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Demos ( comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos )
 
From [email protected] Thu Feb 28 23:45:33 1993
Xref: newshost.uwo.ca news.announce.newgroups:2916 news.groups:60471 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:7627 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:33786 comp.os.msdos.programmer:21310 rec.games.programmer:9562
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: RFD: comp.sys.ibm.pc.groupdemos
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 28 Jan 1993 23:45:33 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 59
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

  Create an UNMODERATED Usenet newsgroup called comp.sys.ibm.pc.groupdemos

  This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have 
  interest in the discussion about the new group; follow-up discussion will
  take place in 'news.groups' and replies are forwarded to there. 

This group would exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and
the groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, the
music and graphics involved in the demos, and anything else pertaining
to them.

Group demos are graphics and sound demonstration programs which exist
mostly for the purpose of showing off the programming, graphics, and
music composition skills of the authors of the demos.  Generally this
involves showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the
background.  Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders"
- If you remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had
scrolling message demos with music.

These are _not_ demos of games or applications, such as a shareware
game, word processor, or operating system.  These are self-contained
and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the authors of
the demo.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.  There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on
Usenet, and more who could get access), and they churn out quite a few
demos and have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these, demos although
there are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The
discussion often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard, which is
somewhat inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive
part of the demos, or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't
really fit in any existing group.

This group is not for the posting of demos - the demos will have to be
obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail server, or
through the binaries groups.

I already sent out an earlier "feeler" message on a few related groups
to see if there was any interest in such a group, and have recieved a
large volume of mail in support, enough that I feel the effort of
creating the group is a worthwhile thing.  The name "groupdemos" is
not the most beautiful thing in the world, but we realize that the
simple name of "demos" will result in massive confusion with the large
number of software product demos.

If we can reach a reasonable consensus on the above in 30 days or
less, I will send out the CFV for a four week vote on the matter.
Eager beavers should NOT ask me how to vote or try to vote until the
CFV is issued - no vote recieved before then is valid.
-- 
The budget is a mythical bean bag.  Congress votes mythical beans into it,
and then tries to reach in and pull real beans out. -- Will Rogers

From [email protected] Thu Feb 18 23:11:52 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: 2nd RFD: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 15 Feb 1993 20:08:01 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 56
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3249 news.groups:66740 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:8585 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:36881 comp.os.msdos.programmer:22372 rec.games.programmer:10876

[ The big difference here is that the name has been changed ]

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

  Create an UNMODERATED Usenet newsgroup called comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos

  This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have 
  interest in the discussion about the new group; follow-up discussion will
  take place in 'news.groups'. 

This group would exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and
the groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of showing off the programming,
graphics, and music composition skills of the authors of the demos.
Generally this involves showing off graphics tricks while music plays
in the background.  Smaller version of these are sometimes known as
"loaders" -  If you remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of
software had scrolling text demos with music.

These are _not_ demos of games or applications, such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of
the authors of the demo.

This group is not for the posting of demos - the demos will have to be
obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail server, or
through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.  There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on
Usenet, and more who could get access), and they churn out quite a few
demos and have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these, demos although
there are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The
discussion often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard, which is
somewhat inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive
part of the demos, or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't
really fit in any existing group.

The previous RFD was very well recieved, except for the bletcherous
name of csip.groupdemos, which I hated but thought was necessary.
There seems to be a consensus with which I now agree that csipg.demos
will be fine - it should be obvious from the FAQs and discussions
what's being discussed.

The proposal has recieved strong report, so if there are no
serious objections to the above I will send out the CFV for a four
week vote on the matter.
-- 
Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings.

From [email protected] Tue Feb 23 23:42:25 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: CFV: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
Followup-To: poster
Date: 23 Feb 1993 15:34:22 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 102
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3285 news.groups:67309 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:9100 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:38298 comp.os.msdos.programmer:22659 rec.games.programmer:11060

This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have
interest in the candidate group; follow-ups are sent to the original
poster.  If you must discuss something here in public, it should take
place in 'news.groups'

Read below for the group charter.
 
VOTING

You should send MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to

      [email protected]

(just replying by MAIL to this message should work).  Your mail
message should contain one and only one of the following statements:

      I vote YES on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
or
      I vote NO on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos

You may add a comment, but anything other than a definite statement
involving "comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos" will be ignored as far as voting
goes, and any vote that states "I vote xxx on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
if..." will not be counted.

One vote per person.  If you change your mind, your last vote received
will be the vote that counts.  Multiple votes from multiple accounts
for one person are ineligible.


VOTING RESULTS

The voting period will run from the time of this posting till 11:59:59
PM, Tuesday, March 23, 1993.  Anything recieved after this time will be
ineligible.  Results will be posted on Friday, March 26.

Within this period I will be making two additional Call For Vote
postings.  At these times I will list all voters (without indicating
their votes).  For the final results, the votes will be listed by vote.
If the group passes by at least 100 votes and if at least two thirds of
the votes are for group creation, and there are no questions raised
about the vote, the group will be created by the newsgroups moderator
after the prescribed period of 5 days.


VOTE TAKER NOTES

I RFDed, CFVed, and am now taking the votes for this group. This is
not unusual, but can lead to potentially nasty situations.  As I want
to avoid any impropriety in the vote, any lengthy flamewars, or
anything else that might tangle the group in controversy:

As of the time this CFV is posted, I will cease to campaign for or
against this group, in public or in private.  I will answer
questions about the group and point interested parties to the CFVs,
but will not advocate that they vote for or against it.


Rationale and Charter
 
This group will exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and the
groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of stretching the capabilities of the
computer and showing off the programming, graphics, and music
composition skills of the authors of the demos. Generally this involves
showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the background.
Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders" -  If you
remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had scrolling text
demos with music.

**** These are _not_ demos of games or applications **** , such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the
authors of the demo.

This group is not for the posting of demos - the demos will have to be
obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail server, or
through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.	There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on Usenet,
and more who could get access).  They churn out quite a few demos and
have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these demos although there
are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The discussion
often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard (which is somewhat
inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive part of the
demos) or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't really fit in
any existing group.

They're not everybody's cup of tea, but the existence of so many demo
groups and those who follow them indicate quite a large following, which
the RFD for this group confirmed.  The Amiga demos group is quite
active, and we hope this one will be as well.
-- 
Our major obligation is not to mistake slogans for solutions. -- Murrow

From [email protected] Wed Mar 10 21:08:16 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: 2nd CFV and VOTE ACK: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
Followup-To: poster
Date: 3 Mar 1993 23:53:09 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 269
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3322 news.groups:67537 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:9580 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:39755 comp.os.msdos.programmer:22920 rec.games.programmer:11242

If you have already voted on this issue, do NOT vote again unless
you've changed your mind - but you should check the list of posters at
the end of this note to see if you are in there.

This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have
interest in the candidate group; follow-ups are sent to the original
poster.  If you must discuss something here in public, it should take
place in 'news.groups'

Read below for the group charter.

 
VOTING

You should send MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to

      [email protected]

(just replying by MAIL to this message should work).  Your mail
message should contain one and only one of the following statements:

      I vote YES on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
or
      I vote NO on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos

You may add a comment, but anything other than a definite statement
involving "comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos" will be ignored as far as voting
goes, and any vote that states "I vote xxx on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
if..." will not be counted.

One vote per person.  If you change your mind, your last vote received
will be the vote that counts.  Multiple votes from multiple accounts
for one person are ineligible.


VOTING RESULTS

The voting period will run from the time of this posting till 11:59:59
PM, Tuesday, March 23, 1993.  Anything recieved after this time will be
ineligible.  Results will be posted on Friday, March 26.

Within this period I will be making two additional Call For Vote
postings.  At these times I will list all voters (without indicating
their votes).  For the final results, the votes will be listed by vote.
If the group passes by at least 100 votes and if at least two thirds of
the votes are for group creation, and there are no questions raised
about the vote, the group will be created by the newsgroups moderator
after the prescribed period of 5 days.


VOTE TAKER NOTES

I RFDed, CFVed, and am now taking the votes for this group. This is
not unusual, but can lead to potentially nasty situations.  As I want
to avoid any impropriety in the vote, any lengthy flamewars, or
anything else that might tangle the group in controversy:

As of the time this CFV is posted, I will cease to campaign for or
against this group, in public or in private.  I will answer
questions about the group and point interested parties to the CFVs,
but will not advocate that they vote for or against it.


Rationale and Charter
 
This group will exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and the
groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of stretching the capabilities of the
computer and showing off the programming, graphics, and music
composition skills of the authors of the demos. Generally this involves
showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the background.
Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders" -  If you
remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had scrolling text
demos with music.

**** These are _not_ demos of games or applications **** , such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the
authors of the demo.

This group is not for the posting of demos - the demos will have to be
obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail server, or
through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.	There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on Usenet,
and more who could get access).  They churn out quite a few demos and
have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Please do not confuse these demo groups with pirate groups.  These
groups exist for the sole purpose of creating demos (and games) and do
not engage in piracy.  Pirate group do occasionally create an
occasional small demo (a loader), but these are almost always of
extremely inferior quality.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these demos although there
are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The discussion
often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard (which is somewhat
inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive part of the
demos) or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't really fit in
any existing group.

They're not everybody's cup of tea, but the existence of so many demo
groups and those who follow them indicate quite a large following, which
the RFD for this group confirmed.  The Amiga demos group is quite
active, and we hope this one will be as well.

This is the current list of people I think have voted:

[email protected] (LEBLANC ERIC)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Andre Lehovich)
[email protected]
Andrew Robinson <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Andrew Finkenstadt)
[email protected] (James Bothwell Avison)
[email protected] (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Boerge Noest)
[email protected] (Tom Boutell)
[email protected] (Brian TroxeLL)
[email protected] (Bruce Jorgens )
[email protected] (John J. Brassil)
[email protected] (Jan Brittenson)
Burt N Holzman <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Dave Carr)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Chip Rosenthal)
Chris Harris <[email protected]>
Chris Marble <[email protected]>
Cord Beermann <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Stephen R. Phillips)
"Dan Wright" <[email protected]>
"Daniel Falk"  <[email protected]>
"Daniel Sjoeberg"  <[email protected]>
Daniel Starr <[email protected]>
David Cornish <[email protected]>
David E. Goggin <dt4%[email protected]>
"David J Dutcher-1" <[email protected]>
David Reeve Sward <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (/usr/spool/mail/e92md)
"Elan Feingold" <[email protected]>
"Eric J. Olson" <[email protected]>
Erik 'legalize me' Soderstrom <[email protected]>
Ernest A. Cline <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jim)
[email protected] (Ed Wilts)
[email protected] (James Hague)
<[email protected]>
FOMBARON marc <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Tom Walcott)
[email protected] (George Lane)
[email protected] (Gabriel Moy)
Greg Sachs <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Morten Grouleff)
[email protected] (Unknown)
[email protected] (Hamish Hubbard)
[email protected] (Mark Harrison)
Henrik Nordstrom <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (High Priest)
James R Lendino <[email protected]>
Jari Petri Karjala <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jason Burrell)
[email protected] (John Duncan)
[email protected] ( John Henders )
Jim Nelson <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jay Maynard)
"JOE COULSON, KY389 LTC-NORTH, 6-9712" <[email protected]>
John Herndon <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Joshua Randall <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Dark Knight)
[email protected]
Karhu Jouni <[email protected]>
[email protected] (K.E. Kindler )
[email protected] (Jarkko Kemppainen)
Ken Fishkin <[email protected]>
Kenneth Herron <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Kevin Lu)
Kludge <[email protected]>
KOENIG gerald <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jeff M Krusz)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Lee Burley)
Louis Solomon <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Magnus Domeij Tek22)
Marc Moorcroft <[email protected]>
Marc Rouleau <[email protected]>
Matt Schikore <[email protected]>
"Matthew E. Bernold" <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Mike Hatz)
Michael Quinn <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Mike Battersby)
[email protected] (Marko Mikkola , 931-2407 478)
Moonrise Programmer <[email protected]>
Morgan Stair <[email protected]>
[email protected] (William Moxley)
[email protected]
[email protected] (The Frenchman)
[email protected]
Noel Bovens <FPAAU11%[email protected]>
[email protected] (Nancy Rabinowitz)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Oliver White)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Bill Owens)
Parik Rao <[email protected]>
Paul Cunnell <[email protected]>
Paul Greve <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Philip Arthur White)
[email protected] (The Man Behind The Curtain)
[email protected] (Paul S. Kedrosky)
[email protected]
R Andrew Hayden <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Ron Dippold)
Reply-To: [email protected] (Mike Northam)
RH Schone <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Richard H. Miller)
Robert Ruthven <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Dave Roberts)
Roland Kaltefleiter <[email protected]>
[email protected] (David A. Braun)
[email protected] (Randy W. Stoller)
[email protected] (RUNE HALFDAN HOLST HUSEBY)
Ryan Bayne <[email protected]>
[email protected] ([email protected] +43 1 81111-2316)
[email protected]
Shula Ben-Asher <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Silk Merchant)
[email protected] (wReam)
[email protected] (Steve Rogers)
Stephen Lau <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Steve Demuth)
Steven T Chiang <[email protected]c.columbia.edu>
[email protected] (Stu Labovitz)
[email protected] (Taero Patterson)
Talkie Toaster <[email protected]>
Tall Cool One  <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Aaron Grier)
"Thomas D Gasser-1" <[email protected]> (Thomas D.Gasser)
"Tim Triemstra" <[email protected]>
Tod B Bussert <[email protected]>
Tom Swingle <[email protected]>
Tony Wilson <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Troy Morrison)
trux%[email protected] (Chris Rende)
"TTT"  <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Kirk Membry)
[email protected] (Michael Warning)
[email protected]
Xander Wemmers <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Scott E Flowers)
[email protected] (Zhahai Stewart)
-- 
In the end, one or the other will triumph -- a funeral dirge will be sung over
the Soviet republic or over world capitalism. -- V.I. Lenin, 1920

From [email protected] Thu Mar 11 11:35:17 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: 3rd CFV and VOTE ACK: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
Followup-To: poster
Date: 11 Mar 1993 01:38:34 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 365
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3346 news.groups:67886 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:10058 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:41336 comp.os.msdos.programmer:23149 rec.games.programmer:11406

If you have already voted on this issue, do NOT vote again unless
you've changed your mind - but you should check the list of posters at
the end of this note to see if you are in there.

This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have
interest in the candidate group; follow-ups are sent to the original
poster.  If you must discuss something here in public, it should take
place in 'news.groups'

Read below for the group charter.

 
VOTING

You should send MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to

      [email protected]

(just replying by MAIL to this message should work).  Your mail
message should contain one and only one of the following statements:

      I vote YES on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
or
      I vote NO on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos

You may add a comment, but anything other than a definite statement
involving "comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos" will be ignored as far as voting
goes, and any vote that states "I vote xxx on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
if..." will not be counted.

One vote per person.  If you change your mind, your last vote received
will be the vote that counts.  Multiple votes from multiple accounts
for one person are ineligible.


VOTING RESULTS

The voting period will run from the time of this posting till 11:59:59
PM, Tuesday, March 23, 1993.  Anything recieved after this time will be
ineligible.  Results will be posted on Friday, March 26.

Within this period I will be making two additional Call For Vote
postings.  At these times I will list all voters (without indicating
their votes).  For the final results, the votes will be listed by vote.
If the group passes by at least 100 votes and if at least two thirds of
the votes are for group creation, and there are no questions raised
about the vote, the group will be created by the newsgroups moderator
after the prescribed period of 5 days.


VOTE TAKER NOTES

I RFDed, CFVed, and am now taking the votes for this group. This is
not unusual, but can lead to potentially nasty situations.  As I want
to avoid any impropriety in the vote, any lengthy flamewars, or
anything else that might tangle the group in controversy:

As of the time this CFV is posted, I will cease to campaign for or
against this group, in public or in private.  I will answer
questions about the group and point interested parties to the CFVs,
but will not advocate that they vote for or against it.


Rationale and Charter
 
This group will exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and the
groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of stretching the capabilities of the
computer and showing off the programming, graphics, and music
composition skills of the authors of the demos. Generally this involves
showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the background.
Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders" -  If you
remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had scrolling text
demos with music.

**** These are _not_ demos of games or applications **** , such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the
authors of the demo.

**** This group is not for the posting of demos **** - the demos will
have to be obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail
server, or through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.	There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on Usenet,
and more who could get access).  They churn out quite a few demos and
have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Please do not confuse these demo groups with pirate groups.  These
groups exist for the sole purpose of creating demos (and games) and do
not engage in piracy.  Pirate group do occasionally create an
occasional small demo (a loader), but these are almost always of
extremely inferior quality.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these demos although there
are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The discussion
often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard (which is somewhat
inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive part of the
demos) or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't really fit in
any existing group.

They're not everybody's cup of tea, but the existence of so many demo
groups and those who follow them indicate quite a large following, which
the RFD for this group confirmed.  The Amiga demos group is quite
active, and we hope this one will be as well.

This is the current list of people I think have voted as of Monday,
March 8:

[email protected] (LEBLANC ERIC)
[email protected]
Adam Cheal <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Andre Lehovich)
[email protected]
Amir Eliaz <[email protected]>
Andreas Henning <[email protected]>
Andrew Hilmer <[email protected]>
Andrew Robinson <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Andrew Finkenstadt)
Arno Schaefer <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (James Bothwell Avison)
[email protected] (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
B R Stragnell <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Bob Tarr <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Boerge Noest)
[email protected] (Tom Boutell)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Brian TroxeLL)
[email protected] (Bruce Jorgens )
[email protected] (John J. Brassil)
[email protected] (Jan Brittenson)
Buckaroo Banzai <[email protected]>
Burt N Holzman <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Carlos Smith)
[email protected] (Dave Carr)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Chip Rosenthal)
Chris Harris <[email protected]>
Chris Marble <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Cord Beermann <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (Stephen R. Phillips)
"Dan Wright" <[email protected]>
"Daniel Falk"  <[email protected]>
"Daniel Sachs 708-833-3763" <[email protected]>
"Daniel Sjoeberg"  <[email protected]>
Daniel Starr <[email protected]>
David Cornish <[email protected]>
David Datta <[email protected]>
David E. Goggin <dt4%[email protected]>
"David J Dutcher-1" <[email protected]>
David Reeve Sward <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Francois Dion)
Doug <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (/usr/spool/mail/e92md)
[email protected] (Edward Bertsch)
[email protected] (Erik Hilsdale)
"Elan Feingold" <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Ed McGuire)
[email protected] (Elias 'CaveMan' Papavassilopoulos)
"Eric J. Olson" <[email protected]>
Erik 'legalize me' Soderstrom <[email protected]>
Ernest A. Cline <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jim)
[email protected] ( neil bergin xd/gk)
[email protected] (Ed Wilts)
[email protected] (James Hague)
<[email protected]>
FOMBARON marc <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Palta Network's Chacal)
[email protected] (Gregory C Franklin )
[email protected] (Tom Walcott)
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (Gregory G. Woodbury)
[email protected]
[email protected] (George Lane)
[email protected] (Gabriel Moy)
Greg Sachs <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Morten Grouleff)
[email protected] (Unknown)
[email protected] (Hamish Hubbard)
[email protected] (Mark Harrison)
Henrik Nordstrom <[email protected]>
"Hi, I'm Hoyt. What? Hoyt. What?!?!? H-O-Y-T. Oh..." <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Hitesh J. Jasani)
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (High Priest)
[email protected]
IBM AS/400 Partnership at Mankato State University <[email protected]>
"James F. Kane III" <[email protected]>
James R Lendino <[email protected]>
Jari Petri Karjala <[email protected]>
Jarkko Tapio Heinonen <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jason Burrell)
[email protected] (John Duncan)
Jeff Gostin <[email protected]>
Jeff Miller <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Jesus Eugenio S nchez Pe~a <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Joseph George)
[email protected] ( John Henders )
[email protected] (John Hopkins)
Jim Nelson <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jay Maynard)
Jochen Kornitzky <[email protected]>
"Jochen Quante" <[email protected]>
"JOE COULSON, KY389 LTC-NORTH, 6-9712" <[email protected]>
John Herndon <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Joshua Randall <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (Dark Knight)
[email protected]
[email protected] (John M. Stewart-)
Karhu Jouni <[email protected]>
[email protected] (K.E. Kindler )
[email protected] (Jarkko Kemppainen)
Ken Fishkin <[email protected]>
Kenneth Herron <[email protected]>
"Kevin Barrett" <[email protected]>
Kevin Dangoor <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Kevin Lu)
[email protected] (Baum, Kirk)
Kludge <[email protected]>
KOENIG gerald <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Matthias Krallmann)
"Krister Karlsson"  <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Nicolas Serres)
[email protected] (Jeff M Krusz)
[email protected] (Kijin Jung)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Lee Burley)
Louis Solomon <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Magnus Domeij Tek22)
Marc Moorcroft <[email protected]>
Marc Rouleau <[email protected]>
Matt Schikore <[email protected]>
"Matthew E. Bernold" <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Craig Presnell)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Mike Hatz)
[email protected] (Mike Hatz)
Michael C Landauer <[email protected]>
Michael Quinn <[email protected]>
Michael Sutter  <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Mike Battersby)
[email protected] (Mike Fields)
[email protected] (Marko Mikkola , 931-2407 478)
Moonrise Programmer <[email protected]>
Morgan Stair <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jeff Meyer)
Moss A D <[email protected]>
[email protected] (William Moxley)
[email protected] (Manuel J. Petit de Gabriel)
[email protected]
[email protected] (The Frenchman)
Neil Madden <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Noel Bovens <FPAAU11%[email protected]>
[email protected] (Nancy Rabinowitz)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Iain Odlin)
[email protected] (Oliver White)
Otter <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Bill Owens)
Parik Rao <[email protected]>
Patrick Aalto <[email protected]>
Paul Cunnell <[email protected]>
Paul Greve <[email protected]>
Paul Robinson <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Philip Arthur White)
[email protected] (Perron Guillaume)
Peter Arien <LAAAA43%[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (The Man Behind The Curtain)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Paul S. Kedrosky)
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (Father Time)
R Andrew Hayden <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Ron Dippold)
Reply-To: [email protected] (Mike Northam)
RH Schone <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Richard H. Miller)
Robert Ruthven <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Dave Roberts)
Roland Kaltefleiter <[email protected]>
[email protected] (David A. Braun)
[email protected] (Randy W. Stoller)
[email protected]
[email protected] (RUNE HALFDAN HOLST HUSEBY)
[email protected]
Ryan Bayne <[email protected]>
[email protected] ([email protected] +43 1 81111-2316)
scarnie%[email protected] (Stuart George Carnie)
[email protected]
Shula Ben-Asher <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Silk Merchant)
SIT  ANDREW <[email protected]>
[email protected] (wReam)
[email protected] (Sami Nieminen)
Spooky Electric <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Steve Rogers)
Stefan Sundstr|m <[email protected]>
Stephen Lau <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Steve Demuth)
Steven T Chiang <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Stig Arne Olsen <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Stu Labovitz)
"Sven M. Heinicke" <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Swa Frantzen)
[email protected] (Siegfried Hirsch)
[email protected] (Taero Patterson)
Talkie Toaster <[email protected]>
Tall Cool One  <[email protected]>
Terry Marshall <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Aaron Grier)
"There can be only one." <CT64%[email protected]>
"Thomas D Gasser-1" <[email protected]> (Thomas D.Gasser)
"Tim Triemstra" <[email protected]>
Tod B Bussert <[email protected]>
Tom Swingle <tswin[email protected]>
Tony Dragozet <[email protected]>
Tony Wilson <[email protected]>
tord faeroy <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Stephen C. Trier)
[email protected] (Troy Morrison)
trux%[email protected] (Chris Rende)
"TTT"  <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (Carlos Y. Villalpando)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Kirk Membry)
[email protected] (Michael Warning)
[email protected]
[email protected]
Xander Wemmers <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Scott E Flowers)
[email protected] (Zhahai Stewart)
-- 
The bigger they are, the harder they hit.

From [email protected] Mon Mar 29 20:40:36 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: RESULT: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos passes 286:63
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 26 Mar 1993 11:08:40 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 425
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3387 news.groups:68546 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:11022 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:45038 comp.os.msdos.programmer:23679 rec.games.programmer:11731

Voting for comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos is over.  It received 286 votes for
group creation and 63 against.  This is over four times as many yes
votes as no votes (two times is necessary) and 225 more yes votes as
no votes (100 is necessary).  Barring any complications, we hope to
see the group created at the end of the five day period - it may take
a while for the newgroup message to propogate to you and for your news
administrator to create it, so don't expect to see it appear at
exactly that time.


Rationale and Charter
 
This group will exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and the
groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of stretching the capabilities of the
computer and showing off the programming, graphics, and music
composition skills of the authors of the demos. Generally this involves
showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the background.
Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders" -  If you
remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had scrolling text
demos with music.

**** These are _not_ demos of games or applications **** , such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the
authors of the demo.

**** This group is not for the posting of demos **** - the demos will
have to be obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail
server, or through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.	There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on Usenet,
and more who could get access).  They churn out quite a few demos and
have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Please do not confuse these demo groups with pirate groups.  These
groups exist for the sole purpose of creating demos (and games) and do
not engage in piracy.  Pirate group do occasionally create an
occasional small demo (a loader), but these are almost always of
extremely inferior quality.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these demos although there
are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The discussion
often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard (which is somewhat
inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive part of the
demos) or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't really fit in
any existing group.

They're not everybody's cup of tea, but the existence of so many demo
groups and those who follow them indicate quite a large following, which
the RFD for this group confirmed.  The Amiga demos group is quite
active, and we hope this one will be as well.


VOTE ACK

This is the list of voters.  I had to remove 6 duplicate yes votes and
2 duplicate no votes.  If you see any duplicates please post, although
it shouldn't make much difference in the overall totals barring
massive deception.

Voted for creation of the group:

[email protected] (LEBLANC ERIC)
[email protected] (Ryan King)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Tai Alan Chih)
Adam Cheal <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Amir Eliaz <[email protected]>
Andreas Henning <[email protected]>
Andrew Hilmer <[email protected]>
Andrew McCallum <[email protected]>
Andrew Robinson <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Anssi Saari <[email protected]>
Apollo Wong <[email protected]>
Arno Schaefer <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Aversa Fernando <[email protected]>
[email protected] (James Bothwell Avison)
[email protected] (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
B R Stragnell <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Chris Babcock)
BARREIRO ECHEVESTE <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Brien Voorhees)
[email protected] (Bjornar Elgsaether)
Bob Tarr <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Boerge Noest)
[email protected] (Tom Boutell)
[email protected] (Boleslaw Andrzej Rawicz)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Brian Murray)
[email protected] (Andrew James BROMAGE)
[email protected] (Peter Brown)
[email protected] (Bruce Jorgens )
[email protected] (John J. Brassil)
Buckaroo Banzai <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (Carlos Smith)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Robert Vargason)
Champion Marc <[email protected]>
Chris Harris <[email protected]>
Chris Marble <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Cord Beermann <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Rob Shady)
[email protected]
[email protected]
"Curtis M. Compton" <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Stephen R. Phillips)
"Dan Wright" <[email protected]>
"Daniel Falk"  <[email protected]>
"Daniel Sachs 708-833-3763" <[email protected]>
"Daniel Sjoeberg"  <[email protected]>
Daniel Starr <[email protected]>
[email protected] (David Conrad)
David Cornish <[email protected]>
David Datta <[email protected]>
"David J Dutcher-1" <[email protected]>
David Komatsu  <[email protected]>
David Reeve Sward <[email protected]>
David T Smith <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (9243089 De Jager PC)
[email protected] (Francois Dion)
[email protected] (David J Walton)
[email protected] (D. Keith Rice)
[email protected] (/usr/spool/mail/e92md)
[email protected]
"Elan Feingold" <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Elias 'CaveMan' Papavassilopoulos)
Erik 'legalize me' Soderstrom <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Jim)
[email protected] ( neil bergin xd/gk)
[email protected] (James Hague)
<[email protected]>
FOMBARON marc <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Palta Network's Chacal)
[email protected] (Tom Walcott)
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (George Lane)
[email protected] (Gabriel Moy)
[email protected] (George Patapis)
[email protected] (Ralph A. Graham)
Greg Sachs <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Morten Grouleff)
[email protected] (Unknown)
hal wayne black <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Lee Hamel)
[email protected] (Hamish Hubbard)
[email protected] (Mark Harrison)
Henrik Nordstrom <[email protected]>
"Hi, I'm Hoyt. What? Hoyt. What?!?!? H-O-Y-T. Oh..." <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Hitesh J. Jasani)
[email protected]
[email protected] (High Priest)
[email protected]
[email protected]
J GASKELL <[email protected]>
"James F. Kane III" <[email protected]>
James R Lendino <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jan Fagerstrom TG/HK)
Jari Petri Karjala <[email protected]>
Jarkko Tapio Heinonen <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Jason Burrell)
Jeff Gostin <[email protected]>
Jeff Miller <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Joseph George)
[email protected] ( John Henders )
Jim Nelson <[email protected]>
[email protected] (James Mckay)
[email protected] (Joao Carlos Pereira)
Jochen Kornitzky <[email protected]>
"Jochen Quante" <[email protected]>
"JOE COULSON, KY389 LTC-NORTH, 6-9712" <[email protected]>
John Herndon <[email protected]>
John PH Lee <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (Dark Knight)
[email protected]
[email protected] (John M. Stewart-)
[email protected] (Kai Howells)
[email protected] (Kevin Kramer)
Karhu Jouni <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Apostolos Karmirantzos)
[email protected] (K.E. Kindler )
[email protected] (Jarkko Kemppainen)
[email protected] (Lord Logics)
"Kevin Barrett" <[email protected]>
Kevin Dangoor <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Kimmo Hagelberg)
KHAN  NAJEEB MOHAMMED <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Baum, Kirk)
Kludge <[email protected]>
KOENIG gerald <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Matthias Krallmann)
"Krister Karlsson"  <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Nicolas Serres)
[email protected] (Jeff M Krusz)
[email protected] (Kijin Jung)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Lee Burley)
Louis Solomon <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Magnus Domeij Tek22)
Marc Rouleau <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Mike Arms)
Martin Morin <FM80%[email protected]>
Mats Anders Knip <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Mats Astrom)
Matt Schikore <[email protected]>
matthew berger <[email protected]>
"Matthew E. Bernold" <[email protected]>
MAVERICK <[email protected]>
[email protected] (mbfarah)
[email protected] (Mike Northam)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Karin Melberg)
menezes%[email protected] (Alexandre Folle de Menezes)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Mike Hatz)
Michael C Landauer <[email protected]>
"Michael L. Kaufman" <[email protected]>
Michael Quinn <[email protected]>
Michael Sutter  <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Mike Battersby)
[email protected] ( )
"MIDNIGHT COWBOY" <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Mike Fields)
[email protected] (Marko Mikkola , 931-2407 478)
Moonrise Programmer <[email protected]>
Morgan Stair <[email protected]>
Moss A D <[email protected]>
[email protected] (William Moxley)
[email protected] (Manuel J. Petit de Gabriel)
[email protected] (The Frenchman)
"N." Bing Bradshaw <[email protected]>
Neil Madden <[email protected]>
Nirva tOOmish <[email protected]>
Noel Bovens <FPAAU11%[email protected]>
[email protected] (Nancy Rabinowitz)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Iain Odlin)
[email protected] (Oliver White)
Otter <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Patrick Aalto <[email protected]>
Paul Cunnell <[email protected]>
Paul Greve <[email protected]>
Paul Robinson <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Philip Arthur White)
[email protected]
[email protected]
Pentti Lahdenper{ <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Perron Guillaume)
Peter Arien <LAAAA43%[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (The Man Behind The Curtain)
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (David Pridie)
"Prince/TPK" <FM01%[email protected]>
[email protected] (W.AUZINGER(Praktikum bis 93-03-01))
[email protected]
[email protected] (Raphael Pungin)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Father Time)
R Andrew Hayden <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Ron Dippold)
[email protected] (David DeSimone)
[email protected]
RH Schone <[email protected]>
Robert Ruthven <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Dave Roberts)
[email protected] (Doug Luecke)
[email protected] (Rohan Talip)
[email protected] (David A. Braun)
Roman Bartke <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Richard Schaaf)
[email protected] (Randy W. Stoller)
[email protected]
RUAUD stephane <[email protected]>
[email protected] (RUNE HALFDAN HOLST HUSEBY)
[email protected]
Ryan Bayne <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Jeffrey Bob Berthiaume)
[email protected] ([email protected] +43 1 81111-2316)
scarnie%[email protected] (Stuart George Carnie)
[email protected] (Street Rat)
Shula Ben-Asher <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Silk Merchant)
SIT  ANDREW <[email protected]>
[email protected] (wReam)
Smith R J <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Sami Nieminen)
Spooky Electric <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Stefan Sundstr|m <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Steve Demuth)
Steven T Chiang <[email protected]>
[email protected]
Stig Arne Olsen <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Stephen Frederick Timson)
Svante Str|mvall <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Swa Frantzen)
[email protected] (Siegfried Hirsch)
[email protected] (Taero Patterson)
Talkie Toaster <[email protected]>
Tall Cool One  <[email protected]>
Terry Marshall <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Aaron Grier)
"There can be only one." <CT64%[email protected]CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
"Thomas D Gasser-1" <[email protected]> (Thomas D.Gasser)
"Tim Triemstra" <[email protected]>
Tod B Bussert <[email protected]>
Tomi Holger Engdahl <[email protected]>
Tony Dragozet <[email protected]>
Tony Wilson <[email protected]>
Torben Thellefsen Nielsen <[email protected]>
tord faeroy <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Torsten Koeppe)
[email protected] (Troy Morrison)
trux%[email protected] (Chris Rende)
"TTT"  <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Todd Elwardt)
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (Carlos Y. Villalpando)
[email protected]
VAZQUEZ GALLARDO <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Kirk Membry)
[email protected] (Jerry van Waardenberg)
[email protected]
[email protected]
Xander Wemmers <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Zhahai Stewart)

Voted against creation of the group:

[email protected] (ADRIAN KOK)
[email protected] (Andre Lehovich)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Andre Arianto Nurwono)
[email protected] (Andrew Finkenstadt)
[email protected] (Brian TroxeLL)
[email protected] (Jan Brittenson)
[email protected] (Michael Burke)
Burt N Holzman <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Dave Carr)
[email protected] (Chip Rosenthal)
[email protected] (Claude Huss)
David E. Goggin <dt4%[email protected]>
Doug <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Edward Bertsch)
[email protected] (Erik Hilsdale)
[email protected] (Ed McGuire)
"Eric J. Olson" <[email protected]>
Ernest A. Cline <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Ed Wilts)
[email protected] (Gregory C Franklin )
Fred Bent <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Gregory G. Woodbury)
[email protected] (Oliver Fink)
[email protected] (Steve Hollasch)
[email protected]
IBM AS/400 Partnership at Mankato State University <[email protected]>
[email protected] (John Duncan)
[email protected] (Randell Jesup)
Jesus Eugenio S nchez Pe~a <[email protected]>
[email protected] (John Hopkins)
[email protected] (Jay Maynard)
[email protected]
Joshua Randall <[email protected]>
Ken Fishkin <[email protected]>
Kenneth Herron <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Kevin Lu)
[email protected]
Marc Moorcroft <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Craig Presnell)
[email protected]
[email protected] (Jeff Meyer)
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (Bill Owens)
Parik Rao <[email protected]>
Patrick Tufts <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Paul S. Kedrosky)
[email protected] (Richard H. Miller)
Roland Kaltefleiter <[email protected]>
[email protected]
[email protected] (Steve Rogers)
Stephen Lau <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Stu Labovitz)
"Sven M. Heinicke" <[email protected]>
Thomas Wang <[email protected]>
Tom Swingle <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Stephen C. Trier)
[email protected] (Michael Warning)
[email protected] (Scott E Flowers)
-- 
Union:  A group which takes the average working Joe, busting his hump 50 weeks
of the year in a factory, and gives him the power to spend one of those weeks
carrying a picket sign around in the rain outside that factory.

 
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