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Belgium ( soc.culture.belgium )
From [email protected] Tue Mar 22 20:10:28 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Roland Siebelink) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.french,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.europe Subject: RFD: soc.culture.belgium Followup-To: news.groups Date: 15 Mar 1994 17:37:56 -0500 Organization: CSNMIT/Vrije Universiteit Brussel Lines: 271 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4769 news.groups:98244 soc.culture.netherlands:18570 soc.culture.french:35848 soc.culture.german:35958 soc.culture.europe:30684 [Voir plus loin pour une tentative de traduction frangaise] [Nederlandse vertaling aan het einde] --------------- English --------------- This is a formal Request for Discussion. Please distribute it on all platforms that might be interested. Follow-up messages to this request are directed to the sole newsgroup intended for this purpose: news.groups. Please stick to this Usenet convention and post your contributions to our discussion in that newsgroup. Everyone interested in this proposal is strongly encouraged to participate in the discussion. NAME AND STATUS soc.culture.belgium (unmoderated) PURPOSE The proposed newsgroup soc.culture.belgium is intended as a platform for all information and discussions about Belgium and its people(s). This means all social, cultural, political, economical, historical, geographical and other issues that are, in one way or another, related to the Belgians or their country. Everyone interested in Belgium, regardless of nationality or language, is welcome. Also, it is hoped that soc.culture.belgium will be a meaningful means of contact between Belgians at home and abroad. BACKGROUND Belgium's trilingual status may have prevented the creation of a specific newsgroup about Belgium up to now. Most Belgians may have regarded either soc.culture.netherlands, soc.culture.french or soc.culture.germany as their "home" group, according to their mother tongue. The soc.culture.belgium newsgroup is intended not so much as a substitute, but more as an addition to these linguistically defined groups. In the new newsgroup, Belgians (and non-Belgians) of all languages can discuss issues specific to Belgium, which would strike non-Belgian readers of the groups named above as odd. Also, a proper newsgroup about Belgium will be less confusing to a non-specialized Usenet reader who wants to find information about or people >from Belgium regardless of their language. Some sites have been reported to carry a bogus newsgroup by the name of soc.culture.belgium already. The official creation of soc.culture.belgium according to agreed Usenet procedures will facilitate access for people all over the world to information about Belgium, not the least for people in Belgium itself. RULES Soc.culture.belgium will be an unmoderated newsgroup; thus anyone will be able to post to this newsgroup. But being free to post should also mean being responsible for what you post. All articles posted should have something to do with Belgium or the people living there, however remotely. Insults, "flames" or unnecessary criticism of a group or a person is strongly discouraged. Please read the netiquette rules in news.announce.newusers before posting your first article to any newsgroup, and try to stick to them whenever posting articles. LANGUAGES Preferably English as a neutral "common ground" language; also Dutch (Flemish), French and German (three official Belgian state languages). CHARACTER SETS Articles should be sent in the standard 7 bit ASCII character set, conform to RFC822. If accented characters are necessary (French, German or Dutch postings), it is allowed to use the standard 8 bit ISO-8859-1 character set. Other language- or machine-specific character sets are not acceptable in this newsgroup. RFD Discussion on soc.culture.belgium will last 30 days. A revised RFD will be posted after 15 days. It will reflect all suggestions and opinions contributors have provided during the discussion. If ample consensus is reached after discussions, a call for votes will follow. --------------- Frangais --------------- [Chhrs lecteurs francophones, veuillez bien m'excuser pour les erreurs que j'ai faites. Si vous voulez, veuillez m'aider ` perfectionner ce texte en frangais] Ceci est une demande de discussion formelle (RFD). Veuillez bien le distribuer entre des personnes intiressies n'importe oy. Les riponses ` cette demande seront dirigies au seul groupe qui convient ` une telle discussion: news.groups. Veuillez vous conformer ` cette habitude Usenet et mettre vos contributions ` notre discussion dans ce newsgroup. Tous ceux qui s'intiressent ` ce propos sont bien priis de participer ` cette discussion. NOM ET STATUT soc.culture.belgium (pas modiri). OBJECTIF Le newsgroup en question, soc.culture.belgium, est proposi pour servir comme espace pour tous les informations et les discussions sur la Belgique et son/ses peuple(s). C'est ` dire tous les thhmes sociales, culturelles, politiques, historiques, giographiques etc. qui sont liies, de n'importe quel fagon, aux Belges ou ` leur pays. Chacun qui s'intiresse ` la Belgique est bienvenue, quelle que soit la langue maternelle ou la nationaliti. En plus, on esphre bien que soc.culture.belgium sera un moyen de communication trhs significant entre les Belges ` l'etranger et ceux en Belgique. CONTEXTE Le statut trilingue de la Belgique pourrant bien jtre la cause principale pour le fait qu'un newsgroup spicifique pour la Belgique n'existe pas encore. Peut-jtre la plupart des Belges ont priferi soc.culture.french, soc.culture.netherlands ou bien soc.culture.germany pour les messages divers, conforme avec leur langue maternelle. Le newsgroup soc.culture.belgium ne veut pas remplager ces autres newsgroups, mais les compliter. Dans le nouveau newsgroup, les Belges (et non-Belges) de toutes langues pourront discuter des thhmes spicifiquement Belges, que les lecteurs des autres groupes nommis ci-dessus considiraient itrange. En plus, un newsgroup propre ` la Belgique riduirait la confusion d'un lecteur Usenet non-spicialiste, qui voudrait trouver des renseignements sur ou des gens de la Belgique, sans prendre en compte la langue. Il semble y avoir des organisations qui ont dij` un newsgroup non-agrie du nom de soc.culture.belgium. La criation officielle selon les procidures accepties au Usenet va sans doute faciliter l'acchs des gens de n'importe oy dans le monde ` l'information concernant la Belgique, aussi pour les Belges eux-mjmes. RHGLES Soc.culture.belgium sera un newsgroup sans modirateur. Alors, il sera permis ` chacun(e) d'afficher un message dans ce newsgroup. Mais la liberti d'affichage suppose aussi une responsabiliti d'affichage. Tous les messages affichis devraient concerner la Belgique ou les gens qui y habitent, mjme ci ce n'est qu'un rapport trhs faible. Insultations, +flames; ou critique innicessaire d'une personne ou d'un groupe ne sont pas acceptables. Veuillez lire les rhgles de netiquette dans news.announce.newusers avant de faire afficher votre premihre article dans un newsgroup, et essayez de suivre ces rhgles pour toutes les articles qui vous envoyez. LANGUES L'anglais, de prifirence (comme langue +neutre;); aussi le frangais, le nierlandais (flamand) et l'allemand - les trois langues officielles de la Belgique. TABLEAU DE CARACTHRES Les articles doivent jtre icrites dans le tableau de caracthres standard 7 bit ASCII, conforme ` RFC822. Si votre message prisuppose des caracthres accenties, il est permis d'utiliser le tableau de caracthres standard 8 bit, ISO-8859-1. Les autres tableaux de caracthres, spicifiques ` une langue ou une machine, ne sont pas acceptables dans ce newsgroup. RFD La discussion de soc.culture.belgium va durer 30 jours. Une rivision de la prisente RFD sera affichie aprhs 15 jours; elle va tenir compte de toutes les suggestions et les opinions qui ont iti fournies pendant la premihre partie de la discussion. Si l'on est arrivi ` un consensus suffisant aprhs les discussions, une demande de votes (CFV) va suivre. --------------- Nederlands --------------- Dit is een formeel verzoek om discussie (RFD). Gelieve het op alle fora te verspreiden die geonteresseerd zouden kunnen zijn. Reacties op dit verzoek worden doorgestuurd naar de enige nieuwsgroep die daarvoor bedoeld is: news.groups. Gelieve u aan de Usenet conventie te houden en post uw bijdragen aan deze discussie in die nieuwsgroep. Iedere geonteresseerde in dit voorstel wordt ten zeerste aangespoord aan de discussie deel te nemen. NAAM EN STATUS soc.culture.belgium (niet gemodereerd) DOELSTELLING De voorgestelde nieuwsgroep, soc.culture.belgium, is bedoeld als forum voor alle informatie en discussies over Belgik en het/de Belgische volk(eren). Dit geldt dus voor alle sociale, culturele, politieke, economische, historische, geografische en andere thema's die op welke manier dan ook verband houden met de Belgen of hun land. Iedereen die geonteresseerd is in Belgik, ongeacht taal of nationaliteit, is welkom. Bovendien hopen we dat soc.culture.belgium een belangrijk contactmedium tussen Belgen in het binnen- en het buitenland zal blijken. ACHTERGROND De Belgische drietaligheid heeft misschien tot nu toe de aanmaak van een specifieke nieuwsgroep over Belgik verhinderd. Wellicht hebben de meeste Belgen zich voorlopig opgehouden in soc.culture.netherlands, soc.culture.french of soc.culture.germany, naar gelang hun moedertaal. De groep soc.culture.belgium is niet zozeer als vervanging, maar meer als aanvulling van deze taalkundig afgebakende groepen bedoeld. In de nieuwe nieuwsgroep zouden Belgen (en niet-Belgen) ongeacht hun taal specifiek Belgische thema's bespreken, die bij niet-Belgische lezers van bovengenoemde groepen vreemd zouden overkomen. Bovendien zou een eigen nieuwsgroep over Belgik minder verwarrend zijn voor de niet-gespecialiseerde Usenet-lezer die informatie over of mensen uit Belgik wil vinden ongeacht de taal. Op enkele sites zou reeds een niet-officikle nieuwsgroup onder de naam soc.culture.belgium bestaan. De officikle aanmaak van soc.culture.belgium volgens algemeen aanvaarde Usenet-procedures zal de toegang van mensen uit de hele wereld tot informatie over Belgik vergemakkelijken, niet het minst voor de mensen in Belgik zelf. REGELS Soc.culture.belgium zal niet gemodereerd worden; iedereen kan dus vrij berichten posten in de nieuwsgroep. Maar deze vrijheid om te posten veronderstelt ook een verantwoordelijkheid ten opzichte van wat je post. Alle artikelen zouden iets met Belgik of zijn inwoners te maken moeten hebben, al is het maar een klein beetje. Beledigingen, "flames" of onnodige kritiek op een groep of een persoon wordt ten stelligste afgeraden. Gelieve de netiquette-regels in news.announce.newusers te lezen vooraleer je eerste artikel in om het even welke nieuwsgroep te posten en u eraan te houden bij ieder artikel dat gepost wordt. TALEN Bij voorkeur Engels als neutrale gemeenschappelijke taal; daarnaast Nederlands, Frans en Duits (de drie officikle talen van Belgik). TEKENSETS Berichten moeten worden opgesteld in de standaard 7-bits ASCII-tekenset, in overeenstemming met RFC822. Voor letters met accenten (berichten in het Frans, Duits of Nederlands) mag ook de standaard 8-bits ISO-8859-1-tekenset gebruikt worden. Andere, taal- of machinespecifieke tekensets worden niet aanvaard in de nieuwsgroep. RFD Er kan 30 dagen lang over soc.culture.belgium gediscussieerd worden. Na 15 dagen zal er een herziene RFD gepost worden, die rekening houdt met de suggesties en meningen van deelnemers aan de discussie. Als er voldoende consensus bestaat na de discussies, zal er een stemoproep (CFV) worden gelanceerd. -- Roland Siebelink <[email protected]> Centre for Studies on New Media, Information and Telecommunication Dept. of Communication Studies, Brussels Free University VUB Tel. +32.2.6412412/15; Fax +32.2.6412861. From May 1994: +32.2.629.... From [email protected] Tue Mar 29 20:09:51 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Roland Siebelink) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.french,soc.culture.europe Subject: 2nd RFD: soc.culture.belgium Followup-To: news.groups Date: 29 Mar 1994 17:22:53 -0500 Organization: CSNMIT/Vrije Universiteit Brussel Lines: 94 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4848 news.groups:99448 soc.culture.netherlands:19053 soc.culture.french:36753 soc.culture.europe:31297 [Traduction francaise disponible sur demande par courrier electronique] [Nederlandse vertaling beschikbaar op aanvraag via elektronische post] [Only the section on language use in the newsgroup has been changed a bit, since this was the only point which generated sufficient debate. I removed the word "preferably" after English, so all four languages are now equal in the charter. People are therefore free to choose the language which they deem most appropriate.] This is the second formal Request for Discussion for this newsgroup. Please distribute it on all platforms that might be interested. Follow-up messages to this request are directed to the sole newsgroup intended for this purpose: news.groups. Please stick to this Usenet convention and post your contributions to our discussion in that newsgroup. Everyone interested in this proposal is strongly encouraged to participate in the discussion. NAME AND STATUS soc.culture.belgium (unmoderated) PURPOSE The proposed newsgroup soc.culture.belgium is intended as a platform for all information and discussions about Belgium and its people(s). This means all social, cultural, political, economical, historical, geographical and other issues that are, in one way or another, related to the Belgians or their country. Everyone interested in Belgium, regardless of nationality or language, is welcome. Also, it is hoped that soc.culture.belgium will be a meaningful means of contact between Belgians at home and abroad. BACKGROUND Belgium's trilingual status may have prevented the creation of a specific newsgroup about Belgium up to now. Most Belgians may have regarded either soc.culture.netherlands, soc.culture.french or soc.culture.germany as their "home" group, according to their mother tongue. The soc.culture.belgium newsgroup is intended not so much as a substitute, but more as an addition to these linguistically defined groups. In the new newsgroup, Belgians (and non-Belgians) of all languages can discuss issues specific to Belgium, which would strike non-Belgian readers of the groups named above as odd. Also, a proper newsgroup about Belgium will be less confusing to a non-specialized Usenet reader who wants to find information about or people >from Belgium regardless of their language. Some sites have been reported to carry a bogus newsgroup by the name of soc.culture.belgium already. The official creation of soc.culture.belgium according to agreed Usenet procedures will facilitate access for people all over the world to information about Belgium, not the least for people in Belgium itself. RULES Soc.culture.belgium will be an unmoderated newsgroup; thus anyone will be able to post to this newsgroup. But being free to post should also mean being responsible for what you post. All articles posted should have something to do with Belgium or the people living there, however remotely. Insults, "flames" or unnecessary criticism of a group or a person is strongly discouraged. Please read the netiquette rules in news.announce.newusers before posting your first article to any newsgroup, and try to stick to them whenever posting articles. LANGUAGES English, Dutch (=Flemish), French and German. CHARACTER SETS Articles should be sent in the standard 7 bit ASCII character set, conform to RFC822. If accented characters are necessary (French, German or Dutch postings), it is allowed to use the standard 8 bit ISO-8859-1 character set. Other language- or machine-specific character sets are not acceptable in this newsgroup. RFD Discussion on soc.culture.belgium will last 30 days. A revised RFD will be posted after 15 days. It will reflect all suggestions and opinions contributors have provided during the discussion. If ample consensus is reached after discussions, a call for votes will follow. -- Roland Siebelink <[email protected]> Centre for Studies on New Media, Information and Telecommunication Dept. of Communication Studies, Brussels Free University VUB Tel. +32.2.6412412/15; Fax +32.2.6412861. From May 1994: +32.2.629.... From [email protected] Tue Apr 19 17:51:56 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Jan Isley) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.french,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.misc,soc.culture.netherlands Subject: CFV: soc.culture.belgium Followup-To: poster Date: 18 Apr 1994 16:43:20 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 102 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 10 May 1994 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] (Jan Isley) Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4964 news.groups:101082 soc.culture.europe:32422 soc.culture.french:37897 soc.culture.german:37883 soc.culture.misc:4117 soc.culture.netherlands:19647 FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group soc.culture.belgium Newsgroups line: soc.culture.belgium Belgian society, culture(s) and people. Votes must be received by 9 May 1994, 23:59:59 GMT. Please read this entire post before replying. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Please direct all questions about the vote to Jan Isley <[email protected]>. Please direct all questions regarding the proposed new group to the proponent, Roland Siebelink <[email protected]>. CHARTER The proposed newsgroup soc.culture.belgium is intended as a platform for all information and discussions about Belgium and its people(s). This means all social, cultural, political, economical, historical, geographical and other issues that are, in one way or another, related to the Belgians or their country. Everyone interested in Belgium, regardless of nationality or language, is welcome. Also, it is hoped that soc.culture.belgium will be a meaningful means of contact between Belgians at home and abroad. Background Belgium's trilingual status may have prevented the creation of a specific newsgroup about Belgium up to now. Most Belgians may have regarded either soc.culture.netherlands, soc.culture.french or soc.culture.germany as their "home" group, according to their mother tongue. The soc.culture.belgium newsgroup is intended not so much as a substitute, but more as an addition to these linguistically defined groups. In the new newsgroup, Belgians (and non-Belgians) of all languages can discuss issues specific to Belgium, which would strike non-Belgian readers of the groups named above as odd. Also, a proper newsgroup about Belgium will be less confusing to a non-specialized Usenet reader who wants to find information about or people >From Belgium regardless of their language. Some sites have been reported to carry a bogus newsgroup by the name of soc.culture.belgium already. The official creation of soc.culture.belgium according to agreed Usenet procedures will facilitate access for people all over the world to information about Belgium, not the least for people in Belgium itself. Rules Soc.culture.belgium will be an unmoderated newsgroup; thus anyone will be able to post to this newsgroup. But being free to post should also mean being responsible for what you post. All articles posted should have something to do with Belgium or the people living there, however remotely. Insults, "flames" or unnecessary criticism of a group or a person is strongly discouraged. Please read the netiquette rules in news.announce.newusers before posting your first article to any newsgroup, and try to stick to them whenever posting articles. Languages English, Dutch (=Flemish), French and German. Character Sets Articles should be sent in the standard 7 bit ASCII character set, conform to RFC822. If accented characters are necessary (French, German or Dutch postings), it is allowed to use the standard 8 bit ISO-8859-1 character set. Other language- or machine-specific character sets are not acceptable in this newsgroup. VOTING INSTRUCTIONS Your vote will be counted by a program. Please use the template below and follow the instructions *exactly*. Send mail to [email protected] containing these three lines in the body (not the header!): ballot-scb My name is XXX I vote ___ on soc.culture.belgium Replace XXX with your name (not your email address!). Replace ___ with either YES, NO, or ABSTAIN. Use the template *exactly* and delete all other text from this post. If you get creative with spaces or case, if you mispell the group name, etc... your vote may be rejected by the vote counting program. You should receive a personal acknowledgment by email within a few days. It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. ONE VOTE PER PERSON, no more than one person per account. Voting from multiple accounts may result in all of your votes being rejected. All voter's addresses and votes will be published in the final results list. Do NOT distribute mutated voting instructions. This can cause serious problems for the voters who use them and for me as vote taker. If you are in any doubt, please contact me - I'll be very happy to advise you. -- Jan Isley <[email protected]> votes-to: <[email protected]> From [email protected] Wed May 4 17:43:22 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Jan Isley) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.french,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.misc,soc.culture.netherlands Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.culture.belgium Followup-To: poster Date: 27 Apr 1994 08:57:42 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 137 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 10 May 1994 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] (Jan Isley) NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5012 news.groups:102040 soc.culture.europe:33064 soc.culture.french:38327 soc.culture.german:38611 soc.culture.misc:4131 soc.culture.netherlands:19879 LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group soc.culture.belgium Newsgroups line: soc.culture.belgium Belgian society, culture(s) and people. Votes must be received by 9 May 1994, 23:59:59 GMT. Please read this entire post before replying. Do not assume that you know how to vote without first reading the directions. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Please direct all questions about the vote to Jan Isley <[email protected]>. Please direct all questions regarding the proposed new group to the proponent, Roland Siebelink <[email protected]>. CHARTER The proposed newsgroup soc.culture.belgium is intended as a platform for all information and discussions about Belgium and its people(s). This means all social, cultural, political, economical, historical, geographical and other issues that are, in one way or another, related to the Belgians or their country. Everyone interested in Belgium, regardless of nationality or language, is welcome. Also, it is hoped that soc.culture.belgium will be a meaningful means of contact between Belgians at home and abroad. Background Belgium's trilingual status may have prevented the creation of a specific newsgroup about Belgium up to now. Most Belgians may have regarded either soc.culture.netherlands, soc.culture.french or soc.culture.germany as their "home" group, according to their mother tongue. The soc.culture.belgium newsgroup is intended not so much as a substitute, but more as an addition to these linguistically defined groups. In the new newsgroup, Belgians (and non-Belgians) of all languages can discuss issues specific to Belgium, which would strike non-Belgian readers of the groups named above as odd. Also, a proper newsgroup about Belgium will be less confusing to a non-specialized Usenet reader who wants to find information about or people >From Belgium regardless of their language. Some sites have been reported to carry a bogus newsgroup by the name of soc.culture.belgium already. The official creation of soc.culture.belgium according to agreed Usenet procedures will facilitate access for people all over the world to information about Belgium, not the least for people in Belgium itself. Rules Soc.culture.belgium will be an unmoderated newsgroup; thus anyone will be able to post to this newsgroup. But being free to post should also mean being responsible for what you post. All articles posted should have something to do with Belgium or the people living there, however remotely. Insults, "flames" or unnecessary criticism of a group or a person is strongly discouraged. Please read the netiquette rules in news.announce.newusers before posting your first article to any newsgroup, and try to stick to them whenever posting articles. Languages English, Dutch (=Flemish), French and German. Character Sets Articles should be sent in the standard 7 bit ASCII character set, conform to RFC822. If accented characters are necessary (French, German or Dutch postings), it is allowed to use the standard 8 bit ISO-8859-1 character set. Other language- or machine-specific character sets are not acceptable in this newsgroup. HOW TO VOTE Send MAIL to: <[email protected]> Easy voting instructions: 1) use the ballot 2) replace ___ with your name (not your address) This line is required only if your mail software does not include your name in the From: header. 3) delete the rest of this post, leaving only the two lines that indicate your name and your vote 4) mail it to [email protected] -=-=- begin ballot - delete everything above this line -=-=- My name is ___ Include only ONE of the following statements: ( okay to delete this line ) I vote YES on soc.culture.belgium I vote NO on soc.culture.belgium I vote ABSTAIN on soc.culture.belgium -=-=- end ballot - delete everything below this line -=-=- Your vote will be counted by a program, so please use the ballot and delete all other text from this post. If your name is not included or if the group name is not spelled correctly your vote will be rejected. The vote taker will acknowledge all received ballots by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. ONE VOTE PER PERSON, no more than one person per account. Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote. Voting >from multiple accounts may result in all of your votes being rejected. Please, do not distribute mutated voting instructions. This usually causes serious problems for the voters who use them and for the vote taker. When in doubt, please ask the vote taker. soc.culture.belgium Bounce List --------------------------------------------------------------------------- cc3.kuleuven.ac.be!stk%WIS!Hans=Plets Hans Plets eecs.berkeley.edu!preneel Bart PRENEEL fsw-extern.fsw.ruu.nl!Dirk_Jacobs_at_FSW__POST!smtplink Dirk Jacobs info.vub.ac.be!yjapts Yoeri Apts magic.itg.ti.com!mimi!SEMY Doug Schultz qmrelay.mail.cornell.edu!elisabeth_wallhausser-franke1 Elisabeth Wallhau risc.uni-linz.ac.at!Dirk.van.den.Sanden Dirk Van der Sanden vnet3.vub.ac.be!pverhoes Pascal Verhoest vnet3.vub.ac.be!rcsiebel Roland Siebelink vnet3.vub.ac.be!tdobrowi Tadeusz P Dobrowiecki [email protected] Willem Dubelaar Votes in error --------------------------------------------------------------------------- vpnet.UUCP!vagrant ! No name given -- Jan Isley <[email protected]> votes-to: <[email protected]> From [email protected] Wed May 11 15:01:18 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Jan Isley) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.french,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.misc,soc.culture.netherlands Subject: RESULT: soc.culture.belgium passes 317:26 Followup-To: news.groups Date: 10 May 1994 15:34:45 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 437 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5075 news.groups:103206 soc.culture.europe:33439 soc.culture.french:39114 soc.culture.german:39805 soc.culture.misc:4180 soc.culture.netherlands:20355 unmoderated group soc.culture.belgium passes 317:26 There were 317 YES votes and 26 NO votes, for a total of 343 valid votes. There was 1 abstain and 3 invalid ballots. For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes. There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter. Newsgroups line: soc.culture.belgium Belgian society, culture(s) and people. This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Please direct all questions about the vote to Jan Isley <[email protected]>. CHARTER The proposed newsgroup soc.culture.belgium is intended as a platform for all information and discussions about Belgium and its people(s). This means all social, cultural, political, economical, historical, geographical and other issues that are, in one way or another, related to the Belgians or their country. Everyone interested in Belgium, regardless of nationality or language, is welcome. Also, it is hoped that soc.culture.belgium will be a meaningful means of contact between Belgians at home and abroad. Background Belgium's trilingual status may have prevented the creation of a specific newsgroup about Belgium up to now. Most Belgians may have regarded either soc.culture.netherlands, soc.culture.french or soc.culture.germany as their "home" group, according to their mother tongue. The soc.culture.belgium newsgroup is intended not so much as a substitute, but more as an addition to these linguistically defined groups. In the new newsgroup, Belgians (and non-Belgians) of all languages can discuss issues specific to Belgium, which would strike non-Belgian readers of the groups named above as odd. Also, a proper newsgroup about Belgium will be less confusing to a non-specialized Usenet reader who wants to find information about or people >From Belgium regardless of their language. Some sites have been reported to carry a bogus newsgroup by the name of soc.culture.belgium already. The official creation of soc.culture.belgium according to agreed Usenet procedures will facilitate access for people all over the world to information about Belgium, not the least for people in Belgium itself. Rules Soc.culture.belgium will be an unmoderated newsgroup; thus anyone will be able to post to this newsgroup. But being free to post should also mean being responsible for what you post. All articles posted should have something to do with Belgium or the people living there, however remotely. Insults, "flames" or unnecessary criticism of a group or a person is strongly discouraged. Please read the netiquette rules in news.announce.newusers before posting your first article to any newsgroup, and try to stick to them whenever posting articles. Languages English, Dutch (=Flemish), French and German. Character Sets Articles should be sent in the standard 7 bit ASCII character set, conform to RFC822. If accented characters are necessary (French, German or Dutch postings), it is allowed to use the standard 8 bit ISO-8859-1 character set. Other language- or machine-specific character sets are not acceptable in this newsgroup. soc.culture.belgium Final Vote Ack Voted Yes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- aaa.ine.philips.nl!anton Anton Mandos ac.duke.edu!mg Michael Grubb academ01.mty.itesm.mx!al346123 Mario A. Escamilla access.digex.net!spirn Eve Avedon Spirn acs.ucalgary.ca!mamaes Marc Maes aisb.edinburgh.ac.uk!judithg Judith Good amrit.Stanford.EDU!engels Marc Engels andrew.cmu.edu!mf0w+ Michel Fougeres aol.com!johnydark John Stevenson apollo.hp.com!dlm David Maddox asterix.bio.sunysb.edu!marie marie de crombrugghe bavax.bartho.ulg.ac.be!bartholome Michel Bartholome bellcore.com!moulin Pierre Moulin belnet.be!Eric.Luyten Eric Luyten belnet.be!Stephan.Biesbroeck Stephan Biesbroeck bipsy.se.bel.alcatel.be!KVD2 Kurt Van den Branden bldghsc.lan1.umanitoba.ca!STEVENS Frits Stevens bnr.co.uk!D.W.Wright David Wright bongo.stanford.edu!vlassak J. Vlassak bravo.aston.ac.uk!GILESJ Jeremy Giles bronze.lcs.mit.edu!buglady Aliza R. Panitz brown.edu!Peter_Uvin Peter Uvin cae.wisc.edu!rufinus J. Rufinus cas.org!kbg00 Ken Gilbert cbnewsg.att.com!r2d Richard Del Monaco cc.fundp.ac.be!yblondeel Yves Blondeel cc.gatech.edu!gil Gil Neiger cc.kuleuven.ac.be!peter.arien Peter Arien cc1.kuleuven.ac.be!BDIEHL11.bitnet!ITM1 Caroline Hermans cc1.kuleuven.ac.be!GUTEST7 Ivo Clarysse cc3.kuleuven.ac.be!stk%WIS!Hans=Plets Hans Plets ccmail.adp.wisc.edu!Janice.Kepka Janice Kepka cen.jrc.it!marc.van-liedekerke Marc van Liedekerke cen.jrc.it!marc.wilikens Marc Wilikens cen.jrc.it!rita.van-dingenen Rita Van Dingenen CERIM.INSA-LYON.FR!ERIC Eric Maurincomme cg.ensmp.fr!allard Denis Allard chopin.udel.edu!inge Inge Ceuppens chorus.fr!mike Mike Bayliss cisco.com!gcoppens Geert Coppens cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bn293 Doug Shannon CMU.EDU!gspear+ Geoffrey Spear cnj.digex.net!clong Chris Long cogsci.edinburgh.ac.uk!bart Bart Van Hoorick cogsci.edinburgh.ac.uk!bernhard Bernhard Lahres cogsci.edinburgh.ac.uk!briansm Brian Smith cogsci.edinburgh.ac.uk!hulstijn Joris Hulstijn cogsci.edinburgh.ac.uk!kversp Karin Verspoor cogsci.edinburgh.ac.uk!marc Marc Moens cogsci.edinburgh.ac.uk!nous Pal Cseres columbia.edu!bgt2 Bart Turtelboom columbia.edu!bsb2 David Black comlab.oxford.ac.uk!Gael.Lambin Gael Lambin CompuServe.COM!71670.261 Guido Bossaert cornell.edu!ads2 Aaron Daniel Sasson cornell.edu!djs5 Daniel Simons cornell.edu!dre1 Doug Elrod cornell.edu!fh10 Frederick Horan cornell.edu!gg17 Gary Gruberth Cornell.edu!James_Beale James Beale cornell.edu!jfd3 Jeannine Delwiche cornell.edu!jss3 Janie Shinn cornell.edu!nmv1 Nicole Viaene cornell.edu!ps16 Patrick Simoens cornell.edu!pv10 Peter Vishton cornell.edu!tvs1 Tom Smulders cpsc.ucalgary.ca!hudda Alkarim Hudda crhc.uiuc.edu!blj Bob Janssens crosby.ericsson.se!etmgizw Gil Zweers crux2.cit.cornell.edu!ro11 ROHAN OBEROI cs.albany.edu!ault Jim Ault cs.brown.edu!pvh Pascal Van Hentenryck cs.cuhk.hk!vandevod David Vandevoorde cs.kuleuven.ac.be!Dirk.Dussart Dirk Dussart cs.kuleuven.ac.be!Gunther.Sablon Gunther Sablon cs.kuleuven.ac.be!Henk.VanWulpen Henk Van Wulpen cs.kuleuven.ac.be!horemans Jan Horemans cs.kuleuven.ac.be!Maurits.Malfait Maurits Malfait cs.kuleuven.ac.be!Philip.Dutre Phil Dutre cs.kuleuven.ac.be!Remco.Moolenaar Remco Moolenaar cs.kuleuven.ac.be!Stefan.VanBaelen Stefan Van Baelen cs.kuleuven.ac.be!uytterho Geert Uytterhoeven cs.kuleuven.ac.be!vdauwera Nathan Van der Auwera cs.kuleuven.ac.be!Wim.Peeters Wim Peeters cs.kun.nl!will Wil Lamain cs.tulane.edu!winstead Teddy Winstead cs.ubc.ca!kvdoel Kees van den Doel cs.utk.edu!eijkhout Victor Eijkhou cs.utwente.nl!HVDPLOEG Harmen-Jan van der Ploeg cs.utwente.nl!kenter Arjan Kenter cs.vu.nl!gerben Gerben Vos cs.wisc.edu!pnevmati Dionisios Pnevmatikatos csl.sni.be!Eric.Vyncke Eric Vyncke ct.utwente.nl!W.F.C.Kools Willem Kools d92.cb.sni.be!manu Manu Aerts daniel.saclay.cea.fr!jerome JEROME BAUDRY darkstar.irony.com!elt Ed Taychert dcs.ed.ac.uk!mjrgm Muriel Mewissen delphi.com!JPDENIS Jean-Pierre DENIS delphi.com!MARGUERITEM Margot LeBreton Merz delphi.com!MELMCDOWELL Melvin C. McDowell, Esq depauw.finning.wimsey.com!depauw Frangoise De Pauw depauw.finning.wimsey.com!tom Tom De Pauw dgm.epfl.ch!luc.machiels Luc Machiels DI.UniPi.IT!abragad Alessio F. Bragadini dice.ucl.ac.be!Lheureux Olivier L'Heureux dorsai.dorsai.org!jfortt Joseph Fortt dosuni1.rz.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE!BJOESTOE Bjoern Stoecker draco.bison.mb.ca!jim Jim Jaworski due.unit.no!laschet W.Laschet eecs.berkeley.edu!preneel Bart PRENEEL eecs.umich.edu!nlulco Jan-Ulco Kluiwstra eeiatus01.ericsson.se!eeipre Paul Rynne elis.rug.ac.be!Koen.DeBosschere Koen De Bosschere elm.unican.es!jeroen Jeroen Hoen elmer1.bobst.nyu.edu!DEBELDER Kurt De Belder email.mot.com!TXG171 Joachim van Dijk Eng.Sun.COM!Eric.Brunner Eric Brunner erenj.com!ewcorco E.W. Corcoran erfsys01.boeing.com!crp5754 Chris Payne ErlH.Siemens.DE!plets Peter Plets FAB10.intel.com!JVANDESANDE Jan Vandesande fermi.phys.ualberta.ca!decon Bernard Deconinck festival.edinburgh.ac.uk!kjmh Kim Hardie flab.fujitsu.co.jp!eric Eric Visser freeport.uwasa.fi!kamphui BertJan Kamphuis freya.cs.umass.edu!lmccarth Lewis McCarthy fs.com.au!john John Sims fsw-extern.fsw.ruu.nl!Dirk_Jacobs_at_FSW__POST!smtplink Dirk Jacobs gaLCon.ERSYS.edmonton.ab.ca!yadallee Dave Shariff Yadallee gene.ucl.ac.be!bernard Nathalie BERNARD gps1.leeds.ac.uk!pabvjlf V. FOURCASSIE grec.ma2.upc.es!kees Kees de Groot GSB.UChicago.EDU!Ingrid.Tierens Ingrid Tierens gw.unipc.ulg.ac.be!grodent GRODENT Denis gw.unipc.ulg.ac.be!haus Jacques Haus gw.unipc.ulg.ac.be!roland Roland Schoenauen gw.unipc.ulg.ac.be!ronday Frangois Ronday hasler.ascom.ch!pasche Serge Pasche hep.iihe.ac.be!Erik.Evrard Erik Evrard herbison.com!bjv B.J. Herbison ibmsp2.elis.rug.ac.be!cremelie Nick Cremelie igwe.vub.ac.be!krisl Kris Lebacq imec.be!depuydtl L. Depuydt imec.be!ogiers WERNER OGIERS imec.be!vthourn Bart Vanthournout imhfhp32.epfl.ch!collige Collige Olivier imhfhp32.epfl.ch!mompean Gilmar Mompean imhfhp32.epfl.ch!prudhom Olivier PRUD'HOMM imhfhp33.epfl.ch!leriche Emmanuel Leriche imhfhp34.epfl.ch!borresen Bjarne Borresen jr imhfhp34.epfl.ch!tegner Jon Tegner imhfsg1.epfl.ch!byrde Olivier Byrde info.fundp.ac.be!pdu Philippe Du Bois info.ucl.ac.be!dd Geoffroy de Dorlodot info.ucl.ac.be!fdm Frederic de Mathelin info.ucl.ac.be!gd DETROZ Guy info.ucl.ac.be!spok Delos Olivier info.ucl.ac.be!vl Vincent Lombart info.ucl.ac.be!xb Xavier BOGAERT info.vub.ac.be!pdelmoit Pascal Delmoitie info.vub.ac.be!yjapts Yoeri Apts info.win.tue.nl!dedos4 Boudewijn Wayers inria.fr!Barry.Nuwenhof Barry Nuwenhof ipp-garching.mpg.de!phv Philippe Verplancke irisa.fr!Marc.Bousse Marc Bousse is1.vub.ac.be!hw41652 Dirk van Deun is1.vub.ac.be!tw36298 Kris D'Helft is1.vub.ac.be!tw39298 Benny D'Hespeel is1.vub.ac.be!tw41836 Filip Camerman is1.vub.ac.be!we42556 Sam Goutsmit is1.vub.ac.be!we44481 Joeri Alleweireldt is1.vub.ac.be!we45107 Bert Vermeiren julian.uwo.ca!gerard Gerard Stafleu kit.uni-kl.de!sold Christoph Sold kiwi.uia.ac.be!frans Francois Staes kub.nl!M.Rutte Michel Rutte kurosawa.unice.fr!toitgans TOITGANS Marc-Philippe Lehigh.EDU!bpl2 Paul Lin lei.ucl.ac.be!dupuis Pascal A. Dupuis leland.Stanford.EDU!jchokey James Chokey leland.Stanford.EDU!kgijbels Koen Gijbels let.rug.nl!DEBAETS Antoon de Baets lett.kun.nl!B.Salemans Salemans lima.raynet.com!wdewilde Wim Dewilder luc.ac.be!hbaerten Herbert Baerten macc.wisc.edu!JVTAYLOR Jolanda Vanderwal Taylor MAINE.maine.edu!IO01072 Hugo Volkaert marvin.df.lth.se!cm_lewan C Malte Lewan math.scarolina.edu!sweldens Wim Sweldens mathro.fpms.ac.be!point Nicolas Point maths.nottingham.ac.uk!jfp j preen maths.tcd.ie!ratava Michael McCarthy media.mit.edu!rnewman Ron Newman meinkema.si.hhs.nl!v912382 Frank Maximus mel.dit.csiro.au!Len.Makin Len Makin mema.ucl.ac.be!oz Olivier Zone mess1.zfe.siemens.de!luc Luc De Vos midway.uchicago.edu!sdevloo Steven Devloo minerva.cis.yale.edu!drayer Rebecca Drayer montefiore.ulg.ac.be!baguette Yves Baguette montefiore.ulg.ac.be!lejoly Philippe Lejoly montefiore.ulg.ac.be!leroy Denis Leroy montefiore.ulg.ac.be!nissen Alain Nissen montefiore.ulg.ac.be!pirottin Didier Pirottin montefiore.ulg.ac.be!vecoven Frederic Vecoven MPE.MPE-GARCHING.MPG.DE!BDP Bart De Pontieu mpi-seewiesen.mpg.de!michiels Nico Michiels ms.uky.edu!kherron Kenneth Herron msc.cornell.edu!craigk Craig Keller msc.cornell.edu!rowena Rowena Young msu.oscs.montana.edu!gpm8575 Penny Moog MUSIC.MUS.POLYMTL.CA!SX00 Jean Pascal LIKKSSAS nats.uia.ac.be!slootman Wim Slootmans nbnet.nb.ca!boucherc Claude Boucher nc.titech.ac.jp!vpablo Pablo Vitoria nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu!WWH De Gendt netcom.com!salter David Ian Salter nic.INbe.net!stef Stef Van Dessel nxth04.cern.ch!sevrin Alexandre Sevrin nyx10.cs.du.edu!mchance Michael A. Chance octel.com!hung.le Hung Le omega.gmd.de!jc Juergen Christoffel ori.ucl.ac.be!detienne Claude Detienne PAVO.Concordia.CA!LAJJ_SE LUDO SEGERS pei.arc.cmu.edu!rudi Rudi Stouffs pender.ee.upenn.edu!jan Jan Van der Spiegel petaxp.rug.ac.be!erik Erik Sundermann phe.hitachi-sk.co.jp!ssatoh SHINOBU SATOH philabs.Philips.COM!hjs Hugo Strubbe philabs.Philips.COM!txh Teun Hendriks phoenix.Princeton.EDU!quinn Michael Quinn pilot.njin.net!birchall Shag Aristotelis plato.dca.delaware.be!jh Jo Holvoet pluton.ltas.ulg.ac.be!klapka Igor Klapka po2.rb.unisys.com!Simpson Mark Simpson prime.Stanford.EDU!smeys Peter Smeys qmrelay.mail.cornell.edu!elisabeth_wallhausser-franke1 Elisabeth Wallhau qmrelay.mail.cornell.edu!joyce_reed Joyce Reed risc.uni-linz.ac.at!Carl.van.Geem Carl Van Geem risc.uni-linz.ac.at!Dirk.Van.der.Sanden Dirk Van der Sanden risc.uni-linz.ac.at!Karel.Stokkermans Karel Stokkermans ritz.mordor.com!laurag Laura Gillespie roka.de!wb Wilhelm Buehler ruca.ua.ac.be!leirs Herwig LEIRS ruca.ua.ac.be!tdv Tom De Voeght ruca.ua.ac.be!verhe Aeneas Verhe rug.ac.be!Dimitri.Boone Dimitri Boone rug.ac.be!Frederic.Wille Frederic WILLE rug.ac.be!Nancy.VanGyseghem Nancy Van Gyseghem rug.ac.be!Viviane.Vermeire Viviane Vermeire sanjuan.uvic.ca!cescalan Escalante Carlos sccm.Stanford.EDU!vermeer Sabine Anne Vermeersch sci.kun.nl!kennethg Kenneth van Grinsven sebb.bel.alcatel.be!bvlo Ben Van Loock sfov1.verifone.com!MARLEEN_D1 Marleen Dauw sfs.nphil.uni-tuebingen.de!feldweg Helmut Feldweg shape.nato.int!foster Vince Foster shrsys.hslc.org!stcthelib Noel S. McFerran slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU!jstachow John Stachowiak sri.ucl.ac.be!Debroux Philippe Debroux sri.ucl.ac.be!fontaine Alain Fontaine sri.ucl.ac.be!Kuypers Jean-Pierre Kuypers stc.nato.int!massart Jean-Paul Massart stud.uni-sb.de!dasr Daniel SVEJDA students.wisc.edu!dbackman Donald E. Backman sun2.cern.ch!esaclier Etienne Saclier d'Arquian sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de!a2816ai Stephan De Spiegeleire Symbiosis.AHP.Com!aem a.e.mossberg tele.ucl.ac.be!Schumacher Laurent Schumacher tele.ucl.ac.be!Thiran Jean-Philippe THIRAN Think.COM!sandee Daan Sandee thrush.Stanford.EDU!raymond Raymond De Vre timrowe.demon.co.uk!awake Tim Rowe titan.ucs.umass.edu!smailer Ira Smailer top.cis.syr.edu!wender Elaine Wenderholm trl.OZ.AU!j.guy Jacques B.M. Guy ub4b.eunet.be!evthien Erik VAN THIENEN ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu!V129Q568 Amy Elizabeth Proctor uci.edu!RMSYLTE Ruth Sylte ucsg.edu.ec!jscheer Joris M.J. Scheers uia.ac.be!carpent Nico Carpentier uibk.ac.at!Gregor.Herrmann Gregor Herrmann ulb.ac.be!jhalloy Jose Halloy ULYSSE.cea.fr!CATHE CATHELOTTE Marie-Annick Athesa uniplex.co.uk!aar Tony Rose ve.ch.siemens.be!hk Koen Hillewaert vicor.com!lauwers Chris Lauwers vm1.ulg.ac.be!PIRARD Andri Pirard vm1.ulg.ac.be!SABATIER sabatier vm1.ulg.ac.be!TPMAINT Albert Van de Paar vm1.ulg.ac.be!UZ15111 JEAN MARIE PETIT vms.cis.pitt.edu!RDK1 Robert DeKeyser vnet3.vub.ac.be!fheyligh Francis Heylighen vnet3.vub.ac.be!hw34321 Luc Verhelst vnet3.vub.ac.be!jbollen Johan Bollen vnet3.vub.ac.be!mcoevoet Marc Coevoet vnet3.vub.ac.be!pverhoes Pascal Verhoest vnet3.vub.ac.be!rcsiebel Roland Siebelink vnet3.vub.ac.be!recelabo Yvon Vernaillen vnet3.vub.ac.be!tdobrowi Tadeusz P Dobrowiecki vnet3.vub.ac.be!vriamont Vriamont B vnet3.vub.ac.be!ypunie Yves Punie vub.ac.be!jgpletin Jurgen Pletinckx vub.ac.be!jqdoumen Jan Doumen vub.ac.be!philstas Philippe P.G. Stas vub.ac.be!pvrossem Peter Van Rossem vub.ac.be!waverheu Willy Verheulpen vub.vub.ac.be!dremacle Dirk Remacle WEIZMANN.weizmann.ac.il!CSMOONS Ellen Moons WI.leidenuniv.nl!andries Marc Andries [email protected] Willem Dubelaar ws.rz.tu-bs.de!i1120210 Benedikt Rosenau yvax.byu.edu!SMITHD1 DeShawn Smith zeppo.logica.co.uk!ronny RonnyTimmermans zeus.datasrv.co.il!ophir Ophir Polotsky ZFN.uni-bremen.de!L15D Martin Schr"oder Voted No --------------------------------------------------------------------------- academ01.mty.itesm.mx!al198723 Eugenio Sanchez alpha.acast.nova.edu!grohol John Grohol bcm.tmc.edu!rick Richard Miller bga.com!stainles Dwight Brown camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu!fsspr Sean P. Ryan clark.net!dhalsted David Halsted csugrad.cs.vt.edu!cjackson CHRIS JACKSON digifix.com!sanguish Scott Anguish dina.kvl.dk!lennert Ole Lennert dixie.com!jgd John De Armond ernie.van.forintek.ca!WARD Ward F. Bush flidh102.delcoelect.com!crouchkp Kenneth P. Crouch, Jr globalvillag.com!jrm John R. MacWilliamson let.rug.nl!s0705578 M.Donkers m-net.arbornet.org!emc Evan M Corcoran magic.itg.ti.com!mimi!SEMY Doug Schultz mpi-sb.mpg.de!markus Markus Paul prl.philips.nl!dacosta Paulo da Costa RedBrick.COM!mmt Maxime Taksar scf.usc.edu!stankow George Stankow sms.business.uwo.ca!d4diwan David Diwan telerama.lm.com!peterb Peter Berger Think.COM!cward Christopher Ward UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU!ALBNYVMS.bitnet!HD0022 Chip Dunham YSUB.YSU.EDU!00066033 Gerald Reese YSUB.YSU.EDU!00182722 John Hopkins Abstained --------------------------------------------------------------------------- sdttco.bel.alcatel.be!yd DAOUST Yves Votes in error --------------------------------------------------------------------------- eng.warwick.ac.uk!es070 ! No name given FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ai122 John D. Lawford ! No vote statement in message vpnet.chi.il.us!vagrant ! No name given -- Jan Isley <[email protected]> votes-to: <[email protected]>
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