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What if ( soc.history.what-if )
 
From [email protected] Mon Feb 13 20:20:26 1995
Status: RO
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Richard Gadsden <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.history.what-if,soc.history,alt.config
Subject: RFD: soc.history.what-if
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 13 Feb 1995 20:02:34 -0500
Organization: The University of Hull, UK
Lines: 72
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: is1.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6307 news.groups:134341 alt.history.what-if:12771 soc.history:45275 alt.config:64140

               Request for Discussion (RFD)

Newsgroup      : soc.history.what-if
Status         : unmoderated
Distribution   : Worldwide
Summary        : Discussion of alternate history - that is
                 "history divergent from our own" to quote
                 the alt.history.what-if FAQ
Proponent      : Richard Gadsden <[email protected]>

This is a formal request for discussion on the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup, soc.history.what-if

This RFD has been posted in accordance with the Guidelines for Newsgroup
Creation. This RFD is being posted to the following relevant newsgroups:

           news.announce.newgroups
           news.groups
           alt.history.what-if
           soc.history
           alt.config

Discussion will take place in news.groups and (probably - I won't be
able to stop it :-)) alt.history.what-if and alt.config


                      CHARTER

The soc.history.what-if newsgroup will be open to discussion of
alternate history.  This is "what-ifs" regarding specific historical
events.

Specifically, but not exclusively:
 + Historical events - what could have happened if they had been different?
 + How could this have happened differently (i.e. discussion of how the
   divergence could have occurred, not of what its consequences would be.)

Note: the following topics are not to be discussed:
 + Revisionism regarding the Holocaust or Turkish/Armenian massacres
  (post to alt.revisionism).  "What if the Holocaust had not happened?"
  is a legitimate question.
 + Future history - "What if the president were assassinated tommorrow?"
 + Alternate history in future worlds - "What if Luke had failed to
   destroy the Death Star?"

                       RATIONALE

alt.history.what-if is a thriving newsgroup. It has a reasonable
posting level, a well-maintained FAQ (take a bow, Robert Schmunk), and
a very good signal-to-noise level (I haven't seen a flame yet).

But it's on alt.*.  Lots of people can't get alt.*.  So I propose we
move it to soc.*

Also, there are several other soc.history.* groups, which it will fit
in well alongside.

Finally, the users of alt.history.what-if want it to move - and isn't
that reason enough for anyone?

alt.history.what-if will be removed, in so far as it is possible to
remove an alt.* group, if this proposal is approved.

                       PROCEDURE

After a discussion period of 31 days, if there are no overwhelming
objections to the formation of the group, a CFV will be posted to the
same groups as this RFD.  The voting period will be as outlined in the
guidelines (21-31 days).  If the vote passes by a majority of 2/3, and
a majority of 100 votes, then the group will be created.
-- 
Richard Gadsden                  [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Apr 25 13:18:25 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Brenda J. Roder)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.history.what-if,soc.history,bit.listserv.history
Subject: CFV: soc.history.what-if
Followup-To: poster
Date: 24 Apr 1995 19:10:04 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 72
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 16 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6693 news.groups:146176 alt.history.what-if:16131 soc.history:48662 bit.listserv.history:21274

                          FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                    unmoderated group soc.history.what-if

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.what-if	Alternate history.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 15 May 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact [email protected]  For questions about the
proposed group contact Richard Gadsden<[email protected]>.


CHARTER

The soc.history.what-if newsgroup will be open to discussion of alternate
history.  This is "what-ifs" regarding specific historical events.

Specifically, but not exclusively:
 + Historical events - what could have happened if they had been different?
 + How could this have happened differently (i.e. discussion of how the
   divergence could have occurred, not of what its consequences would be.)

Note: the following topics are not to be discussed:
 + Revisionism regarding the Holocaust or Turkish/Armenian massacres
   (post to alt.revisionism). "What if the Holocaust had not happened?"
   is a legitimate question
 + Future history - "What if the President were assassinated tomorrow?"
 + Alternate history in fictional worlds - "What if Luke had failed to
   destroy the Death Star?"


RATIONALE

alt.history.what-if is a thriving newsgroup. It has a reasonable posting
level, a well-maintained FAQ (thank you, Robert Schmunk), and a good
signal-to-noise level (no ad hominems, only a few flames before a recent
flamewar that seems to have stayed in one thread, and is dying).

But it's on alt.*. Lots of people can't get alt.*. (Lots of .ac.uk sites
for a start). So I propose we move it to soc.*

There are several other soc.history.* groups, and it will fit well into
that hierarchy.

If this CFV passes, a proposal will be made for alt.history.what-if to be
rmgrouped. I appreciate that alt.* groups never truly die, but I hope
that it will disappear from most sites.


HOW TO VOTE

Send MAIL to:   [email protected]
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.

Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
      I vote YES on soc.history.what-if
      I vote NO on soc.history.what-if

You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.

The second CFV will include a list of those whose email acknowledgement
bounced.
-- 
Brenda J. Roder ([email protected])

From [email protected] Wed May  3 19:18:48 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Brenda J. Roder)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.history.what-if,soc.history,bit.listserv.history
Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.history.what-if
Followup-To: poster
Date: 3 May 1995 15:42:59 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 73
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 16 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>  <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6764 news.groups:147436 alt.history.what-if:16672 soc.history:49319 bit.listserv.history:21347

                          LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                    unmoderated group soc.history.what-if

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.what-if	Alternate history.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 15 May 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact [email protected]  For questions about the
proposed group contact Richard Gadsden<[email protected]>.


CHARTER

The soc.history.what-if newsgroup will be open to discussion of alternate
history.  This is "what-ifs" regarding specific historical events.

Specifically, but not exclusively:
 + Historical events - what could have happened if they had been different?
 + How could this have happened differently (i.e. discussion of how the
   divergence could have occurred, not of what its consequences would be.)

Note: the following topics are not to be discussed:
 + Revisionism regarding the Holocaust or Turkish/Armenian massacres
   (post to alt.revisionism). "What if the Holocaust had not happened?"
   is a legitimate question
 + Future history - "What if the President were assassinated tomorrow?"
 + Alternate history in fictional worlds - "What if Luke had failed to
   destroy the Death Star?"


RATIONALE

alt.history.what-if is a thriving newsgroup. It has a reasonable posting
level, a well-maintained FAQ (thank you, Robert Schmunk), and a good
signal-to-noise level (no ad hominems, only a few flames before a recent
flamewar that seems to have stayed in one thread, and is dying).

But it's on alt.*. Lots of people can't get alt.*. (Lots of .ac.uk sites
for a start). So I propose we move it to soc.*

There are several other soc.history.* groups, and it will fit well into
that hierarchy.

If this CFV passes, a proposal will be made for alt.history.what-if to be
rmgrouped. I appreciate that alt.* groups never truly die, but I hope
that it will disappear from most sites.


HOW TO VOTE

Send MAIL to:   [email protected]
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.

Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
      I vote YES on soc.history.what-if
      I vote NO on soc.history.what-if

You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.

soc.history.what-if Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                                     Ryan Waldron
--
Brenda J. Roder ([email protected])

From [email protected] Tue May 16 19:37:37 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Brenda J. Roder)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.history.what-if,soc.history,bit.listserv.history
Subject: RESULT: soc.history.what-if passes 166:45
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 16 May 1995 15:18:51 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 296
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>  <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.history.what-if
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6863 news.groups:149794 alt.history.what-if:17406 soc.history:50056 bit.listserv.history:21462

                                    RESULT
             unmoderated group soc.history.what-if passes 166:45

There were 166 YES votes and 45 NO votes, for a total of 211 valid votes.
There were 3 abstains and 4 invalid ballots.

For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO)
votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.  If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter.

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.what-if		Alternate history.

Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 15 May 1995.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.

Vote-taker's address:           [email protected] (Brenda J. Roder)
Group proponent's address:      [email protected]
				(Richard Gadsden)


CHARTER

The soc.history.what-if newsgroup will be open to discussion of alternate
history.  This is "what-ifs" regarding specific historical events.

Specifically, but not exclusively:
 + Historical events - what could have happened if they had been different?
 + How could this have happened differently (i.e. discussion of how the
   divergence could have occurred, not of what its consequences would be.)

Note: the following topics are not to be discussed:
 + Revisionism regarding the Holocaust or Turkish/Armenian massacres
   (post to alt.revisionism). "What if the Holocaust had not happened?"
   is a legitimate question
 + Future history - "What if the President were assassinated tomorrow?"
 + Alternate history in fictional worlds - "What if Luke had failed to
   destroy the Death Star?"


VOTE ACK

***** Please don't use this voting list to generate a mailing list (neither the
yes or no votes) -- voters are not necessarily interested in the topic *****

Note from the Votetaker:

There are possibly 3 duplicates in the Yes votes.  These have the same actual
name but different email addresses.  Since it made no difference to the final
result of the vote, I left these in rather than possibly discarding someone's
vote who happened to share the same name with some other voter.  If these are
the same person, they should note that the rules allow one vote per *person*,
not account.  The names involved were:  Marco De Innocentis and Adam Bentley.

soc.history.what-if Final Vote Ack

Voted Yes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                    Heather Keesecker
[email protected]                                     Duncan MacGregor
[email protected]                                     Mean Green Dancing Machine
[email protected]                                          Aaron R. Priven
[email protected]                                              Adam Bentley
[email protected]                                           Adam Bentley
[email protected]                                              Aaron Thomas
[email protected]
[email protected]                                     James A. McQuinn
[email protected]                                        Alain Bergeron
[email protected]                                           Alan Lothian
[email protected]                                            Alan R Williams
[email protected]                                       Iain D. Bowen
[email protected]                               Joseph Bernard Cadotte
[email protected]                                       ANDREW JEPSON
[email protected]                                            Angus Johnston
[email protected]                                         Randall M. MacDonald
[email protected]                                             Luiz Claudio Duarte
[email protected]                                         Ken Arromdee
[email protected]                                          Arwel Parry
[email protected]                                    Phillip McGregor
[email protected]                                                   Grey Death
[email protected]                                                 Bruce Lewis
[email protected]                                     Jack Bennetto
[email protected]
[email protected]                                         Bradley M. Kuhn
[email protected]                                      John W. Braue, III
[email protected]                                        Donald Tucker
[email protected]                                                   Captain Button
[email protected]                                Richard Gadsden
[email protected]                                        C.S.Johnson
[email protected]                                                Mark Cain
[email protected]                                                      John Tudek
[email protected]                                                  Carl Rhinehart
[email protected]                             Christopher B. Stone
[email protected]                                                         CHOAM
[email protected]                                  Christopher Ambler
[email protected]                                           Drew Clark
[email protected]                                         Chris Stamper
[email protected]                                Antonio Collins
[email protected]                                 Francesco Colonna
[email protected]                                                David Dailey
[email protected]                                                      Don Croyle
[email protected]                                                 Kevin Sullivan
[email protected]                                                     Dale Huckeby
[email protected]                                             Dan Rothschild
[email protected]                                                   Dan Kiselman
[email protected]                                         Dean C. Gahlon
[email protected]                                              Mark DeWitt
[email protected]                                              David Empey
[email protected]                                                 David Harden
[email protected]                                            Daniel M. Silevitch
[email protected]                                    David Legge
[email protected]                                         Daniel S Goodman
[email protected]                                         Evelyn C Leeper
[email protected]                                EDUARDO ROMERO
[email protected]                                                Eric Garbos
[email protected]                                                    Andrew Toppan
embransc@turing.uncg.edu                                   Edward M. Branscomb
ewl@panix.com                                                   Emery Lapinski
fluidd@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca                                Sean Vanderfluit
fraser@jtec.com.au                                               Fraser Wilson
gberigan@cse.unl.edu                                              Greg Berigan
gerdw@cougar.vut.edu.au                                           David Gerard
gibbins@cpd.ntc.nokia.com                                         Nick Gibbins
glyn@ntrust.org.uk                                                Glyn Simpson
hjalme@ucdavis.edu
hyrcj@csv.warwick.ac.uk                                            Mike Powell
hyusm@csv.warwick.ac.uk                                         Mr T P Sorrell
I.Jones@axion.bt.co.uk
ilonakd@rci.ripco.com                                      Ilona Koren-Deutsch
irina@rempt.xs4all.nl                                    Irina Rempt-Drijfhout
j-grout@uiuc.edu                                                 John R. Grout
J.Higgins@zds.com                                                  Jim Higgins
jadmire@netcom.com                                            Joseph A. Admire
jasonkim@husc.harvard.edu
jd10@ukc.ac.uk
jdfalk@cais.cais.com                                                 J.D. Falk
Jim_Mann@transarc.com
jjd@ironwood.cray.com                                            Jeff Drummond
jmbrandt@sils.umich.edu                                            John Brandt
Jmeddaug@deathstar.cris.com
joc@netaxs.com
jonboy@io.org                                                           Jonboy
Joyce.Oshyer@StromloHS.act.edu.au                                 Joyce Oshyer
jrbauer@iglou.com                                          Joseph R. Bauer Iii
justina@PrimeNet.Com                                          Justin Armstrong
jvarty@acs.ucalgary.ca
kate_monteiro@microbilt.com                                      Kate Monteiro
Kedd@aol.com
kerrinp@byron.apana.org.au                                              K Pine
list-votes@dream.hb.north.de                                  Martin Schroeder
M.T.Morton@liverpool.ac.uk                                      Mr M.T. Morton
margm@wln.com
marsden@freenet.scri.fsu.edu                                    George Marsden
marshall@dcs1.uwaterloo.ca                                  Jim Marshall - DCS
matt@perutz.salk.edu                                  Matthew Bowen Harrington
matt@ukonline.co.uk                                               Matt Kelland
mazulec@charlie.acc.iit.edu                                         Lech Mazur
MBAUSER@kentvm.kent.edu                                         Michael Bauser
MC5975@mclink.it                                           Marco De Innocentis
mcgregoa@Cognos.COM                                            Alayne McGregor
md11@unix.york.ac.uk                                       Marco de Innocentis
mfarah@ing.puc.cl                                              Miguel Farah F.
mhatz@raven.phs.com                                                  Mike Hatz
MHB28@aol.com
MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET                                             Marty Helgesen
moss@bastille.cchem.berkeley.edu                                 David Maurice
Mytan@prometheus.hol.gr                                      Antonis Mytilinis
N.Whyte@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK                                           n.whyte
ndallen@io.org                                                     Nigel Allen
neume001@maroon.tc.umn.edu                                    Craig J Neumeier
nhendrix@vesta.unm.edu                                          Nathan Hendrix
nhhs@fred.net                                        N. Hagerstown High School
noel@cc.gatech.edu                                                 Noel Rappin
otto@vaxb.acs.unt.edu                   M. `Making history by voting YES' Otto
P.Metcalfe@csc.canterbury.ac.nz                                 Peter Metcalfe
pat@cooky.demon.co.uk                                             Pat McMurray
patgavin@minerva.cis.yale.edu                                    Patrick Gavin
PEACOCT6503@uni.edu                                                   Greywolf
Per.Mathisen@pr.uninett.no                                        Per Mathisen
peterc@mail.msen.com                                            Peter Campbell
philip@storcomp.demon.co.uk                                          Phil Hunt
pier1@rpi.edu                                                         W.Pierce
pierre@shell.Portal.COM                                        Pierre Uszynski
pk@io.org                                                        Peter Klungel
pl6a4bnb@swansea.ac.uk                                             Nick Barlow
pmichals@csn.org                                                  Paul Michals
point@mathro.fpms.ac.be                                          Nicolas Point
randrews@cas.org                                                  Brad Andrews
rbs@panix.com                                                   Robert Schmunk
rdouglas@edge.net                                                 Rick Douglas
rick@bcm.tmc.edu                                             Richard H. Miller
rmsylte@uci.edu                                                  Ruth M. Sylte
robertjm@hooked.net                                            Robert Marshall
roman@scs.unr.edu                                             Roman Zimmermann
ronp@netcom.com                                                   Ron Peterson
Roshne@faerun.sojourn.com                                          Rod Shelton
rsmith@uoguelph.ca
rufinus@mbe.ece.wisc.edu                                       Jeffrey Rufinus
rupley@ecn.purdue.edu                                              Jeff Rupley
s3216753@techunix.technion.ac.il                                    Carny Ofir
sburns@enet.colmicrosys.com                                        Scott Burns
schulz@informatik.tu-muenchen.de                                Stephan Schulz
sdquirre@netcom.com                                               David Walker
segerge@ss2.sews.wpafb.af.mil                                 GAYLORD E. SEGER
sempco!dklaus@uustar.starnet.net                             David K. M. Klaus
simon@darkmere.midland.co.nz                                       Simon Lyall
SMR4615@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU                                      Mike Richey
steinn@ast.cam.ac.uk                                         Steinn Sigurdsson
stella@netcom.com                                              Steven J. Tella
steveg@uk.gdscorp.com           Steve Gilham (Entropy requires no maintenance)
steverogers@thebeast.demon.co.uk                                  Steve Rogers
thmic@chevron.com                                                   Mick Hanou
tjisakso@packer.aud.alcatel.com                                    Tim Isakson
toresk@ifi.uio.no                                        Tore Christian Skobba
trainman@nwu.edu                                                 Jim Ellwanger
tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu                                   Tracy Ratcliff
tsbrueni@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us                                Timothy Bruening
vernon@cs.mun.ca                                           Vernon Bruce Fisher
vlshanby@reading.ac.uk                                               Pat Hanby
vmenkov@cs.indiana.edu                                         Vladimir Menkov
will@MO.NET                                                             Stimpy
willw@ozemail.com.au                                               BILL WILSON
wolf@sun.skylink.it                                        Marco De Innocentis
ycl6@columbia.edu                                                 Yeechang Lee

Voted No
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3arb@qlink.queensu.ca                                                     Andy
andrewh@earlham.edu                             Andrew Hagen, symbolic analyst
bc@gate.net
billones@access.digex.net                                      Jeremy Billones
burt+@CMU.EDU                                                   Burt N Holzman
cbaker@wam.umd.edu                                            C. Douglas Baker
cward@Think.COM                                               Christopher Ward
david@aruba.ccit.arizona.edu                                             David
dfishe01@interserv.com
EDRN@dlep1.itg.ti.com                                                 Lynnette
farrow@wapa.gov                                                J. Scott Farrow
gabe@angus.mystery.com                                              Gabe Helou
gt0670e@prism.gatech.edu                                Brennan Tennesen Price
harmanr@et.byu.edu                                         Robert Craig Harman
hitech@PrimeNet.Com                                            Barett McGavock
jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU                             James Alexander Chokey
jcmurphy@smurfland.cit.buffalo.edu                                 Jeff Murphy
jgeorge@nbi.com                                                     Joe George
jrm@globalvillag.com                                     John R. MacWilliamson
juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu                                        Jeff Uphoff
lepslog@j51.com                                                  Louis Epstein
mapcky@uxmail.ust.hk                                               PATRICK YIP
matajame@cwis.isu.edu                                           Zeke M. Towson
matt@mac3a204.resnet.iup.edu                                    Matt Schnierle
nick@inferno.fc.hp.com                                          Nick Ingegneri
pen7cmc@cabell.vcu.edu                                    Charles M. Castevens
ptbast@owl.WPI.EDU                                                Pete Bastien
radrayer@panix.com                                              Rebecca Drayer
reichera@clark.net                        Alan A. Reichert - Logicon -  Reston
rew@uel.co.uk                                                     Ryan Waldron
roberto@hsc.fr.net                                             Ollivier Robert
roge8810@utdallas.edu                                           Scott T Rogers
rrs0061@ibm.net
shields@tembel.org                                             Michael Shields
smarry@turing.toronto.edu                                         Smarasderagd
stainles@bga.com                                                  Dwight Brown
STEERSDD@MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU                                            Steersy
stu@valinor.mythical.com                                          Stu Labovitz
techint@winternet.com                            Technical Intelligence-MN-USA
tegtmeie@panix.com                                           John R. Tegtmeier
tgm@netcom.com                                            Thomas G. McWilliams
twpierce@midway.uchicago.edu                                        Tim Pierce
vp@fct.unl.pt
widenius@cc.helsinki.fi                                         Risto Widenius
yu104254@YorkU.CA                                                Joshua Heuman

Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
crouchkp@flidh101.delcoelect.com                              Kenneth P Crouch
mmt@RedBrick.COM                                          M Mike Taksar KC6ZPS
sjsmith@cs.UMD.EDU                                        Stephen Joseph Smith


Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Capts@aol.com
   ! No vote statement in message
dfuller@mc.edu                                                   Dan J. Fuller
   ! Conflicting votes
ron@scott.net                                                        ron jacob
   ! No vote statement in message
wayne@norden1.com                                             wayne williamson
   ! Conflicting votes
-- 
Brenda J. Roder (roder@brenda.jpl.nasa.gov)

 
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