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Legal ( misc.legal )

From [email protected] Wed Mar 11 23:00:20 1998 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Marvin Vaun Frandsen <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.legal,alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue,alt.child-support,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce,us.legal Subject: RFD: misc.legal.self-represent Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: misc.legal.self-represent Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 06:53:19 GMT Lines: 90 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:9856 news.groups:274021 misc.legal:225034 alt.child-support:131551 alt.dads-rights.unmoderated:1746 alt.support.divorce:2279                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)              unmoderated group misc.legal.self-represent  This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsroup misc.legal.self-represent. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below.  Newsgroups line: misc.legal.self-represent	Representing oneself in legal affairs.  RATIONALE: misc.legal.self-represent  With the advances in the information age, more information is available now to persons representing themselves in legal proceedings in and out of court than ever before.  As a result publishing for "Pro Se" ("For Self") litigants is an expanding field and more and more persons are electing to rely on themselves to carry out a wide variety of legal proceedings.  While several newsgroups serve as fora for general legal discussion, no newsgroup serves as a focused forum for persons representing themselves in court to exchange information on the details, mechanics and legal theories necessary to conduct their cases successfully.  Such discussions, when they occur, are usually easy to lose and hard to find as they are inconsistently cross-posed inside of a wide variety of very busy newsgroups that generally serve other topics.  The presence of many Pro Se topics within these newsgroups indicates that a community of readers and posters exists which are concerned with Pro Se issues and which would be well served by a dedicated newsgroup.  CHARTER: misc.legal.self-represent  This unmoderated newsgroup would be a focused forum for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share.  Contributions from attorneys, whether exhortations to get a lawyer or philosophical, or practical comments, would be welcome.  This focused forum would provide a place for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share their viewpoints, tips, horror stories, heaven stories, favorite books, references to court rules and case law, recommendations for attorneys, advice on conduct in court, complaints about judges, complaints about attorneys, complaints about people who represent themselves, praises for any of the above, recommended Internet law sites, recommended approaches to researching case law, recommendations for legal lists to subscribe to, and otherwise provide a place for people to engage in the discussion of a wide spectrum of topics about the perils, joys, defeats, triumphs, and how-to of representing yourself in court and in other legal proceedings.  All comments are on a "Caveat Emptor" basis, and would not constitute legal advice.  Advertisements for legal services would be on-topic.  END CHARTER.  PROCEDURE:  This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newsgroups), after which a Call for Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.  All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.  This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal."  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process.  DISTRIBUTION:  misc.legal, misc.legal.moderated, alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue, alt.child-support, alt.dads-rights.unmoderated, alt.mens-rights, alt.support.divorce, us.legal  Proponent: Marvin Vaun Frandsen <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Sun Apr 26 21:45:14 1998 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.child-support,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue,law.court.federal,misc.legal,us.legal,misc.legal.moderated Subject: CFV: misc.legal.self-represent Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 19 May 1998 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: misc.legal.self-represent Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:42:21 GMT Lines: 137 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:9983 news.groups:279903 alt.child-support:136461 alt.dads-rights.unmoderated:4095 misc.legal:229292 misc.legal.moderated:25311                       FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)              unmoderated group misc.legal.self-represent  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups line: misc.legal.self-represent	Self-representation in legal proceedings.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 18 May 1998.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Marvin Vaun Frandsen <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: misc.legal.self-represent  While several newsgroups serve as fora for general legal discussion, no newsgroup serves as a focused forum for persons representing themselves in court to exchange information on the details, mechanics and legal theories necessary to conduct their cases successfully.  Such discussions, when they occur, are usually easy to lose and hard to find as they are inconsistently cross-posed inside of a wide variety of very busy newsgroups that generally serve other topics. The presence of many Pro Se topics within these newsgroups indicates that a community of readers and posters exists which are concerned with Pro Se issues and which would be well served by a dedicated newsgroup.  CHARTER: misc.legal.self-represent  This unmoderated newsgroup would be a focused forum for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share.  Contributions from attorneys, whether exhortations to get a lawyer or philosophical, or practical comments, would be welcome.  This focused forum would provide a place for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share their viewpoints, tips, horror stories, heaven stories, favorite books, references to court rules and case law, recommendations for attorneys, advice on conduct in court, complaints about judges, complaints about attorneys, complaints about people who represent themselves, praises for any of the above, recommended Internet law sites, recommended approaches to researching case law, recommendations for legal lists to subscribe to, and otherwise provide a place for people to engage in the discussion of a wide spectrum of topics about the perils, joys, defeats, triumphs, and how-to of representing yourself in court and in other legal proceedings.  All comments are on a "Caveat Emptor" basis, and would not constitute legal advice.  Advertisements for legal services would be on-topic.  END CHARTER.  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One vote per person, one account per voter.  Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes.  Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post.  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, ask the votetaker.  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: misc.legal.self-represent | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  misc.legal.self-represent ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============   This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Aug 14 1997). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Wed Apr 29 18:11:37 1998 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.child-support,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue,law.court.federal,misc.legal,us.legal,misc.legal.moderated Subject: CFV: misc.legal.self-represent Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 19 May 1998 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: misc.legal.self-represent Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1998 00:30:00 GMT Lines: 137 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10005 news.groups:280508 alt.child-support:136781 alt.dads-rights.unmoderated:4273 misc.legal:229561 misc.legal.moderated:25344                       FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)              unmoderated group misc.legal.self-represent  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups line: misc.legal.self-represent	Self-representation in legal proceedings.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 18 May 1998.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Marvin Vaun Frandsen <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: misc.legal.self-represent  While several newsgroups serve as fora for general legal discussion, no newsgroup serves as a focused forum for persons representing themselves in court to exchange information on the details, mechanics and legal theories necessary to conduct their cases successfully.  Such discussions, when they occur, are usually easy to lose and hard to find as they are inconsistently cross-posed inside of a wide variety of very busy newsgroups that generally serve other topics. The presence of many Pro Se topics within these newsgroups indicates that a community of readers and posters exists which are concerned with Pro Se issues and which would be well served by a dedicated newsgroup.  CHARTER: misc.legal.self-represent  This unmoderated newsgroup would be a focused forum for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share.  Contributions from attorneys, whether exhortations to get a lawyer or philosophical, or practical comments, would be welcome.  This focused forum would provide a place for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share their viewpoints, tips, horror stories, heaven stories, favorite books, references to court rules and case law, recommendations for attorneys, advice on conduct in court, complaints about judges, complaints about attorneys, complaints about people who represent themselves, praises for any of the above, recommended Internet law sites, recommended approaches to researching case law, recommendations for legal lists to subscribe to, and otherwise provide a place for people to engage in the discussion of a wide spectrum of topics about the perils, joys, defeats, triumphs, and how-to of representing yourself in court and in other legal proceedings.  All comments are on a "Caveat Emptor" basis, and would not constitute legal advice.  Advertisements for legal services would be on-topic.  END CHARTER.  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One vote per person, one account per voter.  Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes.  Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post.  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, ask the votetaker.  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: misc.legal.self-represent | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  misc.legal.self-represent ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============   This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Aug 14 1997). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Thu May  7 16:30:12 1998 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.child-support,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue,law.court.federal,misc.legal,misc.legal.moderated,us.legal Subject: 2nd CFV: misc.legal.self-represent Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Supersedes: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 19 May 1998 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: misc.legal.self-represent Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 23:25:40 GMT Lines: 144 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10055 news.groups:282035 alt.child-support:137621 alt.dads-rights.unmoderated:4692 misc.legal:230340 misc.legal.moderated:25449                        LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)              unmoderated group misc.legal.self-represent  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups line: misc.legal.self-represent	Self-representation in legal proceedings.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 18 May 1998.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Marvin Vaun Frandsen <[email protected]ring.com> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: misc.legal.self-represent  While several newsgroups serve as fora for general legal discussion, no newsgroup serves as a focused forum for persons representing themselves in court to exchange information on the details, mechanics and legal theories necessary to conduct their cases successfully.  Such discussions, when they occur, are usually easy to lose and hard to find as they are inconsistently cross-posed inside of a wide variety of very busy newsgroups that generally serve other topics. The presence of many Pro Se topics within these newsgroups indicates that a community of readers and posters exists which are concerned with Pro Se issues and which would be well served by a dedicated newsgroup.  CHARTER: misc.legal.self-represent  This unmoderated newsgroup would be a focused forum for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share.  Contributions from attorneys, whether exhortations to get a lawyer or philosophical, or practical comments, would be welcome.  This focused forum would provide a place for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share their viewpoints, tips, horror stories, heaven stories, favorite books, references to court rules and case law, recommendations for attorneys, advice on conduct in court, complaints about judges, complaints about attorneys, complaints about people who represent themselves, praises for any of the above, recommended Internet law sites, recommended approaches to researching case law, recommendations for legal lists to subscribe to, and otherwise provide a place for people to engage in the discussion of a wide spectrum of topics about the perils, joys, defeats, triumphs, and how-to of representing yourself in court and in other legal proceedings.  All comments are on a "Caveat Emptor" basis, and would not constitute legal advice.  Advertisements for legal services would be on-topic.  END CHARTER.  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One vote per person, one account per voter.  Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes.  Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post.  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, ask the votetaker.  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: misc.legal.self-represent | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  misc.legal.self-represent  ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============   misc.legal.self-represent Bounce List - Please contact me about your vote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [email protected]                                   Benjamin Combee [email protected]                                                              Willem [email protected]                                                     Themis  This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Aug 14 1997). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Mon May 18 20:30:36 1998 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.child-support,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue,law.court.federal,misc.legal,misc.legal.moderated,us.legal Subject: RESULT: misc.legal.self-represent fails 64:34 Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Supersedes: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: misc.legal.self-represent Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 03:18:47 GMT Lines: 200 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10091 news.groups:283745 alt.child-support:139123 alt.dads-rights.unmoderated:5365 misc.legal:231633 misc.legal.moderated:25678                                  RESULT        unmoderated group misc.legal.self-represent fails 64:34  There were 64 YES votes and 34 NO votes, for a total of 98 valid votes.  There were 3 abstentions and 5 invalid ballots.  For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes.  There must also be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.  A five day discussion period follows this announcement.  Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the group may not be voted on again for six months.  Newsgroups line: misc.legal.self-represent	Self-representation in legal proceedings.  The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 18 May 1998.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Marvin Vaun Frandsen <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: misc.legal.self-represent  While several newsgroups serve as fora for general legal discussion, no newsgroup serves as a focused forum for persons representing themselves in court to exchange information on the details, mechanics and legal theories necessary to conduct their cases successfully.  Such discussions, when they occur, are usually easy to lose and hard to find as they are inconsistently cross-posed inside of a wide variety of very busy newsgroups that generally serve other topics. The presence of many Pro Se topics within these newsgroups indicates that a community of readers and posters exists which are concerned with Pro Se issues and which would be well served by a dedicated newsgroup.  CHARTER: misc.legal.self-represent  This unmoderated newsgroup would be a focused forum for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share.  Contributions from attorneys, whether exhortations to get a lawyer or philosophical, or practical comments, would be welcome.  This focused forum would provide a place for folks with legal problems and legal experience and information to share their viewpoints, tips, horror stories, heaven stories, favorite books, references to court rules and case law, recommendations for attorneys, advice on conduct in court, complaints about judges, complaints about attorneys, complaints about people who represent themselves, praises for any of the above, recommended Internet law sites, recommended approaches to researching case law, recommendations for legal lists to subscribe to, and otherwise provide a place for people to engage in the discussion of a wide spectrum of topics about the perils, joys, defeats, triumphs, and how-to of representing yourself in court and in other legal proceedings.  All comments are on a "Caveat Emptor" basis, and would not constitute legal advice.  Advertisements for legal services would be on-topic.  END CHARTER.    misc.legal.self-represent Final Voter list  Voted YES ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ blang56 [at] aol.com                                 William Walston (blang56) GBrown1271 [at] aol.com                                             Greg Brown JESHRADER [at] aol.com                                           James Shrader SHedr24734 [at] aol.com                                          Scott Hedrick ZachNorth [at] aol.com                                              Zach North cdt [at] audiophile.com                                         Chris Trumbore jaed [at] best.com                                         Jeanne A. E. DeVoto jdg [at] but-i-dont-like-spam.boxmail.com                      John David Galt booda [at] datasync.com                                        Martin H. Booda lcs [at] zk3.dec.com                                               Larry Smith guymacon [at] deltanet.com                   [email protected] (Guy Macon) gkerley [at] execpc.com                                          Gillam Kerley biow [at] ezmort.com                                          Christopher Biow skquinn [at] gcwp.com                                           Shawn K. Quinn curtis_whalen+usenet [at] geocities.com                 Curtis [Jewell] Whalen bjv [at] herbison.com                                            B.J. Herbison dougob [at] javanet.com                                           Doug O'Brien rem [at] jetlag.com                                           Ross E. Mitchell chris [at] kzim.com                                Christopher Robin Zimmerman frandsen [at] mindspring.com                              Marvin Vaun Frandsen aahz [at] netcom.com                                               Aahz Maruch rlcarr [at] animato.pn.com                                       Rich Carreiro ksebek [at] pobox.com                                      Karel William Sebek mra [at] pobox.com                                                 Mark Atwood jdmckim [at] primenet.com                                           J.D. McKim eshunter [at] sprynet.com                                     Elizabeth Hunter stamper [at] stamper.com                                         Chris Stamper sam [at] surgimedics.com                                Sam Hayes Merritt, III pan [at] syix.com                                                          Pan arielle [at] taronga.com                                    Stephanie da Silva tony [at] tuguys.com                                                Tony Boone ssantoro [at] voicetek.com                                     Stefano Santoro cburian [at] ll.mit.edu                                     Christopher Burian tarka [at] earth.oscs.montana.edu                                   Mark Tarka rufinus [at] mbe.ece.wisc.edu                                        J Rufinus etberry [at] worldnet.att.net                                       Eric Berry gryphons [at] worldnet.att.net                             Charles H. Clements garnet [at] aufait.net                                           Garnet Harris macent [at] centuryinter.net                               Cynthia Charleville raynews [at] community.net                                      Raymond Streib biojim [at] concentric.net                                          Jimmy Bray fpilot [at] directcon.net                                   Frederick L. Pilot nickw [at] door.net                                              Nick Williams msoysal [at] mistik.express.net                            Mustafa Soysal MS57 ellis [at] ftel.net                                                 Rick Ellis baird [at] gate.net                                             Baird Stafford paratrooper [at] gulfaccess.net                                    Mike Straub dio4g [at] iitek.net                                                 Dan Holly tc [at] Mcs.Net                                                    Thomas Cuny grady [at] mdc.net                                                  Dick Grady rsteers [at] ns.net                                                 Ron Steers wakelyn [at] pinn.net                                             N.T. Wakelyn mandyw [at] ptd.net                                            Amanda Williams mkc [at] sky.net                                                  Mike Coleman randyg [at] slip.net                                             Randy Gardner curryco [at] softcom.net                                    Virginia A. Lathan luriep [at] tiac.net                                                pete lurie hfung [at] lerami.lerctr.org                                         Hank Fung djb [at] scream.org                                               Dan Birchall eddie [at] opcab.demon.co.uk                                      Eddie Madden Alessio [at] valdena.demon.co.uk                              Alessio Tiramani philh [at] vision25.demon.co.uk                                    Philip Hunt nir [at] easynet.co.uk                                            Nir Leuchter erigbadj [at] postmaster.co.uk                                     Eric Badger  Voted NO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ jasmine [at] fl.net.au                                          Jasmine Taylor chriseb [at] nortel.ca                                          Chris Ebenezer yan [at] storm.ca                                            Yves Bellefeuille calabres [at] chass.utoronto.ca                                    T.Calabrese valeriepg [at] aol.com                                          Valerie Romano jrm [at] best.com                                        John R. MacWilliamson stainles [at] bga.com                                             Dwight Brown eridani [at] databasix.com                                             Belinda Tauger.Paul [at] dorseylaw.com                                     Paul Tauger dan [at] evans-legal.com                                       Daniel B. Evans garlic [at] garlic.com                                                Roy Enge jenoff [at] interlog.com                                          Allan Jenoff cipher [at] mindspring.com                                              Cipher olav [at] viking.mv.com                                        Olav Nieuwejaar eck [at] panix.com                                             Mark Eckenwiler steiners [at] primenet.com                                       Jason Steiner kpascoe [at] sprintmail.com                                       Kathy Pascoe David.Robinson [at] Eng.Sun.COM                                 David Robinson crenaud [at] wwa.com                                              Chuck Renaud naddy [at] mips.rhein-neckar.de                           Christian Weisgerber k95dl01 [at] cc.kzoo.edu                                            Dan Lawson y-pisan [at] nwu.edu                                               Yusuf Pisan jkramer1 [at] swarthmore.edu                                     Joshua Kramer rick [at] bcm.tmc.edu                                           Richard Miller gbacon [at] pluto.cs.uah.edu                                        Greg Bacon bstock [at] ucla.edu                                                 Bob Stock cstone [at] math.unm.edu                                           Chris Stone edwardp [at] ameritech.net                                   Edward P. Dittmer wrg [at] arkansas.net                                             W.R. Giacona pbern7 [at] earthlink.net                                       Paul Bernhardt brcpa [at] gte.net                                                 Barry Rubin marquez [at] pacbell.net                                         Aaron Marquez simon [at] darkmere.gen.nz                                         Simon Lyall david [at] home.net.nz                                            David Farrar  Abstained ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ BruceWMcC [at] aol.com                                     Bruce W. McCullough pgowder [at] law.harvard.edu                                       Paul Gowder andrew [at] erlenstar.demon.co.uk                                Andrew Gierth  Invalid votes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ streetjust [at] aol.com                                             Streetjust     ! No vote statement in message postmaster [at] ATE-Solutions.com                                   JIM COOPER     ! Ineligible address jblake [at] eskimo.com                                          Jonathon Blake     ! Ineligible address Themis [at] email.msn.com                                               Themis     ! Undeliverable address fghg [at] str.ki                                                        Willem     ! Undeliverable address   --  Neil Crellin, UVV <[email protected]>