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From [email protected] Wed Aug 14 13:49:06 1996 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Bob Atkins <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,,,,, Subject: RFD: reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 14 Aug 1996 17:48:52 -0000 Organization: . Lines: 232 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: Archive-Name: Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:9054 news.groups:225822                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)                   moderated group unmoderated group (renames            unmoderated group  Newsgroups line:	Photo announcements, FAQs, lists. (Moderated)	Private ads - No dealers or discussions.	Questions and comments - No ads.  This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroups and, and the world-wide moderated Usenet newsgroup (moderated). This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.  RATIONALE:  RATIONALE:  The marketplace group, intended only for personal ads, has become disrupted by many discussion threads on general marketplace issues, such as where to buy equipment, how to price equipment, how to do transactions safely etc. Clearly there is a need for a group in which these discussions can take place without disrupting the original marketplace group. The volume of off-charter traffic in the current marketplace groups clearly shows user demand for a discussion group. It is therefore proposed that the current group be split into two news groups, one to carry all the advertising posts (private, not commercial ads) and the other to carry the discussions about general marketplace issues. It is proposed that the current be renamed to ads, and that a new named be created  RATIONALE:  With so many groups (14+, depending on the outcome of this RFD) there is no obvious place to post general announcements, like lists of mailing lists, lists of FAQS, or even general FAQs themselves. A group would provide a single group to which readers could look for pointers to information, or the information itself. Clearly such a group would be open to abuse (SPAM, advertising, off topic posts and the like) and the intended information distribution could be swamped by other postings if the group is not moderated. Therefore the group is proposed as a moderated newsgroup, along the lines of news.announce.newusers for example. Certain "key" posts (such as the group charters and posting guidelines) could be posted on a regular basis without being lost in a sea of other postings. "Regular" in this context would mean no more frequently than once per week and no less frequently than once per month. Should anyone wish to take on the task of, for example, compiling a list of personal web page URLs of posters, such a list could be posted to the group on a regular basis. Also, should someone wish to compile a list of URLs or email addresses of commercial photo businesses, again such a list could be posted to this group. Regular posting of a list of such information would ensure that everyone has a chance to see it and the information will always be available since it will be reposted before it expires on most systems (again, see news.announce.newusers for an example of the way in which this group is intended to function).  CHARTER:  ALL discussions of marketplace issues should be posted to this group, and *NOT* to Such discussions may include, but are not limited to, requests for help in pricing equipment, requests for "honesty" references, posting of on-line transaction experiences and requests for advice on how best to conduct "on-line" transactions. Encoded or raw binary postings are not permitted in this group. Commercial advertising of any kind is prohibited in this group. All private forsale/wanted ads must be posted to, and not to this group. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).  END CHARTER.  CHARTER:  ALL forsale and wanted ads must be posted to this group and only to this group.  These posting will be restricted to the private sale of personally owned and used equipment. This newsgroup specifically does *not* permit commercial advertising, postings by dealers selling or soliciting equipment, or postings by amateurs regularly dealing in used equipment principally or incidentally for purposes of financial gain. It is intended as a forum in which photographers can buy, sell and trade equipment in connection with their *individual* photographic interests. Postings which receive no replies should *NOT* be reposted for at least one week after the initial posting and should not be repeatedly reposted without material change. Replies (other than factual corrections) should be sent *only* by email and *never* posted in Advertisers should include a telephone number if possible in case there are problems with email connections (and email problems are not unusual!). Encoded or raw binary postings are not permitted in this group. Commercial advertising of any kind is prohibited in this group. It is strongly suggested that users choose appropriate subject lines to permit easy searches. For example, large-format posts should contain the keywords "large format" or "LF". Medium format posts should have subject lines containing the keywords "medium format" or "MF". Other appropriate keywords might be "35mm", "Canon EOS", "tripod" etc. Uninformative subject lines such as "Stuff for sale" should be avoided. All discussions of marketplace issues should be posted to, and not to this group. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).  END CHARTER.  CHARTER:  This group is a moderated group. Postings must be of the nature of a general announcement, FAQ or list of resources of interest to the groups. Commercial announcements will not be permitted. Discussions will not be permitted in this group (discussions *about* the group should take place in  This group will not carry individual postings of URLs and email contact addresses for photo resource companies, however the group will carry lists of such information provided that someone creates, updates, maintains and submits such lists to the newsgroup. The moderator may take on this function, but is not required to do so by this charter.  The group moderator(s) will attempt process postings in a timely manner, but the group is intended a a source of "timeless" information and so postings will normally be made on receipt of submissions, but rather on a daily or weekly basis, as dictated by traffic volume and the urgency of the material.  Postings requiring urgent attention should be clearly marked as such and the moderator will attempt to forward them to the group as rapidly as possible if they are appropriate for the group.  Postings to should not normally be widely crossposted to other groups. The moderator(s) has the option to reject widely crossposted postings submitted to the group, but is not required to do so. Postings crossposted to *all* other groups will not be accepted unless they are official postings such as group RFDs or CFVs . Postings appearing in multiple other groups (i.e. not crossposted, but posted individually to each group) will *not* be accepted.  The moderator(s) may require that postings be formatted in a given manner in order to facilitate the moderation process or in the automated development of lists. If this is done, the required formatting information will be posted in the group on a regular basis.  The moderator may require that some postings (e.g. the URLs of personal web pages) be submitted to a list organizer (an email address will be given) rather than directly to the group. The list organizer will collect such submissions, develop the list and submit it to the group at regular intervals.  All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).  In the event that there is a group opinion that the group moderator(s) should be replaced, this will be decided by a group vote. In any such vote, a minimum of 100 votes will be required and the result of the vote will be determined by a simple majority. In the event of a tie, a vote to remove a moderator will be taken as passed (i.e. the moderator will be removed by a 50/50 vote).  Replacement or additional moderators must be approved by a group vote of a minimum of 100 total votes and the vote will be determined by a simple majority. In the event of a tie, the proposal will fail (i.e. a moderator will not be elected by a 50/50 vote)  The group moderator(s) may appoint temporary replacements for a period of no longer than 2 months to cover absence by illness, vacation or other short term events which prevent the moderator(s) from attending to the task of group moderation.  Election and removal of moderators may take place at any time. Voting will be conducted by a neutral 3rd party when ever possible, such as the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO:  Moderator: Bob Atkins <[email protected]> Moderator: Pete Bergstrom <[email protected]>  Bob Atkins wrote the previous RFDs (and this one), and is a regular contibutor to the groups.  Pete Bergstrom is the current moderator of and knows the ins and outs of group moderation.  END MODERATOR INFO.  PROCEDURE:  This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.  All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.  This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process.  DISTRIBUTION:  This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:  news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,,,,,,,,,,,,,  Proponent: Bob Atkins <[email protected]> --  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Atkins <[email protected]> or <[email protected]> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
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