current traffic in .marketplace, see the traffic breakdown below.  For specific comments on the decision to create a .misc group, see the separate section below.  Traffic breakdown -----------------  Analysis of 1,316 random articles posted to rgt-c.marketplace between June 11th and July 11th (weighted towards an interval early in that time span) reveals the following traffic breakdown:        Magic: the Gathering      1,090 posts       Star Trek: CCG               53 posts       Rage                         27 posts       Jyhad                        13 posts       INWO                          9 posts       SimCity                       6 posts       Star Wars                     6 posts       Wyvern                        6 posts       On The Edge                   3 posts       Spellfire                     3 posts       Bloodwars                     1 post       Doomtrooper                   1 post       Star of the Guardian          1 post       Warp                          1 post        More than one game           16 posts       Accessories                   2 posts        Off-topic                    39 posts       General discussion           24 posts       Unclassified                  9 posts       Split discussion              4 posts  As is apparent from this traffic breakdown, the vast majority of existing traffic is dedicated to Magic: The Gathering, to the point where postings concerning any other game are very difficult to find. No other game has sufficient traffic volume at this time to support its own group.  Additional analysis to determine the breakdown between sales, trades, and auctions among the Magic posts has not been done (although the proponent will gladly include any such analysis in this RFD should someone wish to do it), but a quick scan of the newsgroup reveals a fairly equal distribution among the three types of posts, although with fewer trades than sales or auctions.  Note on misc renaming ---------------------  Unlike most renamings of groups to .misc, the .misc group in this proposal is actually the new group.  The vast majority of the traffic in rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace is expected to move to the new .magic groups.  The renaming is phrased as it is so that, in the unlikely event that the renaming passes and the other groups fail, the hierarchy will not be left without a group for trading trading-card games other than Magic.  This proposal therefore does not include a .misc renaming in the traditional sense, and the ongoing debate about the appropriateness and wisdom of such renamings is not relevant.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales  This group is for the selling of or offering of money for games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  Selling is defined to be asking a set monetary price.  Trades and auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Adding a buy-out bid to an auction does not make it a sale.  Discussion of sales is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades  This group is for the trading of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast. Trading is defined to be offering merchandise for other merchandise, and specifically includes trade auctions.  Sales and other types of auctions are specifically not appropriate.  Combined trade/monetary auctions may be crossposted to the auction group.  Discussion of trading is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions  This group is for the auctioning of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.) related to Magic: The Gathering, a collectible trading-card game published by Wizards of the Coast.  For the purposes of this newsgroup, auctions exclude trade auctions unless they include the possibility of a monetary bid.  Sales, where no bidding is taken, and trades are specifically not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Discussion of auctions is also welcome; discussion of other aspects of the game besides sales belongs in the rec.games.trading-cards.magic.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  POSTERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO POST NO MORE THAN ONE UPDATE EVERY THREE DAYS.  Due to the nature of Usenet news transmission, it often takes more than three days for a post to reach any given Usenet site. If your auction requires more frequent updates, please provide a Web or ftp site, e-mail them, or transmit them in some way that does not require posting to this newsgroup.  As this is an unmoderated newsgroup, this request cannot be enforced; however, it is considered extremely poor manners to violate it.  Posts concerning several games which are otherwise appropriate for this newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc  This group is for the trading (which includes buying, selling, and auctioning) of games paraphernalia (cards, other components, rules, etc.)  related to collectible trading-card games which do not have their own groups in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* hierarchy.  Examples of such games at this time include Illuminati: New World Order, Star Trek, Wyvern, Jyhad, and many others. Discussion of trading is also welcome.  Discussion of other aspects of the games besides trading belongs elsewhere in the rec.games.trading-cards.* hierarchy and is not appropriate for this newsgroup.  Posts concerning both games with their own newsgroup and games without their own newsgroup may be crossposted.  Crossposting to discussion groups is specifically not appropriate.  Posters are STRONGLY encouraged to use keywords on the subject line to indicate the game(s) to which their posts are relevant.  END CHARTER.  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.* Final Vote Ack                              rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc ------+                  rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.auctions -----+|                    rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.trades ----+||                     rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales ---+|||                                                                        |||| [email protected]                         Tarragon Moon Allen YYYY [email protected]                                   Trevor Hyde YYYY [email protected]                                       Andrew Durston YYYY [email protected]                            Achim Reinhardt YYYY [email protected]                                        Adam Kake YYYY [email protected]                               Andrea Gondring YYYY [email protected]                                          Angelo Kandas YYYY [email protected]                                  Anita Kilgour YNNY [email protected]                                 Alan Nichols YYYY [email protected]                                  Alan Glover YYYY [email protected]                                     Alan Hoyle YYYY [email protected]                           Alexander von Thorn YYYY [email protected]                                     Jesse Littlewood YYYY [email protected]                                     Ed Allen YYYY [email protected]                                     Andy Merritt YYYY [email protected]                                         Alan Gopin YYYY [email protected]                      Andreas Jellinghaus YYYY [email protected]                                         Andrew Hung YYYY [email protected]                                  Andrew Herington YYYY [email protected]                                Andrew Brecher YYYY [email protected]                                         Andy Latto YYYY [email protected]                                     Vincent Archer YYYY [email protected]                                       Arthur Kimes YYYY [email protected]                                      Adrian Salter YYYY [email protected]                                       Ashton Eidolon -YYY [email protected]                                          Kevin Barth YYYY [email protected]                                 Basil Vandegriend YYYY [email protected]                                  Shaper Y-YY [email protected]                                             Bryan Ebersole YYYY [email protected]                                         Jeremy York YYYY [email protected]                                               Ellen Edge YYYY [email protected]                               Burt N Holzman NNNN [email protected]                                            Alan Fisher Y--- [email protected]                                      Tracy S. Bitonti YYYY [email protected]                                         B.J. Herbison ---Y [email protected]                                     Steven Howard YYYY [email protected]                                   Mark Boyes YYYY [email protected]                             Brian Vickers YYYY [email protected]                                Alberto Verdini YYYY [email protected]                                            Brus Wasson YYYY [email protected]                                    Bill Stripp YYYY [email protected]                                      Stephane Bura YYYY [email protected]                             Bradley R Burns YYYY c57665[email protected]                       Christopher L. Weeks YYYY [email protected]             Curtis "Chewbacca" Desjardins YYNY [email protected]                                           Andrew Carey NNNN [email protected]                                       Carl Norum YYYY [email protected]                     Caroline Davis Burstein YYYY [email protected]                                         Alan De Smet YYYY [email protected]                                    Tony Charles YYYY [email protected]                    Andreas Christalon YYYY [email protected]                                 Christian Tellefsen YYYY [email protected]                          Cliff Blanchette YYYY [email protected]                              Charles Poirier YYYY [email protected]                                 Chris-top-her YYYY [email protected]                                  Cody M. Stumpo YYYY [email protected]                            Michele Coleman YYYY [email protected]                                Kevin Scaldeferri YYYY [email protected]                                     J. Craig Brunson NNNY [email protected]                             John Croft YYYY [email protected]                      Kenneth P Crouch ---- [email protected]                                              Don Croyle NNNN [email protected]                                       Michiel Wijers NNNN [email protected]                                       Cynthia Buffum YYYY [email protected]                             Tapani Utriainen -Y-- [email protected]                                               Dale King YYYY [email protected]                           Damian O'Dea YYYY [email protected]                                    Dan Harkless YYYY [email protected]                                             Dave Anderson YYYY [email protected]                                    David Thureson YYYY [email protected]                                 David DeLaney YYYY [email protected]                                  Dimitri Katsaros YYYY [email protected]                                          Jack Wilson NNNY [email protected]                                         Tony DeLyria YYYY [email protected]                      Joseph W. DeVincentis YYYY [email protected]                                       Justin Diachun YYYY [email protected]                                   Dick Zelvelder ---Y [email protected]                           Brett A. Burkholder YYYY [email protected]                                        D. J. Trindle YYYY [email protected]                                         Dan Tomso YYYY [email protected]                                         Darby Keeney YYYY [email protected]                                               David Latz YYYY [email protected]                                    Thomas A. Doehne YYYY [email protected]                                                       YYYY [email protected]                             Dennis P. Brown YYYY [email protected]                                            Don Perrin YYYY [email protected]                                       david (d.) peters YYYY [email protected]                                         David Resnick YYYY [email protected]                                 Dean Richards YYYY [email protected]                                            David Bedno YYYY [email protected]                                                          YYYY [email protected]                                       Michael Bahr YYYY [email protected]                     Dave Van Domelen YYYY [email protected]                                        Douglas W. Anderson YYYY [email protected]                              Robert I. Eachus YYYY [email protected]                                Russ Allbery YYYY [email protected]                                 Robert Blackman YYYY [email protected]                                         Steve Earth YYYY [email protected]                                              Jake Edge YYYY [email protected]                                          David Doust YNNY [email protected]                                     Eric Oster YYYY [email protected]                                   John M. Elston YYYY [email protected]                                    Rene Reichardt YYYY [email protected]                                  James Smith YYYY [email protected]                                      R. Eric Reuss YYYY [email protected]                                 Erica L. Frank YYYY [email protected]                                    Erich Selna YYYY [email protected]                                 E.C. Abrahamse -YYY [email protected]                                      Gene Schwartzman YYYY [email protected]                             Beth Walz YYYY [email protected]                                J. Andrew Lipscomb YYYY [email protected]                                            YYYY [email protected]                         David Michael Mendelsohn YYYY [email protected]                                          Bob Flaminio YYYY [email protected]                                       Christian Folini YYYY [email protected]                                       Glyn Forster YYYY [email protected]                                   Fred Timm YYYY [email protected]                                       Frederick Scott YYYY [email protected]                                    Hal Tippens YYY- [email protected]                                                       YYYY [email protected]          Frederic Gingras aka - The Raven - YYY- [email protected]                                         Joe Helfrich YYYY [email protected]                                        Pete Gaughan YYYY [email protected]                                          Geb Buxton YYYY [email protected]                                   Randall M! Gee YYYY [email protected]                          Peter M. Geiser YYYY [email protected]                                      Geoffrey H Spear NNNN [email protected]                             Eric Gilbertson YYYY [email protected]                               Richard Goodman YYYY [email protected]                               Dan Gosselin YYYY [email protected]                                     Allen Rines YYYY [email protected]                                     Coranth Gryphon YYYY [email protected]                                      Bin Chen YYYY [email protected]                                    John Guthrie YYYY [email protected]                                  Gregory Weiss YYYY HART.FRANKLIN*[email protected]                      J. Andrew Hart YYYY [email protected]                                      Patrick A. Ludwig YYYY [email protected]                                  Harry Benkiel YYYY [email protected]                                Brian Hebert YYYY [email protected]                                                      YYYY [email protected]                                   William R. Ward NNNN [email protected]                                Brent Heustess YYYY [email protected]                                          Scott Hoffman YYYY [email protected]                                        Gordon Holcomb YYYY [email protected]                                Helen Trillian Rose YYYY [email protected]                                           Greg Hunt YYYY [email protected]                                            Hyman Rosen YYYY [email protected]                                        Josh Smith YYYY [email protected]HUB.CC.UKANS.EDU                        ALLAN T. GROHE, JR. YYYY [email protected]                                            Innate Mak YYYY [email protected]                                               Jeff Boes NNNY [email protected]                                      John Yeates YYYY [email protected]                                  Jeff Abramson NNNY [email protected]                               John Huntington ---Y [email protected]                              Jan Coekelberghs ---N [email protected]                    Jasper M. Rosenberg YYYY [email protected]                                    John C. Fiala YYYY [email protected]                                      Joseph C. Garner YYYY [email protected]                                               Jeff Curry YYYY [email protected]                       Joshua Marquart YYYY [email protected]                                Joe. Dunville YY-- [email protected]                            Jeff D. Williamson YYYY [email protected]                                    Jefferson P. Carey YYYY [email protected]                                    Jen Hassler YYYY [email protected]                                         Jens Schou YYYY [email protected]                                         Jeremy White YYYY [email protected]                             J. Eric Townsend YYYY [email protected]                                      John Fowler YYYY [email protected]                                         Joseph Grace YYYY [email protected]                                   Joseph H. Kernodle YYYY [email protected]                                  John Lagrave YYYY [email protected]                                         Joe Mucchiello YYYY [email protected]                                     Jon Masters YYYY [email protected]        James R. McClure Jr. YYYY [email protected]                                          James Lebak YYYY [email protected]                                Joe Robins YYYY [email protected]            Joe St Sauver ([email protected]) NNNN [email protected]                                            John Abbe YYYY [email protected]                                         Mark Johnson YYYY [email protected]                                 John Teti Jr. YYYY [email protected]                                Leah and Shawn Johnson YYYY [email protected]                            Jonas Schiott YYYY [email protected]                                           Trevor Tymchuk YYYY [email protected]                                              Mark Jones YYYY [email protected]                                   Jake Patterson YYYY [email protected]                                John R. Ricker Jr. YYYY [email protected]                             John R. MacWilliamson NNNN [email protected]                                    Jeff Webster YYYY [email protected]                                    Joseph E. Trawick YYYY [email protected]                                    William T. Kahler YYYY [email protected]                                  Atro Kajaste YYYY [email protected]                                         Klas Mellbourn YYYY [email protected]                                YYYY [email protected]                                 Karsten Krieg YYYY [email protected]                                           Malcolm Rose YYYY [email protected]                                        Kevin Chung YYYY [email protected]                                           David Kiker YYYY [email protected]                                          Kirby Krueger YYYY [email protected]                                Kjetil Svendsberget YYYY [email protected]                                             Kenny Reed YYYY [email protected]                     Kevin Michael Fehlberg YYYY [email protected]                                       Gerald Dokka NNNY [email protected]                                Michael C Kuczi YYYY [email protected]                                         Kenny Raby YYYY [email protected]                                           Kenny Sinn YYYY [email protected]                                             YYYY [email protected]                               Eric Kuritzky YYYY [email protected]                                          Alan Kwan YYYY [email protected]                                      Keith Wilhite YYYY [email protected]                                 Kevin W. Thornton YYYY [email protected]                                  Luca Lettieri YYYY [email protected]                                          Lance K. Chun NNNN [email protected]                                Lantz Rowland YYYY [email protected]                                         Larry Reeves YYYY [email protected]                                 Ville Lavonius YYYY [email protected]                                             Steven Lee YYYY [email protected]                                         Leif Euren YYYY [email protected]                                  Leon D. Leithoff YYYY [email protected]                                     LittleZero YYYY [email protected]                          Martin Schr"oder YYYY [email protected]                                Lisa Kvarda YYYY [email protected]                                 Leo Davis YYYY [email protected]                                  Lonnie Barnett YYYY [email protected]                    Lars Onsager, [email protected] YYYY [email protected]                            Jacob R. Lorch YYYY [email protected]                       Christopher E. Sanders YYYY [email protected]                                          Daniel Sharp YYYY [email protected]                            Mike Dalton YYYY [email protected]                                 Erik Allen  YYYY [email protected]                                 Michael Fitch YYYY [email protected]                               Maria C. Boyington YYYY [email protected]                      Andrew Markiel YYYY [email protected]                               Martin Higham YYYY [email protected]                                 Ken Gerrard YYYY [email protected]                                 Arjen Gnodde YYYN [email protected]                        Michael C. Barden YYYY [email protected]                                   Mark J. Dulcey YYYY [email protected]                                     meiko-chan YYYY [email protected]                                    Peter Meilinger YYYY [email protected]                         Michael Edward Noth YYYY [email protected]                                      Michael Bryan YYYY [email protected]                                          Mike Knauer YYYY [email protected]                       Michael Pusateri YYYY [email protected]                           Michael Minnotte YYYY [email protected]                                    Matt J. Carlson YYYY [email protected]                                                Mark Sironi YYYY [email protected]                          Michael T. Kelly YYYY [email protected]                                       Myra Wong NNNY [email protected]                                   Michael MacKinnon YYYY [email protected]                                  M Mike Taksar KC6ZPS ---- [email protected]                              Joshua Kronengold YYYY [email protected]                                            Mike Sullivan YYYY [email protected]                                       Mariela Ortiz YYYY [email protected]                                        Mike Brezsnyak YYYY [email protected]                     Geoffrey Todd Walker YYYY [email protected]                                   Mike Marcelais YNYY [email protected]              Klaus Mueller YYYY [email protected]                          Michael W. Daniels YYYY [email protected]                                     Nancy Durgin YYYY [email protected]                                              Nat Johnson YYYY [email protected]                                       Charles E. Bush YYYY [email protected]                           Abd al-Azrad YYYY [email protected]                              Michael J. Nickoloff YYYY [email protected]                                      Piers Hearn YYYY [email protected]                                     Olav Nieuwejaar NNNN [email protected]                                         Olav Sxyseth YYYY [email protected]                             Ollivier Robert YYYY [email protected]                                             david parsons YYYN [email protected]                                          Stephen Padbury YYYY [email protected]                                   Patrick J. 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Garrett YYYY [email protected]                                 Richard C. Mills YYYY [email protected]                                        Rob Derrick YYYY [email protected]                                        Robyn Kozierok YYYY [email protected]                                      Ron Ronsayro YYYY [email protected]                                  Rod Shelton YYYY [email protected]                                    Rodney Schuler YYYY [email protected]                                     Robert Smits NNNN [email protected]                      Roxanne P. 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Stewart YYYY [email protected]                                          John Yu YYYY [email protected]                                                Sandy Dong -Y-- [email protected]                                     Sheila Davis YYYY [email protected]                           Jacob Olbert YYYY [email protected]                            Steve Goodman YYYY [email protected]                                Steve Griffin YYYY [email protected]                                     Alexander Siegelin YYYY [email protected]                                       Sean Harvey YYYY [email protected]                                     Michael Shields YYYY [email protected]                                            Seth Hoyt YYYY [email protected]                            Shrisha Rao NNNN [email protected]                                         Bob Simpson YYYY [email protected]                                        karl scheirer YYYY [email protected]                              Scott Kitchen YYYY [email protected]                                 Smarasderagd NNNN [email protected]                                      Scott M. Larabee YYYY [email protected]                                          Dave Howell YYYY [email protected]                                 Steffan O'Sullivan YYYY [email protected]                                  Susan Parker YYYY [email protected]                                  Stephen Patterson YYYN [email protected]                                   Erik Selberg YYYY [email protected]                             Eric Mulvihill YYYY [email protected]                                     Dylan F. Walsh YYYY [email protected]                                                          YYYY [email protected]                                   Staffan Friberg YYYY [email protected]                                          Dwight Brown NNNN [email protected]                             Sarah Skovronsky YYYY [email protected]                      Stephan Hermens YYYY [email protected]                        Andrew Stefanski YYYY [email protected]                                   Michael J. Stern YYYY [email protected]                        Abraham Theodorus Stolk YYYY [email protected]                                  Stu Labovitz YYYY [email protected]                               Stuart Smith YYYY [email protected]                                 Steven Zwanger YYYY [email protected]                                           Alexander Loew YYYY [email protected]                                        Tod Beardsley YYYY [email protected]                                        Tom de Ruyter YYYY [email protected]                                          Bill Toscano YYYY [email protected]                    Technical Intelligence-MN-USA NNNN [email protected]                              Deven D. Atkinson YYYY [email protected]                            Ted Kim (Random Dude) YYYY [email protected]                              Tom Gioconda YYYY [email protected]                            Thomas Granvold YYYY [email protected]                         Thomas Mechtersheimer YYYY [email protected]                                  David H. Thornley YYYY [email protected]                                        Tim Fierro YYYY [email protected]                                          Tim Otholt YYYY [email protected]                      Todd C. Lawson NNNY [email protected]                              Thomas McCambley YYYY [email protected]                                   Michael F. Tomkins. YYYY [email protected]                                             Toby Elliott YYYY [email protected]                                Tommy Johansson YYYY [email protected]                                Shane H. W. Travis YYYY [email protected]                                      Donald Tsang YYYY [email protected]                              Tim Skirvin YYYN [email protected]                                  Michael Tsuk YYYY [email protected]                                Tim Pierce NNNY [email protected]                                   David Alan Urbanek YYYY [email protected]                                       Jack Dracula YYNY [email protected]                                         N. T. Wakelyn YYYN [email protected]                                    Paul Waterman YYYY [email protected]                                         Jim McDonald YYYY [email protected]                                      William C. Ralph YYYY [email protected]                                       Bob Weissman NNNN [email protected]                         Don Wells - NPG Sr. SysAdmin YYYY [email protected]                                        W.W. Gilpin YYYY [email protected]                                                  Wes Jones YYYY [email protected]                                Wendell T. Hicken YYYY [email protected]                                 Risto Widenius NNNN [email protected]                                         Jeff Wilder YYYY [email protected]                                                Seyil Yoon Y--- [email protected]                                  Paul Winter YYYY [email protected]                                                 Jaeger YYYY [email protected]                                    Walter Klust YYYY [email protected]                                Andrew D. Woodard YYYY [email protected]                                              Glenn Godard YYYY [email protected]                                         Jim Croci YYYY [email protected]                               Aaron C. Eidinger YYYY [email protected]                                            Brent Burke YYYY [email protected]                                     Yee-Ming Chan YYYY [email protected]                                             YYYY   Votes in error --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [email protected]                          David Clark-Joseph    ! Conflicting votes [email protected]                                    Patricia Dunville    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                    Tony Lee Manion    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                      John W Elbl    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                          John Nowakowski    ! No vote statement in message 
 
USENET FACT: Big-8
BIG-8 hierarchies are the 8 traditional top hierarchies of the Usenet. See the following page for more
 
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