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Computing ( soc.genealogy.computing )

From [email protected] Fri Oct  1 04:27:40 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: [email protected] (John Pimentel) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,soc.genealogy.misc Subject: RFD: soc.genealogy.computing reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: soc.genealogy.computing-reorg Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:21:14 GMT Lines: 365 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11167 news.groups:328752 soc.genealogy.computing:45782 soc.genealogy.misc:53801                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.misc (renames soc.genealogy.computing)        unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.brotherskeeper         unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.banner-blue            unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.legacy             unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.paf         unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.wholly-genes  This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for reorganization of the world-wide Usenet newsgroup soc.genealogy.computing. This is not a Call For Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.  Newsgroup line: soc.genealogy.computing.banner-blue	Support specific to Banner Blue products. soc.genealogy.computing.brotherskeeper	Support specific to Brothers Keeper. soc.genealogy.computing.legacy	Support specific to Legacy Family Tree. soc.genealogy.computing.misc	Genealogical computing & net resources. soc.genealogy.computing.paf	Support specific to Personal Ancestral File. soc.genealogy.computing.wholly-genes	Support specific to Wholly Genes.  RATIONALE: all groups  The soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup was established to create a discussion area relevant to the use of computer software and hardware as an aid in genealogy research. Almost from the beginning of the newsgroup, there has been a desire that questions also be answered by the vendor representative.  In March 1995, the attached mailing list GENCMP-L ran a policy change straw poll/vote and by a result of 134 to 8 desired to extend beyond the charter of the newsgroup, however the policy change straw poll/vote did not maintain itself very long, nor did the method to identify technical support posts.  The newsgroup has had a continual argument as to whether or not vendor representative in newsgroup responses are permitted by the charter of the newsgroup, which specifically states advertising is not permitted, except an announcement of a product release. While it is agreed that vendor representatives add more knowledge to the newsgroup, providing a place the negative impact on participants can be minimized has been a major on-going problem.  The proposal for the "vendor"/"product" specific newsgroups is to provide a location within the soc.genealogy.computing.* where questions, ideas, bug reports, etc. can be addressed and technical support given by the vendor representative, and other knowledgeable people.  In a four month study (May to Aug 1999) an analysis determined that 43.1% of the total traffic in the newsgroup pertained to technical support style messages posted pertained to questions and answers of seven software programs that are represented by five groups listed above. Two of the "vendor" groups, Banner Blue (a division of The Learning Co.) and Wholly Genes produce more than one genealogical "computing" product, according to their respective web pages, and are proposed as all-encompassing newsgroups rather than the individual software products with the potential of subdividing into newsgroups for each major product that each vendor produces as the needs are warranted.  Soc.genealogy.computing is gated to GENCMP-L by a bi-directional gate through ROOTSWEB.COM. It is presumed that following the passage of the various newsgroups that a mailing list will be gated to the newsgroups to provide free access to those that wish to read the postings in a given newsgroup.  CHARTER: all groups  For the purposes of this charter a "commercial entity" or "vendor" shall be defined as any person, organization or business who generates income or receives services in kind based on products or services provided.  Signatures, which are appended to posts are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable.  Cross-posting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.computing is generally not permitted, such as a cross-post from one "vendor"/"product" specific newsgroup to another similar newsgroup, including to the general purpose computing group.  END CHARTER  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  soc.genealogy.computing.misc            Genealogical computing & net resources  Unmoderated, not archived, and gatewayed to the GENCMP-L mailing list. The GENCMP-L mailing list is archived.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type.  Software:     popular programs, tafel generators, chart utilities, GEDCOM format,     OCR software.  Hardware:     computers, printers, scanners, and laptop/software combinations.  On-line resources:     related gophers, web sites, ftp sites, lists.     library catalogs.     geographic or history servers.     data archives (eg. tafel repositories)  Other computer related resources:     CD based data.     Other electronic forums; Web pages, Chat Areas, BBS's, Fidonet, etc.  Meta-discussions concerning the entire soc.genealogy.* hierarchy.     periodic posting of key FAQs and charters.     how to access the archives of sister groups.     problems with or suggestions for any sister group.  Since computing includes on-line resources, and this certainly includes Usenet, discussion about the soc.genealogy.* groups themselves is considered appropriate. Discussion of computer equipment, systems, software or techniques not directly related to genealogy should be posted to a newsgroup specific to the question. In most cases this would be in the comp.* hirechery.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is considered to be any message containing a product or service by a "vendor" or representative of the "vendor" whether or not a fee is required in exchange for that product or service. The one exception is a one-time announcement of product's and/or service's availablility containing a pointer to the vendor's web page. "For-sale" posts from "vendors" or from individuals are prohibited.  In general, if the poster expects to gain a financial profit from a post either directly or indirectly, the post should go elsewhere, e.g. misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.brotherskeeper  Support specific to Brothers Keeper.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type, with posts being limited to the family of products provided by the vendor. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of their products, etc. Posting in response to questions about the product or family of products by the vendor representative are permitted within the parameters of:  Support:      Answering technical questions of a interest to the readers of the      newsgroup.       Posting of known bugs/defects, their interim work-around, projected      releases containing the fixes (bugs/defects) and enhancements will      be provided.       Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Answered Questions).  Solicitation of information:       Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for      upcoming releases of their product.  Not acceptable:       Comparison of various vendor's products' features, between and by      vendors, is not permitted.       The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this      newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their      mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a      web page or other service.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.banner-blue  Support specific to Banner Blue products.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type, with posts being limited to the family of products provided by the vendor. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of their products, etc. Posting in response to questions about the product or family of products by the vendor representative are permitted within the parameters of:  Support:      Answering technical questions of a interest to the readers of the      newsgroup.       Posting of known bugs/defects, their interim work-around, projected      releases containing the fixes (bugs/defects) and enhancements will      be provided.       Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Answered Questions).  Solicitation of information:       Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for      upcoming releases of their product.  Not acceptable:       Comparison of various vendor's products' features, between and by      vendors, is not permitted.       The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this      newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their      mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a      web page or other service.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.legacy  Support specific to Legacy Family Tree.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type, with posts being limited to the family of products provided by the vendor. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of their products, etc. Posting in response to questions about the product or family of products by the vendor representative are permitted within the parameters of:  Support:      Answering technical questions of a interest to the readers of the      newsgroup.       Posting of known bugs/defects, their interim work-around, projected      releases containing the fixes (bugs/defects) and enhancements will      be provided.       Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Answered Questions).  Solicitation of information:       Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for      upcoming releases of their product.  Not acceptable:       Comparison of various vendor's products' features, between and by      vendors, is not permitted.       The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this      newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their      mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a      web page or other service.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.paf  Support specific to Personal Ancestral File.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type, with posts being limited to the family of products provided by the vendor. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of their products, etc. Posting in response to questions about the product or family of products by the vendor representative are permitted within the parameters of:  Support:      Answering technical questions of a interest to the readers of the      newsgroup.       Posting of known bugs/defects, their interim work-around, projected      releases containing the fixes (bugs/defects) and enhancements will      be provided.       Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Answered Questions).  Solicitation of information:       Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for      upcoming releases of their product.  Not acceptable:       Comparison of various vendor's products' features, between and by      vendors, is not permitted.       The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this      newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their      mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a      web page or other service.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.wholly-genes  Support specific to Wholly Genes products.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type, with posts being limited to the family of products provided by the vendor. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of their products, etc. Posting in response to questions about the product or family of products by the vendor representative are permitted within the parameters of:  Support:      Answering technical questions of a interest to the readers of the      newsgroup.       Posting of known bugs/defects, their interim work-around, projected      releases containing the fixes (bugs/defects) and enhancements will      be provided.       Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Answered Questions).  Solicitation of information:       Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for      upcoming releases of their product.  Not acceptable:       Comparison of various vendor's products' features, between and by      vendors, is not permitted.       The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this      newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their      mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a      web page or other service.  END CHARTER.  PROCEDURE:  This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.  All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.  This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process.   DISTRIBUTION:       news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,       soc.genealogy.misc     POINTER MESSAGE       soc.genealogy.african,        soc.genealogy.australia+nz,       soc.genealogy.benelux,        soc.genealogy.britain,       soc.genealogy.french,         soc.genealogy.german,       soc.genealogy.hispanic,       soc.genealogy.ireland,       soc.genealogy.italian,        soc.genealogy.jewish,       soc.genealogy.marketplace,    soc.genealogy.medieval,       soc.genealogy.methods,        soc.genealogy.nordic,       soc.genealogy.slavic,         soc.genealogy.surnames.britain,       soc.genealogy.surnames.canada,soc.genealogy.surnames.german,       soc.genealogy.surnames.global,soc.genealogy.surnames.ireland,       soc.genealogy.surnames.misc,  soc.genealogy.surnames.usa,       soc.genealogy.west-indies  Proponent: John Pimentel <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Thu Oct 21 02:15:01 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: [email protected] (John Pimentel) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,soc.genealogy.misc Subject: 2nd RFD: soc.genealogy.computing reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: soc.genealogy.computing-reorg Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:05:18 GMT Lines: 221 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11184 news.groups:330762 soc.genealogy.computing:47283 soc.genealogy.misc:54086                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.misc (renames soc.genealogy.computing)         unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for reorganization of the world-wide Usenet newsgroup soc.genealogy.computing. This is not a Call For Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.  Newsgroup line: soc.genealogy.computing.misc	Genealogical computing & net resources. soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support	Genealogical computing Tech Support.  CHANGES from previous RFD:      1) Combined all tech-support groups into one tech-support group.        Changed the rationale to reflect this change.     2) Added to the proposal to have the charter of the original        group changed before the section pertaining to the reorganization        of the original group.  RATIONALE: all groups  The soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup was established to create a discussion area relevant to the use of computer software and hardware as an aid in genealogy research. Almost from the beginning of the newsgroup, there has been a desire that questions also be answered by the vendor representative. In March 1995, the attached mailing list GENCMP-L ran a policy change straw poll/vote and by a result of 134 to 8 desired to extend beyond the charter of the newsgroup, however the policy change straw poll/vote did not maintain itself very long, nor did the method to identify technical support posts. The newsgroup has had a continual argument as to whether or not vendor representative in newsgroup responses are permitted by the charter of the newsgroup, which specifically states advertising is not permitted, except an announcement of a product release. While it is agreed that vendor representatives add more knowledge to the newsgroup, providing a place the negative impact on participants can be minimized has been a major on-going problem.  The proposal for the soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support newsgroups is to provide a location within the soc.genealogy.computing.* where questions, ideas, bug reports, etc. can be addressed and technical support given by the vendor representative, and other knowledgeable people.  In a four month study (May to Aug 1999) an analysis determined that 43.1% of the total traffic in the newsgroup pertained to technical support style messages posted pertained to questions and answers of seven software programs that are represented by five groups listed above. Two of the "vendor" groups, Banner Blue (a division of The Learning Co.) and Wholly Genes produce more than one genealogical "computing" product, according to their respective web pages, and are proposed as all-encompassing newsgroups rather than the individual software products with the potential of subdividing into newsgroups for each major product that each vendor produces as the needs are warranted.  Soc.genealogy.computing is gated to GENCMP-L by a bi-directional gate through ROOTSWEB.COM. It is presumed that following the passage of the division of the soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup that a mailing list will be gated to the soc.genealogy.tech-support newsgroup to provide free access to those that wish to read the postings in the tech support newsgroup.  CHARTER: all groups  Cross-posting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable.  Signatures, which are appended to posts are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  soc.genealogy.computing.misc            Genealogical computing & net resources      Unmoderated, not archived, and gatewayed to the GENCMP-L mailing list.     The GENCMP-L mailing list is archived.      Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type.  Software:     popular programs, tafel generators, chart utilities, GEDCOM format,     OCR software.  Hardware:     computers, printers, scanners, and laptop/software combinations.  On-line resources:     related gophers, web sites, ftp sites, lists.     library catalogs.     geographic or history servers.     data archives (eg. tafel repositories)  Other computer related resources:     CD based data.     Other electronic forums; Web pages, Chat Areas, BBS's, Fidonet, etc.  Meta-discussions concerning the entire soc.genealogy.* hierarchy.     periodic posting of key FAQs and charters.     how to access the archives of sister groups.     problems with or suggestions for any sister group.  Since computing includes on-line resources, and this certainly includes Usenet, discussion about the soc.genealogy.* groups themselves is considered appropriate. Discussion of computer equipment, systems, software or techniques not directly related to genealogy should be posted to a newsgroup specific to the question. In most cases this would be in the comp.* hirechery.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support     Genealogical computing Tech Support  For the purposes of this charter a "vendor" shall be defined as any person, organization or business who generates income or receives services in-kind, i.e. barter, based on genealogical products or services provided.  This newsgroup pertains to Tech Support of computer-based genealogical tools and/or resources. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of new or revised products, etc. Vendors are strongly encouraged to reply to questions about their products. The parameters of this newsgroup are:    Support:       Technical questions and replies on the setup and use of specific      products       Reports of bugs or anomalies of specific software products, requests or      replies concerning interim work-arounds (if available), and projected      release of fixes, as well as the changes in new release. Requests for      enhancements to specific software products       Solicitation of information on specific software products       Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).    Solicitation of information:       Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for      upcoming releases of their (vendor's) products.    Formatting of subject line:       Posters are encouraged to preface posts with a commonly acceptable      abbreviations for the software product, if available, such as:             BK5    Brother's Keeper version 5            FO     Family Origins            FTM    Family Tree Maker            PAF    Personal Ancestral File            TMG    The Master Genealogist            UFT    Ultimate Family Tree       Otherwise, the full name of the product, such as:             LEGACY            REUNION       This list of products is by no means all-inclusive, but is presented      as types in use. Additional formatting should follow these examples.    Not acceptable:       Comparison of various vendor's products' features is not permitted.      Such comparisons should take place in soc.genealogy.computing.misc.       The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this      newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their      mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a      web page or other service.  END CHARTER.  PROCEDURE:  This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.  All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.  This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process.   DISTRIBUTION:        news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,       soc.genealogy.misc     POINTER MESSAGE       soc.genealogy.african,        soc.genealogy.australia+nz,       soc.genealogy.benelux,        soc.genealogy.britain,       soc.genealogy.french,         soc.genealogy.german,       soc.genealogy.hispanic,       soc.genealogy.ireland,       soc.genealogy.italian,        soc.genealogy.jewish,       soc.genealogy.marketplace,    soc.genealogy.medieval,       soc.genealogy.methods,        soc.genealogy.nordic,       soc.genealogy.slavic,         soc.genealogy.surnames.britain,       soc.genealogy.surnames.canada,soc.genealogy.surnames.german,       soc.genealogy.surnames.global,soc.genealogy.surnames.ireland,       soc.genealogy.surnames.misc,  soc.genealogy.surnames.usa,       soc.genealogy.west-indies  Proponent: John Pimentel <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Mon Nov  1 02:57:39 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: [email protected] (John Pimentel) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,soc.genealogy.misc Subject: 3rd RFD: soc.genealogy.computing reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: soc.genealogy.computing-reorg Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 10:56:16 GMT Lines: 245 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11197 news.groups:333156 soc.genealogy.computing:47672 soc.genealogy.misc:54229                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.misc (renames soc.genealogy.computing)         unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for reorganization of the world-wide Usenet newsgroup soc.genealogy.computing. This is not a Call For Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.  CHANGES from previous RFD:      1) Revised Rationale section of the proposal.     2) Revised the charter of the parent newsgroup in this proposal to        contain language covering the potential of a child newsgroup(s).     3) Revised the common charter section on cross-posting, that if the        person has the "Followup-to:" feature and they are cross-posting        that they should use it.  Newsgroup lines: soc.genealogy.computing.misc	Genealogical computing & net resources. soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support	Genealogical computing Tech Support.  RATIONALE: all groups  The soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup was established to create a discussion area relevant to the use of computer software and hardware as an aid in genealogy research. Almost from the beginning of the newsgroup, there has been a desire that questions also be answered by the vendor representative.  In March 1995, the attached mailing list GENCMP-L ran a policy change straw poll/vote and by a result of 134 to 8 desired to extend beyond the charter of the newsgroup, however the policy change straw poll/vote did not maintain itself very long, nor did the method to identify technical support posts.  The newsgroup has had a persistent "debate" as to whether or not vendor representation in newsgroup responses are permitted by the charter of the newsgroup, which specifically states advertising is not permitted, except for an announcement of a product release. While it is agreed that vendor representatives add more knowledge to the newsgroup, providing a place where the negative impact on participants can be minimized has been a major on-going "debate".  Soc.genealogy.computing is gated to GENCMP-L by a bi-directional gate through ROOTSWEB.COM. It is presumed that following the passage of the division of the soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup that a mailing list will be gated to the soc.genealogy.tech-support newsgroup to provide free access to those that wish to read the postings in the tech support newsgroup.  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  Years ago when soc.genealogy.computing came into existence the standard practice in splitting a standing newsgroup was to rename the existing newsgroup to *.misc and propose division(s) of that newsgroup. This provides for the only opportunity in USENET to change the charter - short of moderating the newsgroup - if such a change is needed, and provide the "catch-all" group at each new level, meaning if a topic exists that comes under the heading of soc.genealogy.computing and a newsgroup under this newsgroup does not exist then it is on-topic in this newsgroup. In this case, the language in the current charter states that soc.genealogy.computing is for "discussions of any type". This newsgroup is being proposed to provide for revising the charter to permit child groups, such as the one being proposed in this reorgnazation and to narrow the scope of advertising in this newsgroup.  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  The proposal for the soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support newsgroup is to provide a location within the soc.genealogy.computing.* where questions, ideas, bug reports, etc. can be addressed and vendor representatives are requested to provide "tech support" style responses.  In a four month study (May to Aug 1999) an analysis determined that 43.1% of the total traffic in the newsgroup pertained to questions and answers of seven genealogy software programs. While genealogical software is the main thrust of soc.genealogy.computing.*, from time to time hardware is discussed.  CHARTER: all groups  Cross-posting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable, unless the "Followup-to:", if available, is set to only one newsgroup.  Signatures, which are appended to posts are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  soc.genealogy.computing.misc            Genealogical computing & net resources      Unmoderated, not archived, and gatewayed to the GENCMP-L mailing list.     The GENCMP-L mailing list is archived.      Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type,     which are not addressed by any "specific purpose"/"child" newsgroups     of soc.genealogy.computing.* .  Software:     popular programs, tafel generators, chart utilities, GEDCOM format,     OCR software.  Hardware:     computers, printers, scanners, and laptop/software combinations.  On-line resources:     related gophers, web sites, ftp sites, lists.     library catalogs.     geographic or history servers.     data archives (eg. tafel repositories)  Other computer related resources:     CD based data.     Other electronic forums; Web pages, Chat Areas, BBS's, Fidonet, etc.  Meta-discussions concerning the entire soc.genealogy.* hierarchy.     periodic posting of key FAQs and charters.     how to access the archives of sister groups.     problems with or suggestions for any sister group.  Since computing includes on-line resources, and this certainly includes Usenet, discussion about the soc.genealogy.* groups themselves is considered appropriate. Discussion of computer equipment, systems, software or techniques not directly related to genealogy should be posted to a newsgroup specific to the question. In most cases this would be in the comp.* hirechery.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support     Genealogical computing Tech Support  For the purposes of this charter a "vendor" shall be defined as any person, organization or business who generates income or receives services in-kind, i.e. barter, based on genealogical products or services provided.  This newsgroup pertains to Technical Support of computer-based genealogical tools and/or resources. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of new or revised products, etc. Vendors are strongly encouraged to reply to questions about their products. The parameters of this newsgroup are:    Support:       Technical questions and replies on the setup and use of specific      products       Reports of bugs or anomalies of specific software products, requests or      replies concerning interim work-arounds (if available), and projected      release of fixes, as well as the changes in new release. Requests for      enhancements to specific software products       Solicitation of information on specific software products       Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).    Solicitation of information:       Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for      upcoming releases of their (vendor's) products.    Formatting of subject line:       Posters are encouraged to preface posts with a commonly acceptable      abbreviations for the software product, if available, such as:             BK5    Brother's Keeper version 5            FO     Family Origins            FTM    Family Tree Maker            PAF    Personal Ancestral File            TMG    The Master Genealogist            UFT    Ultimate Family Tree       Otherwise, the full name of the product, such as:             LEGACY            REUNION       This list of products is by no means all-inclusive, but is presented      as types in use. Additional formatting should follow these examples.    Not acceptable:       Comparison of various vendor's products' features is not permitted.      Such comparisons should take place in soc.genealogy.computing.misc.      Posting by a vendor, in response to a question, as to what their product      has for features is permitted, however.       The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this      newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their      mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a      web page or other service.  END CHARTER.  PROCEDURE:  This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.  All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.  This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process.  DISTRIBUTION:        news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,       soc.genealogy.misc     POINTER MESSAGE       soc.genealogy.african,        soc.genealogy.australia+nz,       soc.genealogy.benelux,        soc.genealogy.britain,       soc.genealogy.french,         soc.genealogy.german,       soc.genealogy.hispanic,       soc.genealogy.ireland,       soc.genealogy.italian,        soc.genealogy.jewish,       soc.genealogy.marketplace,    soc.genealogy.medieval,       soc.genealogy.methods,        soc.genealogy.nordic,       soc.genealogy.slavic,         soc.genealogy.surnames.britain,       soc.genealogy.surnames.canada,soc.genealogy.surnames.german,       soc.genealogy.surnames.global,soc.genealogy.surnames.ireland,       soc.genealogy.surnames.misc,  soc.genealogy.surnames.usa,       soc.genealogy.west-indies  Proponent: John Pimentel <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Mon Nov 29 15:59:12 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,soc.genealogy.misc Subject: CFV: soc.genealogy.computing reorganization Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 21 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: soc.genealogy.computing-reorg Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:53:34 GMT Lines: 308 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11231 news.groups:336175 soc.genealogy.computing:48432 soc.genealogy.misc:54605                       FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)             unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.misc         unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups lines: soc.genealogy.computing.misc	Genealogical computing & net resources. soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support	Genealogical computing Tech Support.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 20 Dec 1999.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: John Pimentel <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  The soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup was established to create a discussion area relevant to the use of computer software and hardware as an aid in genealogy research. Almost from the beginning of the newsgroup, there has been a desire that questions also be answered by the vendor representative. In March 1995, the attached mailing list GENCMP-L ran a policy change straw poll/vote and by a result of 134 to 8 desired to extend beyond the charter of the newsgroup, however the policy change straw poll/vote did not maintain itself very long, nor did the method to identify technical support posts. The newsgroup has had a persistent "debate" as to whether or not vendor representation in newsgroup responses are permitted by the charter of the newsgroup, which specifically states advertising is not permitted, except for an announcement of a product release. While it is agreed that vendor representatives add more knowledge to the newsgroup, providing a place where the negative impact on participants can be minimized has been a major on-going "debate". The charter of this group has been modified to reflect the desired change, such that it may stand on its own, in the event a group does not exist for particular topics related to genealogical computing.  Soc.genealogy.computing is gated to GENCMP-L by a bi-directional gate through ROOTSWEB.COM. It is presumed that following the passage of the division of the soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup that a mailing list will be gated to the soc.genealogy.tech-support newsgroup to provide free access to those that wish to read the postings in the tech support newsgroup.  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  The proposal for the soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support newsgroup is to provide a location within the soc.genealogy.computing.* where questions, ideas, bug reports, etc. can be addressed and vendor representatives are encouraged to provide "tech support" style responses.  In a four month study (May to Aug 1999) an analysis determined that 43.1% of the total traffic in the newsgroup pertained to questions and answers of seven genealogy software programs. While genealogical software is the main thrust of soc.genealogy.computing.*, from time to time hardware is discussed.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  Unmoderated, not archived, and gatewayed to the GENCMP-L mailing list. The GENCMP-L mailing list is archived.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type, which are not addressed by any "specific purpose"/"child" newsgroups of soc.genealogy.computing.* .  Software:     popular programs, tafel generators, chart utilities, GEDCOM format,     OCR software.  Hardware:     computers, printers, scanners, and laptop/software combinations.  On-line resources:     related gophers, web sites, ftp sites, lists.     library catalogs.     geographic or history servers.     data archives (eg. tafel repositories)  Other computer related resources:     CD based data.     Other electronic forums; Web pages, Chat Areas, BBS's, Fidonet, etc.  Meta-discussions concerning the entire soc.genealogy.* hierarchy.     periodic posting of key FAQs and charters.     how to access the archives of sister groups.     problems with or suggestions for any sister group.  Since computing includes on-line resources, and this certainly includes Usenet, discussion about the soc.genealogy.* groups themselves is considered appropriate. Discussion of computer equipment, systems, software or techniques not directly related to genealogy should be posted to a newsgroup specific to the question. In most cases this would be in the comp.* hierarchy.  Crossposting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable, unless the "Followup-to:", if available, is set to only one newsgroup.  Signatures, which are appended to posts, are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  For the purposes of this charter a "vendor" shall be defined as any person, organization or business who generates income or receives services in-kind, i.e. barter, based on genealogical products or services provided.  This newsgroup pertains to Technical Support of computer-based genealogical tools and/or resources. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of new or revised products, etc. Vendors are strongly encouraged to post replys to questions about their products. The parameters of this newsgroup are:  Support:     Technical questions and replies on the setup and use of specific    products     Reports of bugs or anomalies of specific software products, requests or    replies concerning interim work-arounds (if available), and projected    release of fixes, as well as the changes in new release. Requests for    enhancements to specific software products     Solicitation of information on specific software products     Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).  Solicitation of information:     Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for    upcoming releases of their (vendor's) products.  Formatting of subject line:     Posters are encouraged to preface posts with a commonly acceptable    abbreviations for the software product, if available, such as:           BK     Brother's Keeper          FO     Family Origins          FTM    Family Tree Maker          PAF    Personal Ancestral File          TMG    The Master Genealogist          UFT    Ultimate Family Tree     Otherwise, the full name of the product, such as:           LEGACY          REUNION     This list of products is by no means all-inclusive, but is presented    as types in use. Additional formatting should follow these examples.  Not acceptable:     Comparison of various vendor's products' features is not permitted.    Such comparisons should take place in soc.genealogy.computing.misc.    Posting by a vendor, in response to a question, as to what their    product has for features is permitted, however.     The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this    newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their    mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a    web page or other service.  Crossposting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable, unless the "Followup-to:", if available, is set to only one newsgroup.  Signatures, which are appended to posts, are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  GATEWAYS: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  Gateway mailing list name: GENCMP-L Submission address: [email protected] Request address: [email protected]  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of this CFV is considered vote fraud.  This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real name or an established Usenet handle.  At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged" address he cannot decipher immediately.  Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: soc.genealogy.computing.misc | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  soc.genealogy.computing.misc [         ]  soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============  DISTRIBUTION:  Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:  soc.genealogy.african soc.genealogy.australia+nz soc.genealogy.benelux soc.genealogy.britain soc.genealogy.french soc.genealogy.german soc.genealogy.hispanic soc.genealogy.ireland soc.genealogy.italian soc.genealogy.jewish soc.genealogy.marketplace soc.genealogy.medieval soc.genealogy.methods soc.genealogy.nordic soc.genealogy.slavic soc.genealogy.surnames.britain soc.genealogy.surnames.canada soc.genealogy.surnames.german soc.genealogy.surnames.global soc.genealogy.surnames.ireland soc.genealogy.surnames.misc soc.genealogy.surnames.usa soc.genealogy.west-indies  This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Mon Jan  3 21:45:06 2000 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,soc.genealogy.misc Subject: CFV: soc.genealogy.computing reorganization Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 26 Jan 2000 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: soc.genealogy.computing-reorg Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 05:42:04 GMT Lines: 308 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11279 news.groups:339391 soc.genealogy.computing:49377 soc.genealogy.misc:55092                       FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.misc (renames soc.genealogy.computing)         unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups lines: soc.genealogy.computing.misc	Genealogical computing & net resources. soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support	Genealogical computing Tech Support.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Jan 2000.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: John Pimentel <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  The soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup was established to create a discussion area relevant to the use of computer software and hardware as an aid in genealogy research. Almost from the beginning of the newsgroup, there has been a desire that questions also be answered by the vendor representative. In March 1995, the attached mailing list GENCMP-L ran a policy change straw poll/vote and by a result of 134 to 8 desired to extend beyond the charter of the newsgroup, however the policy change straw poll/vote did not maintain itself very long, nor did the method to identify technical support posts. The newsgroup has had a persistent "debate" as to whether or not vendor representation in newsgroup responses are permitted by the charter of the newsgroup, which specifically states advertising is not permitted, except for an announcement of a product release. While it is agreed that vendor representatives add more knowledge to the newsgroup, providing a place where the negative impact on participants can be minimized has been a major on-going "debate". The charter of this group has been modified to reflect the desired change, such that it may stand on its own, in the event a group does not exist for particular topics related to genealogical computing.  Soc.genealogy.computing is gated to GENCMP-L by a bi-directional gate through ROOTSWEB.COM. It is presumed that following the passage of the division of the soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup that a mailing list will be gated to the soc.genealogy.tech-support newsgroup to provide free access to those that wish to read the postings in the tech support newsgroup.  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  The proposal for the soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support newsgroup is to provide a location within the soc.genealogy.computing.* where questions, ideas, bug reports, etc. can be addressed and vendor representatives are encouraged to provide "tech support" style responses.  In a four month study (May to Aug 1999) an analysis determined that 43.1% of the total traffic in the newsgroup pertained to questions and answers of seven genealogy software programs. While genealogical software is the main thrust of soc.genealogy.computing.*, from time to time hardware is discussed.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  Unmoderated, not archived, and gatewayed to the GENCMP-L mailing list. The GENCMP-L mailing list is archived.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type, which are not addressed by any "specific purpose"/"child" newsgroups of soc.genealogy.computing.* .  Software:     popular programs, tafel generators, chart utilities, GEDCOM format,     OCR software.  Hardware:     computers, printers, scanners, and laptop/software combinations.  On-line resources:     related gophers, web sites, ftp sites, lists.     library catalogs.     geographic or history servers.     data archives (eg. tafel repositories)  Other computer related resources:     CD based data.     Other electronic forums; Web pages, Chat Areas, BBS's, Fidonet, etc.  Meta-discussions concerning the entire soc.genealogy.* hierarchy.     periodic posting of key FAQs and charters.     how to access the archives of sister groups.     problems with or suggestions for any sister group.  Since computing includes on-line resources, and this certainly includes Usenet, discussion about the soc.genealogy.* groups themselves is considered appropriate. Discussion of computer equipment, systems, software or techniques not directly related to genealogy should be posted to a newsgroup specific to the question. In most cases this would be in the comp.* hierarchy.  Crossposting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable, unless the "Followup-to:", if available, is set to only one newsgroup.  Signatures, which are appended to posts, are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  For the purposes of this charter a "vendor" shall be defined as any person, organization or business who generates income or receives services in-kind, i.e. barter, based on genealogical products or services provided.  This newsgroup pertains to Technical Support of computer-based genealogical tools and/or resources. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of new or revised products, etc. Vendors are strongly encouraged to post replys to questions about their products. The parameters of this newsgroup are:  Support:     Technical questions and replies on the setup and use of specific    products     Reports of bugs or anomalies of specific software products, requests or    replies concerning interim work-arounds (if available), and projected    release of fixes, as well as the changes in new release. Requests for    enhancements to specific software products     Solicitation of information on specific software products     Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).  Solicitation of information:     Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for    upcoming releases of their (vendor's) products.  Formatting of subject line:     Posters are encouraged to preface posts with a commonly acceptable    abbreviations for the software product, if available, such as:           BK     Brother's Keeper          FO     Family Origins          FTM    Family Tree Maker          PAF    Personal Ancestral File          TMG    The Master Genealogist          UFT    Ultimate Family Tree     Otherwise, the full name of the product, such as:           LEGACY          REUNION     This list of products is by no means all-inclusive, but is presented    as types in use. Additional formatting should follow these examples.  Not acceptable:     Comparison of various vendor's products' features is not permitted.    Such comparisons should take place in soc.genealogy.computing.misc.    Posting by a vendor, in response to a question, as to what their    product has for features is permitted, however.     The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this    newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their    mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a    web page or other service.  Crossposting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable, unless the "Followup-to:", if available, is set to only one newsgroup.  Signatures, which are appended to posts, are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  GATEWAYS: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  Gateway mailing list name: GENCMP-L Submission address: [email protected] Request address: [email protected]  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of this CFV is considered vote fraud.  This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real name or an established Usenet handle.  At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged" address he cannot decipher immediately.  Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: soc.genealogy.computing.misc | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  soc.genealogy.computing.misc (renames soc.genealogy.computing) [         ]  soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============  DISTRIBUTION:  Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:  soc.genealogy.african soc.genealogy.australia+nz soc.genealogy.benelux soc.genealogy.britain soc.genealogy.french soc.genealogy.german soc.genealogy.hispanic soc.genealogy.ireland soc.genealogy.italian soc.genealogy.jewish soc.genealogy.marketplace soc.genealogy.medieval soc.genealogy.methods soc.genealogy.nordic soc.genealogy.slavic soc.genealogy.surnames.britain soc.genealogy.surnames.canada soc.genealogy.surnames.german soc.genealogy.surnames.global soc.genealogy.surnames.ireland soc.genealogy.surnames.misc soc.genealogy.surnames.usa soc.genealogy.west-indies  This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Thu Jan 13 12:41:39 2000 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,soc.genealogy.misc Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.genealogy.computing reorganization Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Supersedes: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 26 Jan 2000 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: soc.genealogy.computing-reorg Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:31:43 GMT Lines: 315 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11290 news.groups:340275 soc.genealogy.computing:49788 soc.genealogy.misc:55277                        LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.misc (renames soc.genealogy.computing)         unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups lines: soc.genealogy.computing.misc	Genealogical computing & net resources. soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support	Genealogical computing Tech Support.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Jan 2000.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: John Pimentel <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  The soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup was established to create a discussion area relevant to the use of computer software and hardware as an aid in genealogy research. Almost from the beginning of the newsgroup, there has been a desire that questions also be answered by the vendor representative. In March 1995, the attached mailing list GENCMP-L ran a policy change straw poll/vote and by a result of 134 to 8 desired to extend beyond the charter of the newsgroup, however the policy change straw poll/vote did not maintain itself very long, nor did the method to identify technical support posts. The newsgroup has had a persistent "debate" as to whether or not vendor representation in newsgroup responses are permitted by the charter of the newsgroup, which specifically states advertising is not permitted, except for an announcement of a product release. While it is agreed that vendor representatives add more knowledge to the newsgroup, providing a place where the negative impact on participants can be minimized has been a major on-going "debate". The charter of this group has been modified to reflect the desired change, such that it may stand on its own, in the event a group does not exist for particular topics related to genealogical computing.  Soc.genealogy.computing is gated to GENCMP-L by a bi-directional gate through ROOTSWEB.COM. It is presumed that following the passage of the division of the soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup that a mailing list will be gated to the soc.genealogy.tech-support newsgroup to provide free access to those that wish to read the postings in the tech support newsgroup.  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  The proposal for the soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support newsgroup is to provide a location within the soc.genealogy.computing.* where questions, ideas, bug reports, etc. can be addressed and vendor representatives are encouraged to provide "tech support" style responses.  In a four month study (May to Aug 1999) an analysis determined that 43.1% of the total traffic in the newsgroup pertained to questions and answers of seven genealogy software programs. While genealogical software is the main thrust of soc.genealogy.computing.*, from time to time hardware is discussed.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  Unmoderated, not archived, and gatewayed to the GENCMP-L mailing list. The GENCMP-L mailing list is archived.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type, which are not addressed by any "specific purpose"/"child" newsgroups of soc.genealogy.computing.* .  Software:     popular programs, tafel generators, chart utilities, GEDCOM format,     OCR software.  Hardware:     computers, printers, scanners, and laptop/software combinations.  On-line resources:     related gophers, web sites, ftp sites, lists.     library catalogs.     geographic or history servers.     data archives (eg. tafel repositories)  Other computer related resources:     CD based data.     Other electronic forums; Web pages, Chat Areas, BBS's, Fidonet, etc.  Meta-discussions concerning the entire soc.genealogy.* hierarchy.     periodic posting of key FAQs and charters.     how to access the archives of sister groups.     problems with or suggestions for any sister group.  Since computing includes on-line resources, and this certainly includes Usenet, discussion about the soc.genealogy.* groups themselves is considered appropriate. Discussion of computer equipment, systems, software or techniques not directly related to genealogy should be posted to a newsgroup specific to the question. In most cases this would be in the comp.* hierarchy.  Crossposting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable, unless the "Followup-to:", if available, is set to only one newsgroup.  Signatures, which are appended to posts, are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  For the purposes of this charter a "vendor" shall be defined as any person, organization or business who generates income or receives services in-kind, i.e. barter, based on genealogical products or services provided.  This newsgroup pertains to Technical Support of computer-based genealogical tools and/or resources. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of new or revised products, etc. Vendors are strongly encouraged to post replys to questions about their products. The parameters of this newsgroup are:  Support:     Technical questions and replies on the setup and use of specific    products     Reports of bugs or anomalies of specific software products, requests or    replies concerning interim work-arounds (if available), and projected    release of fixes, as well as the changes in new release. Requests for    enhancements to specific software products     Solicitation of information on specific software products     Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).  Solicitation of information:     Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for    upcoming releases of their (vendor's) products.  Formatting of subject line:     Posters are encouraged to preface posts with a commonly acceptable    abbreviations for the software product, if available, such as:           BK     Brother's Keeper          FO     Family Origins          FTM    Family Tree Maker          PAF    Personal Ancestral File          TMG    The Master Genealogist          UFT    Ultimate Family Tree     Otherwise, the full name of the product, such as:           LEGACY          REUNION     This list of products is by no means all-inclusive, but is presented    as types in use. Additional formatting should follow these examples.  Not acceptable:     Comparison of various vendor's products' features is not permitted.    Such comparisons should take place in soc.genealogy.computing.misc.    Posting by a vendor, in response to a question, as to what their    product has for features is permitted, however.     The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this    newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their    mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a    web page or other service.  Crossposting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable, unless the "Followup-to:", if available, is set to only one newsgroup.  Signatures, which are appended to posts, are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  GATEWAYS: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  Gateway mailing list name: GENCMP-L Submission address: [email protected] Request address: [email protected]  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of this CFV is considered vote fraud.  This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real name or an established Usenet handle.  At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged" address he cannot decipher immediately.  Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: soc.genealogy.computing.misc | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  soc.genealogy.computing.misc (renames soc.genealogy.computing) [         ]  soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============  DISTRIBUTION:  Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:  soc.genealogy.african soc.genealogy.australia+nz soc.genealogy.benelux soc.genealogy.britain soc.genealogy.french soc.genealogy.german soc.genealogy.hispanic soc.genealogy.ireland soc.genealogy.italian soc.genealogy.jewish soc.genealogy.marketplace soc.genealogy.medieval soc.genealogy.methods soc.genealogy.nordic soc.genealogy.slavic soc.genealogy.surnames.britain soc.genealogy.surnames.canada soc.genealogy.surnames.german soc.genealogy.surnames.global soc.genealogy.surnames.ireland soc.genealogy.surnames.misc soc.genealogy.surnames.usa soc.genealogy.west-indies  soc.genealogy.computing reorg Bounce List - Please contact me about your vote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [email protected]                              Michael Kube-McDowell [email protected]                     =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Otto_J=F8rgensen?= [email protected]                     Mike Craig [email protected]                                                 liebel  This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 04:56:32 2000 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.genealogy.computing,soc.genealogy.misc Subject: RESULT: soc.genealogy.computing reorganization fails Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Supersedes: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: soc.genealogy.computing-reorg Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:56:00 GMT Lines: 407 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11312 news.groups:341490 soc.genealogy.computing:50476 soc.genealogy.misc:55495                                  RESULT unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.misc (renames soc.genealogy.computing) fails 65:99   unmoderated group soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support fails 68:90  soc.genealogy.computing reorg results - 167 valid votes   Yes  No  | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group ---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------   65   99 |  No   No |   No | soc.genealogy.computing.misc   68   90 |  No   No |   No | soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support    8 invalid ballots  A five day discussion period follows this announcement.  Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the groups may not be voted on again for six months.  Newsgroups lines: soc.genealogy.computing.misc	Genealogical computing & net resources. soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support	Genealogical computing Tech Support.  The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Jan 2000.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: John Pimentel <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  The soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup was established to create a discussion area relevant to the use of computer software and hardware as an aid in genealogy research. Almost from the beginning of the newsgroup, there has been a desire that questions also be answered by the vendor representative. In March 1995, the attached mailing list GENCMP-L ran a policy change straw poll/vote and by a result of 134 to 8 desired to extend beyond the charter of the newsgroup, however the policy change straw poll/vote did not maintain itself very long, nor did the method to identify technical support posts. The newsgroup has had a persistent "debate" as to whether or not vendor representation in newsgroup responses are permitted by the charter of the newsgroup, which specifically states advertising is not permitted, except for an announcement of a product release. While it is agreed that vendor representatives add more knowledge to the newsgroup, providing a place where the negative impact on participants can be minimized has been a major on-going "debate". The charter of this group has been modified to reflect the desired change, such that it may stand on its own, in the event a group does not exist for particular topics related to genealogical computing.  Soc.genealogy.computing is gated to GENCMP-L by a bi-directional gate through ROOTSWEB.COM. It is presumed that following the passage of the division of the soc.genealogy.computing newsgroup that a mailing list will be gated to the soc.genealogy.tech-support newsgroup to provide free access to those that wish to read the postings in the tech support newsgroup.  RATIONALE: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  The proposal for the soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support newsgroup is to provide a location within the soc.genealogy.computing.* where questions, ideas, bug reports, etc. can be addressed and vendor representatives are encouraged to provide "tech support" style responses.  In a four month study (May to Aug 1999) an analysis determined that 43.1% of the total traffic in the newsgroup pertained to questions and answers of seven genealogy software programs. While genealogical software is the main thrust of soc.genealogy.computing.*, from time to time hardware is discussed.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  Unmoderated, not archived, and gatewayed to the GENCMP-L mailing list. The GENCMP-L mailing list is archived.  Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type, which are not addressed by any "specific purpose"/"child" newsgroups of soc.genealogy.computing.* .  Software:     popular programs, tafel generators, chart utilities, GEDCOM format,     OCR software.  Hardware:     computers, printers, scanners, and laptop/software combinations.  On-line resources:     related gophers, web sites, ftp sites, lists.     library catalogs.     geographic or history servers.     data archives (eg. tafel repositories)  Other computer related resources:     CD based data.     Other electronic forums; Web pages, Chat Areas, BBS's, Fidonet, etc.  Meta-discussions concerning the entire soc.genealogy.* hierarchy.     periodic posting of key FAQs and charters.     how to access the archives of sister groups.     problems with or suggestions for any sister group.  Since computing includes on-line resources, and this certainly includes Usenet, discussion about the soc.genealogy.* groups themselves is considered appropriate. Discussion of computer equipment, systems, software or techniques not directly related to genealogy should be posted to a newsgroup specific to the question. In most cases this would be in the comp.* hierarchy.  Crossposting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable, unless the "Followup-to:", if available, is set to only one newsgroup.  Signatures, which are appended to posts, are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  CHARTER: soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support  For the purposes of this charter a "vendor" shall be defined as any person, organization or business who generates income or receives services in-kind, i.e. barter, based on genealogical products or services provided.  This newsgroup pertains to Technical Support of computer-based genealogical tools and/or resources. Posts may be in the form of questions about the use and setup of the product, solicitation of information, announcement of new or revised products, etc. Vendors are strongly encouraged to post replys to questions about their products. The parameters of this newsgroup are:  Support:     Technical questions and replies on the setup and use of specific    products     Reports of bugs or anomalies of specific software products, requests or    replies concerning interim work-arounds (if available), and projected    release of fixes, as well as the changes in new release. Requests for    enhancements to specific software products     Solicitation of information on specific software products     Vendors are encouraged to post FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).  Solicitation of information:     Providing a list of features, and seeking input on enhancements for    upcoming releases of their (vendor's) products.  Formatting of subject line:     Posters are encouraged to preface posts with a commonly acceptable    abbreviations for the software product, if available, such as:           BK     Brother's Keeper          FO     Family Origins          FTM    Family Tree Maker          PAF    Personal Ancestral File          TMG    The Master Genealogist          UFT    Ultimate Family Tree     Otherwise, the full name of the product, such as:           LEGACY          REUNION     This list of products is by no means all-inclusive, but is presented    as types in use. Additional formatting should follow these examples.  Not acceptable:     Comparison of various vendor's products' features is not permitted.    Such comparisons should take place in soc.genealogy.computing.misc.    Posting by a vendor, in response to a question, as to what their    product has for features is permitted, however.     The vendor is not permitted to attach their mailing list to this    newsgroup, nor provide a gateway to/from this newsgroup and their    mailing nor other resource, example as a chat area, either on a    web page or other service.  Crossposting to other newsgroups within soc.genealogy.* is generally not acceptable, unless the "Followup-to:", if available, is set to only one newsgroup.  Signatures, which are appended to posts, are to be within generally accepted guidelines for Usenet. Generally, a signature should briefly identify the person, and provide a pointer to additional resources, if any, such as a web page. Advertising a product or service in the signature area is generally not acceptable, inclusion of the person's employer is acceptable, however.  An "Advertisement" or "Ad" is limited to be any message offering a product or service where a fee, barter, or exchange of product or service is required, such as a "for-sale"/"for-hire" posts. These posts are not welcome in this newsgroup and are more appropriate in misc.forsale, soc.genealogy.marketplace, or biz.*.  END CHARTER.  GATEWAYS: soc.genealogy.computing.misc  Gateway mailing list name: GENCMP-L Submission address: [email protected] Request address: [email protected]    soc.genealogy.computing-reorg Final Voter list  NOTE:  This is not [to be used as] a mailing list.  The email addresses are posted only to help verify the interest poll.  Thank you.  soc.genealogy.computing reorg Final Voter list                                        soc.genealogy.computing.tech-support ----+            soc.genealogy.computing.misc (renames soc.genealogy.computing) ---+|                                                                              || ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ a.diemt&aon.at                                                 Andreas Diemt YY iwarb&ozemail.com.au                                            I. Warburton YY patrobbo&tig.com.au                                          Cheryl Robinson NN annech&camtech.net.au                                          Anne Chambers NN rjmoody&hotkey.net.au                                      Joy & Roger Moody NN tomp&st.net.au                                                   Tom Perrett NN pblair&pcug.org.au                                                Paul Blair YY heldenlo&direct.ca                                                Denny Lowe YY gmcdonal&ppt.gc.ca                                             Gary McDonald YY heatherf&istar.ca                                           Heather Figueroa NN speirs&chebucto.ns.ca           "Robert J.N. Speirs"  YY trevort&vianet.on.ca                                          Trevor Tymchuk YY yan&storm.ca                                               Yves Bellefeuille NN CraigWyllie&sympatico.ca                                        Craig Wyllie YY bedmonds&cs.ubc.ca                                             Brian Edmonds YA newsman&abac.com                                                 Don Kirkman NN agh3rd&aol.com                                               Andrew Hatchett NN HalHous&aol.com                                              Harold B Houser YY banrblue&best.com                                            Paul Burchfield NN kimdv&best.com                                                  Kim DeVaughn NY stainles&bga.com                                                Dwight Brown NN davidbath&bigfoot.com                                          David E. Bath NN dbroughton&bigfoot.com                                       Derek Broughton YY DavidWWebster&compuserve.com                                 David W Webster NN sydney&cssincorp.com                                           Sydney Harper NN eridani&databasix.com                                                Belinda NN mikel&dosbears.com                                            Michael Lipsie NN fran&ees.eesc.com                                          Dennis J. Francis NN julesd&erols.com                                                Jules Dubois NN mcclenon&erols.com                                              Bob McClenon YY noelsmith&erols.com                                               Noel Smith NN phankins&erols.com                                             Patty Hankins NN singhals&erols.com                                            Cheryl Singhal NN smlucas&famvid.com                                              Steven Lucas YY david&farrar.com                                                David Farrar YY tomking&freewwweb.com                                                tomking NN krlund&garlic.com                                             Kermit R. Lund NN toejam_78&hotmail.com                                         Toemjammn Mann YY jerry_donovan&hp.com                                           Jerry Donovan NN chris&kzim.com                                   Christopher Robin Zimmerman NA wiz&lart.com                                                      Mike Craig YY grichmon&localnet.com                                        George Richmond YY mtaylor&lrim.com                                                 Mark Taylor NN dlh&MetaphaseTech.com                                            David Hintz NN sberlin&metrogourmet.com                                        Steve Berlin NN reidz&mindspring.com                                              Kathi Reid NN vote_keyes2000&mindspring.com                                          Chris YY rozett&boogins.mv.com                                           Bruce Rozett NN olav&viking.mv.com                                           Olav Nieuwejaar NN fran_keeling&my-Deja.com                                     Frances Keeling NN reasonable&my-Deja.com                                        Chuck Anderson YN aahz&netcom.com                                                         Aahz NA nmt1&ix.netcom.com                                             Norris Taylor NN olp1&ix.netcom.com                                                Louise Par NN rbweiss&ix.netcom.com                                       Randell B. Weiss YY kathy&newsreaders.com                                        Kathy I. Morgan NN chriseb&nortelnetworks.com                                    Chris Ebenezer AN dmescher&nortelnetworks.com                                    David Mescher NN squid&panix.com                                                     Yeoh Yiu NN BrianS&pbcomputing.com                                           Brian Stern NN Nick.Tatham&peramon.com                                          Nick Tatham NN jimrtex&pipeline.com                                               Jim Riley N- mathewes&primeline.com                                        D. A. Mathewes NN jcerul&qwksilvr.com                                               John Cerul NN makowiec&nycap.rr.com                                           Joe Makowiec NN mlaird1&san.rr.com                                             Spencer Laird YY kathy&scconsult.com                                               Kathy Cole NN bmailman&sfo.com                                               Brian Mailman NN bendan&sna.com                                                    Dan benDan YY Dmckeon&swcp.com                                                Denis McKeon NN pan&syix.com                                                             Pan NY dougob&the-spa.com                                              Doug O'Brien YY bekelly&travel-net.com                                           Brian Kelly NN pwbarton&nh.ultranet.com                                         Paul Barton NN pimentel&ultranet.com                                          John Pimentel YY Russell.Ballinger&UNISYS.com                               Russell Ballinger NN stclairm&xmission.com                                         Mike St. Clair NN rlhansen&zianet.com                                         Robert L. Hansen YY mfz&gmx.de                                                Marc F. Zimmermann NN Ekkehard.Uthke&gmx.de                                         Ekkehard Uthke YY doherty&german.hu-berlin.de                               Paul David Doherty YY rakow&ifh.de                                                      Paul Rakow YY naddy&mips.rhein-neckar.de                              Christian Weisgerber AN torex&kholdan.snafu.de                                           tobias erle YY jesper&zedlitz.de                                             Jesper Zedlitz YY jer&cs.amherst.edu                                                John Rager NN bhill&uclink4.berkeley.edu                                      Barbara Hill NN wstringf&mail.coin.missouri.edu                        W. Butler Stringfield NN Charles.F.Vardeman.1&nd.edu                           Charles F. Vardeman II YY mgupton&Princeton.EDU                                         Margaret Upton NN bill&Stanford.EDU                                              William Mills YY bpalmer&leland.Stanford.EDU                                     Brian Palmer NN rick&bcm.tmc.edu                                              Richard Miller NY friedman&cs.uiuc.edu                                          H. G. Friedman YY s.phillips&mail.utexas.edu                                      Sue Phillips YY brianj&csd.uwm.edu                                               B. Janowski NN rufinus&mbe.ece.wisc.edu                                           J Rufinus YY rbull&facstaff.wisc.edu                                          Brian Bauer YY fyr+news&nabab.teaser.fr                                    Francois RANCHIN YY ronsmith&lanl.gov                                                  Ron Smith YY spalding&iol.ie                                                Nick Spalding NN s.r.reifschneider&att.net                                 S.R. Reifschneider NN JCKosturko&worldnet.att.net                               Christine Kosturko NN thomas.johnston&worldnet.att.net                             Thomas Johnston NN mhobart&worldnet.att.net                                   Michael A. Hobart NN sanders-hdml&worldnet.att.net                          Harold A. Sanders Jr. NN df&binary.net                                                 Dave Furstenau YY basogard&cedar-rapids.net                                       Brian Sogard YY holman63&chorus.net                                           William Holman NN ekkm&concentric.net                                              Kim Mesaros NN hollys&crosswinds.net                                         Holly Grimmett YY jlpritchard&earthlink.net                                   Jackie Pritchard NN melsonr&earthlink.net                                       Robert G. Melson NN mreinig&earthlink.net                                         Maureen Reinig NN charlieh&ev1.net                                        Charles R. Hoffpauir YY Troldahl&Flashcom.net                                       Eric O. Troldahl NY jmh&gmx.net                                                         Jan Haar YY hewett&gus.net                                               Kevin B. Hewett YY tc&Mcs.Net                                                       Thomas Cuny YY telston&nehp.net                                                  Ted Elston NN kneecap&netnet.net                                               Neal Cappel YY ddmo&netscape.net                                            D. David OBrian YY scheiman&niia.net                                            Linda Scheimann NN jerrys&ns.net                                                    Jerry Smith NN bfrost&nyx.net                                                 Bonnell Frost YY shrao&nyx.net                                                    Shrisha Rao YA gardener&mail.ocis.net                                            Ann Hughes NN justgeo1&oz.net                                                George Elting YY rheil&pacific.net                                             Robert Heiling YY jtboyce&pinn.net                                                 J. T. Boyce NA wakelyn&pinn.net                                                 Tom Wakelyn NN hrnblwr&primary.net                                            Larry Strieby NA allent&realtime.net                                              Allen Tyler NN evert&royal.net                                                 Evert Meulie YY dsrock&shire.net                                                  Doug Srock NN ttw&shore.net                                                 Thomas Wetmore NN chohenste&skyenet.net                                  Charles R. Hohenstein YY dandydon&smith.net                                            Donald J Smith NN jpurser&snet.net                                                 Jeff Purser NN fogazzid&softhome.net                                        Daniele Fogazzi YY peteralf&softhome.net                                        Peter Alfredsen AA marthur&telusplanet.net                                          Mary Arthur YY loliver&tyler.net                                          Lawrence E Oliver NN churchh&usa.net                                             Henry Churchyard NY partos&visi.net                                               Richard Partos NA gooteebob&wnol.net                                             Robert Gootee NN segerius&multiweb.nl                                          Chris Segerius YY John_David_Galt&acm.org                                      John David Galt NY kb5cng&amsat.org                                            R.L. Bo Thompson YY kquinn&CAM.ORG                                                     Ken Quinn NN roncox&CAM.ORG                                                    Ronald Cox YY PaulWolf&CuyCtyEngineers.org                                    Paul S. Wolf NN shatcher&kymtnnet.org                                      Samuel D. Hatcher NN rsmith1&powernet.org                                               Ray Smith NN mjolson&prairienet.org                                        Margaret Olson YY djb&v2000.scream.org                                            Dan Birchall YY seabreez&willapabay.org                                          Joan Koster NN adh&sanger.ac.uk                                                David Harper NN jrnl&bytetype.co.uk                                                John Lowe YY cliff&baughen.demon.co.uk                                      Cliff Baughen NN ed&essery.demon.co.uk                                              Ed Essery NN ian&iharris.demon.co.uk                                           Ian Harris YY big8votes&salterg.demon.co.uk                                   Barry Salter YY pandora&dircon.co.uk                                          Liz Mazonowicz NN rwsh&dircon.co.uk                                               Roger Harris YY john&magpie60.freeserve.co.uk                                   J.E. Heckels NN John.Cramer&das.state.oh.us                                      John Cramer YY  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ myronh&[207.218.192.5]                                            Myron Howard     ! Invalid address salazar&popd.ix.netcom.com                                        Rick Salazar     ! Undeliverable address XXt_taxi&XXhotmail.comXX                                                liebel     ! Invalid address K-Mac&NOSPAMworldnet.att.net                             Michael Kube-McDowell     ! Invalid address jhaywoo&worldnet.att.net                                          John Haywood     ! No votemark in ballot joanarc&netwiz.net                                              Joan Archibald     ! No votemark in ballot otjoerge.NOSPAM&online.no                    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Otto_J=F8rgensen?=     ! Invalid address alan&freewire.co.uk                                                  Alan Vero     ! Undeliverable address: User unknown