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General ( comp.graphics )

From [email protected] Wed Oct 26 12:58:30 1994 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Hollasch) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,alt.graphics.pixutils,comp.graphics.algorithms,comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.visualization,comp.graphics.research Subject: RFD: comp.graphics reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 26 Oct 1994 10:33:30 -0400 Organization: acm.org Lines: 389 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5828 news.groups:121672 comp.graphics:63565 alt.graphics.pixutils:8671 comp.graphics.algorithms:9621 comp.graphics.animation:12835 comp.graphics.visualization:6711 comp.graphics.research:612      In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, I am proposing a reorganization of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.      This proposal involves several steps -- it's a large task, but I believe the result will be a more organized and cohesive computer graphics newsgroup space.  In addition, we'll be able to decide now how we want the namespace to expand, rather than dickering over it each time a new newsgroup is introduced.  If you care at all about the organization of computer graphics newsgroups, I urge you to review this proposal.      Please note that in order for a common discussion of this proposal to take place, followups to this proposal are directed to news.groups.  I have set the Followup-To: line to point to news.groups automatically, and suggest that readers interested in this discussion subscribe to news.groups for the duration of this discussion.  This is also necessary because of the number of newsgroups involved in this proposal -- if you want to be heard, reply to news.groups.   === The Affected Newsgroups ===      alt.graphics.pixutils         Discussion of graphical images utilities.      comp.graphics         The original computer graphics newsgroup.  Currently dedicated to         miscellaneous discussion.      comp.graphics.avs         The AVS scientific visualization application.      comp.graphics.data-explorer         The IBM Visualization Data Explorer software product (commonly known         as DX).  Created August 1993.      comp.graphics.explorer         The Iris Explorer software product.  Created June 1992.      comp.graphics.gnuplot         The GNU plotting software application.  Created September 1992.      comp.graphics.opengl         The OpenGL Application Programmer's Interface.  Created September         1992.      comp.graphics.packages.softimage         The SoftImage software package.  Waiting until the hierarchy is         decided.      comp.graphics.raytracing         Mix of raytracing methods and programs.  Created March 1993.      comp.graphics.rendering.renderman         The RenderMan standard, shading language, etc.  Currently in RFD.      comp.graphics.research         Research in the field of computer graphics.      comp.graphics.visualization         Scientific visualization issues & methods.      comp.soft-sys.wavefront         The Wavefront software package.  Created November 1993.      comp.soft-sys.khoros         A "complete data exploration and software development environment".      comp.windows.x.pex         The PEX protocol and API.  Created January 1992.   === The Proposed Hierarchy ===      -  Already in progress.     +  Newsgroups to be created after this reorganization.      comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group         algorithms         animation         api/                    / New hierarchy     +       inventor            / To be created later; Open Inventor             misc                / New newsgroup             opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl             pex                 / From comp.windows.x.pex         apps/                   / New hierarchy             misc                / New newsgroup             gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot     +       pixutils            / To be created later; image proc. apps             raytracers          / Split from comp.graphics.raytracing     +   file-formats            / To be created later; image file formats         misc                    / From comp.graphics     +   modeling                / To be created later; object modeling         packages/               / New hierarchy             avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs     -       alias               / In CFV             data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer             iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer             khoros              / From comp.soft-sys.khoros     -       lightwave           / In CFV     +       softimage           / To be created later; SOFTIMAGE package             wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront         rendering/              / New hierarchy             misc                / New newsgroup     -       renderman           / In RFD             raytracing          / Split from comp.graphics.raytracing         visualization   === How Do We Get There From Here? ===      The first subhierarchy under comp.graphics - comp.graphics.packages - is already under implicit vote in the comp.graphics.packages.lightwave, comp.graphics.packages.alias, and comp.graphics.packages.kpt newsgroups.      This proposal addresses other subhierarchies under comp.graphics to be created, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies.  It also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy.      After the hierarchy is established, additional new newsgroups will be proposed and voted on.  These are included here in order to provide the reader with a full overview of the final goal.  I will comment on the suggested newsgroups below.      That said, here are the guts of the current proposal:   1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc      The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a     couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered     with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it     was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics     hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to     comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a     particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them     from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we     follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.     This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place     to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will     also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.  2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api      It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application     Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a     variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEX, to     less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.  2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc      This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including     API design discussion in general.  I propose the charter read as     follows:      << comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer     graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in     any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a     discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and     implementations of computer graphics API's in general. >>  2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl      This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.  2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pex      I think that a discussion of PEX fits better in the computer     graphics space alongside other graphics API's such as OpenGL.  PEX     discussion is somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.     Another possibility is to split comp.windows.x.pex so that protocol     discussion remains in comp.windows.x.pex, but API discussion goes to     comp.graphics.api.pex.  However, it doesn't look like the newsgroup is     large enough to justify a split.  3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps      Although the packages hierarchy will be established soon, we should have     a place for software that is not a package.  Packages usually denote a     bundled collection of modules, and usually are released by a single     commercial source.  A lot of graphics software does not fit into this     description; examples include gnuplot, POV-RAY, paint programs, and the     like.  This hierarchy allows for discussion of particular applications,     groups of applications, or computer graphics applications in general.  3b) Create comp.graphics.apps.misc      This would be the "computer graphics applications in general" group.  It     might also address issues like interchange standards and queries for     particular graphics tools and software.  I propose the charter read as     follows:      << comp.graphics.apps.misc is intended for discussion of miscellaneous     computer graphics application software.  This includes availability,     compilation, usage, and inquiries of existing applications, plus the     design, concerns and implementation of computer graphics applications in     general.  It is also intended as a forum for applications not directly     addressed in any other comp.graphics.apps newsgroup. >>  3c) Rename comp.graphics.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot      Move the gnuplot newsgroup into the new applications hierarchy.  3d) Move raytracer-specific discussion to comp.graphics.apps.raytracers      The comp.graphics.raytracing group is aimed ``primarily at the user     level'' (from the charter).  It's a mix of raytracing application     discussion and raytracing theory, and also includes discussions of     radiosity and other rendering methods (also from the charter).  I     propose that comp.graphics.apps.raytracers be created to hold     discussions of raytracing software and applications specifically - where     to get it, what to do with it, examples of usage, problems with     installation or implementation, and so on.     Discussion of the theory and implementation of the raytracing algorithm     will be diverted into .rendering.raytracing, described below.      Using the original charter written by Dave Cornejo, I propose that the     comp.graphics.apps.raytracers read as follows:      << comp.graphics.apps.raytracers is dedicated to the discussion of ray     tracing software, tools and methods for generating raytraced     3d graphics.  For example:  ray tracing software (POV-Ray, Vivid, etc.),       modeling software *specifically* for generating ray tracing      scenes - such as Moray and POVcad - (discussion of general modeling     software, CAD, etc., is not appropriate), and miscellaneous utilities,     methods and issues.  Other issues that might be discussed include     converting between formats, generating complex scene information,     designing textures, and creating & using fonts.      Binaries should not be posted to the group.  Pictures should be posted     to alt.binaries.pictures.misc and executables to the appropriate     comp.binaries group.  Scene description files ("source") may be posted     to the group.      Discussion of raytracing theory and implementation is directed to     comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing. >>  4a) Establish comp.graphics.packages      I believe that this will happen anyway, like it or not.  I've held a     straw poll on this, and got a response of eleven readers, the majority     favoring a .packages hierarchy.  I think a stronger conclusion is that     most folks don't care WHAT it's called.  =^)  If     comp.graphics.packages.alias, comp.graphics.packages.kpt, or     comp.graphics.packages.lightwave pass (all under vote currently), then     the hierarchy is implicitly created anyway.  4b) Rename comp.graphics.avs to comp.graphics.packages.avs 4c) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer      Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.packages hierarchy.  4d) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.packages.iris-explorer      In keeping with the spirit of the comp.graphics.packages hierarchy.  The     name change would also help distinguish this group from the     comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group.  4e) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.packages.wavefront      With Alias and SoftImage newsgroups in comp.graphics.packages.*, it     makes sense to move the Wavefront group to keep these things together,     since they're all the same sort of package.  4f) Rename comp.soft-sys.khoros to comp.graphics.packages.khoros          I initially overlooked this newsgroup because I was not familiar with     it, and it was suggested that I include this newsgroup in my     reorganization.  My gut feeling is that it's a sci-viz tool similar to     AVS or Explorer, and so should be considered with the other packages of     this nature.  I'd like readers of this newsgroup to comment on whether     they feel this is an appropriate move.  5a) Establish comp.graphics.rendering hierarchy      I'm proposing three newsgroups under this hierarchy, which will be     targeted for newsgroups that deal with producing graphics images.  5b) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc      For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including     hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing     different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  I     propose the following charter:      << The comp.graphics.rendering.misc newsgroup is intended for the     discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in     a comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for     comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus     raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &     radiosity). >>  5c) Create comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      This newsgroup allows for a diversion of raytracing theory and     implementation from the proposed comp.graphics.apps.raytracers newsgroup     (renamed from comp.graphics.raytracing).  This group will be targeted     for discussion of raytracing theory, and for those who write raytracers     of their own.  It might also serve as a forum for discussing variations     on raytracing (ray-casting, radiance-like software, and so on).      I propose the following charter:      << The comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing newsgroup is intended for the     discussion of the raytracing algorithm, implementing raytracers, and     comparison of various implementation schemes and methods.  It is also     intended as a forum of schemes associated with raytracing, such as     spatial subdivision, implicit-surface speedups, and Monte-Carlo     methods. >>   6) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.      The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,     for about two years now.  With the creation of the     comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused     newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs     that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've     tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename     this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.  Although an odd approach     (as opposed to simply removing the group), this directs traffic that     might have gone to the research newsgroup to the algorithms newsgroup     (which already exists).  There is also precedent for such a strategy.   === Possible Future Newsgroups ===      The following are the newsgroups I think should be discussed and possibly created AFTER the reorganization is completed.  They are presented here only to give the reader an idea of the final goal, and to provide context for some of the moves outlined above.  comp.graphics.api.inventor     This newsgroup failed almost six months ago, and involved a dispute     regarding a proposed hierarchy called comp.graphics.library.  This will     be up for re-discussion again in mid-November.  comp.graphics.pixutils     Pixel utilities (image manipulation software) are an important topic in     computer graphics, and are often discussed in the comp.graphics     newsgroup anyway.  This topic is currently discussed in     alt.graphics.pixutils.  I think that we would be well-served to     incorporate this discussion into the comp.graphics hierarchy.  comp.graphics.file-formats     A significant portion of the comp.graphics newsgroup has always been     devoted to discussion of graphics file-formats - identifying them,     reading them, writing them, and converting them.  I think it's time for a     dedicated newsgroup for this topic.  comp.graphics.modeling     Since we have an animation group, and I'm proposing a rendering     hierarchy, why not fill it out with a modeling newsgroup?  Another     possibility is to create comp.graphics.modeling.misc.  comp.graphics.packages.softimage     This newsgroup has been suggested already, and fits in with the Alias     and Wavefront newsgroups.  It is currently on hold until the packages     hierarchy is established.   ===  What Now?  ===      This proposal is in RFD (Request For Discussion).  This means that it is put forth to test for support/opposition, and for the proponents of the proposal to "hammer out the kinks" before it is put to a vote in the CFV (Call For Votes).  Now is the time for you to comment, object, or question the proposal.  It's my job to incorporate the suggestions, comments and opinions so that the proposal reflects the consensus of the readers (and hence has the best shot at passing).      I've presented this proposal as a comprehensive scheme, rather than a series of well-defined phases.  My motivation is that I want to present a complete and comprehensive picture of what I have in mind.  If most folks would prefer, we could proceed with a sequence of well-defined stages (e.g. the api hierarchy, the removal of comp.graphics.research, the apps hierarchy, creating comp.graphics.file-formats, et cetera).  However, I think we are better served to discuss the reorganization as a whole.      I expect this proposal to generate a great deal of discussion.  I've developed a rather flame-resistant hide over the years, so have at me.  For the most part, though, I'd like to see a civil and thoughtful discussion about this so that ideas and comments can flow freely.                                          Steve Hollasch, [email protected]  From [email protected] Sun Feb 12 22:47:12 1995 Status: RO Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Hollasch) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing Subject: RFD: comp.graphics reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:23:00 -0500 Organization: none Lines: 394 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: is1.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6285 news.groups:134124 comp.graphics:70825 comp.graphics.packages.alias:1463 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:2634 comp.graphics.raytracing:10361  === Summary ===      This RFD continues a discussion initiated last fall concerning the reorganization of the comp.graphics hierarchy.  It involves most of the existing groups under comp.graphics, and several others such as comp.soft-sys.wavefront and comp.windows.x.pex.  Also included here is a summary of the results of the straw poll regarding the establishment of a comp.graphics.packages and/or a comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.   === Introduction ===      In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, I am proposing a reorganization of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.      This proposal involves several steps -- it's a large task, but I believe the result will be a more organized and cohesive computer graphics newsgroup space.  In addition, we'll be able to decide now how we want the namespace to expand, rather than dickering over it each time a new newsgroup is introduced.  If you care at all about the organization of computer graphics newsgroups, I urge you to review this proposal.      Please note that in order for a common discussion of this proposal to take place, followups to this proposal are directed to news.groups.  I have set the Followup-To: line to point to news.groups automatically, and suggest that readers interested in this discussion subscribe to news.groups for the duration of this discussion.      I'd also like to apologize here for the delay between this post and the previous ones.  By way of explanation, I got laid off, looked for a new job, found one, went on vacation, went away for Christmas, moved to Washington, started the job without any sort of net connection, finally patched one together, and am still deep in the process of settling in.  I am determined to keep things moving this time -- thanks to everybody for hanging in there.   === The Straw Poll Results ===      The straw poll sent out last fall asked which of the following options was preferred:          (a)  Establish a comp.graphics.packages hierarchy to contain all 	     discussion of CG software packages and applications.  	(b)  Establish a comp.graphics.apps hierarchy to contain all 	     discussion of CG software packages and applications.  	(c)  Establish both comp.graphics.packages and comp.graphics.apps, 	     and use whichever is deemed most appropriate on a group-by-group 	     basis.          (d)  Other.      There were a total of 39 votes, broken down as follows:          19 voted to use comp.graphics.apps. 	 8 voted to use comp.graphics.packages. 	 8 voted to use both. 	 3 voted for no change (?).          1 voted to use comp.graphics.app.      As a result of this vote, the CG reorg will also propose to move newsgroups currently located under the .packages hierarchy into the new .apps hierarchy.   === The Affected Newsgroups ===      alt.graphics.pixutils         Discussion of graphical images utilities.      comp.graphics         The original computer graphics newsgroup.  Currently dedicated to         miscellaneous discussion.      comp.graphics.apps.softimage         The SoftImage software package.  Waiting until the hierarchy is         decided.      comp.graphics.avs         The AVS scientific visualization application.      comp.graphics.data-explorer         The IBM Visualization Data Explorer software product (commonly known         as DX).      comp.graphics.explorer         The Iris Explorer software product.      comp.graphics.gnuplot         The plotting software application.      comp.graphics.opengl         The OpenGL Application Programmer's Interface.      comp.graphics.packages.alias         Newly created; dedicated to Alias software.      comp.graphics.packages.lightwave     	Newly created; dedicated to Lightwave-3D software.      comp.graphics.raytracing         Mix of raytracing methods and programs.      comp.graphics.research         Research in the field of computer graphics.      comp.soft-sys.wavefront         Wavefront software.      comp.windows.x.pex         The PEX protocol and API.   === The Proposed Hierarchy ===      + Candidate newsgroups (not in this proposal)      comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group         algorithms         animation         api/                    / New hierarchy     +       inventor            / Could be created later; Open Inventor             misc                / New newsgroup             opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl             pex                 / From comp.windows.x.pex         apps/                   / New hierarchy 	    alias               / Alias software, from .packages.alias 	    avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs             data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer             iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer             gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot             lightwave           / From .packages.lightwave     +       pixutils            / To be created later; image proc. apps             raytracers          / Split from comp.graphics.raytracing     +       softimage           / To be created later; SOFTIMAGE package             wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront     +   file-formats            / To be created later; image file formats         misc                    / From comp.graphics     +   modeling                / To be created later; object modeling         rendering/              / New hierarchy             misc                / New newsgroup             renderman           / In RFD             raytracing          / Split from comp.graphics.raytracing         visualization   === How Do We Get There From Here? ===      This proposal addresses the creation of subhierarchies under comp.graphics, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies. It also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy.      After the hierarchy is established, additional new newsgroups will be proposed and voted on.  These are included here in order to provide the reader with a full overview of the final goal, and are really only intended to give the reader a sense of what this proposal is all about.  I will comment on the suggested newsgroups below.      That said, here are the guts of the current proposal:   1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc      The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a     couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered     with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it     was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics     hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to     comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a     particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them     from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we     follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.     This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place     to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will     also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.  2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api      It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application     Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a     variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEX, to     less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.  2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc      This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including     API design discussion in general.  I propose the charter read as     follows:      << comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer     graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in     any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a     discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and     implementations of computer graphics API's in general. >>  2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl      This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.  2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pex      I think that a discussion of PEX fits better in the computer     graphics space alongside other graphics API's such as OpenGL.  PEX     discussion is somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.     Another possibility is to split comp.windows.x.pex so that protocol     discussion remains in comp.windows.x.pex, but API discussion goes to     comp.graphics.api.pex.  However, it doesn't look like the newsgroup is     large enough to justify such a split.  3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps      The most popular choice in the straw poll was to use a hierarchy called     "apps" rather than "packages" for computer graphics software.  Probably     the strongest reason for this is that a "software package" usually     denotes mid- to large-scale software, released as a bundled collection     of modules by a single commercial source.  Computer graphics software     that falls outside of this definition (POV-RAY, gnuplot, paint programs,     and the like) would then need another hierarchy to include small-scale     or single-module software applications.      Rather than needlessly categorize the types of software, most respondents     chose instead to create a single hierarchy, called "apps".  3b) Rename c.g.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot 3c) Rename c.g.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs 3d) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer      Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.  3e) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer      The name change would also help distinguish this group from the     comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group.  3f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.app.alias 3g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to comp.graphics.app.lightwave      Move these newsgroups from the old .packages hierarchy into the .apps     hierarchy.  3h) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.packages.wavefront      It makes sense to keep the Alias, Softimage and Wavefront newsgroups     in the same place, since they are all competing software.  3i) Move raytracer-specific discussion to comp.graphics.apps.raytracers      The comp.graphics.raytracing group is aimed ``primarily at the user     level'' (from the charter).  It's a mix of raytracing application     discussion and raytracing theory, and also includes discussions of     radiosity and other rendering methods (also from the charter).  I     propose that comp.graphics.apps.raytracers be created to hold     discussions of raytracing software and applications specifically - where     to get it, what to do with it, examples of usage, problems with     installation or implementation, and so on.  Discussion of the theory     and implementation of the raytracing algorithm will be diverted into     .rendering.raytracing, described below.      Using the original charter written by Andy Wardley, I propose that the     comp.graphics.apps.raytracers read as follows:      << comp.graphics.apps.raytracers is dedicated to the discussion of ray     tracing software, tools and methods for generating raytraced     3d graphics.  For example:  ray tracing software (POV-Ray, Vivid, etc.),     modeling software *specifically* for generating ray tracing     scenes - such as Moray and POVcad - (discussion of general modeling     software, CAD, etc., is not appropriate), and miscellaneous utilities,     methods and issues.  Other issues that might be discussed include     converting between formats, generating complex scene information,     designing textures, and creating & using fonts.      Binaries should not be posted to the group.  Pictures should be posted     to alt.binaries.pictures.misc and executables to the appropriate     comp.binaries group.  Scene description files ("source") may be posted     to the group.      Discussion of raytracing theory and implementation is directed to     comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing. >>  4a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc      For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including     hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing     different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  I     propose the following charter:      << The comp.graphics.rendering.misc newsgroup is intended for the     discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in     a comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for     comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus     raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &     radiosity). >>  4b) Create comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      This newsgroup allows for a diversion of raytracing theory and     implementation from the proposed comp.graphics.apps.raytracers newsgroup     (renamed from comp.graphics.raytracing).  This group will be targeted     for discussion of raytracing theory, and for those who write raytracers     of their own.  It might also serve as a forum for discussing variations     on the raytracing algorithm (ray-casting, radiance-like software, and     so on).      I propose the following charter:      << The comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing newsgroup is intended for the     discussion of the raytracing algorithm, implementing raytracers, and     comparison of various implementation schemes and methods.  It is also     intended as a forum of schemes associated with raytracing, such as     spatial subdivision, implicit-surface speedups, and Monte-Carlo     methods.  Readers who wish to discuss particular software applications     and software are directed to comp.graphics.apps.raytracers. >>   5) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.      The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,     for about two years now.  With the creation of the     comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused     newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs     that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've     tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename     this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.      Although an odd approach (as opposed to simply removing the group), this     directs traffic that might have gone to the research newsgroup to the     algorithms newsgroup (which already exists).  There is also precedent     for such a strategy.   === Possible Future Newsgroups ===      The following are the newsgroups I think should be discussed and possibly created AFTER the reorganization is completed.  They are presented here only to give the reader an idea of the final goal, and to provide context for some of the moves outlined above.  comp.graphics.api.inventor     This newsgroup failed almost a year ago, and involved a dispute     regarding a proposed hierarchy called comp.graphics.library.  This will     be up for re-discussion again in mid-November.  comp.graphics.pixutils     Pixel utilities (image manipulation software) are an important topic in     computer graphics, and are often discussed in the comp.graphics     newsgroup anyway.  This topic is currently discussed in     alt.graphics.pixutils.  I think that we would be well-served to     incorporate this discussion into the comp.graphics hierarchy.  comp.graphics.file-formats     A significant portion of the comp.graphics newsgroup has always been     devoted to discussion of graphics file-formats - identifying them,     reading them, writing them, and converting them.  I think it's time for a     dedicated newsgroup for this topic.  comp.graphics.modeling     Since we have an animation group, and I'm proposing a rendering     hierarchy, why not fill it out with a modeling newsgroup?  Another     possibility is to create comp.graphics.modeling.misc.  comp.graphics.apps.softimage     This newsgroup has been suggested already, and fits in with the Alias     and Wavefront newsgroups.  It is currently on hold until the packages     hierarchy is established.   ===  What Now?  ===      This proposal continues the RFD (Request For Discussion).  This means that it is put forth to test for support and opposition, and for the proponents of the proposal to "hammer out the kinks" before it's put to a vote in the CFV (Call For Votes).  Now is the time for you to comment, object or question the proposal.  I will try to incorporate the suggestions, comments and opinions so that the proposal best reflects the consensus of the readers and hence has the best shot at passing.      I've presented this proposal as a comprehensive scheme, rather than a series of phases.  My motivation for this is that I want to present a complete and comprehensive picture of what I have in mind.  If most folks would prefer, we could proceed with a sequence of well-defined stages (e.g. the api hierarchy, the removal of comp.graphics.research, the apps hierarchy, creating comp.graphics.file-formats, et cetera).  However, I think we are better served to discuss the reorganization as a whole.      You can follow-up to this pre-RFD proposal in news.groups or privately to [email protected]                                          Steve <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Wed Mar  8 21:59:29 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Hollasch) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing Subject: 3rd RFD: comp.graphics reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 8 Mar 1995 17:58:15 -0500 Organization: none Lines: 405 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6391 news.groups:138213 comp.graphics:72353 comp.graphics.packages.alias:1797 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:3338 comp.graphics.raytracing:11405                          REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION      This RFD is only slightly modified from the previous version, and I anticipate that (barring any sudden conflagrations) the CFV will follow shortly.  This proposal differs from the previous one in the following:      (1)  I am using Ken Shrum's suggestion of c.g.api.pexlib instead of          c.g.api.pex.      (2)  I have deleted the comp.graphics.raytracing split from this          proposal.  While I still think it's a worthwhile move, I've          decided that it doesn't fit well with the primary purpose of this          reorg, which is to address hierarchy issues in comp.graphics.      (3)  I've fixed some miscellaneous typos (thanks to Anthony Picciano).      (4)  I've added comp.graphics.hardware to the list of *suggested* future          newsgroups.  Lots of comments about the usefulness of this group,          but outside the scope of this reorg.      (5)  After discussion about whether the rename from the .explorer          group to .iris-explorer is really appropriate (or needed), I've          received enough feedback that this is indeed useful; this portion          is retained.      (6)  I've added model ballots for this reorg.  This is pretty much          the last unresolved issue, and where I'd currently like the most          feedback.   === Introduction ===      In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, I am proposing a reorganization of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.      This proposal involves several steps -- it's a large task, but I believe the result will be a more organized and cohesive computer graphics newsgroup space.  In addition, we'll be able to decide now how we want the namespace to expand, rather than dickering over it each time a new newsgroup is introduced.  If you care at all about the organization of computer graphics newsgroups, I urge you to review this proposal.      Please note that in order for a common discussion of this proposal to take place, followups to this proposal are directed to news.groups.  I have set the Followup-To: line to point to news.groups automatically, and suggest that readers interested in this discussion subscribe to news.groups for the duration of this discussion.   === The Affected Newsgroups ===      alt.graphics.pixutils         Discussion of graphical images utilities.      comp.graphics         The original computer graphics newsgroup.  Currently dedicated to         miscellaneous discussion.      comp.graphics.apps.softimage         The SoftImage software package.  Waiting until the hierarchy is         decided.      comp.graphics.avs         The AVS scientific visualization application.      comp.graphics.data-explorer         The IBM Visualization Data Explorer software product (commonly known         as DX).      comp.graphics.explorer         The Iris Explorer software product.      comp.graphics.gnuplot         The plotting software application.      comp.graphics.opengl         The OpenGL Application Programmer's Interface.      comp.graphics.packages.alias         Newly created; dedicated to Alias software.      comp.graphics.packages.lightwave         Newly created; dedicated to Lightwave-3D software.      comp.graphics.raytracing         Mix of raytracing methods and programs.      comp.graphics.research         Research in the field of computer graphics.      comp.soft-sys.wavefront         Wavefront software.      comp.windows.x.pex         The PEX protocol and the PEXlib API.   === The Straw Poll Results ===      The straw poll sent out last fall asked which of the following options was preferred:          (a)  Establish a comp.graphics.packages hierarchy to contain all              discussion of CG software packages and applications.          (b)  Establish a comp.graphics.apps hierarchy to contain all              discussion of CG software packages and applications.          (c)  Establish both comp.graphics.packages and comp.graphics.apps,              and use whichever is deemed most appropriate on a group-by-group              basis.          (d)  Other.      There were a total of 39 votes, broken down as follows:          19 voted to use comp.graphics.apps.          8 voted to use comp.graphics.packages.          8 voted to use both.          3 voted for no change (?).          1 voted to use comp.graphics.app.      As a result of this vote, the CG reorg will also propose to move newsgroups currently located under the .packages hierarchy into the new .apps hierarchy.   === The Proposed Hierarchy ===      + Candidate newsgroups (not in this proposal)      comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group         algorithms         animation         api/                    / New hierarchy     +       inventor            / Could be created later; Open Inventor             misc                / New newsgroup             opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl             pexlib              / From comp.windows.x.pex         apps/                   / New hierarchy             alias               / Alias software, from .packages.alias             avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs             data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer             iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer             gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot             lightwave           / From .packages.lightwave     +       pixutils            / To be created later; image proc. apps     +       softimage           / To be created later; SOFTIMAGE package             wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront     +   file-formats            / To be created later; image file formats         misc                    / From comp.graphics     +   modeling                / To be created later; object modeling         rendering/              / New hierarchy             misc                / New newsgroup             renderman           / In RFD             raytracing          / From comp.graphics.raytracing         visualization   === How Do We Get There From Here? ===      This proposal addresses the creation of subhierarchies under comp.graphics, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies. It also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy.      After the hierarchy is established, additional new newsgroups will be proposed and voted on.  These are included here in order to provide the reader with a full overview of the final goal, and are really only intended to give the reader a sense of what this proposal is all about.  I will comment on the suggested newsgroups below.      That said, here are the guts of the current proposal:   1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc      The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a     couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered     with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it     was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics     hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to     comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a     particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them     from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we     follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.     This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place     to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will     also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.  2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api      It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application     Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a     variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEXlib,     to less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.  2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc      This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including     API design discussion in general.  I propose the charter read as     follows:      << comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer     graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in     any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a     discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and     implementations of computer graphics API's in general. >>  2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl      This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.  2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pexlib      I think that a discussion of PEXlib fits better in the computer     graphics space alongside other graphics API's such as OpenGL.  PEXlib     discussion is somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.     Another possibility is to split comp.windows.x.pex so that protocol     discussion remains in comp.windows.x.pex, but API discussion goes to     comp.graphics.api.pexlib.  However, it doesn't look like the newsgroup     is large enough to justify such a split.  3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps      The most popular choice in the straw poll was to use a hierarchy called     "apps" rather than "packages" for computer graphics software.  Probably     the strongest reason for this is that a "software package" usually     denotes mid- to large-scale software, released as a bundled collection     of modules by a single commercial source.  Computer graphics software     that falls outside of this definition (POV-RAY, gnuplot, paint programs,     and the like) would then need another hierarchy to include small-scale     or single-module software applications.      Rather than needlessly categorize the types of software, most respondents     chose instead to create a single hierarchy, called "apps".  3b) Rename c.g.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot 3c) Rename c.g.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs 3d) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer      Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.  3e) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer      The name change would also help distinguish this group from the     comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group.  3f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.apps.alias 3g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to comp.graphics.apps.lightwave      Move these newsgroups from the old .packages hierarchy into the .apps     hierarchy.  3h) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.apps.wavefront      It makes sense to keep the Alias, Softimage and Wavefront newsgroups     in the same place, since they are all competing software.  4a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc      For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including     hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing     different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  I     propose the following charter:      << The comp.graphics.rendering.misc newsgroup is intended for the     discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in     a comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for     comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus     raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &     radiosity). >>  4b) Move comp.graphics.raytracing to comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      This will move raytracing (and raytracers) discussion under the     rendering hierarchy.   5) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.      The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,     for about two years now.  With the creation of the     comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused     newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs     that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've     tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename     this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.      Although an odd approach (as opposed to simply removing the group), this     directs traffic that might have gone to the research newsgroup to the     algorithms newsgroup (which already exists).  There is also precedent     for such a strategy.   === Possible Future Newsgroups ===      The following are the newsgroups I think should be discussed and possibly created AFTER the reorganization is completed.  They are presented here only to give the reader an idea of the final goal, and to provide context for some of the moves outlined above.  comp.graphics.api.inventor     This newsgroup failed almost a year ago, and involved a dispute     regarding a proposed hierarchy called comp.graphics.library.  This will     be up for re-discussion again in mid-November.  comp.graphics.pixutils     Pixel utilities (image manipulation software) are an important topic in     computer graphics, and are often discussed in the comp.graphics     newsgroup anyway.  This topic is currently discussed in     alt.graphics.pixutils.  I think that we would be well-served to     incorporate this discussion into the comp.graphics hierarchy.  comp.graphics.file-formats     A significant portion of the comp.graphics newsgroup has always been     devoted to discussion of graphics file-formats - identifying them,     reading them, writing them, and converting them.  I think it's time for a     dedicated newsgroup for this topic.  comp.graphics.modeling     Since we have an animation group, and I'm proposing a rendering     hierarchy, why not fill it out with a modeling newsgroup?  Another     possibility is to create comp.graphics.modeling.misc.  comp.graphics.apps.softimage     This newsgroup has been suggested already, and fits in with the Alias     and Wavefront newsgroups.  It is currently on hold until the packages     hierarchy is established.  comp.graphics.hardware     Discussion of film recorders, VR goggles, stereo goggles, projection     displays, and the like.   === Proposed Ballot ===      The ballot format has not been discussed at all before, so this is where I would appreciate some feedback right now.  Note that I will have to submit something to the UVV (Usenet Volunteer Votetakers), and they may void this whole thing and demand a particular ballot format.  I'll keep everyone informed how that end is going.      Assuming that we will be able to dictate the form that the ballot will take, there are several possible routes we can take.  To recap, the current reorg looks like this:      1  Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc      2  Create the comp.graphics.api hierarchy        a) Create comp.graphics.api.misc        b) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl        c) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pexlib      3  Create the comp.graphics.apps hierarchy        a) Rename comp.graphics.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot        b) Rename comp.graphics.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs        c) Rename comp.graphics.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer        d) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer        e) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.apps.wavefront        f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.apps.alias        g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to 	  comp.graphics.apps.lightwave      4  Complete the move to the comp.graphics.rendering hierarchy        a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc        b) Rename comp.graphics.raytracing to comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      5  Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms      One approach is to have a simple YES/NO vote on the whole shebang. It's certainly the easiest approach, but some may object to the take-it- or-leave-it style.      Another possibility is to enumerate every step of this reorg with a separate vote.  I like this option the least because it opens the possibility of a half-implemented hierarchy, which I'd like much less than just leaving things as they are now.      The final possibility is to clump these into five separate aggregate votes.  This way, the .api hierarchy may succeed, even though the .apps hierarchy fails.  I believe that the way I've clumped things, they're all pretty independent from each other.  (Of course, I'd like them all to pass =^).      Comments?   ===  What Now?  ===      This proposal will probably be the last RFD (Request For Discussion). This means that you've not much time left to add your opinion or debate the points in this discussion.  Now is the time for you to comment, object or question the proposal.  I will try to incorporate the suggestions, comments and opinions so that the proposal best reflects the consensus of the readers and hence has the best shot at passing.      You can follow-up to this pre-RFD proposal in news.groups or privately to [email protected]                                             Steve <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Tue Apr 18 22:42:26 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing,comp.windows.x.pex,comp.soft-sys.wavefront Subject: CFV: comp.graphics reorginization Followup-To: poster Date: 18 Apr 1995 21:16:01 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 258 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 11 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6641 news.groups:145255 comp.graphics:74881 comp.graphics.packages.alias:2311 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:4857 comp.graphics.raytracing:12967 comp.windows.x.pex:2128 comp.soft-sys.wavefront:3107                        FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)           unmoderated group comp.graphics.algorithms           unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.misc           unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.opengl           unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.pexlib           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.alias           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.avs           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.lightwave           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.wavefront           unmoderated group comp.graphics.misc           unmoderated group comp.graphics.rendering.misc           unmoderated group comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing  Newsgroups lines: comp.graphics.algorithms	Algorithms used in producing computer graphics. comp.graphics.api.misc	Application Programmer Interface issues, methods. comp.graphics.api.opengl	The OpenGL 3D application programming interface. comp.graphics.api.pexlib        The PEXlib application programming interface. comp.graphics.apps.alias        3-D graphics software from Alias Research. comp.graphics.apps.avs  The Application Visualization System. comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer        IBM's Vis. Data Explorer, aka DX. comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot      The GNUPLOT interactive function plotter. comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer        The Explorer Modular Vis. Envir. (MVE). comp.graphics.apps.lightwave    NewTek's Lightwave3D & related topics. comp.graphics.apps.wavefront    Wavefront software products, problems, etc. comp.graphics.misc      Computer graphics miscellany. comp.graphics.rendering.misc    Rendering comparisons, approaches, methods. comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      Raytracing software, tools and methods.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 May 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact Steve Hollasch <[email protected]>.  CHARTERS for the two new groups:  comp.graphics.api.misc     comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer     graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in     any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a     discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and     implementations of computer graphics API's in general.  comp.graphics.rendering.misc     comp.graphics.rendering.misc is intended for the discussion of     miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in a     comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for     comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus     raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &     radiosity).  Discussion of specific hardware issues belongs in the     corresponding comp.sys newsgroup (e.g. PC-specific issues/questions).     Discussion of a particular application belongs in the comp.graphics.apps     hierarchy.  RATIONALE  === Introduction ===      In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, This proposal will reorganize of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.      This proposal has been in discussion now for over four months, and represents the contributions of many net readers and contributors to the comp.graphics area.  It is a large task, but the result will be a more organized and cohesive newsgroup space for computer graphics topics.  We can decide now how to organize and grow the namespace, rather than dickering over it each time the a new newsgroup is proposed.  Please take the time to vote on this proposal.   === The Proposed Hierarchy ===      + Newsgroups affected by this proposal      comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group         algorithms         animation     +   api/                    / New hierarchy     +       misc                / New newsgroup     +       opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl     +       pexlib              / From comp.windows.x.pex     +   apps/                   / New hierarchy     +       alias               / Alias software, from .packages.alias     +       avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs     +       data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer     +       iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer     +       gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot     +       lightwave           / From .packages.lightwave     +       wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront     +   misc                    / From comp.graphics         rendering/     +       misc                / New newsgroup             renderman           / In RFD     +       raytracing          / From comp.graphics.raytracing         research/               / Renamed to comp.graphics.algorithms         visualization   === Explanation of the Steps ===      This proposal addresses the creation of subhierarchies under comp.graphics, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies. It also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy.   1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc      The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a     couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered     with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it     was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics     hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to     comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a     particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them     from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we     follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.     This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place     to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will     also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.  2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api      It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application     Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a     variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEXlib,     to less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.  2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc      This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including     API design discussion in general.  The charter is given above.  2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl      This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.  2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pexlib      This will move discussion of PEXlib into the computer graphics space     alongside other graphics APS's such as OpenGL.  PEXlib discussion is     somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.  3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps      The most popular choice in the straw poll was to use a hierarchy called     "apps" rather than "packages" for computer graphics software.  Probably     the strongest reason for this is that a "software package" usually     denotes mid- to large-scale software, released as a bundled collection     of modules by a single commercial source.  Computer graphics software     that falls outside of this definition (POV-RAY, gnuplot, paint programs,     and the like) would then need another hierarchy to include small-scale     or single-module software applications.      Rather than needlessly categorize the types of software, most respondents     chose instead to create a single hierarchy, called "apps".  3b) Rename c.g.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot 3c) Rename c.g.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs 3d) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer      Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.  3e) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer      The name change would also help distinguish this group from the     comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group (also endorsed by respondents     who read these groups).  3f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.apps.alias 3g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to comp.graphics.apps.lightwave      Move these newsgroups from the old .packages hierarchy into the .apps     hierarchy.  3h) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.apps.wavefront      This mores wafefront into the comp.graphics hierarchy alongside apps     like Alias (and soon SoftImage).  4a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc      For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including     hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing     different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  The     charter is given above.  4b) Move comp.graphics.raytracing to comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      This will move raytracing (and raytracers) discussion under the     rendering hierarchy.   5) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.      The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,     for about two years now.  With the creation of the     comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused     newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs     that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've     tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename     this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.      Although an odd approach (as opposed to simply removing the group), this     directs traffic that might have gone to the research newsgroup to the     algorithms newsgroup (which already exists).  There is also precedent     for such a strategy.   HOW TO VOTE  Send MAIL to:   [email protected] Just replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.  It would be apprciated by the votetaker if you did NOT forward the entire CFV back; this mail is archived and I really don't need several hundred copies of the CFV on my system.  -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- comp.graphics reorg Ballot     (Don't remove this marker)  Please give your real name here:  [Your Vote]  Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  comp.graphics.algorithms (replaces c.g.research) [         ]  comp.graphics.api.misc (new) [         ]  comp.graphics.api.opengl (replaces c.g.opengl) [         ]  comp.graphics.api.pexlib (replaces comp.windows.x.pex) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.alias (replaces c.g.packages.alias) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.avs (replaces c.g.avs) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer (replaces c.g.data-explorer) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot (replaces c.g.gnuplot) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer (replaces c.g.explorer) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.lightwave (replaces c.g.packages.lightwave) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.wavefront (replaces comp.soft-sys.wavefront) [         ]  comp.graphics.misc (replaces comp.graphics) [         ]  comp.graphics.rendering.misc (new) [         ]  comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing (replaces c.g.raytracing) -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-   You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.  From [email protected] Wed Apr 26 19:38:41 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing,comp.windows.x.pex,comp.soft-sys.wavefront Subject: 2nd CFV: comp.graphics reorginization Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: poster Date: 26 Apr 1995 15:22:09 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 269 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 11 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6705 news.groups:146415 comp.graphics:75372 comp.graphics.packages.alias:2383 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:5126 comp.graphics.raytracing:13288 comp.windows.x.pex:2163 comp.soft-sys.wavefront:3171                        LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)           unmoderated group comp.graphics.algorithms           unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.misc           unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.opengl           unmoderated group comp.graphics.api.pexlib           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.alias           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.avs           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.lightwave           unmoderated group comp.graphics.apps.wavefront           unmoderated group comp.graphics.misc           unmoderated group comp.graphics.rendering.misc           unmoderated group comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing  Newsgroups lines: comp.graphics.algorithms	Algorithms used in producing computer graphics. comp.graphics.api.misc	Application Programmer Interface issues, methods. comp.graphics.api.opengl	The OpenGL 3D application programming interface. comp.graphics.api.pexlib	The PEXlib application programming interface. comp.graphics.apps.alias	3-D graphics software from Alias Research. comp.graphics.apps.avs	The Application Visualization System. comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer	IBM's Vis. Data Explorer, aka DX. comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot	The GNUPLOT interactive function plotter. comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer	The Explorer Modular Vis. Envir. (MVE). comp.graphics.apps.lightwave	NewTek's Lightwave3D & related topics. comp.graphics.apps.wavefront	Wavefront software products, problems, etc. comp.graphics.misc	Computer graphics miscellany. comp.graphics.rendering.misc	Rendering comparisons, approaches, methods. comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing	Raytracing software, tools and methods.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 May 1995.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact Steve Hollasch <[email protected]>.  CHARTERS for the two new groups:  comp.graphics.api.misc     comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer     graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in     any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a     discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and     implementations of computer graphics API's in general.  comp.graphics.rendering.misc     comp.graphics.rendering.misc is intended for the discussion of     miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in a     comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for     comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus     raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &     radiosity).  Discussion of specific hardware issues belongs in the     corresponding comp.sys newsgroup (e.g. PC-specific issues/questions).     Discussion of a particular application belongs in the comp.graphics.apps     hierarchy.  RATIONALE  === Introduction ===      In the last two years, the comp.graphics hierarchy has grown from four newsgroups to about twenty.  In an effort to organize the haphazard organization of current newsgroups and to pave the way for more orderly introduction of future computer graphics newsgroups, This proposal will reorganize of the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy, and some newsgroups associated with computer graphics but not in the hierarchy proper.      This proposal has been in discussion now for over four months, and represents the contributions of many net readers and contributors to the comp.graphics area.  It is a large task, but the result will be a more organized and cohesive newsgroup space for computer graphics topics.  We can decide now how to organize and grow the namespace, rather than dickering over it each time the a new newsgroup is proposed.  Please take the time to vote on this proposal.   === The Proposed Hierarchy ===      + Newsgroups affected by this proposal      comp.graphics/              / No longer a discussion group         algorithms         animation     +   api/                    / New hierarchy     +       misc                / New newsgroup     +       opengl              / From comp.graphics.opengl     +       pexlib              / From comp.windows.x.pex     +   apps/                   / New hierarchy     +       alias               / Alias software, from .packages.alias     +       avs                 / From comp.graphics.avs     +       data-explorer       / From comp.graphics.data-explorer     +       iris-explorer       / From comp.graphics.explorer     +       gnuplot             / From comp.graphics.gnuplot     +       lightwave           / From .packages.lightwave     +       wavefront           / From comp.soft-sys.wavefront     +   misc                    / From comp.graphics         rendering/     +       misc                / New newsgroup             renderman           / In RFD     +       raytracing          / From comp.graphics.raytracing         research/               / Renamed to comp.graphics.algorithms         visualization   === Explanation of the Steps ===      This proposal addresses the creation of subhierarchies under comp.graphics, and the move of existing newsgroups into these hierarchies. It also includes the creation of "side-effect" newsgroups like comp.graphics.api.misc and comp.graphics.rendering.misc.  Finally, it also brings other computer graphics newsgroups into the comp.graphics newsgroup hierarchy.   1) Rename comp.graphics to comp.graphics.misc      The original rationale for not creating a comp.graphics.misc group a     couple of years ago was that comp.graphics was getting pretty cluttered     with machine-specific and application-specific questions.  As such, it     was generally viewed as a lightning-rod group for the comp.graphics     hierarchy; it was hoped that the clueless newbie would sooner post to     comp.graphics than any other group.  Groups which specialized in a     particular field of computer graphics hoped that this would spare them     from off-topic and out-of-charter posts.  I think it's time that we     follow the rest of newsgroup convention and establish a .misc group.     This has the added benefit (hopefully) that readers looking for a place     to post will have to think twice about the group they choose.  It will     also signal that a reorganization in general has taken place.  2a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.api      It's time we had a place to discuss computer graphics Application     Programmers' Interfaces.  This hierarchy would allow for discussion of a     variety of graphics API's, from the more predominant OpenGL and PEXlib,     to less popular API's like HOOPS, Dore', GKS, PHIGS, or whatever.  2b) Create comp.graphics.api.misc      This newsgroup will be for discussion of less-popular API's, including     API design discussion in general.  The charter is given above.  2c) Rename comp.graphics.opengl to comp.graphics.api.opengl      This puts the OpenGL newsgroup in the new API hierarchy.  2d) Rename comp.windows.x.pex to comp.graphics.api.pexlib      This will move discussion of PEXlib into the computer graphics space     alongside other graphics APS's such as OpenGL.  PEXlib discussion is     somewhat buried right now as a subset of the X protocol.  3a) Establish a new hierarchy:  comp.graphics.apps      The most popular choice in the straw poll was to use a hierarchy called     "apps" rather than "packages" for computer graphics software.  Probably     the strongest reason for this is that a "software package" usually     denotes mid- to large-scale software, released as a bundled collection     of modules by a single commercial source.  Computer graphics software     that falls outside of this definition (POV-RAY, gnuplot, paint programs,     and the like) would then need another hierarchy to include small-scale     or single-module software applications.      Rather than needlessly categorize the types of software, most respondents     chose instead to create a single hierarchy, called "apps".  3b) Rename c.g.gnuplot to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot 3c) Rename c.g.avs to comp.graphics.apps.avs 3d) Rename c.g.data-explorer to comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer      Move these groups into the new comp.graphics.apps hierarchy.  3e) Rename comp.graphics.explorer to comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer      The name change would also help distinguish this group from the     comp.graphics.packages.data-explorer group (also endorsed by respondents     who read these groups).  3f) Rename comp.graphics.packages.alias to comp.graphics.apps.alias 3g) Rename comp.graphics.packages.lightwave to comp.graphics.apps.lightwave      Move these newsgroups from the old .packages hierarchy into the .apps     hierarchy.  3h) Rename comp.soft-sys.wavefront to comp.graphics.apps.wavefront      This mores wafefront into the comp.graphics hierarchy alongside apps     like Alias (and soon SoftImage).  4a) Create comp.graphics.rendering.misc      For general discussion of miscellaneous rendering methods, including     hybrid methods and new areas of research.  Also room for comparing     different methods of rendering (e.g. raytracing vs. scanline).  The     charter is given above.  4b) Move comp.graphics.raytracing to comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      This will move raytracing (and raytracers) discussion under the     rendering hierarchy.   5) Rename comp.graphics.research to comp.graphics.algorithms.      The cg.research newsgroup has been dead, and the moderator unreachable,     for about two years now.  With the creation of the     comp.graphics.algorithms newsgroup and other, more topically-focused     newsgroups, I don't believe that this newsgroup would meet any needs     that aren't currently taken care of.  Since the moderator is gone (I've     tried a bunch of ways to reach him), I propose that we formally rename     this newsgroup to comp.graphics.algorithms.      Although an odd approach (as opposed to simply removing the group), this     directs traffic that might have gone to the research newsgroup to the     algorithms newsgroup (which already exists).  There is also precedent     for such a strategy.   HOW TO VOTE  You must send MAIL to [email protected]  (Posting in a newsgroup does not constitute a vote.)  Just replying to this article should work unless you are reading it on a mailing list, but please check the TO address.  Please remove text before the marker line below.  Voting mail is archived by the votetakers, and hundreds of copies of the entire CFV wastes space.  Type your vote of YES or NO for each group on the line for that group. If you do not wish to vote for a group, simply leave that line alone. You need not worry about quoting characters which your mailer inserts. Please type YES or NO, not Y, N, or X.  The votes are tabulated by a program, and a valid vote is defined as the word YES or NO on the same line as the name of the group.  -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- comp.graphics reorg Ballot     (Don't remove this marker)  Please give your real name here:  [Your Vote]  Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  comp.graphics.algorithms (replaces c.g.research) [         ]  comp.graphics.api.misc (new) [         ]  comp.graphics.api.opengl (replaces c.g.opengl) [         ]  comp.graphics.api.pexlib (replaces comp.windows.x.pex) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.alias (replaces c.g.packages.alias) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.avs (replaces c.g.avs) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer (replaces c.g.data-explorer) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot (replaces c.g.gnuplot) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer (replaces c.g.explorer) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.lightwave (replaces c.g.packages.lightwave) [         ]  comp.graphics.apps.wavefront (replaces comp.soft-sys.wavefront) [         ]  comp.graphics.misc (replaces comp.graphics) [         ]  comp.graphics.rendering.misc (new) [         ]  comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing (replaces c.g.raytracing) -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-   You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.  comp.graphics reorg Bounce List - No need to revote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                           Catherine Devine  From [email protected] Sat May 13 00:05:46 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.graphics.packages.alias,comp.graphics.packages.lightwave,comp.graphics.raytracing,comp.windows.x.pex,comp.soft-sys.wavefront Subject: RESULT: comp.graphics reorginization passes Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: news.groups Date: 12 May 1995 16:30:59 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 309 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]><[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6824 news.groups:149103 comp.graphics:76633 comp.graphics.packages.alias:2582 comp.graphics.packages.lightwave:5821 comp.graphics.raytracing:13884 comp.windows.x.pex:2201 comp.soft-sys.wavefront:3329                                  RESULT             comp.graphics reorg results - 199 valid votes   Yes   No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------  172   11 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.algorithms 					(replaces c.g.research)  163   15 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.api.misc (new)  163   14 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.api.opengl 					(replaces c.g.opengl)  150   20 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.api.pexlib 					(replaces comp.windows.x.pex)  159   14 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.alias 					(replaces c.g.packages.alias)  152   16 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.avs 					(replaces c.g.avs)  154   14 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer 					(replaces c.g.data-explorer)  159   15 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot 					(replaces c.g.gnuplot)  158   15 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer 					(replaces c.g.explorer)  157   16 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.lightwave 					(replaces c.g.packages.lightwave)  159   15 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.apps.wavefront 					(replaces comp.soft-sys.wavefront)  170   19 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.misc 					(replaces comp.graphics)  165   19 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.rendering.misc (new)  165   17 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing 					(replaces c.g.raytracing)    3 invalid votes  For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.  There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.  If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the groups shortly thereafter.  Newsgroups lines: comp.graphics.algorithms        Algorithms used in producing computer graphics. comp.graphics.api.misc  Application Programmer Interface issues, methods. comp.graphics.api.opengl        The OpenGL 3D application programming interface. comp.graphics.api.pexlib        The PEXlib application programming interface. comp.graphics.apps.alias        3-D graphics software from Alias Research. comp.graphics.apps.avs  The Application Visualization System. comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer        IBM's Vis. Data Explorer, aka DX. comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot      The GNUPLOT interactive function plotter. comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer        The Explorer Modular Vis. Envir. (MVE). comp.graphics.apps.lightwave    NewTek's Lightwave3D & related topics. comp.graphics.apps.wavefront    Wavefront software products, problems, etc. comp.graphics.misc      Computer graphics miscellany. comp.graphics.rendering.misc    Rendering comparisons, approaches, methods. comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing      Raytracing software, tools and methods.  Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 10 May 1995.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact Steve Hollasch <[email protected]>.  CHARTERS for the two new groups:  comp.graphics.api.misc     comp.graphics.api.misc is intended for the discussion of computer     graphics Application Programmers' Interfaces not currently addressed in     any other comp.graphics.api newsgroup.  It is further intended as a     discussion of the design, concerns, compromises, relative merits and     implementations of computer graphics API's in general.  comp.graphics.rendering.misc     comp.graphics.rendering.misc is intended for the discussion of     miscellaneous rendering methods not addressed directly in a     comp.graphics.rendering newsgroup.  It is also intended as a forum for     comparison between popular rendering methods (e.g. scan-line versus     raytracing), and hybridization of current methods (raytracing &     radiosity).  Discussion of specific hardware issues belongs in the     corresponding comp.sys newsgroup (e.g. PC-specific issues/questions).     Discussion of a particular application belongs in the comp.graphics.apps     hierarchy.  comp.graphics reorg Final Vote Ack   comp.graphics.rendering.raytracing (replaces c.g.raytracing) ----------------+                           comp.graphics.rendering.misc (new) ---------------+|                  comp.graphics.misc (replaces comp.graphics) --------------+|| comp.graphics.apps.wavefront (repl  comp.soft-sys.wavefront) -------------+||| comp.graphics.apps.lightwave (repl   c.g.packages.lightwave) ------------+||||     comp.graphics.apps.iris-explorer (replaces c.g.explorer) -----------+|||||            comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot (replaces c.g.gnuplot) ----------+|||||| comp.graphics.apps.data-explorer (repl    c.g.data-explorer) ---------+|||||||                    comp.graphics.apps.avs (replaces c.g.avs) --------+||||||||       comp.graphics.apps.alias (replaces c.g.packages.alias) -------+|||||||||       comp.graphics.api.pexlib (replaces comp.windows.x.pex) ------+||||||||||               comp.graphics.api.opengl (replaces c.g.opengl) -----+|||||||||||                                 comp.graphics.api.misc (new) ----+||||||||||||             comp.graphics.algorithms (replaces c.g.research) ---+|||||||||||||                                                                 |||||||||||||| [email protected]                     Dale Schofield YYYYYYYYYYYYYY @hermes.dra.hmg.gb:[email protected]               Gary Payne YYYYYYYYYYYYNN [email protected]                                   Alan Boucek YNYNY--NYYY--- [email protected]                         Andreas Dilger YY----YYY--YYY [email protected]                       Ade The Shade YYY-----YY-YYY [email protected]                      Alex P. Madarasz, Jr. YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                      Alexandre Soler Martinez NYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                        Alexander Schulze YYYYY------YYY [email protected]                              Vincent Archer NNNNNNNNNNNNNN [email protected]                         Arijan Siska YYYY-------YYY [email protected]                       Harald Backert YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            Ed Bailey YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            Richard "dr." Baily YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                    Balaji YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                    David Barr YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                  Barry Nathan YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                     Brian Dady YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          William J. Duncan YY-----Y---YYY [email protected]                               Bengt Larsson YYYYYYYYYYYNNY [email protected]                                  B.J. Herbison -Y--YYYYYY-YY- [email protected]                         David Blythe NNNNNNNNNNNNNN [email protected]                          Robert Stewart ---N--------Y- [email protected]                        Edward L. Bolson YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             Mark Bolstad YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                               Brian D Hillegass YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                        Buckley Collum YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                Scott Carles YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                 Joachim Lous YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                Clark K. Gaylord Y----NNNNN-Y-- [email protected]                     Jacques Chanel YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            Christian Reisel YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                           Christopher Doehlert YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                 James H. Cloos Jr. YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Chris Stamper YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                        Christopher D Lund YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Craig E. Groeschel YYYNYYYYYYYYNN [email protected]                      K. CROUCH -------------- [email protected]                                Christopher Ward YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                Curtis White YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                 Stephen R. Phillips YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Daniel S. Lewart YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Darlene E. Hadrika YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             David Heath YYYYYY-YYYYYYY [email protected]                             David Brookshire YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Malcolm E. Davis YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]          Francisco X DeJesus YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                               Philip Delaquess YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             Dev Mannemela YYY-Y-----YYYY [email protected]                             David H. Friedman YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            Daniel J. McCoy YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                    D. Keith Arbuckle YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                         Ayzer Meir-danie YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            David Mosher YNYYYYYYYYYNNY [email protected]                            Donna Marie Calcote YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                Don Dovey Y-YYYYYYYYY--- [email protected]                     Christopher P. Stewart YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             Dave O'Leary YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                 David Ezekiel Stabosz YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                  Paul Eggert YYYNYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]          David Anton Menendez YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                    Emery Lapinski YYNNYNY-YNNYYY [email protected]                                        Mark Hall YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]          Fredie J. Layberge ----Y----YYYYY [email protected]                                     Francis Uy -----------Y-- [email protected]                         Lloyd Eldred YY--YYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                           Gavin Bell YYYNYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                         Dirk Van Gelder YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]              Abraham V. George YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                 scott goeken Y------------- [email protected]                         Himanshu Gohel YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                   Greg Couch YNNNNNNNNNNNNN [email protected]                                    Dave DeBry YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Gudjon Mar Gudjonsson YYYNYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Gunnar Kaiser YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]    WILLEM VAN SCHAIK (INTERNET: GWILLEM Y-Y----Y---YYY [email protected]                  Ralf Helbing YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             Barett McGavock YNYYYYYYYYYYNY [email protected]                              J.J. Hoesing YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Steve Hollasch YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                     Hartmut W. Malzahn YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                        Ian Burrell YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             Juan J. Buhler YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                       Jaime Castells YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                               Jeffrey C. Jones YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                  Jeff Murphy YNNNNNYYNNNYNY [email protected]                      Jeffrey David Cohen YNYYYYYYYYYNNY [email protected]    James D. Almand <[email protected] NYYYYYYYYYYYNN [email protected]            James Duncan Davidson YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              David Jenkins YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                        Jeremy Mears YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                         Kouhei Matsuda YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                 Joe Geigel YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Jonathan Robert Gross YYY-YYY-Y-YYYY [email protected]                             John Stickland YYY----Y---YYY [email protected]                              Jeff Hodgson YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Jason D Howat YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                   John E. Howland YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            James Dale Polk Y-Y-Y--Y--YYYY [email protected]                                  Jim Jewett --YYYYYYYYYY-Y [email protected]                                       Joel Bagley YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                    Trevor Tymchuk YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                         Sudish Joseph YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                        Jim Atkinson YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                      John R. MacWilliamson NNNNNNNNNNNNNN [email protected]                                Keith R. Crosley YYYYNNNNNNNYNN [email protected]                                      Kevin Bagley YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Kevin C. Marshall YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                               Kim DeVaughn YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                Kimmo Ketolainen +358 40 500 2957 YYYYYYYYYYYYYN [email protected]                      Khantipol Kasemsant YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                 Kjetil Vatne YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Karl Schultz YYYY-------YYY [email protected]                                  Lance F. Barker YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                         Lantz Rowland YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                      Jon Leech YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]            I'm too Sexy For Your Glenn YYY----YYYYNYY [email protected]                                 Mick Brown YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                               Robert Lipman YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                  Martin Schr\"oder YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Lisa Traub YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                 Nathan Loofbourrow NYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                 Thomas Loop YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Luis A. Rodriguez -------------- [email protected]                  Lutz Donnerhacke YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Ian MacPhedran -YYYYYYYYYYNYY [email protected]                 Markus Porto YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                    Markus Schuh YYYYNNNNNNNYYY [email protected]                      Marvin Landis YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            Zeke M. Towson NNNNNNNNNNNNNN [email protected]                       Matthias LANG YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Mattias Ernelli YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                  Daniel R. McLachlan YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                               Mark Ball YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            Michel Jonas ----------Y--- [email protected]                               Mark Kilgard NNNNNNNNNNNNNN [email protected]                                 Matt Pharr YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                  M Mike Taksar -------------- [email protected]                   Morten Bro-Nielsen YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                        Mark Adams YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                  Nathaniel Stitt NYNNNNNNNNYYYN [email protected]                              Norbert G. Hanke YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                           Nick Ingegneri NYNNNNNNNNNNYN [email protected]                      Martin A. Childs -----------YYY [email protected]                                Olaf Klein YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             david parsons -----------N-- [email protected]                                   M. Otto -------------- [email protected]                    Samuel S. Paik YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                   Jean-Francois Panisset YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            Amit Parghi YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Philip J. Decker YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                        Philippe F. Bertrand YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                  Phil Rogers  YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                               Anthony Picciano YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                         Pierre Uszynski YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                               Paul Martz YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                         Paul S. Strauss YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                 Daniel Quinlan YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                 Dirk Reiners YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                     Ryan Waldron YNNNNNNNNNNYNN [email protected]                                 Richard Miller YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            Riku Saikkonen YYY----Y---YYY [email protected]                                Randy Rohrer YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             J. Rufinus YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          S.M.Sabri S.M.Ismail YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Steven C. Dollins YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                Daniel Martinez YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                Sam De Backer YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Scott D. Senften YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                       Fotis Riktos YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Lynda L. True YYYYYYYYYYYNYY [email protected]                                 Ken Shrum YYYY-------YYY [email protected]                         Stephen Joseph Smith -------------- [email protected]                            Catherine Devine YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             Stephen Eric Blake YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Jacob Sparre Andersen YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                        Shrirang Nene YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                   Dwight Brown NNNNNNNNNNNNNN [email protected]                                Steve Rogers YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]               Javier Ferrer Martin YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                         Christina Craft Y---------NNNN [email protected]                              Ted R. Schuh YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                         Tom Lane YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                  Ryan Houle YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Michael Tiemann YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                    Timothy M. Carnahan YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                      Tim Day YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                 Tomas Willis YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                            Samu Mielonen YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                             Branko Collin YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                        Brent Beach YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                                D. Scott Urban YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                          Risto Widenius YNNNNNNNNNNNNN [email protected]                             Wim Driessens ----Y---YYYYYY [email protected]    Wolfgang Schild YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                              Mason Woo YNNNYYYYYYYNYY [email protected]                Walter J. Turberville (III) ---------Y-NY- [email protected]          Guenter Wunner Y----------Y-- [email protected]          Kent Paul Dolan a.k.a. Xanthian YYYYYYYYYYYYYY [email protected]                        Xavier Stonestreet YY---------Y--   Votes in error ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                     Bob Stewart    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                                Jason Hough    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                                    Mark Foster    ! 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