From [email protected] Wed Aug 14 13:49:06 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Bob Atkins 
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,,,,,
Subject: RFD: reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 14 Aug 1996 17:48:52 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 232
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:9054 news.groups:225822

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
                  moderated group
unmoderated group (renames
           unmoderated group

Newsgroups line:	Photo announcements, FAQs, lists. (Moderated)	Private ads - No dealers or discussions.	Questions and comments - No ads.

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroups
and, and the
world-wide moderated Usenet newsgroup (moderated).
This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Procedural details are below.



The marketplace group, intended only for personal ads, has become
disrupted by many discussion threads on general marketplace issues,
such as where to buy equipment, how to price equipment, how to
do transactions safely etc. Clearly there is a need for a group in
which these discussions can take place without disrupting the
original marketplace group. The volume of off-charter traffic
in the current marketplace groups clearly shows user demand
for a discussion group. It is therefore proposed that the
current group be split into two news groups, one to carry all the
advertising posts (private, not commercial ads) and the other to
carry the discussions about general marketplace issues. It is
proposed that the current be renamed to ads, and that a new named be created


With so many groups (14+, depending on the outcome of
this RFD) there is no obvious place to post general announcements,
like lists of mailing lists, lists of FAQS, or even general FAQs
themselves. A group would provide a single
group to which readers could look for pointers to information, or
the information itself. Clearly such a group would be open to abuse
(SPAM, advertising, off topic posts and the like) and the intended
information distribution could be swamped by other postings
if the group is not moderated. Therefore
the group is proposed as a moderated newsgroup, along the
lines of news.announce.newusers for example. Certain "key"
posts (such as the group charters and posting guidelines) could
be posted on a regular basis without being lost in a sea of other
postings. "Regular" in this context would mean no more frequently
than once per week and no less frequently than once per month.
Should anyone wish to take on the task of, for example, compiling
a list of personal web page URLs of posters, such a list
could be posted to the group on a regular basis. Also, should
someone wish to compile a list of URLs or email addresses of
commercial photo businesses, again such a list could be posted
to this group. Regular posting of a list of such information would
ensure that everyone has a chance to see it and the information
will always be available since it will be reposted before it expires
on most systems (again, see news.announce.newusers for an example
of the way in which this group is intended to function).


ALL discussions of marketplace issues should be posted to this group, and
*NOT* to Such discussions may include,
but are not limited to, requests for help in pricing equipment, requests
for "honesty" references, posting of on-line transaction experiences
and requests for advice on how best to conduct "on-line" transactions.
Encoded or raw binary postings are not permitted in this group.
Commercial advertising of any kind is prohibited in this group.
All private forsale/wanted ads must be posted to,
and not to this group.
All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).



ALL forsale and wanted ads must be posted to this group and only to this
group.  These posting will be restricted to the private sale of personally
owned and used equipment. This newsgroup specifically
does *not* permit commercial advertising, postings by dealers selling
or soliciting equipment, or postings by amateurs regularly dealing in
used equipment principally or incidentally for purposes of financial
gain. It is intended as a forum in which photographers can buy, sell and
trade equipment in connection with their *individual* photographic
interests. Postings which receive no replies should *NOT* be reposted
for at least one week after the initial posting and should not be
repeatedly reposted without material change. Replies (other than
factual corrections) should be sent *only* by email and *never* posted
in Advertisers should include a
telephone number if possible in case there are problems with email
connections (and email problems are not unusual!). Encoded or raw
binary postings are not permitted in this group. Commercial
advertising of any kind is prohibited in this group. It is strongly
suggested that users choose appropriate subject lines to permit
easy searches. For example, large-format posts should contain the
keywords "large format" or "LF". Medium format posts should have
subject lines containing the keywords "medium format" or "MF". Other
appropriate keywords might be "35mm", "Canon EOS", "tripod" etc.
Uninformative subject lines such as "Stuff for sale" should be
avoided. All discussions of marketplace issues should be posted to, and not to this group.
All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).



This group is a moderated group. Postings must be of the nature of a
general announcement, FAQ or list of resources of interest to the groups. Commercial announcements will not be permitted.
Discussions will not be permitted in this group (discussions *about*
the group should take place in

This group will not carry individual postings of URLs and email
contact addresses for photo resource companies, however the group
will carry lists of such information provided that someone
creates, updates, maintains and submits such lists to the newsgroup.
The moderator may take on this function, but is not required to do so
by this charter.

The group moderator(s) will attempt process postings in a timely
manner, but the group is intended a a source of "timeless" information
and so postings will normally be made on receipt of submissions,
but rather on a daily or weekly basis, as dictated by traffic volume
and the urgency of the material.

Postings requiring urgent attention should be clearly
marked as such and the moderator will attempt to forward them to the
group as rapidly as possible if they are appropriate for the group.

Postings to should not normally be widely crossposted
to other groups. The moderator(s) has the option to
reject widely crossposted postings submitted to the group, but is not
required to do so. Postings crossposted to *all* other groups
will not be accepted unless they are official postings such as
group RFDs or CFVs . Postings appearing in multiple other
groups (i.e. not crossposted, but posted individually to each group)
will *not* be accepted.

The moderator(s) may require that postings be formatted in a given
manner in order to facilitate the moderation process or in the
automated development of lists. If this is done, the required
formatting information will be posted in the group on a regular basis.

The moderator may require that some postings (e.g. the URLs of
personal web pages) be submitted to a list organizer (an email
address will be given) rather than directly to the group. The list
organizer will collect such submissions, develop the list and
submit it to the group at regular intervals.

All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

In the event that there is a group opinion that the group moderator(s)
should be replaced, this will be decided by a group vote. In any such
vote, a minimum of 100 votes will be required and the result of the vote
will be determined by a simple majority. In the event of a tie, a vote
to remove a moderator will be taken as passed (i.e. the moderator will
be removed by a 50/50 vote).

Replacement or additional moderators must be approved by a group vote
of a minimum of 100 total votes and the vote will be determined by
a simple majority. In the event of a tie, the proposal will
fail (i.e. a moderator will not be elected by a 50/50 vote)

The group moderator(s) may appoint temporary replacements for a period of
no longer than 2 months to cover absence by illness, vacation or other
short term events which prevent the moderator(s) from attending to the
task of group moderation.

Election and removal of moderators may take place at any time. Voting
will be conducted by a neutral 3rd party when ever possible, such as
the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers.



Moderator: Bob Atkins 
Moderator: Pete Bergstrom 

Bob Atkins wrote the previous RFDs (and this one), and is
a regular contibutor to the groups.

Pete Bergstrom is the current moderator of and
knows the ins and outs of group moderation.



This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.


This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:


Proponent: Bob Atkins 
Bob Atkins  or