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Demos ( comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos )
 
From rdippold@qualcomm.com Thu Feb 28 23:45:33 1993
Xref: newshost.uwo.ca news.announce.newgroups:2916 news.groups:60471 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:7627 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:33786 comp.os.msdos.programmer:21310 rec.games.programmer:9562
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!bounce-back
From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: RFD: comp.sys.ibm.pc.groupdemos
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 28 Jan 1993 23:45:33 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 59
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REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

  Create an UNMODERATED Usenet newsgroup called comp.sys.ibm.pc.groupdemos

  This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have 
  interest in the discussion about the new group; follow-up discussion will
  take place in 'news.groups' and replies are forwarded to there. 

This group would exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and
the groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, the
music and graphics involved in the demos, and anything else pertaining
to them.

Group demos are graphics and sound demonstration programs which exist
mostly for the purpose of showing off the programming, graphics, and
music composition skills of the authors of the demos.  Generally this
involves showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the
background.  Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders"
- If you remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had
scrolling message demos with music.

These are _not_ demos of games or applications, such as a shareware
game, word processor, or operating system.  These are self-contained
and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the authors of
the demo.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.  There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on
Usenet, and more who could get access), and they churn out quite a few
demos and have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these, demos although
there are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The
discussion often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard, which is
somewhat inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive
part of the demos, or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't
really fit in any existing group.

This group is not for the posting of demos - the demos will have to be
obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail server, or
through the binaries groups.

I already sent out an earlier "feeler" message on a few related groups
to see if there was any interest in such a group, and have recieved a
large volume of mail in support, enough that I feel the effort of
creating the group is a worthwhile thing.  The name "groupdemos" is
not the most beautiful thing in the world, but we realize that the
simple name of "demos" will result in massive confusion with the large
number of software product demos.

If we can reach a reasonable consensus on the above in 30 days or
less, I will send out the CFV for a four week vote on the matter.
Eager beavers should NOT ask me how to vote or try to vote until the
CFV is issued - no vote recieved before then is valid.
-- 
The budget is a mythical bean bag.  Congress votes mythical beans into it,
and then tries to reach in and pull real beans out. -- Will Rogers

From rdippold@qualcomm.com Thu Feb 18 23:11:52 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: 2nd RFD: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 15 Feb 1993 20:08:01 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
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Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3249 news.groups:66740 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:8585 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:36881 comp.os.msdos.programmer:22372 rec.games.programmer:10876

[ The big difference here is that the name has been changed ]

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

  Create an UNMODERATED Usenet newsgroup called comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos

  This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have 
  interest in the discussion about the new group; follow-up discussion will
  take place in 'news.groups'. 

This group would exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and
the groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of showing off the programming,
graphics, and music composition skills of the authors of the demos.
Generally this involves showing off graphics tricks while music plays
in the background.  Smaller version of these are sometimes known as
"loaders" -  If you remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of
software had scrolling text demos with music.

These are _not_ demos of games or applications, such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of
the authors of the demo.

This group is not for the posting of demos - the demos will have to be
obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail server, or
through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.  There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on
Usenet, and more who could get access), and they churn out quite a few
demos and have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these, demos although
there are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The
discussion often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard, which is
somewhat inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive
part of the demos, or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't
really fit in any existing group.

The previous RFD was very well recieved, except for the bletcherous
name of csip.groupdemos, which I hated but thought was necessary.
There seems to be a consensus with which I now agree that csipg.demos
will be fine - it should be obvious from the FAQs and discussions
what's being discussed.

The proposal has recieved strong report, so if there are no
serious objections to the above I will send out the CFV for a four
week vote on the matter.
-- 
Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings.

From rdippold@qualcomm.com Tue Feb 23 23:42:25 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: CFV: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
Followup-To: poster
Date: 23 Feb 1993 15:34:22 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
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Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3285 news.groups:67309 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:9100 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:38298 comp.os.msdos.programmer:22659 rec.games.programmer:11060

This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have
interest in the candidate group; follow-ups are sent to the original
poster.  If you must discuss something here in public, it should take
place in 'news.groups'

Read below for the group charter.
 
VOTING

You should send MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to

      rdippold@qualcomm.com

(just replying by MAIL to this message should work).  Your mail
message should contain one and only one of the following statements:

      I vote YES on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
or
      I vote NO on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos

You may add a comment, but anything other than a definite statement
involving "comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos" will be ignored as far as voting
goes, and any vote that states "I vote xxx on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
if..." will not be counted.

One vote per person.  If you change your mind, your last vote received
will be the vote that counts.  Multiple votes from multiple accounts
for one person are ineligible.


VOTING RESULTS

The voting period will run from the time of this posting till 11:59:59
PM, Tuesday, March 23, 1993.  Anything recieved after this time will be
ineligible.  Results will be posted on Friday, March 26.

Within this period I will be making two additional Call For Vote
postings.  At these times I will list all voters (without indicating
their votes).  For the final results, the votes will be listed by vote.
If the group passes by at least 100 votes and if at least two thirds of
the votes are for group creation, and there are no questions raised
about the vote, the group will be created by the newsgroups moderator
after the prescribed period of 5 days.


VOTE TAKER NOTES

I RFDed, CFVed, and am now taking the votes for this group. This is
not unusual, but can lead to potentially nasty situations.  As I want
to avoid any impropriety in the vote, any lengthy flamewars, or
anything else that might tangle the group in controversy:

As of the time this CFV is posted, I will cease to campaign for or
against this group, in public or in private.  I will answer
questions about the group and point interested parties to the CFVs,
but will not advocate that they vote for or against it.


Rationale and Charter
 
This group will exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and the
groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of stretching the capabilities of the
computer and showing off the programming, graphics, and music
composition skills of the authors of the demos. Generally this involves
showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the background.
Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders" -  If you
remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had scrolling text
demos with music.

**** These are _not_ demos of games or applications **** , such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the
authors of the demo.

This group is not for the posting of demos - the demos will have to be
obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail server, or
through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.	There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on Usenet,
and more who could get access).  They churn out quite a few demos and
have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these demos although there
are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The discussion
often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard (which is somewhat
inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive part of the
demos) or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't really fit in
any existing group.

They're not everybody's cup of tea, but the existence of so many demo
groups and those who follow them indicate quite a large following, which
the RFD for this group confirmed.  The Amiga demos group is quite
active, and we hope this one will be as well.
-- 
Our major obligation is not to mistake slogans for solutions. -- Murrow

From rdippold@qualcomm.com Wed Mar 10 21:08:16 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: 2nd CFV and VOTE ACK: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
Followup-To: poster
Date: 3 Mar 1993 23:53:09 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 269
Sender: tale@rodan.UU.NET
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <1n41vlINNhod@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3322 news.groups:67537 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:9580 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:39755 comp.os.msdos.programmer:22920 rec.games.programmer:11242

If you have already voted on this issue, do NOT vote again unless
you've changed your mind - but you should check the list of posters at
the end of this note to see if you are in there.

This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have
interest in the candidate group; follow-ups are sent to the original
poster.  If you must discuss something here in public, it should take
place in 'news.groups'

Read below for the group charter.

 
VOTING

You should send MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to

      rdippold@qualcomm.com

(just replying by MAIL to this message should work).  Your mail
message should contain one and only one of the following statements:

      I vote YES on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
or
      I vote NO on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos

You may add a comment, but anything other than a definite statement
involving "comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos" will be ignored as far as voting
goes, and any vote that states "I vote xxx on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
if..." will not be counted.

One vote per person.  If you change your mind, your last vote received
will be the vote that counts.  Multiple votes from multiple accounts
for one person are ineligible.


VOTING RESULTS

The voting period will run from the time of this posting till 11:59:59
PM, Tuesday, March 23, 1993.  Anything recieved after this time will be
ineligible.  Results will be posted on Friday, March 26.

Within this period I will be making two additional Call For Vote
postings.  At these times I will list all voters (without indicating
their votes).  For the final results, the votes will be listed by vote.
If the group passes by at least 100 votes and if at least two thirds of
the votes are for group creation, and there are no questions raised
about the vote, the group will be created by the newsgroups moderator
after the prescribed period of 5 days.


VOTE TAKER NOTES

I RFDed, CFVed, and am now taking the votes for this group. This is
not unusual, but can lead to potentially nasty situations.  As I want
to avoid any impropriety in the vote, any lengthy flamewars, or
anything else that might tangle the group in controversy:

As of the time this CFV is posted, I will cease to campaign for or
against this group, in public or in private.  I will answer
questions about the group and point interested parties to the CFVs,
but will not advocate that they vote for or against it.


Rationale and Charter
 
This group will exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and the
groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of stretching the capabilities of the
computer and showing off the programming, graphics, and music
composition skills of the authors of the demos. Generally this involves
showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the background.
Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders" -  If you
remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had scrolling text
demos with music.

**** These are _not_ demos of games or applications **** , such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the
authors of the demo.

This group is not for the posting of demos - the demos will have to be
obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail server, or
through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.	There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on Usenet,
and more who could get access).  They churn out quite a few demos and
have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Please do not confuse these demo groups with pirate groups.  These
groups exist for the sole purpose of creating demos (and games) and do
not engage in piracy.  Pirate group do occasionally create an
occasional small demo (a loader), but these are almost always of
extremely inferior quality.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these demos although there
are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The discussion
often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard (which is somewhat
inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive part of the
demos) or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't really fit in
any existing group.

They're not everybody's cup of tea, but the existence of so many demo
groups and those who follow them indicate quite a large following, which
the RFD for this group confirmed.  The Amiga demos group is quite
active, and we hope this one will be as well.

This is the current list of people I think have voted:

9215247@info.umoncton.ca (LEBLANC ERIC)
aktang@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
al@stanley.cis.brown.edu (Andre Lehovich)
amberle@staff.tc.umn.edu
Andrew Robinson <robinson@cs.psu.edu>
andy@vistachrome.com (Andrew Finkenstadt)
avison@cheshire.oxy.edu (James Bothwell Avison)
AWALSH@mta.ca (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
B645ZMC@UTARLG.UTA.EDU
borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest)
boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell)
brian@audiofax.com (Brian TroxeLL)
brucej@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Bruce Jorgens )
bs428@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John J. Brassil)
bson@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jan Brittenson)
Burt N Holzman <burt+@cmu.edu>
carr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Dave Carr)
ccastge@prism.gatech.edu
chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal)
Chris Harris <C.Harris@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Chris Marble <CMARBLE@HMCVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Cord Beermann <cord92@fhlip.ee.fh-lippe.de>
cs_e420@ceres.kingston.ac.uk
cyberman@exuco1.exucom.com (Stephen R. Phillips)
"Dan Wright" <dmw@eel.ufl.edu>
"Daniel Falk"  <D91-FAD@trisse.hj.se>
"Daniel Sjoeberg"  <D91-SJD@trisse.hj.se>
Daniel Starr <starr-daniel@YALE.EDU>
David Cornish <daveco@ddbeano.dundee.NCR.COM>
David E. Goggin <dt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu>
"David J Dutcher-1" <dutc0006@student.tc.umn.edu>
David Reeve Sward <sward+@cmu.edu>
dtutelman@attmail.att.com
e92md@efd.lth.se (/usr/spool/mail/e92md)
"Elan Feingold" <elan@tasha.cheme.cornell.edu>
"Eric J. Olson" <ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu>
Erik 'legalize me' Soderstrom <t92eriso@und.ida.liu.se>
Ernest A. Cline <cline@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu>
etljmme@etlxd20.ericsson.se (Jim)
EWILTS@MARS.GOV.BC.CA (Ed Wilts)
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
<ferguson@gidday.enet.dec.com>
FOMBARON marc <Marc.Fombaron@ufrima.imag.fr>
friar@rattle.choate.edu (Tom Walcott)
glane@qualcomm.com (George Lane)
gmoy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Gabriel Moy)
Greg Sachs <gsachs@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
grouleff@daimi.aau.dk (Morten Grouleff)
gt2922a@prism.gatech.edu (Unknown)
Hamish_Hubbard@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hamish Hubbard)
harrison@lclark.edu (Mark Harrison)
Henrik Nordstrom <sp2henno@obelix.his.se>
hodgen@informatik.uni-koblenz.de
homebru!smith!dick@cs.uchicago.edu
hp@floor.uucp.risc.net (High Priest)
James R Lendino <jrl8@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>
Jari Petri Karjala <jka@Niksula.hut.fi>
Jason_Burrell@fcircus.sat.tx.us (Jason Burrell)
jduncan@prism.nmt.edu (John Duncan)
jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca ( John Henders )
Jim Nelson <jnelson@plains.NoDak.edu>
jmaynard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jay Maynard)
"JOE COULSON, KY389 LTC-NORTH, 6-9712" <COULSON_JOSEPH_E@LILLY.COM>
John Herndon <jherndo@eis.calstate.edu>
john@iastate.edu
Joshua Randall <randall-joshua@YALE.EDU>
jp5@ukc.ac.uk
jpsum00@ukpr.uky.edu (Dark Knight)
jrauser@staff.tc.umn.edu
Karhu Jouni <k113651@cc.tut.fi>
kekims@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.E. Kindler )
kemu@zombie.oulu.fi (Jarkko Kemppainen)
Ken Fishkin <fishkin@parc.xerox.com>
Kenneth Herron <kherron@ms.uky.edu>
kevinlu@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Kevin Lu)
Kludge <kludge@u.washington.edu>
KOENIG gerald <Gerald.Koenig@ufrima.imag.fr>
krusz@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Jeff M Krusz)
Larsenbr@max.cc.uregina.ca
lee_b@oldham.gpsemi.com (Lee Burley)
Louis Solomon <louis_rs@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
magnus@park1.park.se (Magnus Domeij Tek22)
Marc Moorcroft <smarry@zooid.guild.org>
Marc Rouleau <mer6g@fuggles.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Matt Schikore <schikore@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu>
"Matthew E. Bernold" <MEB117@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
meshreki@ee.udel.edu
mhatz@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Hatz)
Michael Quinn <MJQUINN@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
michaelb@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mike Battersby)
MMIKKOLA@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi (Marko Mikkola , 931-2407 478)
Moonrise Programmer <yu-d@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Morgan Stair <Morgan_Stair@dl5000.bc.edu>
mox@vpnet.chi.il.us (William Moxley)
mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu
mtbouchard@ucdavis.edu (The Frenchman)
neilb@borris.eece.unm.edu
Noel Bovens <FPAAU11%BLEKUL11.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
nrabinow@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Nancy Rabinowitz)
nv90-ped@nada.kth.se
oliver@coombs.anu.edu.au (Oliver White)
over-ddu@nada.kth.se
owens@cookiemonster.cc.buffalo.edu (Bill Owens)
Parik Rao <uprao@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu>
Paul Cunnell <pcunnell@micrognosis.co.uk>
Paul Greve <pgreve@cs.ruu.nl>
pawhite@okanagan.bc.ca (Philip Arthur White)
pinky@tamu.edu (The Man Behind The Curtain)
pkedrosk@student.business.uwo.ca (Paul S. Kedrosky)
pwhb@ukc.ac.uk
R Andrew Hayden <rahayden@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu>
rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Reply-To: mbn@orglobe.intel.com (Mike Northam)
RH Schone <holly@kauri.vuw.ac.nz>
rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Robert Ruthven <robert@hektar.welly.gen.nz>
Roberto@sunsci.cern.ch
roberts@brahms.amd.com (Dave Roberts)
Roland Kaltefleiter <kaltef@theo-physik.uni-kiel.dbp.de>
roland@paul.choate.edu (David A. Braun)
rstolle@eis.calstate.edu (Randy W. Stoller)
runehh@dhhalden.no (RUNE HALFDAN HOLST HUSEBY)
Ryan Bayne <ryan.bayne@canrem.com>
SAMSEGGER@kapsch.co.at (Wolfgang.Samsegger@kapsch.co.at +43 1 81111-2316)
sheldon@iastate.edu
Shula Ben-Asher <s1632739@techst02.technion.ac.il>
silk@grimaldi.rutgers.edu (Silk Merchant)
SL859@CC.USU.EDU (wReam)
srogers@tad.eds.com (Steve Rogers)
Stephen Lau <lau@ai.sri.com>
Steve_Demuth@aldhfn.akron.oh.us (Steve Demuth)
Steven T Chiang <stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu>
stu@valinor.mythical.com (Stu Labovitz)
taip@netcom.com (Taero Patterson)
Talkie Toaster <ma92hdm@brunel.ac.uk>
Tall Cool One  <rky57514@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
tfinn@crash.cts.com (Aaron Grier)
"Thomas D Gasser-1" <thomasg@staff.tc.umn.edu> (Thomas D.Gasser)
"Tim Triemstra" <empath@ais.org>
Tod B Bussert <tbbusser@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Tom Swingle <tswingle@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>
Tony Wilson <wilson@stc.nato.int>
troy@graphon.com (Troy Morrison)
trux%car@ph.gmr.com (Chris Rende)
"TTT"  <D91-IVT@trisse.hj.se>
v912236@brabander.si.hhs.nl
viamar!kmembry@rutgers.edu (Kirk Membry)
warninm@instruction.CS.ORST.EDU (Michael Warning)
WILSONEB@CNSVAX.UWEC.EDU
Xander Wemmers <xawemmer@cs.ruu.nl>
zorak@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott E Flowers)
zstewart@nyx.cs.du.edu (Zhahai Stewart)
-- 
In the end, one or the other will triumph -- a funeral dirge will be sung over
the Soviet republic or over world capitalism. -- V.I. Lenin, 1920

From rdippold@qualcomm.com Thu Mar 11 11:35:17 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: 3rd CFV and VOTE ACK: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
Followup-To: poster
Date: 11 Mar 1993 01:38:34 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 365
Sender: tale@rodan.UU.NET
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <1nmmpaINN5bi@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3346 news.groups:67886 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:10058 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:41336 comp.os.msdos.programmer:23149 rec.games.programmer:11406

If you have already voted on this issue, do NOT vote again unless
you've changed your mind - but you should check the list of posters at
the end of this note to see if you are in there.

This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have
interest in the candidate group; follow-ups are sent to the original
poster.  If you must discuss something here in public, it should take
place in 'news.groups'

Read below for the group charter.

 
VOTING

You should send MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to

      rdippold@qualcomm.com

(just replying by MAIL to this message should work).  Your mail
message should contain one and only one of the following statements:

      I vote YES on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
or
      I vote NO on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos

You may add a comment, but anything other than a definite statement
involving "comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos" will be ignored as far as voting
goes, and any vote that states "I vote xxx on comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos
if..." will not be counted.

One vote per person.  If you change your mind, your last vote received
will be the vote that counts.  Multiple votes from multiple accounts
for one person are ineligible.


VOTING RESULTS

The voting period will run from the time of this posting till 11:59:59
PM, Tuesday, March 23, 1993.  Anything recieved after this time will be
ineligible.  Results will be posted on Friday, March 26.

Within this period I will be making two additional Call For Vote
postings.  At these times I will list all voters (without indicating
their votes).  For the final results, the votes will be listed by vote.
If the group passes by at least 100 votes and if at least two thirds of
the votes are for group creation, and there are no questions raised
about the vote, the group will be created by the newsgroups moderator
after the prescribed period of 5 days.


VOTE TAKER NOTES

I RFDed, CFVed, and am now taking the votes for this group. This is
not unusual, but can lead to potentially nasty situations.  As I want
to avoid any impropriety in the vote, any lengthy flamewars, or
anything else that might tangle the group in controversy:

As of the time this CFV is posted, I will cease to campaign for or
against this group, in public or in private.  I will answer
questions about the group and point interested parties to the CFVs,
but will not advocate that they vote for or against it.


Rationale and Charter
 
This group will exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and the
groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of stretching the capabilities of the
computer and showing off the programming, graphics, and music
composition skills of the authors of the demos. Generally this involves
showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the background.
Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders" -  If you
remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had scrolling text
demos with music.

**** These are _not_ demos of games or applications **** , such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the
authors of the demo.

**** This group is not for the posting of demos **** - the demos will
have to be obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail
server, or through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.	There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on Usenet,
and more who could get access).  They churn out quite a few demos and
have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Please do not confuse these demo groups with pirate groups.  These
groups exist for the sole purpose of creating demos (and games) and do
not engage in piracy.  Pirate group do occasionally create an
occasional small demo (a loader), but these are almost always of
extremely inferior quality.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these demos although there
are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The discussion
often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard (which is somewhat
inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive part of the
demos) or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't really fit in
any existing group.

They're not everybody's cup of tea, but the existence of so many demo
groups and those who follow them indicate quite a large following, which
the RFD for this group confirmed.  The Amiga demos group is quite
active, and we hope this one will be as well.

This is the current list of people I think have voted as of Monday,
March 8:

9215247@info.umoncton.ca (LEBLANC ERIC)
a.bateman@ic.ac.uk
Adam Cheal <i3y092@rick.cs.ubc.ca>
aktang@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
al@stanley.cis.brown.edu (Andre Lehovich)
amberle@staff.tc.umn.edu
Amir Eliaz <eliaz@techunix.technion.ac.il>
Andreas Henning <d2henan@dtek.chalmers.se>
Andrew Hilmer <hilmera@storm.CS.ORST.EDU>
Andrew Robinson <robinson@cs.psu.edu>
andy@vistachrome.com (Andrew Finkenstadt)
Arno Schaefer <schaefer@castor.imag.fr>
aurs01!aurw7a!benningf@concert.net
avison@cheshire.oxy.edu (James Bothwell Avison)
AWALSH@mta.ca (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
B R Stragnell <ma1brs@ss1.bath.ac.uk>
B645ZMC@UTARLG.UTA.EDU
Bob Tarr <tarr@umbc.edu>
borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest)
boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell)
Brett.Kingswell@lambada.oit.unc.edu
brian@audiofax.com (Brian TroxeLL)
brucej@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Bruce Jorgens )
bs428@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John J. Brassil)
bson@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jan Brittenson)
Buckaroo Banzai <ez003145@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
Burt N Holzman <burt+@cmu.edu>
C09615DK@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu
carlos@tick.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carlos Smith)
carr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Dave Carr)
ccastge@prism.gatech.edu
chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal)
Chris Harris <C.Harris@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Chris Marble <CMARBLE@HMCVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
cniekel@cs.vu.nl
Cord Beermann <cord92@fhlip.ee.fh-lippe.de>
cphag@vnet.ibm.com
cs_e420@ceres.kingston.ac.uk
cyberman@exuco1.exucom.com (Stephen R. Phillips)
"Dan Wright" <dmw@eel.ufl.edu>
"Daniel Falk"  <D91-FAD@trisse.hj.se>
"Daniel Sachs 708-833-3763" <U23783@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
"Daniel Sjoeberg"  <D91-SJD@trisse.hj.se>
Daniel Starr <starr-daniel@YALE.EDU>
David Cornish <daveco@ddbeano.dundee.NCR.COM>
David Datta <datta@cs.uwp.edu>
David E. Goggin <dt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu>
"David J Dutcher-1" <dutc0006@student.tc.umn.edu>
David Reeve Sward <sward+@cmu.edu>
dcw1@ukc.ac.uk
dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Doug <wedman@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
dtutelman@attmail.att.com
e92md@efd.lth.se (/usr/spool/mail/e92md)
eab@msc.edu (Edward Bertsch)
eh@tune.cs.columbia.edu (Erik Hilsdale)
"Elan Feingold" <elan@tasha.cheme.cornell.edu>
emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
ep104@cus.cam.ac.uk (Elias 'CaveMan' Papavassilopoulos)
"Eric J. Olson" <ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu>
Erik 'legalize me' Soderstrom <t92eriso@und.ida.liu.se>
Ernest A. Cline <cline@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu>
etljmme@etlxd20.ericsson.se (Jim)
etlnbb@etlxd20.ericsson.se ( neil bergin xd/gk)
EWILTS@MARS.GOV.BC.CA (Ed Wilts)
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
<ferguson@gidday.enet.dec.com>
FOMBARON marc <Marc.Fombaron@ufrima.imag.fr>
francisc@vallenar.ing.puc.cl (Palta Network's Chacal)
franklig@GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU (Gregory C Franklin )
friar@rattle.choate.edu (Tom Walcott)
FSSPR@acad3.alaska.edu
gabrielj@sfu.ca
ggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US (Gregory G. Woodbury)
gjr@ukc.ac.uk
glane@qualcomm.com (George Lane)
gmoy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Gabriel Moy)
Greg Sachs <gsachs@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
grouleff@daimi.aau.dk (Morten Grouleff)
gt2922a@prism.gatech.edu (Unknown)
Hamish_Hubbard@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hamish Hubbard)
harrison@lclark.edu (Mark Harrison)
Henrik Nordstrom <sp2henno@obelix.his.se>
"Hi, I'm Hoyt. What? Hoyt. What?!?!? H-O-Y-T. Oh..." <SLQN0@CC.USU.EDU>
hitesh.jasani@sdrc.com (Hitesh J. Jasani)
hodgen@informatik.uni-koblenz.de
homebru!smith!dick@cs.uchicago.edu
hp@floor.uucp.risc.net (High Priest)
hung@husc.harvard.edu
IBM AS/400 Partnership at Mankato State University <CSAS400@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU>
"James F. Kane III" <jfk2@engr.uark.edu>
James R Lendino <jrl8@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>
Jari Petri Karjala <jka@Niksula.hut.fi>
Jarkko Tapio Heinonen <jtheinon@cc.helsinki.fi>
Jason_Burrell@fcircus.sat.tx.us (Jason Burrell)
jduncan@prism.nmt.edu (John Duncan)
Jeff Gostin <jgostin@eternal.chi.il.us>
Jeff Miller <jmiller@hp1.terra.colostate.edu>
jeff@hpl4-d.hpl.hp.com
Jesus Eugenio S nchez Pe~a <al198723@academ01.mty.itesm.mx>
jgeorge@whiffer.atl.ga.us (Joseph George)
jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca ( John Henders )
jhopkins@cbacc.cba.uga.edu (John Hopkins)
Jim Nelson <jnelson@plains.NoDak.edu>
jmaynard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jay Maynard)
Jochen Kornitzky <korni@sietec1.sietec.de>
"Jochen Quante" <UKR8@IBM3090.RZ.UNI-KARLSRUHE.DBP.DE>
"JOE COULSON, KY389 LTC-NORTH, 6-9712" <COULSON_JOSEPH_E@LILLY.COM>
John Herndon <jherndo@eis.calstate.edu>
john@iastate.edu
Joshua Randall <randall-joshua@YALE.EDU>
jp5@ukc.ac.uk
jpl@fct.unl.pt
jpsum00@ukpr.uky.edu (Dark Knight)
jrauser@staff.tc.umn.edu
jstewart@sdl.psych.wright.edu (John M. Stewart-)
Karhu Jouni <k113651@cc.tut.fi>
kekims@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.E. Kindler )
kemu@zombie.oulu.fi (Jarkko Kemppainen)
Ken Fishkin <fishkin@parc.xerox.com>
Kenneth Herron <kherron@ms.uky.edu>
"Kevin Barrett" <kpb@beach.cis.ufl.edu>
Kevin Dangoor <tazzzzz@eecs.umich.edu>
kevinlu@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Kevin Lu)
Kirk_Baum@Novell.COM (Baum, Kirk)
Kludge <kludge@u.washington.edu>
KOENIG gerald <Gerald.Koenig@ufrima.imag.fr>
krallman@cs.uni-sb.de (Matthias Krallmann)
"Krister Karlsson"  <SA229@NOV.HB.SE>
kroc@email.teaser.com (Nicolas Serres)
krusz@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Jeff M Krusz)
kxj6@po.CWRU.Edu (Kijin Jung)
Larsenbr@max.cc.uregina.ca
lee_b@oldham.gpsemi.com (Lee Burley)
Louis Solomon <louis_rs@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
lundberg@blaze.cs.jhu.edu
magnus@park1.park.se (Magnus Domeij Tek22)
Marc Moorcroft <smarry@zooid.guild.org>
Marc Rouleau <mer6g@fuggles.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Matt Schikore <schikore@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu>
"Matthew E. Bernold" <MEB117@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
maus@olias.linet.org
mcp@lester.appstate.edu (Craig Presnell)
meshreki@ee.udel.edu
mhatz@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Hatz)
mhatz@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Hatz)
Michael C Landauer <mlandaue@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu>
Michael Quinn <MJQUINN@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
Michael Sutter  <msutter@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu>
michaelb@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mike Battersby)
mikey@shuksan.boeing.com (Mike Fields)
MMIKKOLA@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi (Marko Mikkola , 931-2407 478)
Moonrise Programmer <yu-d@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Morgan Stair <Morgan_Stair@dl5000.bc.edu>
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Moss A D <mossap@essex.ac.uk>
mox@vpnet.chi.il.us (William Moxley)
mpetit@dit.upm.es (Manuel J. Petit de Gabriel)
mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu
mtbouchard@ucdavis.edu (The Frenchman)
Neil Madden <ecvu28@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk>
neilb@borris.eece.unm.edu
Noel Bovens <FPAAU11%BLEKUL11.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
nrabinow@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Nancy Rabinowitz)
nv90-ped@nada.kth.se
odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
oliver@coombs.anu.edu.au (Oliver White)
Otter <3s690aai@cs.ukans.edu>
over-ddu@nada.kth.se
owens@cookiemonster.cc.buffalo.edu (Bill Owens)
Parik Rao <uprao@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu>
Patrick Aalto <ap@jyu.fi>
Paul Cunnell <pcunnell@micrognosis.co.uk>
Paul Greve <pgreve@cs.ruu.nl>
Paul Robinson <tdarcos@access.digex.com>
pawhite@okanagan.bc.ca (Philip Arthur White)
perrong@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Perron Guillaume)
Peter Arien <LAAAA43%BLEKUL11.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
phantom@diku.dk
pinky@tamu.edu (The Man Behind The Curtain)
pjunold@daimi.aau.dk
pkedrosk@student.business.uwo.ca (Paul S. Kedrosky)
pochol@lifl.fr
pwhb@ukc.ac.uk
qle@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Father Time)
R Andrew Hayden <rahayden@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu>
rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Reply-To: mbn@orglobe.intel.com (Mike Northam)
RH Schone <holly@kauri.vuw.ac.nz>
rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Robert Ruthven <robert@hektar.welly.gen.nz>
Roberto@sunsci.cern.ch
roberts@brahms.amd.com (Dave Roberts)
Roland Kaltefleiter <kaltef@theo-physik.uni-kiel.dbp.de>
roland@paul.choate.edu (David A. Braun)
rstolle@eis.calstate.edu (Randy W. Stoller)
rtdavis@ucdavis.edu
runehh@dhhalden.no (RUNE HALFDAN HOLST HUSEBY)
rune-w@johanna4.hsr.no
Ryan Bayne <ryan.bayne@canrem.com>
SAMSEGGER@kapsch.co.at (Wolfgang.Samsegger@kapsch.co.at +43 1 81111-2316)
scarnie%pieman@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au (Stuart George Carnie)
sheldon@iastate.edu
Shula Ben-Asher <s1632739@techst02.technion.ac.il>
silk@grimaldi.rutgers.edu (Silk Merchant)
SIT  ANDREW <sita@ecf.toronto.edu>
SL859@CC.USU.EDU (wReam)
sn@phoenix.oulu.fi (Sami Nieminen)
Spooky Electric <ad_bibby@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk>
srogers@tad.eds.com (Steve Rogers)
Stefan Sundstr|m <d2sunst@dtek.chalmers.se>
Stephen Lau <lau@ai.sri.com>
Steve_Demuth@aldhfn.akron.oh.us (Steve Demuth)
Steven T Chiang <stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu>
stevet@cblpn.att.com
Stig Arne Olsen <stigo@ifi.uio.no>
stu@valinor.mythical.com (Stu Labovitz)
"Sven M. Heinicke" <sven@cs.widener.edu>
Swa.Frantzen@cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Swa Frantzen)
swh@hhska.ka.sub.org (Siegfried Hirsch)
taip@netcom.com (Taero Patterson)
Talkie Toaster <ma92hdm@brunel.ac.uk>
Tall Cool One  <rky57514@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Terry Marshall <Terry.Marshall@uk.cray.com>
tfinn@crash.cts.com (Aaron Grier)
"There can be only one." <CT64%POLYTEC1.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
"Thomas D Gasser-1" <thomasg@staff.tc.umn.edu> (Thomas D.Gasser)
"Tim Triemstra" <empath@ais.org>
Tod B Bussert <tbbusser@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Tom Swingle <tswingle@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>
Tony Dragozet <tony.dragozet@canrem.com>
Tony Wilson <wilson@stc.nato.int>
tord faeroy <tord.faeroy@kih.no>
trier@slc6.INS.CWRU.Edu (Stephen C. Trier)
troy@graphon.com (Troy Morrison)
trux%car@ph.gmr.com (Chris Rende)
"TTT"  <D91-IVT@trisse.hj.se>
u920533@daimi.aau.dk
umhaugh0@ccu.UManitoba.CA
unbelver@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Carlos Y. Villalpando)
v912236@brabander.si.hhs.nl
viamar!kmembry@rutgers.edu (Kirk Membry)
warninm@instruction.CS.ORST.EDU (Michael Warning)
WILSONEB@CNSVAX.UWEC.EDU
wity@iastate.edu
Xander Wemmers <xawemmer@cs.ruu.nl>
zorak@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott E Flowers)
zstewart@nyx.cs.du.edu (Zhahai Stewart)
-- 
The bigger they are, the harder they hit.

From rdippold@qualcomm.com Mon Mar 29 20:40:36 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games,comp.os.msdos.programmer,rec.games.programmer
Subject: RESULT: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos passes 286:63
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 26 Mar 1993 11:08:40 -0500
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Lines: 425
Sender: tale@rodan.UU.NET
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <1ov9q8INNanq@rodan.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3387 news.groups:68546 comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard:11022 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:45038 comp.os.msdos.programmer:23679 rec.games.programmer:11731

Voting for comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos is over.  It received 286 votes for
group creation and 63 against.  This is over four times as many yes
votes as no votes (two times is necessary) and 225 more yes votes as
no votes (100 is necessary).  Barring any complications, we hope to
see the group created at the end of the five day period - it may take
a while for the newgroup message to propogate to you and for your news
administrator to create it, so don't expect to see it appear at
exactly that time.


Rationale and Charter
 
This group will exist for the purpose of discussing group demos and the
groups behind these demos.  This involves membership issues, demo
ratings, discussion of special techniques, new demo announcements, and
anything else pertaining to them.

Group demos are graphics (and usually sound) demonstration programs
which exist mostly for the purpose of stretching the capabilities of the
computer and showing off the programming, graphics, and music
composition skills of the authors of the demos. Generally this involves
showing off graphics tricks while music plays in the background.
Smaller version of these are sometimes known as "loaders" -  If you
remember the old 8-bit days, many pieces of software had scrolling text
demos with music.

**** These are _not_ demos of games or applications **** , such as a new
shareware game, word processor, or operating system.  These are
self-contained and the only thing they are demoing is the skills of the
authors of the demo.

**** This group is not for the posting of demos **** - the demos will
have to be obtained through ftp (as is currently done), through a mail
server, or through the binaries groups.

Group demos may be produced by an individual, but usually are produced
by a demo group such as The Space Pigs or Renaissance.	There are at
least two dozen such groups for the IBM PC (many with members on Usenet,
and more who could get access).  They churn out quite a few demos and
have expressed interest in an international discussion forum.

Please do not confuse these demo groups with pirate groups.  These
groups exist for the sole purpose of creating demos (and games) and do
not engage in piracy.  Pirate group do occasionally create an
occasional small demo (a loader), but these are almost always of
extremely inferior quality.

Currently there is no place for discussion of these demos although there
are a few "official" demo respositories (ftp.uwp.edu).  The discussion
often ends up on comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard (which is somewhat
inappropriate in that sound is often the least impressive part of the
demos) or otherwise scattered around the net.  Demos don't really fit in
any existing group.

They're not everybody's cup of tea, but the existence of so many demo
groups and those who follow them indicate quite a large following, which
the RFD for this group confirmed.  The Amiga demos group is quite
active, and we hope this one will be as well.


VOTE ACK

This is the list of voters.  I had to remove 6 duplicate yes votes and
2 duplicate no votes.  If you see any duplicates please post, although
it shouldn't make much difference in the overall totals barring
massive deception.

Voted for creation of the group:

9215247@info.umoncton.ca (LEBLANC ERIC)
aa413@freenet.carleton.ca (Ryan King)
a.bateman@ic.ac.uk
actaix@mail.wm.edu (Tai Alan Chih)
Adam Cheal <i3y092@rick.cs.ubc.ca>
aktang@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
Amir Eliaz <eliaz@techunix.technion.ac.il>
Andreas Henning <d2henan@dtek.chalmers.se>
Andrew Hilmer <hilmera@storm.CS.ORST.EDU>
Andrew McCallum <andrewm@zooid.guild.org>
Andrew Robinson <robinson@cs.psu.edu>
andrew.delic@rose.com
Anssi Saari <s106275@cc.tut.fi>
Apollo Wong <apollo@ee.ualberta.ca>
Arno Schaefer <schaefer@castor.imag.fr>
aurs01!aurw7a!benningf@concert.net
Aversa Fernando <aversa@ictp.trieste.it>
avison@cheshire.oxy.edu (James Bothwell Avison)
AWALSH@mta.ca (Happy Happy Joy Joy)
B R Stragnell <ma1brs@ss1.bath.ac.uk>
B645ZMC@UTARLG.UTA.EDU
babcock@osl.csc.ncsu.edu (Chris Babcock)
BARREIRO ECHEVESTE <siabaeci@sisa00.si.ehu.es>
bbs.brienv@tsoft.net (Brien Voorhees)
bjornar@brosme.dhmolde.no (Bjornar Elgsaether)
Bob Tarr <tarr@umbc.edu>
borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest)
boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell)
brawicz@sfu.ca (Boleslaw Andrzej Rawicz)
Brett.Kingswell@lambada.oit.unc.edu
brianm@cbme.unsw.edu.au (Brian Murray)
bromage@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Andrew James BROMAGE)
brownp@dg-rtp.dg.com (Peter Brown)
brucej@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Bruce Jorgens )
bs428@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John J. Brassil)
Buckaroo Banzai <ez003145@hamlet.ucdavis.edu>
C09615DK@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu
cambler@cymbal.calpoly.edu
carlos@tick.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carlos Smith)
ccastge@prism.gatech.edu
cd879@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Vargason)
Champion Marc <champion@esial.u-nancy.fr>
Chris Harris <C.Harris@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Chris Marble <CMARBLE@HMCVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
cniekel@cs.vu.nl
Cord Beermann <cord92@fhlip.ee.fh-lippe.de>
cphag@vnet.ibm.com
crt@tiamat.umd.umich.edu (Rob Shady)
CS1DANTE@APSICC.APS.EDU
cs_e420@ceres.kingston.ac.uk
"Curtis M. Compton" <compton@plains.NoDak.edu>
cyberman@exuco1.exucom.com (Stephen R. Phillips)
"Dan Wright" <dmw@eel.ufl.edu>
"Daniel Falk"  <D91-FAD@trisse.hj.se>
"Daniel Sachs 708-833-3763" <U23783@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
"Daniel Sjoeberg"  <D91-SJD@trisse.hj.se>
Daniel Starr <starr-daniel@YALE.EDU>
dave@Tygra.Michigan.COM (David Conrad)
David Cornish <daveco@ddbeano.dundee.NCR.COM>
David Datta <datta@cs.uwp.edu>
"David J Dutcher-1" <dutc0006@student.tc.umn.edu>
David Komatsu  <davek@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu>
David Reeve Sward <sward+@cmu.edu>
David T Smith <ma90dts@brunel.ac.uk>
dcw1@ukc.ac.uk
dejagerp@itu.sun.ac.za (9243089 De Jager PC)
dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
djwalton@fajita.engr.ucdavis.edu (David J Walton)
drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (D. Keith Rice)
e92md@efd.lth.se (/usr/spool/mail/e92md)
ebu@snakemail.hut.fi
"Elan Feingold" <elan@tasha.cheme.cornell.edu>
ep104@cus.cam.ac.uk (Elias 'CaveMan' Papavassilopoulos)
Erik 'legalize me' Soderstrom <t92eriso@und.ida.liu.se>
ESOULVIE@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
etljmme@etlxd20.ericsson.se (Jim)
etlnbb@etlxd20.ericsson.se ( neil bergin xd/gk)
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
<ferguson@gidday.enet.dec.com>
FOMBARON marc <Marc.Fombaron@ufrima.imag.fr>
francisc@vallenar.ing.puc.cl (Palta Network's Chacal)
friar@rattle.choate.edu (Tom Walcott)
gabrielj@sfu.ca
garyg@Warren.MENTORG.COM
gjr@ukc.ac.uk
glane@qualcomm.com (George Lane)
gmoy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Gabriel Moy)
gpatapis@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (George Patapis)
graham@cs.utexas.edu (Ralph A. Graham)
Greg Sachs <gsachs@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
grouleff@daimi.aau.dk (Morten Grouleff)
gt2922a@prism.gatech.edu (Unknown)
hal wayne black <sylk@mik.uky.edu>
hamell@mailhost.cs.pdx.edu (Lee Hamel)
Hamish_Hubbard@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hamish Hubbard)
harrison@lclark.edu (Mark Harrison)
Henrik Nordstrom <sp2henno@obelix.his.se>
"Hi, I'm Hoyt. What? Hoyt. What?!?!? H-O-Y-T. Oh..." <SLQN0@CC.USU.EDU>
hitesh.jasani@sdrc.com (Hitesh J. Jasani)
hodgen@informatik.uni-koblenz.de
hp@floor.uucp.risc.net (High Priest)
hung@husc.harvard.edu
hyseto1@ie.cuhk.hk
J GASKELL <i910203@redgum.ucnv.edu.au>
"James F. Kane III" <jfk2@engr.uark.edu>
James R Lendino <jrl8@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>
janne@ericad.ericsson.se (Jan Fagerstrom TG/HK)
Jari Petri Karjala <jka@Niksula.hut.fi>
Jarkko Tapio Heinonen <jtheinon@cc.helsinki.fi>
Jason_Burrell@fcircus.sat.tx.us (Jason Burrell)
Jeff Gostin <jgostin@eternal.chi.il.us>
Jeff Miller <jmiller@hp1.terra.colostate.edu>
jeff@hpl4-d.hpl.hp.com
jgeorge@whiffer.atl.ga.us (Joseph George)
jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca ( John Henders )
Jim Nelson <jnelson@plains.NoDak.edu>
jjsmckay@okanagan.bc.ca (James Mckay)
joao@heroina.inesc.pt (Joao Carlos Pereira)
Jochen Kornitzky <korni@sietec1.sietec.de>
"Jochen Quante" <UKR8@IBM3090.RZ.UNI-KARLSRUHE.DBP.DE>
"JOE COULSON, KY389 LTC-NORTH, 6-9712" <COULSON_JOSEPH_E@LILLY.COM>
John Herndon <jherndo@eis.calstate.edu>
John PH Lee <plee@Panix.Com>
jp5@ukc.ac.uk
jpl@fct.unl.pt
jpsum00@ukpr.uky.edu (Dark Knight)
jrauser@staff.tc.umn.edu
jstewart@sdl.psych.wright.edu (John M. Stewart-)
kai_h@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Kai Howells)
kak1@cherry.cray.com (Kevin Kramer)
Karhu Jouni <k113651@cc.tut.fi>
karmira@falcon.natinst.com (Apostolos Karmirantzos)
kekims@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.E. Kindler )
kemu@zombie.oulu.fi (Jarkko Kemppainen)
ketrenoj@ucs.orst.edu (Lord Logics)
"Kevin Barrett" <kpb@beach.cis.ufl.edu>
Kevin Dangoor <tazzzzz@eecs.umich.edu>
khag@phoenix.oulu.fi (Kimmo Hagelberg)
KHAN  NAJEEB MOHAMMED <khann@ecf.toronto.edu>
Kirk_Baum@Novell.COM (Baum, Kirk)
Kludge <kludge@u.washington.edu>
KOENIG gerald <Gerald.Koenig@ufrima.imag.fr>
krallman@cs.uni-sb.de (Matthias Krallmann)
"Krister Karlsson"  <SA229@NOV.HB.SE>
kroc@email.teaser.com (Nicolas Serres)
krusz@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Jeff M Krusz)
kxj6@po.CWRU.Edu (Kijin Jung)
Larsenbr@max.cc.uregina.ca
lee_b@oldham.gpsemi.com (Lee Burley)
Louis Solomon <louis_rs@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
magnus@park1.park.se (Magnus Domeij Tek22)
Marc Rouleau <mer6g@fuggles.acc.Virginia.EDU>
marms@cs.unm.edu (Mike Arms)
Martin Morin <FM80%POLYTEC1.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Mats Anders Knip <mknip@Niksula.hut.fi>
mats.astrom@neurofys.uu.se (Mats Astrom)
Matt Schikore <schikore@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu>
matthew berger <bergerm@scrooge.ece.orst.edu>
"Matthew E. Bernold" <MEB117@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
MAVERICK <csh45059@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
mbfarah@isluga.puc.cl (mbfarah)
mbn@orglobe.intel.com (Mike Northam)
mecjt@adder.levels.unisa.edu.au
melberg@blue.rtsg.mot.com (Karin Melberg)
menezes%inf.UFRGS.BR@UICVM.UIC.EDU (Alexandre Folle de Menezes)
meshreki@ee.udel.edu
mhatz@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Hatz)
Michael C Landauer <mlandaue@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu>
"Michael L. Kaufman" <kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu>
Michael Quinn <MJQUINN@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
Michael Sutter  <msutter@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu>
michaelb@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mike Battersby)
michael@selway.umt.edu ( )
"MIDNIGHT COWBOY" <CVADRHAD@CSUPomona.Edu>
mikey@shuksan.boeing.com (Mike Fields)
MMIKKOLA@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi (Marko Mikkola , 931-2407 478)
Moonrise Programmer <yu-d@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Morgan Stair <Morgan_Stair@dl5000.bc.edu>
Moss A D <mossap@essex.ac.uk>
mox@vpnet.chi.il.us (William Moxley)
mpetit@dit.upm.es (Manuel J. Petit de Gabriel)
mtbouchard@ucdavis.edu (The Frenchman)
"N." Bing Bradshaw <cadp36@computer-centre-sun.strathclyde.ac.uk>
Neil Madden <ecvu28@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Nirva tOOmish <scc081dd@atlas.unm.edu>
Noel Bovens <FPAAU11%BLEKUL11.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
nrabinow@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Nancy Rabinowitz)
nv90-ped@nada.kth.se
odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
oliver@coombs.anu.edu.au (Oliver White)
Otter <3s690aai@cs.ukans.edu>
over-ddu@nada.kth.se
Patrick Aalto <ap@jyu.fi>
Paul Cunnell <pcunnell@micrognosis.co.uk>
Paul Greve <pgreve@cs.ruu.nl>
Paul Robinson <tdarcos@access.digex.com>
pawhite@okanagan.bc.ca (Philip Arthur White)
PCMEEHAN@vax1.tcd.ie
pearce@ist.ucf.edu
Pentti Lahdenper{ <pla@stekt.oulu.fi>
perrong@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Perron Guillaume)
Peter Arien <LAAAA43%BLEKUL11.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
phantom@diku.dk
pinky@tamu.edu (The Man Behind The Curtain)
pjunold@daimi.aau.dk
ploof@uvm-gen.EMBA.UVM.EDU
pochol@lifl.fr
pridie@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (David Pridie)
"Prince/TPK" <FM01%POLYTEC1.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
prk1159@ecx.tuwien.ac.at (W.AUZINGER(Praktikum bis 93-03-01))
procyon@diku.dk
pungin@cs.uri.edu (Raphael Pungin)
pwhb@ukc.ac.uk
qle@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Father Time)
R Andrew Hayden <rahayden@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu>
randy@msc.cornell.edu
rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
rei2!fox@uunet.UU.NET (David DeSimone)
remcoha@solist.htsa.aha.nl
RH Schone <holly@kauri.vuw.ac.nz>
Robert Ruthven <robert@hektar.welly.gen.nz>
Roberto@sunsci.cern.ch
roberts@brahms.amd.com (Dave Roberts)
rocker!doug@uunet.UU.NET (Doug Luecke)
rohan@coombs.anu.edu.au (Rohan Talip)
roland@paul.choate.edu (David A. Braun)
Roman Bartke <roman@vax.rz.uni-wuerzburg.dbp.de>
rscha@ctp.com (Richard Schaaf)
rstolle@eis.calstate.edu (Randy W. Stoller)
rtdavis@ucdavis.edu
RUAUD stephane <Stephane.Ruaud@ufrima.imag.fr>
runehh@dhhalden.no (RUNE HALFDAN HOLST HUSEBY)
rune-w@johanna4.hsr.no
Ryan Bayne <ryan.bayne@canrem.com>
S14249NM@umassd.edu
s238@cs.utexas.edu (Jeffrey Bob Berthiaume)
SAMSEGGER@kapsch.co.at (Wolfgang.Samsegger@kapsch.co.at +43 1 81111-2316)
scarnie%pieman@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au (Stuart George Carnie)
seip@scf.usc.edu (Street Rat)
Shula Ben-Asher <s1632739@techst02.technion.ac.il>
silk@grimaldi.rutgers.edu (Silk Merchant)
SIT  ANDREW <sita@ecf.toronto.edu>
SL859@CC.USU.EDU (wReam)
Smith R J <smirj@essex.ac.uk>
sn@phoenix.oulu.fi (Sami Nieminen)
Spooky Electric <ad_bibby@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk>
spse@ukc.ac.uk
Stefan Sundstr|m <d2sunst@dtek.chalmers.se>
Steve_Demuth@aldhfn.akron.oh.us (Steve Demuth)
Steven T Chiang <stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu>
stevet@cblpn.att.com
Stig Arne Olsen <stigo@ifi.uio.no>
stimson@leland.stanford.edu (Stephen Frederick Timson)
Svante Str|mvall <d2svante@dtek.chalmers.se>
Swa.Frantzen@cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Swa Frantzen)
swh@hhska.ka.sub.org (Siegfried Hirsch)
taip@netcom.com (Taero Patterson)
Talkie Toaster <ma92hdm@brunel.ac.uk>
Tall Cool One  <rky57514@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Terry Marshall <Terry.Marshall@uk.cray.com>
tfinn@crash.cts.com (Aaron Grier)
"There can be only one." <CT64%POLYTEC1.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
"Thomas D Gasser-1" <thomasg@staff.tc.umn.edu> (Thomas D.Gasser)
"Tim Triemstra" <empath@ais.org>
Tod B Bussert <tbbusser@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Tomi Holger Engdahl <then@Niksula.hut.fi>
Tony Dragozet <tony.dragozet@canrem.com>
Tony Wilson <wilson@stc.nato.int>
Torben Thellefsen Nielsen <monty@iesd.auc.dk>
tord faeroy <tord.faeroy@kih.no>
torsten.koeppe@fernuni-hagen.de (Torsten Koeppe)
troy@graphon.com (Troy Morrison)
trux%car@ph.gmr.com (Chris Rende)
"TTT"  <D91-IVT@trisse.hj.se>
u7b52@sunws78.bgm.link.com (Todd Elwardt)
u920533@daimi.aau.dk
umhaugh0@ccu.UManitoba.CA
unbelver@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Carlos Y. Villalpando)
v912236@brabander.si.hhs.nl
VAZQUEZ GALLARDO <siavagaj@sisa00.si.ehu.es>
viamar!kmembry@rutgers.edu (Kirk Membry)
waardenb@cs.utwente.nl (Jerry van Waardenberg)
WILSONEB@CNSVAX.UWEC.EDU
wity@iastate.edu
Xander Wemmers <xawemmer@cs.ruu.nl>
zstewart@nyx.cs.du.edu (Zhahai Stewart)

Voted against creation of the group:

10779957@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (ADRIAN KOK)
al@stanley.cis.brown.edu (Andre Lehovich)
amberle@staff.tc.umn.edu
andrean@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andre Arianto Nurwono)
andy@vistachrome.com (Andrew Finkenstadt)
brian@audiofax.com (Brian TroxeLL)
bson@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jan Brittenson)
burke@seachg.com (Michael Burke)
Burt N Holzman <burt+@cmu.edu>
carr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Dave Carr)
chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal)
claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss)
David E. Goggin <dt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu>
Doug <wedman@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
dtutelman@attmail.att.com
eab@msc.edu (Edward Bertsch)
eh@tune.cs.columbia.edu (Erik Hilsdale)
emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
"Eric J. Olson" <ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu>
Ernest A. Cline <cline@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu>
EWILTS@MARS.GOV.BC.CA (Ed Wilts)
franklig@GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU (Gregory C Franklin )
Fred Bent <fwbent@plg.uwaterloo.ca>
FSSPR@acad3.alaska.edu
ggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US (Gregory G. Woodbury)
hagar@tpki.toppoint.de (Oliver Fink)
hollasch@kpc.com (Steve Hollasch)
homebru!smith!dick@cs.uchicago.edu
IBM AS/400 Partnership at Mankato State University <CSAS400@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU>
jduncan@prism.nmt.edu (John Duncan)
jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Jesus Eugenio S nchez Pe~a <al198723@academ01.mty.itesm.mx>
jhopkins@cbacc.cba.uga.edu (John Hopkins)
jmaynard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jay Maynard)
john@iastate.edu
Joshua Randall <randall-joshua@YALE.EDU>
Ken Fishkin <fishkin@parc.xerox.com>
Kenneth Herron <kherron@ms.uky.edu>
kevinlu@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Kevin Lu)
lundberg@blaze.cs.jhu.edu
Marc Moorcroft <smarry@zooid.guild.org>
maus@olias.linet.org
mcp@lester.appstate.edu (Craig Presnell)
mhpower@Athena.MIT.EDU
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu
neilb@borris.eece.unm.edu
owens@cookiemonster.cc.buffalo.edu (Bill Owens)
Parik Rao <uprao@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu>
Patrick Tufts <zippy@berry.cs.brandeis.edu>
pkedrosk@student.business.uwo.ca (Paul S. Kedrosky)
rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Roland Kaltefleiter <kaltef@theo-physik.uni-kiel.dbp.de>
sheldon@iastate.edu
srogers@tad.eds.com (Steve Rogers)
Stephen Lau <lau@ai.sri.com>
stu@valinor.mythical.com (Stu Labovitz)
"Sven M. Heinicke" <sven@cs.widener.edu>
Thomas Wang <wang@hpdmsjlm.cup.hp.com>
Tom Swingle <tswingle@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>
trier@slc6.INS.CWRU.Edu (Stephen C. Trier)
warninm@instruction.CS.ORST.EDU (Michael Warning)
zorak@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott E Flowers)
-- 
Union:  A group which takes the average working Joe, busting his hump 50 weeks
of the year in a factory, and gives him the power to spend one of those weeks
carrying a picket sign around in the rain outside that factory.

 
USENET FACT: Big-8
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