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General ( rec.music.marketplace )

From [email protected] Wed Mar 10 20:57:31 1993 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Mark Lakata) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.marketplace Subject: RFD: rec.music.marketplace reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 3 Mar 1993 23:38:57 -0500 Organization: /etc/organization Lines: 67 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3308 news.groups:67522 rec.music.marketplace:3949  REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION FOR SPLITTING REC.MUSIC.MARKETPLACE  INTRODUCTION:  rec.music.marketplace is an active group with roughly 40 posts a day dealing with the buying and selling of anything related to music.  This classification is quite wide, and the bulk of the items for trade can be easily classified into two groups.  The first group is recordings of music, while the second group is equipment for the creation of music. The volume of posts of either type is consistently moderate and comparable to each other.   SUGGESTION:  The suggestion is to create two new groups,  REC.MUSIC.MARKETPLACE.EQUIPMENT    This group will be for buying and selling used musical equipment, such   as synthesizers, guitars, band instruments, audio effects processors,   recording equipment, DJ equipment, etc.  All subject headings should be   prefaced by either FOR SALE: or WANTED:   REC.MUSIC.MARKETPLACE.RECORDINGS    This group will be for buying and selling used musical recordings, such   as compact discs, vinyl records, cassette tapes, rare recordings, music   videos, etc.  All subject headings should be prefaced by either FOR SALE:   or WANTED:  REC.MUSIC.MARKETPLACE would then be eliminated.   All these newsgroups will be UNMODERATED.   RATIONALE:  An informal vote, culled from the responses to the suggestion of splitting, was 7 posts for, 0 against.  The people responding said that they were either looking for equipment but not compact discs, or they were looking for compact discs but not equipment.  The two types of items for trade are very different and there should be no ambiguity whether an item is a recording or piece of equipment.  A rough overview of the last 3 days of posting break down as follows:    10 Synths for Sale or Wanted   10 Recording Equipment or Effects Processors for Sale or Wanted    5 Other Music equipment       17 Recordings Wanted   25 Recordings for Sale    21 Unnecessary Postings and Flames      Sincerely submitted,   Mark Lakata  NOTE: All subsequent discussion on this proposal should take place        in NEWS.GROUPS or at least cross-posted to it.  From [email protected] Fri Nov 25 17:46:22 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (T. P. Uschanov) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.rock-n-roll.classic,alt.rock-n-roll.oldies,rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.collecting,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.misc Subject: RFD: rec.collecting.records Followup-To: news.groups Date: 25 Nov 1994 15:14:31 -0500 Organization: Freenet Finland Lines: 96 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5993 news.groups:124614 alt.rock-n-roll.classic:12012 alt.rock-n-roll.oldies:8449 rec.antiques.radio+phono:2163 rec.collecting:30883 rec.music.marketplace:24341 rec.music.misc:165481  REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) ============================          Newsgroup Name: rec.collecting.records                 Status: unmoderated           Distribution: world                 Summary: Discussion and debate on issues of interest to 			record collectors and those interested in buying, 			selling and trading phonograph records.           Submitted by: T. P. Uschanov <[email protected]>                                        <[email protected]>     This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the  unmoderated newsgroup rec.collecting.records.   Follow up to news.groups please.   CHARTER =======  rec.collecting.records is intended to be an unmoderated newsgroup for buying, selling, trading, and exchange of information, ideas and opinions regarding records and collecting them, mainly vinyl albums and singles, but not excluding 78 rpm records or compact discs of older or rare material.  Topics of discussion will include but are not limited to:  * Buying			* Restoration, storage and preservation * Selling			* Research * Trading			* Reviews of books on and re-issues of vintage * Queries about the values,       music   provenance and authenticity   * Queries about the recommendability of   of unfamiliar records           records and dealers   The discussions will be in English.    RATIONALE =========   After the period of the alleged 'demise' of vinyl records caused by the introduction of the compact disc, there is now an increasing interest in analog sound carriers from the past and the present, and the interest has never been low, as the popularity of specialist magazines such as _Goldmine_ and _DISCoveries_ shows.  There are currently several newsgroups in which discussion of records takes place, but none of them is quite what is needed.  alt.rock-n-roll.classic and alt.rock-n-roll.oldies are for all kinds of discussion on 'classic' rock and music of the 1950s and 1960s, respectively.  rec.antiques.radio+phono is mainly for technical questions of radios and phonographs, and the records sometimes discussed there are invariably 78 rpm.  rec.collecting is a forum for collectors, but it is too large and varied to justify the idea of doing the record collecting discussion there.  The most controversial related group is rec.music.marketplace.  This RFD is the direct result of recent discussion there concerning the lack of a vinyl newsgroup; it was felt that there were many people reading r.m.m who had no interest in buying or selling compact discs (much of them of contemporary material) and/or musical instruments (for which there also is the little-known newsgroup rec.music.makers.marketplace).  Furthermore, r.m.m is pretty much restricted for buying and selling only, and is therefore inappropriate for questions and discussion.  When I recently proposed newsgroup alt.collecting.records and announced my proposal on several of the groups mentioned above, I got more than 100 follow-up postings and personal replies, many of them radiating enthusiasm, and challenging my fears that a rec.* group would not pass (the reason I proposed an alt.* group first).   This RFD will be posted on the following newsgroups:           news.groups         news.announce.newgroups         alt.rock-n-roll.classic         alt.rock-n-roll.oldies 	rec.antiques.radio+phono 	rec.collecting 	rec.music.marketplace         rec.music.misc   The discussion will be held in news.groups. The discussion will start November 25, 1994, and will last for three weeks, until December 16, 1994. If there is enough interest in the newsgroup, a Call for Votes (CFV) will  be posted shortly after the end of the discussion period. The voting will  be conducted by an neutral third party.  To get more information on newsgroup creation, please refer to the article  "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" usually found on  news.announce.newsgroups.  T. P. Uschanov [email protected] [email protected] --  t. p. uschanov               internet: [email protected] world dadaist congress                 [email protected] joensuu * finland * europe     bitnet: [email protected]  From [email protected] Sun Feb 12 22:49:12 1995 Status: RO Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (TP Uschanov) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.rock-n-roll.oldies,rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.collecting,rec.music.classical.recordings,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.misc Subject: RFD: rec.collecting.recordings Followup-To: news.groups Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:23:24 -0500 Organization: joensuu.fi Lines: 99 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: is1.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6289 news.groups:134128 alt.rock-n-roll.oldies:11651 rec.antiques.radio+phono:4337 rec.collecting:36296 rec.music.classical.recordings:3472 rec.music.marketplace:29108 rec.music.misc:171875  REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) ============================          Newsgroup Name: rec.collecting.recordings                 Status: unmoderated           Distribution: world                Summary: Discussion and debate on issues of interest to                         record collectors and those interested in buying,                         selling and trading phonograph records.           Submitted by: T. P. Uschanov <[email protected]>                                        <[email protected]>   This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup rec.collecting.recordings.  Follow up to news.groups please.  CHARTER =======  rec.collecting.recordings is intended to be an unmoderated newsgroup for buying, selling, trading, and exchange of information, ideas and opinions regarding sound recordings and collecting them, mainly vinyl albums and singles, but not excluding 78 rpm records, tapes (also of recordings never released on disc, or commercially at all) or compact discs of older or rare material.  Topics of discussion will include but are not limited to:  * Buying                           * Restoration, storage and preservation * Selling                          * Research * Trading discs and tapes of them  * Reviews of books on and re-issues of * Queries about the values,          vintage music   provenance and authenticity      * Queries about the recommendability of   of unfamiliar recordings           recordings and dealers of them  The discussions will be in English.   RATIONALE =========  After the period of the alleged 'demise' of vinyl records caused by the introduction of the compact disc, there is now an increasing interest in analog sound carriers from the past and the present, and the interest has never been low, as the popularity of specialist magazines such as _Goldmine_ and _DISCoveries_ shows.  There are currently several newsgroups in which discussion of records takes place, but none of them is quite what is needed.  alt.rock-n-roll.classic and alt.rock-n-roll.oldies are for all kinds of discussion on 'classic' rock and music of the 1950s and 1960s, respectively.  rec.antiques.radio+phono is mainly for technical questions of radios and phonographs, and the records sometimes discussed there are invariably 78 rpm.  rec.collecting is a forum for collectors, but it is too large and varied to justify the idea of doing the record collecting discussion there.  Then there is rec.music.marketplace.  Various initiatives for a group for vinyl records have been made there in recent months by readers not interested in the majority of the postings there concerning compact discs of contemporary pop music and musical instruments, and in late 1994 I submitted a RFD for a group named rec.collecting.records.  Owing to communication breakdowns and also partly the holiday season, a Call for Votes (CFV) never appeared, despite considerable support for the group.  A while ago I communicated with Big 7 administrators who suggested a new RFD with a slightly modified name and charter -- this including recorded sound in its all forms.  The majority of postings is however expected to come from collectors of vinyl records of popular and classical music.  A proposal that compacts discs be excluded got some support from commentators on the RFD for rec.collecting.records, but I feel that it would be increasingly artificial in these days when CDs gain more and more ground in collecting older music, judging by, for example, their coverage in record collecting magazines. Following another suggestion by some older collectors and restricting the group to 78 rpm records would restrict the group's appeal and traffic even more -- and rec.antiques.radio+phono and the 78-L mailing list are already available for those who concentrate on them.   This RFD will be posted on the following newsgroups:          news.groups         news.announce.newgroups         alt.rock-n-roll.oldies         rec.antiques.radio+phono         rec.collecting 	rec.music.classical.recordings         rec.music.marketplace         rec.music.misc   The discussion will be held in news.groups. The discussion will start February 10, 1995, and will last for three weeks, until March 3, 1995. If there is enough interest in the newsgroup, a Call for Votes (CFV) will be posted shortly after the end of the discussion period. The voting will be conducted by an neutral third party.  To get more information on newsgroup creation, please refer to the article "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" usually found on news.announce.newsgroups.  T. P. Uschanov [email protected] [email protected]  From T  Wed May 31 02:03:00 PDT 1995 From: T P Uschanov <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.misc,rec.music.market place,rec.music.cd,rec.collecting,rec.antiques.radio+phono,alt.rock-n-roll Subject: RFD: rec.music.collecting.* and rec.music.marketplace reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 30 May 1995 16:28:07 -0400 Organization: joensuu.fi Lines: 136 Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: newshost.marcam.com news.announce.newgroups:6939 news.groups:151545 rec.m usic.misc:180094 rec.music.marketplace:37254 rec.music.cd:57671 rec.collecting: 43955 rec.antiques.radio+phono:7746 alt.rock-n-roll:81425                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)              unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.vinyl   unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)              unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.misc             unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.vinyl               unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.cd unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)  Proponents:     T P Uschanov <[email protected]>                 Lazlo Nibble <[email protected]>                 Tapio Keihanen <[email protected]>  * THIS IS NOT A CALL FOR VOTES * * PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE BEFORE RESPONDING *  PROPOSAL -------- The creation of a subhierarchy for discussion of record collecting as a hobby (rec.music.collecting.*) and the division of rec.music.marketplace into format-specific groups.  These two proposals are closely related in theme, form, and intended audience, so they are being proposed together, to wit:      CREATE rec.music.collecting.vinyl     RENAME rec.music.cd to rec.music.collecting.cd     CREATE rec.music.collecting.misc      CREATE rec.music.marketplace.vinyl     CREATE rec.music.marketplace.cd     RENAME rec.music.marketplace to rec.music.marketplace.misc  This proposal will undergo discussion in news.groups for 21 days after the first posting of this announcement, to be followed by a Call For Votes (CFV) on the proposal.  *All* discussion of this proposal must take place in news.groups; to follow and participate in the discussion you must read that group.  This RFD is initially being posted to the following newsgroups:      news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, rec.music.misc,     rec.music.marketplace, rec.music.cd, rec.collecting,     rec.antiques.radio+phono, alt.rock-n-roll  RATIONALE --------- There is significant demand for a place on the net where collectors of vinyl LPs, singles, and other releases can discuss the format without being "drowned out" by unrelated postings.  rec.music.collecting.vinyl will fill that niche, and rec.music.collecting.cd is, we feel, an appropriate counterpart.  (More about r.m.c.cd below.)  There has also been significant support for discussion of pre-LP collecting (78s, wax cylinders, etc.); a .misc group is therefore proposed to hold that and other non-CD/vinyl discussion.  It should also be kept in mind that despite its technical nature, rec.antiques.radio+phono would welcome posts about pre-LP records.  rec.music.marketplace is long overdue for a split; many people interested in buying music over the net prefer one of the two primary formats (vinyl and CDs) over the other.  There have been many complaints from collectors of one format about having to "wade through" postings selling the other. We believe that the natural dividing line for a split is .cd/.vinyl/.misc, as proposed.  rec.music.cd is at the heart of both aspects of the proposal; the group was created in the early days of the format, when compact discs were something special rather than the default format that they have become today.  The newsgroup is devolving into a catch-all for general music discussion, and in our opinion less than half of the group's current traffic belongs there.  People tend to post general comments about the latest releases there, simply because they happen to be available on CD. A recent check of the news spool at rt66.com revealed that the 275 messages available on the machine at the time broke down roughly as follows:     40%  CD-specific discussion (CD clubs, availability/quality questions,         etc.)    30%  Wanted/Forsale postings (officially off-topic since the creation         of rec.music.marketplace)    30%  Off-topic messages ("who sings this," "tell me more bands like ",         general discussion of artists/music, etc. appropriate for         rec.music.misc and other more specific rec.music.* and alt.music.*         groups)  In our opinion the creation of CD-specific groups for collecting and marketplace topics will help bring the noise level down.  CD-specific discussion would go to rec.music.collecting.cd, wanted/forsale postings would go to rec.music.marketplace.cd, and off-topic messages would be (we hope) discouraged by the two groups' more specific names.  CHARTERS --------     rec.music.collecting.cd         Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of audio compact discs.         Postings belong here only if they have some direct bearing on the         CD format -- the mere availability on CD of a given release is *not*         sufficient reason to discuss it here, unless the item is only         available on CD, a CD reissue, has CD-only features, etc.  The         group is also not for discussion of musical quality, how much you         like an album, and so forth, as none of these questions are specific         to the CD format.  Wanted and for-sale postings are off-charter here         and should be directed to the most appropriate rec.music.marketplace         group.      rec.music.collecting.vinyl         Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of vinyl LPs, singles,         and related recording formats.  Wanted and for-sale postings are         off-charter here and should be directed to the most appropriate         rec.music.marketplace group.      rec.music.collecting.misc         Discussion of music-collecting issues for which there is no more         specific rec.music.collecting newsgroup.  Wanted and for-sale         postings are off-charter here and should be directed to the most         appropriate rec.music.marketplace group.      rec.music.marketplace.vinyl         Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on vinyl (LPs, 7"/12"         singles, and so forth).  Such postings belong in this group *only*,         both so that people interested in the material can find it and so         those who wish to avoid such postings can do so easily.  Posters         are encouraged to be as specific as possible in their subject lines.      rec.music.marketplace.cd         Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on compact disc.         Such postings belong in this group *only*, both so that people         interested in the material can find it and so those who wish to         avoid such postings can do so easily.  Posters are encouraged to         be as specific as possible in their subject lines.      rec.music.marketplace to rec.music.marketplace.misc         Postings offering music-related merchandise (recordings, memorabilia)         for which no more specific .marketplace group exists.  Note that         rec.music.MAKERS.marketplace and its subgroups exist for the sale         of instruments and gear; those postings are off-topic here.  Comments about this proposal should be posted to news.groups and/or mailed to the proponents. From [email protected] Mon Jul 24 18:09:01 1995 Path: uunet!in1.uu.net!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.misc,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.cd,rec.collecting,rec.antiques.radio+phono,alt.music.alternative,alt.rock-n-roll Subject: CFV: rec.music.{collecting,marketplace} reorganization Followup-To: poster Date: 20 Jul 1995 22:12:24 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 161 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 11 Aug 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7190 news.groups:160288 rec.music.misc:184034 rec.music.marketplace:41789 rec.music.cd:59570 rec.collecting:48554 rec.antiques.radio+phono:9475 alt.music.alternative:220874 alt.rock-n-roll:84106                        FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)   unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)              unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.misc              unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.vinyl               unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.cd unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)             unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.vinyl  Newsgroups lines: rec.music.collecting.cd	Compact discs of collector value. rec.music.collecting.misc	Music collecting other than vinyl or CD. rec.music.collecting.vinyl	Collecting vinyl records. rec.music.marketplace.cd	Buying and selling collectible compact discs. rec.music.marketplace.misc	Buying and selling non-vinyl/CD music. rec.music.marketplace.vinyl	Buying and selling collectible vinyl records.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Aug 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact T P Uschanov <[email protected]> or Lazlo Nibble <[email protected]>.  RATIONALE  There is significant demand for a place on the net where collectors of vinyl LPs, singles, and other releases can discuss the format without being "drowned out" by unrelated postings.  rec.music.collecting.vinyl will fill that niche, and rec.music.collecting.cd is, we feel, an appropriate counterpart.  (More about r.m.c.cd below.)  There has also been significant support for discussion of pre-LP collecting (78s, wax cylinders, etc.); a .misc group is therefore proposed to hold that and other non-CD/vinyl discussion.  rec.music.marketplace is long overdue for a split; many people interested in buying music over the net prefer one of the two primary formats (vinyl and CDs) over the other.  There have been many complaints from collectors of one format about having to "wade through" postings selling the other. We believe that the natural dividing line for a split is .cd/.vinyl/.misc, as proposed.  rec.music.cd is at the heart of both aspects of the proposal; the group was created in the early days of the format, when compact discs were something special rather than the default format that they have become today.  The newsgroup is devolving into a catch-all for general music discussion, and in our opinion less than half of the group's current traffic belongs there.  People tend to post general comments about the latest releases there, simply because they happen to be available on CD. A recent check of the news spool at rt66.com revealed that the 275 messages available on the machine at the time broke down roughly as follows:     40%  CD-specific discussion (CD clubs, availability/quality questions, 	etc.)    30%  Wanted/Forsale postings (officially off-topic since the creation 	of rec.music.marketplace)    30%  Off-topic messages ("who sings this," "tell me more bands like ", 	general discussion of artists/music belonging to rec.music.misc 	and/or specific rec.music.* and alt.music.* groups, etc.)  In our opinion the creation of CD-specific groups for collecting and marketplace topics will help bring the noise level down.  CD-specific discussion would go to rec.music.collecting.cd, wanted/forsale postings would go to rec.music.marketplace.cd, and off-topic messages would be (we hope) discouraged by the two groups' more specific names.  CHARTERS      rec.music.collecting.cd 	Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of audio compact discs. 	Postings belong here only if they have some direct bearing on the 	CD format -- the mere availability on CD of a given release is *not* 	sufficient reason to discuss it here, unless the item is only 	available on CD, a CD reissue, has CD-only features, etc.  The 	group is also not for discussion of musical quality, how much you 	like an album, and so forth, as none of these questions are specific 	to the CD format.  Wanted and for-sale postings are off-charter here 	and should be directed to the most appropriate rec.music.marketplace 	group.      rec.music.collecting.vinyl 	Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of vinyl LPs, singles, 	and related recording formats.  Wanted and for-sale postings are 	off-charter here and should be directed to the most appropriate 	rec.music.marketplace group.      rec.music.collecting.misc 	Discussion of music-collecting issues for which there is no more 	specific rec.music.collecting newsgroup.  Wanted and for-sale 	postings are off-charter here and should be directed to the most 	appropriate rec.music.marketplace group.      rec.music.marketplace.vinyl 	Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on vinyl (LPs, 7"/12" 	singles, and so forth).  Such postings belong in this group *only*, 	both so that people interested in the material can find it and so 	those who wish to avoid such postings can do so easily.  Posters 	are encouraged to be as specific as possible in their subject lines, 	including a description of the genre and/or artists involved. 	Messages offering the same items from the same seller should not be 	posted more often than once a week.      rec.music.marketplace.cd 	Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on compact disc. 	Such postings belong in this group *only*, both so that people 	interested in the material can find it and so those who wish to 	avoid such postings can do so easily.  Posters are encouraged to 	be as specific as possible in their subject lines, including a 	description of the genre and/or artists involved.  Messages offering 	the same items from the same seller should not be posted more often 	than once a week.      rec.music.marketplace to rec.music.marketplace.misc 	Postings offering music-related merchandise (recordings, memorabilia) 	for which no more specific .marketplace group exists.  Note that 	rec.music.MAKERS.marketplace and its subgroups exist for the sale 	of instruments and gear; those postings are off-topic here.  HOW TO VOTE  You must send MAIL to [email protected]  (Posting in a newsgroup does not constitute a vote.)  Just replying to this article should work unless you are reading it on a mailing list, but please check the TO address.  Please remove text before the marker line below.  Voting mail is archived by the votetakers, and hundreds of copies of the entire CFV wastes space.  Type your vote of YES or NO for each group on the line for that group. If you do not wish to vote for a group, simply leave that line alone. You need not worry about quoting characters which your mailer inserts. Please type YES or NO, not Y, N, or X.  The votes are tabulated by a program, and a valid vote is defined as the word YES or NO on the same line as the name of the group.  You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.  -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- rec.music.collecting/marketplace reorg  (Don't remove this marker)  Please give your real name here:  [Your Vote]  Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd) [         ]  rec.music.collecting.misc [         ]  rec.music.collecting.vinyl [         ]  rec.music.marketplace.cd [         ]  rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace) [         ]  rec.music.marketplace.vinyl -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  This CFV will be sent to the following mailing lists: BLUES-L <[email protected]> BOMP-L <[email protected]> 78-L <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Thu Jul 27 20:25:37 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.misc,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.cd,rec.collecting,rec.antiques.radio+phono,alt.music.alternative,alt.rock-n-roll Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.music.{collecting,marketplace} reorganization Followup-To: poster Date: 28 Jul 1995 00:25:08 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 166 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 11 Aug 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: rec.music.marketplace-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7232 news.groups:161625 rec.music.misc:184515 rec.music.marketplace:42396 rec.music.cd:59755 rec.collecting:49204 rec.antiques.radio+phono:9722 alt.music.alternative:222691 alt.rock-n-roll:84318                        LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)   unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)              unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.misc              unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.vinyl               unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.cd unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)             unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.vinyl  Newsgroups lines: rec.music.collecting.cd Compact discs of collector value. rec.music.collecting.misc       Music collecting other than vinyl or CD. rec.music.collecting.vinyl      Collecting vinyl records. rec.music.marketplace.cd        Buying and selling collectible compact discs. rec.music.marketplace.misc      Buying and selling non-vinyl/CD music. rec.music.marketplace.vinyl     Buying and selling collectible vinyl records.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Aug 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact T P Uschanov <[email protected]> or Lazlo Nibble <[email protected]>.  RATIONALE  There is significant demand for a place on the net where collectors of vinyl LPs, singles, and other releases can discuss the format without being "drowned out" by unrelated postings.  rec.music.collecting.vinyl will fill that niche, and rec.music.collecting.cd is, we feel, an appropriate counterpart.  (More about r.m.c.cd below.)  There has also been significant support for discussion of pre-LP collecting (78s, wax cylinders, etc.); a .misc group is therefore proposed to hold that and other non-CD/vinyl discussion.  rec.music.marketplace is long overdue for a split; many people interested in buying music over the net prefer one of the two primary formats (vinyl and CDs) over the other.  There have been many complaints from collectors of one format about having to "wade through" postings selling the other. We believe that the natural dividing line for a split is .cd/.vinyl/.misc, as proposed.  rec.music.cd is at the heart of both aspects of the proposal; the group was created in the early days of the format, when compact discs were something special rather than the default format that they have become today.  The newsgroup is devolving into a catch-all for general music discussion, and in our opinion less than half of the group's current traffic belongs there.  People tend to post general comments about the latest releases there, simply because they happen to be available on CD. A recent check of the news spool at rt66.com revealed that the 275 messages available on the machine at the time broke down roughly as follows:     40%  CD-specific discussion (CD clubs, availability/quality questions,         etc.)    30%  Wanted/Forsale postings (officially off-topic since the creation         of rec.music.marketplace)    30%  Off-topic messages ("who sings this," "tell me more bands like ",         general discussion of artists/music belonging to rec.music.misc         and/or specific rec.music.* and alt.music.* groups, etc.)  In our opinion the creation of CD-specific groups for collecting and marketplace topics will help bring the noise level down.  CD-specific discussion would go to rec.music.collecting.cd, wanted/forsale postings would go to rec.music.marketplace.cd, and off-topic messages would be (we hope) discouraged by the two groups' more specific names.  CHARTERS      rec.music.collecting.cd         Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of audio compact discs.         Postings belong here only if they have some direct bearing on the         CD format -- the mere availability on CD of a given release is *not*         sufficient reason to discuss it here, unless the item is only         available on CD, a CD reissue, has CD-only features, etc.  The         group is also not for discussion of musical quality, how much you         like an album, and so forth, as none of these questions are specific         to the CD format.  Wanted and for-sale postings are off-charter here         and should be directed to the most appropriate rec.music.marketplace         group.      rec.music.collecting.vinyl         Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of vinyl LPs, singles,         and related recording formats.  Wanted and for-sale postings are         off-charter here and should be directed to the most appropriate         rec.music.marketplace group.      rec.music.collecting.misc         Discussion of music-collecting issues for which there is no more         specific rec.music.collecting newsgroup.  Wanted and for-sale         postings are off-charter here and should be directed to the most         appropriate rec.music.marketplace group.      rec.music.marketplace.vinyl         Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on vinyl (LPs, 7"/12"         singles, and so forth).  Such postings belong in this group *only*,         both so that people interested in the material can find it and so         those who wish to avoid such postings can do so easily.  Posters         are encouraged to be as specific as possible in their subject lines,         including a description of the genre and/or artists involved.         Messages offering the same items from the same seller should not be         posted more often than once a week.      rec.music.marketplace.cd         Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on compact disc.         Such postings belong in this group *only*, both so that people         interested in the material can find it and so those who wish to         avoid such postings can do so easily.  Posters are encouraged to         be as specific as possible in their subject lines, including a         description of the genre and/or artists involved.  Messages offering         the same items from the same seller should not be posted more often         than once a week.      rec.music.marketplace to rec.music.marketplace.misc         Postings offering music-related merchandise (recordings, memorabilia)         for which no more specific .marketplace group exists.  Note that         rec.music.MAKERS.marketplace and its subgroups exist for the sale         of instruments and gear; those postings are off-topic here.  HOW TO VOTE  You must send MAIL to [email protected]  (Posting in a newsgroup does not constitute a vote.)  Just replying to this article should work unless you are reading it on a mailing list, but please check the TO address.  Please remove text before the marker line below.  Voting mail is archived by the votetakers, and hundreds of copies of the entire CFV wastes space.  Type your vote of YES or NO for each group on the line for that group. If you do not wish to vote for a group, simply leave that line alone. You need not worry about quoting characters which your mailer inserts. Please type YES or NO, not Y, N, or X.  The votes are tabulated by a program, and a valid vote is defined as the word YES or NO on the same line as the name of the group.  You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.  -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- rec.music.collecting/marketplace reorg  (Don't remove this marker)  Please give your real name here:  [Your Vote]  Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd) [         ]  rec.music.collecting.misc [         ]  rec.music.collecting.vinyl [         ]  rec.music.marketplace.cd [         ]  rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace) [         ]  rec.music.marketplace.vinyl -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  This CFV will be sent to the following mailing lists: BLUES-L <[email protected]> BOMP-L <[email protected]> 78-L <[email protected]>   rec.music.collecting/marketplace reorg Bounce List - No need to revote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                            Eric Fritts  From [email protected] Fri Aug 11 14:54:03 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.misc,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.cd,rec.collecting,rec.antiques.radio+phono,alt.music.alternative,alt.rock-n-roll Subject: RESULT: rec.music.{collecting,marketplace} reorganization passes Followup-To: news.groups Date: 11 Aug 1995 18:53:53 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 284 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: rec.music.marketplace-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7327 news.groups:163883 rec.music.misc:185489 rec.music.marketplace:43631 rec.music.cd:60245 rec.collecting:50614 rec.antiques.radio+phono:10254 alt.music.alternative:226340 alt.rock-n-roll:84851                                  RESULT        unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.cd passes 143:19       unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.misc passes 143:20       unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.vinyl passes 153:16        unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.cd passes 146:17       unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.misc passes 143:23      unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.vinyl passes 151:18   Yes   No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------  143   19 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)  143   20 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.music.collecting.misc  153   16 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.music.collecting.vinyl  146   17 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.music.marketplace.cd  143   23 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)  151   18 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : rec.music.marketplace.vinyl  For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.  There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.  If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the groups shortly thereafter.  Newsgroups lines: rec.music.collecting.cd Compact discs of collector value. rec.music.collecting.misc       Music collecting other than vinyl or CD. rec.music.collecting.vinyl      Collecting vinyl records. rec.music.marketplace.cd        Buying and selling collectible compact discs. rec.music.marketplace.misc      Buying and selling non-vinyl/CD music. rec.music.marketplace.vinyl     Buying and selling collectible vinyl records.  Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Aug 1995.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact T P Uschanov <[email protected]> or Lazlo Nibble <[email protected]>.  CHARTER: rec.music.collecting.cd          Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of audio compact discs.         Postings belong here only if they have some direct bearing on the         CD format -- the mere availability on CD of a given release is *not*         sufficient reason to discuss it here, unless the item is only         available on CD, a CD reissue, has CD-only features, etc.  The         group is also not for discussion of musical quality, how much you         like an album, and so forth, as none of these questions are specific         to the CD format.  Wanted and for-sale postings are off-charter here         and should be directed to the most appropriate rec.music.marketplace         group.  CHARTER: rec.music.collecting.vinyl          Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of vinyl LPs, singles,         and related recording formats.  Wanted and for-sale postings are         off-charter here and should be directed to the most appropriate         rec.music.marketplace group.  CHARTER: rec.music.collecting.misc          Discussion of music-collecting issues for which there is no more         specific rec.music.collecting newsgroup.  Wanted and for-sale         postings are off-charter here and should be directed to the most         appropriate rec.music.marketplace group.  CHARTER: rec.music.marketplace.vinyl          Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on vinyl (LPs, 7"/12"         singles, and so forth).  Such postings belong in this group *only*,         both so that people interested in the material can find it and so         those who wish to avoid such postings can do so easily.  Posters         are encouraged to be as specific as possible in their subject lines,         including a description of the genre and/or artists involved.         Messages offering the same items from the same seller should not be         posted more often than once a week.  CHARTER: rec.music.marketplace.cd          Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on compact disc.         Such postings belong in this group *only*, both so that people         interested in the material can find it and so those who wish to         avoid such postings can do so easily.  Posters are encouraged to         be as specific as possible in their subject lines, including a         description of the genre and/or artists involved.  Messages offering         the same items from the same seller should not be posted more often         than once a week.  CHARTER: rec.music.marketplace.misc          Postings offering music-related merchandise (recordings, memorabilia)         for which no more specific .marketplace group exists.  Note that         rec.music.MAKERS.marketplace and its subgroups exist for the sale         of instruments and gear; those postings are off-topic here.  rec.music.collecting/marketplace reorg Final Vote Ack                                            rec.music.marketplace.vinyl --------+          rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace) -------+|                                             rec.music.marketplace.cd ------+||                                           rec.music.collecting.vinyl -----+|||                                            rec.music.collecting.misc ----+||||                      rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd) ---+|||||                                                                         |||||| @VM1.NYSED.GOV:[email protected]                             Tom Schoeck NYYNYY [email protected]                                   Art Schuna YYYYYY [email protected]                                            Frank Uhle YYYYYY [email protected]                                    Jonathan Adair YYYYYY [email protected]                       Andreas Wiethoff YYYYYY [email protected]                                         Andrew Fabbro -N--N- [email protected]                                         Andreas Huennebeck Y-YY-Y [email protected]                                             Alan Cohen YYYYYY [email protected]                                             A. Muncaster YYYYYY [email protected]                                             Ken Kapson YYYYYY [email protected]                                             S Thygesen YYYYYY [email protected]                                          Andy Latto YYYYYY [email protected]                                     Jonathan Crawford -YYYYY [email protected]                                                Alan Book YYYYYY [email protected]                                        Adam Stanley Y-YY-Y [email protected]                             Weldon T. Toms YYYYYY [email protected]                                               Bill Brent --YY-Y [email protected]                                       William Brent --YY-Y [email protected]                         Richard Beckwith YYYYYY [email protected]                                              Bill Burns YYYYYY [email protected]                                              Bill Wilner YYYYYY [email protected]                                                        -Y--Y- [email protected]                                Benjamin Lukoff YYYYYY [email protected]                                        Brian Phillips YYYYYY [email protected]                                  Brian McAllister YYYYYY [email protected]                                            Bruce Moore YYYYYY [email protected]                   Bernard W Schrader -----Y [email protected]                                            Kjetil Bull --Y-YY [email protected]                                D. L. Mosher NNN-N- [email protected]                    Curtis Desjardins YYYYYY [email protected]                         Carl Ratner ([email protected]) NNNNNN [email protected]                                     Chris Mezzolesta YYYYYY [email protected]                                         Clive Jones --Y--Y [email protected]                                    Mika Katara  YYYYYY [email protected]                        Corbin Krug --Y--Y [email protected]                             Jim Hall YYYYYY [email protected]                                 Craig Hobson YYYYYY [email protected]                                        Michiel Wijers NNNNNN [email protected]                                             David Ball  YYYYYY [email protected]                                  Daniel Brown [Guest YYYYYY [email protected]                                                       YYYYYY [email protected]                                        david frame --Y--Y [email protected]                                            Dan Hartung YYYYYY [email protected]                                      Uncle Wilsci YYYYYY [email protected]                                     Tapio Keihdnen YYYYYY [email protected]                                                  DAN CLEGG YYYYYY [email protected]                               Derek Langsford YYYYYY [email protected]                                 Bill Mossman YYYYYY [email protected]                                  Doug Peterson YYYYYY [email protected]                   Dragan Hranisavljevic YYYYYY [email protected]                                       David Wright YYYYYY [email protected]                                             Juha Vainio YYYYYY [email protected]                                     EDSON MISAO FURUITI YYYYYY [email protected]                                         Andrew Russ ---NNN [email protected]                                               fernando YYYYYY [email protected]                                    Frank Schlueter  YY-YY- [email protected]                                              Gabe Wiener YYYYYY [email protected]                                           Curt Corzine YYYYYY [email protected]                                     Scott Galuska YYYYYY [email protected]                                             Gary Littleton YYYYYY [email protected]                                        Gene Spinelli YYYYYY [email protected]                                             JOHN MANDEL YYYY-- [email protected]                                           Gary M. Gettier YYYYYY [email protected]                                       george gardner YYYYYY [email protected]                                          Howard Sanner YYYYYY [email protected]                                      Helge Haugland YYNYYN [email protected]                                                    YYYYYY [email protected]                                     Barett McGavock NNNNNN [email protected]                                        Howard Kamentsky YYYYYY [email protected]                                          Dan Hoey NNNYNN [email protected]                                         Aaron Zollman YYYNNN [email protected]                            Andreas Ihm YYYYYY [email protected]                                             Andy Gorham YYYYYY [email protected]                      James Alexander Chokey -YYYYY [email protected]                                   Jon Clements YYYYYY [email protected]                          jeff murphy NNNNNN [email protected]                                       J.D. Falk YYYYYY [email protected]                                          Jim Jewett Y---Y- [email protected]                                       Jason Luck YYYYYY [email protected]                                      James McGarry YYYYYY [email protected]                                                 YYYYYY [email protected]                                            james sevier YYYYYY [email protected]                                        Johan De Vis YYYYYY [email protected]                                           John Cody YYYYYY [email protected]                                            Trevor Tymchuk YYYYYY [email protected]                                      Haney Jones YYYYYY [email protected]                                                      YYYYYY [email protected]                                 Sudish Joseph YYYYYY [email protected]                                               Jeff Shaw YYYYYY [email protected]                                     John Yeung YYYYYY [email protected]                           Jonathan Young (MCOM) YYYYYY [email protected]                                   Christopher Kakkos NNYNNY [email protected]                                        Karen E. Isaacson YNYYNY [email protected]                                                   ken drew YYYYYY [email protected]                                              Tim Klein YYYYYY [email protected]                                        Ken Norris  YYYYYY [email protected]                                          Reto Koradi YYYYYY [email protected]                                     Ken Josenhans YYYYYY [email protected]                                 Kurt Guttenberg YYYYYY [email protected]                                Lars Christensen YYYYYY [email protected]                                              Lance Chun YYNYYN [email protected]                                             Lazlo Nibble YYYYYY [email protected]                                      James Leftwich YY-YYY [email protected]                                   Lennart Hedenstr|m YYYYYY [email protected]                               Lennart Benschop YYYYYY [email protected]                           Martin Schr"oder YYYYYY [email protected]                                                 Y-Y--- [email protected]                                    Marc Noorcroft NNNNNN [email protected]                                       Marc Dashevsky YYYYYY [email protected]                              Edward McGraw (64524) YYYYYY [email protected]                                         Marc Nathan YYYYYY [email protected]                              Mitchell Drumm YYYYYY [email protected]                                Shahrukh Merchant YYYYYY [email protected]                                              MIKE NOBLE YYYYYY [email protected]                         Hamish Hubbard NYYNNN [email protected]                                          M Mike Taksar YN--Y- [email protected]                                              Paul Motsuk YYYYYY [email protected]                                        Warren Lapham YYYYYY [email protected]                                             Mark London YYYYYY [email protected]                                          Merrill Tritt YYYYYY [email protected]                                          Nils M Eriksson YYYYYY [email protected]                                         Norm Katuna -YY-YY [email protected]                                           Norman Nithman YYYNNN [email protected]                                           Oscar Hall YYYYNY omeg[email protected]                                          Osku Sneits YYYYYY [email protected]                                              david parsons NNNYNY [email protected]                                    Pat M. Walsh YYYYYY [email protected]                            paul.kaczmarec YYYYYY [email protected]                                     Paul E. Piacentini --Y--Y [email protected]                                    Peter O'Neill YYYYYY [email protected]                                    Price Charles YYYYYY [email protected]                                         Pete Bastien NN-NNN [email protected]                                 Richard Holliday YYYYYY [email protected]                                         Jeff Gaines YYYYYY [email protected]                                    Roger Donahue Y-YY-Y [email protected]                                         Richard Miller YYYYYY [email protected]                                                fragile YYYYYY [email protected]                                    R.Lambooij YYYYYY [email protected]                                     Robert L. Edwards NNNNNN [email protected]                               Ollivier Robert NNNNNN [email protected]                                 Roland Beutler YYYYYY [email protected]                                               RoseBear YYYYYY [email protected]                                    Jeffrey Rufinus YYYYYY [email protected]                                       Richard Wolkoff YYYYYY [email protected]                                Richard Yen YYYYYY [email protected]                                         Marc Salvatori YYYYYY [email protected]                                     Saul Smaizys YYYYYY [email protected]                               John M. Schepers --Y--Y [email protected]                          M. Scott Hurt YYYYYY [email protected]                                   D. A. Scocca YYYYYY [email protected]                                Jeffrey M. Scoville NNNYYY [email protected]                                     Scott Rossman NNYYYY [email protected]                                             Steve Summit ----N- [email protected]                                     Eric Fritts YYYYYY [email protected]                                    Dave Sommer YYYYYY [email protected]                                    Peter Butterfield YYYYYY [email protected]                                           Dwight Brown NNNNNN [email protected]                                    Scott Timperley YYYYYY [email protected]                                John W. Stuart YYYYYY [email protected]                                           Tom Bessoir YYYYYY [email protected]                                         Tom Day YYYYYY [email protected]                     Technical Intelligence-MN-USA YYYYYY [email protected]                                           Tom Ritchford YYYYYY [email protected]                           Jan Tommy Gravdahl YYYYYY [email protected]                                   trisha pena YYYYYY [email protected]                                      Thomas Wright YYYYYY [email protected]                                            t.langford -YY-YY [email protected]                                             Sheri Hurt YYYYYY [email protected]                                     T P Uschanov YYYYYY [email protected]                        Uwe Glaessner YYYYYY [email protected]                                      Hank van Cleef YYYYYY [email protected]                                             Jay Greenwald YYYYYY [email protected]                                        Pat Waara NNNNNN [email protected]                                  Risto Widenius NNNNNN [email protected]                                 Christopher Barrus YYYYYY [email protected]                                          Steve Ward YYYYYY [email protected]                                        Sergey Ukladov YYYYYY [email protected]                                Mari Johanna Seppd YYYYYY [email protected]                              Bill Jennings YYYYY-