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From [email protected] Tue Feb 18 00:12:43 1992 Flags: 000000000201 From: [email protected] (Chuq Von Rospach) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.mac Subject: Call For Discussion: comp.sys.mac reorganization Date: 19 Feb 90 20:53:04 GMT Followup-To: news.groups Organization: Fictional Reality: where your dreams can come true Lines: 162 Keywords: posted   This is an official call for discussions on reorganizing the comp.sys.mac hierarchy. After much preliminary discussion about ways to deal with the overloading of comp.sys.mac, we've decided that we need to do something more than just create a new group, but instead try to reorganize the structure in a more radical way that won't require further tuning in two or three months.  NOTE: The proposal, as written, does not fully conform to current guidelines for newsgroup creation. This was done after great thought because it was felt that what needed to be done to c.s.m simply couldn't be done successfully by staying within the guidelines in a timely manner. Gene Spafford, Greg Woods and I all feel the variations are appropriate for the situation, but I also feel that this exceptions should also have the general approval of the net, so I'm calling for a survey on whether the proposal is acceptable.  PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE CALL FOR DISCUSSION AND THE PRELIMINARY PROPOSAL. If you feel the proposed voting scheme for the reorganization is appropriate or inappropriate, send mail to '[email protected]' with either a 'yes' or a 'no' to the proposal structure. If the majority of people responding to this survey vote 'yes' then the official call for votes will have the structure proposed here. If the majority of responses are negative, the proposal will be structured to match current guidelines as a series of call for votes, although that is expected to stretch the implementation time significantly. Either way, if you have an opinion about the acceptability of the proposal, please send it to me for inclusion in the survey. The results of the survey will be binding on the form of the final proposal and call for votes.  This proposal is written as a series of suggested group changes or creations. They are being sent out as a single proposal, but each group will be voted on separately. This will allow the user community to choose which sections of the proposal they want implemented, rather than forcing an all or nothing situation.   Additionally, I am proposing that, during the Call For Discussion phase we are now entering, a secondary survey for additional changes be held. If there is a group or change that you feel should be made to comp.sys.mac that isn't in this preliminary proposal, you can e-mail that suggestion to me. If I get 100 requests for a group, I will add it to the voting of the final proposal. If I get fewer than 100 requests, I'll post it in a list when the voting is finished as groups proposed for future additions, but they will not be part of the official vote. (in other words, if there is a group you want added to the final vote, you should send me e-mail requesting it AND discuss it in news.groups to convince others to do so as well.).  If the survey on the guidelines variations fails, this proposal will be restructures as a series of independent votes on one issue of the proposal at a time. The effective change is that it will take a lot longer to implement and require everyone to send in multiple votes, one for each issue, rather than a single piece of e-mail with votes covering all issues -- a lot more work over a longer time to get the same thing done.  One final note: I'm specifically ignoring comp.sources.mac and comp.binaries.mac in these proposals and focusing only on comp.sys.mac.  There have been some discussions of splitting or reorganizing c.b.m recently, but (1) I think it would be premature to place any changes to a vote at this time, and (2) I think fixing c.s.m is complex enough issue to deal with as it is without adding in the complexities of the other hierarchies. I also believe that changes to moderated groups should be organized by the moderator, so I leave these hierarchies to someone else to work with.  Please send your survey comments about the structure of this proposal (positive or negative) and requests for additional groups in this proposal to me at "[email protected]". Because of the complexity of this proposal and some personal scheduling requirements I'm running a somewhat extended discussion period: discussion of this proposal and vote counting for the surveys will run until March 17, 1990 with the call for votes being issued the week of March 19. Please route all discussion to news.groups and keep it out of c.s.m -- it's noisy enough as it is (which is the whole point of the proposal).  Now, to the reorganization proposals themselves. Remember, in the call for votes each proposal will be voted upon separately, and depending on the results of the survey there might be additional groups to be voted upon:  Proposal 1: rename comp.sys.mac to comp.sys.mac.misc. This will be in multiple stages: the creation of comp.sys.mac.misc, followed a few weeks later by the rmgroup of comp.sys.mac and the addition of a usenet alias to the new group to forward misdirected messages. This will bring c.s.m into the same standardized naming as other hierarchies, and it should also discourage some of the cross-posting between c.s.m and sub-groups that happens when people think they should put it in the parent group just in case.  Proposal 2: Creation of comp.sys.mac.os. This will be for discussion of Macintosh system software -- the system, finder, multifinder, CDEVs, INITs and other Apple and third party Operating System software and its extensions.  Proposal 3: Creation of comp.sys.mac.appl. This will be for discussion of  Macintosh applications. The naming of this group has created a fair amount of discussion, ranging between app and applications. I've chosen appl for a couple of reasons: (1) for people with a knowledge of Macintosh this term won't be ambiguous, since it is the signature byte of applications (it should also be obvious enough in context to not be ambiguous to complete novices); and (2) I see this as the root of a sub-hierarchy, and the thought of typing comp.sys.mac.applications.wordprocessing is painful and I think it would be unacceptable to many users -- the shorter name will encourage future expansions rather than discourage them.  Proposal 4: renaming comp.sys.mac.hypercard to comp.sys.mac.appl.hypercard. To standardize naming in the new scheme. Technically, since Apple computer considers Hypercard system software it should be c.s.m.os.hypercard, but I don't believe most users agree with that thinking.  Proposal 5: creation of comp.sys.mac.wanted. A place for the "I'm missing part five of..." or "I need a program that does..." or "Where can I get a good price on..." messages. There was some discussion of creating a sister group c.s.m.forsale, but for sale messages really should be encouraged to go into a regional group and not a net-wide group.  Welcome to comp.sys.mac document: In parallel with this proposal, Geoff Allen <[email protected]> is writing an "introduction to the comp.sys.mac hierarchy document. This document will be posted on a regular basis (and updated when needed) and will document the different groups in the hierarchy and what type of messages should be posted where. It or a  sister posting will also include answers to common questions. This posting should also help reduce cross-posting, confusion and the constant re-introduction of certain topics.  Rejected proposals: This is a short list of proposals considered that I've rejected and why:  o c.s.m.fonts: discussion should be in comp.fonts o c.s.m.desktop: desktop publishing discussion should be in comp.text.desktop o c.s.m.d (or c.s.m.futures): I wasn't convinced it was a viable long-term 	discussion. With the proper splitting of the other topics, it should 	fit appropriately in c.s.m.misc. talk.politics.apple was also 	considered. o c.s.m.viruses: discussion should be in comp.virus o c.s.m.reviews: there isn't enough traffic to justify, and it would  	have to be moderated to prevent lots of noise. o c.s.m.{db,comm,spreadsheet,wordprocessing,et al}: these should be 	considered as sub-groups of the c.s.m.appl hierarchy and we should 	wait and see how traffic in that area works out before considering 	splitting it further.   That's it. Five proposals, two renamed groups and three creations (two of which should be considered roots for sub-hierarchies that can be created as needed). Again, please respond to the survey about the format of this proposal, and if you have groups you feel ought to be added to the proposal. All discussion should take place in news.groups, not in the c.s.m group.  thanks to: Cory Kempf, D. K. Smith, Dan Veditz, Dave Smith, Gail Zacharias, Geoff Allen, John Macdonald, John R. Delaney, Larry E. Kollar, Mark M Mehl, Piper Keairnes, Randy Futor, capmkt!bandy, [email protected], [email protected], among others, for their feedback, suggestions and advice on building this proposal.  chuq   --   Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   [email protected]   <+>   [This is myself speaking]  Rumour has it that Larry Wall, author of RN, is a finalist in the race for the Nobel Peace Prize for his invention of the kill file. From [email protected] Tue Feb 18 00:30:38 1992 Flags: 000000000201 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 90 20:18:57 -0800 From: Chuq Von Rospach <[email protected]> Subject: CALL FOR VOTES: reorganization of comp.sys.mac Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.mac Reply-to: [email protected] Followup-to: poster Keywords: posted  [This is a bit late, so some of the dates may be wrong.  I am posting  this announcement at Wed Mar 14 17:59:56 PST 1990. Especially if you  read on of the groups involved, please read this proposal carefully  before taking action. In particular, note that a number of mac groups  AREN'T moving.-eliot]  ---- This is the official Call for Votes on the Comp.Sys.Mac hierarchy reorganization. Votes will be taken from the date posted on news.announce.newgroups through April 6, 1990 or for 21 days from posting, whichever is longer. This vote was mailed to news.announce.newgroup on March 12, 1990.  Please vote on each proposal separately. You may vote 'yes', 'no' or 'abstain/no preference' (or use whatever terms you want for these as long as they're non-ambiguous). Please use the following format:  Proposal 1: abstain Proposal 2: abstain Proposal 3: abstain Proposal 5: abstain Proposal 6: abstain Proposal 7: abstain Proposal 9: abstain  Mail your votes to '[email protected]'. I will count them and report back to the net on the results of each separate voting item. Votes on each item will be counted by the standard 'delta-100' guidelines.   These proposals are being voted on:  Proposal 1: rename comp.sys.mac to comp.sys.mac.misc. This will be in multiple stages: the creation of comp.sys.mac.misc, followed a month later by the rmgroup of comp.sys.mac and the addition of a usenet alias to the new group to forward misdirected messages. This will bring c.s.m into the same standardized naming as other hierarchies, and it should also discourage some of the cross-posting between c.s.m and sub-groups that happens when people think they should put it in the parent group just in case.  Proposal 2: Creation of comp.sys.mac.system. This will be for discussion of Macintosh system software -- the system, finder, multifinder, CDEVs, INITs and other Apple and third party system software and extensions.  Proposal 3: Creation of comp.sys.mac.apps. This will be for discussion of Macintosh applications -- word processors, databases, etc -- that do not have a more appropriate group in the hierarchy (for instance, c.s.m.programmer for development tools, c.s.m.hypercard for hypercard, the proposed c.s.m.comm for telecommunication programs)  Proposal 4: [[cancelled. was c.s.m.apps.hierarchy.  With no .apps sub-hierarchy, proposal is obsolete]]  Proposal 5: creation of comp.sys.mac.wanted. A place for the "I'm missing part five of..." or "I need a program that does..." or "Where can I get a good price on..." messages.  Proposal 6: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.games. A group for the discussion of Macintosh computer games.  Proposal 7: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.comm. A group for the discussion of telecommunication and networking software and programs: Red Ryder, Microphone, Appleshare, etc.  Proposal 8: [[Cancelled. Was c.s.m.virus]]  Proposal 9: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.announce, to be created moderated. Moderator to be appointed at some future time. Designed to be a low-volume, high-content group for distribution of information, regular postings (like the "where to find...", and "introduction to comp.sys.mac" documents, postings like virus alerts and other forms of information (product announcements? press releases?) to be determined.  No changes: comp.sys.mac.programmer, comp.sys.mac.digest, comp.sys.mac.hardware, comp.sys.mac.hypercard.   From [email protected] Tue Feb 18 00:35:46 1992 Flags: 000000000201 From: [email protected] (Chuq Von Rospach) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups Subject: comp.sys.mac.reorg: mass acknowledgement 3/19/90 Date: 19 Mar 90 16:50:16 GMT Organization: Fictional Reality: where your dreams can come true Followup-to: news.groups Keywords: posted   Here is a list of all addresses voting on the c.s.m reorg as of 3/19/90 (AM). If you sent me your vote and it's not here, please contact me. Note that I haven't checked for duplicate or invalid addresses or counted votes yet.  chuq ---- From: [email protected] (Galen Gisler, Los Alamos, Space Plasma Physics) From: 6600pete%[email protected] (GurgleKat [Pete Gontier]) From: [email protected] (Brian Matthews) From: [email protected] (Tim Aanerud) From: Adele Evans <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: [email protected] (John O'Malley) From: Alfred von Campe  16-Mar-1990 1348 <[email protected]> From: Amanda Walker <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Tom Doehne) From: amdcad!pepsi!cdr (Carl Rigney) From: ames!pacbell!ptsfa!fab From: [email protected] (Peter Rauch) From: [email protected] (Stephen R. Anderson) From: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Anders Wallgren x7652) From: "Andreas J. Guelzow" <[email protected]> From: Andrew Diseker <[email protected]> From: Andy Malis <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Andrew D. Christian) From: [email protected] (Andrew Partan) From: Bard Bloom <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Bruce Barnett) From: Barrett P. Eynon <[email protected]> From: Bart Sears <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (George Williams) From: [email protected] From: Bengt Larsson <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Professor Robert C. Berwick) From: Bolo <[email protected]> From: Brad Hochberg <[email protected]> From: Brad Miller <[email protected]> From: -Brian Diehm <[email protected]> From: "Brian J. Papa" <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Brian Sturgill) From: [email protected] (Eric Brunelle) From: Bryan Wolf <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Bryce Nesbitt) From: capmkt!bandy (Guru Drew) From: Carl Jeffrey Otto <[email protected]> From: Catherine A. Foulston <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: charles he hemstreet <[email protected]> From: Charlie Johnson <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Chip Rosenthal) From: Chris Ranch <[email protected]> From: Christopher Tate <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (C J Silverio) From: [email protected] (Christopher Davis) From: claris!peirce (Michael Peirce) From: [email protected] (Dubois Charles L) From: [email protected] (COHEN MATTHEW I) From: [email protected] (Andrew M. Cohill) From: [email protected] (Craig Ruff) From: "D. W. James" <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Stefan Lindmark) From: [email protected] From: Dan Dlugose <[email protected]> From: Dave Glowacki <[email protected]> From: Dave Smith <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Larry E. Kollar) From: [email protected] (David Elliott) From: [email protected] (Dan Costin) From: decwrl!decvax!rochester!cci632!ph (Pete Hoch) From: Denis Rachal <[email protected]> From: Dennis Linse <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: Dinesh K. Prabhu <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Tom Dowdy) From: [email protected] From: DSF2 <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Dan Veditz) From: EARL WILLIAMS <[email protected]> From: Eiji Hirai <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (ethan miller) From: [email protected] From: [email protected] From: Eric Johnson  From: [email protected] (Eric Smith) From: Erik Bertelsen <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Elliott S Frank) From: ethz!mrys From: frame!figment!pcc (Camden Clarke) From: "Frank Callaham" [email protected]> From: "Frank D. Malczewski" <[email protected]> From: Frank J. Schima <[email protected]> From: Frank W. Peters <[email protected]> From: "Frederic W. Brehm" <[email protected]> From: Geoff Allen <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (George Nincehelser 5-6544) From: [email protected] (Gilbert Harman) From: [email protected]  (Gil [email protected]@Banyan) From: "G.W. Somner CMP RA" <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Gail Zacharias) From: [email protected] (Glenn Reid) From: hoptoad!tim (Tim Maroney) From: Howard Haruo Fukuda <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Herb Poppe) From: [email protected] (Igor Steinberg) From: Jack Campin [email protected]> From: [email protected] (Nick Jackiw) From: [email protected] (Jaime Villacorte) From: James Aslanis <[email protected]> From: "James E. Wilson" <[email protected]> From: "Jason W. Anthony" <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Jeff Rubin) From: [email protected] (jeff) From: Jeff Ersoff <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Jeff Leyser) From: Jeffrey James Bryan Carpenter <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Philip Jeuck) From: [email protected] (John F. Haugh II) From: [email protected] (Joe Keane) From: [email protected] (Jeffri H Frontz) From: "jill holly hansen" <[email protected]> From: Jim Matthews <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: Joe Block <[email protected]> From: Joel B Levin <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Johannes van Zeijts) From: "John R. Delaney" <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (John Starta) From: Jonathan King <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Jon Buller) From: Jorgen Rask <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: [email protected] From: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Kevin Rushforth) From: Keith Decker <[email protected]> From: Keith M Andress <[email protected]> From: Kevin Whitley <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Rick Genter) From: [email protected] (Andy Y.A. Kuo) From: kurt kohler <[email protected]> From: L L Campbell <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: Len Schwer <[email protected]> From: Leo Breebaart <[email protected]> From: "Leonore A. Findsen" <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Le Nguyen) From: Linda Kesselring <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Curt Lindner) From: [email protected] (Tom Lippincott) From: [email protected] (Larry Rosenstein) From: [email protected] (Mail Delivery Subsystem) From: [email protected] From: Margret Buckley <[email protected]> From: Mark Bartelt <[email protected]> From: Mark Kolb <[email protected]> From: Matt Mora <[email protected]> From: Matt Rollefson <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Matthew Lewis) From: Matthias Urlichs <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Michael C. Berch) From: [email protected] From: [email protected]@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu (Mark M Mehl) From: [email protected] (Sigurd Meldal) From: Melissa Wauford <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: Michael Crawford <[email protected]> From: "Michael D. Ketchen" <[email protected]> From: Michael J Kobb <[email protected]> From: Michael Poston <[email protected]> From: Michael Tod Rose <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Mike Wexler) From: <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Michael Thomas Niehaus) From: [email protected] (Michael McClennen) From: [email protected] (Michel Lamarche) From: [email protected] (Skip Montanaro) From: [email protected] (Jeff Meyer) From: [email protected] (Mark Pease) From: [email protected] From: [email protected] From: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Aureliano Buendia) From: [email protected] (Neil Murray) From: netcom!chrisj (Christopher Jewell) From: [email protected] (Michael Newbery) From: Nick Crossley <[email protected]> From: Nigel Perry <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Arthur David Olson) From: [email protected] (Larry G. Robinson) From: Noah Price  From: [email protected] From: Norman Goodger <[email protected]> From: "Norman William Franke, III" <[email protected]> From: <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (B. S. Oplinger) From: "Pablo Fernicola" <[email protected]> From: Paul Nakada <[email protected]> From: Per Abrahamsen <[email protected]> From: Peter M|ller <[email protected]> From: Phil Gross <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Peter Amstein) From: [email protected] (Kurt W. Hirchert) From: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Peter Poorman) From: quack!mrapple (Nick Sayer) From: [email protected] From: ralph%[email protected] From: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Robert A. Zeh) From: RD Francis <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Roger Roles) From: Reid Ellis [email protected]> From: Rich Kulawiec <[email protected]> From: Richard H. Miller <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Magnus Rimvall) From: [email protected] (Rick Holzgrafe) From: [email protected] From: Ronald N. Voss  From: [email protected] (SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR) From: Ross M Mather [email protected]> From: "Ross Yahnke, MACC" <[email protected]> From: [email protected] From: Samuel Lam <[email protected]> From: Scott Robert Anderson <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Scott Hazen Mueller) From: [email protected] (Christopher E. Shull) From: [email protected] (Rich Siegel) From: sis!doug (doug berry) From: [email protected] (Spencer W. Thomas) From: sppy00!glf (Greg Feldman-Hill) From: Stephen N. Spencer<[email protected]> From: Steve Ly <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Don Stuart) From: [email protected] (Chip Salzenberg) From: Timothy VanFosson <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Tom McCabe) From: Tom D Gedeon [email protected]> From: Tom Haapanen <[email protected]> From: trigraph!john (John Chew) From: [email protected] From: UCLAPP Sysop <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Vladimir G. Ivanovic) From: [email protected] (Walter Vogel - Biochem) From: [email protected] From: William Wisner <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Jim Wishart) From: [email protected] (Chris Younger) --   Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   [email protected]   <+>   [This is myself speaking]  All spirits are enslaved which serve things evil -- Shelley   From [email protected] Tue Feb 18 00:37:18 1992 Flags: 000000000201 From: [email protected] (Chuq Von Rospach) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.mac Subject: Second call for votes: comp.sys.mac reorg Date: 22 Mar 90 19:06:51 GMT Followup-To: poster Organization: Fictional Reality: where your dreams can come true Keywords: posted   This is the second official Call for Votes on the Comp.Sys.Mac hierarchy reorganization. Votes will be taken until April 6, 1990.  Please vote on each proposal separately. You may vote 'yes', 'no' or 'abstain/no preference' (or use whatever terms you want for these as long as they're non-ambiguous). Please use the following format:  Proposal 1: abstain Proposal 2: abstain Proposal 3: abstain Proposal 5: abstain Proposal 6: abstain Proposal 7: abstain Proposal 9: abstain  Mail your votes to '[email protected]'. I will count them and report back to the net on the results of each separate voting item. Votes on each item will be counted by the standard 'delta-100' guidelines.   These proposals are being voted on:  Proposal 1: rename comp.sys.mac to comp.sys.mac.misc. This will be in multiple stages: the creation of comp.sys.mac.misc, followed a month later by the rmgroup of comp.sys.mac and the addition of a usenet alias to the new group to forward misdirected messages. This will bring c.s.m into the same standardized naming as other hierarchies, and it should also discourage some of the cross-posting between c.s.m and sub-groups that happens when people think they should put it in the parent group just in case.  Proposal 2: Creation of comp.sys.mac.system. This will be for discussion of Macintosh system software -- the system, finder, multifinder, CDEVs, INITs and other Apple and third party system software and extensions.  Proposal 3: Creation of comp.sys.mac.apps. This will be for discussion of Macintosh applications -- word processors, databases, etc -- that do not have a more appropriate group in the hierarchy (for instance, c.s.m.programmer for development tools, c.s.m.hypercard for hypercard, the proposed c.s.m.comm for telecommunication programs)  Proposal 4: [[cancelled. was c.s.m.apps.hierarchy.  With no .apps sub-hierarchy, proposal is obsolete]]  Proposal 5: creation of comp.sys.mac.wanted. A place for the "I'm missing part five of..." or "I need a program that does..." or "Where can I get a good price on..." messages.  Proposal 6: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.games. A group for the discussion of Macintosh computer games.  Proposal 7: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.comm. A group for the discussion of telecommunication and networking software and programs: Red Ryder, Microphone, Appleshare, etc.  Proposal 8: [[Cancelled. Was c.s.m.virus]]  Proposal 9: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.announce, to be created moderated. Moderator to be appointed at some future time. Designed to be a low-volume, high-content group for distribution of information, regular postings (like the "where to find...", and "introduction to comp.sys.mac" documents, postings like virus alerts and other forms of information (product announcements? press releases?) to be determined.  No changes: comp.sys.mac.programmer, comp.sys.mac.digest, comp.sys.mac.hardware, comp.sys.mac.hypercard.  --   Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   [email protected]   <+>   [This is myself speaking]  He hasn't an enemy in the world, and none of his friends like him. -- Wilde   From [email protected] Tue Feb 18 00:41:10 1992 Flags: 000000000201 From: [email protected] (Chuq Von Rospach) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.mac Subject: Final Call for Votes: comp.sys.mac reorg Date: 28 Mar 90 15:43:00 GMT Followup-To: news.groups Organization: Fictional Reality: where your dreams can come true Keywords: posted   This is the final call for votes for the comp.sys.mac reorg. Voting will continue until April 6. Please e-mail votes to [email protected]  Please vote on each proposal separately. You may vote 'yes', 'no' or 'abstain/no preference' (or use whatever terms you want for these as long as they're non-ambiguous). Please use the following format:  Proposal 1: abstain Proposal 2: abstain Proposal 3: abstain Proposal 5: abstain Proposal 6: abstain Proposal 7: abstain Proposal 9: abstain  Mail your votes to '[email protected]'. I will count them and report back to the net on the results of each separate voting item. Votes on each item will be counted by the standard 'delta-100' guidelines.   These proposals are being voted on:  Proposal 1: rename comp.sys.mac to comp.sys.mac.misc. This will be in multiple stages: the creation of comp.sys.mac.misc, followed a month later by the rmgroup of comp.sys.mac and the addition of a usenet alias to the new group to forward misdirected messages. This will bring c.s.m into the same standardized naming as other hierarchies, and it should also discourage some of the cross-posting between c.s.m and sub-groups that happens when people think they should put it in the parent group just in case.  Proposal 2: Creation of comp.sys.mac.system. This will be for discussion of Macintosh system software -- the system, finder, multifinder, CDEVs, INITs and other Apple and third party system software and extensions.  Proposal 3: Creation of comp.sys.mac.apps. This will be for discussion of Macintosh applications -- word processors, databases, etc -- that do not have a more appropriate group in the hierarchy (for instance, c.s.m.programmer for development tools, c.s.m.hypercard for hypercard, the proposed c.s.m.comm for telecommunication programs)  Proposal 4: [[cancelled. was c.s.m.apps.hierarchy.  With no .apps sub-hierarchy, proposal is obsolete]]  Proposal 5: creation of comp.sys.mac.wanted. A place for the "I'm missing part five of..." or "I need a program that does..." or "Where can I get a good price on..." messages.  Proposal 6: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.games. A group for the discussion of Macintosh computer games.  Proposal 7: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.comm. A group for the discussion of telecommunication and networking software and programs: Red Ryder, Microphone, Appleshare, etc.  Proposal 8: [[Cancelled. Was c.s.m.virus]]  Proposal 9: Creation of group comp.sys.mac.announce, to be created moderated. Moderator to be appointed at some future time. Designed to be a low-volume, high-content group for distribution of information, regular postings (like the "where to find...", and "introduction to comp.sys.mac" documents, postings like virus alerts and other forms of information (product announcements? press releases?) to be determined.  No changes: comp.sys.mac.programmer, comp.sys.mac.digest, comp.sys.mac.hardware, comp.sys.mac.hypercard.  --   Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   [email protected]   <+>   [This is myself speaking]  He hasn't an enemy in the world, and none of his friends like him. -- Wilde   
 
USENET FACT: Flaming
Flaming is the hostile interaction between multiple Usenet users.
 
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