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What if ( soc.history.what-if )
 
From [email protected] Mon Feb 13 20:20:26 1995
Status: RO
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Richard Gadsden <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.history.what-if,soc.history,alt.config
Subject: RFD: soc.history.what-if
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 13 Feb 1995 20:02:34 -0500
Organization: The University of Hull, UK
Lines: 72
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: is1.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6307 news.groups:134341 alt.history.what-if:12771 soc.history:45275 alt.config:64140

               Request for Discussion (RFD)

Newsgroup      : soc.history.what-if
Status         : unmoderated
Distribution   : Worldwide
Summary        : Discussion of alternate history - that is
                 "history divergent from our own" to quote
                 the alt.history.what-if FAQ
Proponent      : Richard Gadsden <[email protected]>

This is a formal request for discussion on the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup, soc.history.what-if

This RFD has been posted in accordance with the Guidelines for Newsgroup
Creation. This RFD is being posted to the following relevant newsgroups:

           news.announce.newgroups
           news.groups
           alt.history.what-if
           soc.history
           alt.config

Discussion will take place in news.groups and (probably - I won't be
able to stop it :-)) alt.history.what-if and alt.config


                      CHARTER

The soc.history.what-if newsgroup will be open to discussion of
alternate history.  This is "what-ifs" regarding specific historical
events.

Specifically, but not exclusively:
 + Historical events - what could have happened if they had been different?
 + How could this have happened differently (i.e. discussion of how the
   divergence could have occurred, not of what its consequences would be.)

Note: the following topics are not to be discussed:
 + Revisionism regarding the Holocaust or Turkish/Armenian massacres
  (post to alt.revisionism).  "What if the Holocaust had not happened?"
  is a legitimate question.
 + Future history - "What if the president were assassinated tommorrow?"
 + Alternate history in future worlds - "What if Luke had failed to
   destroy the Death Star?"

                       RATIONALE

alt.history.what-if is a thriving newsgroup. It has a reasonable
posting level, a well-maintained FAQ (take a bow, Robert Schmunk), and
a very good signal-to-noise level (I haven't seen a flame yet).

But it's on alt.*.  Lots of people can't get alt.*.  So I propose we
move it to soc.*

Also, there are several other soc.history.* groups, which it will fit
in well alongside.

Finally, the users of alt.history.what-if want it to move - and isn't
that reason enough for anyone?

alt.history.what-if will be removed, in so far as it is possible to
remove an alt.* group, if this proposal is approved.

                       PROCEDURE

After a discussion period of 31 days, if there are no overwhelming
objections to the formation of the group, a CFV will be posted to the
same groups as this RFD.  The voting period will be as outlined in the
guidelines (21-31 days).  If the vote passes by a majority of 2/3, and
a majority of 100 votes, then the group will be created.
-- 
Richard Gadsden                  [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Apr 25 13:18:25 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Brenda J. Roder)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.history.what-if,soc.history,bit.listserv.history
Subject: CFV: soc.history.what-if
Followup-To: poster
Date: 24 Apr 1995 19:10:04 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 72
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 16 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6693 news.groups:146176 alt.history.what-if:16131 soc.history:48662 bit.listserv.history:21274

                          FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                    unmoderated group soc.history.what-if

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.what-if	Alternate history.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 15 May 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact [email protected]  For questions about the
proposed group contact Richard Gadsden<[email protected]>.


CHARTER

The soc.history.what-if newsgroup will be open to discussion of alternate
history.  This is "what-ifs" regarding specific historical events.

Specifically, but not exclusively:
 + Historical events - what could have happened if they had been different?
 + How could this have happened differently (i.e. discussion of how the
   divergence could have occurred, not of what its consequences would be.)

Note: the following topics are not to be discussed:
 + Revisionism regarding the Holocaust or Turkish/Armenian massacres
   (post to alt.revisionism). "What if the Holocaust had not happened?"
   is a legitimate question
 + Future history - "What if the President were assassinated tomorrow?"
 + Alternate history in fictional worlds - "What if Luke had failed to
   destroy the Death Star?"


RATIONALE

alt.history.what-if is a thriving newsgroup. It has a reasonable posting
level, a well-maintained FAQ (thank you, Robert Schmunk), and a good
signal-to-noise level (no ad hominems, only a few flames before a recent
flamewar that seems to have stayed in one thread, and is dying).

But it's on alt.*. Lots of people can't get alt.*. (Lots of .ac.uk sites
for a start). So I propose we move it to soc.*

There are several other soc.history.* groups, and it will fit well into
that hierarchy.

If this CFV passes, a proposal will be made for alt.history.what-if to be
rmgrouped. I appreciate that alt.* groups never truly die, but I hope
that it will disappear from most sites.


HOW TO VOTE

Send MAIL to:   [email protected]
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.

Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
      I vote YES on soc.history.what-if
      I vote NO on soc.history.what-if

You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.

The second CFV will include a list of those whose email acknowledgement
bounced.
-- 
Brenda J. Roder ([email protected])

From [email protected] Wed May  3 19:18:48 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Brenda J. Roder)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.history.what-if,soc.history,bit.listserv.history
Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.history.what-if
Followup-To: poster
Date: 3 May 1995 15:42:59 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 73
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 16 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>  <[email protected]et.uu.net>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6764 news.groups:147436 alt.history.what-if:16672 soc.history:49319 bit.listserv.history:21347

                          LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                    unmoderated group soc.history.what-if

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.what-if	Alternate history.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 15 May 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact [email protected]  For questions about the
proposed group contact Richard Gadsden<[email protected]>.


CHARTER

The soc.history.what-if newsgroup will be open to discussion of alternate
history.  This is "what-ifs" regarding specific historical events.

Specifically, but not exclusively:
 + Historical events - what could have happened if they had been different?
 + How could this have happened differently (i.e. discussion of how the
   divergence could have occurred, not of what its consequences would be.)

Note: the following topics are not to be discussed:
 + Revisionism regarding the Holocaust or Turkish/Armenian massacres
   (post to alt.revisionism). "What if the Holocaust had not happened?"
   is a legitimate question
 + Future history - "What if the President were assassinated tomorrow?"
 + Alternate history in fictional worlds - "What if Luke had failed to
   destroy the Death Star?"


RATIONALE

alt.history.what-if is a thriving newsgroup. It has a reasonable posting
level, a well-maintained FAQ (thank you, Robert Schmunk), and a good
signal-to-noise level (no ad hominems, only a few flames before a recent
flamewar that seems to have stayed in one thread, and is dying).

But it's on alt.*. Lots of people can't get alt.*. (Lots of .ac.uk sites
for a start). So I propose we move it to soc.*

There are several other soc.history.* groups, and it will fit well into
that hierarchy.

If this CFV passes, a proposal will be made for alt.history.what-if to be
rmgrouped. I appreciate that alt.* groups never truly die, but I hope
that it will disappear from most sites.


HOW TO VOTE

Send MAIL to:   [email protected]
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.

Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
      I vote YES on soc.history.what-if
      I vote NO on soc.history.what-if

You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.

soc.history.what-if Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                                     Ryan Waldron
--
Brenda J. Roder ([email protected])

From [email protected] Tue May 16 19:37:37 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Brenda J. Roder)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.history.what-if,soc.history,bit.listserv.history
Subject: RESULT: soc.history.what-if passes 166:45
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 16 May 1995 15:18:51 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 296
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>  <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.history.what-if
Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6863 news.groups:149794 alt.history.what-if:17406 soc.history:50056 bit.listserv.history:21462

                                    RESULT
             unmoderated group soc.history.what-if passes 166:45

There were 166 YES votes and 45 NO votes, for a total of 211 valid votes.
There were 3 abstains and 4 invalid ballots.

For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO)
votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.  If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter.

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.what-if		Alternate history.

Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 15 May 1995.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.

Vote-taker's address:           [email protected] (Brenda J. Roder)
Group proponent's address:      [email protected]
				(Richard Gadsden)


CHARTER

The soc.history.what-if newsgroup will be open to discussion of alternate
history.  This is "what-ifs" regarding specific historical events.

Specifically, but not exclusively:
 + Historical events - what could have happened if they had been different?
 + How could this have happened differently (i.e. discussion of how the
   divergence could have occurred, not of what its consequences would be.)

Note: the following topics are not to be discussed:
 + Revisionism regarding the Holocaust or Turkish/Armenian massacres
   (post to alt.revisionism). "What if the Holocaust had not happened?"
   is a legitimate question
 + Future history - "What if the President were assassinated tomorrow?"
 + Alternate history in fictional worlds - "What if Luke had failed to
   destroy the Death Star?"


VOTE ACK

***** Please don't use this voting list to generate a mailing list (neither the
yes or no votes) -- voters are not necessarily interested in the topic *****

Note from the Votetaker:

There are possibly 3 duplicates in the Yes votes.  These have the same actual
name but different email addresses.  Since it made no difference to the final
result of the vote, I left these in rather than possibly discarding someone's
vote who happened to share the same name with some other voter.  If these are
the same person, they should note that the rules allow one vote per *person*,
not account.  The names involved were:  Marco De Innocentis and Adam Bentley.

soc.history.what-if Final Vote Ack

Voted Yes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                    Heather Keesecker
[email protected]                                     Duncan MacGregor
[email protected]                                     Mean Green Dancing Machine
[email protected]                                          Aaron R. Priven
[email protected]                                              Adam Bentley
[email protected]                                           Adam Bentley
[email protected]                                              Aaron Thomas
[email protected]
[email protected]                                     James A. McQuinn
[email protected]                                        Alain Bergeron
[email protected]                                           Alan Lothian
[email protected]                                            Alan R Williams
[email protected]                                       Iain D. Bowen
[email protected]                               Joseph Bernard Cadotte
[email protected]                                       ANDREW JEPSON
[email protected]                                            Angus Johnston
[email protected]                                         Randall M. MacDonald
[email protected]                                             Luiz Claudio Duarte
[email protected]                                         Ken Arromdee
[email protected]                                          Arwel Parry
[email protected]                                    Phillip McGregor
[email protected]                                                   Grey Death
[email protected]                                                 Bruce Lewis
[email protected]                                     Jack Bennetto
BILL.LIVINGSTON%[email protected]
[email protected]                                         Bradley M. Kuhn
[email protected]                                      John W. Braue, III
[email protected]                                        Donald Tucker
[email protected]                                                   Captain Button
[email protected]                                Richard Gadsden
[email protected]                                        C.S.Johnson
[email protected]                                                Mark Cain
[email protected]                                                      John Tudek
[email protected]                                                  Carl Rhinehart
[email protected]                             Christopher B. Stone
[email protected]                                                         CHOAM
[email protected]                                  Christopher Ambler
[email protected]                                           Drew Clark
[email protected]                                         Chris Stamper
[email protected]                                Antonio Collins
[email protected]                                 Francesco Colonna
[email protected]                                                David Dailey
[email protected]                                                      Don Croyle
[email protected]                                                 Kevin Sullivan
[email protected]                                                     Dale Huckeby
[email protected]                                             Dan Rothschild
[email protected]                                                   Dan Kiselman
[email protected]                                         Dean C. Gahlon
[email protected]                                              Mark DeWitt
[email protected]                                              David Empey
[email protected]                                                 David Harden
[email protected]                                            Daniel M. Silevitch
[email protected]                                    David Legge
[email protected]                                         Daniel S Goodman
[email protected]                                         Evelyn C Leeper
eduardo.romero%[email protected]                                EDUARDO ROMERO
[email protected]                                                Eric Garbos
[email protected]                                                    Andrew Toppan
[email protected]                                   Edward M. Branscomb
[email protected]                                                   Emery Lapinski
[email protected]                                Sean Vanderfluit
[email protected]                                               Fraser Wilson
[email protected]                                              Greg Berigan
[email protected]                                           David Gerard
[email protected]                                         Nick Gibbins
[email protected]                                                Glyn Simpson
[email protected]
[email protected]                                            Mike Powell
[email protected]                                         Mr T P Sorrell
[email protected]
[email protected]                                      Ilona Koren-Deutsch
[email protected]                                    Irina Rempt-Drijfhout
[email protected]                                                 John R. Grout
[email protected]                                                  Jim Higgins
[email protected]                                            Joseph A. Admire
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]                                                 J.D. Falk
[email protected]
[email protected]                                            Jeff Drummond
[email protected]                                            John Brandt
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]                                                           Jonboy
[email protected]                                 Joyce Oshyer
[email protected]                                          Joseph R. Bauer Iii
[email protected]                                          Justin Armstrong
[email protected]
[email protected]                                      Kate Monteiro
[email protected]
[email protected]                                              K Pine
[email protected]                                  Martin Schroeder
[email protected]                                      Mr M.T. Morton
[email protected]
[email protected]                                    George Marsden
[email protected]                                  Jim Marshall - DCS
[email protected]                                  Matthew Bowen Harrington
[email protected]                                               Matt Kelland
[email protected]                                         Lech Mazur
[email protected]                                         Michael Bauser
[email protected]                                           Marco De Innocentis
[email protected]                                            Alayne McGregor
[email protected]                                       Marco de Innocentis
[email protected]                                              Miguel Farah F.
[email protected]                                                  Mike Hatz
[email protected]
[email protected]                                             Marty Helgesen
[email protected]                                 David Maurice
[email protected]                                      Antonis Mytilinis
[email protected]                                           n.whyte
[email protected]                                                     Nigel Allen
[email protected]                                    Craig J Neumeier
[email protected]                                          Nathan Hendrix
[email protected]                                        N. Hagerstown High School
[email protected]                                                 Noel Rappin
[email protected]                   M. `Making history by voting YES' Otto
[email protected]                                 Peter Metcalfe
[email protected]                                             Pat McMurray
[email protected]                                    Patrick Gavin
[email protected]                                                   Greywolf
[email protected]                                        Per Mathisen
[email protected]                                            Peter Campbell
[email protected]                                          Phil Hunt
[email protected]                                                         W.Pierce
[email protected]                                        Pierre Uszynski
[email protected]                                                        Peter Klungel
[email protected]                                             Nick Barlow
[email protected]                                                  Paul Michals
[email protected]                                          Nicolas Point
[email protected]                                                  Brad Andrews
[email protected]                                                   Robert Schmunk
[email protected]                                                 Rick Douglas
[email protected]                                             Richard H. Miller
[email protected]                                                  Ruth M. Sylte
[email protected]                                            Robert Marshall
[email protected]                                             Roman Zimmermann
[email protected]                                                   Ron Peterson
[email protected]                                          Rod Shelton
[email protected]
[email protected]                                       Jeffrey Rufinus
[email protected]                                              Jeff Rupley
[email protected]                                    Carny Ofir
[email protected]                                        Scott Burns
[email protected]                                Stephan Schulz
[email protected]                                               David Walker
[email protected]                                 GAYLORD E. SEGER
[email protected]                             David K. M. Klaus
[email protected]                                       Simon Lyall
[email protected]                                      Mike Richey
[email protected]                                         Steinn Sigurdsson
[email protected]                                              Steven J. Tella
[email protected]           Steve Gilham (Entropy requires no maintenance)
[email protected]                                  Steve Rogers
[email protected]                                                   Mick Hanou
[email protected]                                    Tim Isakson
[email protected]                                        Tore Christian Skobba
[email protected]                                                 Jim Ellwanger
[email protected]                                   Tracy Ratcliff
[email protected]                                Timothy Bruening
[email protected]                                           Vernon Bruce Fisher
[email protected]                                               Pat Hanby
[email protected]                                         Vladimir Menkov
[email protected]                                                             Stimpy
[email protected]                                               BILL WILSON
[email protected]                                        Marco De Innocentis
[email protected]                                                 Yeechang Lee

Voted No
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                                     Andy
[email protected]                             Andrew Hagen, symbolic analyst
[email protected]
[email protected]                                      Jeremy Billones
[email protected]                                                   Burt N Holzman
[email protected]                                            C. Douglas Baker
[email protected]                                               Christopher Ward
[email protected]                                             David
[email protected]
[email protected]                                                 Lynnette
[email protected]                                                J. Scott Farrow
[email protected]                                              Gabe Helou
[email protected]                                Brennan Tennesen Price
[email protected]                                         Robert Craig Harman
[email protected]                                            Barett McGavock
[email protected]                             James Alexander Chokey
[email protected]                                 Jeff Murphy
[email protected]                                                     Joe George
[email protected]                                     John R. MacWilliamson
[email protected]                                        Jeff Uphoff
[email protected]                                                  Louis Epstein
[email protected]                                               PATRICK YIP
[email protected]                                           Zeke M. Towson
[email protected]                                    Matt Schnierle
[email protected]                                          Nick Ingegneri
[email protected]                                    Charles M. Castevens
[email protected]                                                Pete Bastien
[email protected]                                              Rebecca Drayer
[email protected]                        Alan A. Reichert - Logicon -  Reston
[email protected]                                                     Ryan Waldron
[email protected]                                             Ollivier Robert
[email protected]                                           Scott T Rogers
[email protected]
[email protected]                                             Michael Shields
[email protected]                                         Smarasderagd
[email protected]                                                  Dwight Brown
[email protected]                                            Steersy
[email protected]                                          Stu Labovitz
[email protected]                            Technical Intelligence-MN-USA
[email protected]                                           John R. Tegtmeier
[email protected]                                            Thomas G. McWilliams
[email protected]                                        Tim Pierce
[email protected]
[email protected]                                         Risto Widenius
[email protected]                                                Joshua Heuman

Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                              Kenneth P Crouch
[email protected]                                          M Mike Taksar KC6ZPS
[email protected]                                        Stephen Joseph Smith


Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]
   ! No vote statement in message
[email protected]                                                   Dan J. Fuller
   ! Conflicting votes
[email protected]                                                        ron jacob
   ! No vote statement in message
[email protected]                                             wayne williamson
   ! Conflicting votes
-- 
Brenda J. Roder ([email protected])

 
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