• Your Trusted Usenet Provider
  • Secure, Private, Unlimited

Newsgroups Main » Newsgroups Directory » Science and Technology

Science ( sci.edu )
 
From [email protected] Thu Oct 21 02:13:51 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Kenneth S. Manning, PhD)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.engr
Subject: RFD: sci.engr.edu
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: sci.engr.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:03:58 GMT
Lines: 115
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11181 news.groups:330758 sci.engr:41032

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
                    unmoderated group sci.engr.edu

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup sci.engr.edu. This is not a
Call For Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details
are below.

Newsgroup line:
sci.engr.edu		Topics in engineering education.

RATIONALE: sci.engr.edu

There are over forty newsgroups in the sci.engr.* hierarchy, but all
are intended mostly for the discussion of topics concerning the
practicing engineer. Several mention educational issues in their
charters as anticipated topics, but none address the teaching of
engineering as separate from the issues that would interest the
practicing of engineering.

The newsgroup sci.engr.edu would be a forum for issues about
engineering education and related topics such as math and science
education of engineers, textbook selection, class administration,
promotion and tenure, laboratories, and problems teaching engineering
students. There are currently over 12,000 members of the American
Society for Engineering Education, which is supporting this proposal.
The biweekly Listserv "Tomorrow's Professor" has over 6,000 members in
61 countries, and is primarily for educators in any science and
engineering field. It is one of the few resources open to those
looking for a public forum in which to discuss issues related to
becoming (or remaining) a professor. The Gradschools.com lists 25
separate engineering related forums. The website, Onelist
(http://www.onelist.com/), has over 316 engineering-related groups,
about 75% of which are directly related to classes, education, and/or
universities. While this indicates the strength of the interest in
engineering education topics most are restricted in membership,
illuminating the need for a public, more universal forum.

Sci.engr is the one generic engineering group currently in existence.
Though educational topics are welcome, it is predominantly a forum for
topics of interest to the practicing engineer. Topics such as
professional licensing, manufacturing standards, consulting, and
design software are best discussed in sci.engr or in the more specific
engineering groups like sci.engr.civil.roads . Posting of topics
related specifically to the teaching of engineering dilute the focus
of those groups and cause engineering education topics to be spread
over the many groups perhaps arbitrarily chosen by the poster. This
makes it very difficult for a new professor to find help from a
broader more experienced audience.

CHARTER: sci.engr.edu

The newsgroup sci.engr.edu is a forum for issues related to the
teaching and learning of engineering at all levels. Engineering
education topics will include, but not be limited to, classroom
techniques, administration, promotion and tenure, serving on
committees, educational psychology, enrollment, recruitment,
retention, textbooks, grant writing, accreditation, and examination
design. Other topics might include recruiting, retaining, and guiding
teaching and research assistants. It is not intended to be a technical
forum where current research topics are discussed.

This is not intended to be a resource for students to get help on
homework or projects. The teacher of the student best handles such
requests. However, these requests have been welcome in the other
sci.engr.* groups since they are often discipline-specific.

The group sci.engr.edu can be a place for students to inquire into the
nature of being an engineering student, especially an undergraduate
inquiring about life in graduate school.

Advertisements for commercial products are discouraged.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for
a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal is to be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD has been posted to:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
sci.engr

Additional copies of the RFD are at:
http://www.rpi.edu/~mannik/charter.html
the website http://scientistlifeboat.com/
the open forum http://www.gradschools.com

Additional pointers to this RFD will be posted to:
All members of the American Society for Engineering Education
misc.education.science
sci.engr.civil
sci.engr.mech
sci.engr.chem
sci.edu

Proponent: Kenneth S. Manning, PhD <[email protected]>
Mentor: Joshua Kramer <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 04:13:02 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Kenneth S. Manning, PhD)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.engr
Subject: 2nd RFD: sci.engr.education
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: sci.engr.education
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:08:23 GMT
Lines: 140
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11195 news.groups:332717 sci.engr:41296

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
                 unmoderated group sci.engr.education

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup sci.engr.education. This is
not a Call For Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural
details are below.

Newsgroup line:
sci.engr.education	Topics in engineering education.

CHANGES from previous RFD:

1) Group name was changed from sci.engr.edu to sci.engr.education.
2) The rationale was expanded.
3) The charter was modified to clarify certain points.

RATIONALE: sci.engr.education

There are over forty newsgroups in the sci.engr.* hierarchy, but all
are intended mostly for the discussion of topics concerning the
practicing engineer. Several mention educational issues in their
charters as anticipated topics, but none address the teaching of
engineering as separate from the issues that would interest the
practicing of engineering.

The newsgroup sci.engr.education would be a forum for issues about
engineering education and related topics such as math and science
education of engineers, textbook selection, class administration,
promotion and tenure, laboratories, and problems teaching engineering
students.

A search (dated: Oct. 21, 1999 through a Dejanews power search) of
recent posts in the existing sci.engr.* hierarchy found the following
keywords appearing: 'education' 1200 times, 'professor' 700 times,
'teach' 800 times, 'classroom' 47 times, and 'class' 1100 times
(clearly that last one can carry many different meanings; perhaps a
third were related to an engineering class at a school.  One recent
string concerning the use of hand-calculations in class instruction
carried over 400 posts.  Even a staunch opponent to the formation of
this group, admitted in the first RFD discussion, that "the traffic
appears to be there" (full text at
http://www.rpi.edu/~mannik/traffic.htm).

There are currently over 12,000 members of the American
Society for Engineering Education, which is supporting this proposal.
The biweekly Listserv "Tomorrow's Professor" has over 6,000 members
In 61 countries, and is primarily for educators in any science and
engineering field. It is one of the few resources open to those
looking for a public forum in which to discuss issues related to
becoming (or remaining) a professor. The Gradschools.com lists 25
separate engineering related forums. The website, Onelist
(http://www.onelist.com/), has over 316 engineering-related groups,
about 75% of which are directly related to classes, education, and/or
universities. While this indicates the strength of the interest in
engineering education topics most are restricted in membership,
illuminating the need for a public, more universal forum.

Sci.engr is the one generic engineering group currently in
existence. Though educational topics appear welcome, it is
predominantly a forum for topics of interest to the practicing
engineer.

Topics such as professional licensing, manufacturing standards,
consulting, and design software are best discussed in sci.engr or
in the more specific engineering groups like sci.engr.civil.roads .
Posting of topics related specifically to the teaching of engineering
dilute the focus of those groups and cause engineering education
topics to be spread over the many groups perhaps arbitrarily chosen
by the poster. This makes it very difficult for a new professor to
find help from a broader more experienced audience.

CHARTER: sci.engr.education

The newsgroup sci.engr.education is a forum for issues related to the
teaching and learning of engineering at all levels. Engineering
education topics will include, but not be limited to, classroom
techniques, administration, promotion and tenure, serving on
committees, educational psychology, enrollment, recruitment,
retention, textbooks, grant writing, accreditation, and examination
design. Other topics might include recruiting, retaining, and guiding
teaching and research assistants. It is not intended to be a technical
forum where current research topics and results are discussed.

This is not intended to be a resource for students to get help on
homework or projects. The teacher of the student best handles such
requests. However, when well-formed with some forethought these
requests have been welcome in the other sci.engr.* groups since
they are often discipline-specific.

The group sci.engr.education will be a place for students to inquire
into the nature of being an engineering student, especially an
undergraduate inquiring about life in graduate school.

Advertisements for commercial products are discouraged.

The general guidelines of Usenet Posting will be followed.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for
a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal is to be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD has been posted to:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
sci.engr

Additional copies of the RFD are at:
http://www.rpi.edu/~mannik/charter.html
the website http://scientistlifeboat.com/
the open forum http://www.gradschools.com

Additional pointers to this RFD will be posted to:
All members of the American Society for Engineering Education
misc.education.science
sci.engr.civil
sci.engr.mech
sci.engr.chem
sci.edu

Proponent: Kenneth S. Manning, PhD <[email protected]>
Mentor: Joshua Kramer <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Mon Nov 22 13:28:38 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.engr
Subject: CFV: sci.engr.education
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 14 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: sci.engr.education
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 21:18:49 GMT
Lines: 184
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11222 news.groups:335425 sci.engr:41686

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                 unmoderated group sci.engr.education

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:
sci.engr.education	Topics in engineering education.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 13 Dec 1999.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Kenneth S. Manning, PhD <[email protected]>
Mentor: Joshua Kramer <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: sci.engr.education

There are over forty newsgroups in the sci.engr.* hierarchy, but all are
intended mostly for the discussion of topics concerning the practicing
engineer. Several mention educational issues in their charters as
anticipated topics, but none address the teaching of engineering as separate
from the issues that would interest the practicing of engineering.

The newsgroup sci.engr.education would be a forum for issues about
engineering education and related topics such as math and science education
of engineers, textbook selection, class administration, promotion and
tenure, laboratories, and problems teaching engineering students.

A search (dated: Oct. 21, 1999 through a Dejanews power search) of recent
posts in the existing sci.engr.* hierarchy found the following keywords
appearing: 'education' 1200 times, 'professor' 700 times, 'teach' 800 times,
'classroom' 47 times, and 'class' 1100 times (clearly that last one can
carry many different meanings; perhaps a third were related to an
engineering class at a school.  One recent string concerning the use of
hand-calculations in class instruction carried over 900 posts.  Even a
staunch opponent to the formation of this group, admitted in the first RFD
discussion, that "the traffic appears to be there" (full text at
http://www.rpi.edu/~mannik/traffic.htm).

There are currently over 12,000 members of the American Society for
Engineering Education, which is supporting this proposal.
The biweekly Listserv "Tomorrow's Professor" has over 6,000 members in 61
countries, and is primarily for educators in any science and engineering
field. It is one of the few resources open to those looking for a public
forum in which to discuss issues related to becoming (or remaining) a
professor. The Gradschools.com lists 25 separate engineering related forums.
The website, Onelist (http://www.onelist.com/), has over 316
engineering-related groups, about 75% of which are directly related to
classes, education, and/or universities. While this indicates the strength
of the interest in engineering education topics most are restricted in
membership, illuminating the need for a public, more universal forum.

Sci.engr is the one generic engineering group currently in existence. Though
educational topics appear welcome, it is
predominantly a forum for topics of interest to the practicing engineer, and
the charter no longer exists.

Topics such as professional licensing, manufacturing standards, consulting,
and design software are best discussed in sci.engr or in the more specific
engineering groups like sci.engr.civil.roads .  Posting of topics related
specifically to the teaching of engineering dilute the focus of those groups
and cause engineering education topics to be spread over the many groups
perhaps arbitrarily chosen by the poster. This makes it very difficult for a
new professor to find help from a broader more experienced audience.

CHARTER: sci.engr.education

The newsgroup sci.engr.education is a forum for issues related to the
teaching and learning of engineering at all levels. Engineering education
topics will include, but not be limited to, classroom techniques,
administration, promotion and tenure, serving on committees, educational
psychology, enrollment, recruitment, retention, textbooks, grant writing,
accreditation, and examination design. Other topics might include
recruiting, retaining, and guiding teaching and research assistants. It is
not intended to be a technical forum where current research topics and
results are discussed.

This is not intended to be a resource for students to get help on homework
or projects. The teacher of the student best handles such requests. However,
when well-formed with some forethought these requests have been welcome in
the other sci.engr.* groups since they are often discipline-specific.

The group sci.engr.education will be a place for students to inquire into
the nature of being an engineering student, especially an undergraduate
inquiring about life in graduate school.  Advertisements for commercial
products are discouraged.

The general guidelines of Usenet Posting will be followed.

END CHARTER.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent
accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged"
address he cannot decipher immediately.

Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.

If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: sci.engr.education
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <SEE-0001> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  sci.engr.education

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

DISTRIBUTION:

Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:

misc.education.science
sci.edu
sci.engr.chem
sci.engr.civil
sci.engr.mech

This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999).
PQ datestamp: 980322

-- 
Voting address: [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Dec  2 11:29:23 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.engr
Subject: 2nd CFV: sci.engr.education
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 14 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: sci.engr.education
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 19:26:20 GMT
Lines: 188
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11235 news.groups:336395 sci.engr:41794

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                 unmoderated group sci.engr.education

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:
sci.engr.education	Topics in engineering education.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 13 Dec 1999.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Kenneth S. Manning, PhD <[email protected]>
Mentor: Joshua Kramer <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: sci.engr.education

There are over forty newsgroups in the sci.engr.* hierarchy, but all are
intended mostly for the discussion of topics concerning the practicing
engineer. Several mention educational issues in their charters as
anticipated topics, but none address the teaching of engineering as separate
from the issues that would interest the practicing of engineering.

The newsgroup sci.engr.education would be a forum for issues about
engineering education and related topics such as math and science education
of engineers, textbook selection, class administration, promotion and
tenure, laboratories, and problems teaching engineering students.

A search (dated: Oct. 21, 1999 through a Dejanews power search) of recent
posts in the existing sci.engr.* hierarchy found the following keywords
appearing: 'education' 1200 times, 'professor' 700 times, 'teach' 800 times,
'classroom' 47 times, and 'class' 1100 times (clearly that last one can
carry many different meanings; perhaps a third were related to an
engineering class at a school.  One recent string concerning the use of
hand-calculations in class instruction carried over 900 posts.  Even a
staunch opponent to the formation of this group, admitted in the first RFD
discussion, that "the traffic appears to be there" (full text at
http://www.rpi.edu/~mannik/traffic.htm).

There are currently over 12,000 members of the American Society for
Engineering Education, which is supporting this proposal.
The biweekly Listserv "Tomorrow's Professor" has over 6,000 members in 61
countries, and is primarily for educators in any science and engineering
field. It is one of the few resources open to those looking for a public
forum in which to discuss issues related to becoming (or remaining) a
professor. The Gradschools.com lists 25 separate engineering related forums.
The website, Onelist (http://www.onelist.com/), has over 316
engineering-related groups, about 75% of which are directly related to
classes, education, and/or universities. While this indicates the strength
of the interest in engineering education topics most are restricted in
membership, illuminating the need for a public, more universal forum.

Sci.engr is the one generic engineering group currently in existence. Though
educational topics appear welcome, it is
predominantly a forum for topics of interest to the practicing engineer, and
the charter no longer exists.

Topics such as professional licensing, manufacturing standards, consulting,
and design software are best discussed in sci.engr or in the more specific
engineering groups like sci.engr.civil.roads .  Posting of topics related
specifically to the teaching of engineering dilute the focus of those groups
and cause engineering education topics to be spread over the many groups
perhaps arbitrarily chosen by the poster. This makes it very difficult for a
new professor to find help from a broader more experienced audience.

CHARTER: sci.engr.education

The newsgroup sci.engr.education is a forum for issues related to the
teaching and learning of engineering at all levels. Engineering education
topics will include, but not be limited to, classroom techniques,
administration, promotion and tenure, serving on committees, educational
psychology, enrollment, recruitment, retention, textbooks, grant writing,
accreditation, and examination design. Other topics might include
recruiting, retaining, and guiding teaching and research assistants. It is
not intended to be a technical forum where current research topics and
results are discussed.

This is not intended to be a resource for students to get help on homework
or projects. The teacher of the student best handles such requests. However,
when well-formed with some forethought these requests have been welcome in
the other sci.engr.* groups since they are often discipline-specific.

The group sci.engr.education will be a place for students to inquire into
the nature of being an engineering student, especially an undergraduate
inquiring about life in graduate school.  Advertisements for commercial
products are discouraged.

The general guidelines of Usenet Posting will be followed.

END CHARTER.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent
accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged"
address he cannot decipher immediately.

Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.

If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: sci.engr.education
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <SEE-0002> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  sci.engr.education

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

DISTRIBUTION:

Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:

misc.education.science
sci.edu
sci.engr.chem
sci.engr.civil
sci.engr.mech

sci.engr.education Bounce List - Please contact me about your vote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                              darren smith

This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999).
PQ datestamp: 980322

-- 
Voting address: [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Dec 14 09:15:03 1999
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.engr
Subject: RESULT: sci.engr.education fails 44:20
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: sci.engr.education
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:09:04 GMT
Lines: 195
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11248 news.groups:337466 sci.engr:41896

                                RESULT
           unmoderated group sci.engr.education fails 44:20

There were 44 YES votes and 20 NO votes, for a total of 64 valid
votes.  There were 5 abstentions and 1 invalid ballot.

For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
(YES and NO) votes.  There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes.

A five day discussion period follows this announcement.  Unless
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the group
may not be voted on again for six months.

Newsgroups line:
sci.engr.education	Topics in engineering education.

The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 13 Dec 1999.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Kenneth S. Manning, PhD <[email protected]>
Mentor: Joshua Kramer <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: sci.engr.education

There are over forty newsgroups in the sci.engr.* hierarchy, but all are
intended mostly for the discussion of topics concerning the practicing
engineer. Several mention educational issues in their charters as
anticipated topics, but none address the teaching of engineering as separate
from the issues that would interest the practicing of engineering.

The newsgroup sci.engr.education would be a forum for issues about
engineering education and related topics such as math and science education
of engineers, textbook selection, class administration, promotion and
tenure, laboratories, and problems teaching engineering students.

A search (dated: Oct. 21, 1999 through a Dejanews power search) of recent
posts in the existing sci.engr.* hierarchy found the following keywords
appearing: 'education' 1200 times, 'professor' 700 times, 'teach' 800 times,
'classroom' 47 times, and 'class' 1100 times (clearly that last one can
carry many different meanings; perhaps a third were related to an
engineering class at a school.  One recent string concerning the use of
hand-calculations in class instruction carried over 900 posts.  Even a
staunch opponent to the formation of this group, admitted in the first RFD
discussion, that "the traffic appears to be there" (full text at
http://www.rpi.edu/~mannik/traffic.htm).

There are currently over 12,000 members of the American Society for
Engineering Education, which is supporting this proposal.
The biweekly Listserv "Tomorrow's Professor" has over 6,000 members in 61
countries, and is primarily for educators in any science and engineering
field. It is one of the few resources open to those looking for a public
forum in which to discuss issues related to becoming (or remaining) a
professor. The Gradschools.com lists 25 separate engineering related forums.
The website, Onelist (http://www.onelist.com/), has over 316
engineering-related groups, about 75% of which are directly related to
classes, education, and/or universities. While this indicates the strength
of the interest in engineering education topics most are restricted in
membership, illuminating the need for a public, more universal forum.

Sci.engr is the one generic engineering group currently in existence. Though
educational topics appear welcome, it is
predominantly a forum for topics of interest to the practicing engineer, and
the charter no longer exists.

Topics such as professional licensing, manufacturing standards, consulting,
and design software are best discussed in sci.engr or in the more specific
engineering groups like sci.engr.civil.roads .  Posting of topics related
specifically to the teaching of engineering dilute the focus of those groups
and cause engineering education topics to be spread over the many groups
perhaps arbitrarily chosen by the poster. This makes it very difficult for a
new professor to find help from a broader more experienced audience.

CHARTER: sci.engr.education

The newsgroup sci.engr.education is a forum for issues related to the
teaching and learning of engineering at all levels. Engineering education
topics will include, but not be limited to, classroom techniques,
administration, promotion and tenure, serving on committees, educational
psychology, enrollment, recruitment, retention, textbooks, grant writing,
accreditation, and examination design. Other topics might include
recruiting, retaining, and guiding teaching and research assistants. It is
not intended to be a technical forum where current research topics and
results are discussed.

This is not intended to be a resource for students to get help on homework
or projects. The teacher of the student best handles such requests. However,
when well-formed with some forethought these requests have been welcome in
the other sci.engr.* groups since they are often discipline-specific.

The group sci.engr.education will be a place for students to inquire into
the nature of being an engineering student, especially an undergraduate
inquiring about life in graduate school.  Advertisements for commercial
products are discouraged.

The general guidelines of Usenet Posting will be followed.

END CHARTER.



sci.engr.education Final Voter list

NOTE:  This is not [to be used as] a mailing list.  The email addresses
are posted only to help verify the interest poll.  Thank you.

Voted YES
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
speirs [at] chebucto.ns.ca                                  Robert J.N. Speirs
trevort [at] vianet.on.ca                                       Trevor Tymchuk
kimdv [at] best.com                                               Kim DeVaughn
eridani [at] databasix.com                                             Belinda
mcclenon [at] erols.com                                           Bob McClenon
smlucas [at] famvid.com                                           Steven Lucas
ecb11 [at] cvip.fresno.com                                         Earl Bengel
toejam_78 [at] hotmail.com                                     Toejamm Sniffer
hollyking [at] inetarena.com                                  Brendan Van Horn
ndallen [at] interlog.com                                          Nigel Allen
wiz [at] lart.com                                                   Mike Craig
fran_keeling [at] my-Deja.com                                     Fran Keeling
mrkwscha [at] ix.netcom.com                                  Mark W. Schaeffer
jepace [at] pobox.com                                            James E. Pace
xanthian [at] well.com                                         Kent Paul Dolan
Ekkehard.Uthke [at] gmx.de                                      Ekkehard Uthke
bouvin [at] daimi.au.dk                                      Niels Olof Bouvin
rajwi [at] engc.bu.edu                                         rajwinder singh
hfung [at] csupomona.edu                                             Hank Fung
honor.jones.passow [at] alum.mit.edu                              Honor Passow
dscaldin [at] lynx.dac.neu.edu                          Dolores Scaldini-Klimm
stewart [at] ceet.niu.edu                               James R Stewart, Ph.D.
dutild [at] rpi.edu                                                David Dutil
lagunc [at] rpi.edu                                        Corey A. Lagunowich
mannik [at] rpi.edu                                                Ken Manning
jkramer [at] sccs.swarthmore.edu                                 Joshua Kramer
asterian [at] eecs.umich.edu                                    Andrew Sterian
astewart [at] umr.edu                                             Andy Stewart
robert.henry [at] unh.edu                                      Robert M. Henry
robsmith [at] u.washington.edu                                 Robert P. Smith
rufinus [at] mbe.ece.wisc.edu                                        J Rufinus
porter.clark [at] msfc.nasa.gov                                J. Porter Clark
fwbrown [at] bellsouth.net                                         Wayne Brown
robert3447 [at] earthlink.net                                    Robert Marcom
ellis [at] ftel.net                                                 Rick Ellis
jmh [at] gmx.net                                                      Jan Haar
wakelyn [at] pinn.net                                            N. T. Wakelyn
flotte [at] stratos.net                                             Fred Lotte
Peter-Lawrence.Montgomery [at] cwi.nl                      Peter L. Montgomery
boud [at] rempt.xs4all.nl                                      Boudewijn Rempt
rossde [at] acm.org                                                 David Ross
kb5cng [at] amsat.org                                         R.L. Bo Thompson
pmelo [at] fe.uc.pt                                                 Paulo Melo
alex.dawson [at] uea.ac.uk                                         Alex Dawson

Voted NO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ru [at] cls.usask.ca                                               Ru Igarashi
libertyeng [at] aol.com                                          Jan M. Harris
sforsell [at] aol.com                                            Scott Forsell
stainles [at] bga.com                                             Dwight Brown
janus [at] cwo.com                                                 Keith Adams
julesd [at] erols.com                                             Jules Dubois
rockwallaby [at] erols.com                             Christopher B. Thompson
evandro [at] geocities.com                                     Evandro Menezes
bblair [at] home.com                                               Bruce Blair
gprrspw [at] mindspring.com                                          G.P. Ryan
olav [at] viking.mv.com                                        Olav Nieuwejaar
source [at] netcom.com                                            David Harmon
chriseb [at] nortelnetworks.com                                 Chris Ebenezer
spam-eater [at] pobox.com                                           Karl Meyer
naddy [at] mips.rhein-neckar.de                           Christian Weisgerber
rick [at] bcm.tmc.edu                                           Richard Miller
mmontcha [at] OregonVOS.net                                 Matthew Montchalin
egruf [at] visi.net                                              Edward G. Ruf
kate [at] haven.eyrie.org
fulleraaron [at] ukonline.co.uk                                   Aaron Fuller

Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
luis0liveira [at] hotmail.com                                    Luis Oliveira
chris [at] kzim.com                                Christopher Robin Zimmerman
jefferys [at] logopolis.com                                      Jefferson Eng
evert [at] royal.net                                              Evert Meulie
peteralf [at] softhome.net                                     Peter Alfredsen

Invalid votes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
someone [at] somewhere.com                                        darren smith
    ! Invalid address: user not known


-- 
Neil Crellin, UVV <[email protected]>
 
USENET FACT: Kill File
A set of filters setup to determine which user's posts will be read/downloaded or ignored.