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General ( rec.ham-radio )
 
From [email protected] Mon Sep 27 10:23:35 1993
Flags: 000000000201
Path: lear
From: Jay Maynard <[email protected]>
Subject: CALL FOR VOTES: reorganization of rec.ham-radio.*
Date: Sun,  6 Jan 91 23:51:50 PST
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.ham-radio.packet
Followup-to: news.groups
Keywords: posted

This is a formal call for votes for the proposed reorganization of
rec.ham-radio.*. The discussion period started on December 4, 1990, and
has run for just over the required 30 days (extended from the original
ending time of 31 December 1990 due to the Christmas and New Year's
holidays). Please read this entire posting before sending in your
vote; the ballot to be used is at the end.

THE PROPOSAL:
=============
The following groups are to be renamed:
rec.ham-radio        => rec.radio.amateur.misc
rec.ham-radio.packet => rec.radio.amateur.packet
rec.ham-radio.swap   => rec.radio.swap
Groups will be renamed by creating the replacement group, asking site
admins to alias the old group to the new one, and rmgrouping the old
group after traffic in it has died down, hopefully about a month later.
This method has been shown to work in other hierarchies.

The following groups are to be created:
rec.radio.amateur.policy
This group is intended to contain any and all discussion about policy
issues pertaining to amateur radio, including, but not limited to,
rules, regulations, laws, and legal actions by and against amateur
radio operators.  This group is to be unmoderated.

rec.radio.cb
This group is intended to contain discussions related to Citizens'
Band radio.  This group will be unmoderated.

RATIONALE:
==========
1. Why move the groups at all? The primary motivation is to make it
easier for interested people to find newsgroups related to ham radio.
The rec.radio hierarchy was created after rec.ham-radio (net.ham-radio
before the Great Renaming). It is an inconsistency in the namespace to
have groups for similar purposes separated from each other, and that
makes it harder for new users to find the desired groups. Further,
this allows a change from ham radio to amateur radio (see next topic).

2. Why .amateur instead of .ham? It has been pointed out in discussion
that "ham radio" is primarily an American term, and carries little
meaning outside the US. In addition, there are negative connotations
attached to "ham" that don't apply to "amateur". Some confusion also
exists in the public mind about just what a "ham radio operator" is,
as evidenced by the occasional "ham operator jams aircraft
frequencies!" when the person in question has never been a licensed
amateur radio operator.

3. Why a .policy group? A significant part of the traffic in
rec.ham-radio is concerned with issues of policy. This includes
substantially all of the flamage, which has in the recent past
included such subjects as whether or not it's legal to order a pizza
via an amateur repeater, the proposal to add a class of license that
does not require knowledge of the International Morse Code, and the
legality of modifying amateur equipment to transmit outside the
amateur bands.  The new group is intended to move the flames and the
long discussions that never seem to get anywhere out of the main
group.

4. Why use the name .policy, instead of .rules, .regs, .regulations,
etc.?  The group is intended to contain any and all discussion about
any policy issues pertaining to amateur radio. This includes not just
rules and regulations of the FCC and other national regulatory bodies,
but also laws affecting hams (such as the infamous New Jersey scanner
law), lawsuits over nuisance issues, antenna ordinances, frequency
coordination and band planning, and the like. .policy is the best name
that has been suggested for the group out of many possibilities.

5. Why not a .tech group? There are two reasons for this one. The
first is that there's more to ham radio that's non-inflammatory than
just technical discussions, and the object of a new group is to move
the flames, not run away from them. A .tech group would leave those of
us who are interested in more than just technical discussions, yet not
in the seemingly endless legal discussions, left to wade through the
flames.  Second, Brian Kantor, who maintains the info-hams mailing
list, has said that info-hams will continue to gateway rec.ham-radio
(and, presumably, rec.radio.amateur.misc) only, and moving the
technical postings off would deprive those on the mailing list.

6. Why create a .cb group? There is currently no place for Citizens' Band
radio discussions explicit in the hierarchy. These postings currently wind
up in rec.ham-radio, where they tend to generate flamage all out of
proportion to their volume.


THE MECHANICS OF THE VOTE:
==========================

The voting period will run from Monday, 7 January 1991 until Monday, 28
January 1991. Only votes received during that period will be counted.
Each proposal is a separate vote, and must be voted on separately under
the Guidelines for Group Creation (which have been applied to renames as
well in the past).

Please edit and send in the ballot below. Each ballot will be stripped of
all but the From: line and the lines containing valid votes by an automatic
process; I won't see any comments included. No individual acknowledgments
will be mailed. Votes will be acknowledged en masse in a posting on Thursday,
18 January 1991, and complete vote results will be posted on Tuesday, 29
January 1991.

For each proposal, indicate your choice of a yes vote or a no vote by
placing a Y or N, respectively, at the beginning of the line. The first
character on the line that is either a Y or an N (case doesn't matter)
will be counted as your vote on that proposal. You may abstain from any
particular vote by deleting the line entirely from the ballot. An invalid
line (one not containing a Y or an N before the "Proposal #n:" tag) will be
treated as an abstention, as well. Mail the completed ballot to me at
this address, [email protected], with the characters "VOTE"
somewhere in the Subject: line. (Again, case doesn't matter.) Replying to
this message with your newsreader's mail reply command ("R" in rn, readnews,
vnews, and vn; I don't know nn's commamd) will work fine. Votes posted to
the net will be summarily ignored and may earn the poster a free flame from
the net.police.

THE BALLOT:
===========
 ?   Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
 ?   Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
 ?   Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
 ?   Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
 ?   Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb



--
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
[email protected]  | adequately be explained by stupidity.
            "I smell a scientific fish." -- Chip Salzenberg


From [email protected] Mon Sep 27 10:31:20 1993
Flags: 000000000601
Path: lear
From: Jay Maynard <[email protected]>
Subject: VOTE RESULTS: rec.ham-radio reorganization
Date: Sun,  3 Feb 91 21:29:10 PST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups
Followup-to: news.groups
Keywords: posted

The voting period for the rec.ham-radio.* reorganization is now over.
The proposals to be voted on were:
Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb

The results are as follows:
Proposal 1: 172 to 47...margin 125, percent in favor 78.538813
Proposal 2: 178 to 42...margin 136, percent in favor 80.909091
Proposal 3: 177 to 44...margin 133, percent in favor 80.090498
Proposal 4: 173 to 44...margin 129, percent in favor 79.723502
Proposal 5: 160 to 49...margin 111, percent in favor 76.555024

As you can see, all five proposals have passed, since all five have a margin
of yes votes over no votes of greater than 100, and all five have more than
67% (2/3) of the votes cast being yes votes.

The five-day period of checking for duplicates and invalid votes begins as of
the time that these results appear in news.announce.newgroups, per the
Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation. If no problems that change the outcome of
any proposal are found, then I will ask Eliot Lear to issue newgroup messages
for rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.radio.amateur.packet, rec.radio.swap,
rec.radio.amateur.policy, and rec.radio.cb. In a month, I will ask him to
repost the newgroup messages, and post rmgroups for rec.ham-radio,
rec.ham-radio.packet, and rec.ham-radio.swap. I would ask sysadmins on the
net to alias rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.ham-radio.packet to
rec.radio.amateur.packet, and rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap when they
receive the newgroup messages - but not before.

Thanks go to all who provided input into the process of shaping this proposal.
It started out as one man's idea, but quickly grew to encompass just about
every input even remotely compatible with the overall objective. Thanks also
go to all who voted - as you can see, every vote counts, as just 6 votes the
other way would have defeated rec.radio.cb.

For those who keep track of when votes are received, 85 were received the
first day, 128 by the fourth, 148 by the tenth, and 33 the day after the
second call for votes was posted. Only 14 were received in the last week.

I wound up writing a shell script to massage ballots received into the format
you see below, and an awk program to generate the report at the top of this
message. Anyone who's interested in those pieces of cruft (really, they're
not pretty - they just work), just drop me a note and I'll pass them along.

The votes received are listed below: (Y=yes, N=no, A=abstain)

+---------Proposal #1
| +-------Proposal #2
| | +-----Proposal #3
| | | +---Proposal #4
| | | | +-Proposal #5
V V V V V From: line as received
Y Y Y Y Y " 24298, GIBBONS, JOHN" <[email protected]>
N N N N N 07-Jan-1991 1026 <[email protected]>
N N N N N [email protected]
N Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Alan Ruffer)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Jim Benoit)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Evelyn Ruffer)
Y Y Y N A [email protected]
Y Y Y Y A Andreas Bjorklind <[email protected]>
N N N N A Andrew Siegel <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y anicon!doug (Doug Grant)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Only 345 more shopping days until Christmas)
Y Y Y N Y [email protected]!edgar.Mn.Org (barry)
N Y N Y Y Bernhard Buettner <[email protected]>
N N N N N [email protected] (William S. Johnston)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Alan Biocca)
Y Y Y Y Y Bob Manson <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y N Bob Witte <[email protected]>
Y Y Y N N BOB WOOD WA7MXZ <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y bootsie!olson (Eric K. Olson)
Y Y Y Y Y "Brian Bartholomew" <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Brian McMinn)
N N N N N [email protected] (Brian Kantor)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Bill Carson)
Y Y Y Y A [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y Charles J. Guest <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y A Charley Kline <[email protected]>
N N N N N Charlie Panek <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Charlie Root <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (C. Harald Koch)
Y Y N Y N [email protected] (Chuck Baldwin)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Chuck Bowden)
Y Y Y Y Y connolly%[email protected] (Christopher Connolly)
Y Y Y Y Y "CPT Douglas E. Nielsen" <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (John Covington WN4BBJ)
Y Y N N Y [email protected] (Cliff Tuel)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Curt Sampson)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Dave Schmidt)
Y Y Y Y Y David Wright <[email protected]>
N N N N Y [email protected] (Dave Cottingham)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (David Myers)
Y Y Y Y Y Denny Lim <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (John Dillon)
Y Y Y Y N [email protected]
N N N N Y Doug Faunt N6TQS 415-688-8269 <[email protected]>
N Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Douglas Tabor [Sun Colorado Commercial SE])
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y Duncan Elliott <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Dan Veditz)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
N N N N Y [email protected] (Ed Naratil)
Y Y Y Y Y Ed Hall <[email protected]>
N N N N Y [email protected] (Eddy J. Gurney)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Carlo Sgro)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Emanuele Girlando)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Mark Hartman)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Ishmael J. Stefanov-Wagner)
Y Y Y Y N Eric Peterson <[email protected]>
N N N N Y FINBERG%[email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Flemming Kraglund)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Bob Foxworth)
N N N N N [email protected] (Fred Lloyd SUN Phoenix SE 602-275-4242)
Y Y Y Y A [email protected] (Frederick Herrmann)
Y Y Y Y N Gary Bridges <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y N "Gary D. Archer" <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Gary Reardon)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Gary Heston)
N N N N N [email protected] (Gary M. Diana (645))
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Gary Bastin 60293)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y georgep%[email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y Gerben 'P' Vos <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Gerrit Polder <GERRIT.POLDER%[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Gil [email protected]@Banyan)
Y Y Y Y N [email protected] (Gregory K Doerschler)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (GARY A. MORRIS)
Y Y Y Y N [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (William Graham)
Y Y Y Y Y Greg DesBrisay <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Greg Mansfield)
Y Y Y N N [email protected]
A A Y A A [email protected] (William Watson)
Y Y Y Y Y Harri Salminen <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Mike Harris)
Y Y Y Y Y Harry P Bloomberg <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Eric S Johansson)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Ron Heiby)
Y Y Y Y Y Henk Peek <[email protected]>
N Y Y Y Y Henry Black <[email protected]>
N N N N N "Henry T. Rand" (AED-FD) <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (McConnell, Ronald C., W2IOL)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Hamid N. Khan)
A Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Peter Anvin)
Y Y Y Y Y Ignatius Tan <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Peter Franks)
N N N N Y Jay Kesterson <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Jay Maynard <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y jcv27%[email protected]
N N N N N Jeff Rininger <[email protected]>
N N N Y Y [email protected] (Jerry Simonowits)
N N N Y Y Jim Hollenback <[email protected]>
N N N N N ji[email protected] (Jim Grubs)
Y Y Y Y Y Joe Dubner <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Joe Hamlin <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y John Gruber<[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y John Murray <[email protected]>
N N N N N John Schmidt <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y "Jon W. McCombie" <[email protected]>
Y Y Y A A Jordan Brown <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Jim Earl)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (J. R. Massi)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Jon T. Adams)
N N N N N [email protected] (Julian Macassey)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (James V Morgan, Jr)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
N N N N N [email protected] (Gary Coffman)
N N N N Y [email protected] (Kim DeVaughn)
Y Y Y Y Y Kevin Quinlan <kquinlan%[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Steve Lane)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Lane Holdcroft)
N N N N N [email protected] (Alan Larson)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Lee Ziegenhals)
Y Y Y Y N [email protected] (Mark Linimon)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Ari Husa OH8NUP)
Y Y Y Y N [email protected] (Lyndon Nerenberg)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Myron A. Calhoun)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Mark A. Haun)
N N N N N [email protected] (Mahler Stephen J)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Will Marchant)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Mark Maxwell-Keiser)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Bite the Wax Tadpole)
Y Y Y Y Y Matthew Allen <[email protected]>
N N N N N [email protected] (Mike Butts)
N N N N N [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Michael C. Berch)
Y Y Y Y Y "Mike Beaty, Servowriter Engineering" <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Mike Horne <mhorne%[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y A Mike Northam ext 2651 <sns4!mbn%[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Mike Weihman <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y N [email protected] (Larry Johnson)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Marc Lefebvre, Ireq, Hydro-Quebec, QC, Canada 514-652-8554)
Y Y Y A A [email protected] (Mark Brader)
N N N N N [email protected] (Mike Westerhof SE Chicago Metro)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Neil Murray)
Y Y Y N Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (John Spoonhower)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (John W. Novotny)
Y Y Y A A "Ofer Inbar" <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y ogicse!hpupora.nsr.hp.com!Mark.Zenier%ssc%[email protected]
N N N N Y "Oh brave new worm to have such features in't 15-Jan-1991 1358" <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y N [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Barry Ornitz)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected], [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y Panos Economopoulos <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y N Paul Gerwitz <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Paul A. Flaherty)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Peter B. Hayward)
Y Y Y Y N [email protected] (Paul Howard)
Y Y Y Y Y Phil Howard KA9WGN <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Mark B Colosia)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Paul W. Schleck KD3FU)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Rick DeMattia)
Y Y Y Y Y Randy Nelson VE3WRN <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Rich Bono - NM1D)
N N N N N Reality is the original Rorschach 18-Jan-1991 0932 <"dm_johnson"@helix.enet.dec.com>
N N N N N [email protected] (R.L.Christiansen, Engineering Research Division)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (David F. Reed)
Y Y Y Y Y Richard H. Miller <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y "Rob Mayfield, ASC" <[email protected]>
N N N N N Robert P. Scott - Won't work without a net. <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Roger Taylor <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Ron Kirkpatrick <ronk%[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y A [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y scampbel%[email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Daniel C Schnell)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Scott Ellington)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Sean Petty)
N N N N N "Sid B. Bernstein" (AED-EWD|ARCS) <[email protected]>
N N Y Y Y [email protected] (Sander J. Rabinowitz)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Carl Makin)
Y Y Y Y Y Skip La Fetra <[email protected]>
N N N N N [email protected] (WU SHI-KUEI)
N N N N N [email protected] (John Stanley)
Y Y Y Y N [email protected] (Steve Harding)
N Y N Y Y [email protected] (Steve Schallehn)
N N N N Y [email protected] (Steven Philipson)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y "Suzy Mercer" <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y "System Manager" <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Tadd <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Ted Cowie <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (I know you are! But what am I?)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Mikel Lechner)
Y Y Y Y N The Wandering Phew <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Thomas Alan Dockstader <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y "Thomas Stingl, DL5SBS" <STINGL%i70vca%[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Timothy D Aanerud)
Y Y Y Y Y Timo Saarinen OH3YN <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y Tom Haapanen <[email protected]>
N N N N N [email protected]
Y Y Y Y N [email protected]
N N N Y Y Visualize Whirled Peas <[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
N N N N N [email protected] (Dennis Henderson)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Eric Weaver)
N N N N N [email protected]
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected]
Y Y Y Y N "Wolfgang Tremmel, Postmaster" <tremmel%[email protected]>
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Gregory G. Woodbury)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Greg A. Woods)
N N Y N N [email protected] (Wally Wulfeck)
Y Y Y Y N [email protected] (Wolfgang Wetz)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Jeff Crilly N6ZFX)
Y Y Y Y Y [email protected] (Peter Danan)

--
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
[email protected]  | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"Today is different from yesterday." -- State Department spokesman Margaret
Tutwiler, 17 Jan 91, explaining why they won't negotiate with Saddam Hussein


 
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