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From [email protected] Fri Oct 27 00:47:06 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Will Wagers) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.archaeology,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology,sci.archaeology,sci.astro,soc.history Subject: RFD: sci.philosophy.natural moderated Followup-To: news.groups Date: 27 Oct 1995 04:46:10 -0000 Organization: . Lines: 252 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: sci.philosophy.natural Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7768 news.groups:171565 alt.archaeology:1549 alt.mythology:21118 sci.anthropology:19619 sci.archaeology:32704 sci.astro:106966 soc.history:60200                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)                 moderated group sci.philosophy.natural  This is an official RFD (Request For Discussion) for the creation of the Usenet newsgroup sci.philosophy.natural. It outlines the proposal for this new group, and is - as it says - for discussion. This discussion should take place in the newsgroup news.groups. Please keep the discussion out of other newsgroups and mailing lists in order to disrupt them as little as possible.  Please *do not vote yet*. The minimum required discussion period for the RFD is 21 days. The CFV (Call For Votes) shall be announced at a later date.  RATIONALE: sci.philosophy.natural  sci.philosophy.natural will meet a long-standing demand for a moderated newsgroup for the scholarly discussion of and publications on ancient natural philosophy (science) without flames and without unfounded 'speculative' postings. The proposed newsgroup would not replace any existing groups. There is a small overlap with *many* existing newsgroups and mailing lists in that subjects appropriate to sci.philosophy.natural are occasionally discussed there. One purpose of sci.philosophy.natural is to bring these discussions under one roof to faciliate interdisciplinary scholarship. In some cases, this may result in offloading some traffic from high volume newsgroups and mailing lists. It would still leave any and all posters the forums that currently exist, so there is no question of denying anyone an outlet for their ideas. The small number of newsgroups and mailing lists which regularly deal with topics appropriate to sci.philosophy.natural may regard the proposed newsgroup as a means of publishing finished articles after the rounds of specialist comment and criticism have occurred.  Minority viewpoints are seldom embraced and are often actively discouraged on many specialist moderated newsgroups and mailing lists which are dominated by a small group of established "experts". sci.philosophy.natural welcomes minority and controversial viewpoints which are *justified by scholarship and which pass moderation*.  The number of potential readers is difficult to estimate due to the interdisciplinary nature of the group. However, a small survey for a single subject area encompassed by sci.philosophy.natural drew 132 interested readers or contributors. Many mailing lists from which sci.philosophy.natural would draw participation have 300+ members.  CHARTER: sci.philosophy.natural  sci.philosophy.natural shall be a moderated newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of and publications on ancient natural philosophy. All viewpoints and levels of knowledge are welcome, subject to the moderation policy described below. Because natural philosophy is such a broad subject and because lively debate on issues is encouraged, this group is moderated by a panel. Prospective articles are assigned to a moderator with skills appropriate for approval. This method will hopefully lead to the fastest turn-around time and least intrusion possible. Articles will *not* be rejected based on whether the moderator(s) disagree with the views expressed. The text itself will either be accepted as-is or rejected. In some cases, the moderator may suggest changes.  Moderation policy:  * Articles may be full-length or extracts, requests for information, announcements of relevance, etc. Lengthy quotation (more than 30 lines) of source material must be accompanied by commentary or by other text which ties it to on-going discussions. Articles which quote substantially the same source material repetitively will not be approved. Articles consisting of materials which are available on-line at ftp or WWW sites will not be approved, rather pointers to sites may be given. Moderator(s) may waive this rule at their discretion.  * Articles which contain personal attacks of any sort will not be approved for posting.  * Articles which confuse politics with other subjects will be refused.  * Flameless disagreements are welcome; but, if a thread looks as though it's never going to be resolved, the moderator(s) reserve the right to terminate it or suspend it until new evidence is produced.  * Blank messages, test messages, advertisements, MAKE.MONEY.FAST, binaries, uuencoded messages, and so forth, will not be approved posting.  * This is *not* a forum for the discussion of purely 'speculative' works, such as those of Von Daniken, etc. So if you want to post something arguing that aliens built the Pyramids, expect it to be rejected unless you can offer citations from accepted professional journals. You will still have the existing news groups in which to post.  * Moderator(s) may, at their discretion, change the Subject: lines for threads which have strayed from the initial subject.  * Articles which include excessive quoting (e.g. an article which quotes an entire other article in order to add a few comments at the end) will be trimmed by the moderator(s).  * An article *must* have a valid reply-to address or it will not be approved for posting.  * Cross-posting is strongly discouraged and requires a compelling reason for approval.  * Rejected articles which would be acceptable after editing will be returned to the poster with an explanation and suggestions for change. Articles rejected for other reasons may be shared with the other moderators for group consideration if the poster wishes to appeal.  * Any article that contains more than fifty percent quoted material (and the author's signature shall not count as original material for purposes of determining the proportion) may be trimmed or rejected at the discretion of the moderator(s). In exercising this discretion, the moderator(s) shall take readability considerations into account, such as the amount of quoted material at the beginning of the message, and the size of the blocks of quoted material. If the entire length of the article (excluding header and signature) is less than 24 lines of 80 characters, then the requirement of 50% original material may be waived at the moderator's discretion.  * In keeping with Usenet netiquette conventions, signatures should be restricted to 5 lines. Moderators may, at their discretion, trim signatures to four lines before posting articles. Signatures may not sport commercial, political, obscene, or contentious figures or slogans.  * Scholarly postings are considered the intellectual property of the poster. If you intend to quote original material, e.g. to another newsgroup or mailing list, permission must be sought from the original poster.  Moderators:  The proposer of the group is the initial moderator and is responsible for recruiting others. If the number of moderators fall below four (4), volunteers will be solicited. An automatic script will be used to share postings among the moderators.  It is important to have a clear policy to cover the possibility that there is conflict in the affairs of the moderation panel itself. It is generally believed that moderators will come and go throughout the course of the group, and in all cases the goal will be a consensus amongst the panel regarding the addition of new moderators. A standard group decision process will be followed: a motion will be made to add a new moderator, and if there are no objections it will go ahead. Friendly relations are certainly expected.  If there is an objection to a motion, and a group decision is not reached by discussion, a vote can be carried out in accordance with the statements below. In any of the following cases, a secret ballot may be requested -- and if a suitable (meaning: agreeably neutral) volunteer on the panel to collect the ballots cannot be found, will be carried out via point #5 below -- but voting will generally be public (within the confines of the moderation panel itself).  1. If it comes to a vote, new moderators must be approved by a supermajority (75% rounded downward, ie. two out of three moderators, eight out of eleven moderators, nine out of twelve moderators, etc.) amongst the moderation panel. Abstentions will not affect the outcome of this vote, meaning that a supermajority among voting moderators must be obtained. In the case of only two voting moderators who disagree, the prospective moderator will not be added.  2. Moderators who will be unavailable for more than a week are expected to have their names removed from the active file for that period. This implies no permanent change in status, and they will be simply returned to active duty afterward.  3. New moderators will be considered if the number of moderators falls below four, or if several moderators have taken extended leaves of absence. In the latter case, any new moderators will be "temporary" unless accepted by the returning members of the moderation panel. Additional "temporary" moderators will be added as required to handle various specialities, e.g. ancient mathematics, ancient physics, archaeoastronomy, linguistics, etc. If the volume of submissions warrants, such "temporary" moderators will be made permanent. People named as successors by retiring moderators will generally be given preference.  4. Moderators can be removed by a supermajority (as above) vote amongst the moderation panel (including the moderator in question). Abstentions will count as votes against removal.  5. If there is controversy amongst the moderators concerning the application of these guidelines, the moderation panel agrees to submit to binding arbitration by moderators-advice at UUNET. This situation covers true interpretive controversy, as well as such technical scenarios as: only two moderators, one wanting to remove the other; so many moderators on extended leave or genuinely unresponsive that the active panel cannot remove them to get on with business, etc.  6. Any votes or motions may be called into question by moderators returning from leaves of absence, though these ballots may be counted as abstentions in the interim.  7. All prospective moderators must agree to abide by these guidelines in their entirety before consideration for moderator status. By acting as a moderator, this point is implied, regardless of written confirmation.  Changes:  It requires unanimous approval of the moderation panel to change these guidelines; and, they must remain within the broad outlines given in the original CFV charter.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: sci.philosophy.natural  Moderator: [email protected] (Will Wagers)  END MODERATOR INFO.  PROCEDURE:  Posting of this RFD initiates a discussion period of at least 21 days. Discussion about the proposed newsgroup will take place on news.groups, which is a newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of new newsgroups, and all interested people are encouraged to participate. If you post messages about this RFD, please ensure that your article headers include:  Newsgroups: news.groups Followup-To: news.groups  If you wish to post to news.groups, but don't have access, you may mail your post to [email protected]  After the discussion period, a Call For Votes (CFV) will be posted to the newsgroups and mailing lists this RFD was posted to, and to any other appropriate newsgroups or lists suggested during the discussion.  The CFV will include directions for mailing votes to a neutral votetaker. The voting period will be at least 21 days.  The group will pass the vote if it receives 100 more YES votes than NO votes *and* twice as many YES votes as NO votes.  DISTRIBUTION:  This RFD shall be crossposted to the following newsgroups:  news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.archaeology, alt.mythology, sci.anthropology, sci.archaeology, sci.astro, soc.history  and the following mailing lists:  ANCIEN-L, ANE, ARCH-L, H-IDEAS, INDOEUROPEAN-L, INDOLOGY, ISLAM-L, LEUCIPPUS, LITSCI-L, LT-ANTIQ, MEDSCI-L, SSREL-L, THEOLOG-L  Note  Pointers will be posted to additional groups and mailing lists notifying them where to find this RFD. Post discussion on this RFD *only* to news.groups under the thread "RFD: sci.philosophy.natural moderated". Please don't discuss it in other newsgroups. This is not a Call for Votes. Do not try to vote now.  Proponent: Will Wagers <[email protected]> Mentor: Mark James <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Mon Nov 20 23:01:00 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: David Bostwick <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.archaeology,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology,sci.archaeology,sci.astro,soc.history Subject: CFV: sci.philosophy.natural moderated Followup-To: poster Date: 21 Nov 1995 04:00:52 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 273 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 13 Dec 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> Reply-To: David Bostwick <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: sci.philosophy.natural Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7908 news.groups:175163 alt.archaeology:1738 alt.mythology:22330 sci.anthropology:19944 sci.archaeology:33816 sci.astro:109436 soc.history:61337                       FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)                 moderated group sci.philosophy.natural  Newsgroups line: sci.philosophy.natural	Ancient natural philosophy. (Moderated)  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 12 Dec 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Will Wagers <[email protected]> Mentor:  Mark James <[email protected]> Votetaker: David Bostwick <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: sci.philosophy.natural  sci.philosophy.natural will meet a long-standing demand for a moderated newsgroup for the scholarly discussion of and publications on ancient natural philosophy (science) without flames and without unfounded 'speculative' postings. The proposed newsgroup would not replace any existing groups. There is a small overlap with *many* existing newsgroups and mailing lists in that subjects appropriate to sci.philosophy.natural are occasionally discussed there. One purpose of sci.philosophy.natural is to bring these discussions under one roof to facilitate interdisciplinary scholarship. In some cases, this may result in offloading some traffic from high volume newsgroups and mailing lists. It would still leave any and all posters the forums that currently exist, so there is no question of denying anyone an outlet for their ideas. The small number of newsgroups and mailing lists which regularly deal with topics appropriate to sci.philosophy.natural may regard the proposed newsgroup as a means of publishing finished articles after the rounds of specialist comment and criticism have occurred.  Minority viewpoints are seldom embraced and are often actively discouraged on many specialist moderated newsgroups and mailing lists which are dominated by a small group of established "experts". sci.philosophy.natural welcomes minority and controversial viewpoints which are *justified by scholarship and which pass moderation*.  The number of potential readers is difficult to estimate due to the interdisciplinary nature of the group. However, a small survey for a single subject area encompassed by sci.philosophy.natural drew 132 interested readers or contributors. Many mailing lists from which sci.philosophy.natural would draw participation have 300+ members.  CHARTER: sci.philosophy.natural  sci.philosophy.natural shall be a moderated newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of and publications on ancient natural philosophy. All viewpoints and levels of knowledge are welcome, subject to the moderation policy described below. Because natural philosophy is such a broad subject and because lively debate on issues is encouraged, this group is moderated by a panel. Prospective articles are assigned to a moderator with skills appropriate for approval. This method will hopefully lead to the fastest turn-around time and least intrusion possible. Articles will *not* be rejected based on whether the moderator(s) disagree with the views expressed. The text itself will either be accepted as-is or rejected. In some cases, the moderator may suggest changes.  Moderation policy:  * Articles may be full-length or extracts, requests for information, announcements of relevance, etc. Lengthy quotation (more than 30 lines) of source material must be accompanied by commentary or by other text which ties it to on-going discussions. Articles which quote substantially the same source material repetitively will not be approved. Articles consisting of materials which are available on-line at ftp or WWW sites will not be approved, rather pointers to sites may be given. Moderator(s) may waive this rule at their discretion.  * Articles which contain personal attacks of any sort will not be approved for posting.  * Articles which confuse politics with other subjects will be refused.  * Flameless disagreements are welcome; but, if a thread looks as though it's never going to be resolved, the moderator(s) reserve the right to terminate it or suspend it until new evidence is produced.  * Blank messages, test messages, advertisements, MAKE.MONEY.FAST, binaries, uuencoded messages, and so forth, will not be approved posting.  * This is *not* a forum for the discussion of purely 'speculative' works, such as those of Von Daniken, etc. So if you want to post something arguing that aliens built the Pyramids, expect it to be rejected unless you can offer citations from accepted professional journals. You will still have the existing news groups in which to post.  * Moderator(s) may, at their discretion, change the Subject: lines for threads which have strayed from the initial subject.  * Articles which include excessive quoting (e.g. an article which quotes an entire other article in order to add a few comments at the end) will be trimmed by the moderator(s).  * An article *must* have a valid reply-to address or it will not be approved for posting.  * Cross-posting is strongly discouraged and requires a compelling reason for approval.  * Rejected articles which would be acceptable after editing will be returned to the poster with an explanation and suggestions for change. Articles rejected for other reasons may be shared with the other moderators for group consideration if the poster wishes to appeal.  * Any article that contains more than fifty percent quoted material (and the author's signature shall not count as original material for purposes of determining the proportion) may be trimmed or rejected at the discretion of the moderator(s). In exercising this discretion, the moderator(s) shall take readability considerations into account, such as the amount of quoted material at the beginning of the message, and the size of the blocks of quoted material. If the entire length of the article (excluding header and signature) is less than 24 lines of 80 characters, then the requirement of 50% original material may be waived at the moderator's discretion.  * In keeping with Usenet netiquette conventions, signatures should be restricted to 5 lines. Moderators may, at their discretion, trim signatures to four lines before posting articles. Signatures may not sport commercial, political, obscene, or contentious figures or slogans.  * Scholarly postings are considered the intellectual property of the poster. If you intend to quote original material, e.g. to another newsgroup or mailing list, permission must be sought from the original poster.  Moderators:  The proposer of the group is the initial moderator and is responsible for recruiting others. If the number of moderators fall below four (4), volunteers will be solicited. An automatic script will be used to share postings among the moderators.  It is important to have a clear policy to cover the possibility that there is conflict in the affairs of the moderation panel itself. It is generally believed that moderators will come and go throughout the course of the group, and in all cases the goal will be a consensus amongst the panel regarding the addition of new moderators. A standard group decision process will be followed: a motion will be made to add a new moderator, and if there are no objections it will go ahead. Friendly relations are certainly expected.  If there is an objection to a motion, and a group decision is not reached by discussion, a vote can be carried out in accordance with the statements below. In any of the following cases, a secret ballot may be requested -- and if a suitable (meaning: agreeably neutral) volunteer on the panel to collect the ballots cannot be found, will be carried out via point #5 below -- but voting will generally be public (within the confines of the moderation panel itself).  1. If it comes to a vote, new moderators must be approved by a supermajority (75% rounded downward, ie. two out of three moderators, eight out of eleven moderators, nine out of twelve moderators, etc.) amongst the moderation panel. Abstentions will not affect the outcome of this vote, meaning that a supermajority among voting moderators must be obtained. In the case of only two voting moderators who disagree, the prospective moderator will not be added.  2. Moderators who will be unavailable for more than a week are expected to have their names removed from the active file for that period. This implies no permanent change in status, and they will be simply returned to active duty afterward.  3. New moderators will be considered if the number of moderators falls below four, or if several moderators have taken extended leaves of absence. In the latter case, any new moderators will be "temporary" unless accepted by the returning members of the moderation panel. Additional "temporary" moderators will be added as required to handle various specialities, e.g. ancient mathematics, ancient physics, archaeoastronomy, linguistics, etc. If the volume of submissions warrants, such "temporary" moderators will be made permanent. People named as successors by retiring moderators will generally be given preference.  4. Moderators can be removed by a supermajority (as above) vote amongst the moderation panel (including the moderator in question). Abstentions will count as votes against removal.  5. If there is controversy amongst the moderators concerning the application of these guidelines, the moderation panel agrees to submit to binding arbitration by moderators-advice at UUNET. This situation covers true interpretive controversy, as well as such technical scenarios as: only two moderators, one wanting to remove the other; so many moderators on extended leave or genuinely unresponsive that the active panel cannot remove them to get on with business, etc.  6. Any votes or motions may be called into question by moderators returning from leaves of absence, though these ballots may be counted as abstentions in the interim.  7. All prospective moderators must agree to abide by these guidelines in their entirety before consideration for moderator status. By acting as a moderator, this point is implied, regardless of written confirmation.  Changes:  It requires unanimous approval of the moderation panel to change these guidelines; and, they must remain within the broad outlines given in the original CFV charter.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: sci.philosophy.natural  Moderator: Will Wagers <[email protected]>  END MODERATOR INFO.  HOW TO VOTE  Delete everything above the top "-=-=-" line and delete everything below the bottom -=-=-" line.  Do not change anything between these lines, except to add your name and vote.  Give your name on the line that asks for it.  For each group, put your vote in the brackets next to the group name.  Valid entries are ABSTAIN, CANCEL, NO, and YES.  Anything else may generate an invalid vote.  Don't worry about changes in spacing or any quote characters (">") that your reply may insert.  Mail the ballot to <[email protected]>.  Just replying to this should work, but check the "To:" line.  Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited ballots is considered vote fraud.  Only one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Votes will be acknowleged by e-mail.  If you have not received an acknowledgement within a few days, contact the votetaker.  It is your responsibility to be certain your vote has been recorded correctly.  If you want to change your vote, you may vote again, but only the latest vote will be counted. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final vote ack.  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of people who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted in news.groups.  When in doubt, ask the votetaker.  -=-=- BEGINNING OF BALLOT: DELETE EVERYTHING ABOVE THIS LINE =-=-=-=-=-=-= This ballot is available only from      |      FIRST CALL FOR VOTES      | postings in news.groups or by e-mail    |     SCI.PHILOSOPHY.NATURAL     | from the votetaker.  It is distributed  |                      | blank.  Votes are counted by computer,  ================================== and failure to use this ballot increases the possibility that the software will be unable to process your vote properly.  Do not edit this ballot except to add your name and indicate your vote.  These are examples of how to mark the ballot.  Do not vote here. [   YES   ] example.yes.vote [   NO    ] example.no.vote [ ABSTAIN ] example.abstain.vote [ CANCEL  ] example.cancel.vote  The placement of the word within the brackets is not important, but use the complete word, not just one letter.  Enter your name and indicate your vote in the spaces below. ------------------------------------------------------------------------  Give your real name here: If you do not give your real name, your vote may be rejected.  [Your Vote]  Group (Place your vote in the brackets next to the group) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  sci.philosophy.natural -=-=-=-=  END OF BALLOT: DELETE EVERYTHING BELOW THIS LINE  =-=-=-=-=-=-=  DISTRIBUTION:  In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, information about the CFV will be mailed to the following mailing lists.  ANCIEN-L, ANE, ARCH-L, H-IDEAS, INDOEUROPEAN-L, INDOLOGY, ISLAM-L, LEUCIPPUS, LITSCI-L, LT-ANTIQ, MEDSCI-L, SSREL-L, THEOLOG-L.  From [email protected] Mon Dec  4 09:40:49 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: David Bostwick <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.archaeology,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology,sci.archaeology,sci.astro,soc.history Subject: 2nd CFV: sci.philosophy.natural moderated Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: poster Date: 4 Dec 1995 14:40:43 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 279 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 13 Dec 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> Reply-To: David Bostwick <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: sci.philosophy.natural Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7968 news.groups:177622 alt.archaeology:1872 alt.mythology:22989 sci.anthropology:20109 sci.archaeology:34455 sci.astro:110522 soc.history:61879                        LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)                 moderated group sci.philosophy.natural  Newsgroups line: sci.philosophy.natural	Ancient natural philosophy. (Moderated)  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 12 Dec 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Will Wagers <[email protected]> Mentor:  Mark James <[email protected]> Votetaker: David Bostwick <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: sci.philosophy.natural  sci.philosophy.natural will meet a long-standing demand for a moderated newsgroup for the scholarly discussion of and publications on ancient natural philosophy (science) without flames and without unfounded 'speculative' postings. The proposed newsgroup would not replace any existing groups. There is a small overlap with *many* existing newsgroups and mailing lists in that subjects appropriate to sci.philosophy.natural are occasionally discussed there. One purpose of sci.philosophy.natural is to bring these discussions under one roof to facilitate interdisciplinary scholarship. In some cases, this may result in offloading some traffic from high volume newsgroups and mailing lists. It would still leave any and all posters the forums that currently exist, so there is no question of denying anyone an outlet for their ideas. The small number of newsgroups and mailing lists which regularly deal with topics appropriate to sci.philosophy.natural may regard the proposed newsgroup as a means of publishing finished articles after the rounds of specialist comment and criticism have occurred.  Minority viewpoints are seldom embraced and are often actively discouraged on many specialist moderated newsgroups and mailing lists which are dominated by a small group of established "experts". sci.philosophy.natural welcomes minority and controversial viewpoints which are *justified by scholarship and which pass moderation*.  The number of potential readers is difficult to estimate due to the interdisciplinary nature of the group. However, a small survey for a single subject area encompassed by sci.philosophy.natural drew 132 interested readers or contributors. Many mailing lists from which sci.philosophy.natural would draw participation have 300+ members.  CHARTER: sci.philosophy.natural  sci.philosophy.natural shall be a moderated newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of and publications on ancient natural philosophy. All viewpoints and levels of knowledge are welcome, subject to the moderation policy described below. Because natural philosophy is such a broad subject and because lively debate on issues is encouraged, this group is moderated by a panel. Prospective articles are assigned to a moderator with skills appropriate for approval. This method will hopefully lead to the fastest turn-around time and least intrusion possible. Articles will *not* be rejected based on whether the moderator(s) disagree with the views expressed. The text itself will either be accepted as-is or rejected. In some cases, the moderator may suggest changes.  Moderation policy:  * Articles may be full-length or extracts, requests for information, announcements of relevance, etc. Lengthy quotation (more than 30 lines) of source material must be accompanied by commentary or by other text which ties it to on-going discussions. Articles which quote substantially the same source material repetitively will not be approved. Articles consisting of materials which are available on-line at ftp or WWW sites will not be approved, rather pointers to sites may be given. Moderator(s) may waive this rule at their discretion.  * Articles which contain personal attacks of any sort will not be approved for posting.  * Articles which confuse politics with other subjects will be refused.  * Flameless disagreements are welcome; but, if a thread looks as though it's never going to be resolved, the moderator(s) reserve the right to terminate it or suspend it until new evidence is produced.  * Blank messages, test messages, advertisements, MAKE.MONEY.FAST, binaries, uuencoded messages, and so forth, will not be approved posting.  * This is *not* a forum for the discussion of purely 'speculative' works, such as those of Von Daniken, etc. So if you want to post something arguing that aliens built the Pyramids, expect it to be rejected unless you can offer citations from accepted professional journals. You will still have the existing news groups in which to post.  * Moderator(s) may, at their discretion, change the Subject: lines for threads which have strayed from the initial subject.  * Articles which include excessive quoting (e.g. an article which quotes an entire other article in order to add a few comments at the end) will be trimmed by the moderator(s).  * An article *must* have a valid reply-to address or it will not be approved for posting.  * Cross-posting is strongly discouraged and requires a compelling reason for approval.  * Rejected articles which would be acceptable after editing will be returned to the poster with an explanation and suggestions for change. Articles rejected for other reasons may be shared with the other moderators for group consideration if the poster wishes to appeal.  * Any article that contains more than fifty percent quoted material (and the author's signature shall not count as original material for purposes of determining the proportion) may be trimmed or rejected at the discretion of the moderator(s). In exercising this discretion, the moderator(s) shall take readability considerations into account, such as the amount of quoted material at the beginning of the message, and the size of the blocks of quoted material. If the entire length of the article (excluding header and signature) is less than 24 lines of 80 characters, then the requirement of 50% original material may be waived at the moderator's discretion.  * In keeping with Usenet netiquette conventions, signatures should be restricted to 5 lines. Moderators may, at their discretion, trim signatures to four lines before posting articles. Signatures may not sport commercial, political, obscene, or contentious figures or slogans.  * Scholarly postings are considered the intellectual property of the poster. If you intend to quote original material, e.g. to another newsgroup or mailing list, permission must be sought from the original poster.  Moderators:  The proposer of the group is the initial moderator and is responsible for recruiting others. If the number of moderators fall below four (4), volunteers will be solicited. An automatic script will be used to share postings among the moderators.  It is important to have a clear policy to cover the possibility that there is conflict in the affairs of the moderation panel itself. It is generally believed that moderators will come and go throughout the course of the group, and in all cases the goal will be a consensus amongst the panel regarding the addition of new moderators. A standard group decision process will be followed: a motion will be made to add a new moderator, and if there are no objections it will go ahead. Friendly relations are certainly expected.  If there is an objection to a motion, and a group decision is not reached by discussion, a vote can be carried out in accordance with the statements below. In any of the following cases, a secret ballot may be requested -- and if a suitable (meaning: agreeably neutral) volunteer on the panel to collect the ballots cannot be found, will be carried out via point #5 below -- but voting will generally be public (within the confines of the moderation panel itself).  1. If it comes to a vote, new moderators must be approved by a supermajority (75% rounded downward, ie. two out of three moderators, eight out of eleven moderators, nine out of twelve moderators, etc.) amongst the moderation panel. Abstentions will not affect the outcome of this vote, meaning that a supermajority among voting moderators must be obtained. In the case of only two voting moderators who disagree, the prospective moderator will not be added.  2. Moderators who will be unavailable for more than a week are expected to have their names removed from the active file for that period. This implies no permanent change in status, and they will be simply returned to active duty afterward.  3. New moderators will be considered if the number of moderators falls below four, or if several moderators have taken extended leaves of absence. In the latter case, any new moderators will be "temporary" unless accepted by the returning members of the moderation panel. Additional "temporary" moderators will be added as required to handle various specialities, e.g. ancient mathematics, ancient physics, archaeoastronomy, linguistics, etc. If the volume of submissions warrants, such "temporary" moderators will be made permanent. People named as successors by retiring moderators will generally be given preference.  4. Moderators can be removed by a supermajority (as above) vote amongst the moderation panel (including the moderator in question). Abstentions will count as votes against removal.  5. If there is controversy amongst the moderators concerning the application of these guidelines, the moderation panel agrees to submit to binding arbitration by moderators-advice at UUNET. This situation covers true interpretive controversy, as well as such technical scenarios as: only two moderators, one wanting to remove the other; so many moderators on extended leave or genuinely unresponsive that the active panel cannot remove them to get on with business, etc.  6. Any votes or motions may be called into question by moderators returning from leaves of absence, though these ballots may be counted as abstentions in the interim.  7. All prospective moderators must agree to abide by these guidelines in their entirety before consideration for moderator status. By acting as a moderator, this point is implied, regardless of written confirmation.  Changes:  It requires unanimous approval of the moderation panel to change these guidelines; and, they must remain within the broad outlines given in the original CFV charter.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: sci.philosophy.natural  Moderator: Will Wagers <[email protected]>  END MODERATOR INFO.  HOW TO VOTE  Delete everything above the top "-=-=-" line and delete everything below the bottom -=-=-" line.  Do not change anything between these lines, except to add your name and vote.  Give your name on the line that asks for it.  For each group, put your vote in the brackets next to the group name.  Valid entries are ABSTAIN, CANCEL, NO, and YES.  Anything else may generate an invalid vote.  Don't worry about changes in spacing or any quote characters (">") that your reply may insert.  Mail the ballot to <[email protected]>.  Just replying to this should work, but check the "To:" line.  Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited ballots is considered vote fraud.  Only one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Votes will be acknowleged by e-mail.  If you have not received an acknowledgement within a few days, contact the votetaker.  It is your responsibility to be certain your vote has been recorded correctly.  If you want to change your vote, you may vote again, but only the latest vote will be counted. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final vote ack.  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of people who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted in news.groups.  When in doubt, ask the votetaker.  -=-=- BEGINNING OF BALLOT: DELETE EVERYTHING ABOVE THIS LINE =-=-=-=-=-=-= This ballot is available only from      |       LAST CALL FOR VOTES      | postings in news.groups or by e-mail    |     SCI.PHILOSOPHY.NATURAL     | from the votetaker.  It is distributed  |                      | blank.  Votes are counted by computer,  ================================== and failure to use this ballot increases the possibility that the software will be unable to process your vote properly.  Do not edit this ballot except to add your name and indicate your vote.  These are examples of how to mark the ballot.  Do not vote here. [   YES   ] example.yes.vote [   NO    ] example.no.vote [ ABSTAIN ] example.abstain.vote [ CANCEL  ] example.cancel.vote  The placement of the word within the brackets is not important, but use the complete word, not just one letter.  Enter your name and indicate your vote in the spaces below. ------------------------------------------------------------------------  Give your real name here: If you do not give your real name, your vote may be rejected.  [Your Vote]  Group (Place your vote in the brackets next to the group) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  sci.philosophy.natural -=-=-=-=  END OF BALLOT: DELETE EVERYTHING BELOW THIS LINE  =-=-=-=-=-=-=  DISTRIBUTION:  In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, information about the CFV will be mailed to the following mailing lists.  ANCIEN-L, ANE, ARCH-L, H-IDEAS, INDOEUROPEAN-L, INDOLOGY, ISLAM-L, LEUCIPPUS, LITSCI-L, LT-ANTIQ, MEDSCI-L, SSREL-L, THEOLOG-L.  sci.philosophy.natural Bounce List - These votes have been counted ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                  Eleanor Robson [email protected]                                      Brett Holman [email protected]                                          Mikko J. Levanto  From [email protected] Fri Dec 15 11:27:16 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: David Bostwick <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.archaeology,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology,sci.archaeology,sci.astro,soc.history Subject: RESULT: sci.philosophy.natural moderated fails 101:41 Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: news.groups Date: 15 Dec 1995 11:27:13 -0500 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 394 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 13 Dec 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]>,<[email protected]> Reply-To: David Bostwick <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: sci.philosophy.natural Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8016 news.groups:179264 alt.archaeology:1996 alt.mythology:23420 sci.anthropology:20324 sci.archaeology:34942 sci.astro:111646 soc.history:62500                                  RESULT          moderated group sci.philosophy.natural fails 101:41  There were 101 YES votes and 41 NO votes, for a total of 142 valid votes. There was 1 abstain and 6 invalid ballots.  For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.  There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the group may not be voted on again for six months.  Newsgroups line: sci.philosophy.natural	Ancient natural philosophy. (Moderated)  The voting period ended at 23:59:59 UTC, 12 Dec 1995.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Will Wagers <[email protected]> Mentor:  Mark James <[email protected]> Votetaker: David Bostwick <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: sci.philosophy.natural  sci.philosophy.natural will meet a long-standing demand for a moderated newsgroup for the scholarly discussion of and publications on ancient natural philosophy (science) without flames and without unfounded 'speculative' postings. The proposed newsgroup would not replace any existing groups. There is a small overlap with *many* existing newsgroups and mailing lists in that subjects appropriate to sci.philosophy.natural are occasionally discussed there. One purpose of sci.philosophy.natural is to bring these discussions under one roof to facilitate interdisciplinary scholarship. In some cases, this may result in offloading some traffic from high volume newsgroups and mailing lists. It would still leave any and all posters the forums that currently exist, so there is no question of denying anyone an outlet for their ideas. The small number of newsgroups and mailing lists which regularly deal with topics appropriate to sci.philosophy.natural may regard the proposed newsgroup as a means of publishing finished articles after the rounds of specialist comment and criticism have occurred.  Minority viewpoints are seldom embraced and are often actively discouraged on many specialist moderated newsgroups and mailing lists which are dominated by a small group of established "experts". sci.philosophy.natural welcomes minority and controversial viewpoints which are *justified by scholarship and which pass moderation*.  The number of potential readers is difficult to estimate due to the interdisciplinary nature of the group. However, a small survey for a single subject area encompassed by sci.philosophy.natural drew 132 interested readers or contributors. Many mailing lists from which sci.philosophy.natural would draw participation have 300+ members.  CHARTER: sci.philosophy.natural  sci.philosophy.natural shall be a moderated newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of and publications on ancient natural philosophy. All viewpoints and levels of knowledge are welcome, subject to the moderation policy described below. Because natural philosophy is such a broad subject and because lively debate on issues is encouraged, this group is moderated by a panel. Prospective articles are assigned to a moderator with skills appropriate for approval. This method will hopefully lead to the fastest turn-around time and least intrusion possible. Articles will *not* be rejected based on whether the moderator(s) disagree with the views expressed. The text itself will either be accepted as-is or rejected. In some cases, the moderator may suggest changes.  Moderation policy:  * Articles may be full-length or extracts, requests for information, announcements of relevance, etc. Lengthy quotation (more than 30 lines) of source material must be accompanied by commentary or by other text which ties it to on-going discussions. Articles which quote substantially the same source material repetitively will not be approved. Articles consisting of materials which are available on-line at ftp or WWW sites will not be approved, rather pointers to sites may be given. Moderator(s) may waive this rule at their discretion.  * Articles which contain personal attacks of any sort will not be approved for posting.  * Articles which confuse politics with other subjects will be refused.  * Flameless disagreements are welcome; but, if a thread looks as though it's never going to be resolved, the moderator(s) reserve the right to terminate it or suspend it until new evidence is produced.  * Blank messages, test messages, advertisements, MAKE.MONEY.FAST, binaries, uuencoded messages, and so forth, will not be approved posting.  * This is *not* a forum for the discussion of purely 'speculative' works, such as those of Von Daniken, etc. So if you want to post something arguing that aliens built the Pyramids, expect it to be rejected unless you can offer citations from accepted professional journals. You will still have the existing news groups in which to post.  * Moderator(s) may, at their discretion, change the Subject: lines for threads which have strayed from the initial subject.  * Articles which include excessive quoting (e.g. an article which quotes an entire other article in order to add a few comments at the end) will be trimmed by the moderator(s).  * An article *must* have a valid reply-to address or it will not be approved for posting.  * Cross-posting is strongly discouraged and requires a compelling reason for approval.  * Rejected articles which would be acceptable after editing will be returned to the poster with an explanation and suggestions for change. Articles rejected for other reasons may be shared with the other moderators for group consideration if the poster wishes to appeal.  * Any article that contains more than fifty percent quoted material (and the author's signature shall not count as original material for purposes of determining the proportion) may be trimmed or rejected at the discretion of the moderator(s). In exercising this discretion, the moderator(s) shall take readability considerations into account, such as the amount of quoted material at the beginning of the message, and the size of the blocks of quoted material. If the entire length of the article (excluding header and signature) is less than 24 lines of 80 characters, then the requirement of 50% original material may be waived at the moderator's discretion.  * In keeping with Usenet netiquette conventions, signatures should be restricted to 5 lines. Moderators may, at their discretion, trim signatures to four lines before posting articles. Signatures may not sport commercial, political, obscene, or contentious figures or slogans.  * Scholarly postings are considered the intellectual property of the poster. If you intend to quote original material, e.g. to another newsgroup or mailing list, permission must be sought from the original poster.  Moderators:  The proposer of the group is the initial moderator and is responsible for recruiting others. If the number of moderators fall below four (4), volunteers will be solicited. An automatic script will be used to share postings among the moderators.  It is important to have a clear policy to cover the possibility that there is conflict in the affairs of the moderation panel itself. It is generally believed that moderators will come and go throughout the course of the group, and in all cases the goal will be a consensus amongst the panel regarding the addition of new moderators. A standard group decision process will be followed: a motion will be made to add a new moderator, and if there are no objections it will go ahead. Friendly relations are certainly expected.  If there is an objection to a motion, and a group decision is not reached by discussion, a vote can be carried out in accordance with the statements below. In any of the following cases, a secret ballot may be requested -- and if a suitable (meaning: agreeably neutral) volunteer on the panel to collect the ballots cannot be found, will be carried out via point #5 below -- but voting will generally be public (within the confines of the moderation panel itself).  1. If it comes to a vote, new moderators must be approved by a supermajority (75% rounded downward, ie. two out of three moderators, eight out of eleven moderators, nine out of twelve moderators, etc.) amongst the moderation panel. Abstentions will not affect the outcome of this vote, meaning that a supermajority among voting moderators must be obtained. In the case of only two voting moderators who disagree, the prospective moderator will not be added.  2. Moderators who will be unavailable for more than a week are expected to have their names removed from the active file for that period. This implies no permanent change in status, and they will be simply returned to active duty afterward.  3. New moderators will be considered if the number of moderators falls below four, or if several moderators have taken extended leaves of absence. In the latter case, any new moderators will be "temporary" unless accepted by the returning members of the moderation panel. Additional "temporary" moderators will be added as required to handle various specialities, e.g. ancient mathematics, ancient physics, archaeoastronomy, linguistics, etc. If the volume of submissions warrants, such "temporary" moderators will be made permanent. People named as successors by retiring moderators will generally be given preference.  4. Moderators can be removed by a supermajority (as above) vote amongst the moderation panel (including the moderator in question). Abstentions will count as votes against removal.  5. If there is controversy amongst the moderators concerning the application of these guidelines, the moderation panel agrees to submit to binding arbitration by moderators-advice at UUNET. This situation covers true interpretive controversy, as well as such technical scenarios as: only two moderators, one wanting to remove the other; so many moderators on extended leave or genuinely unresponsive that the active panel cannot remove them to get on with business, etc.  6. Any votes or motions may be called into question by moderators returning >from  leaves of absence, though these ballots may be counted as abstentions in the interim.  7. All prospective moderators must agree to abide by these guidelines in their entirety before consideration for moderator status. By acting as a moderator, this point is implied, regardless of written confirmation.  Changes:  It requires unanimous approval of the moderation panel to change these guidelines; and, they must remain within the broad outlines given in the original CFV charter.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: sci.philosophy.natural  Moderator: Will Wagers <[email protected]>  END MODERATOR INFO.  DISTRIBUTION:  In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, information about the CFV will be mailed to the following mailing lists.  ANCIEN-L, ANE, ARCH-L, H-IDEAS, INDOEUROPEAN-L, INDOLOGY, ISLAM-L, LEUCIPPUS, LITSCI-L, LT-ANTIQ, MEDSCI-L, SSREL-L, THEOLOG-L.  sci.philosophy.natural Final Vote Ack  Voted Yes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                        Mike Bispham [email protected]                                               Mick Taylor [email protected]                                                 John Missing [email protected]                                                 Allen W. Thrasher [email protected]                                         Mike Bagneski [email protected]                                                   Jeff P Gassaway [email protected]                                         Dr Bruce Scott [email protected]                                              Bob Kobres [email protected]                                             Hermann Bluhme [email protected]                                              Rob N. Johnson [email protected]                                                     Jon Bosak [email protected]                                             R Brzustowicz [email protected]                                              Charles H. Camp [email protected]                                          RICK HAUSER [email protected]                                              Charles L Hamilton [email protected]                                        Craig Martin Levin [email protected]                                    Ira B. Cottrell [email protected]                                        Doug Weller [email protected]                                                  Hugh Swan [email protected]                  Eleanor Robson [email protected]                                         Elliot Richmond [email protected]                                        Edward J. Montes [email protected]                                                  Ernie Floyd [email protected]                                        Gordon Fisher [email protected]                                      Dietmar FLORIANI [email protected]                              Georg von Simson gan[email protected]                                         Paul J. Gans [email protected]                                              George Girod [email protected]                                         George Sullivan-Davis [email protected]                                          James Harvey [email protected]                                            William R Ward [email protected]                                            Henry Groover [email protected]                                      Brett Holman [email protected]                                         Hope Anthony [email protected]                                          Arlene Hopkins [email protected]                                                     Ira Monarch [email protected]                                                 Angelique Pearcy [email protected]                                         Joseph Bellina [email protected]                                            John L. King [email protected]                                                     Jim Braun [email protected]                                             James McGarry [email protected]                                      jon ivar skullerud [email protected]                                       J. Porter Clark [email protected]                                      Kenneth I. Mayer [email protected]                                              Kim DeVaughn [email protected]                                                  Kathy McClure [email protected]                                              Keith Rogers [email protected]                                    Lance Fletcher [email protected]                                                Lance Chun [email protected]                                                 Lenny Gray [email protected]                                                Mick Brown [email protected]                                  Martin Schr"oder [email protected]                                              Beatrice Reusch [email protected]                                                Gino Roncaglia [email protected]                                               M.Chidambaram [email protected]                                            John M. McMahon [email protected]                           Mezzabotta, MR, Margaret, Dr [email protected]                          Michael Harrington-George [email protected]                                  Sean Broadley [email protected]                                        Chris Clayton [email protected]                                                  Maria Loren [email protected]                                                 Mike Daniels [email protected]                                           n.whyte [email protected]                                                  Neil Thompson [email protected]                                        Norman E. Andrews [email protected]                             Peter Metcalfe [email protected]                                              Trevor Tymchuk [email protected]                                        James Petts [email protected]                                            Petra Prinz [email protected]                                                   Anthony Rolloff [email protected]                                                  Lois Shawver [email protected]                                 Ronald M. Carrier [email protected]                                           Richard C. Schmidt [email protected]                                       Dennis Redfield [email protected]                                    Rick Ellison [email protected]                                              R. Jeffrey Grace [email protected]                                           BOB HUGHES [email protected]                                    Roberto Romagnoli [email protected]                                            J. Rufinus [email protected]                                                     Rega Wood [email protected]                                                 Philip Rychel [email protected]                                       Ricardo J. Salvador [email protected]                                               Bruce Tindall [email protected]                                            Jonathan Smith [email protected]                                                   Dan Birchall [email protected]                                              John M Sorvari [email protected]                                                  Speaker Allen [email protected]                                         Adam Sundor [email protected]                                               L. SWARTZ [email protected]                                                 tony bosch [email protected]                                          Tim Hegedus [email protected]                                                     Michael Allred [email protected]                                  Ursula Suzanne Kirkland [email protected]                                             Hank van Cleef [email protected]                                     Warren Sanderson [email protected]                                                Will Wagers [email protected]                                       Robert R. Wellman [email protected]                                         Willaim H. Reid [email protected]              William S. Snyder (Bill Snyder) [email protected]                                          Kent Paul Dolan [email protected]                                              Christine Norstrand  Voted No ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                         Andrew Fabbro [email protected]                                              A.G.Weiss [email protected]                                                   Balaji [email protected]                                           Carol A. Bocher [email protected]                                                     Michael Borek [email protected]                                               Brian Bresnahan [email protected]                                            Brian D Sammon [email protected]                                                 Jeffrey Cohen [email protected]                                               Michiel Wijers [email protected]                                       David Pfitzner [email protected]                                             Don Ballard [email protected]                                       William Affleck-Asch [email protected]                         Gerhard Wiesenfeldt [email protected]                                             Enrica Garzilli [email protected]                                       Heinrich C. Kuhn [email protected]                                              Hugo R. Landsman [email protected]                                      Jan Coekelberghs [email protected]                             Jvrg Plate [email protected]                                                John Leslie [email protected]                                              Kevin Mitchell [email protected]                                  J"org Knappen [email protected]                                            Charles Lane [email protected]                                           Ludovico Magnocavallo [email protected]                                                   Mark Milem [email protected]                                             Todd Michel McComb [email protected]                                             Andrew McNab [email protected]                                              Arthur T. Murray [email protected]                                          Mikko J. Levanto [email protected]                                            Patrick Mock [email protected]                                               Ken Nelson [email protected]                                           Patrick J. LoPresti [email protected]                                                Pete Bastien [email protected]                                                Richard Miller [email protected]                                               G. Ryan [email protected]                                    Shrisha Rao [email protected]                                         Smarasderagd [email protected]                                                  Dwight Brown [email protected]                                           J. Stick [email protected]                             Todd C. Lawson [email protected]                                         Risto Widenius [email protected]                                                 Dick Wisan  Abstained ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                     K. Crouch   Votes in error ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                         Carl Alexander    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                                   Howard I. Cohen    ! No ballot [email protected]                                                David Zincavage    ! No ballot [email protected]                                             monteagudo    ! No ballot [email protected]                                                  Paul Sarkar    ! No ballot [email protected]                                     Keith Brazington    ! Invalid address