From [email protected] Fri Nov 5 22:08:36 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Bill Pfeiffer)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.kids-talk,misc.kids,rec.travel,rec.travel.air,bit.listserv.travel-l
Subject: RFD: misc.kids.vacation
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 5 Nov 1993 20:15:59 -0500
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Request For Discussion
New Newsgroup MISC.KIDS.VACATION
Status: Unmoderated
This is the preliminary request for discussion on the creation of a new
Usenet newsgroup dedicated to discussion of family-oriented vacationing.
** CHARTER AND GOAL **
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for families, or anyone interested
in family-style vacationing, to exchange thoughts, ideas,
experiences, tips and information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group
will be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning a
family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those
that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short . People
could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get
passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
** RATIONALE **
There is currently no group on Usenet which addresses the proposed
subject matter. Misc.kids has high traffic already with parents
engaged in all manner of discussion pertaining to raising their
children. Rec.travel exists, but is not primarily focused on the
needs and issues of the family on vacation.
Family matters are increasingly important in the world. I
believe that misc.kids.vacation would fit right in and be
embraced by those who are so oriented.
** NAMESPACE **
I am not in any way committed to the choice of group name.
Although, I envision this group as more of an extension of misc.kids,
that of rec.travel, I did consider the name rec.travel.family.
Whatever the name, it is the group that I feel should be
created, not a name. I feel that misc.kids.vacation is
probably the best name for such an endeavor, but am not
committed to any specific name, if rationale can be offered
that another fits the charter better. All I ask is that we
don't tie the proposal up in endless bickering over the name.
This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a supplement
to an already fine newsgroup.
All discussion should take place in news.groups. I welcome anyone who
wishes to write to me personally as well. I hope this group is
successful. I also hope the net agrees.
Bill
[email protected]
From [email protected] Tue Nov 16 16:41:31 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Bill Pfeiffer)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.kids-talk,misc.kids,rec.travel,rec.travel.air,bit.listserv.travel-l
Subject: 2nd RFD: misc.kids.vacation
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 16 Nov 1993 14:16:57 -0500
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*Second* Request For Discussion
New Newsgroup MISC.KIDS.VACATION
Status: Unmoderated
This is the second and *expanded* request for discussion on the
creation of a new Usenet newsgroup dedicated to family-oriented
vacationing. Please read this even if you read the first RFD, it is
different. At the end (under the heading ** VOTING **) is a brief
explanation on what is required to pass the group, for those not
already familiar with the procedure.
** CHARTER AND GOAL **
MISC.KIDS.VACATION would be a place for everyone who is interested in
family-style vacationing to exchange thoughts, experiences, tips and
information, with others of like interest.
The net has a LOT of family-oriented people on it. A quick look at
misc.kids' traffic level will confirm that. I feel that this group
will be equally successful. Anyone with children knows that planning a
family vacation is an entirely different beast than just 'the two of
you' getting away. The needs and goals are totally different.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net exchange their accounts of vacation that sailed, and those
that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short . People
could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures that might get
passed by, because they just had not heard about it.
Why 'misc.kids' and not 'rec.travel'?
This question was mentioned a couple of times since the first
RFD came out.
While it seems logical to place a 'vacation' group in the 'travel'
namespace, I (and several others who have commented) see
misc.kids.vacation to be more of an 'extension of the family,' than
an 'extension of the act of travel'.
Misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge
and understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having
a thousand 'best friends' who have many approaches to a common theme.
The kinds of discussions which go on in misc.kids are not
found in any other location on the net.
It is also a very high volume newsgroup, with an equally high
signal-to-noise ratio. There are very few flame wars, despite the
many and varied opinions. In general, the posts are respectful,
insightful and very germain to the subjects at hand.
Misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Family vacations are more than simply a matter of "going to
X-location with the kids". Family vacations are part of the
family dynamic and many see them as integral parts of the overall
raising of their children. Family vacations do not have to
entail a great deal of travel. Also, (as one respondent put it)
"... you are unlikely to find the kinds of tips in rec.travel,
that one already finds in the misc.kids group, such as
how to change a diaper on an airplane...' [Paraphrased].
Misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions
of all forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel. From the BIG extravaganza's (like Disneyland,
et-al) to 'alternative' ideas for family get-away fun of a
more personal and explorative nature, like camping, hiking, or
what-have-you. From skydiving over the Andes, to the weekend
in the woods, it will open up the doors of communication,
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming with those who have
actually been there . Remember, before there was Disneyland,
there were families... and those families took vacations.
Misc.kids.vacation would offer a forum to get back in touch with
those sorts of ideas.
** RATIONALE **
There is currently no group on Usenet which addresses the proposed
subject matter. Misc.kids has high traffic already with parents
engaged in all manner of discussion pertaining to raising their
children.
Family matters are increasingly important in the world. I
believe that misc.kids.vacation would fit right in and be
embraced by those who are so oriented.
This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a supplement
to an already fine newsgroup.
Thanks for your time. I am available to answer any questions you
might have, or you may post them to news.groups or the group you are
reading this in.
I hope the net will allow this proposal to pass.
** VOTING ** (General, for those who are unfamiliar with Usenet voting)
On December 5, 1993 this proposal will go to a vote (Called
a CFV, call for votes). At that time you will be asked to
send in your email vote, either for or against the proposal
as it has been presented.
One vote is allowed per person, not per-account. So if you
have 5 news and mail accounts, you still may only vote once.
The voting continues for about 30 days. After that the votes
are counted. In order to create this group, it *MUST* have
100 more yes votes than no votes *AND* it must have a 2/3
majority of yes votes to no votes.
Therefore, it is very important that you vote. It only takes
a few seconds of your time and it does matter. Unless the
proposal gets the required margins and numbers of votes, it
will fail.
If you would like to be notified of the impending CFV, when it
is about to be started, and told where to mail your vote,
either look periodically in the group in which this note appears, or
write me and I will email you with the information as the date
draws nearer. You need not tell me how you are going to vote
in order to be placed on the notification list.
Have a good one.
William Pfeiffer
[email protected]
From [email protected] Thu Dec 2 16:59:45 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.kids-talk,misc.kids,misc.kids.computer,rec.travel,rec.travel.air,bit.listserv.travel-l,rec.arts.disney
Subject: CFV: misc.kids.vacation
Followup-To: poster
Date: 2 Dec 1993 01:26:42 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 74
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Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 3 Jan 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID:
References:
Reply-To: [email protected] (Ron Dippold Voting Alias)
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Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4361 news.groups:89208 alt.kids-talk:16181 misc.kids:103019 misc.kids.computer:1415 rec.travel:65751 rec.travel.air:14280 bit.listserv.travel-l:10956 rec.arts.disney:27216
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group misc.kids.vacation
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.vacation Discussion on all forms of family-oriented vacationing.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 2 January 1994.
After this CFV appears on news.announce.newgroups it will be posted to
the Branson Chat mailing list ([email protected]) by the
proponent.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact [email protected]. For questions about the
proposed group contact William Pfeiffer .
CHARTER
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there . It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations . misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
HOW TO VOTE
Send MAIL to: [email protected]
Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
I vote YES on misc.kids.vacation
I vote NO on misc.kids.vacation
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person and per account will be counted. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
From [email protected] Tue Dec 14 14:23:50 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.kids-talk,misc.kids,misc.kids.computer,rec.travel,rec.travel.air,bit.listserv.travel-l,rec.arts.disney
Subject: 2nd CFV: misc.kids.vacation
Supersedes:
Followup-To: poster
Date: 13 Dec 1993 15:03:20 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 80
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 3 Jan 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID:
References:
Reply-To: [email protected] (Ron Dippold Voting Alias)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4404 news.groups:90057 alt.kids-talk:16768 misc.kids:104245 misc.kids.computer:1486 rec.travel:66567 rec.travel.air:14607 bit.listserv.travel-l:11106 rec.arts.disney:28104
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group misc.kids.vacation
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.vacation Discussion on all forms of family-oriented vacationing.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 2 January 1994.
After this CFV appears on news.announce.newgroups it will be posted to
the Branson Chat mailing list ([email protected]) by the
proponent.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact [email protected]. For questions about the
proposed group contact William Pfeiffer .
CHARTER
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there . It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations . misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
A newsgroup of this type could be a godsend, as family members across
the net and around the world, exchange their accounts of vacation that
sailed, and those that, ...well... shall we say fell a little short
. People could find out about those 'lesser known' treasures
that might get passed by, because (s)he just had not heard about it.
Some of the best things in life are not advertised.
misc.kids.vacation will act as an information link between families of
different nations, who plan on vacationing across borders and
overseas, and are interested in learning about attractions which may
be common knowledge in a given nation, but unknown elsewhere.
The existing misc.kids is more than a newsgroup. It is a community of
parents and other significant adults, who pool their knowledge and
understandings in the area of raising kids. It is like having a
thousand 'best friends' with many approaches to a common theme.
misc.kids.vacation is a natural extension of that environment.
Note: This proposal is not meant as a reorg of misc.kids, but a
supplement to an already fine newsgroup.
HOW TO VOTE
Send MAIL to: [email protected]
Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
I vote YES on misc.kids.vacation
I vote NO on misc.kids.vacation
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person and per account will be counted. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
misc.kids.vacation group vote Bounce Ack List - no need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
From [email protected] Mon Jan 3 17:49:54 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.kids-talk,misc.kids,misc.kids.computer,rec.travel,rec.travel.air,bit.listserv.travel-l,rec.arts.disney
Subject: RESULT: misc.kids.vacation passes 291:46
Supersedes:
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 3 Jan 1994 16:58:39 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 390
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID:
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4434 news.groups:91317 alt.kids-talk:17411 misc.kids:106151 misc.kids.computer:1613 rec.travel:67898 rec.travel.air:15057 bit.listserv.travel-l:11305 rec.arts.disney:29010
unmoderated misc.kids.vacation group vote passes 291:46
There were 291 YES votes and 46 NO votes, for a total of 337 valid
votes. There were 2 invalid ballots.
For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES
and NO) votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO
votes. Thus, the group passes.
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.
If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
thereafter.
Newsgroups line:
misc.kids.vacation Discussion on all forms of family-oriented vacationing.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact [email protected]. For questions about the
proposed group contact William Pfeiffer .
CHARTER
misc.kids.vacation will be dedicated to in-depth discussions of all
forms of family vacationing, whether or not such plans involve
extensive travel.
>From the BIG extravaganza's to the weekend in the woods, it will open
up the doors of communication for those who have 'alternative' ideas
for family get-away fun. From the commercial vacations like Disney*
or Sea World, to those of a more personal and explorative nature,like
camping, hiking, or what-have-you. misc.kids.vacation will offer
choices, input, ideas and brainstorming between those who have
actually been there . It will offer a special place for those
who would like to do 'something different' together. Remember, before
there was Disneyland, there were families, and those families took
vacations . misc.kids.vacation would offer a place to get back
in touch with those sorts of ideas.
misc.kids.vacation group vote Mass Ack
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[email protected] Rick Campbell
[email protected] Rick Mundwiler
[email protected] Rita Hilt
[email protected] Richard Mandel
[email protected] Rob Lewis
[email protected] Roger MacNicol
[email protected] Roger Owen Gordon Longenbach
[email protected] Rolfe Tessem
[email protected] Ronald L. Hiser
[email protected] Bill Pfeiffer
[email protected] Becky Ruth
[email protected] Raymond Wu
[email protected] Rick Z. Martyn
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[email protected] Jose M. Davis
[email protected] Sam (SysOp)
[email protected] Bob Heddles
[email protected] Cheryl Brown
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[email protected] Scott Hansohn
[email protected] Scott Macomber
[email protected] Scott Finley
[email protected] Shane Hartman
[email protected] Suzanne
[email protected] timothy shimeall
[email protected] Sangita Kejriwal
[email protected] Steve Lecomte
[email protected] Sue Lewis
[email protected] Thomas Sloane
[email protected] Steven Scott {x68440 CF/DEV}
[email protected] Smarasderagd
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[email protected]
[email protected] Stephen Elmendorf
[email protected] Mark A. Stevens
[email protected] Steve Weisner
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[email protected] Alan Stockman
[email protected] John P. Straub
[email protected] Stu Labovitz
[email protected] Kathleen F. Stuart
[email protected] Sascha Wildner
[email protected] Tim Benson
[email protected] DUSTY
teresak%[email protected] TK
[email protected] Bruce Terrell x8271
[email protected] Terry McDill
[email protected] Eric Brunner (Contractor)
[email protected] Grace Sylvan
[email protected] Timo Tiira
[email protected] Timo Rinne
[email protected] Terry Depp
[email protected] Rob Wyatt
[email protected] Carol Tseng
[email protected] David A. Logan
[email protected] Courtney Elizabeth Uhler
[email protected] Glenn Burton
[email protected] Vincent J. Abella
[email protected] Darren Fast
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[email protected] S. Venkatesan
[email protected] Virgil Turner
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] Varda Ullman Novick
[email protected] Alice Wang
[email protected] Carl Watkins
[email protected] Don Watrous
[email protected] Randy Weber
[email protected] Anne Hill Wiebe
[email protected] Nancy Wight
[email protected] Sue Willis - NIU 815-753-0667, D0 708-840-8131
[email protected] Stephanie Winner
[email protected] Bill R. Hall
[email protected] Wayne S. Mery
XWILTBERGER%[email protected] DENEB::XWILTBERGER
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Votes in error
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[email protected] Sunil Subbakrishna
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