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Lists and statistics (M) (news.lists)
From rra@cs.stanford.edu Mon Jun 3 20:08:49 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,news.lists,news.admin.misc,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.nocem.misc,news.software.readers,news.software.b
Subject: RFD: news.lists.{nocem,misc}, news.software.misc
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 4 Jun 1996 00:09:03 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 145
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <833846939.15440@uunet.uu.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: news.lists.nocem
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8783 news.groups:209531 news.lists:4262 news.admin.misc:55107 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:70483 alt.nocem.misc:11609 news.software.readers:32405 news.software.b:20288
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group news.software.misc
unmoderated group news.lists.nocem
moderated group news.lists.misc (renames news.lists)
Newsgroup line:
news.lists.misc News-related statistics and lists. (Moderated)
news.lists.nocem Automated notices in the NoCeM protocol.
news.software.misc News-related software other than readers and servers.
This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup news.software.misc and the
reorganization of news.lists. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you
cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Proponent: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Ulf Bahrenfuss <wanagin@kingkong.escape.de>
Proponent: Raphael Quinet <Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se>
Proponent: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@uiuc.edu>
Proponent: Fridrik Skulason <frisk@complex.is>
Proponent: Dimitri Vulis <dlv@bwalk.dm.com>
Proponent: Cancelmoose[tm] <moose@cm.org>
RATIONALE: all groups
NoCeM is a prototype system for out-of-band editing of the news
stream, whereby the message-ids of certain desirable or undesirable
articles are identified by an "issuer" and prespecified action (ie,
removal of the article from the newsrc) is taken at the user's end.
Issuers can be subscribed to in the same way that newsgroups can be,
and an issuer's notice is authenticated with a public key. The
opinions of an issuer are only valid if a user wishes to abide by
their decision. A copy of the NoCeM FAQ and prototype client can be
obtained on alt.nocem.misc, at <URL:http://www.cm.org/>, or by sending
an email request to moose@cm.org.
Since the start of development of this project, there has been a
demand for both a place to discuss development issues, and also a
place to post the notices themselves. alt.nocem.misc has served as a
start, however its usefulness is extremely limited by poor alt.*
propagation. The demand for this (as judged by email requests for a
newsfeed) is felt to be high, and will continue to grow now that
automated spam notifications are being posted.
Issues regarding the development of software to work with Usenet news,
would be appropriate for a news.software.* group, however at the
moment there is insufficient volume to justify a news.software.nocem
group. The group news.software.misc would cover all projects that
aren't otherwise covered in the news.software heirarchy. Another
example besides NoCeM is modifications to news readers and servers to
implement authenticated cancels.
The posting of large amounts of computer generated data is most
appropriate for the news.lists heirarchy, so news.lists.nocem is
proposed as a group for posting NoCeM notices.
RATIONALE: news.lists.nocem
There was extensive discussion of whether or not to robomoderate this
newsgroup during the preliminary planning phases. It was finally
decided not to since the group should welcome all NoCeM messages
regardless of source or intent and the existence of even
robomoderation can create the appearance of unfairness.
RATIONALE: news.lists.misc
A renaming of news.lists to news.lists.misc is included to conform to
Usenet naming convention and at the request of and in cooperation with
the news.lists moderator.
CHARTER: news.lists.nocem
This group is for the posting of automated notices in the NoCeM
format. NoCeM notices may also be crossposted to other newsgroups as
appropriate and if the other group wants to see them. If your notice
includes discussion, please redirect followups out of this newsgroup.
Discussion of the nocem protocol is not appropriate for this
newsgroup, and should be posted to news.software.misc. Spamming to
this newsgroup will result in an itching pox being called down upon
your entire family.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: news.lists.misc
This group is for any news-related lists or statistics which are not
appropriate in any other newsgroup in the hierarchy. Examples of
on-topic postings include lists of currently valid newsgroups, Usenet
readership statistics, and lists of mailing lists.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: news.software.misc
This group is for the discussion of general news software issues not
otherwise covered by other groups in the heirarchy. Posting of
automated NoCeM, control or other notices is generally not appropriate
for this newsgroup, and should be posted to news.lists.nocem. (An
exception is made for the purposes of seeking debugging help.) Posts
that concern news software and other issues may be crossposted here.
General developments in news software which affect both readers and
servers are on-topic for this group.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: news.lists.misc
Moderator: David Lawrence <news-lists-request@uunet.uu.net>
David Lawrence is the current moderator of news.lists.
END MODERATOR INFO.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) will be posted by a neutral vote taker. Please do not
attempt to vote until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, news.lists, news.admin.misc,
news.admin.net-abuse.misc, alt.nocem.misc, news.software.readers,
news.software.b
--
Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu> <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
From rra@cs.stanford.edu Mon Sep 23 17:28:53 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,news.admin.misc,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.nocem.misc,news.software.readers,news.software.b,news.lists
Subject: 2nd RFD: news.software.misc, news.lists reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 23 Sep 1996 21:28:47 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 188
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <843514126.21476@uunet.uu.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: news.lists.filters
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:9180 news.groups:232056 news.admin.misc:57694 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:133443 alt.nocem.misc:18651 news.software.readers:36523 news.software.b:20812 news.lists:4411
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group news.software.misc
unmoderated group news.lists.filters
moderated group news.lists.misc (renames news.lists)
CHANGES from previous RFD:
news.lists.nocem changed to news.lists.filters, rationale expanded.
Newsgroup lines:
news.lists.filters Notices for automated news filtering systems.
news.lists.misc News-related statistics and lists. (Moderated)
news.software.misc News-related software other than readers and servers.
This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup news.software.misc and the
reorganization of news.lists. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you
cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.
Proponent: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Ulf Bahrenfuss <wanagin@kingkong.hanse.de>
Proponent: Raphael Quinet <Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se>
Proponent: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@uiuc.edu>
Proponent: Fridrik Skulason <frisk@complex.is>
Proponent: Dimitri Vulis <dlv@bwalk.dm.com>
Proponent: Cancelmoose[tm] <moose@cm.org>
RATIONALE: all groups
Unmoderated newsgroups are becoming less useful as massive numbers of
off-topic posts, crossposts, and multiposts crowd out on-topic threads
and drive the discussion elsewhere. As an alternative to the
traditional solutions (killfiles, creation of moderated newsgroups,
issuing third-party cancels), several automatic news filtering
protocols have been proposed as a means to permit effective
communication in affected newsgroups without infringing on anyone's
ability to post freely. As Usenet moves toward authenticated cancels,
these filtering protocols will hopefully replace third-party cancels
as the means to counteract forgeries, spews, copyright violations,
misplaced binaries, excessive multiposting, and other kinds of
inappropriate news traffic.
Here is a description of one of the most popular of these protocols,
from <URL:http://www.cm.org/>:
Q: What is NoCeM?
A: NoCeM (pronounced No See 'Em) may well be:
* A solution to the spam problem.
* A solution to the spam-cancel problem.
* A way to "edit" Usenet if that's what you want.
* A way to have others "edit" Usenet for you, if that's what
you want.
* A way to have no one alter what you see on Usenet, (to the
degree that this is possible.)
Basically, it's a protocol for sending out lists of message ids that
you recommend a person either read or not read. It allows spam to be
dealt with without all the problems of unauthenticated cancels, since
each user can just choose the spam removers that they trust and use
NoCeM to hide all the articles they hide. It allows someone to
"moderate" a newsgroup without actually changing it; you can just
subscribe to their NoCeM messages and you'll get only those articles
that they think are worth reading.
More formally, NoCeM is a prototype system for out-of-band editing of
the news stream, whereby the message-ids of certain desirable or
undesirable articles are identified by an "issuer" and prespecified
action (ie, removal of the article from the newsrc) is taken at the
user's end. Issuers can be subscribed to in the same way that
newsgroups can be, and an issuer's notice is authenticated with a
public key. The opinions of an issuer are only valid if a user wishes
to abide by their decision. A copy of the NoCeM FAQ and prototype
client can be obtained on alt.nocem.misc, at <URL:http://www.cm.org/>,
or by sending an email request to moose@cm.org.
Since the start of development of NoCeM, there has been a demand for
both a place to discuss development issues, and also a place to post
the notices themselves. alt.nocem.misc has served as a start, however
its usefulness is extremely limited by poor alt.* propagation. The
demand for this (as judged by email requests for a newsfeed) is felt
to be high, and will continue to grow now that automated spam
notifications are being posted. In addition, other filtering systems
are also being developed, and discussion of each of them separately
and all of them in light of each other will be quite valuable.
Issues regarding the development of software to work with Usenet news
would be appropriate for a news.software.* group; however, at the
moment there is insufficient volume to justify a news.software.nocem
group. The group news.software.misc would cover all projects that
aren't otherwise covered in the news.software hierarchy. Another
example besides NoCeM is modifications to news readers and servers to
implement authenticated cancels.
The posting of large amounts of computer generated data is most
appropriate for the news.lists heirarchy, so news.lists.filters is
proposed as a group for posting NoCeM notices as well as notices for
any other filtering methods currently in use or developed in the
future.
RATIONALE: news.lists.filters
There was extensive discussion of whether or not to robomoderate this
newsgroup during the preliminary planning phases. It was finally
decided not to since the group should welcome all NoCeM messages
regardless of source or intent and the existence of even
robomoderation can create the appearance of unfairness.
The name news.lists.filters was chosen over news.lists.nocem to avoid
the unclear acronym and make it more obvious what the group should
contain.
RATIONALE: news.lists.misc
A renaming of news.lists to news.lists.misc is included to conform to
Usenet naming convention and at the request of and in cooperation with
the news.lists moderator.
CHARTER: news.lists.filters
This group is for the posting of automated notices for use with news
filtering systems, such as notices in the NoCeM format. Filter
notices may also be crossposted to other newsgroups as appropriate and
if the other group wants to see them. If your notice includes
discussion, please redirect followups out of this newsgroup.
Discussion of the nocem protocol is not appropriate for this
newsgroup, and should be posted to news.software.misc. Spamming to
this newsgroup will result in an itching pox being called down upon
your entire family.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: news.lists.misc
This group is for any news-related lists or statistics which are not
appropriate in any other newsgroup in the hierarchy. Examples of
on-topic postings include lists of currently valid newsgroups, Usenet
readership statistics, and lists of mailing lists.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: news.software.misc
This group is for the discussion of general news software issues not
otherwise covered by other groups in the hierarchy. Posting of
automated NoCeM, control or other notices is generally not appropriate
for this newsgroup, and should be posted to news.lists.filters. (An
exception is made for the purposes of seeking debugging help.) Posts
that concern news software and other issues may be crossposted here.
General developments in news software which affect both readers and
servers are on-topic for this group.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: news.lists.misc
Moderator: David Lawrence <news-lists-request@uunet.uu.net>
END MODERATOR INFO.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) will be posted by a neutral vote taker. Please do not
attempt to vote until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, news.admin.misc,
news.admin.net-abuse.misc, alt.nocem.misc, news.software.readers,
news.software.b, news.lists
--
Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu> <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
From jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi Mon Nov 11 19:08:46 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jani Patokallio <jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.nocem.misc,news.admin.misc,news.admin.net-abuse.announce,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,news.lists,news.software.readers
Subject: CFV: news.software.misc, news.lists reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 12 Nov 1996 00:08:38 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 231
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 4 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <847757317.26691@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@hut.fi
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: news.lists.filters
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:9340 news.groups:238713 alt.nocem.misc:23780 news.admin.misc:59002 news.admin.net-abuse.announce:10614 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:152870 news.lists:4494 news.software.readers:38054
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group news.lists.filters
moderated group news.lists.misc (renames news.lists)
unmoderated group news.software.misc
Newsgroups lines:
news.lists.filters Notices for automated news filtering systems.
news.lists.misc News-related statistics and lists. (Moderated)
news.software.misc News-related software other than readers and servers.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Dec 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Direct questions
about the proposed group to the proponent. Do not distribute this CFV or the
information contained in it in any form without the votetaker's permission.
Proponent: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Ulf Bahrenfuss <wanagin@kingkong.hanse.de>
Proponent: Raphael Quinet <Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se>
Proponent: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@uiuc.edu>
Proponent: Fridrik Skulason <frisk@complex.is>
Proponent: Dimitri Vulis <dlv@bwalk.dm.com>
Proponent: Cancelmoose[tm] <moose@cm.org>
Votetaker: Jani Patokallio <jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi>
RATIONALE: all groups
Unmoderated newsgroups are becoming less useful as massive numbers of
off-topic posts, crossposts, and multiposts crowd out on-topic threads
and drive the discussion elsewhere. As an alternative to the
traditional solutions (killfiles, creation of moderated newsgroups,
issuing third-party cancels), several automatic news filtering
protocols have been proposed as a means to permit effective
communication in affected newsgroups without infringing on anyone's
ability to post freely. As Usenet moves toward authenticated cancels,
these filtering protocols will hopefully replace third-party cancels
as the means to counteract forgeries, spews, copyright violations,
misplaced binaries, excessive multiposting, and other kinds of
inappropriate news traffic.
Here is a description of one of the most popular of these protocols,
from <URL:http://www.cm.org/>:
Q: What is NoCeM?
A: NoCeM (pronounced No See 'Em) may well be:
* A solution to the spam problem.
* A solution to the spam-cancel problem.
* A way to "edit" Usenet if that's what you want.
* A way to have others "edit" Usenet for you, if that's what
you want.
* A way to have no one alter what you see on Usenet, (to the
degree that this is possible.)
Basically, it's a protocol for sending out lists of message ids that
you recommend a person either read or not read. It allows spam to be
dealt with without all the problems of unauthenticated cancels, since
each user can just choose the spam removers that they trust and use
NoCeM to hide all the articles they hide. It allows someone to
"moderate" a newsgroup without actually changing it; you can just
subscribe to their NoCeM messages and you'll get only those articles
that they think are worth reading.
More formally, NoCeM is a prototype system for out-of-band editing of
the news stream, whereby the message-ids of certain desirable or
undesirable articles are identified by an "issuer" and prespecified
action (ie, removal of the article from the newsrc) is taken at the
user's end. Issuers can be subscribed to in the same way that
newsgroups can be, and an issuer's notice is authenticated with a
public key. The opinions of an issuer are only valid if a user wishes
to abide by their decision. A copy of the NoCeM FAQ and prototype
client can be obtained on alt.nocem.misc, at <URL:http://www.cm.org/>,
or by sending an email request to moose@cm.org.
Since the start of development of NoCeM, there has been a demand for
both a place to discuss development issues, and also a place to post
the notices themselves. alt.nocem.misc has served as a start, however
its usefulness is extremely limited by poor alt.* propagation. The
demand for this (as judged by email requests for a newsfeed) is felt
to be high, and will continue to grow now that automated spam
notifications are being posted. In addition, other filtering systems
are also being developed, and discussion of each of them separately
and all of them in light of each other will be quite valuable.
Issues regarding the development of software to work with Usenet news
would be appropriate for a news.software.* group; however, at the
moment there is insufficient volume to justify a news.software.nocem
group. The group news.software.misc would cover all projects that
aren't otherwise covered in the news.software hierarchy. Another
example besides NoCeM is modifications to news readers and servers to
implement authenticated cancels.
The posting of large amounts of computer generated data is most
appropriate for the news.lists heirarchy, so news.lists.filters is
proposed as a group for posting NoCeM notices as well as notices for
any other filtering methods currently in use or developed in the
future.
RATIONALE: news.lists.filters
There was extensive discussion of whether or not to robomoderate this
newsgroup during the preliminary planning phases. It was finally
decided not to since the group should welcome all NoCeM messages
regardless of source or intent and the existence of even
robomoderation can create the appearance of unfairness.
The name news.lists.filters was chosen over news.lists.nocem to avoid
the unclear acronym and make it more obvious what the group should
contain.
RATIONALE: news.lists.misc
A renaming of news.lists to news.lists.misc is included to conform to
Usenet naming convention and at the request of and in cooperation with
the news.lists moderator.
CHARTER: news.lists.filters
This group is for the posting of automated notices for use with news
filtering systems, such as notices in the NoCeM format. Filter
notices may also be crossposted to other newsgroups as appropriate and
if the other group wants to see them. If your notice includes
discussion, please redirect followups out of this newsgroup.
Discussion of the nocem protocol is not appropriate for this
newsgroup, and should be posted to news.software.misc. Spamming to
this newsgroup will result in an itching pox being called down upon
your entire family.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: news.lists.misc
This group is for any news-related lists or statistics which are not
appropriate in any other newsgroup in the hierarchy. Examples of
on-topic postings include lists of currently valid newsgroups, Usenet
readership statistics, and lists of mailing lists.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: news.lists.misc
Moderator: David Lawrence <news-lists-request@uunet.uu.net>
Administrative contact address: news-lists-request@uunet.uu.net
Article submission address: news-lists@uunet.uu.net
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: news.software.misc
This group is for the discussion of general news software issues not
otherwise covered by other groups in the hierarchy. Posting of
automated NoCeM, control or other notices is generally not appropriate
for this newsgroup, and should be posted to news.lists.filters. (An
exception is made for the purposes of seeking debugging help.) Posts
that concern news software and other issues may be crossposted here.
General developments in news software which affect both readers and
servers are on-topic for this group.
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE:
* Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts. Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!
* Mark the ballot and then MAIL it to: < voting@hut.fi >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.
* In order to properly record your vote, please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.
* Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
[ CANCEL ] example.cancellation
* DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.
======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: news.software.misc, news.lists reorganization
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <NLF-0001> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:
Voter name:
| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
Your Vote Newsgroup
--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
[ ] news.lists.filters
[ ] news.lists.misc
[ ] news.software.misc
======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:
Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One account per person and one vote
per person. Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.
Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by
WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes.
Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will
be published in the final voting results post.
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted
to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, ask the votetaker.
--
Jani Patokallio <jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi>
Voting address: <voting@hut.fi>
From jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi Fri Nov 22 10:21:33 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jani Patokallio <jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.nocem.misc,news.admin.misc,news.admin.net-abuse.announce,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,news.lists,news.software.readers
Subject: 2nd CFV: news.software.misc, news.lists reorganization
Supersedes: <847757317.26691@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:21:30 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 231
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 4 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <848676087.29254@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: voting@hut.fi
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: news.lists.filters
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:9377 news.groups:240072 alt.nocem.misc:24889 news.admin.misc:59266 news.admin.net-abuse.announce:11133 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:155957 news.lists:4495 news.software.readers:38311
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group news.lists.filters
moderated group news.lists.misc (renames news.lists)
unmoderated group news.software.misc
Newsgroups lines:
news.lists.filters Notices for automated news filtering systems.
news.lists.misc News-related statistics and lists. (Moderated)
news.software.misc News-related software other than readers and servers.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Dec 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Direct questions
about the proposed group to the proponent. Do not distribute this CFV or the
information contained in it in any form without the votetaker's permission.
Proponent: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Ulf Bahrenfuss <wanagin@kingkong.hanse.de>
Proponent: Raphael Quinet <Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se>
Proponent: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@uiuc.edu>
Proponent: Fridrik Skulason <frisk@complex.is>
Proponent: Dimitri Vulis <dlv@bwalk.dm.com>
Proponent: Cancelmoose[tm] <moose@cm.org>
Votetaker: Jani Patokallio <jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi>
RATIONALE: all groups
Unmoderated newsgroups are becoming less useful as massive numbers of
off-topic posts, crossposts, and multiposts crowd out on-topic threads
and drive the discussion elsewhere. As an alternative to the
traditional solutions (killfiles, creation of moderated newsgroups,
issuing third-party cancels), several automatic news filtering
protocols have been proposed as a means to permit effective
communication in affected newsgroups without infringing on anyone's
ability to post freely. As Usenet moves toward authenticated cancels,
these filtering protocols will hopefully replace third-party cancels
as the means to counteract forgeries, spews, copyright violations,
misplaced binaries, excessive multiposting, and other kinds of
inappropriate news traffic.
Here is a description of one of the most popular of these protocols,
from <URL:http://www.cm.org/>:
Q: What is NoCeM?
A: NoCeM (pronounced No See 'Em) may well be:
* A solution to the spam problem.
* A solution to the spam-cancel problem.
* A way to "edit" Usenet if that's what you want.
* A way to have others "edit" Usenet for you, if that's what
you want.
* A way to have no one alter what you see on Usenet, (to the
degree that this is possible.)
Basically, it's a protocol for sending out lists of message ids that
you recommend a person either read or not read. It allows spam to be
dealt with without all the problems of unauthenticated cancels, since
each user can just choose the spam removers that they trust and use
NoCeM to hide all the articles they hide. It allows someone to
"moderate" a newsgroup without actually changing it; you can just
subscribe to their NoCeM messages and you'll get only those articles
that they think are worth reading.
More formally, NoCeM is a prototype system for out-of-band editing of
the news stream, whereby the message-ids of certain desirable or
undesirable articles are identified by an "issuer" and prespecified
action (ie, removal of the article from the newsrc) is taken at the
user's end. Issuers can be subscribed to in the same way that
newsgroups can be, and an issuer's notice is authenticated with a
public key. The opinions of an issuer are only valid if a user wishes
to abide by their decision. A copy of the NoCeM FAQ and prototype
client can be obtained on alt.nocem.misc, at <URL:http://www.cm.org/>,
or by sending an email request to moose@cm.org.
Since the start of development of NoCeM, there has been a demand for
both a place to discuss development issues, and also a place to post
the notices themselves. alt.nocem.misc has served as a start, however
its usefulness is extremely limited by poor alt.* propagation. The
demand for this (as judged by email requests for a newsfeed) is felt
to be high, and will continue to grow now that automated spam
notifications are being posted. In addition, other filtering systems
are also being developed, and discussion of each of them separately
and all of them in light of each other will be quite valuable.
Issues regarding the development of software to work with Usenet news
would be appropriate for a news.software.* group; however, at the
moment there is insufficient volume to justify a news.software.nocem
group. The group news.software.misc would cover all projects that
aren't otherwise covered in the news.software hierarchy. Another
example besides NoCeM is modifications to news readers and servers to
implement authenticated cancels.
The posting of large amounts of computer generated data is most
appropriate for the news.lists heirarchy, so news.lists.filters is
proposed as a group for posting NoCeM notices as well as notices for
any other filtering methods currently in use or developed in the
future.
RATIONALE: news.lists.filters
There was extensive discussion of whether or not to robomoderate this
newsgroup during the preliminary planning phases. It was finally
decided not to since the group should welcome all NoCeM messages
regardless of source or intent and the existence of even
robomoderation can create the appearance of unfairness.
The name news.lists.filters was chosen over news.lists.nocem to avoid
the unclear acronym and make it more obvious what the group should
contain.
RATIONALE: news.lists.misc
A renaming of news.lists to news.lists.misc is included to conform to
Usenet naming convention and at the request of and in cooperation with
the news.lists moderator.
CHARTER: news.lists.filters
This group is for the posting of automated notices for use with news
filtering systems, such as notices in the NoCeM format. Filter
notices may also be crossposted to other newsgroups as appropriate and
if the other group wants to see them. If your notice includes
discussion, please redirect followups out of this newsgroup.
Discussion of the nocem protocol is not appropriate for this
newsgroup, and should be posted to news.software.misc. Spamming to
this newsgroup will result in an itching pox being called down upon
your entire family.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: news.lists.misc
This group is for any news-related lists or statistics which are not
appropriate in any other newsgroup in the hierarchy. Examples of
on-topic postings include lists of currently valid newsgroups, Usenet
readership statistics, and lists of mailing lists.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: news.lists.misc
Moderator: David Lawrence <news-lists-request@uunet.uu.net>
Administrative contact address: news-lists-request@uunet.uu.net
Article submission address: news-lists@uunet.uu.net
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: news.software.misc
This group is for the discussion of general news software issues not
otherwise covered by other groups in the hierarchy. Posting of
automated NoCeM, control or other notices is generally not appropriate
for this newsgroup, and should be posted to news.lists.filters. (An
exception is made for the purposes of seeking debugging help.) Posts
that concern news software and other issues may be crossposted here.
General developments in news software which affect both readers and
servers are on-topic for this group.
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE:
* Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts. Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!
* Mark the ballot and then MAIL it to: < voting@hut.fi >
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.
* In order to properly record your vote, please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.
* Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:
[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
[ CANCEL ] example.cancellation
* DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.
======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: news.software.misc, news.lists reorganization
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <NLF-0002> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:
Voter name:
| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
Your Vote Newsgroup
--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
[ ] news.lists.filters
[ ] news.lists.misc
[ ] news.software.misc
======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============
IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:
Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One account per person and one vote
per person. Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.
Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by
WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes.
Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will
be published in the final voting results post.
The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute
this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted
to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, ask the votetaker.
--
Jani Patokallio <jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi>
Voting address: <voting@hut.fi>
From jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi Wed Dec 4 12:46:18 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jani Patokallio <jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.nocem.misc,news.admin.misc,news.admin.net-abuse.announce,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,news.lists,news.software.readers
Subject: RESULT: news.software.misc, news.lists reorganization all groups pass
Supersedes: <848676087.29254@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 4 Dec 1996 12:46:14 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 383
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <849721573.6780@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: news.lists.filters
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:9420 news.groups:241456 alt.nocem.misc:25937 news.admin.misc:59424 news.admin.net-abuse.announce:11408 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:158127 news.lists:4552 news.software.readers:38543
RESULT
unmoderated group news.lists.filters passes 184:16
moderated group news.lists.misc (renames news.lists) passes 171:28
unmoderated group news.software.misc passes 178:18
news.software.misc, news.lists reorganization results - 204 valid votes
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
184 16 : Yes Yes : Yes : news.lists.filters
171 28 : Yes Yes : Yes : news.lists.misc (renames news.lists)
178 18 : Yes Yes : Yes : news.software.misc
Newsgroups lines:
news.lists.filters Notices for automated news filtering systems.
news.lists.misc News-related statistics and lists. (Moderated)
news.software.misc News-related software other than readers and servers.
The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Dec 1996.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Direct questions
about the proposed group to the proponent. Do not distribute this CFV or the
information contained in it in any form without the votetaker's permission.
Proponent: Russ Allbery <rra@cs.stanford.edu>
Proponent: Ulf Bahrenfuss <wanagin@kingkong.hanse.de>
Proponent: Raphael Quinet <Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se>
Proponent: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@uiuc.edu>
Proponent: Fridrik Skulason <frisk@complex.is>
Proponent: Dimitri Vulis <dlv@bwalk.dm.com>
Proponent: Cancelmoose[tm] <moose@cm.org>
Votetaker: Jani Patokallio <jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi>
RATIONALE: all groups
Unmoderated newsgroups are becoming less useful as massive numbers of
off-topic posts, crossposts, and multiposts crowd out on-topic threads
and drive the discussion elsewhere. As an alternative to the
traditional solutions (killfiles, creation of moderated newsgroups,
issuing third-party cancels), several automatic news filtering
protocols have been proposed as a means to permit effective
communication in affected newsgroups without infringing on anyone's
ability to post freely. As Usenet moves toward authenticated cancels,
these filtering protocols will hopefully replace third-party cancels
as the means to counteract forgeries, spews, copyright violations,
misplaced binaries, excessive multiposting, and other kinds of
inappropriate news traffic.
Here is a description of one of the most popular of these protocols,
from <URL:http://www.cm.org/>:
Q: What is NoCeM?
A: NoCeM (pronounced No See 'Em) may well be:
* A solution to the spam problem.
* A solution to the spam-cancel problem.
* A way to "edit" Usenet if that's what you want.
* A way to have others "edit" Usenet for you, if that's what
you want.
* A way to have no one alter what you see on Usenet, (to the
degree that this is possible.)
Basically, it's a protocol for sending out lists of message ids that
you recommend a person either read or not read. It allows spam to be
dealt with without all the problems of unauthenticated cancels, since
each user can just choose the spam removers that they trust and use
NoCeM to hide all the articles they hide. It allows someone to
"moderate" a newsgroup without actually changing it; you can just
subscribe to their NoCeM messages and you'll get only those articles
that they think are worth reading.
More formally, NoCeM is a prototype system for out-of-band editing of
the news stream, whereby the message-ids of certain desirable or
undesirable articles are identified by an "issuer" and prespecified
action (ie, removal of the article from the newsrc) is taken at the
user's end. Issuers can be subscribed to in the same way that
newsgroups can be, and an issuer's notice is authenticated with a
public key. The opinions of an issuer are only valid if a user wishes
to abide by their decision. A copy of the NoCeM FAQ and prototype
client can be obtained on alt.nocem.misc, at <URL:http://www.cm.org/>,
or by sending an email request to moose@cm.org.
Since the start of development of NoCeM, there has been a demand for
both a place to discuss development issues, and also a place to post
the notices themselves. alt.nocem.misc has served as a start, however
its usefulness is extremely limited by poor alt.* propagation. The
demand for this (as judged by email requests for a newsfeed) is felt
to be high, and will continue to grow now that automated spam
notifications are being posted. In addition, other filtering systems
are also being developed, and discussion of each of them separately
and all of them in light of each other will be quite valuable.
Issues regarding the development of software to work with Usenet news
would be appropriate for a news.software.* group; however, at the
moment there is insufficient volume to justify a news.software.nocem
group. The group news.software.misc would cover all projects that
aren't otherwise covered in the news.software hierarchy. Another
example besides NoCeM is modifications to news readers and servers to
implement authenticated cancels.
The posting of large amounts of computer generated data is most
appropriate for the news.lists heirarchy, so news.lists.filters is
proposed as a group for posting NoCeM notices as well as notices for
any other filtering methods currently in use or developed in the
future.
RATIONALE: news.lists.filters
There was extensive discussion of whether or not to robomoderate this
newsgroup during the preliminary planning phases. It was finally
decided not to since the group should welcome all NoCeM messages
regardless of source or intent and the existence of even
robomoderation can create the appearance of unfairness.
The name news.lists.filters was chosen over news.lists.nocem to avoid
the unclear acronym and make it more obvious what the group should
contain.
RATIONALE: news.lists.misc
A renaming of news.lists to news.lists.misc is included to conform to
Usenet naming convention and at the request of and in cooperation with
the news.lists moderator.
CHARTER: news.lists.filters
This group is for the posting of automated notices for use with news
filtering systems, such as notices in the NoCeM format. Filter
notices may also be crossposted to other newsgroups as appropriate and
if the other group wants to see them. If your notice includes
discussion, please redirect followups out of this newsgroup.
Discussion of the nocem protocol is not appropriate for this
newsgroup, and should be posted to news.software.misc. Spamming to
this newsgroup will result in an itching pox being called down upon
your entire family.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: news.lists.misc
This group is for any news-related lists or statistics which are not
appropriate in any other newsgroup in the hierarchy. Examples of
on-topic postings include lists of currently valid newsgroups, Usenet
readership statistics, and lists of mailing lists.
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: news.lists.misc
Moderator: David Lawrence <news-lists-request@uunet.uu.net>
Administrative contact address: news-lists-request@uunet.uu.net
Article submission address: news-lists@uunet.uu.net
END MODERATOR INFO.
CHARTER: news.software.misc
This group is for the discussion of general news software issues not
otherwise covered by other groups in the hierarchy. Posting of
automated NoCeM, control or other notices is generally not appropriate
for this newsgroup, and should be posted to news.lists.filters. (An
exception is made for the purposes of seeking debugging help.) Posts
that concern news software and other issues may be crossposted here.
General developments in news software which affect both readers and
servers are on-topic for this group.
END CHARTER.
news.software.misc, news.lists reorganization Final Vote Ack
news.software.misc -----+
news.lists.misc (renames news.lists) ----+|
news.lists.filters ---+||
|||
*chrisc@cet.com Chris A. Calone YYY
106230.154@compuserve.com Antonio Mario Lorusso YYY
aahz@netcom.com Aahz YNY
abostick@netcom.com Alan Bostick YYY
adia@egnatia.ee.auth.gr Alejandros Diamandidis YYY
af@contract.co.uk Alan Fleming YYY
ahenry@dircon.co.uk Andrew Henry YYY
aivanise@zems.fer.hr Aleksandar Ivanisevic YYY
akline@crl.com Alan H. Kline YYY
Alain.Deckers@nessie.mcc.ac.uk Alain Deckers YYY
alan@noel.pd.org alan watts YYY
alanc@godzilla.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Alan Coopersmith YYY
alansz@mellers1.psych.berkeley.edu Alan Schwartz YYY
anandc@ugcs.caltech.edu Anand Chelian YY-
andrewg@microlise.co.uk Andrew Gierth YYY
andyl@harlequin.com ANdy Latto YNN
ankh@iconz.co.nz J. Sean Connell YYY
anne@alcor.concordia.ca Anne Bennett YYY
arielle@taronga.com Stephanie da Silva YYY
aschmitt@fia.net Al Schmitt YYY
ashton@netcom.com Ashton Eidolon YYY
barnett@crd.GE.COM Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> YYY
bcoleman@mindspring.com Ben Coleman YYY
bedmonds@cs.ubc.ca Brian Edmonds YYY
bengtl@maths.lth.se Bengt Larsson NNN
bill@scconsult.com Bill Stewart-Cole YYY
billones@primenet.com Jeremy Billones YY-
bluddo@netcom.com Alex Feely YNY
bob.frable@juno.com Bob Frable YYY
Bob.Mascaro@63.fido.pen.net Robert Mascaro YYY
bochmann@TUDURZ.urz.tu-dresden.de Henryk Bochmann NNN
bonomi@delta.ece.nwu.edu Robert Bonomi YYY
booda@datasync.com Martin H. Booda NNN
breiter@mathematik.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE Bernhard Reiter YYY
bromage@mdw087.cc.monash.edu.au David Bromage YYY
bud.jamison@thekat.maximumaccess.com Bud Jamison YYY
byxbe@KnowledgeTech.com Thom Byxbe YYY
C.Martin@sheffield.ac.uk Chris Martin YYY
cdjeris@midway.uchicago.edu Christopher Jeris YYY
charlie.andrews@commobunker.com Charlie Andrews NNN
chpr@via.at Christian Pree YYY
chris@stallion.oz.au Christopher J Biggs YYY
ckk@pobox.com Chris Koenigsberg YYY
cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu Chris Siebenmann YYY
combee@techwood.org Ben Combee YYY
copper@sidehack.gweep.net Greg Marr YYY
crleech@freenet.carleton.ca Colin Leech YYY
croyle@gelemna.ft-wayne.in.us Don Croyle Y-Y
d90-two@nada.kth.se Thomas Wolmer YYY
Damien.Doligez@inria.fr Damien Doligez YYY
daniel.rybowski@infoboard.be Daniel Rybowski YYY
dan_moore@supra.com Dan Moore YYY
david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk Dave Mayall YYY
davidsen@prodigy.com Bill Davidsen YYY
davidwu@progarts.com David Whitehorn-Umphres YYY
deane@idsonline.com Deane Lofton YYY
del@intranet.com G. Del Merritt YYY
dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au David Formosa YYY
ditz@tacit.com Vin Locke YYY
dlv@bwalk.dm.com Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Y-Y
dmckeon@swcp.com Denis McKeon YYY
doug@bullet.towson.edu Doug McNaught YYY
dporter@skyenet.net Don Porter YYY
dsr@lns598.lns.cornell.edu Dan Riley YYY
dummy@c2.net Robert Brown YYY
eggert@twinsun.com Paul Eggert YYY
eli@NetUSA.Net Benjamin Elijah Griffin YYY
ellis@corinth.alphalink.com Rick Ellis YYY
emv@mail.coast.net E Vielmetti YYY
fifi@baghira.han.de Axel F. Zinser YYY
fpv@xymph.iaf.nl Frans P. de Vries YYY
gaillard@panix.com Ed Gaillard NNN
gbyshenk@tezcat.com gregory byshenk YYY
grobe@netins.net Jonathan Grobe YYY
harri.johansson@hpy.fi harri johansson YYY
heilmayr@math.berkeley.edu Stephan Heilmayr YYY
herber@fnal.gov Randolph J Herber YYY
herbert@greathan.apana.org.au Herbert Xu YYY
hermit@cats.ucsc.edu William R Ward YNN
hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com howard goldstein YYY
hud@netcom.com Hud Nordin YYY
hwr@pilhuhn.de Heiko W.Rupp YYY
j-sorensen@worldnet.att.net Jim Sorensen YYY
J.Goldberg@cranfield.ac.uk Jeffrey Goldberg YYY
james.stansell@wcom.com James Stansell YYY
james@biometry.demon.co.uk James Lynn YY-
jcostom@sjis.com Jason Costomiris NNY
jdg@rahul.net John David Galt Y-Y
jeremy@exit109.com Jeremy YYY
Jerry@PeachNet.EDU Jerry W. Segers YYY
jgeorge@nbi.com Joe George NNN
Jimrtex@gnn.com Jim Riley YNY
jjd@primenet.com Jim Davis YYY
jkramer1@swarthmore.edu Joshua Kramer YYY
jlaiho@ichaos.nullnet.fi Juha Laiho YYY
jlowman@netcom.com Jim Lowman YNY
joe@decoy.uoregon.edu Joe St Sauver YYY
john@albemuth.plain.co.nz John Collis YYY
jpc@drum.msfc.nasa.gov J. Porter Clark YYY
jrusling@worldnet.att.net Jim Rusling YYY
jsdy@cais.cais.com Joseph S. D. Yao YYY
jsi@idiom.com Michael Craft NNN
justus@nezumi.tky.hut.fi Juhana Räsänen YYY
jwreece@sprynet.com John W. Reece ---
kai@khms.westfalen.de Kai Henningsen YYY
karen87@athenet.net Karen M. Buckarma YYY
karromde@nyx.net Ken Arromdee -N-
katew@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu Katharine Weizel YYY
kimdv@netcom.com Kim DeVaughn YNY
kimketo@sol.utu.fi Kimmo Ketolainen +358 40 555 5508 YYY
kmckinla@ochin.on.ca Kenneth McKinlay YYY
krj@world.std.com Kevin Johnson YYY
ktso@cuhk.edu.hk SO Kwok Tsun YYY
kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu Isaac Ji Kuo -NN
lache@math.uni-duesseldorf.de Stefan Lache YYY
laszlo@dcc.ufmg.br Laszlo de Miranda Pinto YYY
launchba@ecid.cig.mot.com Phil Launchbury YYY
lenssen@mzdmza.zdv.uni-mainz.de Matthias Dietz-Lenssen YYY
leo@cp.tn.tudelft.nl Leo Breebaart YYY
limes@straylight.engr.sgi.com Gregory L. Limes YYY
lucrezi@webaq.it Gino Lucrezi YYY
lvirden@cas.org Larry W. Virden YYY
M.S.Stewart@durham.ac.uk Mickey Stewart YY-
MarchHare@momeraths.org John D. Carmack YYY
marquez@pacbell.net Aaron Marquez NNN
marquisd@QSilverBBS.com Rich Irvine NNN
mau@beatles.cselt.stet.it Maurizio Codogno YYY
mbnx@co.intel.com Mike Northam YYY
mcrego@interserv.com Mark Crego YYY
mhkohne@moberg.com Michael Kohne YYY
mike.malveaux@mail.prostar.com Mike Malveaux YYY
mikey@itexas.net Valerie Crowe YYY
mitchell@interserv.com Popess Lilith von Fraumench YYY
mk59200@cc.tut.fi Markku Kolkka YYY
moroney@world.std.com Mike Moroney YYY
MRROWWW@aol.com Dolores Scaldini YYY
msoysal@mistik.express.net Mustafa Soysal MS57 YNY
mtpins@isca.uiowa.edu Michael T Pins YYY
mue@gsf.de Bernhard Muenzer YYY
naddy@mips.pfalz.de Christian Weisgerber YYY
Nathanael.MAKAREVITCH@ifp.fr MAKAREVITCH Nathanael YYY
nick@cimio.co.uk Nick Waterman YYY
ntenny@qualcomm.com Nathan Tenny YYY
olav@viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar NNN
ollivier.robert@eurocontrol.fr Ollivier Robert YYY
OrangeRA@aol.com Robert A. Allen YYY
otto@cc.jyu.fi Otto J. Makela YYY
patl@lcs.mit.edu Patrick J. LoPresti NNN
paxil@cancom.net Trevor Tymchuk YYY
perimath@sn.no Per I. Mathisen YY-
peter@taronga.com Peter da Silva YYY
phandaal@uic.edu Peter Schuerman Y--
phil@vision25.demon.co.uk Philip Hunt YYY
pjh1@leicester.ac.uk Pete Humble YYY
pw@cacs.usl.edu Pirawat Watanapongse YYY
ralf@ark.franken.de Ralf W. Stephan YYY
Randell.Jesup@scala.com Randell Jesup YYY
Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se Raphael Quinet YYY
Ray.Lillard@innovix.com Raymond Y. Lillard YYY
rbull@facstaff.wisc.edu R.Bull/B.Bauer YYY
rhd@wwa.com Richard H. Derr III NNY
ribwoods@execpc.com Richard B. Woods YYY
richard@pillar.turnpike.com Richard Clayton YYY
richard@tga.u-net.com Richard Gadsden YYY
rick@bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller YYY
rmcq@figment.as.utexas.edu Rebecca G. McQuitty YYY
ronnie.grant@mogur.com Ronnie Grant YYY
rra@cs.stanford.edu Russ Allbery YYY
rsc@advanced.org R. S. Camm YYY
rtuchler@ecentral.com Robert E.Tuchler YYY
rufinus@marconi.ece.wisc.edu J Rufinus YYY
saken@chardos.connix.com Scott Kenney YYY
schnarlz@voicenet.com Matt Schnierle YYY
sdi@southeast.net Frank YYY
shap.wolf@asu.edu Shapard Wolf YYY
shimonf@inter.net.il Shimon Freudenberger YYY
shmuel@os2bbs.com Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz YYY
shrao@nyx.net Shrisha Rao NNN
simon@darkmere.gen.nz Simon Lyall YYY
skaranyi@xivic.ruhr.de Wolfgang Schelongowski YYY
slk@karpes.stu.rpi.edu Simon Karpen YYY
smatsuda@molbio.med.osaka-u.ac.jp shuji matsuda YYY
smurf@smurf.noris.de Matthias Urlichs YYY
spameater@freemark.com Rich Tietjens YYY
stainles@bga.com Dwight Brown NNN
stefan.kapus@zetnet.co.uk Stefan Kapusniak YYY
sthoenna@peak.org Allen R. Scott-Thoennes YYY
stuart@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Stuart Yeates YYY
sudish@mindspring.com Sudish Joseph YYY
sugarman@world.std.com Steven Garman YYY
sypkens.smit@tip.nl Matthijs Sypkens Smit YYY
techwiz@cris.com Rob Ritter YYY
Thomas.Parmelan@efrei.fr Thomas Parmelan YYY
tresnick@excite.com Ted Resnick YYY
tskirvin@uiuc.edu Tim Skirvin YYY
twells@netcom.com Tabor J. Wells YYY
varange@crl.com Troy Varange NNN
vikas@insight.att.com Vikas Agnihotri YNY
wakelyn@pinn.net N.T. Wakelyn -NN
wiedmann@com.enst.fr Frank Wiedmann YYY
wombat@aquilagroup.com Christopher M. Conway YYY
yusuf921@uidaho.edu Syed Yusuf YYY
zollman@magicnet.magicnet.net Aaron Zollman YYY
zot@ampersand.com Mark Atwood YYY
--
Jani Patokallio <jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi>
Voting address: <voting@hut.fi>
USENET FACT: Big-8
BIG-8 hierarchies are the 8 traditional top hierarchies of the Usenet. See the following page for more