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From [email protected] Fri Nov 25 17:46:36 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Brian Ross) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war.vietnam,soc.veterans,soc.culture.vietnamese,soc.culture.cambodia,soc.culture.laos,soc.history,soc.history.war.misc,soc.culture.australian Subject: RFD: soc.history.war.vietnam Followup-To: news.groups Date: 25 Nov 1994 15:15:34 -0500 Organization: Australian National University Lines: 71 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5994 news.groups:124615 alt.war.vietnam:6801 soc.veterans:6552 soc.culture.vietnamese:92567 soc.culture.cambodia:1825 soc.culture.laos:2485 soc.history:43164 soc.history.war.misc:2943 soc.culture.australian:27283  Request for Discussion: soc.history.war.vietnam Proposal for a new newsgroup  By: Brian Ross ([email protected]) -----------------------------------  Group name:     	soc.history.war.vietnam Status:         	moderated Suggested Moderator:	"John R. Tegtmeier" <[email protected]> Distribution:   	world-wide Summary:        	a newsgroup for the discussion of the Vietnam war(s), 			their aftermath, and their effects.  Justification:  	Vietnam was a war that traumatised and changed a generation  around the world.  In those countries that fought there and those  which looked on as the nations of Indochina were consumed both  during the war and after, the effects have been long lasting and extensive.  	Such a war needs objective discussion to understand the  effects that it has had on its participants and the societies from  which they came, as well as how it affected world-wide events,  politics and people. 	 	Currently, the only newsgroup specifically devoted to discussion of the Vietnam War(s), their aftermath and their effects, alt.war.vietnam has become dominated by a few people who have become only too willing  to allow the discussion to devolve into useless flame and insult.   This has prevented any objective discussion of the subject and  forced many otherwise willing contributors to abandon the newsgroup  entirely.  It is hoped that the new newsgroup will overcome this  problem by the use of a moderator whom will screen all posts for  flames and gratitious insults.  	In addition, by lifting the newsgroup out of the alt. heirachy into the more widely distributed soc. one, a wider readership will be reached and more contributions will be made by interested parties with more varied opinions.  Charter:          The proposed group will provide a forum for the objective discussion of the Vietnam and Indochinese war, their aftermath and  their effect on the people and societies which took part in them.  The moderator will solely ensure that useless flamage and insults are  avoided by contributors.    NOTE  This RFD is being issued in concordance with the guidelines set in the "How to create a new usenet newsgroup" FAQ regularly posted to news.announce.newgroups. Please refer to this article if you have any questions about the newsgroup creation.  Unless the discussion indicates a need to resubmit a new RFD, the CFV will be posted approximately three to four weeks after the posting of this RFD.  This RFD was (cross)-posted to the following groups:  news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war.vietnam,soc.veterans, soc.culture.vietnam,soc.culture.cambodia,soc.culture.laos, soc.history,soc.history.war.misc,soc.culture.australian  --  Brian [email protected]________________________________________ 	"If you've lain in a lonely hotel in America with a remote control in your hand and picked your way with the zapper through the swamp [of pay TV], you've found out what a cultural desert is." - Clive James____________________  From [email protected] Fri Dec 16 12:51:50 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Brian Ross) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war.vietnam,soc.veterans,soc.culture.vietnamese,soc.culture.cambodia,soc.culture.laos,soc.history,soc.history.war.misc,alt.war Subject: RFD: soc.history.war.vietnam moderated Followup-To: news.groups Date: 15 Dec 1994 16:52:11 -0500 Organization: Australian National University Lines: 219 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:6101 news.groups:127122 alt.war.vietnam:7531 soc.veterans:6883 soc.culture.vietnamese:95444 soc.culture.cambodia:2298 soc.culture.laos:2681 soc.history:43560 soc.history.war.misc:3208 alt.war:9498   	This is a revised charter which lays out the resposibilities and  rules regarding rejection of unacceptable posts for the moderator(s) much  more fully than previous versions have.  The older version of the Charter  has been appended at the end of this RFD for comparison purposes.  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------  Request for Discussion: soc.history.war.vietnam Proposal for a new newsgroup   By: Brian Ross ([email protected]) &     John R. Tegtmeier <[email protected]>  Group name:           soc.history.war.vietnam Status:               moderated Suggested Moderators: "John R. Tegtmeier" <[email protected]>        Co-moderators: "Richard Rohde"<[email protected]>                          "Brian Ross" <[email protected]> Distribution:         world-wide Summary:              a newsgroup for the discussion of the Vietnam                war(s), their causes, effects, and aftermath.  Justification:       The wars in Vietnam traumatised and changed a generation around the world.  In those countries that fought there and those which looked on as the nations of Indochina were consumed both during the war and after, the effects have been long lasting and extensive.       Such a war needs objective discussion to understand the effects that it has had on its participants and the societies from which they came, as well as how it affected world-wide events, politics and people.       It is believed that a moderated format, that is, one where personal insults and attacks are elimanated, will serve to create an environment in which all may post without intimidation and reluctance.  The goal of the moderating process is to create a newsgroup that will promote discourse and perhaps some understanding. To this end, the moderation process, as stated below, has been limited to the removal of these personal insults and unrelated material.  Potenial posts will not be screened for either merit or ideological content, in order to ensure the widest possible access to the newsgroup.       In addition, by placing the newsgroup in the widely distributed soc. heirachy , a wider readership may be reached and more contributions will be made by interested parties with more varied opinions.       Currently, the only newsgroup specifically devoted to discussion of the Vietnam War, alt.war.vietnam, is not moderated, and it is subject to the some of the negative conditions outlined above.   Charter:  1. Aim & Purpose of Soc.History.War.Vietnam      This newsgroup will provide an open forum for the objective discussion of the Vietnam and Indochinese wars, their causes, aftermath, and effect on the people and societies which took part in them.  The use of a moderator is intended to provide an environment that is conducive to this discussion, and open to all categories of potential readers/ contributors - academics, veterans, members of the anti-war movement, students, and anyone else with an interest - without regard to ideological or political positions.       The wars in Vietnam and Indochina in the middle of the twentieth century not only bred armed conflict between combatants, but also divisiveness and social conflict within the societies of some of the participicants in the conflicts.  In the United States, some believe that the war has transcended its historical moment to become a culture icon for the turbulence of the sixties.  At any rate, there still exists a great desparity in the understandings of the social, political and historic circumstances of the war, and its continued influence on various societies.  Soc.history.war.vietnam will seek to promote a discourse which will allow these positions to be explored.  Perhaps, in this way, the newsgroup may be instrumental in achieving a better understanding of the events, and may even assist in the process of healing.    2. The Function of the Moderators       This newsgroup shall have an active moderator, and at least two co-moderators.  It shall be the responsibility of the active moderator to screen postings to the newsgroup, and elimante those which are: a. flames, insults and attacks directed at a person rather than a position; b. flames that use derogatory labels to depict whole categories of people, such as veterans or members of the anti-war movement, etc.; c. articles that have no connection to the Vietnam or Indochina wars, their causes, effects or aftermath; and d. any message of a commercial nature.  The active moderator may not screen postings for merit of argument, nor for their political or ideological content. All articles that are rejected will be sent back to the contributor with a short message explaning the reason for rejection.  Such rejections may be appealed as outlined below.       The co-moderators serve in a back-up capacity, so as to insure continuity during either a temporary or permanent change in the status of the active moderator.  In addition, the co-moderators will have the responsibility, along with the active moderator, for voting on appeals of rejected posts, the appointment of new moderators, and the possible removal of a current moderator as outlined below.   3.  Appeal of Rejection of Posts       If a contributor whose post has been rejected wishes to appeal this action, the current active moderator will forward this request and the post in question to all co-moderators for a vote.  If the majority of all moderators votes to overrule the rejection, the article will be sent to the newsgroup.  If the post is rejected, the person appealling the rejection will be sent a summary of the votes by the moderators.   4.  Appointment of New Moderators          New co-moderators will be appointed as necessary through the nomination of an individual by the other moderators. The appointment will require a unanimous vote of the current moderators to pass. The new co-moderator's name will then be submitted to the newsgroup for a five day discussion period.  During these five days, any of the current moderators may change their vote in response to this discussion.  At the end of the five days, if all the moderators are still in agreement, the nominee becomes a co-moderator.   5.  Removal of a Moderator          A moderator may be removed for the following causes: a. failure to perform the outlined duties of the position, 2. a pattern of biased or discriminatory rejections of postings.  Such removal will be made by the formal vote of all current moderators. A 2/3rds vote in favor of such action will be required for removal. The reasons for, and results of, all such votes will be posted to the newsgroup.   6. FAQ       The moderators, as a group, will be responsible for the development and posting of a frequently asked question (FAQ) file for this newsgroup.   7.  Posting of Charter and Moderators List          This charter will be reposted, along with the list of current moderators to the newsgroup every month.  NOTE  This RFD is being issued in concordance with the guidelines set in the "How to create a new usenet newsgroup" FAQ regularly posted to news.announce.newgroups. Please refer to this article if you have any questions about the newsgroup creation.  Unless the discussion indicates a need to resubmit a new RFD, the CFV will be posted approximately three to four weeks after the posting of this RFD.  This RFD was (cross)-posted to the following groups:  news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war.vietnam,soc.veterans, soc.culture.vietnamese,soc.culture.cambodia,soc.culture.laos, soc.history,soc.history.war.misc,alt.war.  ================  Previous version of charter:  1. Aim & Purpose of Soc.History.War.Vietnam          The proposed group will provide a forum for the objective discussion of the Vietnam and Indochinese war, their aftermath and  their effect on the people and societies which took part in them.  The moderator(s) will; (a) ensure that useless flamage and insults are  avoided by contributors and (b) check each post that it is appropriate to the charter of the newsgroup.   2.  Rejection of Posts          There will be an appeal process for rejected posts.  If a person whose post has been rejected wishes to appeal, the current active moderator should forward the post to all co-moderators for a vote.  If the majority of all moderators votes to overrule, then that post is sent to the newsgroup.  If the post is rejected, the person appealling the rejection will be sent a summary of the  votes by the moderators and a brief note explaining the reason for  the rejection.  3.  Appointment of New Moderators          New co-moderators will be appointed as necessary through the nomination of an individual by the other moderators.  The  appointment will require a unanimous vote of the current moderators. The new co-moderator's name will be submitted to the newsgroup for a  five day discussion period.  During these five days, any of the  current moderators may change their vote in response to this  discussion.  At the end of the five days, if all the moderators  are still in agreement, the nominee becomes a co-moderator.  4.  Removal of a Moderator          A moderator can be removed by a vote of 2/3rds of the current moderators.  5.  Posting of Charter          This charter will be reposted, along with the list of current moderators to the newsgroup every fortnight (2 weeks). --  Brian [email protected]________________________________________ 	"If you've lain in a lonely hotel in America with a remote control in your hand and picked your way with the zapper through the swamp [of pay TV], you've found out what a cultural desert is." - Clive James____________________  From [email protected] Sun Feb 12 22:48:05 1995 Status: RO Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Brian Ross <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war.vietnam,soc.veterans,soc.culture.vietnamese,soc.culture.cambodia,soc.culture.laos,soc.history,soc.history.war.misc,alt.war Subject: 2nd RFD: soc.history.war.vietnam moderated Followup-To: news.groups Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:23:55 -0500 Organization: anu.edu.au Lines: 147 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: is1.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6293 news.groups:134132 alt.war.vietnam:8853 soc.veterans:7953 soc.culture.vietnamese:102370 soc.culture.cambodia:3475 soc.culture.laos:3099 soc.history:45249 soc.history.war.misc:4352 alt.war:10971                          REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION  soc.history.war.vietnam(Moderated) Intended to cover the Vietnam War.  Contact People: Brian Ross ([email protected])                 John R. Tegtmeier <[email protected]>  This RFD was (cross)-posted to the following groups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war.vietnam,soc.veterans, soc.culture.vietnamese,soc.culture.cambodia,soc.culture.laos, soc.history,soc.history.war.misc,alt.war.  Suggested Moderators:    "John R. Tegtmeier" <[email protected]>           Co-moderators: "Richard Rohde"<[email protected]>                          "Brian Ross" <[email protected]> Distribution:       world-wide                  -----------------------------------  Justification:       The wars in Vietnam traumatised and changed a generation around the world.  In those countries that fought there and those which looked on as the nations of Indochina were consumed both during the war and after, the effects have been long lasting and extensive.       Such a war needs objective discussion to understand the effects that it has had on its participants and the societies from which they came, as well as how it affected world-wide events, politics and people.       It is believed that a moderated format, that is, one where personal insults and attacks are elimanated, will serve to create an environment in which all may post without intimidation and reluctance. The goal of the moderating process is to create a newsgroup that will promote discourse and perhaps some understanding. To this end, the moderation process, as stated below, has been limited to the removal of these personal insults and unrelated material.  Potenial posts will not be screened for either merit or ideological content, in order to ensure the widest possible access to the newsgroup.       In addition, by placing the newsgroup in the widely distributed soc. heirachy , a wider readership may be reached and more contributions will be made by interested parties with more varied opinions.       Currently, the only newsgroup specifically devoted to discussion of the Vietnam War, alt.war.vietnam, is not moderated, and it is subject to the some of the negative conditions outlined above.   Charter:  1. Aim & Purpose of Soc.History.War.Vietnam      This newsgroup will provide an open forum for the objective discussion of the Vietnam and Indochinese wars, their causes, aftermath, and effect on the people and societies which took part in them.  The use of a moderator is intended to provide an environment that is conducive to this discussion, and open to all categories of potential readers/ contributors - academics, veterans, members of the anti-war movement, students, and anyone else with an interest - without regard to ideological or political positions.       The wars in Vietnam and Indochina in the middle of the twentieth century not only bred armed conflict between combatants, but also divisiveness and social conflict within the societies of some of the participicants in the conflicts.  In the United States, some believe that the war has transcended its historical moment to become a culture icon for the turbulence of the sixties.  At any rate, there still exists a great desparity in the understandings of the social, political and historic circumstances of the war, and its continued influence on various societies.  Soc.history.war.vietnam will seek to promote a discourse which will allow these positions to be explored. Perhaps, in this way, the newsgroup may be instrumental in achieving a better understanding of the events, and may even assist in the process of healing.   2. The Function of the Moderators       This newsgroup shall have an active moderator, and at least two co-moderators.  It shall be the responsibility of the active moderator to screen postings to the newsgroup, and elimante those which are: a. flames, insults and attacks directed at a person rather than a position; b. flames that use derogatory labels to depict whole categories of people, such as veterans or members of the anti-war movement, etc.; c. articles that have no connection to the Vietnam or Indochina wars, their causes, effects or aftermath; and d. any message of a commercial nature.  The active moderator may not screen postings for merit of argument, nor for their political or ideological content. All articles that are rejected will be sent back to the contributor with a short message explaning the reason for rejection.  Such rejections may be appealed as outlined below.       The co-moderators serve in a back-up capacity, so as to insure continuity during either a temporary or permanent change in the status of the active moderator.  In addition, the co-moderators will have the responsibility, along with the active moderator, for voting on appeals of rejected posts, the appointment of new moderators, and the possible removal of a current moderator as outlined below.   3.  Appeal of Rejection of Posts       If a contributor whose post has been rejected wishes to appeal this action, the current active moderator will forward this request and the post in question to all co-moderators for a vote.  If the majority of all moderators votes to overrule the rejection, the article will be sent to the newsgroup.  If the post is rejected, the person appealling the rejection will be sent a summary of the votes by the moderators.   4.  Appointment of New Moderators          New co-moderators will be appointed as necessary through the nomination of an individual by the other moderators. The appointment will require a unanimous vote of the current moderators to pass. The new co-moderator's name will then be submitted to the newsgroup for a five day discussion period.  During these five days, any of the current moderators may change their vote in response to this discussion.  At the end of the five days, if all the moderators are still in agreement, the nominee becomes a co-moderator.   5.  Removal of a Moderator          A moderator may be removed for the following causes: a. failure to perform the outlined duties of the position, 2. a pattern of biased or discriminatory rejections of postings.  Such removal will be made by the formal vote of all current moderators. A 2/3rds vote in favor of such action will be required for removal. The reasons for, and results of, all such votes will be posted to the newsgroup.   6. FAQ       The moderators, as a group, will be responsible for the development and posting of a frequently asked question (FAQ) file for this newsgroup.   7.  Posting of Charter and Moderators List          This charter will be reposted, along with the list of current moderators to the newsgroup every month.  From [email protected] Fri Apr  7 14:54:56 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Warren Lavallee) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war.vietnam,soc.veterans,soc.culture.vietnamese,soc.culture.cambodia,soc.culture.laos,soc.history,soc.history.war.misc,alt.war Subject: CFV: soc.history.war.vietnam moderated Followup-To: poster Date: 7 Apr 1995 14:03:12 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 181 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 29 Apr 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6585 news.groups:143886 alt.war.vietnam:10343 soc.veterans:9539 soc.culture.vietnamese:113693 soc.culture.cambodia:5075 soc.culture.laos:3836 soc.history:47798 soc.history.war.misc:5368 alt.war:13153                            FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)                    moderated group soc.history.war.vietnam  Newsgroups line: soc.history.war.vietnam	The Vietnam War. (Moderated)  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 28 April 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Warren Lavallee <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact Brian Ross <[email protected]>.  DISTRIBUTION  This CFV has been cross-posted to:   alt.war.vietnam, soc.veterans, soc.culture.vietnamese, soc.culture.cambodia,   soc.culture.laos, soc.history, soc.history.war.misc, alt.war  CHARTER  1. Aim & Purpose of Soc.History.War.Vietnam      This newsgroup will provide an open forum for the objective discussion of the Vietnam and Indochinese wars, their causes, aftermath, and effect on the people and societies which took part in them.  The use of a moderator is intended to provide an environment that is conducive to this discussion, and open to all categories of potential readers/ contributors - academics, veterans, members of the anti-war movement, students, and anyone else with an interest - without regard to ideological or political positions.       The wars in Vietnam and Indochina in the middle of the twentieth century not only bred armed conflict between combatants, but also divisiveness and social conflict within the societies of some of the participicants in the conflicts.  In the United States, some believe that the war has transcended its historical moment to become a culture icon for the turbulence of the sixties.  At any rate, there still exists a great desparity in the understandings of the social, political and historic circumstances of the war, and its continued influence on various societies.  Soc.history.war.vietnam will seek to promote a discourse which will allow these positions to be explored. Perhaps, in this way, the newsgroup may be instrumental in achieving a better understanding of the events, and may even assist in the process of healing.  2. The Function of the Moderators       This newsgroup shall have an active moderator, and at least two co-moderators.  It shall be the responsibility of the active moderator to screen postings to the newsgroup, and elimante those which are: a. flames, insults and attacks directed at a person rather than a position; b. flames that use derogatory labels to depict whole categories of people, such as veterans or members of the anti-war movement, etc.; c. articles that have no connection to the Vietnam or Indochina wars, their causes, effects or aftermath; and d. any message of a commercial nature.  The active moderator may not screen postings for merit of argument, nor for their political or ideological content. All articles that are rejected will be sent back to the contributor with a short message explaning the reason for rejection.  Such rejections may be appealed as outlined below.       The co-moderators serve in a back-up capacity, so as to insure continuity during either a temporary or permanent change in the status of the active moderator.  In addition, the co-moderators will have the responsibility, along with the active moderator, for voting on appeals of rejected posts, the appointment of new moderators, and the possible removal of a current moderator as outlined below.  3.  Appeal of Rejection of Posts       If a contributor whose post has been rejected wishes to appeal this action, the current active moderator will forward this request and the post in question to all co-moderators for a vote.  If the majority of all moderators votes to overrule the rejection, the article will be sent to the newsgroup.  If the post is rejected, the person appealling the rejection will be sent a summary of the votes by the moderators.  4.  Appointment of New Moderators          New co-moderators will be appointed as necessary through the nomination of an individual by the other moderators. The appointment will require a unanimous vote of the current moderators to pass. The new co-moderator's name will then be submitted to the newsgroup for a five day discussion period.  During these five days, any of the current moderators may change their vote in response to this discussion.  At the end of the five days, if all the moderators are still in agreement, the nominee becomes a co-moderator.  5.  Removal of a Moderator          A moderator may be removed for the following causes: a. failure to perform the outlined duties of the position, 2. a pattern of biased or discriminatory rejections of postings.  Such removal will be made by the formal vote of all current moderators. A 2/3rds vote in favor of such action will be required for removal. The reasons for, and results of, all such votes will be posted to the newsgroup.  6. FAQ       The moderators, as a group, will be responsible for the development and posting of a frequently asked question (FAQ) file for this newsgroup.  7.  Posting of Charter and Moderators List          This charter will be reposted, along with the list of current moderators to the newsgroup every month.  JUSTIFICATION       The wars in Vietnam traumatised and changed a generation around the world.  In those countries that fought there and those which looked on as the nations of Indochina were consumed both during the war and after, the effects have been long lasting and extensive.       Such a war needs objective discussion to understand the effects that it has had on its participants and the societies from which they came, as well as how it affected world-wide events, politics and people.       It is believed that a moderated format, that is, one where personal insults and attacks are elimanated, will serve to create an environment in which all may post without intimidation and reluctance. The goal of the moderating process is to create a newsgroup that will promote discourse and perhaps some understanding. To this end, the moderation process, as stated below, has been limited to the removal of these personal insults and unrelated material.  Potenial posts will not be screened for either merit or ideological content, in order to ensure the widest possible access to the newsgroup.       In addition, by placing the newsgroup in the widely distributed soc. heirachy , a wider readership may be reached and more contributions will be made by interested parties with more varied opinions.       Currently, the only newsgroup specifically devoted to discussion of the Vietnam War, alt.war.vietnam, is not moderated, and it is subject to the some of the negative conditions outlined above.  Suggested Moderators:    "John R. Tegtmeier" <[email protected]>           Co-moderators: "Richard Rohde"<[email protected]>                          "Brian Ross" <[email protected]>  HOW TO VOTE  Send MAIL to:   [email protected] Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.  Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:       I vote YES on soc.history.war.vietnam       I vote NO on soc.history.war.vietnam       I vote ABSTAIN on soc.history.war.vietnam       I CANCEL my vote on soc.history.war.vietnam  Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve only to cancel any previous vote. Abstentions are noted in the final vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely. (This is the only difference between the two.)  Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid vote will count.  Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. If you attempt multiple votes or other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.  The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including how each person voted. Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret ballot.  There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed. The requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes, and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES.  From [email protected] Tue Apr 18 22:43:13 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Warren Lavallee) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war.vietnam,soc.veterans,soc.culture.vietnamese,soc.culture.cambodia,soc.culture.laos,soc.history,soc.history.war.misc,alt.war Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.history.war.vietnam Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: poster Date: 18 Apr 1995 21:24:47 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 187 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 29 Apr 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]><[email protected]><[email protected]><[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6654 news.groups:145270 alt.war.vietnam:10877 soc.veterans:9902 soc.culture.vietnamese:115972 soc.culture.cambodia:5350 soc.culture.laos:3982 soc.history:48358 soc.history.war.misc:5550 alt.war:13558                            LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)                    moderated group soc.history.war.vietnam  Newsgroups line: soc.history.war.vietnam The Vietnam War. (Moderated)  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 28 April 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Warren Lavallee <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact Brian Ross <[email protected]>.  DISTRIBUTION  This CFV has been cross-posted to:         alt.war.vietnam         soc.veterans         soc.culture.vietnamese         soc.culture.cambodia         soc.culture.laos         soc.history         soc.history.war.misc         alt.war  CHARTER  1. Aim & Purpose of Soc.History.War.Vietnam      This newsgroup will provide an open forum for the objective discussion of the Vietnam and Indochinese wars, their causes, aftermath, and effect on the people and societies which took part in them.  The use of a moderator is intended to provide an environment that is conducive to this discussion, and open to all categories of potential readers/ contributors - academics, veterans, members of the anti-war movement, students, and anyone else with an interest - without regard to ideological or political positions.       The wars in Vietnam and Indochina in the middle of the twentieth century not only bred armed conflict between combatants, but also divisiveness and social conflict within the societies of some of the participicants in the conflicts.  In the United States, some believe that the war has transcended its historical moment to become a culture icon for the turbulence of the sixties.  At any rate, there still exists a great desparity in the understandings of the social, political and historic circumstances of the war, and its continued influence on various societies.  Soc.history.war.vietnam will seek to promote a discourse which will allow these positions to be explored. Perhaps, in this way, the newsgroup may be instrumental in achieving a better understanding of the events, and may even assist in the process of healing.  2. The Function of the Moderators       This newsgroup shall have an active moderator, and at least two co-moderators.  It shall be the responsibility of the active moderator to screen postings to the newsgroup, and elimante those which are: a. flames, insults and attacks directed at a person rather than a position; b. flames that use derogatory labels to depict whole categories of people, such as veterans or members of the anti-war movement, etc.; c. articles that have no connection to the Vietnam or Indochina wars, their causes, effects or aftermath; and d. any message of a commercial nature.  The active moderator may not screen postings for merit of argument, nor for their political or ideological content. All articles that are rejected will be sent back to the contributor with a short message explaning the reason for rejection.  Such rejections may be appealed as outlined below.       The co-moderators serve in a back-up capacity, so as to insure continuity during either a temporary or permanent change in the status of the active moderator.  In addition, the co-moderators will have the responsibility, along with the active moderator, for voting on appeals of rejected posts, the appointment of new moderators, and the possible removal of a current moderator as outlined below.  3.  Appeal of Rejection of Posts       If a contributor whose post has been rejected wishes to appeal this action, the current active moderator will forward this request and the post in question to all co-moderators for a vote.  If the majority of all moderators votes to overrule the rejection, the article will be sent to the newsgroup.  If the post is rejected, the person appealling the rejection will be sent a summary of the votes by the moderators.  4.  Appointment of New Moderators          New co-moderators will be appointed as necessary through the nomination of an individual by the other moderators. The appointment will require a unanimous vote of the current moderators to pass. The new co-moderator's name will then be submitted to the newsgroup for a five day discussion period.  During these five days, any of the current moderators may change their vote in response to this discussion.  At the end of the five days, if all the moderators are still in agreement, the nominee becomes a co-moderator.  5.  Removal of a Moderator          A moderator may be removed for the following causes: a. failure to perform the outlined duties of the position, 2. a pattern of biased or discriminatory rejections of postings.  Such removal will be made by the formal vote of all current moderators. A 2/3rds vote in favor of such action will be required for removal. The reasons for, and results of, all such votes will be posted to the newsgroup.  6. FAQ       The moderators, as a group, will be responsible for the development and posting of a frequently asked question (FAQ) file for this newsgroup.  7.  Posting of Charter and Moderators List          This charter will be reposted, along with the list of current moderators to the newsgroup every month.  JUSTIFICATION       The wars in Vietnam traumatised and changed a generation around the world.  In those countries that fought there and those which looked on as the nations of Indochina were consumed both during the war and after, the effects have been long lasting and extensive.       Such a war needs objective discussion to understand the effects that it has had on its participants and the societies from which they came, as well as how it affected world-wide events, politics and people.       It is believed that a moderated format, that is, one where personal insults and attacks are elimanated, will serve to create an environment in which all may post without intimidation and reluctance. The goal of the moderating process is to create a newsgroup that will promote discourse and perhaps some understanding. To this end, the moderation process, as stated below, has been limited to the removal of these personal insults and unrelated material.  Potenial posts will not be screened for either merit or ideological content, in order to ensure the widest possible access to the newsgroup.       In addition, by placing the newsgroup in the widely distributed soc. heirachy , a wider readership may be reached and more contributions will be made by interested parties with more varied opinions.       Currently, the only newsgroup specifically devoted to discussion of the Vietnam War, alt.war.vietnam, is not moderated, and it is subject to the some of the negative conditions outlined above.  Suggested Moderators:    "John R. Tegtmeier" <[email protected]>           Co-moderators: "Richard Rohde"<[email protected]>                          "Brian Ross" <[email protected]>  HOW TO VOTE  Send MAIL to:   [email protected] Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.  Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:       I vote YES on soc.history.war.vietnam       I vote NO on soc.history.war.vietnam       I vote ABSTAIN on soc.history.war.vietnam       I CANCEL my vote on soc.history.war.vietnam  Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve only to cancel any previous vote. Abstentions are noted in the final vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely. (This is the only difference between the two.)  Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid vote will count.  Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. If you attempt multiple votes or other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.  The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including how each person voted. Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret ballot.  There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed. The requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes, and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES.  From [email protected] Mon May  1 18:24:21 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Warren Lavallee) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war.vietnam,soc.veterans,soc.culture.vietnamese,soc.culture.cambodia,soc.culture.laos,soc.history,soc.history.war.misc,alt.war Subject: RESULT: soc.history.war.vietnam passes 190:35 Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: news.groups Date: 1 May 1995 17:02:57 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 369 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6744 news.groups:147084 alt.war.vietnam:11752 soc.veterans:10696 soc.culture.vietnamese:118502 soc.culture.cambodia:5689 soc.culture.laos:4186 soc.history:49148 soc.history.war.misc:5810 alt.war:14417                                  RESULT         moderated group soc.history.war.vietnam passes 190:35   Yes   No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------  190   35 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : soc.history.war.vietnam    2 abstaining votes and 3 invalid votes    soc.history.war.vietnam passed on Thu Apr 20 10:50:52 1995  For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.  There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the passed group(s) shortly thereafter.  Newsgroups Line soc.history.war.vietnam The Vietnam War. (Moderated)   CHARTER  1. Aim & Purpose of Soc.History.War.Vietnam      This newsgroup will provide an open forum for the objective discussion of the Vietnam and Indochinese wars, their causes, aftermath, and effect on the people and societies which took part in them.  The use of a moderator is intended to provide an environment that is conducive to this discussion, and open to all categories of potential readers/ contributors - academics, veterans, members of the anti-war movement, students, and anyone else with an interest - without regard to ideological or political positions.       The wars in Vietnam and Indochina in the middle of the twentieth century not only bred armed conflict between combatants, but also divisiveness and social conflict within the societies of some of the participicants in the conflicts.  In the United States, some believe that the war has transcended its historical moment to become a culture icon for the turbulence of the sixties.  At any rate, there still exists a great desparity in the understandings of the social, political and historic circumstances of the war, and its continued influence on various societies.  Soc.history.war.vietnam will seek to promote a discourse which will allow these positions to be explored. Perhaps, in this way, the newsgroup may be instrumental in achieving a better understanding of the events, and may even assist in the process of healing.  2. The Function of the Moderators       This newsgroup shall have an active moderator, and at least two co-moderators.  It shall be the responsibility of the active moderator to screen postings to the newsgroup, and elimante those which are: a. flames, insults and attacks directed at a person rather than a position; b. flames that use derogatory labels to depict whole categories of people, such as veterans or members of the anti-war movement, etc.; c. articles that have no connection to the Vietnam or Indochina wars, their causes, effects or aftermath; and d. any message of a commercial nature.  The active moderator may not screen postings for merit of argument, nor for their political or ideological content. All articles that are rejected will be sent back to the contributor with a short message explaning the reason for rejection.  Such rejections may be appealed as outlined below.       The co-moderators serve in a back-up capacity, so as to insure continuity during either a temporary or permanent change in the status of the active moderator.  In addition, the co-moderators will have the responsibility, along with the active moderator, for voting on appeals of rejected posts, the appointment of new moderators, and the possible removal of a current moderator as outlined below.  3.  Appeal of Rejection of Posts       If a contributor whose post has been rejected wishes to appeal this action, the current active moderator will forward this request and the post in question to all co-moderators for a vote.  If the majority of all moderators votes to overrule the rejection, the article will be sent to the newsgroup.  If the post is rejected, the person appealling the rejection will be sent a summary of the votes by the moderators.  4.  Appointment of New Moderators          New co-moderators will be appointed as necessary through the nomination of an individual by the other moderators. The appointment will require a unanimous vote of the current moderators to pass. The new co-moderator's name will then be submitted to the newsgroup for a five day discussion period.  During these five days, any of the current moderators may change their vote in response to this discussion.  At the end of the five days, if all the moderators are still in agreement, the nominee becomes a co-moderator.  5.  Removal of a Moderator          A moderator may be removed for the following causes: a. failure to perform the outlined duties of the position, 2. a pattern of biased or discriminatory rejections of postings.  Such removal will be made by the formal vote of all current moderators. A 2/3rds vote in favor of such action will be required for removal. The reasons for, and results of, all such votes will be posted to the newsgroup.  6. FAQ       The moderators, as a group, will be responsible for the development and posting of a frequently asked question (FAQ) file for this newsgroup.  7.  Posting of Charter and Moderators List          This charter will be reposted, along with the list of current moderators to the newsgroup every month.  Suggested Moderators:    "John R. Tegtmeier" <[email protected]>           Co-moderators: "Richard Rohde"<[email protected]>                          "Brian Ross" <[email protected]>   [This collection of addresses is (C)1995 by Consultix Computer Services. Permission is strictly NOT given to use this list or any part thereof to make a mailing list, or for mass-mailings.  Any other use is fine.] soc.history.war.vietnam Final Vote Ack  Voted Yes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected] [email protected]                                              Jessica.DeForest [email protected]                                            Tom Jinks [email protected]                                               Ben Chitty [email protected]                                              Christian Sykes [email protected]                                  Carole Giangrande [email protected] [email protected]                                    William N. Kieser [email protected] [email protected]                                                   Andy Kravetz [email protected]                                       F Andrew McMichael [email protected]                                               William A. Lupton [email protected]                                           AnHai Doan [email protected]                                                    Jim Ault [email protected]                                     Keith Brown [email protected]                                              Bengt Larsson [email protected] [email protected]                                                     Bob Peetz [email protected]                                                   Bob McCormick [email protected]                                                Eng Born [email protected]                                               David W. Braun [email protected]                                                  Brian [email protected]                                             Raymond Bruder [email protected]                                   Brian Swanhart (GEO-DFB) [email protected]                                                 Bubbamike [email protected]                                 Richard Gadsden [email protected]                                            C. Douglas Baker [email protected]                                   Frank Chance [email protected]                                         W.R. Wells [email protected]                                       Steve Clements [email protected]                                         Chris Stamper [email protected]                                                 Cuong Nguyen [email protected]                                                John Costanza [email protected] [email protected]                Daryl Brackett - Medaphis Development [email protected]                                              David B Sasse [email protected] [email protected]                                              Dan Epstein [email protected]                                                 Daniel Efron [email protected]                                                 Doug Fritz [email protected]                                                Hoan Dinh [email protected]                                                  Lee Dixon [email protected]                                                   Daniel Laub [email protected]                                                 Doug Manzer [email protected]                                    David Martin [email protected]                                              Dan Nguyen [email protected]                                               marc (m.) donovan [email protected]                                          drieux just drieux [email protected]                                                 Lynnette [email protected]                                                    Andrew Toppan [email protected]                                         E.C. Abrahamse [email protected]                                        Tim Driscoll [email protected] [email protected]                                       LYDIA FISH [email protected]                                           GREG FRANKLIN [email protected]                                          GROVER FURR [email protected]                                            John W. Brokaw [email protected]                                              Gautam Guliani [email protected]                                                       Greg Black [email protected]                                                  Steve Nirk [email protected]                                               Kevin Gooding [email protected]                                             Paul Gregoire [email protected] [email protected]                                                    Kiran Wagle [email protected]                                Brennan Tennesen Price [email protected]                               Robert A. Hayden [email protected]                                             Helen Hegelheimer [email protected]                               martin j coghlan iii [email protected]                                       Brent Sutherland [email protected]                                   George `Sonny' Hoffman [email protected]                                        Dog Handler [email protected]                             Jack Montgomery [email protected]                                               Jack Mallory [email protected] [email protected]                                                  JANO [email protected]                                                   LYNCH.JAMES [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]                                          Joseph Lizotte [email protected]                                     Jonathan Maddox [email protected]                                          Joshua Simer [email protected]                                        john shakula [email protected] [email protected]                               Jonathan Schoenwald [email protected]                                                           Jonboy [email protected] [email protected]                                        Sudish Joseph [email protected]                                          Joseph R. Bauer Iii [email protected]                                              Jonathan Shay JUDEE%[email protected]                                   Judee Strott [email protected]                                             John Williams [email protected]                                       Khang Ngoc Nguyen [email protected]                                                       JD Delancy [email protected] [email protected]                                               Ann KELSEY [email protected]                               Kimmo Ketolainen +358 40 500 2957 [email protected]                                         Bruce Saul [email protected]                                               Robert T. Kon [email protected]                                      Ky-Anh Phan [email protected]                                   Wegner, Mike [email protected]                                        Martin Schroeder [email protected] [email protected]                                          Lewis DiFelice [email protected]                                             Luis A. Rodriguez [email protected]                                             Lundi Seng [email protected] [email protected]                                               Mark Lanigan [email protected]                            Rodrigo Martinez [email protected]                                      Mark Alan Coover [email protected]                               Marc J. Gilbert [email protected]                                             Mike Hagon [email protected]                                                  Mike Hatz [email protected]                                     Mike Chapman [email protected]                                            Lerv\O\A [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]                                 David Maurice [email protected]                                       Mike Ribotto [email protected]                             Michael Sattler, San Francisco [email protected]                                           Mike Stucka [email protected]                                                     Nigel Allen [email protected]                                        Matthias Neeracher [email protected]                                          Daniel J Sullivan [email protected]                                 Nancy 'MotorOil' Kendall [email protected]                                    Navin Ramankutty [email protected]                                                      Son Vo [email protected]                                      Carl Oguss [email protected]avh.unit.no [email protected]                              Peter Metcalfe [email protected]                                              paul d carrier [email protected]                                                           phil reed [email protected]                                           Peter Parry [email protected] [email protected]                                 Phil Gerdes  K-State Univ. [email protected]                                      John Pimentel [email protected]                             Paul Laferriere [email protected]                                      John Provo [email protected]                                              Paul Becker [email protected]                                              Rebecca Drayer [email protected]                                                          Ralph H [email protected]                                     Ralph Tuttle [email protected] [email protected]                     Rick CONTRACTOR Ellison Mr. [email protected]                               Robert T Hilberg [email protected]                                             Richard H. Miller [email protected]                                                Rick Green [email protected]                                                   Rick Scott [email protected]                                          robert arinbjarnarson [email protected]                                     Richard Rohde [email protected]                                           Robert E. Thornton [email protected]                                       Jeffrey Rufinus [email protected]                                       BLACK KNIGHT [email protected]                                           chang saehee [email protected]                                               Cynthia Grant [email protected]                      Eric Schissel - grad - Barbasch [email protected]                                                KOONTZ.STEWART [email protected]                                                 Shapard Wolf [email protected]                                    Andrew Sheriff [email protected] [email protected]                                             Barnet Sherman [email protected]                                                      S. Johnson [email protected]                                                  Doug Skeggs [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]                                      Steven Stoner [email protected] [email protected]                                                     Joe Stone [email protected]                                               David Reeve Sward [email protected] [email protected]                         telnet accountschristina craft [email protected]                                               Tara Madhyastha [email protected] [email protected]                                                Ted Burton [email protected]                                           John R. Tegtmeier [email protected]                                                      James Kiley [email protected]                                           Terminator [email protected]                                                      Tom Acree [email protected]                              Merwyn Torikian [email protected] [email protected]                                        Tim Pierce [email protected]                                         Berkman Elena [email protected]                                                     venetron [email protected]                                                   Quyen Vu [email protected]                                              William Boyle [email protected]                                              Werner Uhrig [email protected]                                              Sandra Wittman [email protected]                                         William O'Neill [email protected]                                             Walter Wylie [email protected] [email protected]                                  Xingbin Zhang  Voted No ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                             JD Smith [email protected]                                            HH Nguyen [email protected] [email protected]                                       Thuy T. Nguyen [email protected]                                                   Balaji [email protected]                                  Gerald Brunston [email protected]                                  C. A. Joiner [email protected]                                               Christopher Ward [email protected]                                             Dan Rothschild [email protected] [email protected]                                                  Ed Taychert [email protected]                                            henry Nguyen [email protected]                                                 ho (h.) nguyen [email protected] [email protected]                                 Jeff Murphy [email protected]                                                       John Leslie [email protected]                                          C. Joiner [email protected]                                                      Larry Smith [email protected]                                         Lan Pham [email protected] [email protected]                                          Nick Ingegneri [email protected]                                                          B W Moll [email protected]                                    Patrick J. LoPresti [email protected]                                      Raymond Duchesne [email protected]                                                    Ryan Waldron [email protected]                            R lindberg + E Winnie [email protected]                                                     rtuok [email protected]                                        Steve Gomes [email protected] [email protected]                                         Smarasderagd [email protected]                                                  Dwight Brown [email protected]                            Technical Intelligence-MN-USA [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]                                         Risto Widenius  Abstained ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                              Kenneth P Crouch [email protected]                                                  M. Otto   Votes in error ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                                 Dave Morning    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                                        RLHipps    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                           Melinda Schwenk    ! No vote statement in message  
 
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