• Your Trusted Usenet Provider
  • Secure, Private, Unlimited

Newsgroups Main » Newsgroups Directory » Science and Technology

Languages, natural ( sci.lang )
 
From [email protected] Sat Apr  4 03:18:09 1992
Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1872 news.groups:40038 sci.lang:11611 soc.culture.china:63638 aus.culture.china:1021
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.lang,soc.culture.china,aus.culture.china
Path: rpi!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Garry Russel Burgess)
Subject: RFD:  sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: news.groups
Keywords: chinese language mandarin
Sender: [email protected]
Nntp-Posting-Host: cs.rpi.edu
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1992 04:57:40 GMT
Approved: [email protected]
Lines: 12

There seems to be a void in the newsnet for people interested in learning
the Chinese (Mandarin) language.

This newsgroup would help each other with questions of grammar, vocabulary,
idiom etc about the Chinese language.

It's that simple.  Why does everyone else write pages and pages of nonsense.
That's what I suggest, what do you net people think of the idea?

Why not call it: sci.lang.chinese

Garry

From [email protected] Tue Sep 12 10:46:12 1995
Xref: rpi news.announce.newgroups:1872 news.groups:40038 sci.lang:11611 soc.culture.china:63638 aus.culture.china:1021
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.lang,soc.culture.china,aus.culture.china
Path: rpi!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Garry Russel Burgess)
Subject: RFD:  sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: news.groups
Keywords: chinese language mandarin
Sender: [email protected]
Nntp-Posting-Host: cs.rpi.edu
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1992 04:57:40 GMT
Approved: [email protected]
Lines: 12
Status: RO
X-Status: 

There seems to be a void in the newsnet for people interested in learning
the Chinese (Mandarin) language.

This newsgroup would help each other with questions of grammar, vocabulary,
idiom etc about the Chinese language.

It's that simple.  Why does everyone else write pages and pages of nonsense.
That's what I suggest, what do you net people think of the idea?

Why not call it: sci.lang.chinese

Garry


From [email protected] Wed Oct  8 19:00:06 1997
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.text,sci.lang,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: RFD: sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 01:48:14 GMT
Lines: 103
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:833

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
                  unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup sci.lang.chinese.  This is
not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural
details are below.

Newsgroup line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions
about the discussion of the scientific or historical study of human
language(s).  Presumably this would cover all languages in existence,
including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects
that exist, as well as the complicated ideographic-based writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related
to the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  I have found it to be an invaluable
resource for my own learning process.

I believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from
the proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang,
there are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.
The alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the
Big-7 groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in
the Chinese character set.

I believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck) because
Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include Taiwan,
Singapore, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively Chinese.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific or historical study of the Chinese language
including all dialects.  Other appropriate topics of discussion could
include grammatical constructions, language learning tips, teaching
opportunities, issues in translation, software/hardware information for
employing the written character set on computing platforms; other
related issues.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question
can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where
applicable to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense
are not appropriate in this group.  The general "nettiquete" FAQs
posted in news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to
sci.lang.chinese

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and
"How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to
these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have
any questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

alt.chinese.text
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
sci.lang
soc.culture.china
soc.culture.hongkong
soc.culture.singapore
soc.culture.taiwan

Proponent: Steve Frampton <3srf(@)qlink.queensu.ca>

[From: header modified to thwart e-mail spam.  See .sig for details]

----------------< LINUX: The choice of a GNU generation. >----------------
Steve Frampton   <3srf(@)qlink.queensu.ca>   http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3srf
----------- Please remove .FOOBAR from address before replying. ----------

From [email protected] Mon Oct 20 12:15:11 1997
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.computing,alt.chinese.text,sci.lang,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: 2nd RFD: sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:09:59 GMT
Lines: 140
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:875

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
                  unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup sci.lang.chinese.  This is
not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural
details are below.

Newsgroup line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

CHANGES from previous RFD:

Several comments were made that the charter of the 1st RFD, as worded, did
not sound as if it was appropriate for the sci.lang.* heirarchy.  It
should be noted that the 1st wording was a proposed charter only, and the
proponents made every effort to change the wording of the charter to
answer the criticisms that were made.  The main change was a new listing
of appropriate topics that are specific to Chinese linguistics.

Also, sections on Chinese character encoding, transcription schemes, and
language usage were added to the charter to answer any questions people
may have on these subjects.

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions about
the scientific or historical study of human language(s).  Presumably this
would cover all languages in existence, including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects
that exist, as well as the complicated ideographic-based writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related
to the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  I have found it to be an invaluable
resource for my own learning process.

I believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from
the proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang,
there are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.
The alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the
Big-8 groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in
the Chinese character set.

I believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck) because
Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include Taiwan,
Singapore, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively Chinese.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific study of the Chinese language, including all
dialects. Appropriate topics of discussion would include syntax;  language
acquisition in children and adults; the historical development of the
language, including reconstruction of earlier stages of the language;
relationships among dialects; the development of the writing system; and
related linguistic issues. Peripheral issues, such as software/hardware
information for employing the written character set on computing
platforms, would also be acceptable, but could be minimized by covering
them in the FAQ.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Discussions will probably be held primarily in the English language,
however postings in Chinese are welcome, and can be posted in characters,
using either the Big5 or GB encoding schemes (or both), or by using an
appropriate romanization scheme when discussing a single dialect (such as
Pinyin for Mandarin, or the common missionary system for Holo.
Romanization and an English translation will aid the understanding of
those whose systems will not display any Chinese at all.)  For
cross-dialect discussions, or for discussions of phonetics, an ASCII
version of the International Phonetic Alphabet (ASCII IPA)  should be
used.

In order to promote uniformity and ease of understanding, information on
ASCII IPA and tables of equivalence for various romanization systems will
be made available on a Web page as part of the sci.lang.chinese FAQ.

Posting binaries is discouraged, but they might have a place when
discussing the evolution of character forms, since there is no other way
to show the various seal characters.  When possible, such images should be
put up at an FTP or Web site with a pointer to said images posted.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where applicable
to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense are not
appropriate in this group.  The general "nettiquete" FAQs posted in
news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to sci.lang.chinese.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and
"How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to
these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have
any questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

alt.chinese.text
alt.chinese.computing
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
sci.lang
soc.culture.china
soc.culture.hongkong
soc.culture.singapore
soc.culture.taiwan

Proponent: Steve Frampton <3srf(@)qlink.queensu.ca>
Proponent: Mike Wright <darwin(@)scruznet.com>

[Remember to remove the parenthesis around the "@" when sending e-mail
to the proponents listed above.  Unfortunately SPAM makes this kind of
thing necessary.]

----------------< LINUX: The choice of a GNU generation. >----------------
Steve Frampton   <3srf(@)qlink.queensu.ca>   http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3srf
----------- Please remove .FOOBAR from address before replying. ----------

From [email protected] Tue Nov 11 12:07:14 1997
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David Bostwick <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.computing,alt.chinese.text,sci.lang,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: CFV: sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 2 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 14:45:09 GMT
Lines: 182
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:930

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                  unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese

Instructions for voting are just before the ballot itself.  Please read
them before voting.  If you have questions about the voting process,
ask the votetaker.

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker, and it is not to be placed on the World Wide Web.  Ballots
or CFVs provided by anyone except the votetaker will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 1 Dec 1997.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Proponent: Mike Wright <[email protected]>

Votetaker: David Bostwick <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions about
the scientific or historical study of human language(s).  Presumably this
would cover all languages in existence, including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects that
exist, as well as the complicated ideographic-based writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related to
the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  I have found it to be an invaluable
resource for my own learning process.

I believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from the
proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang, there
are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.  The
alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the Big-8
groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in the
Chinese character set.

I believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck)
because Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include
Taiwan, Singapore, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively
Chinese.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific study of the Chinese language, including all
dialects. Appropriate topics of discussion would include syntax; language
acquisition in children and adults; the historical development of the
language, including reconstruction of earlier stages of the language;
relationships among dialects; the development of the writing system; and
related linguistic issues. Peripheral issues, such as software/hardware
information for employing the written character set on computing
platforms, would also be acceptable, but could be minimized by covering
them in the FAQ.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Discussions will probably be held primarily in the English language,
however postings in Chinese are welcome, and can be posted in characters,
using either the Big5 or GB encoding schemes (or both), or by using an
appropriate romanization scheme when discussing a single dialect (such as
Pinyin for Mandarin, or the common missionary system for Holo.
Romanization and an English translation will aid the understanding of
those whose systems will not display any Chinese at all.)  For
cross-dialect discussions, or for discussions of phonetics, an ASCII
version of the International Phonetic Alphabet (ASCII IPA)  should be
used.

In order to promote uniformity and ease of understanding, information on
ASCII IPA and tables of equivalence for various romanization systems will
be made available on a Web page as part of the sci.lang.chinese FAQ.

Posting binaries is discouraged, but they might have a place when
discussing the evolution of character forms, since there is no other way
to show the various seal characters.  When possible, such images should be
put up at an FTP or Web site with a pointer to said images posted.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where applicable
to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense are not
appropriate in this group.  The general "nettiquete" FAQs posted in
news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to sci.lang.chinese.

END CHARTER.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

Only one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate votes
will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Addresses and
votes of all voters will be listed in the final voting results post.

Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered to be anonymous votes.

The use of spam blockers or other munged addresses will prevent you from
receiving an acknowledgement of your vote.  If the address cannot be
verified, the ballot will be disallowed.

Vote counting is automated, and failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem.  It is your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly.

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from
uninterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute
this CFV.  Instead, direct people to the official CFV as posted to
news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, ask the votetaker.

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before the
"BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and after the "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry
about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please do not send the entire CFV back to me.

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide a valid name and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: <[email protected]>.
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote (do not vote here):

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

If these instructions are unclear, please ask the votetaker.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Do not edit anything in this ballot, except to add your name and vote.
|
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: sci.lang.chinese
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <SLC-0001> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide a valid name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (i.e., do not include your e-mail address or any other
| information) after the colon on the line below.

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  sci.lang.chinese

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Aug 27 1997).
PQ datestamp: 970324

-- 
Voting address    : [email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Nov 21 06:45:04 1997
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David Bostwick <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.computing,alt.chinese.text,sci.lang,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: 2nd CFV: sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 2 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:41:39 GMT
Lines: 189
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:969

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                  unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese

Instructions for voting are just before the ballot itself.  Please read
them before voting.  If you have questions about the voting process,
ask the votetaker.

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker, and it is not to be placed on the World Wide Web.  Ballots
or CFVs provided by anyone except the votetaker will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 1 Dec 1997.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Proponent: Mike Wright <[email protected]>

Votetaker: David Bostwick <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions about
the scientific or historical study of human language(s).  Presumably this
would cover all languages in existence, including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects that
exist, as well as the complicated ideographic-based writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related to
the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  I have found it to be an invaluable
resource for my own learning process.

I believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from the
proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang, there
are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.  The
alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the Big-8
groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in the
Chinese character set.

I believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck)
because Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include
Taiwan, Singapore, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively
Chinese.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific study of the Chinese language, including all
dialects. Appropriate topics of discussion would include syntax; language
acquisition in children and adults; the historical development of the
language, including reconstruction of earlier stages of the language;
relationships among dialects; the development of the writing system; and
related linguistic issues. Peripheral issues, such as software/hardware
information for employing the written character set on computing
platforms, would also be acceptable, but could be minimized by covering
them in the FAQ.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Discussions will probably be held primarily in the English language,
however postings in Chinese are welcome, and can be posted in characters,
using either the Big5 or GB encoding schemes (or both), or by using an
appropriate romanization scheme when discussing a single dialect (such as
Pinyin for Mandarin, or the common missionary system for Holo.
Romanization and an English translation will aid the understanding of
those whose systems will not display any Chinese at all.)  For
cross-dialect discussions, or for discussions of phonetics, an ASCII
version of the International Phonetic Alphabet (ASCII IPA)  should be
used.

In order to promote uniformity and ease of understanding, information on
ASCII IPA and tables of equivalence for various romanization systems will
be made available on a Web page as part of the sci.lang.chinese FAQ.

Posting binaries is discouraged, but they might have a place when
discussing the evolution of character forms, since there is no other way
to show the various seal characters.  When possible, such images should be
put up at an FTP or Web site with a pointer to said images posted.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where applicable
to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense are not
appropriate in this group.  The general "nettiquete" FAQs posted in
news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to sci.lang.chinese.

END CHARTER.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

Only one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate votes
will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Addresses and
votes of all voters will be listed in the final voting results post.

Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered to be anonymous votes.

The use of spam blockers or other munged addresses will prevent you from
receiving an acknowledgement of your vote.  If the address cannot be
verified, the ballot will be disallowed.

Vote counting is automated, and failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem.  It is your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly.

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from
uninterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute
this CFV.  Instead, direct people to the official CFV as posted to
news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, ask the votetaker.

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before the
"BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and after the "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry
about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please do not send the entire CFV back to me.

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide a valid name and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: <[email protected]>.
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote (do not vote here):

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

If these instructions are unclear, please ask the votetaker.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Do not edit anything in this ballot, except to add your name and vote.
|
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: sci.lang.chinese
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <SLC-0002> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide a valid name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (i.e., do not include your e-mail address or any other
| information) after the colon on the line below.

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  sci.lang.chinese

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Aug 27 1997).
PQ datestamp: 970324

-- 
Voting address    : [email protected]

sci.lang.chinese Bounce List - These votes have been recorded
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]_AM_NOT_INTERESTED_IN_SPAM.xs4all.nl                     Boudewijn Rempt
[email protected]                                                    Dong Liu
[email protected]                                              Irina Rempt
[email protected]                                        Michael Wang

From [email protected] Tue Dec  2 08:45:04 1997
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: David Bostwick <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.computing,alt.chinese.text,sci.lang,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: RESULT: sci.lang.chinese fails 87:20
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 16:33:18 GMT
Lines: 226
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:987

                                RESULT
            unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese fails 87:20

There were 87 YES votes and 20 NO votes, for a total of 107 valid votes.
There was 1 abstain and 1 invalid vote.

For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO)
votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.
Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the group may
not be voted on again for six months.

Newsgroups line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

The voting period ended at 23:59:59 UTC, 1 Dec 1997.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Proponent: Mike Wright <[email protected]>

Votetaker: David Bostwick <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions about
the scientific or historical study of human language(s).  Presumably this
would cover all languages in existence, including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects that
exist, as well as the complicated ideographic-based writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related to
the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  I have found it to be an invaluable
resource for my own learning process.

I believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from the
proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang, there
are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.  The
alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the Big-8
groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in the
Chinese character set.

I believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck)
because Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include
Taiwan, Singapore, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively
Chinese.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific study of the Chinese language, including all
dialects. Appropriate topics of discussion would include syntax; language
acquisition in children and adults; the historical development of the
language, including reconstruction of earlier stages of the language;
relationships among dialects; the development of the writing system; and
related linguistic issues. Peripheral issues, such as software/hardware
information for employing the written character set on computing
platforms, would also be acceptable, but could be minimized by covering
them in the FAQ.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Discussions will probably be held primarily in the English language,
however postings in Chinese are welcome, and can be posted in characters,
using either the Big5 or GB encoding schemes (or both), or by using an
appropriate romanization scheme when discussing a single dialect (such as
Pinyin for Mandarin, or the common missionary system for Holo.
Romanization and an English translation will aid the understanding of
those whose systems will not display any Chinese at all.)  For
cross-dialect discussions, or for discussions of phonetics, an ASCII
version of the International Phonetic Alphabet (ASCII IPA)  should be
used.

In order to promote uniformity and ease of understanding, information on
ASCII IPA and tables of equivalence for various romanization systems will
be made available on a Web page as part of the sci.lang.chinese FAQ.

Posting binaries is discouraged, but they might have a place when
discussing the evolution of character forms, since there is no other way
to show the various seal characters.  When possible, such images should be
put up at an FTP or Web site with a pointer to said images posted.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where applicable
to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense are not
appropriate in this group.  The general "nettiquete" FAQs posted in
news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to sci.lang.chinese.

END CHARTER.

sci.lang.chinese Final Vote Ack

Voted Yes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                           Steve Frampton
[email protected]                                            Naoko Tomioka
[email protected]                                               Sunny Lam
[email protected]                                            Alastair Burt
[email protected]                                     Aaron Morrison
[email protected]                                         Stephanie da Silva
[email protected]                                  Alan Shaw <[email protected]>
[email protected]                                             Aaron Lav
[email protected]                                               Berthil S. Moraal
[email protected]_AM_NOT_INTERESTED_IN_SPAM.xs4all.nl                     Boudewijn Rempt
[email protected]                                          Niels Olof Bouvin
[email protected]                                   Christopher Robin Zimmerman
[email protected]                                                Mike Wright
[email protected]                                                Desmond Sin
[email protected]                                               David E. Siegel
[email protected]                                                   David Turrell
[email protected]                                                      Dan
[email protected]                                                    Dong Liu
[email protected]                                                     Don Kirkman
[email protected]                                                    Vincent Dugat
[email protected]                                             Erik E. Peterson
[email protected]                                           Ekkehard Uthke
[email protected]                                                   Ewen Denney
[email protected]                                                      Shi-min Fang
[email protected]                                         Lars Sprute
[email protected]                                               F.Baube
[email protected]                                               Xiaojiang ma
[email protected]                                            Greg Franklin
[email protected]                                                  James Hammons
[email protected]                                           Haifang Li
[email protected]                                      Henry "Hank" Fung
[email protected]                                       Heikki Kantola
[email protected]                                                Henry Mak
[email protected]                                                           Hao Ni
[email protected]                                      Michael Welch
[email protected]                                              Irina Rempt
[email protected]                                                  Jimmy Hsu
[email protected]                                                  Mid Ouyang
[email protected]                                       Jim Honeychuck
[email protected]                                               John Wilcock
[email protected]                                         Johnson Kuo
[email protected]                                                Jani Patokallio
[email protected]                                                      angelo diaz
[email protected]                                            Kevin R. Gowen, II
[email protected]                                                    Kim DeVaughn
[email protected]                                                 Kane Koo
[email protected]                                                      lancelot
[email protected]                                         Larry Treanor
[email protected]                                              Steven Fox
[email protected]                                                      Ken Lunde
[email protected]                                          Dylan W.H. Sung
[email protected]                                           Gerald B. Mathias
[email protected]                                                Matt Miller
[email protected]                                           Matt Gredley
[email protected]                                                      Michael Grubb
[email protected]                                              maohai huang
[email protected]                                        Michael Wang
[email protected]                                                    Min Eu
[email protected]                                                         Albert Cla
[email protected]                                                Ocrat Webmaster
[email protected]                                             Olav Nieuwejaar
[email protected]                                      Patrick Chew
[email protected]                                              Trevor Tymchuk
[email protected]                                                Patrick Hublou
[email protected]                                              Paul Adams
[email protected]              qc tang<br><br>| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, =
[email protected]                                                     R.M.C.Ahn
[email protected]                                           Rick Harbaugh
[email protected]                                             Bert Rozowski
[email protected]                                  Renaud Thierry Lefebvre
[email protected]                                         J Rufinus
[email protected]                                               Scott Smith
[email protected]                                       Steve MacGregor
[email protected]                                                    Jack Durst
[email protected]                                                  Sven Spanne
[email protected]                                                    Tak To
[email protected]                                          Micah Sittig
[email protected]                                                   Thomas Chan
[email protected]                                                Bruce Tindall
[email protected]                                                      Timothy Murphy
[email protected]                                         Shu Chih-hsiang
[email protected]                                               Geoff Waters
[email protected]                                          Wei-Hwa Huang
[email protected]                                                       Wing C. Ng
[email protected]                                            Xia Yiyuan
[email protected]                                                Xiangwei Liu
[email protected]                                                Xiaoxian Zeng

Voted No
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                             Bob Blanchard
[email protected]                                             Martin H. Booda
[email protected]                                               Chris Ebenezer
[email protected]                                    Chuck Hoffmann
[email protected]                                      David Robinson
[email protected]                                              Doug O'Brien
[email protected]                                                   Greg Bacon
[email protected]                                               Jasmine Taylor
[email protected]                Jeffery D. Hunt, Crew Trainer, McDonald's
[email protected]                                          Joshua Kramer
[email protected]                                               Kevin Wayne Williams
[email protected]                                              Aaron Marquez
[email protected]                                Christian Weisgerber
[email protected]                                        Neil Irving
[email protected]                                       Patrick J. LoPresti
[email protected]                                 Sam Johnson
[email protected]                                       Chris Hayes
[email protected]                                                  Dwight Brown
[email protected]                                            Jason Steiner
[email protected]                                                Todd C. Lawson

Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                                Richard Miller

Votes in Error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                                            yky
  !Unverifiable ballot

From [email protected] Sat Oct 10 05:55:54 1998
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.text,alt.chinese.computing,sci.lang,sci.lang.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: RFD: sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 07:28:36 GMT
Lines: 123
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10615 news.groups:297965 sci.lang:92428 sci.lang.japan:49392 soc.culture.china:378586 soc.culture.hongkong:230790 soc.culture.singapore:379457 soc.culture.taiwan:221023

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
                  unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup sci.lang.chinese.  This is
not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural
details are below.

Newsgroup line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions about
the scientific or historical study of human language(s).  Presumably this
would cover all languages in existence, including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects
that exist, as well as the complicated ideographic-based writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related
to the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  For many USENET readers, this group
has proven to be an invaluable resource.

We believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from
the proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang,
there are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.
The alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the
Big-8 groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in
the Chinese character set.

We believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck) because
Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include Taiwan,
Singapore, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively Chinese.
Furthermore, there are many minority non-Chinese (non-Han) languages
spoken in China that would dilute the thrust of the newsgroup if included.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific study of the Chinese language, including all
dialects.  Appropriate topics of discussion would include syntax; language
acquisition in children and adults; the historical development of the
language, including reconstruction of earlier stages of the language;
relationships among dialects; the development of the writing system; and
related linguistic issues such as the borrowing and preservation of Chinese
vocabulary in non-Chinese languages.  Peripheral issues, such as software/
hardware information for employing the written character set on computing
platforms, would also be acceptable, but could be minimized by covering them
in the FAQ.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Discussions will probably be held primarily in the English language,
however postings in Chinese are welcome, and can be posted in characters,
using either the Big5 or GB encoding schemes (or both), or by using an
appropriate romanization scheme when discussing a single dialect (such as
Pinyin for Mandarin, or the common missionary system for Holo).
Romanization and an English translation will aid the understanding of
those whose systems will not display any Chinese at all.)  For
cross-dialect discussions, or for discussions of phonetics, an ASCII
version of the International Phonetic Alphabet (ASCII IPA)  should be
used.

In order to promote uniformity and ease of understanding, information on
ASCII IPA and tables of equivalence for various romanization systems will
be made available on a Web page as part of the sci.lang.chinese FAQ.

Posting of binaries is discouraged, but they might have a place when
discussing the evolution of character forms, since there is no other way
to show the various seal characters.  However, when possible, such images
should be put up at an FTP or Web site with a pointer to said images posted.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where applicable
to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense are not
appropriate in this group.  The general "netiquette" FAQs posted in
news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to sci.lang.chinese.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and
"How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to
these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have
any questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

alt.chinese.text
alt.chinese.computing
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
sci.lang
sci.lang.japan
soc.culture.china
soc.culture.hongkong
soc.culture.singapore
soc.culture.taiwan

Proponent: Mike Wright <[email protected]>
Proponent: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Tue Oct 27 06:15:53 1998
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.text,alt.chinese.computing,sci.lang,sci.lang.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: 2nd RFD: sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:02:13 GMT
Lines: 126
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10647 news.groups:300289 sci.lang:93815 sci.lang.japan:50267 soc.culture.china:380256 soc.culture.hongkong:231603 soc.culture.singapore:385602 soc.culture.taiwan:222069

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
                  unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup sci.lang.chinese.  This is
not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural
details are below.

CHANGES from previous RFD:

Added prohibition of binaries.

Newsgroup line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions about
the scientific or historical study of human language(s).  Presumably this
would cover all languages in existence, including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects
that exist, as well as the complicated morphosyllabic writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related
to the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  For many USENET readers, this group
has proven to be an invaluable resource.

We believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from
the proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang,
there are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.
The alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the
Big-8 groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in
the Chinese character set.

We believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck) because
Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include Taiwanese,
Singaporeans, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively Chinese.
Furthermore, there are many minority non-Chinese (non-Han) languages
spoken in China that would dilute the thrust of the newsgroup if included.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific study of the Chinese language, including all
dialects.  Appropriate topics of discussion would include syntax; language
acquisition in children and adults; the historical development of the
language, including reconstruction of earlier stages of the language;
relationships among dialects; the development of the writing system; and
related linguistic issues such as the borrowing and preservation of Chinese
vocabulary in non-Chinese languages.  Peripheral issues, such as discussions
of how to learn the language, or of how to use it on various computer
platforms, are also welcome, but posters on these topics should be especially
careful to check the FAQs and read the group for awhile first, to avoid
asking repetitious questions.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Discussions will probably be held primarily in the English language,
however postings in Chinese are welcome, and can be posted in characters,
using either the Big5 or GB encoding schemes (or both), or by using an
appropriate romanization scheme when discussing a single dialect (such as
Pinyin for Mandarin, or the common missionary system for Holo).
Romanization and an English translation will aid the understanding of
those whose systems will not display any Chinese at all.  For cross-
dialect discussions, or for discussions of phonetics, an ASCII version
of the International Phonetic Alphabet (ASCII IPA) should be used.

In order to promote uniformity and ease of understanding, information on
ASCII IPA and tables of equivalence for various romanization systems will
be made available on a Web page as part of the sci.lang.chinese FAQ.

Posting of binaries is prohibited.  If images of characters are required
as part of a discussion, they should be put up at an FTP or Web site with
a pointer (URL) to said images posted.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where applicable
to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense are not
appropriate in this group.  The general "netiquette" FAQs posted in
news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to sci.lang.chinese.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and
"How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to
these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have
any questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

alt.chinese.text
alt.chinese.computing
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
sci.lang
sci.lang.japan
soc.culture.china
soc.culture.hongkong
soc.culture.singapore
soc.culture.taiwan

Proponent: Mike Wright <[email protected]>
Proponent: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Tue Nov 24 18:30:09 1998
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.computing,alt.chinese.text,sci.lang,sci.lang.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: CFV: sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 17 Dec 1998 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:22:55 GMT
Lines: 185
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10707 news.groups:301597 sci.lang:94681 sci.lang.japan:52291 soc.culture.china:383253 soc.culture.hongkong:232844 soc.culture.singapore:394527 soc.culture.taiwan:223938

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                  unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Dec 1998.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Mike Wright <[email protected]>
Proponent: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions about
the scientific or historical study of human language(s).  Presumably this
would cover all languages in existence, including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects
that exist, as well as the complicated morphosyllabic writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related
to the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  For many USENET readers, this group
has proven to be an invaluable resource.

We believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from
the proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang,
there are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.
The alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the
Big-8 groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in
the Chinese character set.

We believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck) because
Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include Taiwanese,
Singaporeans, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively Chinese.
Furthermore, there are many minority non-Chinese (non-Han) languages
spoken in China that would dilute the thrust of the newsgroup if included.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific study of the Chinese language, including all
dialects.  Appropriate topics of discussion would include syntax; language
acquisition in children and adults; the historical development of the
language, including reconstruction of earlier stages of the language;
relationships among dialects; the development of the writing system; and
related linguistic issues such as the borrowing and preservation of Chinese
vocabulary in non-Chinese languages.  Peripheral issues, such as discussions
of how to learn the language, or of how to use it on various computer
platforms, are also welcome, but posters on these topics should be especially
careful to check the FAQs and read the group for awhile first, to avoid
asking repetitious questions.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Discussions will probably be held primarily in the English language,
however postings in Chinese are welcome, and can be posted in characters,
using either the Big5 or GB encoding schemes (or both), or by using an
appropriate romanization scheme when discussing a single dialect (such as
Pinyin for Mandarin, or the common missionary system for Holo).
Romanization and an English translation will aid the understanding of
those whose systems will not display any Chinese at all.  For cross-
dialect discussions, or for discussions of phonetics, an ASCII version
of the International Phonetic Alphabet (ASCII IPA) should be used.

In order to promote uniformity and ease of understanding, information on
ASCII IPA and tables of equivalence for various romanization systems will
be made available on a Web page as part of the sci.lang.chinese FAQ.

Posting of binaries is prohibited.  If images of characters are required
as part of a discussion, they should be put up at an FTP or Web site with
a pointer (URL) to said images posted.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where applicable
to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense are not
appropriate in this group.  The general "netiquette" FAQs posted in
news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to sci.lang.chinese.

END CHARTER.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent
accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged"
address he cannot decipher immediately.

Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>.

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.

If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: sci.lang.chinese
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <SLC-0001> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  sci.lang.chinese

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

DISTRIBUTION:

In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:

Mailing list name: Chinese
Submission address: [email protected]
Request address (optional): [email protected]

This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Aug 14 1997).
PQ datestamp: 980322

-- 
Voting address: [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Dec  7 22:00:30 1998
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.computing,alt.chinese.text,sci.lang,sci.lang.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: 2nd CFV: sci.lang.chinese
Followup-To: poster
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 17 Dec 1998 00:00:00 GMT
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 05:52:36 GMT
Lines: 189
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10736 news.groups:302177 sci.lang:95125 sci.lang.japan:53039 soc.culture.china:383935 soc.culture.hongkong:233200 soc.culture.singapore:396352 soc.culture.taiwan:224355

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                  unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese

This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.

Newsgroups line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Dec 1998.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Mike Wright <[email protected]>
Proponent: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions about
the scientific or historical study of human language(s).  Presumably this
would cover all languages in existence, including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects
that exist, as well as the complicated morphosyllabic writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related
to the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  For many USENET readers, this group
has proven to be an invaluable resource.

We believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from
the proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang,
there are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.
The alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the
Big-8 groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in
the Chinese character set.

We believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck) because
Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include Taiwanese,
Singaporeans, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively Chinese.
Furthermore, there are many minority non-Chinese (non-Han) languages
spoken in China that would dilute the thrust of the newsgroup if included.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific study of the Chinese language, including all
dialects.  Appropriate topics of discussion would include syntax; language
acquisition in children and adults; the historical development of the
language, including reconstruction of earlier stages of the language;
relationships among dialects; the development of the writing system; and
related linguistic issues such as the borrowing and preservation of Chinese
vocabulary in non-Chinese languages.  Peripheral issues, such as discussions
of how to learn the language, or of how to use it on various computer
platforms, are also welcome, but posters on these topics should be especially
careful to check the FAQs and read the group for awhile first, to avoid
asking repetitious questions.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Discussions will probably be held primarily in the English language,
however postings in Chinese are welcome, and can be posted in characters,
using either the Big5 or GB encoding schemes (or both), or by using an
appropriate romanization scheme when discussing a single dialect (such as
Pinyin for Mandarin, or the common missionary system for Holo).
Romanization and an English translation will aid the understanding of
those whose systems will not display any Chinese at all.  For cross-
dialect discussions, or for discussions of phonetics, an ASCII version
of the International Phonetic Alphabet (ASCII IPA) should be used.

In order to promote uniformity and ease of understanding, information on
ASCII IPA and tables of equivalence for various romanization systems will
be made available on a Web page as part of the sci.lang.chinese FAQ.

Posting of binaries is prohibited.  If images of characters are required
as part of a discussion, they should be put up at an FTP or Web site with
a pointer (URL) to said images posted.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where applicable
to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense are not
appropriate in this group.  The general "netiquette" FAQs posted in
news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to sci.lang.chinese.

END CHARTER.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent
accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged"
address he cannot decipher immediately.

Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>.

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
  [ NO      ]  example.no.vote
  [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention
  [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation

DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible
for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.

If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to
Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.

======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: sci.lang.chinese
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <SLC-0002> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:

Voter name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  sci.lang.chinese

======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============

DISTRIBUTION:

In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:

Mailing list name: Chinese
Submission address: [email protected]
Request address (optional): [email protected]

sci.lang.chinese Bounce List - Please contact me about your vote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                                          Mark

This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Aug 14 1997).
PQ datestamp: 980322

-- 
Voting address: [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Dec 17 23:45:36 1998
Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back
From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.chinese.computing,alt.chinese.text,sci.lang,sci.lang.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: RESULT: sci.lang.chinese fails 103:11
Followup-To: news.groups
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <913[email protected]>
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Approved: [email protected]
Archive-Name: sci.lang.chinese
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:34:48 GMT
Lines: 246
Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10755 news.groups:302346 sci.lang:95680 sci.lang.japan:53767 soc.culture.china:384226 soc.culture.hongkong:233309 soc.culture.singapore:397202 soc.culture.taiwan:224568

                                RESULT
           unmoderated group sci.lang.chinese fails 103:11

There were 103 YES votes and 11 NO votes, for a total of 114 valid
votes.  There were 3 abstentions and 3 invalid ballots.

For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
(YES and NO) votes.  There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes.

A five day discussion period follows this announcement.  Unless
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the group
may not be voted on again for six months.

Newsgroups line:
sci.lang.chinese	The Chinese language, both spoken and written.

The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Dec 1998.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Mike Wright <[email protected]>
Proponent: Steve Frampton <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: sci.lang.chinese

There exists the sci.lang group, which was chartered for discussions about
the scientific or historical study of human language(s).  Presumably this
would cover all languages in existence, including Chinese.

However, there are issues with the Chinese language that are less
prevalent with other languages.  These include the diverse dialects
that exist, as well as the complicated morphosyllabic writing system.

The sci.lang.japan group exists for the discussion of issues related
to the Japanese language.  A variety of topics have been discussed which
include the origins and history of the language, grammar, and writing
system, language learning tips, software and hardware solutions for using
the writing system on computers, etc.  For many USENET readers, this group
has proven to be an invaluable resource.

We believe people interested in the Chinese language would benefit from
the proposed group, sci.lang.chinese.  Currently, aside from sci.lang,
there are no proper or popular forums in which to hold such discussions.
The alt.chinese.language.* heirarchy is not as widely propogated as the
Big-8 groups, and more importantly, are intended for actual postings in
the Chinese character set.

We believe sci.lang.chinese would be more appropriate than sci.lang.china
(in keeping with the naming convention that sci.lang.japan struck) because
Chinese is spoken by not just people in China.  These include Taiwanese,
Singaporeans, and of course Chinese speakers who are not natively Chinese.
Furthermore, there are many minority non-Chinese (non-Han) languages
spoken in China that would dilute the thrust of the newsgroup if included.

CHARTER: sci.lang.chinese

Discussion of the scientific study of the Chinese language, including all
dialects.  Appropriate topics of discussion would include syntax; language
acquisition in children and adults; the historical development of the
language, including reconstruction of earlier stages of the language;
relationships among dialects; the development of the writing system; and
related linguistic issues such as the borrowing and preservation of Chinese
vocabulary in non-Chinese languages.  Peripheral issues, such as discussions
of how to learn the language, or of how to use it on various computer
platforms, are also welcome, but posters on these topics should be especially
careful to check the FAQs and read the group for awhile first, to avoid
asking repetitious questions.

Note the "sci." prefix.  The main concern here is with _facts_ and
theories accounting for them.

Like all "sci." newsgroups, sci.lang.chinese is not meant to substitute
for a dictionary or even a college library.  If the answer to your
question can be looked up easily, then do so rather than using the net.
If you don't have a library, then ask away, but explain your situation.

Discussions will probably be held primarily in the English language,
however postings in Chinese are welcome, and can be posted in characters,
using either the Big5 or GB encoding schemes (or both), or by using an
appropriate romanization scheme when discussing a single dialect (such as
Pinyin for Mandarin, or the common missionary system for Holo).
Romanization and an English translation will aid the understanding of
those whose systems will not display any Chinese at all.  For cross-
dialect discussions, or for discussions of phonetics, an ASCII version
of the International Phonetic Alphabet (ASCII IPA) should be used.

In order to promote uniformity and ease of understanding, information on
ASCII IPA and tables of equivalence for various romanization systems will
be made available on a Web page as part of the sci.lang.chinese FAQ.

Posting of binaries is prohibited.  If images of characters are required
as part of a discussion, they should be put up at an FTP or Web site with
a pointer (URL) to said images posted.

Commercial advertisements, political discussions (except where applicable
to the politics of language), flames, and such nonsense are not
appropriate in this group.  The general "netiquette" FAQs posted in
news.announce.newusers and news.answers all apply to sci.lang.chinese.

END CHARTER.



sci.lang.chinese Final Voter list

Voted YES
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
schwaigl [at] eunet.at                                    Clemens Schwaighofer
e900433 [at] anu.edu.au                                               sean zhu
cfrancis [at] mars.eu.rmit.edu.au                                Chris Francis
detienne [at] bgsh.ucl.ac.be                                   Claude Detienne
dany.steyaert [at] ping.be                                       Dany Steyaert
3srf [at] qlink.queensu.ca                                      Steve Frampton
srtxg [at] chanae.alphanet.ch                         Pablo "Yanagi" Saratxaga
Christopher.Plummer [at] lp.dmx.epfl.ch                    Christopher Plummer
frankw [at] sme.ch                                               Frank Wittwer
james.dew [at] bj.col.com.cn                                      James E. Dew
alanshaw [at] alanshaw.com                                           Alan Shaw
collins [at] alphabet.com                                        Price Collins
Caedmontwo [at] aol.com                                        Caedmon Parsons
Dscnectd [at] aol.com                                              Matt Rigdon
Julizhang [at] aol.com                                              Juli Zhang
mdecerbo [at] bbn.com                                             Mike Decerbo
kimdv [at] best.com                                               Kim DeVaughn
ngreen [at] btinternet.com                                     Nigel Greenwood
FPerezBarreiro [at] compuserve.com                            F.Perez-Barreiro
hammons [at] crl.com                                             James Hammons
booda [at] datasync.com                                        Martin H. Booda
dbeecher [at] erols.com                                        Dominic Beecher
julesd [at] erols.com                                             Jules Dubois
bjv [at] herbison.com                                            B.J. Herbison
robertperrett [at] hotmail.com                                  Robert Perrett
cmr [at] iisc.com                                             Charles Richmond
gregfra [at] iname.com                                           Greg Franklin
cwrea [at] shell1.interlog.com                                    Chris W. Rea
noel [at] jpmorgan.com                                               Noel Hunt
yumitori [at] montana.com                                          Ron Martino
fred [at] moremagic.com                                         Fred Baube(tm)
olav [at] viking.mv.com                                        Olav Nieuwejaar
gatsby2 [at] ix.netcom.com                                   Adam Paul Bronson
ptholfsen [at] netos.com                                         Paul Tholfsen
ocrat [at] ocrat.com                                           Ocrat Webmaster
at [at] dial.oleane.com                                        Alain Thivillon
Emilie.Danna [at] dial.oleane.com                                 Emilie Danna
dc [at] panix.com                                            David W. Crawford
tindall [at] panix.com                                           Bruce Tindall
mabr12 [at] dial.pipex.com                                     Dylan W.H. Sung
Dan.Crevier [at] pobox.com                                         Dan Crevier
sllee [at] columbus.rr.com                                       Siu-Leung Lee
goertzen [at] rrnet.com                                    Stanley G. Goertzen
arielle [at] Taronga.COM                                    Stephanie da Silva
darryls [at] westest.com                                        Darryl Simmons
brigitte [at] xnet.com                                           Brigitte Yves
albe [at] lvs.informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE                         Alexander Bell
patchew [at] uclink4.berkeley.edu                                 Patrick Chew
takoyaki [at] cco.caltech.edu                                     Micah Sittig
whuang [at] ugcs.caltech.edu                                     Wei-Hwa Huang
tc31 [at] cornell.edu                                              Thomas Chan
hfung [at] CSUPomona.Edu                                             Hank Fung
lrb5 [at] duke.edu                                               Luke Bergmann
gte500i [at] prism.gatech.edu                              Patrick Leo Cotrona
mathias [at] hawaii.edu                                      Gerald B. Mathias
mithomps [at] indiana.edu                                      Mikael Thompson
af5 [at] quest.cc.purdue.edu                                         Wendy Lin
dadi [at] troi.cc.rochester.edu                                       Dan Ding
zsh [at] cs.rochester.edu                                         Shenghuo Zhu
rsimmon [at] rci.rutgers.edu                                R. VanNess Simmons
j-wicentowski [at] uchicago.edu                                Joe Wicentowski
bingfu [at] usc.edu                                                     bingfu
johnwcha [at] scf-fs.usc.edu                                    Wenkuang Chang
SLQTN [at] cc.usu.edu                                          David Mortensen
marsmc [at] mail.utexas.edu                          charles marshall mcarthur
rufinus [at] mbe.ece.wisc.edu                                        J Rufinus
hyde [at] ctv.es                                                    Albert Cla
jpatokal [at] iki.fi                                           Jani Patokallio
delarobertie [at] univ-artois.fr                         Pierre de La Robertie
neyret [at] wanadoo.fr                                          Laurent Neyret
argentum [at] tin.it                                           Talnikov Alexei
ganzo [at] tin.it                                             Mikhail Talnikov
svtalnik [at] tin.it                                        Svetlana Talnikova
51920536 [at] 3web.net                                     Achim Nolcken Lohse
jim [at] blckhrse.clark.net                                     James D. Beard
mottw [at] gte.net                                                 Elwood Mott
crobato [at] kuentos.guam.net                           Christopher Robato Yao
thicks [at] mailbag.net                                            Tracy Hicks
darwin [at] mbay.net                                               Mike Wright
jonboy [at] onlink.net                                          Trevor Tymchuk
spynx [at] diamond.sierra.net                                       Jack Durst
chriswong [at] softhome.net                                         Chris Wong
dcmsin [at] HK.Super.NET                                           Desmond Sin
waters [at] HK.Super.NET                                          Geoff Waters
Berthil [at] dlw.nl                                          Berthil S. Moraal
mastik [at] tch.fgg.eur.nl                                        Frits Mastik
Yzuo [at] kub.nl                                                       Yan Zuo
boud [at] rempt.xs4all.nl                                      Boudewijn Rempt
irina [at] rempt.xs4all.nl                                         Irina Rempt
pei [at] chinapage.org                                             Ming L. Pei
ijon [at] forum2.org                                                Ijon Tichy
fang [at] xys.org                                                 Shi-min Fang
helen_b_sg [at] mtu-net.ru                                     Elena Boldyreva
sommar [at] algonet.se                                       Erland Sommarskog
yeogk [at] comp.nus.edu.sg                                         YEO Gee Kin
mayawen [at] mail.mrbo.com.tw             Maya Wen<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; | Insert =
alexchang [at] ms1.url.com.tw                                       Alex Chang
jakob [at] saturn.yzu.edu.tw                                     Jakob Dempsey
bmark [at] gcn.net.tw                                               Bryan Mark
merlin [at] cvnet.co.uk                                        Darren Wyn Rees
ben [at] hayamasa.demon.co.uk                               Ben Kasmin Bullock
philh [at] vision25.demon.co.uk                                    Philip Hunt
bduncan [at] salem.k12.mo.us                                 William E. Duncan

Voted NO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
stainles [at] bga.com                                             Dwight Brown
david [at] farrar.com                                             David Farrar
celticwiccan [at] hotmail.com                                      Peter Byron
alderson [at] netcom.com                               Richard M. Alderson III
chriseb [at] nortelnetworks.com                                 Chris Ebenezer
daver [at] teleport.com                                             D Reynolds
naddy [at] mips.rhein-neckar.de                           Christian Weisgerber
jlowther [at] students.acusd.edu                                  John Lowther
meg [at] Steam.Stanford.EDU                                         Meg Worley
rick [at] bcm.tmc.edu                                           Richard Miller
trapat [at] infonie.fr                                            Patrice Tran

Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DESiegel [at] aol.com                                             D. E. Siegel
guymacon [at] deltanet.com                   [email protected] (Guy Macon)
chris [at] kzim.com                                Christopher Robin Zimmerman

Invalid votes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sp2XXsp [at] yahoo.com                                                    Mark
    ! Undeliverable address - This user does not have a yahoo.com account
john [at] tradoc.fr                                               John Wilcock
    ! Disqualified - distributed copy of CFV
mzelez [at] sgh.waw.pl                                        Mateusz Zeleznik
    ! No vote statement in message


-- 
Neil Crellin, UVV <[email protected]>
 
USENET FACT: Flaming
Flaming is the hostile interaction between multiple Usenet users.