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# Fat acceptance ( soc.support.fat-acceptance )

From [email protected] Sun Jun  7 20:16:57 1998 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Jean L. Cooper <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.support.big-folks,soc.support.fat-acceptance Subject: RFD: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 03:11:55 GMT Lines: 181 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:10173 news.groups:286988 soc.support.fat-acceptance:34447                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)          moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a world-wide moderated Usenet newsgroup soc.support.fat- acceptance.moderated.  This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural details are below.  Newsgroup line: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)  RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups, alt.support.big-folks and soc.support.fat-acceptance, that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement and other issues in the lives of those of us who are considered larger than average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.  CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics relevant to being fat. As a support group, abuse of individuals and groups based on their appearance will not be tolerated. This group is not an appropriate place for discussions of any methods intended to change one's size (diets, weight loss surgery, etc.).  Moderation policy:  soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated will be moderated to block the following specific types of posts:       - Promotion or advocacy of weight loss or weight gain methods. These may be discussed in alt.support.diet.      - Personal ads. These may be posted to alt.personals.big-folks or alt.personals.fat.      - Advertisements for diet/weight loss products or schemes, or general advertisements (for exceptions see definitions below).      - Posts advocating Make Money Fast schemes or distributing chain letters.      - Encoded binary files. Pointers to binary files will be allowed, providing the message is not off-topic for other reasons listed in this charter.      - Messages crossposted to soc.support.fat- acceptance.moderated and more than two other newsgroups (a total of more than three posts in all).      - Abusive posts and posts attacking others in particular or in general in regards to their weight or appearance.  Definitions:  Abuse: Abuse is insulting people based on their size, based on prejudicial notions related to size, or based on prejudicial language regarding their size.  Advertisements:  Advertisements for products of special interest to large people (excluding diets/weight loss products or schemes) will be accepted, provided the subject line begins with the word: "AD:" and provided that a given company posts no more than once every three months.  SIG files that are no more than 3 lines long, and which are appended to an on-topic message over 3 lines long shall not be considered ads by this definition.  Diet/Weight Loss: Inappropriate diet or weight loss talk centers around the personal imperative to change one's body size to meet the impersonal, pervasive judgments of society.  Therefore, discussion of nutritional plans or surgical procedures with the sole goal of weight gain or loss, including advertisements for same, is off-topic for this newsgroup.  Discussion of nutritional plans or surgical procedures which address a bona fide medical problem are considered on-topic.  Information: Posts requesting information on how to lose or gain weight are considered off-topic - this includes both nutritional plans and surgical procedures.  Discussion of the health hazards of nutritional plans and surgical procedures are on-topic.  Posts discussing medical or other research on obesity, whether pro or con, are always on-topic.  However, readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to, the following:       - Fat-acceptance political activism      - Events relating to fat-acceptance      - Medical research and related research papers      - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including nutrition and exercise for large people)      - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order catalogs, etc.)      - Personal anecdotes about being fat      - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  Moderator: Kristofer Jon Magnusson <[email protected]> Moderator: Theresa Dyer <[email protected]>  Submission address: [email protected] Administrative address: [email protected]  This newsgroup is to be moderated in order to provide a troll-free, non-commercial, supportive environment.  Moderation will be done using robo-moderation software, set up to filter posts according to the moderation policy stated above.  The moderation software, STUMP, is running on a Unix server connected directly to the Internet on a T1. The moderation process is based on the document at the URL: http://www.planetary.net/ssfa/moderation_process.html.  The newsgroup will attempt to have a minimum of 3 moderators appointed at any given time, though occasionally fewer (even one) will be permitted.  Outbound moderators will work with the remaining moderator(s) and make reasonable attempts to find replacements for themselves that are acceptable to those moderator(s) remaining. Preferably these will come from the readership of the newsgroup.  In accordance with the NetNews Moderator's Handbook (http://www.landfield.com/usenet/moderators/handbook/), it is in the best interests of both moderation team and newsgroup for outgoing moderators to choose replacement moderators, and not for the newsgroup to choose (or approve) with a vote.  Disagreements among the moderators as to the appropriateness of a specific posting will be decided by a simple majority vote of the moderators, i.e., with 3 moderators, a vote of 2 in favor or opposed on a specific question will prevail. In the case of a split vote between two moderators, posts will be approved.  Kris Magnusson is a software engineer for Novell, Inc., who has participated in soc.support.fat-acceptance for five years. He is currently the moderator of FoxxVox <[email protected]> and participates on several other mailing lists. He is currently writing a book for O'Reilly & Associates on Java network programming and has seven years experience managing Unix hosts and Internet services.  He will act as the lead moderator, provide a stable connection for moderation and set up the technical details.  Theresa Dyer has a B.S.L.A. degree from the School of Languages and Linguistics at Georgetown University.  She has five months of online experience.  She has worked as an editor and as a paralegal, and is currently a claims adjuster for Acadia Insurance in Westbrook, Maine. As an insurance adjuster, she has received special training in various forms of dispute resolution and fair decision making.  END MODERATOR INFO.  PROCEDURE:  This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.  All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.  This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process.  DISTRIBUTION:  This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:  news.announce.newgroups,news.groups, alt.support.big-folks, soc.support.fat-acceptance, alt.support.obesity  Proponent: Jean L. Cooper <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Thu May 20 00:59:45 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.support.big-folks Subject: RFD: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:58:32 GMT Lines: 435 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11034 news.groups:314234 soc.support.fat-acceptance:65378                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)          moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a Worldwide moderated Usenet newsgroup soc.support.fat- acceptance.moderated.  This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural details are below.  Newsgroup line: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)  RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  There are currently three unmoderated newsgroups, alt.support.big-folks, alt.support.fat-acceptance, and soc.support.fat-acceptance, that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.  CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics relevant to being fat. As a support group, abuse of individuals and groups based on their appearance will not be tolerated. All self- defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are building a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The important thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal attacks (see the policy statement for details on this issue).  Moderation policy:  soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated will be moderated to block the following specific types of posts:  1. Trolls 2. Spam 3. Personal Attacks 4. Inappropriate posts 5. Binaries  1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to    provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.  2. Spam is a post that was made, essentially unchanged, to a number    of newsgroups, generally for religious, political, commercial,    or irrational reasons.  3. Personal attacks are defined as posts which personally insult or    attack one or more of the members of the newsgroup (note:    criticisms of ideas, are not personal attacks. For example:    "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack, but "you are an    idiot for proposing that idea" is a personal attack.).  Extremely    factual (that is subject to proof) and derogatory/defamatory    allegations that can't be backed up may be construed as personal    attacks.  4. There are some topics for discussion that are not appropriate to    this forum.  Messages about these topics will not be approved:     (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,        or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,        drugs, exercise, and other methods will not be approved.        (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages        that say "even though [weight control method] is not for        everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this        restriction.         Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for        same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight        control attempts or methods, are allowed.         Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not        advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about        exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about        exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.         If you mention weight changes that happened to you without        your intending to, try to be careful in your wording so it        doesn't sound like you're advocating weight control.     (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those of        interest to fat or fat-accepting people.        If you sell a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as        clothing in large sizes) you may post something about your        business no more than once per month. The preferred way to        do this is to point people to your web site.  Ads will be        checked by a volunteer before being posted in order to        confirm that the products are actually for fat people. The        subject line of such posts will have ADVERT: prepended to them        by the moderators.  If we go to verify your site and it's not        what your ad leads people to believe all future posts will be        rejected.         The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise        fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's        primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.         If the moderators believe that the amount or type of        advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of        the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put        additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This        change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation        mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of        the moderators.         Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept        personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online        Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to        soc.personals.  5. Binaries will be filtered out.  Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to, the following:       - Fat-acceptance political activism      - Events relating to fat-acceptance      - Medical research and related research papers      - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including        nutrition and exercise for large people)      - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order        catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to        requests for such information      - Personal anecdotes about being fat      - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements      - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs  Frequently asked questions (FAQ) ================================  The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks will be used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort.  Amending This Charter =====================  This charter can be amended at any time by following the procedures then in effect for newsgroup creation.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  Moderator: Sharon Curtis <[email protected]> Moderator: Jean C <[email protected]> Moderator: Jessica Hankins <[email protected]> Moderator: Moira Harris <[email protected]> Moderator: Tina Marie <[email protected]> Moderator: Stef Maruch <[email protected]> Moderator: Annette M. Stroud <[email protected]>  END MODERATOR INFO.                  Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for:           soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderation style  What is the purpose of the FAQ?  This FAQ serves to answer questions about how moderation is performed on the soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (ssfam) newsgroup.  ======================================================================  What types of posts will be disallowed on the newsgroup?  1. Trolls 2. Spam 3. Personal Attacks 4. Inappropriate posts 5. Binaries  1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to    provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.  2. Spam is a post that was made, essentially unchanged, to a number    of newsgroups, generally for religious, political, commercial,    or irrational reasons.  3. Personal attacks are defined as posts which personally insult or    attack one or more of the members of the newsgroup (note:    criticisms of ideas, are not personal attacks. For example:    "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack, but "you are an    idiot for proposing that idea" is a personal attack.).  Extremely    factual (that is subject to proof) and derogatory/defamatory    allegations that can't be backed up may be construed as personal    attacks.  4. There are some topics for discussion that are not appropriate to    this forum.  Messages about these topics will not be approved:     (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,        or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,        drugs, exercise, and other methods will not be approved.        (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages        that say "even though [weight control method] is not for        everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this        restriction.         Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for        same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight        control attempts or methods, are allowed.         Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not        advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about        exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about        exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.         If you mention weight changes that happened to you without        your intending to, try to be careful in your wording so it        doesn't sound like you're advocating weight control.     (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those of        interest to fat or fat-accepting people.        If you sell a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as        clothing in large sizes) you may post something about your        business no more than once per month. The preferred way to        do this is to point people to your web site.  Ads will be        checked by a volunteer before being posted in order to        confirm that the products are actually for fat people. The        subject line of such posts will have ADVERT: prepended to them        by the moderators.  If we go to verify your site and it's not        what your ad leads people to believe all future posts will be        rejected.         The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise        fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's        primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.         If the moderators believe that the amount or type of        advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of        the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put        additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This        change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation        mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of        the moderators.         Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept        personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online        Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to        soc.personals.  5. Binaries will be filtered out.  ======================================================================  What will the user see of moderation?  The first time anyone posts on the newsgroup, they will be entered into a list of posters.  Software will notice the new user and will send them a greeting.  In that greeting will be a form to fill out indicating their familiarity with the etiquette of the newsgroup and their agreement to follow those rules.  Once the new poster agrees, the first ten (10) posts they send to the newsgroup will be hand moderated.  After those first ten (10) posts are approved, they will allowed to post without human intervention as long as they follow these rules.  Any poster who violates these rules will be warned three times by the moderators.  If the poster is warned three times in the space of 30 days and the moderators decide that the person is unwilling to follow the rules, that person will be put on a list of people who will be hand moderated.  The record gets reset for each person after 30 days without a warning.  In other words, if a poster gets warned about violating the rules and then doesn't violate the rules for 30 days, the warning goes away and they get a "clean slate".  However, someone who habitually breaks the rules every 31 (or so) days, will be subject to hand moderation at the discretion of the moderators if the person in question has broken the rules 5 or more times in a six month period.  When a person is placed on this list the first time, to get off the list, they will need to send e-mail to the moderators promising to follow the above rules.  They will then be reinstated.  The second time they are put on the list, they may be there for a minimum of one month (30 calendar days).  After the 30 day period has expired they can again ask to be removed from the hand moderation list.  If they have not violated the charter during the last month their request will be granted.  Thereafter having been placed in the hand moderation list each person will be automatically brought to the attention of the moderators on Six-month intervals.  At this point the moderators will then decide on whether to take the person off of the hand moderation list or not.  ======================================================================  What else will be disapproved by the moderators?  Any thread which seems to be in danger of venturing into personal attack or troll territory will be moderated by hand, subject to the other limitations of the moderation process discussed in the next sections.  ======================================================================  What cross-posts will be allowed?  Cross-posts will only be allowed to the other unmoderated fat Acceptance newsgroups.  Any other newsgroups will be removed from the header.  ======================================================================  How will hand moderation be performed?  Any time a moderator chooses to perform this function they will send a message to the moderation site.  They will then be put on a list of 'online moderators'.  These moderators will have posts sent to them in a round robin fashion.  They can specify how many outstanding messages they can have.  The system will send no more than that many messages to them at one time.  Upon receiving the message, the moderator can accept or reject the post.  If the post is rejected, they can select one of several boiler plate replies, or write one of their own.  If the message is not received back at the moderation site within half an hour, the message is resent.  If it is still not received within another half hour, the post will be sent to the next available moderator, and the unavailable moderator will be automatically logged out.  When a moderator logs out, any messages that they have not replied to will be sent to the next available moderator.  ======================================================================  What can I do if a message is rejected, or if I have other questions regarding posts?  There is a mailing list, [email protected], that will reach all the moderators.  If you feel like your message should not have been rejected feel free to contact the moderators as a group.  If any one of the moderators thinks that the message should not have been rejected, it will be posted.  The moderators reserve the right to ignore mail that is clearly abusive. It should be remembered that the moderators are volunteers and that they are attempting to be as fair as possible in this situation - and as such should not be expected to be treated as a "shooting gallery".  ======================================================================  What can be done about problems with the moderation panel?  Grievances should first be taken up with the moderator list mentioned above. If the issue is not resolved to the person's satisfaction they can bring the issue up to the list of people interested in moderation, [email protected], after the moderators are given sufficient time to resolve the issue (at least 3 days, due to mail accessibility and propagation delay issues)  This second list is publicly accessible, and anyone who wants to join can send a message to famod-request or famod-digest-request on the same machine with the word 'subscribe' in the body of the message.  This group acts as an oversight committee.  They have no official power, but are rather a publicly accessible list where people can air their grievances. It is to be understood that bringing a post to this list is accepting the greater propagation of the more public list.  If a majority of the moderators decide that a moderator is indeed abusing his or her power, he or she will be removed from the list of moderators or censured at the discretion of the majority of moderators.  Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>, Nully Fydyan <[email protected]>, and Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> have agreed to monitor all traffic on the moderators' and public mailing lists, and the moderators have agreed to abdicate as a group if Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>, Nully Fydyan <[email protected]>, and/or Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> feel it to be necessary.  In the event of abdication the moderation address will be changed to a new group of moderators if a group acceptable to the current moderators are found.  Otherwise a request to remove the group from Usenet will be generated - due to the requirements of Usenet (this is not a choice that the moderators have an alternative for.)  ======================================================================  Who are the moderators?  The moderators currently active for the newsgroup are (in alphabetical order by last name):  Sharon Curtis <[email protected]> Jean C <[email protected]> Jessica Hankins <[email protected]> Moira Harris <[email protected]> Tina Marie <[email protected]> Stef Maruch <[email protected]> Annette M. Stroud <[email protected]>  You can reach the moderators at: [email protected] Just send your messages to that address.  PROCEDURE:  This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this Phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed Newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.  All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.  This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process.  DISTRIBUTION: soc.support.fat-acceptance alt.support.big-folks alt.support.fat-acceptance.  Proponent: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Mon Jun  7 20:43:51 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.support.big-folks Subject: 2nd RFD: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 03:35:57 GMT Lines: 561 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11046 news.groups:316502 soc.support.fat-acceptance:66809                       REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)          moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  CHANGES from previous RFD:  The newsgroup alt.support.fat-acceptance was removed wherever it appeared because the group does not exist.  Significant changes were made to the moderation policy to reflect discussion in news.groups about not allowing pro-diet discussion.  Significant changes were made to the moderation FAQ to allow for a way to add moderators and clarify issues surrounding hand moderation when someone starts posting.  The three oversight moderators were listed as official moderators.  Small binaries were allowed.  Cross-posting, except for FAQs, was disallowed.  A statement indicating that the moderation policy could be adjusted by the moderators as needed was added.  The statement about modifying the charter according to any procedures then in effect was removed.  Allowing discussion of moderation on the newsgroup was added, with the proviso that moderators may choose to move such discussion if it threatens to take over the newsgroup. A section was added to refer people to other places on Usenet for posting messages that are not allowed on the newsgroup.  Various grammatical and typographical errors were corrected.  This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a Worldwide moderated Usenet newsgroup soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural details are below.  Newsgroup line: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)  RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups, alt.support.big-folks and soc.support.fat-acceptance, that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.  CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics relevant to being fat. This is a support group. Abuse of individuals and groups based on their appearance will not be tolerated. All self- defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are building a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The important thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal attacks (see the policy statement for details on this issue).  Moderation policy:  soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated will be moderated to block the following specific types of posts:  1. Trolls 2. Spam 3. Personal Attacks 4. Inappropriate posts 5. Binaries 6. Cross posts  1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to    provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.  2. Spam is an off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of    commercialism or zealotry.  3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the    newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.    For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,    but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific    allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that    poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as    personal attacks.  4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support    group for people who want a break from the "weight control is    good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western    society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical    information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight    control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of    messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about    these topics will not be approved:     (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,        or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,        drugs, exercise, and other methods will not be approved.        (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages        that say "even though [weight control method] is not for        everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this        restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-        acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed        his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail        about a particular method for weight control that worked for        the poster will be considered advocacy unless the surrounding        fat-acceptance context is clear.         Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for        same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight        control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of        scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the        refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.         Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not        advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about        exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about        exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.     (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those        of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell        a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in        large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more        than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point        people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before        being posted in order to confirm that the products are        actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in        the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators        will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site        does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all        future posts from that vendor may be rejected.         The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise        fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's        primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.         If the moderators believe that the amount or type of        advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of        the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put        additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This        change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation        mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of        the moderators.         Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept        personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online        Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to        soc.personals.  5. Binaries, with the exception small binaries used to authenticate    (e.g. PGP keys), will be filtered out.  6. Cross-posting of FAQs will be allowed, but any other cross-posted    messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all    other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  Spam that    is cross-posted may be deleted.  Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to, the following:       - Fat-acceptance political activism      - Events relating to fat-acceptance      - Medical research and related research papers      - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including        nutrition and exercise for large people)      - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order        catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to        requests for such information      - Personal anecdotes about being fat      - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements      - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs  Frequently asked questions (FAQ) ================================  The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks will be used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort.  Amending This Charter =====================  This charter cannot be amended, however the moderators reserve the right to modify the moderation policy at any time to maintain the spirit of the charter.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  Moderator: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Moderator: Nully Fydyan <[email protected]> Moderator: Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> Moderator: Sharon Curtis <[email protected]> Moderator: Jean Crawford <[email protected]> Moderator: Jessica Hankins <[email protected]> Moderator: Moira Harris <[email protected]> Moderator: Tina Marie <[email protected]> Moderator: Stef Maruch <[email protected]> Moderator: Annette M. Stroud <[email protected]>  END MODERATOR INFO.                  Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for:           soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderation style  What is the purpose of the FAQ?  This FAQ serves to answer questions about how moderation is performed on the soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (ssfam) newsgroup.  ======================================================================  What types of posts will be disallowed on the newsgroup?  1. Trolls 2. Spam 3. Personal Attacks 4. Inappropriate posts 5. Binaries 6. Cross posts  1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to    provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.  2. Spam is an off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of    commercialism or zealotry.  3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the    newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.    For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,    but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific    allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that    poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as    personal attacks.  4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support    group for people who want a break from the "weight control is    good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western    society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical    information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight    control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of    messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about    these topics will not be approved:     (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,        or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,        drugs, exercise, and other methods will not be approved.        (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages        that say "even though [weight control method] is not for        everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this        restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-        acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed        his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail        about a particular method for weight control that worked for        the poster will be considered advocacy unless the surrounding        fat-acceptance context is clear.         Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for        same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight        control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of        scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the        refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.         Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not        advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about        exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about        exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.     (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those        of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell        a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in        large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more        than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point        people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before        being posted in order to confirm that the products are        actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in        the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators        will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site        does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all        future posts from that vendor may be rejected.         The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise        fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's        primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.         If the moderators believe that the amount or type of        advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of        the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put        additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This        change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation        mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of        the moderators.         Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept        personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online        Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to        soc.personals.  5. Binaries, with the exception small binaries used to authenticate    (E.g. PGP keys), will be filtered out.  6. Cross-posting of FAQs will be allowed, but any other cross-posted    messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all    other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  Spam that    is cross-posted may be deleted.  ======================================================================  Where can I post things that aren't appropriate to this newsgroup?  Personal ads can be posted to soc.personals or any number of web sites set up for that purpose.  Discussion weight loss and weight control methods may be posted to: alt.support.diet alt.support.diet.fit-for-life alt.support.diet.low-carb alt.support.diet.rx alt.support.diet.zone sci.med.nutrition  Spam and Trolling are not appropriate for any newsgroup.  If you want to post flames go to one of the many flame groups available in the alt.* hierarchy.  There are many alt.binaries newsgroups if you want to exchange binaries.  ======================================================================  What will the user see of moderation?  Software will notice new posters and will send them a greeting. That greeting will contain a form for them to fill out indicating their familiarity with the etiquette of the newsgroup and their agreement to follow those rules. Once the new posters agree, the first posts they send to the newsgroup will be hand moderated. After the moderators are convinced the user intends to follow the rules of the newsgroup, they will allowed to post without human intervention as long as they follow these rules.  Posters who continually violate these rules will be warned at least three times by the moderators.  Posters who are repeatedly warned yet still violate the rules may be put on a list of people who will be hand moderated.  If posters don't re-violate the rules for 30 days after a warning, the warning goes away and they get a clean slate.  However, someone who habitually breaks the rules every 31 (or so) days, will be subject to hand moderation at the discretion of the moderators.  To be removed from this list after being placed there for the first time, posters must send e-mail to the moderators promising to follow the above rules. The moderators will then reinstate them.  The second time they are put on the list, they may be there for a minimum of one month.  After the month has expired they can again ask to be removed from the hand moderation list.  If they have not violated the charter during the last month their request will be granted.  Thereafter, posters who have been placed in the hand moderation list will be automatically brought to the attention of the moderators at six-month intervals. At this point, the moderators will then decide whether or not to remove the posters from the hand moderation list.  ======================================================================  What else will be disapproved by the moderators?  Any thread which seems to be in danger of venturing into personal attack or troll territory will be moderated by hand, subject to the other limitations of the moderation process discussed in the next sections.  ======================================================================  What cross-posts will be allowed?  Cross-posting of FAQs will be allowed, but any other cross-posted messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  Spam that is cross-posted may be deleted.  ======================================================================  How will hand moderation be performed?  Any time a moderator chooses to perform this function they will send a message to the moderation site.  They will then be put on a list of 'online moderators'.  These moderators will have posts sent to them in a round robin fashion.  They can specify how many outstanding messages they can have.  The system will send no more than that many messages to them at one time.  Upon receiving the message, the moderator can accept or reject the post.  If the post is rejected, they can select one of several boiler plate replies, or write one of their own.  All moderator replies will be copied to the fatmods list.  If the message is not received back at the moderation site within half an hour, the message is resent.  If it is still not received within another half hour, the post will be sent to the next available moderator, and the unavailable moderator will be automatically logged out.  When a moderator logs out, any messages that they have not replied to will be sent to the next available moderator.  ======================================================================  What can I do if a message is rejected, or if I have other questions regarding posts?  There is a mailing list, [email protected], that will reach all the moderators.  If you feel like your message should not have been rejected feel free to contact the moderators as a group.  If any one of the moderators thinks that the message should not have been rejected, it will be posted.  If any one of the moderators thinks the message should not have been rejected, you may resubmit it and it will be posted.  The moderators reserve the right to ignore mail that is clearly abusive. It should be remembered that the moderators are volunteers and that they are attempting to be as fair as possible in this situation - and as such should not be expected to be treated as a "shooting gallery".  ======================================================================  What can be done about problems with the moderation panel?  Discussion of how well moderation is going, in general, may take place on the newsgroup.  Such posts should have META: prepended to the subject line.  If discussion of the mechanics of moderation begins to take over the newsgroup, the moderators will ask people to move the discussion to the listserv.  The moderators reserve the right to require that such discussion take place on the listserv, but will do that only if the public request to do so is largely ignored and the discussion continues to negatively affect the supportive atmosphere of the newsgroup.  Anyone interested in the moderation discussion should post to: [email protected]  This list is publicly accessible, and anyone who wants to join can send a message to famod-request or famod-digest-request on the same machine with the word 'subscribe' in the body of the message.  The people who participate on this listserv have no official power. This list is simply a publicly accessible place where people can air their grievances. It is to be understood that bringing a post to this list is accepting the greater propagation of the more public list.  If a majority of the moderators decide that a moderator is indeed abusing his or her power, he or she will be removed from the list of moderators or censured at the discretion of the majority of moderators.  An oversight committee consisting of Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>, Nully Fydyan <[email protected]>, and Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> has been created.  They have agreed to monitor all traffic on the moderators' and public mailing lists.  They are listed in the RFD as official moderators but do not process messages.  Instead they act on behalf of the posters to ensure that the moderators act within the spirit of the charter.  The moderators who will be processing posts have agreed to abdicate as a group if Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>, Nully Fydyan <[email protected]>, and/or Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> feel it to be necessary.  All future moderators who are added to the list must also agree to this.  In the event of abdication, the moderation address will be changed to a new group of moderators if a group acceptable to the oversight moderators is found. If not, the moderators will have no alternative but to comply with the Usenet requirement that they generate a request to remove the group from Usenet.  ======================================================================  How many moderators will there be?  The number of moderators processing posts shall be no more than nine (9) and no less than three (3) moderators.  The number of oversight moderators will be three (3).  ======================================================================  How can moderators be added?  When the current moderators deem it necessary to add to the number of moderators processing posts or to replace those who are leaving, the moderation panel will solicit volunteers from the newsgroup participants.  A volunteer must be approved by a 2/3 majority of the current moderators (including the oversight moderators).  Oversight moderators can only be replaced by moderators who have been on the list of moderators who process posts for at least six months and who are not strenuously objected to by the current regular users of the newsgroup (this is important because the oversight moderators are responsible for making sure that the post processing moderators act within the spirit of the charter).  If an oversight moderator needs to be replaced, discussion of the replacement candidates will take place either on the newsgroup or on the listservs (if the newsgroup discussion is deemed disruptive by the moderators).  A 2/3 majority of the current moderators (including the oversight moderators) is necessary for a replacement oversight moderator to be approved.  ======================================================================  Who are the moderators?  The moderators processing posts for the newsgroup are (in alphabetical order by last name):  Sharon Curtis <[email protected]> Jean Crawford <[email protected]> Jessica Hankins <[email protected]> Moira Harris <[email protected]> Tina Marie <[email protected]> Stef Maruch <[email protected]> Annette M. Stroud <[email protected]>  You can reach the moderators at: [email protected] Just send your messages to that address.  The moderators who are acting on the oversight committee are (in alphabetical order by last name):  Nully Fydyan <[email protected]> Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]>  PROCEDURE:  This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.  All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.  This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process.  DISTRIBUTION: news.announce.newgroups news.groups soc.support.fat-acceptance alt.support.big-folks.  Proponent: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>  From [email protected] Thu Jul  1 18:14:05 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.support.big-folks,soc.support.fat-acceptance Subject: CFV: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 24 Jul 1999 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 01:04:13 GMT Lines: 645 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11080 news.groups:320482 soc.support.fat-acceptance:70158                       FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)          moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups line: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 23 Jul 1999.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Mentor: Jay Denebeim <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups, alt.support.big-folks and soc.support.fat-acceptance, that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.  CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics relevant to being fat. This is a support group. Abuse of individuals and groups based on their appearance is not tolerated. All self- defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour aspects of size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are building a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The important thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal attacks (see the policy statement for details on this issue).  Moderation policy:  Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post messages on topics including, but not limited to, the following:       - Fat-acceptance political activism      - Events relating to fat-acceptance      - Medical research and related research papers      - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including        nutrition and exercise for large people)      - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order        catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to        requests for such information      - Personal anecdotes about being fat      - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements      - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs  Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is moderated to block the following specific types of posts:  1. Trolls 2. Off-topic, promotional posts 3. Personal Attacks 4. Inappropriate posts 5. Binaries 6. Cross posts  1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to    provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.  2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or    zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the    definition of spam by being posted multiple times).  3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the    newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.    For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,    but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific    allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that    poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as    personal attacks.  4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support    group for people who want a break from the "weight control is    good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western    society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical    information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight    control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of    messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about    these topics are not approved:     (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,        or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,        drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.        (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages        that say "even though [weight control method] is not for        everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this        restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-        acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed        his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail        about a particular method for weight control that worked for        the poster is considered advocacy unless the surrounding        fat-acceptance context is clear.         Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for        same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight        control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of        scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the        refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.         Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not        advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about        exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about        exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.     (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those        of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell        a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in        large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more        than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point        people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before        being posted in order to confirm that the products are        actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in        the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators        will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site        does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all        future posts from that vendor may be rejected.         The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise        fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's        primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.         If the moderators believe that the amount or type of        advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of        the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put        additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This        change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation        mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of        the moderators.         Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept        personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online        Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to        soc.personals.  5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g. PGP keys), are    filtered out.  6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted    messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all    other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  Frequently asked questions (FAQ) --------------------------------  The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks are used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort. The moderation style FAQ appended below is part of said web site and is posted twice a month to soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated.  Amending This Charter ---------------------  This charter cannot be amended because there is no widely accepted way to do charter amendment in the Big 8. Should this change, the Charter will be amendable according to the new policy. The moderators reserve the right to change the moderation policy at any time to maintain the spirit of the charter.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  Moderator: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Moderator: Nully Fydyan <[email protected]> Moderator: Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> Moderator: Sharon Curtis <[email protected]> Moderator: Jean Crawford <[email protected]> Moderator: Jessica Hankins <[email protected]> Moderator: Moira Harris <[email protected]> Moderator: Tina Marie <[email protected]> Moderator: Stef Maruch <[email protected]> Moderator: "Annette M. Stroud" <[email protected]> Administrative contact address: [email protected] Article submission address: [email protected]  END MODERATOR INFO.  The section that follows will be the FAQ for moderation, but is included here because it was part of the RFD.                  Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for:           soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderation style  What is the purpose of the FAQ?  This FAQ serves to answer questions about how moderation is performed on the soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (ssfam) newsgroup. The section on what encouraged and not allowed is taken directly from the Charter.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What types of posts are encouraged on the newsgroup?  Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to, the following:       - Fat-acceptance political activism      - Events relating to fat-acceptance      - Medical research and related research papers      - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including        nutrition and exercise for large people)      - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order        catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to        requests for such information      - Personal anecdotes about being fat      - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements      - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What types of posts are disallowed on the newsgroup?  1. Trolls 2. Off-topic, promotional posts 3. Personal Attacks 4. Inappropriate posts 5. Binaries 6. Cross posts  1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to    provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.  2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or    zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the    definition of spam by being posted multiple times).  3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the    newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.    For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,    but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific    allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that    poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as    personal attacks.  4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support    group for people who want a break from the "weight control is    good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western    society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical    information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight    control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of    messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about    these topics are not approved:     (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,        or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,        drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.        (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages        that say "even though [weight control method] is not for        everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this        restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-        acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed        his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail        about a particular method for weight control that worked for        the poster are considered advocacy unless the surrounding        fat-acceptance context is clear.         Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for        same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight        control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of        scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the        refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.         Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not        advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about        exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about        exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.     (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those        of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell        a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in        large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more        than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point        people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before        being posted in order to confirm that the products are        actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in        the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators        will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site        does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all        future posts from that vendor may be rejected.         The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise        fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's        primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.         If the moderators believe that the amount or type of        advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of        the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put        additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This        change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation        mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of        the moderators.         Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept        personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online        Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to        soc.personals.  5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g., PGP keys),    are filtered out.  6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted    messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all    other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  Where can I post things that aren't appropriate to this newsgroup?  Personal ads can be posted to soc.personals or any number of web sites set up for that purpose. They are listed in the Online Resources for Big Folks FAQ.  Discussion weight loss and weight control methods may be posted to: alt.support.diet alt.support.diet.fit-for-life alt.support.diet.low-carb alt.support.diet.rx alt.support.diet.zone sci.med.nutrition  If you want to post flames go to one of the many flame groups available in the alt.* hierarchy.  There are many alt.binaries newsgroups if you want to exchange binaries.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What does the user see of moderation?  Software notices new posters and sends them a greeting. That greeting contains a form for them to fill out indicating their familiarity with the etiquette of the newsgroup and their agreement to follow those rules. Once the new posters agree, the first posts they send to the newsgroup will be hand moderated. After the moderators are convinced the user intends to follow the rules of the newsgroup, they are allowed to post without human intervention as long as they follow these rules.  Currently people must use a replyable address when posting to ssfa-m. The moderators will provide technical assistance on avoiding spam and may address the issue in other ways if it turns out to be a significant problem for posters.  Posters who continually violate these rules are warned at least three times by the moderators.  Posters who are repeatedly warned yet still violate the rules may be put on a list of people who are hand moderated.  If posters don't re-violate the rules for 30 days after a warning, the warning goes away and they get a clean slate.  However, someone who habitually breaks the rules every 31 (or so) days is subject to hand moderation at the discretion of the moderators.  To be removed from this list after being placed there for the first time, posters must send e-mail to the moderators promising to follow the above rules. The moderators then reinstate them.  The second time they are put on the list, they may be there for a minimum of one month.  After the month has expired they can again ask to be removed from the hand moderation list.  If they have not violated the charter during the last month their request will be granted.  Thereafter, posters who have been placed in the hand moderation list are automatically brought to the attention of the moderators at six-month intervals. At this point, the moderators decide whether or not to remove the posters from the hand moderation list.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What else is disapproved by the moderators?  Any thread which seems to be in danger of venturing into personal attack or troll territory is moderated by hand, subject to the other limitations of the moderation process discussed in the next sections.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What cross-posts are allowed?  Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  How is hand moderation be performed?  Any time a moderator chooses to perform this function they send a message to the moderation site.  They are then put on a list of 'online moderators'.  These moderators have posts sent to them in a round robin fashion.  They can specify how many outstanding messages they can have.  The system sends no more than that many messages to them at one time.  Upon receiving the message, the moderator can accept or reject the post.  If the post is rejected, they can select one of several boiler plate replies, or write one of their own.  All moderator replies are copied to the fatmods list.  If the message is not received back at the moderation site within half an hour, the message is resent.  If it is still not received within another half hour, the post is sent to the next available moderator, and the unavailable moderator is automatically logged out.  When a moderator logs out, any messages that they have not replied to are sent to the next available moderator.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What can I do if a message is rejected, or if I have other questions regarding posts?  There is a mailing list, [email protected], that will reach all the moderators.  If you feel like your message should not have been rejected feel free to contact the moderators as a group.  If any one of the moderators thinks the message should not have been rejected, you may resubmit it and it will be posted.  The moderators reserve the right to ignore mail that is clearly abusive. It should be remembered that the moderators are volunteers and that they are attempting to be as fair as possible in this situation - and as such should not be expected to be treated as a "shooting gallery".  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What can be done about problems with the moderation panel?  Discussion of how well moderation is going, in general, may take place on the newsgroup.  Such posts should have META: prepended to the subject line.  If discussion of the mechanics of moderation begins to take over the newsgroup, the moderators will ask people to move the discussion to the listserv.  The moderators reserve the right to require that such discussion take place on the listserv, but will do that only if the public request to do so is largely ignored and the discussion continues to negatively affect the supportive atmosphere of the newsgroup.  Anyone interested in the moderation discussion should post to: [email protected]  This list is publicly accessible, and anyone who wants to join can send a message to famod-request or famod-digest-request on the same machine with the word 'subscribe' in the body of the message.  The people who participate on this listserv have no official power. This list is simply a publicly accessible place where people can air their grievances. It is to be understood that bringing a post to this list is accepting the greater propagation of the more public list.  If a majority of the moderators decide that a moderator is indeed abusing his or her power, he or she will be removed from the list of moderators or censured at the discretion of the majority of moderators.  An oversight committee consisting of Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>, Nully Fydyan <[email protected]>, and Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> has been created.  They have agreed to monitor all traffic on the moderators' and public mailing lists.  They are listed in the RFD as official moderators but do not process messages.  Instead they act on behalf of the posters to ensure that the moderators act within the spirit of the charter.  The moderators who are processing posts have agreed to abdicate as a group if Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>, Nully Fydyan <[email protected]>, and/or Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> feel it to be necessary.  All future moderators who are added to the list must also agree to this.  In the event of abdication, the moderation address will be changed to a new group of moderators if a group acceptable to the oversight moderators is found. If not, the moderators will have no alternative but to comply with the Usenet requirement that they generate a request to remove the group from Usenet.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  How many moderators will there be?  The number of moderators processing posts shall be no more than nine (9) and no less than three (3) moderators.  The number of oversight moderators will be three (3).  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  How can moderators be added?  When the current moderators deem it necessary to add to the number of moderators processing posts or to replace those who are leaving, the moderation panel will solicit volunteers from the newsgroup participants.  A volunteer must be approved by a 2/3 majority of the current moderators (including the oversight moderators).  Oversight moderators can only be replaced by moderators who have been on the list of moderators who process posts for at least six months and who are not strenuously objected to by the current regular users of the newsgroup (this is important because the oversight moderators are responsible for making sure that the post processing moderators act within the spirit of the charter).  If an oversight moderator needs to be replaced, discussion of the replacement candidates will take place either on the newsgroup or on the listservs (if the newsgroup discussion is deemed disruptive by the moderators).  A 2/3 majority of the current moderators (including the oversight moderators) is necessary for a replacement oversight moderator to be approved.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  Who are the moderators?  The moderators processing posts for the newsgroup are (in alphabetical order by last name):  Sharon Curtis <[email protected]> Jean Crawford <[email protected]> Jessica Hankins <[email protected]> Moira Harris <[email protected]> Tina Marie <[email protected]> Stef Maruch <[email protected]> Annette M. Stroud <[email protected]>  You can reach the moderators at: [email protected] Just send your messages to that address.  The moderators who are acting on the oversight committee are (in alphabetical order by last name):  Nully Fydyan <[email protected]> Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]>  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of this CFV is considered vote fraud.  This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real name or an established Usenet handle.  At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged" address he cannot decipher immediately.  Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (moderated)  ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============  DISTRIBUTION:  The CFV and the eventual RESULT will be posted to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header.  Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be mailed to these lists:  fat-acceptance <[email protected]> Fat and Fit <[email protected]> fa-diab <[email protected]> NAAFA <[email protected]> fatdykes (list admin: [email protected])   This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Mon Jul 12 06:43:38 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.support.big-folks,soc.support.fat-acceptance Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Supersedes: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Expires: 24 Jul 1999 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:37:24 GMT Lines: 657 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11086 news.groups:321593 soc.support.fat-acceptance:71373                        LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)          moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker.  It is not to be posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by the votetaker.  Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.  Newsgroups line: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 23 Jul 1999.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Mentor: Jay Denebeim <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups, alt.support.big-folks and soc.support.fat-acceptance, that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.  CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics relevant to being fat. This is a support group. Abuse of individuals and groups based on their appearance is not tolerated. All self- defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour aspects of size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are building a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The important thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal attacks (see the policy statement for details on this issue).  Moderation policy:  Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post messages on topics including, but not limited to, the following:       - Fat-acceptance political activism      - Events relating to fat-acceptance      - Medical research and related research papers      - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including        nutrition and exercise for large people)      - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order        catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to        requests for such information      - Personal anecdotes about being fat      - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements      - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs  Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is moderated to block the following specific types of posts:  1. Trolls 2. Off-topic, promotional posts 3. Personal Attacks 4. Inappropriate posts 5. Binaries 6. Cross posts  1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to    provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.  2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or    zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the    definition of spam by being posted multiple times).  3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the    newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.    For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,    but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific    allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that    poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as    personal attacks.  4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support    group for people who want a break from the "weight control is    good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western    society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical    information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight    control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of    messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about    these topics are not approved:     (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,        or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,        drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.        (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages        that say "even though [weight control method] is not for        everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this        restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-        acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed        his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail        about a particular method for weight control that worked for        the poster is considered advocacy unless the surrounding        fat-acceptance context is clear.         Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for        same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight        control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of        scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the        refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.         Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not        advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about        exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about        exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.     (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those        of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell        a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in        large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more        than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point        people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before        being posted in order to confirm that the products are        actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in        the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators        will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site        does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all        future posts from that vendor may be rejected.         The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise        fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's        primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.         If the moderators believe that the amount or type of        advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of        the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put        additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This        change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation        mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of        the moderators.         Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept        personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online        Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to        soc.personals.  5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g. PGP keys), are    filtered out.  6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted    messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all    other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  Frequently asked questions (FAQ) --------------------------------  The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks are used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort. The moderation style FAQ appended below is part of said web site and is posted twice a month to soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated.  Amending This Charter ---------------------  This charter cannot be amended because there is no widely accepted way to do charter amendment in the Big 8. Should this change, the Charter will be amendable according to the new policy. The moderators reserve the right to change the moderation policy at any time to maintain the spirit of the charter.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  Moderator: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Moderator: Nully Fydyan <[email protected]> Moderator: Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> Moderator: Sharon Curtis <[email protected]> Moderator: Jean Crawford <[email protected]> Moderator: Jessica Hankins <[email protected]> Moderator: Moira Harris <[email protected]> Moderator: Tina Marie <[email protected]> Moderator: Stef Maruch <[email protected]> Moderator: "Annette M. Stroud" <[email protected]> Administrative contact address: [email protected] Article submission address: [email protected]  END MODERATOR INFO.  The section that follows will be the FAQ for moderation, but is included here because it was part of the RFD.                  Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for:           soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderation style  What is the purpose of the FAQ?  This FAQ serves to answer questions about how moderation is performed on the soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (ssfam) newsgroup. The section on what encouraged and not allowed is taken directly from the Charter.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What types of posts are encouraged on the newsgroup?  Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post messages on all other topics, including, but not limited to, the following:       - Fat-acceptance political activism      - Events relating to fat-acceptance      - Medical research and related research papers      - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including        nutrition and exercise for large people)      - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order        catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to        requests for such information      - Personal anecdotes about being fat      - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements      - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What types of posts are disallowed on the newsgroup?  1. Trolls 2. Off-topic, promotional posts 3. Personal Attacks 4. Inappropriate posts 5. Binaries 6. Cross posts  1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to    provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.  2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or    zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the    definition of spam by being posted multiple times).  3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the    newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.    For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,    but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific    allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that    poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as    personal attacks.  4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support    group for people who want a break from the "weight control is    good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western    society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical    information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight    control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of    messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about    these topics are not approved:     (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,        or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,        drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.        (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages        that say "even though [weight control method] is not for        everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this        restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-        acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed        his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail        about a particular method for weight control that worked for        the poster are considered advocacy unless the surrounding        fat-acceptance context is clear.         Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for        same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight        control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of        scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the        refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.         Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not        advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about        exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about        exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.     (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those        of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell        a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in        large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more        than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point        people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before        being posted in order to confirm that the products are        actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in        the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators        will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site        does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all        future posts from that vendor may be rejected.         The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise        fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's        primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.         If the moderators believe that the amount or type of        advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of        the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put        additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This        change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation        mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of        the moderators.         Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept        personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online        Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to        soc.personals.  5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g., PGP keys),    are filtered out.  6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted    messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all    other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  Where can I post things that aren't appropriate to this newsgroup?  Personal ads can be posted to soc.personals or any number of web sites set up for that purpose. They are listed in the Online Resources for Big Folks FAQ.  Discussion weight loss and weight control methods may be posted to: alt.support.diet alt.support.diet.fit-for-life alt.support.diet.low-carb alt.support.diet.rx alt.support.diet.zone sci.med.nutrition  If you want to post flames go to one of the many flame groups available in the alt.* hierarchy.  There are many alt.binaries newsgroups if you want to exchange binaries.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What does the user see of moderation?  Software notices new posters and sends them a greeting. That greeting contains a form for them to fill out indicating their familiarity with the etiquette of the newsgroup and their agreement to follow those rules. Once the new posters agree, the first posts they send to the newsgroup will be hand moderated. After the moderators are convinced the user intends to follow the rules of the newsgroup, they are allowed to post without human intervention as long as they follow these rules.  Currently people must use a replyable address when posting to ssfa-m. The moderators will provide technical assistance on avoiding spam and may address the issue in other ways if it turns out to be a significant problem for posters.  Posters who continually violate these rules are warned at least three times by the moderators.  Posters who are repeatedly warned yet still violate the rules may be put on a list of people who are hand moderated.  If posters don't re-violate the rules for 30 days after a warning, the warning goes away and they get a clean slate.  However, someone who habitually breaks the rules every 31 (or so) days is subject to hand moderation at the discretion of the moderators.  To be removed from this list after being placed there for the first time, posters must send e-mail to the moderators promising to follow the above rules. The moderators then reinstate them.  The second time they are put on the list, they may be there for a minimum of one month.  After the month has expired they can again ask to be removed from the hand moderation list.  If they have not violated the charter during the last month their request will be granted.  Thereafter, posters who have been placed in the hand moderation list are automatically brought to the attention of the moderators at six-month intervals. At this point, the moderators decide whether or not to remove the posters from the hand moderation list.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What else is disapproved by the moderators?  Any thread which seems to be in danger of venturing into personal attack or troll territory is moderated by hand, subject to the other limitations of the moderation process discussed in the next sections.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What cross-posts are allowed?  Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  How is hand moderation be performed?  Any time a moderator chooses to perform this function they send a message to the moderation site.  They are then put on a list of 'online moderators'.  These moderators have posts sent to them in a round robin fashion.  They can specify how many outstanding messages they can have.  The system sends no more than that many messages to them at one time.  Upon receiving the message, the moderator can accept or reject the post.  If the post is rejected, they can select one of several boiler plate replies, or write one of their own.  All moderator replies are copied to the fatmods list.  If the message is not received back at the moderation site within half an hour, the message is resent.  If it is still not received within another half hour, the post is sent to the next available moderator, and the unavailable moderator is automatically logged out.  When a moderator logs out, any messages that they have not replied to are sent to the next available moderator.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What can I do if a message is rejected, or if I have other questions regarding posts?  There is a mailing list, [email protected], that will reach all the moderators.  If you feel like your message should not have been rejected feel free to contact the moderators as a group.  If any one of the moderators thinks the message should not have been rejected, you may resubmit it and it will be posted.  The moderators reserve the right to ignore mail that is clearly abusive. It should be remembered that the moderators are volunteers and that they are attempting to be as fair as possible in this situation - and as such should not be expected to be treated as a "shooting gallery".  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  What can be done about problems with the moderation panel?  Discussion of how well moderation is going, in general, may take place on the newsgroup.  Such posts should have META: prepended to the subject line.  If discussion of the mechanics of moderation begins to take over the newsgroup, the moderators will ask people to move the discussion to the listserv.  The moderators reserve the right to require that such discussion take place on the listserv, but will do that only if the public request to do so is largely ignored and the discussion continues to negatively affect the supportive atmosphere of the newsgroup.  Anyone interested in the moderation discussion should post to: [email protected]  This list is publicly accessible, and anyone who wants to join can send a message to famod-request or famod-digest-request on the same machine with the word 'subscribe' in the body of the message.  The people who participate on this listserv have no official power. This list is simply a publicly accessible place where people can air their grievances. It is to be understood that bringing a post to this list is accepting the greater propagation of the more public list.  If a majority of the moderators decide that a moderator is indeed abusing his or her power, he or she will be removed from the list of moderators or censured at the discretion of the majority of moderators.  An oversight committee consisting of Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>, Nully Fydyan <[email protected]>, and Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> has been created.  They have agreed to monitor all traffic on the moderators' and public mailing lists.  They are listed in the RFD as official moderators but do not process messages.  Instead they act on behalf of the posters to ensure that the moderators act within the spirit of the charter.  The moderators who are processing posts have agreed to abdicate as a group if Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]>, Nully Fydyan <[email protected]>, and/or Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> feel it to be necessary.  All future moderators who are added to the list must also agree to this.  In the event of abdication, the moderation address will be changed to a new group of moderators if a group acceptable to the oversight moderators is found. If not, the moderators will have no alternative but to comply with the Usenet requirement that they generate a request to remove the group from Usenet.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  How many moderators will there be?  The number of moderators processing posts shall be no more than nine (9) and no less than three (3) moderators.  The number of oversight moderators will be three (3).  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  How can moderators be added?  When the current moderators deem it necessary to add to the number of moderators processing posts or to replace those who are leaving, the moderation panel will solicit volunteers from the newsgroup participants.  A volunteer must be approved by a 2/3 majority of the current moderators (including the oversight moderators).  Oversight moderators can only be replaced by moderators who have been on the list of moderators who process posts for at least six months and who are not strenuously objected to by the current regular users of the newsgroup (this is important because the oversight moderators are responsible for making sure that the post processing moderators act within the spirit of the charter).  If an oversight moderator needs to be replaced, discussion of the replacement candidates will take place either on the newsgroup or on the listservs (if the newsgroup discussion is deemed disruptive by the moderators).  A 2/3 majority of the current moderators (including the oversight moderators) is necessary for a replacement oversight moderator to be approved.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  Who are the moderators?  The moderators processing posts for the newsgroup are (in alphabetical order by last name):  Sharon Curtis <[email protected]> Jean Crawford <[email protected]> Jessica Hankins <[email protected]> Moira Harris <[email protected]> Tina Marie <[email protected]> Stef Maruch <[email protected]> Annette M. Stroud <[email protected]>  You can reach the moderators at: [email protected] Just send your messages to that address.  The moderators who are acting on the oversight committee are (in alphabetical order by last name):  Nully Fydyan <[email protected]> Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]>  IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING  The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of this CFV is considered vote fraud.  This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real name or an established Usenet handle.  At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.  Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent accounts are also invalid, and the votetaker will reject any "munged" address he cannot decipher immediately.  Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <[email protected]>  HOW TO VOTE:  Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!  Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.  Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:    [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote   [ NO      ]  example.no.vote   [ ABSTAIN ]  example.abstention   [ CANCEL  ]  example.cancellation  DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.  When finished, MAIL the ballot to: < [email protected] > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem.  You are responsible for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.  If these instructions are unclear, please consult the Introduction to Usenet Voting or the Usenet Voting FAQ at http://www.stanford.edu/~neilc/uvv.  ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated | Official Usenet Voting Ballot  (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.  Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:  Voter name:  | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):   Your Vote   Newsgroup  ---------   ----------------------------------------------------------- [         ]  soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated (moderated)  ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============  DISTRIBUTION:  The CFV and the eventual RESULT will be posted to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header.  Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be mailed to these lists:  fat-acceptance <[email protected]> Fat and Fit <[email protected]> fa-diab <[email protected]> NAAFA <[email protected]> fatdykes (list admin: [email protected])   soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Bounce List - Please contact me about your vote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [email protected]                                                   Bill White [email protected]                                                David Wolff [email protected]                                  Kent Leonard

[email protected]                                                Mary-Anne Wolf [email protected]                                           Priscilla H. Ballou [email protected]                                                        sarund [email protected]                                       DIANE JOHNSTON [email protected]                                       May Eckertson [email protected]                             Cheryl L Martin  This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Feb  6 1999). PQ datestamp: 980322  --  Voting address: [email protected]  From [email protected] Sun Jul 25 21:28:16 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Neil Crellin <[email protected]> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.support.big-folks,soc.support.fat-acceptance Subject: RESULT: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated moderated passes 310:67 Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Supersedes: <[email protected]> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:27:22 GMT Lines: 620 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11101 news.groups:322865 soc.support.fat-acceptance:73010                                  RESULT   moderated group soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated passes 310:67  There were 310 YES votes and 67 NO votes, for a total of 377 valid votes.  There were 11 abstentions and 5 invalid ballots.  For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes.  There must also be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.  A five day discussion period follows this announcement.  If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter.  Newsgroups line: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated	Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated)  The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 23 Jul 1999.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.  Proponent: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Mentor: Jay Denebeim <[email protected]> Votetaker: Neil Crellin <[email protected]>  RATIONALE: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  There are currently two unmoderated newsgroups, alt.support.big-folks and soc.support.fat-acceptance, that provide a forum for discussion of the fat acceptance movement and other issues in the lives of those of us who are larger than average. Unfortunately, those newsgroups are frequently hit by trollers and spammers posting abusive attacks against large people and endless advertisements for weight loss products.  We wish to create a new, moderated group in order to provide an environment that is free of the above-mentioned attacks and advertisements.  CHARTER: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  This group provides a supportive forum for the discussion of the personal and political goals of fat acceptance and other topics relevant to being fat. This is a support group. Abuse of individuals and groups based on their appearance is not tolerated. All self- defined fat people who are self-accepting, or are working towards self-acceptance are welcome, as are non-fat people who also favour aspects of size-acceptance. Please be aware that wherever people are building a community, controversy and conflict are inevitable. The important thing is that the controversy does not turn into personal attacks (see the policy statement for details on this issue).  Moderation policy:  Readers of soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated are encouraged to post messages on topics including, but not limited to, the following:       - Fat-acceptance political activism      - Events relating to fat-acceptance      - Medical research and related research papers      - Information on healthy living as a fat person (including        nutrition and exercise for large people)      - Resources for fat people (including clothes, mail order        catalogs, etc.), either newly discovered or in response to        requests for such information      - Personal anecdotes about being fat      - Sharing complaints and peeves or triumphs and achievements      - Discussion of the dangers of weight loss surgery and drugs  Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is moderated to block the following specific types of posts:  1. Trolls 2. Off-topic, promotional posts 3. Personal Attacks 4. Inappropriate posts 5. Binaries 6. Cross posts  1. Trolls are posts that the moderators believe were posted only to    provoke members of the group into responding heatedly.  2. Off-topic, promotional post made for reasons of commercialism or    zealotry are blocked (regardless of whether such posts meet the    definition of spam by being posted multiple times).  3. Personal attacks are personal insults against members of the    newsgroup. (Note: criticisms of ideas are not personal attacks.    For example: "that's an idiotic idea" is not a personal attack,    but "you are an utter dimwit" is a personal attack.). Specific    allegations that can't be backed up with evidence (such as "that    poster secretly works for Jenny Craig") may be construed as    personal attacks.  4. Soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated is intended as a support    group for people who want a break from the "weight control is    good" and "anti-body-acceptance" messages ubiquitous in western    society. It is not intended as a source for definitive medical    information on weight or a forum for debate on whether weight    control is a good idea. Therefore, there are some types of    messages that are not appropriate to this forum. Messages about    these topics are not approved:     (1) Advocacy of weight (or fat) control (reduction, maintenance,        or gain) Messages advocating weight control via surgery, diet,        drugs, exercise, and other methods are not approved.        (Advocating means "promoting as good or useful.") Messages        that say "even though [weight control method] is not for        everyone, it improved *my* life" are included under this        restriction unless there is a surrounding context of fat-        acceptance. A simple statement *that* a poster changed        his/her weight is not advocacy, but going into any detail        about a particular method for weight control that worked for        the poster is considered advocacy unless the surrounding        fat-acceptance context is clear.         Discussions of the dangers of weight control and methods for        same, and discussions of negative experiences with weight        control attempts or methods, are allowed. Refutations of        scientific evidence presented by such posts are allowed if the        refutations are explicitly made in a fat-acceptance context.         Discussions of surgery, diet, drugs, and exercise that do not        advocate weight control are allowed. For example, a post about        exercising to become stronger is allowed, but a post about        exercising in order to lose weight is not allowed.     (2) Personal Ads/Advertisements for products other than those        of interest to fat or fat-accepting people. Vendors who sell        a fat-accepting product for fat people (such as clothing in        large sizes) may post something about their businesses no more        than once per month.  The preferred way to do this is to point        people to a web site. Ads may be checked by a volunteer before        being posted in order to confirm that the products are        actually for fat people.  Please use the tag word ADVERT: in        the subject line of such posts. (If you do not, the moderators        will prepend ADVERT: to the subject line.)  If a vendor's site        does not represent what an ad leads people to believe, all        future posts from that vendor may be rejected.         The moderators' goal is to allow companies to advertise        fat-positive products, as a useful adjunct to the newsgroup's        primary purpose, which is discussion of fat-acceptance.         If the moderators believe that the amount or type of        advertising being posted is distracting from the quality of        the discussion, the moderators reserve the right to put        additional limits on the amount or type of advertising. This        change will be accomplished via discussion on the moderation        mailing list and will be put into place following a vote of        the moderators.         Personal ads are not allowed. Many web sites that accept        personal ads for/from big people are listed in the Online        Resources for Big Folks FAQ, or you can post them to        soc.personals.  5. Binaries, with the exception of small binaries (e.g. PGP keys), are    filtered out.  6. Cross-posting of FAQs is allowed, but any other cross-posted    messages may be returned to the sender with a request that all    other newsgroups be removed and the post resubmitted.  Frequently asked questions (FAQ) --------------------------------  The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and web site presently used by the newsgroups soc.support.fat-acceptance and alt.support.big-folks are used by this newsgroup to avoid duplication of effort. The moderation style FAQ appended below is part of said web site and is posted twice a month to soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated.  Amending This Charter ---------------------  This charter cannot be amended because there is no widely accepted way to do charter amendment in the Big 8. Should this change, the Charter will be amendable according to the new policy. The moderators reserve the right to change the moderation policy at any time to maintain the spirit of the charter.  END CHARTER.  MODERATOR INFO: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated  Moderator: Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> Moderator: Nully Fydyan <[email protected]> Moderator: Mary-Anne Wolf <[email protected]> Moderator: Sharon Curtis <[email protected]> Moderator: Jean Crawford <[email protected]> Moderator: Jessica Hankins <[email protected]> Moderator: Moira Harris <[email protected]> Moderator: Tina Marie <[email protected]> Moderator: Stef Maruch <[email protected]> Moderator: "Annette M. Stroud" <[email protected]> Administrative contact address: [email protected] Article submission address: [email protected]  END MODERATOR INFO.   soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Final Voter list  NOTE:  This is not [to be used as] a mailing list.  The email addresses are posted only to help verify the interest poll.  Thank you.  Voted YES ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tonib [at] tpg.com.au                                      Antoinette Buchanan dany.steyaert [at] ping.be                                       Dany Steyaert af975 [at] freenet.carleton.ca                           Jennifer-Anne Coulter ax976 [at] freenet.carleton.ca                                   Neena Singhal eg414 [at] freenet.carleton.ca                                    Tina M. Wood rich [at] alcor.concordia.ca                                     Rich Lafferty zivkoi [at] muss.cis.McMaster.CA                                      I. Zivko tofu [at] fountain.nslug.ns.ca                              Ariannah Armstrong synrg [at] sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca                                 Ben Armstrong trevort [at] inorth.on.ca                                       Trevor Tymchuk travis [at] SEDSystems.ca                                   Shane H. W. Travis tvor [at] ns.sympatico.ca                                       DIANE JOHNSTON sanderso [at] uoguelph.ca                                      Sherry Anderson ru [at] cls.usask.ca                                               Ru Igarashi Lorene.Turner [at] usask.ca                                      Lorene Turner silvertiger [at] shaw.wave.ca                                   Leslie Lalonde Geri_Finkelstein [at] notes.amdahl.com                        Geri Finkelstein Alphabet40 [at] aol.com                                        Amelia Johnston amuse2000 [at] aol.com                                            Marie Wilson aquafool [at] aol.com                                              Helen Woods basche41 [at] aol.com                                            Lori Lawrence BethA1515 [at] aol.com                                             Beth Vechey blueiris44 [at] aol.com                                              Emma Hunt BobSJers [at] aol.com                                         Robert Sponaugle BrinInSF [at] aol.com                                    Brin-Marie McLaughlin ComplexGal [at] aol.com                                  Kathleen  Ford Siegel ConnieG999 [at] aol.com dasjem [at] aol.com                                              James McElroy DebBurgard [at] aol.com                                            Deb Burgard e2chris2 [at] aol.com                                            Chris Statler evie64288 [at] aol.com                                          Evelyn McElroy holly32644 [at] aol.com                                          Holly Culleen JElaineB [at] aol.com                                        Jennifer Bertrand JenknRankn [at] aol.com                                            Olwen Moery jeremymcm1 [at] aol.com                                        Jeremy McMillan Jgillmer [at] aol.com                                             Jeff Gillmer joanne1288 [at] aol.com                                        Jo Anne Dickson kiwilerner [at] aol.com                                            Kira Lerner LiyaSedai [at] aol.com                                           Aurelia Smith Mabray44 [at] aol.com                                            Mary Ann Bray Miditrax [at] aol.com                                                 Miditrax peppercini [at] aol.com                                            Lynn Folsom Psykikstar [at] aol.com                                            Sandie Sabo quadchicky [at] aol.com                                       Jillian Schwartz Rsgerdom [at] aol.com                                           Rebecca Gerdom RTLEASE [at] aol.com                                                Robert Kay SarahEJax [at] aol.com                                             Sarah Jaxon smoking357 [at] aol.com                                       Brian P. Sweeney sopr2 [at] aol.com                                                 Bridget Kay Stefani276 [at] aol.com                                  Stefanie A. Mackenzie TiffanyT [at] aol.com                                              Tiffany Tim TurtIeGirl [at] aol.com txpepsi55 [at] aol.com                                           Luanne Barker vicless [at] aol.com                                                   Vicless voluptbabe [at] aol.com                                        Cheryl Krehbiel Wunderama [at] aol.com                                        Michelle Gennari Zotela [at] aol.com                                                     Laurie KLeonard [at] artisoft.com                                        Kent Leonard zorak111 [at] ballistic.com                                       Tammy Conner enigma [at] BayView.COM                                             Holly Ward jmalina [at] best.com                                            Jo Ann Malina davidbath [at] bigfoot.com                                       David E. Bath justkaren [at] bigfoot.com                                      Karen Milligan jdg [at] but-i-dont-like-spam.boxmail.com                      John David Galt stef [at] cat-and-dragon.com                                       Stef Maruch 76145.2522 [at] compuserve.com                                    Naomi Tilsen 72027.3605 [at] compuserve.com                                      Bob Bailin HCulver [at] compuserve.com                                     HARRIET CULVER eridani [at] databasix.com                                             Belinda gburnore [at] databasix.com                                    Gary L. Burnore ambaker [at] dialus.com                                          Anne M. Baker webmistress [at] divinebbws.com                                 Savannah Smith jasper [at] janssen.dynip.com                                   Jasper Janssen noah [at] email.com                                                 Noah Davis ema25 [at] en.com                                                  Liz Monahan ferret [at] enteract.com                                            Karl Meyer antipi [at] erols.com                                           Polly Berrigan julesd [at] erols.com                                             Jules Dubois mcclenon [at] erols.com                                           Bob McClenon n10363 [at] erols.com                                          Pierrette Smith sdmm [at] erols.com                                              Susan DiMaria techno-babe [at] excite.com                                     Kellene Starks biow [at] ezmort.com                                          Christopher Biow david [at] farrar.com                                             David Farrar mmcool [at] lse.fullfeed.com                                    Melissa Cooley nedra45 [at] geocities.com                                       Nedra De Lima sduncan [at] greensboro.com                                       Susan Duncan anitar [at] halcyon.com                                          Anita Rowland sokolove [at] hers.com                                        Deborah Sokolove dilickjm [at] home.com                                             John Dilick ebehr [at] home.com                                                Eve M. Behr janmm [at] home.com                                                  Jan Magid stormweaver [at] home.com                                          Jene Weaver irfon [at] wave.home.com                                       Irfon-Kim Ahmad bluesad [at] hotmail.com                                                  Blue exerciser [at] hotmail.com                                      Exerciser Mann furball [at] hotmail.com                                              Kelly S. guileless35 [at] hotmail.com                                      H. Honeywell jbuchy [at] hotmail.com                                              Jim Buchy puffaroo [at] hotmail.com                                     Patricia Steward starfire [at] hotmail.com                                           K. Holland wilndorf [at] hotmail.com                                          Helen Honey rshane [at] us.ibm.com                                           Randall Shane hollyking [at] inetarena.com                                  Brendan Van Horn veckerts [at] hf.intel.com                                       May Eckertson annie [at] interlog.com                                             Paula Taft care1 [at] interlog.com                                          Carol Frilegh miranda [at] interlog.com                                          Chris Morte stacia [at] io.com                                              Stacia Kissick zephyn [at] io.com                                                Keith Peyton AileenN [at] itgroup.com                                         Aileen Nelson jaed [at] jaedworks.com                                    Jeanne A. E. DeVoto chris [at] kzim.com                                Christopher Robin Zimmerman zosma [at] lightlink.com                                    Grace V. Palazzolo zthf01 [at] localnet.com                                     Thomas H Fernalld irrelevant [at] MailAndNews.com                                    Jamie Young bessglenn [at] mindspring.com                                       Bess Glenn geekgrrl222 [at] mindspring.com                                          S M B kymellie [at] mindspring.com                                        Erica Lira murraymade [at] mindspring.com                                    Lynne Murray oloryn [at] mindspring.com                                         Ben Coleman sam_chupp [at] mindspring.com                                        Sam Chupp tatiana [at] mindspring.com                                   Tatiana Schwartz naomiy [at] my-Deja.com                                         Naomi K. Young uniqgale [at] my-Deja.com                                                  + + lsimonetta [at] my-dejanews.com                               Leo G. Simonetta tina [at] Starbase.NeoSoft.COM                                      Tina Marie nancy [at] netaxs.com                                           Nancy Lebovitz aahz [at] netcom.com                                                      Aahz abostick [at] netcom.com                                          Alan Bostick dragonma [at] netcom.com                                            Dragonmama der [at] ix.netcom.com                                             Donald Root hobspify [at] ix.netcom.com                                   Laurie D. Sandow julie_c [at] ix.netcom.com                                      Julia Cullison pattist [at] ix.netcom.com                                     Barbara Pattist resourc2 [at] ix.netcom.com                                        Laura Cisco sandyg2 [at] ix.netcom.com                                       Sandra Gordon source [at] netcom.com                                            David Harmon tlh [at] netdoor.com dmescher [at] nortelnetworks.com                                 David Mescher fi [at] oceanstar.com                                            Fiona Webster phil [at] panix.com                                             Phil Gustafson stimpy [at] paralynx.com                                             Jack Webb alice [at] radiancemagazine.com                                 Alice Ansfield susanp [at] repole.com                                            Susan Repole kathy [at] scconsult.com                                          Kathy Pascoe babalon [at] seanet.com                                            Eve Earnest carols [at] sirius.com                                           Carol Squires guyt [at] sirius.com                                             Guy W. Thomas mgw [at] world.std.com                                          Mary-Anne Wolf phb [at] world.std.com                                     Priscilla H. Ballou miche [at] technologist.com                                              Miche cyn [at] technomom.com                                       Cynthia Armistead ennead [at] teleport.com                                            B. Deutsch ry [at] teleport.com                                                Ryan Gavin nsmith [at] micro.ti.com                                            Neal Smith dburgess [at] uniserve.com                                        Doug Burgess nick [at] upsonuk.com                                               Nick Upson dietchef [at] usafa.com                                       Claudia McCreary md [at] wwa.com                                                       L. Smith david [at] xara.com                                           David Matthewman raladue [at] xocolatl.com                                      Ruth Anne Ladue marikaat [at] yahoo.com                                           Maria Tsonis naddy [at] mips.rhein-neckar.de                           Christian Weisgerber vote-big8 [at] kholdan.snafu.de                                    tobias erle jer [at] cs.amherst.edu                                             John Rager jdavis [at] bsod.CS.Arizona.EDU                                      Jim Davis mlkenny [at] asu.edu                                            Mary Lou Kenny stuartb [at] bc.edu                                               Brian Stuart kparsons [at] uclink4.berkeley.edu                            Kathleen Parsons bg19354 [at] binghamton.EDU                                       Nully Fydyan jill [at] alumni.cs.colorado.edu                                Jill Lundquist bioaw124 [at] emory.edu                                           Claire Maier mike.luttrell [at] iac.gatech.edu                                Mike Luttrell ARUGGERI [at] indiana.edu                                 Alena Amato Ruggerio katrina [at] louisville.edu                                       Katrina Rowe howells [at] MIT.EDU                                             Nancy Howells kraemers [at] pilot.msu.edu                                     Stacey Kraemer aelwood [at] MtHolyoke.edu                                        Ann L Elwood cdm [at] nwu.edu                                             Colette D. Marine lverhulst [at] nmff.nwu.edu                                       Lee Verhulst wardk [at] cse.ogi.edu                                              Karen Ward borus.1 [at] osu.edu                                              Judith Borus ecf [at] psc.edu                                              Esther Filderman carolee [at] expert.cc.purdue.edu                               Carolee Barker emma [at] kanpai.stanford.edu                                       Emma Pease MEIER [at] SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                          Vanessa Schnatmeier rick [at] bcm.tmc.edu                                           Richard Miller flaps [at] dgp.toronto.edu                                    Alan J Rosenthal bcr19374 [at] pegasus.cc.ucf.edu                    Brian Christopher Robinson h431 [at] midway.uchicago.edu                                    Heather Blair jhlowens [at] midway.uchicago.edu                            Joanna Lowenstein tachyon [at] cats.ucsc.edu                                      Tan=E9 Tachyon escowles [at] gort.ucsd.edu                                        Esme Cowles bjcraw [at] uidaho.edu                                           Jean Crawford sykes [at] ms.uky.edu                                               Jeff Sykes dmacks [at] sas.upenn.edu                                         Daniel Macks phos8516 [at] postoffice.uri.edu                                  maxine in ri churchyh [at] ccwf.cc.utexas.edu                              Henry Churchyard ziphii [at] u.washington.edu                                 Teresa Klostreich ac1014 [at] wayne.edu                                          Christina Lazic rufinus [at] mbe.ece.wisc.edu                                        J Rufinus ziebarth [at] math.wisc.edu                               Jennifer J. Ziebarth sini.makela [at] helsinki.fi                                   Sini M=E4kel=E4 lea [at] iki.fi                                                  Lea Heikkinen tp39783 [at] uta.fi                                               Angela Pohja porter.clark [at] msfc.nasa.gov                                J. Porter Clark ziegtsc [at] ziegler.co.il                                        Karen Snyder jrosenfeld [at] ameritech.net                                    Joe Rosenfeld dmdf [at] att.net                                                       Denise amandaw [at] worldnet.att.net                                   Mandy Williams gmwade [at] worldnet.att.net                                   Gina Marie Wade alexis.manning [at] worldnet.att.net                            Alexis Manning mapletree [at] worldnet.att.net                                     Robin King MsKarenM [at] worldnet.att.net                                  Karen Melville zeszutko [at] worldnet.att.net                               Mary Ann Zeszutko moonvine [at] austinTX.net                  Kelley Saveika
 | Insert = jdsign [at] avalon.net                                         Julia Daugherty lydiaw [at] bellsouth.net                                     Lydia K. Wheeler jrobert1 [at] bestweb.net                                         Jean Roberts simahoyo [at] blarg.net                                         Linde Knighton cdjworks [at] clark.net                                        Diane W. Hurley marcied [at] cttel.net                                       Marcie Dimenstein greeby [at] kalypso.cybercom.net                                   Carol Moses wesboyd [at] dmci.net                                                 Wes Boyd cvandyke [at] earthlink.net                                   Charles Van Dyke joankeith [at] earthlink.net                                        Joan Keith praxiteles [at] earthlink.net                               ELISABETH M. JONES spoon2000 [at] earthlink.net                                   Betsy Castorena zarah [at] earthlink.net                                       Cheryl Malaguti johngi [at] fair.net                                             John Gillette terriw [at] frontiernet.net                                     Terri Williams mnoyes [at] gsinet.net                                         Michael R Noyes kdenble [at] ibm.net                                          Karen DenBleyker keisa [at] ibm.net                                              Karen Bessason ejoslin [at] ic.net                                               Erica Joslin dvarnau [at] idir.net                                               Don Varnau debbyag [at] philly.infi.net                             Deborah (Debby) Yager raj [at] inspace.net                                            Robert Juliano vr [at] interport.net                                         Vicki Rosenzweig saraha [at] iquest.net                                            Sarah Pickle eddalex [at] jetlink.net                                      Edward Alexander emma.rs [at] lineone.net                                            Emma Monks magpie [at] lmi.net                                               Maggie Young seferguson [at] shell2.mdc.net                                  Stacy Ferguson ganthony [at] mdo.net                                          Gina M. Anthony FatBitch [at] netscape.net                                    Carole Steinfeld subjanet [at] netscape.net                                       Janet Rubicon CourtMoss [at] nova-net.net                                        Ellen Court astroud [at] nyx.net                                         Annette M. Stroud hrmartin [at] pacificcoast.net                                 Helen R. Martin godmom [at] pagesz.net                                           Camille Klein paul_harman [at] pa.press.net                                      Paul Harman debris [at] eagle.ptialaska.net                                   Tayja Dangel spiral [at] ptialaska.net                                        Zailey Dangel ewhitley [at] qis.net                                              Eva Whitley artemis [at] rahul.net                                           Michelle Dick gsprague [at] sky.net                                          Gwen E. Sprague drs [at] slip.net                                                David Stevens kith [at] slip.net                                               Debbie Notkin ladyjane [at] smarty.smart.net                                  Jane M. Lecher jwermont [at] sonic.net                                              J Wermont astarte [at] sover.net                                       Siobhan Perricone hawthorn [at] sover.net                                     Frank J. Perricone ressig [at] suite224.net                                          Robert Essig daoffer [at] texas.net                                                D. Offer lbond [at] theramp.net                                               Lisa Bond naomid [at] shell2.tiac.net                                  Naomi Diesendruck kallisti [at] tiny.net                                          betsy lundsten Ituri [at] toast.net                                              Moira Harris sbarker [at] uconect.net                                                sarund serene-rebel [at] usa.net                                        Sandra Vannoy jmiles [at] usit.net                                            Janet D. Miles pringle [at] usit.net                                             Peggy Morgan pjhoehn [at] mail.vbemail.net                                       Jean Hoehn petal [at] vgernet.net                                           Debra Achnick catxxv [at] webtv.net                                            Stacey Wright Eosinophil [at] webtv.net                                    Christina Cropper erisann [at] webtv.net                                        Shirley-Ann Cole mauraoconnor [at] webtv.net                                     Maura O'Connor Mipsey [at] webtv.net                                            Trixie Porter Mykey400 [at] webtv.net                                            Mike Gorman torry [at] webtv.net                                               Linda Ramos WyntrFoxQC [at] webtv.net                                        Michele Adler holm [at] ziplink.net                                          Juliana L. Holm jlh99 [at] zoomnet.net                                              Jo Hudgins martijn [at] inlv.demon.nl                                      Martijn Dekker obistat [at] plex.nl                                            Elly Jeurissen sgvd [at] xs4all.nl                                           Simon van Dongen Birgitta.Szanday [at] nifu.no                                 Birgitta Szanday zandra [at] online.no                                        Alexandra Nielsen b.m.szanday [at] hfstud.uio.no                                   Beate Szanday Rachel.Priebee [at] wcc.govt.nz                                 Rachel Priebee faigin [at] guinan.aero.org                                   Daniel P. Faigin paulwolf [at] cuyctyengineers.org                                 Paul S. Wolf lloyd [at] galtham.org                                            Lloyd Eldred jenniedo [at] intranet.org                           Jennifer L. Dailey-O'Cain star [at] prairienet.org                                   Samantha Star Straf eridani [at] scn.org                                            Martha Koester chris.dangel [at] pupkus.searhc.org                               Chris Dangel wadfors [at] ebox.tninet.se                                 Margaretha Wadfors magpie [at] megabitch.tm                                       Meg Thornton=20 mjtg [at] cus.cam.ac.uk                                               Mike Guy cjw44 [at] thor.cam.ac.uk                                         Colin Watson johnf [at] epcc.ed.ac.uk                                           John Fisher s.curtis [at] cs.stir.ac.uk                                      Sharon Curtis susan [at] ashton.demon.co.uk                                     Susan Ashton Kev [at] ntec.demon.co.uk                                         Kev Crocombe glenys [at] tgis.co.uk                                   Glenys Williams-Hesse zofran [at] deepthot.aurora.co.us                              Cheryl L Martin  Voted NO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ dspencer [at] accessone.com                                        Dan Spencer igor [at] Algebra.Com                                              igor chudov jerry.williamson [at] amd.com                                 Jerry Williamson Aciolli [at] aol.com                                            Anthony Ciolli sforsell [at] aol.com                                            Scott Forsell valeriepg [at] aol.com                                          Valerie Romano kimdv [at] best.com                                               Kim DeVaughn stainles [at] bga.com                                             Dwight Brown dputzolu [at] BigFoot.com                                        David Putzolu 73765.1026 [at] compuserve.com                                       Frank Lii lis1 [at] cris.com                                               Claire Reiter janus [at] cwo.com                                                 Keith Adams bfalk [at] email.com                                               Benito Falk Elric_of_Imrryr [at] email.com                                      Brad Davis gkerley [at] execpc.com                                          Gillam Kerley neris [at] home.com                                                           caloo_calay [at] hotmail.com                                     Calley Martin jesp [at] hotmail.com                                          Eugenio Sanchez toonerdy [at] hotmail.com                                          Darla Quinn kitkat [at] idmail.com                                                 Marie = quilter [at] idmail.com                                                Linda = eoi [at] iname.com                                                 Eric Widzer jenoff [at] interlog.com                                          Allan Jenoff joshkramer [at] mailandnews.com                                  Joshua Kramer davey_bravo [at] millenicom.com                                    David Walsh gprrspw [at] mindspring.com                                          G.P. Ryan r5555c [at] email.sps.mot.com                                     Alan Chapman olav [at] viking.mv.com                                        Olav Nieuwejaar jgeorge [at] nbi.com                                                Joe George chriseb [at] nortelnetworks.com                                 Chris Ebenezer dc [at] panix.com                                            David W. Crawford squid [at] panix.com                                                  Yeoh Yiu eleroy [at] pbpost.com                                             Erynn LeRoy c28f62 [at] world.std.com                                          Mark Kramer pan [at] syix.com                                                          Pan dougob [at] the-spa.com                                           Doug O'Brien mayp [at] tibco.com                                                Patrick May ed [at] twin-cities.com                                             ed bertsch Castalia23 [at] yahoo.com                                         Chris Fisher mehowe [at] yahoo.com                                             Marc E. Howe sackv [at] uni-duesseldorf.de                                      Victor Sack irwin [at] stat.ohio-state.edu                                      Mark Irwin hougen [at] cs.umn.edu                                             Dean Hougen jbeddow [at] vt.edu                                               Jason Beddow kristian.liimatainen [at] helsinki.fi                        Lauri Liimatainen anders [at] cygnus.dis.anl.gov                                     Judy Anders Charlie.CTR.Armstrong [at] faa.gov                           Charlie Armstrong lmartin [at] airmail.net                                        Lee Martindale tov [at] altavista.net                                              Mike Craig woofer [at] wa.freei.net                                            Misha Baer ellis [at] ftel.net                                                 Rick Ellis sbhattac [at] idt.net                                    Shankar Bhattacharyya mnmhowe [at] initco.net                                           Nichole Howe ccilek [at] nyx.net                                                Chuck Cilek totototo [at] mail.pacificcoast.net                            Rodger Whitlock khan [at] phoenix.net                                                Ray Lloyd khill [at] pinnatel.net                                             Kevin Hill a.dawson [at] pmail.net                                            Alex Dawson arromdee [at] rahul.net                                           Ken Arromdee nfitz [at] sentex.net                                     Nicholas Fitzpatrick Raven_Maniac [at] usa.net                                           Jack Ramos fjohnson [at] uswestmail.net                                     Frank Johnson Peter-Lawrence.Montgomery [at] cwi.nl                      Peter L. Montgomery edward [at] paleo.org                                              Edward Reid stanley [at] peak.org                                             John Stanley miller [at] bits.bris.ac.uk                                       Simon Miller merlin [at] A470.demon.co.uk                                   Darren Wyn Rees  Abstained ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ rgriver [at] chat.carleton.ca                                              Rye dlandhill [at] aol.com                                          D. A. Landhill leigh [at] nbi.com                                                Leigh Melton hood [at] Eng.Sun.COM                                                Mark Hood sbo [at] psy.med.uni-muenchen.de                                Boris Schaefer mmontcha [at] OregonVOS.net                                 Matthew Montchalin kmorgan [at] ptialaska.net                                     Kathy I. Morgan murray-paul [at] usa.net                                           Paul Murray kate [at] haven.eyrie.org                                       Kate Wrightson saraw [at] cd.chalmers.se                                         Sara Wranker denebeim [at] deepthot.aurora.co.us                          Jay Denebeim,home  Invalid votes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ mdeayton [at] bigpond.com                                         Mark Deayton     ! No vote statement in message clarice_s [at] deja.com                                    Clarice S. Saunders     ! Undeliverable address: User unknown dwolff [at] world.std.com                                          David Wolff     ! Undeliverable address: 550 Wrong (!? bad local root DNS server?) kent [at] world.std.com                            Kent Leonard

[email protected]>  From [email protected] Tue Oct 26 14:42:17 1999 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: [email protected] (David C Lawrence) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups Subject: RESULTS UPHELD: soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated, sci.astro.seti Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <[email protected]> Approved: [email protected] Archive-Name: other.articles/votes-upheld Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:34:04 GMT Lines: 98 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:11189 news.groups:332121  Two recent passing votes received a great deal of negative attention in news.groups.  Some people felt the vote for sci.astro.seti was tainted by the posting of pointer to news.announce.newgroups at the sci.astro.seti, and that the vote for soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated was notably biased by a solicitation sent out by an enthusiastic supporter of the group.  I will not be overturning either of these polls to require a revote; both fora should be considered fully legitimate Big 8 newsgroups.  The point of the newsgroup creation process is to see whether there is sufficient interest in various topic areas across the breadth of the net to warrant asking all the news sites out there to carry the traffic.  It also serves to keep in check some of the more potential problems that can arise, such as how certain topics are classified, how clear a name is, whether a group would be directly used for widely illegal activities, or so on.  One of the main questions I had in reviewing these two votes was how well the goals of the guidelines were being served: whether we were identifying groups with widespread interest, and whether there were sufficient faults with the proposals or the way they were pursued that rerunning their votes was warranted.  The sci.astro.seti case is extremely clear cut.  The pointer that was posted at the [email protected] web site was neutral and minimal; a link provided was simply to , so a voter still had to connect to their own news server, find the CFV, read it enough to find the directions on how to vote, then vote.  Making people aware of a vote in progress doesn't get much better than this, folks, and this alone is sufficient to address the matter of whether the sci.astro.seti vote was somehow unfair.  Looking deeper into contentions about how "valid" the yes voters were, a majority of the voters, easily enough to carry the vote, have been shown to know enough about using Usenet to have made at least one post to it, and 406 of the yes voters made at least ten posts.  At least 80 had already posted to a sci.astro.* newsgroup or alt.sci.seti, and even then it was never necessary that a yes voter want a group created so he could post to it, but only to use it --- read or post.  With over 1.3 million people participating in the [email protected] project from scores of countries around the world, it is a clear that this is a subject with extremely widespread interest.  The soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated matter is a little less clear cut, but I still believe firmly on the side of validating the poll. The core issue here is that one of the proposed moderators for the group sent an email message to a fat-acceptance mailing list that contained the sentence, "If you have any interest in participating in a moderated fat-acceptance group on Usenet, or if you think such a group will be useful to promoting the idea of fat-acceptance, please vote YES."  Without the phrase delimited by commas, there would be absolutely no problem at all.  Unfortunately the phrase within the commas does solicit yes votes for a reason that is not considered legitimate in the realm of newsgroup creation --- the namespace is not to be used to advance particular viewpoints, just to categorize topics for discussion.  Nonetheless, by the votetaker's analysis, this one phrase did not have a significant impact on the vote, which was clearly going to pass anyway.  Even without his analysis, we'd all have to adopt the fairly ludicrous notion that more than 143 people on that mailing list were motivated to vote yes improperly because of that phrase, and that they want to see the group created to promote the idea of fat-acceptance but have no intention of ever using the group.  I just don't buy it.  Here's why you should not buy it either: in an analysis done by Paul Murray, the same fellow who did the analysis referred to in the SETI discussion above, 130 of the yes voters had at least one post to a related support newsgroup, and he notes that this total is a lower bound since it excludes people who post with a different address than they voted with, and those who use No-Archive to prevent archival of their messages.  That means only up to an additional 37 yes votes were needed from lurkers to overcome the 67 no votes (some of which were undoubtedly generated from the very controversy over the "promoting the idea" phrase).  Those 37 votes represent less than a third of the non-lurkers, and just 20% of the 180 yes votes that came from non-posters.  Do you really think that more than 80% of the votes that "carried the day" were from people who had no interest in actually reading the group but just wanted to prove a point about the acceptance of fat by creating a second Big 8 group on the topic?  Even when, by Mr. Murray's analysis, 201 of the yes voters, easily enough to carry the group to victory, were active enough Usenet users to have made at least 10 posts to Usenet (not necessarily to one of the fat support groups)?  Rerunning either vote serves no one well, not news administrators, not the volunteer votetakers, not the people who want to use the group, not even the people opposed to the groups.  The usual reasons for the failure of a group -- lack of interest, terrible name, awful charter, egregious abuse of the group creation rules -- do not exist for either proposal.  Let's be realistic here; rerunning the votes would only make sense if there were a legitimate question about whether they would have passed or not without the controversial advertising in question.  I thank the votetakers, Dave Cornejo and Neil Crellin, for the fine job they have done, as usual, in collecting and analyzing the ballots in these votes.  David Lawrence moderator, news.announce.newgroups