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From [email protected] Mon Sep 27 10:16:50 1993 Flags: 000000000201 Path: lear Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups From: [email protected] (Laszlo C. Balint) Subject: CALL FOR DISCUSSION : soc.culture.magyar Followup-to: news.groups Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Date: Sun,  6 Jan 91 23:46:24 PST Keywords: posted  As most possibly yesterday was the 990th anniversary of the crowning of the first Hungarian king, (Saint) Istvan  Ist, i feel it just to be time to issue a  	CALL FOR DISCUSSION : soc.culture.magyar   (I think you thought, you were celebrating the new years day. No.)  (I will be very pathetic, forgive me for it. And as the topic was  already discussed with some people, I will use the royal plural.)  We ask the net-world, and especially all the interested people to  grant a newsgroup to the culture, history and people of the country  and nation, which gave the world several personalities, changing  the shape of our whole globe and society, among these John von Neumann,  who shown the first steps to form the whole COMPUTER world, Wigner,  Szilard, Teller and many more of physics, Karman of aerodynamics  and lots of other names in all areas of science and culture.  (Pathetysm off.)  There are other reasons too, but these are the usual ones of all the soc.culture.* hierarchy.  The official parts:  1) The purpose of the group is the usual purpose of the soc.culture.*    groups.   2) The language of discussions is English with all its dialects (as mine).    For discussion in Hungarian there is a mail list in that language.  3) The proposed name of the group is soc.culture.magyar. The alternative    which is obviously soc.culture.hungarian was left away in the preliminary    discussion.  4) The group should be unmoderated.  5) The discussion period lasts until a consensus is reached (I would     like to end it before Eliot leaves, so the call for votes can be     issued before Jan. 18.)  A promise: there might be some regular postings (history, news extracts  and similars) in case of interest.  Reply to news.groups or by email to [email protected] -- Laszlo C. Balint        (a Hungarian in Finland)        [email protected]        Helsinki University of Technology, Communications Laboratory  Otakaari 5 A, SF-02150 ESPOO, Finland; Tel.: +358 0 4512352 or 4512350   From [email protected] Mon Sep 27 10:28:03 1993 Flags: 000000000201 Path: lear From: [email protected] (Laszlo C. Balint) Subject: CALL FOR VOTES: soc.culture.magyar Followup-to: news.groups Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Date: Mon, 14 Jan 91 00:38:11 PST Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,soc.culture.misc Keywords: posted  As the discussion seems to slow down and with exception of one posting everyone seemed to agree with everything, here I post a  		CALL FOR VOTES : soc.culture.magyar  (From the call for discussion:) > 1) The purpose of the group is the usual of the soc.culture.* >    groups. > 2) The language of discussions is English with all its dialects (as mine). >    For discussion in Hungarian there is a mail list in that language. > 3) The proposed name of the group is soc.culture.magyar. > 4) The group should be unmoderated.  The voting period is from the appearance of this message in  news.announce.newgroups until 10th of February. All votes dated  before or after should be considered invalid, according the guidelines. Send votes to address:  		[email protected]  The vote itself should be put in the body of the message in form:  	I vote yes for soc.culture.magyar or 	I vote no for soc.culture.magyar  or something like this. (Be clear, no if-s.)  There will be mass acknowledgement after a while (in each 10 days) in  news.groups, I try to save our machine by not sending private ack-s.  Each person can vote only once and I ask you to take it seriously.  According to the guidelines, the group will be created, if the number  of yes votes is more, than 100+number of votes and 2/3rd of all votes  is yes.  What else? Vote!  Laszlo [email protected] -- Laszlo C. Balint        (a Hungarian in Finland)        [email protected]        Helsinki University of Technology, Communications Laboratory  Otakaari 5 A, SF-02150 ESPOO, Finland; Tel.: +358 0 4512352 or 4512350   From [email protected] Mon Sep 27 10:44:06 1993 Flags: 000000000201 Path: lear Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.misc From: [email protected] (Laszlo C. Balint) Subject: VOTE RESULT: soc.culture.magyar Followup-to: news.groups Summary: passes Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Date: Mon, 11 Feb 91 11:38:01 PST Keywords: posted  The group soc.culture.magyar passes the vote, with 164 "yes" votes opposed to 36 "no"-s.  Here is the list of voters, sorted by mail address. I tried to remove double votes, votes from the same persons with multiple accounts (mostly from yes  side). Hope, not too much left.  Reclamations are to be sent in five days, starting from appearance of this  message in news.announce.newgroups. After this period a newgroup message will be sent. (It was not in English, sorry :-))  Thanks for everyone, voting.  -------------------------------------------- List of names, voting "yes" (starting with then, unpolitely): ---   1 [email protected] (Andrej Brodnik (Andy))   2 [email protected] (Rudi van Houten)   3 [email protected] (Angappa Gunasekaran)   4 [email protected] (Stanier A)   5 [email protected] (Andras Kovacs)   6 [email protected] (Krishna E. Bera)   7 [email protected] (Anni Simola)   8 [email protected] (Borowiec Andrzej)   9 [email protected] (Akos Rona-Tas)  10 [email protected] (Antti Simola) ---  11 [email protected] (Asim Mehta)  12 [email protected] (Victor S. Rethy)  13 [email protected] (Leslie A. Walko)  14 [email protected] (Only 345 more shopping days      until Christmas)  15 [email protected] (Consultant Balaji Venkateswaran)  16 BASTIDA%[email protected]  17 [email protected] (Vizy Bela)  18 BLUMSTOX%[email protected]  19 [email protected] (Bill Halchin)  20 [email protected] (David Chesler) ---  21 [email protected]  22 [email protected] (Christine Mourad)  23 [email protected] (G O)  24 [email protected] (Coni Britten)  25 [email protected] (Chris Klausmeier)  26 [email protected]  27 [email protected] (Daniel Jacobson)  28 [email protected] (David J Sherman)  29 [email protected]  30 [email protected] (Irek Defee) ---  31 [email protected]  32 [email protected] (Deepak Mulchandani)  33 [email protected] (Erdogan Dogdu)  34 [email protected] (Doug Scofield)  35 DROZDY%[email protected] (Gyozo DROZDY Phone:358(0)4566520)  36 [email protected] (Durga Mikkilineni)  37 [email protected] (Lehtim{ki Erkki)  38 [email protected] (Ed Naratil)  39 [email protected]  40 [email protected] (Elie I. Mourad) ---  41 [email protected] (Emery Berger)  42 [email protected] (erik winfree)  43 [email protected] (Frank A. Nemec, Jr. W6NJR)  44 FEKETE%[email protected]  45 ferenc%[email protected]  46 [email protected]  47 [email protected] (Futo Endre)  48 [email protected] (Liszkay Laszlo)  49 [email protected] (ladislav gaspar)  50 [email protected] (Gabor Kiss) ---  51 [email protected] (Alessandro Giua)  52 [email protected] (Greg Kuperberg)  53 [email protected] (Stevan Harnad)  54 [email protected] (Zsolt Hatsagi)  55 [email protected] (Peter H. Hellmonds)  56 [email protected] (Miki HERMANN)  57 [email protected]  58 HIDAS%[email protected] (Pal Hidas)  59 hollosi%[email protected] (Joseph Hollosi)  60 [email protected] (Bernhard Kroenung) ---  61 [email protected] (John Horvath)  62 [email protected] (Ivan Derzhanski)  63 [email protected] (Werner Icking)  64 [email protected]  65 [email protected] (Mustafa Islam)  66 [email protected]  67 [email protected] (Jack Campin)  68 [email protected] (James E. P. Saari)  69 [email protected] (jeff daiell)  70 [email protected] (Jim Michael) ---  71 [email protected]  72 JSKIMMEL%[email protected]  73 [email protected] (Jeno Torocsik)  74 [email protected] (Jarmo Tapani Rouhiainen)  75 [email protected] (Ladislaw-Istvan KADAR)  76 [email protected]  77 [email protected]  78 [email protected] (Frank Kiss)  79 [email protected] (Martha Kosa)  80 [email protected] (La'szlo' Lada'nyi) ---  81 [email protected] (Jacques LAURENT)  82 [email protected] (Leandro Navarro)  83 [email protected] (Zoltan Levay)  84 [email protected] (Laura Hayes Burchard)  85 [email protected] (Krishna Linga)  86 [email protected] (Janos Logo)  87 [email protected] (Courtney Long)  88 [email protected] (Ari-Jussi Heikkinen)  89 mad-2%[email protected]  90 [email protected] (Frederic Maffray) ---  91 [email protected] (Solanti Maija)  92 [email protected]  93 [email protected] (Geza Mark)  94 [email protected] (Jure Marn/)  95 [email protected] (Mary Fruhstuck)  96 [email protected] (John Opalko)  97 [email protected] (Marek J. Druzdzel)  98 [email protected]  99 [email protected] 100 [email protected] (Rick Morneau) --- 101 [email protected] (Tom Molnar) 102 [email protected] (Chris Murphy -- ) 103 [email protected] 104 [email protected] 105 [email protected] (Olavi Rasanen) 106 [email protected] (Ed Orosz) 107 [email protected] 108 [email protected] 109 [email protected] (Paul Michael Gelencser) 110 [email protected] (Paul Orban) --- 111 [email protected] 112 [email protected] (Peter Feldmann) 113 [email protected] (Peter McCorquodale) 114 [email protected] (peter mueller) 115 [email protected] (Jerzy Pawlowski) 116 [email protected] (Piet Beertema) 117 [email protected] (Peter Voros) 118 [email protected] 119 QMKELL%[email protected] (Kelle Peter) 120 [email protected] (Robert Craig Harman) --- 121 [email protected] (CDR Peter Kent) 122 [email protected] (George Regnery) 123 [email protected] (Magnus Rimvall) 124 ROBOZ%[email protected] 125 [email protected] (Jason D. Maloney) 126 [email protected] (Rudolf Kuenzli) 127 [email protected] (Camille Kayruzian) 128 SCHEUER%[email protected] 129 [email protected] (Nick Szabo) 130 [email protected] (David R Cote) --- 131 [email protected] (Ilya Shmulevich) 132 SIEGFRIED_R%[email protected] 133 [email protected] (Jacques Schuurman) 134 [email protected] (Stefek Zaba) 135 [email protected] 136 SORGER%[email protected] (Christoph Sorger) 137 [email protected] (SPOOLER MAC) 138 [email protected] (Stefan) 139 [email protected] (Ayyagari V. Subramanyam) 140 [email protected] (Tamas Keresztes) --- 141 TBEKE%[email protected] (Tibor Beke) 142 [email protected] (Nino Margetic) 143 [email protected] 144 [email protected] (Carl Theaker) 145 tibor%[email protected] (Tibor Stern jr.) 146 [email protected] (Tom D Gedeon) 147 [email protected] (Thomas M. Raday) 148 TS0058%[email protected] (VICKIE STARBUCK) 149 twymer%[email protected] 150 UK7D%[email protected] (Roesti) --- 151 VIGNESWA%[email protected] 152 voros%[email protected] (Katalin Voros) 153 [email protected] (ivan weisz) 154 [email protected] (Ajay Khanna) 155 [email protected] 156 [email protected] (Tuomas K. Kaikkonen) 157 [email protected] (ying wu ee) 158 [email protected] (Tony Zador) 159 [email protected] (Zalan Bodo) 160 [email protected] --- 161 [email protected] (Csaba Zoltani (IBD)) 162 [email protected] (Zsofia Ruttkay) 163 [email protected] (Zengjing Wu) 164 myself  --------------------------------------------- List of names, voting "no": --  1 [email protected] (Ann Nicholson)  2 [email protected] (Tim Becker)  3 [email protected] (Bob Weissman)  4 [email protected] (Bruce Lilly)  5 CCWENKER%[email protected] (Laurent Wenker)  6 [email protected] (Carl Rigney)  7 [email protected] (Charleen Bunjiovianna Stoner)  8 [email protected] (Carl S. Gutekunst)  9 [email protected] (Cliff Tuel) 10 [email protected] (David Robinson) -- 11 [email protected] (Dewey Henize) 12 [email protected] (Dennis Heffernan) 13 [email protected] (Tom Fitzgerald) 14 [email protected] (Gary Tse) 15 [email protected] (Ben Hekster) 16 [email protected] (Dan Hoey) 17 [email protected] (Ian ROWLANDS) 18 [email protected] (Randell Jesup) 19 [email protected] (Jay Maynard) 20 [email protected] (Jay W. Noh) -- 21 K279371%[email protected] (Paul Martineau) 22 [email protected] (Kim DeVaughn) 23 [email protected] (Bob Manson) 24 [email protected] (Mark Spector) 25 [email protected] (David Hayes) 26 [email protected] (Mike Palmer) 27 [email protected] (Leonard Peirce) 28 [email protected] (Peter J Dotzauer) 29 [email protected] (Raymond Chen) 30 [email protected] (Richard H. Miller) -- 31 [email protected] (Jim Roche) 32 [email protected] (Stuart L Labovitz) 33 [email protected] (Murray R Supple) 34 [email protected] (Timothy VanFosson) 35 [email protected] (Sandy Wambold) 36 [email protected] (Gregory G. Woodbury) ------------------------------------------------- Laca --  Laszlo C Balint  (a Magyar (= Hungarian) in Finland)  [email protected]  ------------------------------------------------------------------ | ....That's all folks. Flames, if you must, by mail please. They're | | easier to ignore that way.     (Tony Lezard, with(out) permission) |   From [email protected] Wed Mar  8 21:58:25 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.europe Subject: RFD: soc.culture.hungarian renamed from soc.culture.magyar Followup-To: news.groups Date: 8 Mar 1995 17:58:07 -0500 Organization: Boston College Lines: 85 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6390 news.groups:138212 soc.culture.magyar:9606 soc.culture.europe:40574                     Formal call for discussion                    ==========================  Newsgroup      : soc.culture.hungarian Status         : unmoderated Distribution   : worldwide Summary        : The Hungarian (Magyar) people & their culture. Proponent      : Zoli Fekete <[email protected]>  This is a formal request for discussion on the creation of an unmoderated newsgroup, soc.culture.hungarian  This RFD has been posted in accordance with the Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation. It is being posted to the following relevant newsgroups:  news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, soc.culture.magyar, soc.culture.europe  The RFD and CFV may be posted to related mailing lists. Discussion will take place in news.groups only (as required by the group creation guidelines). Please post follow-ups to news.groups only. The discussion period will last for 3 to 4 weeks from today.  This is the first call for discussion on the creation of the newsgroup soc.culture.hungarian. Since there has been some discontent during the preliminary discussion in the group s.c.magyar as to whether that should be renamed or a separate new group be created, I leave this option open till the second RFD.  Rationale: there is obviously great need for a newsgroup dealing with the issues outlined below in the chapter, and soc.culture.magyar has been such. The past four years saw surprisingly small audience with low traffic for that group, which suggests that many people are unaware of its existence. In the view of this proposer, it is necessary to create the newsgroup with an English name conforming to the established Usenet conventions: soc.culture.hungarian.  I think it would be preferable for this group to supersede the existing s.c.magyar rather than to have both. There is, however, some strong sentiment for keeping the established group as well, so the issue has to be worked out during this discussion. The decision to be put up for vote will be included in a finished RFD I plan to post in about ten days. During this time I continue conducting a straw poll on the renaming - please email me your unambiguous choice to be included in that tally!   Suggested charter:  The proposed newsgroup is intended to provide a general medium for those interested to express, share, and exchange their views, ideas, and feelings about Hungary and Hungarian culture. Questions concerning Hungarians living either in the country or abroad would be discussed.   Possible discussion issues include aspects of Hungary    - culture, history, philosophy, ideology, geography;    - societies, traditions, customs;    - literature, poetry, art, folklore;    - languages, books;    - science, technology;    - food, cookery;    - local events, news,    - communities abroad, problems, needs; and    - other things normally discussed in the "soc.culture" newsgroups.   The group shall be unmoderated.  Postings may be in either English or Hungarian, but posters should bear in mind, regardless of which language they post, that some readers may not be able to read/translate your postings. While most Hungarian Usenetters understand also English (maybe not as well), Hungarian writers are encouraged to use their native tongue when the topic is likely to concern Hungarians only (such as questions regarding local communities or things like ethnic cuisine).  It is recommended that authors of substantially long contributions include a short summary in the other language, if they can.  === This RFD complies with Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines set in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup".  Please refer to this document if you have questions about the process.  The files can be found at ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/creating-newsgroups/. --  Zoli [email protected], finger [email protected] for the charter of s.c.h * Wallace Sayre said, "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter * form of politics, because the stakes are so low."  He didn't know * Usenet: welcome to the next level.             (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)  From [email protected] Fri Mar 17 23:06:30 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.europe,alt.politics.europe.misc,alt.politics.ec Subject: 2nd RFD: soc.culture.hungarian renamed from soc.culture.magyar Followup-To: news.groups Date: 17 Mar 1995 22:48:40 -0500 Organization: Boston College Lines: 126 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6448 news.groups:139930 soc.culture.magyar:9857 soc.culture.europe:40861 alt.politics.europe.misc:1355 alt.politics.ec:4497                   Second Request for Discussion (RFD)                     =============================  The basic change here from the first RFD is that now the definitive choice is made for renaming s.c.m (as most who spoke agreed that this option is better), rather than keeping it together with the one to be created . Notice that this form is likely to go into the CFV, unless there is significant support that shows up for the alternative during the remaing RFD period! Please everyone be reminded that the proposal won't be allowed to change once the votes are called for.  Newsgroup: soc.culture.hungarian Status: unmoderated Distribution: worldwide Summary: The Hungarian (Magyar) people & their culture. Proponent: Zoli Fekete <[email protected]>  This is the second, modified formal Request for Discussion on the creation of an unmoderated newsgroup, soc.culture.hungarian   This RFD has been posted in accordance with the Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation. It is being posted to the following relevant newsgroups:  news.announce.newgroups, news.groups,  soc.culture.magyar, soc.culture.europe,  alt.politics.europe.misc,alt.politics.ec   The RFD (and the Call for Votes) may be posted to related mailing lists. Discussion will take place in news.groups only (as required by the group creation guidelines). Please post follow-ups to news.groups only. The CFV is due to appear after 3 to 4 weeks from Mar 8, the date the first RFD appeared. Do not vote now! Now is not the time for voting. Now is the time for discussion.  The basic change here from the first RFD is that now the definitive choice is made for renaming s.c.m (as most who spoke agreed that this option is better), rather than keeping it together with the one to be created . Notice that this form is likely to go into the CFV, unless there is significant support that shows up for the alternative during the remaing RFD period! Please everyone be reminded that the proposal won't be allowed to change once the votes are called for.   Rationale: currently no Usenet newsgroup bears 'hungarian' in its name. This omission makes it difficult to locate the newsgroup dealing with such interests (the bit.listserv.hungary gatewayed group is not in the main hierarchies, and suffers from very poor propagation). There is obviously a great need for a newsgroup dealing with the issues outlined below in the charter, and soc.culture.magyar has been such for the past four years. The name of that group, however, does not conform to the established Usenet conventions; it is also somewhat misleading, given that its traffic is mostly in English, contrary to what the native language name may suggest. Experience has shown relatively small audience, few authors and low traffic for that group. This suggests that many people are unaware of its existence - indeed there is anecdotal evidence for many persons, even Hungarian speakers, missing s.c.m because of its irregular name. It appears that only perhaps a few hundred users are reading the newsgroup - to be compared with the several thousand subscribers to the Hungarian email lists (which, in turn, serve still only a small portion of Hungarians worldwide).   In the view of the proponent, it is necessary to create a newsgroup with an English name: soc.culture.hungarian. The standardized name should help more patrons locate the group, furthering its goal to provide a global link for all people interested in Hungarian affairs. The creation of the new group would also enable us to write a new charter, thus to eliminate the restriction imposed in the s.c.magyar charter for English only discussion language.  I suggest that the existing s.c.m should be superseded by the new group. Not keeping the former would prevent the confusion of having two similar groups with different names. To indicate if there is any support for the alternative of creating s.c.h without the renaming of s.c.m I continue conducting a straw poll - please email me your unambiguous choice to be included in that tally!   Suggested charter:   The proposed newsgroup is intended to provide a general medium for those interested to express, share, and exchange their views, ideas, and feelings about Hungary and Hungarian culture. Questions concerning Hungarians living either in the country or abroad would be discussed.   Possible discussion issues include aspects of Hungary   - culture, history, philosophy, ideology, geography;   - societies, traditions, customs;   - literature, poetry, art, folklore;   - languages, books;   - science, technology;   - food, cooking;   - local events, news, programs, economy;   - communities abroad, problems, needs; and   - other things normally discussed in the "soc.culture" newsgroups,    in particular, politics is an appropriate topic.   The group shall be unmoderated.   The language used is either English or Hungarian, by the choice of the poster. Posters should bear in mind that using English makes their writing accessible to non-Hungarians as well as most Hungarian Usenetters, who tend to understand (or at least able to read) English. Hungarian writers are encouraged to use their native tongue when the topic is likely to be of interest to Hungarian speakers only (such as questions regarding local communities or things of domestic significance). It is recommended that authors of substantially long contributions include a short summary in the other language, if they can. Keep in mind that using Hungarian will unavoidably cut almost all non-Hungarians out of the discussion! On the other hand, this ought not to prevent having threads running in Hungarian, if there is interest for such. Many newsreaders can utilize "Summary:" or "Keywords:" field designations to aid readers in selecting articles prior to reading them, this could be used to indicate the language used in the article. Generally it is a good idea to use "Subject:" titles in the language corresponding to the rest of the post, too! Note that articles are often crossposted to other groups as well (usually ones concerning neighboring countries), in which case English should be used.  ===  This RFD complies with Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines set in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup". Please refer to this document if you have questions about the process. The files can be found at ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/creating-newsgroups/. --  Zoli [email protected], finger [email protected] for the charter of s.c.h # Wallace Sayre said, "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter # form of politics, because the stakes are so low."  He didn't know # Usenet: welcome to the next level.           (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)  From [email protected] Mon May  1 18:23:32 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Warren Lavallee) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.europe,alt.politics.europe.misc,alt.politics.ec Subject: CFV: soc.culture.hungarian Followup-To: poster Date: 1 May 1995 16:16:33 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 136 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 23 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]><[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6727 news.groups:147057 soc.culture.magyar:11665 soc.culture.europe:42893 alt.politics.europe.misc:1872 alt.politics.ec:5449                            FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)     unmoderated group soc.culture.hungarian (replaces soc.culture.magyar)  Newsgroups line: soc.culture.hungarian	The Hungarian (Magyar) people & their culture.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 May 1994.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Warren Lavallee <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact Zoli Fekete <[email protected]>.  DISTRIBUTION This CFV has been cross-posted to: 	soc.culture.magyar 	soc.culture.europe 	alt.politics.europe.misc 	alt.politics.ec and EMailed to: 	[email protected] 	[email protected] 	[email protected]  CHARTER   The newsgroup is intended to provide a general medium for those interested to express, share, and exchange their views, ideas, and feelings about Hungary and Hungarian culture. Questions concerning Hungarians living either in the country or abroad would be discussed.   Possible discussion issues include aspects of Hungary   - culture, history, philosophy, ideology, geography;   - societies, traditions, customs;   - literature, poetry, art, folklore;   - languages, books;   - science, technology;   - food, cooking;   - local events, news, programs, economy;   - communities abroad, problems, needs; and   - other things normally discussed in the "soc.culture" newsgroups,    in particular, politics is an appropriate topic.   The group shall be unmoderated.   The language used is either English or Hungarian, by the choice of the poster. Posters should bear in mind that using English makes their writing accessible to non-Hungarians as well as most Hungarian Usenetters, who tend to understand (or are, at least, able to read) English. Hungarian writers are encouraged to use their native tongue when the topic is likely to be of interest to Hungarian speakers only (such as questions regarding local communities or things of domestic significance). It is recommended that authors of substantially long contributions include a short summary in the other language, if they can. Keep in mind that using Hungarian will unavoidably cut almost all non-Hungarians out of the discussion! On the other hand, this ought not to prevent having threads running in Hungarian, if there is interest for such. Many newsreaders can utilize "Summary:" or "Keywords:" field designations to aid readers in selecting articles prior to reading them, this could be used to indicate the language used in the article. Generally it is a good idea to use "Subject:" titles in the language corresponding to the rest of the post, too! Note that articles are often crossposted to other groups as well (usually ones concerning neighboring countries), in which case English should be used.  RATIONALE   Currently no Usenet newsgroup bears 'hungarian' in its name. This omission makes it difficult to locate the newsgroup dealing with such interests (the bit.listserv.hungary gatewayed group is not in the main hierarchies, and suffers from very poor propagation). There is obviously a great need for a newsgroup dealing with the issues outlined above in the charter, and soc.culture.magyar has been such for the past four years. The name of that group, however, does not conform to the established Usenet conventions; it is also somewhat misleading, given that its traffic is mostly in English, contrary to what the native language name may suggest. Experience has shown relatively small audience, few authors and low traffic for that group. This suggests that many people are unaware of its existence - indeed there is anecdotal evidence for many persons, even Hungarian speakers, missing s.c.m because of its irregular name. It appears that only perhaps a few hundred users are reading the newsgroup - to be compared with the several thousand subscribers to the Hungarian email lists (which, in turn, serve still only a small portion of Hungarians worldwide).   In the view of the proponent, it is necessary to create a newsgroup with an English name: soc.culture.hungarian. The standardized name should help more patrons locate the group, furthering its goal to provide a global link for all people interested in Hungarian affairs. The creation of the new group would also enable us to write a new charter, thus to eliminate the restriction imposed in the s.c.magyar charter for English only discussion language.  I suggest that the existing s.c.m should be superseded by the new group. Not keeping the former would prevent the confusion of having two similar groups with different names. The option of one single group was preferred by the majority of participants in the debate prior the CFV.   HOW TO VOTE  Send MAIL to:   [email protected] Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.  Your mail message should contain *one* and only one of the following statements.  DO NOT QUOTE THIS CFV IN YOUR VOTE.       I vote YES on soc.culture.hungarian       I vote NO on soc.culture.hungarian       I vote ABSTAIN on soc.culture.hungarian       I CANCEL my vote on soc.culture.hungarian  Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve only to cancel any previous vote. Abstentions are noted in the final vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely. (This is the only difference between the two.)  Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid vote will count.  Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. If you attempt multiple votes or other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.  The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including how each person voted. Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret ballot.  There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed. The requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes, and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES.  From [email protected] Sat May 13 00:09:43 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Warren Lavallee) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.europe,alt.politics.europe.misc,alt.politics.ec Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.culture.hungarian (replaces soc.culture.magyar) Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: poster Date: 12 May 1995 16:00:26 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 136 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Expires: 23 May 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6821 news.groups:149095 soc.culture.magyar:12221 soc.culture.europe:43579 alt.politics.europe.misc:1993 alt.politics.ec:5622                            LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)     unmoderated group soc.culture.hungarian (replaces soc.culture.magyar)  Newsgroups line: soc.culture.hungarian	The Hungarian (Magyar) people & their culture.  Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 May 1994.  This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting questions only contact Warren Lavallee <[email protected]>.  For questions about the proposed group contact Zoli Fekete <[email protected]>.  DISTRIBUTION This CFV has been cross-posted to: 	soc.culture.magyar 	soc.culture.europe 	alt.politics.europe.misc 	alt.politics.ec and EMailed to: 	[email protected] 	[email protected] 	[email protected]  CHARTER   The newsgroup is intended to provide a general medium for those interested to express, share, and exchange their views, ideas, and feelings about Hungary and Hungarian culture. Questions concerning Hungarians living either in the country or abroad would be discussed.   Possible discussion issues include aspects of Hungary   - culture, history, philosophy, ideology, geography;   - societies, traditions, customs;   - literature, poetry, art, folklore;   - languages, books;   - science, technology;   - food, cooking;   - local events, news, programs, economy;   - communities abroad, problems, needs; and   - other things normally discussed in the "soc.culture" newsgroups,    in particular, politics is an appropriate topic.   The group shall be unmoderated.   The language used is either English or Hungarian, by the choice of the poster. Posters should bear in mind that using English makes their writing accessible to non-Hungarians as well as most Hungarian Usenetters, who tend to understand (or are, at least, able to read) English. Hungarian writers are encouraged to use their native tongue when the topic is likely to be of interest to Hungarian speakers only (such as questions regarding local communities or things of domestic significance). It is recommended that authors of substantially long contributions include a short summary in the other language, if they can. Keep in mind that using Hungarian will unavoidably cut almost all non-Hungarians out of the discussion! On the other hand, this ought not to prevent having threads running in Hungarian, if there is interest for such. Many newsreaders can utilize "Summary:" or "Keywords:" field designations to aid readers in selecting articles prior to reading them, this could be used to indicate the language used in the article. Generally it is a good idea to use "Subject:" titles in the language corresponding to the rest of the post, too! Note that articles are often crossposted to other groups as well (usually ones concerning neighboring countries), in which case English should be used.  RATIONALE   Currently no Usenet newsgroup bears 'hungarian' in its name. This omission makes it difficult to locate the newsgroup dealing with such interests (the bit.listserv.hungary gatewayed group is not in the main hierarchies, and suffers from very poor propagation). There is obviously a great need for a newsgroup dealing with the issues outlined above in the charter, and soc.culture.magyar has been such for the past four years. The name of that group, however, does not conform to the established Usenet conventions; it is also somewhat misleading, given that its traffic is mostly in English, contrary to what the native language name may suggest. Experience has shown relatively small audience, few authors and low traffic for that group. This suggests that many people are unaware of its existence - indeed there is anecdotal evidence for many persons, even Hungarian speakers, missing s.c.m because of its irregular name. It appears that only perhaps a few hundred users are reading the newsgroup - to be compared with the several thousand subscribers to the Hungarian email lists (which, in turn, serve still only a small portion of Hungarians worldwide).   In the view of the proponent, it is necessary to create a newsgroup with an English name: soc.culture.hungarian. The standardized name should help more patrons locate the group, furthering its goal to provide a global link for all people interested in Hungarian affairs. The creation of the new group would also enable us to write a new charter, thus to eliminate the restriction imposed in the s.c.magyar charter for English only discussion language.  I suggest that the existing s.c.m should be superseded by the new group. Not keeping the former would prevent the confusion of having two similar groups with different names. The option of one single group was preferred by the majority of participants in the debate prior the CFV.   HOW TO VOTE  Send MAIL to:   [email protected] Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.  Your mail message should contain *one* and only one of the following statements.  DO NOT QUOTE THIS CFV IN YOUR VOTE.       I vote YES on soc.culture.hungarian (replaces soc.culture.magyar)       I vote NO on soc.culture.hungarian (replaces soc.culture.magyar)       I vote ABSTAIN on soc.culture.hungarian (replaces soc.culture.magyar)       I CANCEL my vote on soc.culture.hungarian  Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve only to cancel any previous vote. Abstentions are noted in the final vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely. (This is the only difference between the two.)  Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.  If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid vote will count.  Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. If you attempt multiple votes or other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.  The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including how each person voted. Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret ballot.  There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed. The requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes, and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES.  From [email protected] Thu May 25 18:48:31 1995 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: [email protected] (Warren Lavallee) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.europe,alt.politics.europe.misc,alt.politics.ec Subject: RESULT: soc.culture.hungarian fails 157:91 Supersedes: <[email protected]> Followup-To: news.groups Date: 23 May 1995 16:27:53 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 340 Sender: [email protected] Approved: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: gs2.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6907 news.groups:150973 soc.culture.magyar:12654 soc.culture.europe:44123 alt.politics.europe.misc:2129 alt.politics.ec:5930                                  RESULT          unmoderated group soc.culture.hungarian fails 157:91  There were 157 YES votes and 91 NO votes, for a total of 248 valid votes. There were 6 abstains and 4 invalid ballots.  For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.  There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the group may not be voted on again for six months.  Newsgroups line: soc.culture.hungarian	The Hungarian (Magyar) people & their culture.  This vote was being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions only contact Warren Lavallee <[email protected]>. For questions about the proposed group contact Zoli Fekete <[email protected]>.  CHARTER   The newsgroup is intended to provide a general medium for those interested to express, share, and exchange their views, ideas, and feelings about Hungary and Hungarian culture. Questions concerning Hungarians living either in the country or abroad would be discussed.   Possible discussion issues include aspects of Hungary   - culture, history, philosophy, ideology, geography;   - societies, traditions, customs;   - literature, poetry, art, folklore;   - languages, books;   - science, technology;   - food, cooking;   - local events, news, programs, economy;   - communities abroad, problems, needs; and   - other things normally discussed in the "soc.culture" newsgroups,    in particular, politics is an appropriate topic.   The group shall be unmoderated.   The language used is either English or Hungarian, by the choice of the poster. Posters should bear in mind that using English makes their writing accessible to non-Hungarians as well as most Hungarian Usenetters, who tend to understand (or are, at least, able to read) English. Hungarian writers are encouraged to use their native tongue when the topic is likely to be of interest to Hungarian speakers only (such as questions regarding local communities or things of domestic significance). It is recommended that authors of substantially long contributions include a short summary in the other language, if they can. Keep in mind that using Hungarian will unavoidably cut almost all non-Hungarians out of the discussion! On the other hand, this ought not to prevent having threads running in Hungarian, if there is interest for such. Many newsreaders can utilize "Summary:" or "Keywords:" field designations to aid readers in selecting articles prior to reading them, this could be used to indicate the language used in the article. Generally it is a good idea to use "Subject:" titles in the language corresponding to the rest of the post, too! Note that articles are often crossposted to other groups as well (usually ones concerning neighboring countries), in which case English should be used.  [This collection of addresses is (C)1995 by Consultix Computer Services. Permission is strictly NOT given to use this list or any part thereof to make a mailing list, or for mass-mailings.  Any other use is fine.] soc.culture.hungarian (replaces soc.culture.magyar) Final Vote Ack  Voted Yes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                       Baranyi Lajos [email protected]                                          Tamas Lassu [email protected]                                   Andras Aszodi [email protected]                                              Arpad B. Palotas [email protected]                                            MR A CHARRY [email protected]                                                   Kovacs, Adam [email protected]                                                        Alan Miller [email protected]                                           Akos Seress [email protected]                                 Andrei Dan Popovici [email protected]                               Anton Berishaj [email protected] [email protected]                                 Stephanie da Silva [email protected] [email protected]                                           Ed Bailey [email protected]                                                     msb [email protected]                                                    bayerle [email protected] [email protected]                                                 B.J. Herbison [email protected]                                            Boglarka Lazar [email protected]                                              Louis Elteto [email protected]                                 Karoly BOKOR [email protected]                                                Rick Bruner [email protected]                                                 Bubbamike [email protected]                             Christopher B. Stone [email protected]                                                 Tom Chesser [email protected] [email protected]                                             Dan Rothschild [email protected]                                         Amos Danube [email protected] [email protected]                                                     David #6 [email protected]                                                      ave Del Torto [email protected]                                         Claude DETIENNE [email protected]                                               Domolki Balint [email protected]                                                Agnes Dosa [email protected]                                                   Doug Merritt [email protected]                                        Evelyn Farkas [email protected] [email protected]                                              Imre Keri [email protected]                                           Attila Rozsa [email protected]                                             Eva Zsigri [email protected] [email protected]                                                Peter Falus [email protected] [email protected]                    Zoli Fekete # vote for soc.culture.hungarian! [email protected] [email protected]                                 Nicholas V. Findler [email protected] [email protected]                                                  Francis A Uy [email protected]                                                     G.L. [email protected]                                             Gabor Paller [email protected]                                              Gabor Szabo [email protected]                                                   Gabor Fencsik [email protected]                                              Gabor Morocz [email protected]                                                      Peter Gacs [email protected]                    Zoltan Gagyi-Palffy [email protected] [email protected]                                       GEORGE OLAH [email protected]                                   Guszti Bartfai [email protected] [email protected]                                      Horvath Szabolcs [email protected] [email protected]                                    Lorenz Florian Ernst [email protected]                                         Robert Craig Harman [email protected]                                                 Pal Hidas [email protected]                                Surat Intasang [email protected]                                               cc047 [email protected]                             James Alexander Chokey [email protected]                                                       Joe Keane [email protected]                                              Jim Moody [email protected]                                    Jay Maynard [email protected]                                          Juha Olli Nissinen [email protected]                                                           Jonboy [email protected]                                     Cathleen A Josaitis [email protected]                                                Jan Pieter Kunst [email protected]                                   Judith R. Woodruff [email protected] [email protected]                                               Gabor J.Toth [email protected]                            Karl Brodowsky [email protected]                                          Sandor Kiss [email protected]                                           Pal Koncsik [email protected]                                           Andras Kornai [email protected]                                             Kornelia Krajnyak [email protected]                                               Imre Olajos [email protected]                                       Teodor A. Lungu [email protected]                                 Lutz Donnerhacke [email protected]                                         Krisztian Flautner [email protected]                                               PATRICK YIP [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]                                                Mark Kainz [email protected]                                 David Maurice [email protected]                                                  Marek Sieranski [email protected]                      Zoltan Nagy, Argonne National Laboratory [email protected] [email protected]                            [email protected] [email protected]                                          Nick Ingegneri [email protected]                                              Nicole Molnar [email protected]                                                      Noah Zamdmer [email protected] [email protected]                                               Suphi OZGUR [email protected]                                                  Gabor Papp [email protected]                                                     paul [email protected]                                         Paul Gelencser [email protected]                                               Peter Varga [email protected]                                            Philip Decker [email protected]                                            Per Westerlund [email protected]                                          Peter Campbell [email protected]                                             Peter Foldiak [email protected]                                      Gorog, Peter [email protected] [email protected]                                         Agnes Gulyas [email protected] [email protected]                                              Rebecca Drayer [email protected]                                            Roland Siebelink [email protected]                                                  Ruth M. Sylte [email protected]                                      Roboz Andras  24-76 [email protected]                                   Arnd Roth [email protected] [email protected]                                       Jeffrey Rufinus [email protected]                                                F. Szilagyi [email protected]                                       Steven C. Scheer [email protected]                                               Sean Matthews [email protected] [email protected]                                        Stephen Joseph Smith [email protected]                                                Soos Zoltan [email protected]                                                  STEVEN SIMON [email protected]                                            Steersy [email protected]                                                 strick at Jihad [email protected] [email protected]                                       Gyula Szokoly [email protected]                                        Szuecs Attila [email protected]                                                 Gabriel Iser [email protected] [email protected]                                         Tamas Kovacs [email protected]                                    Laszlo Juhasz [email protected]                                                  Tibor Beke [email protected]                                           John R. Tegtmeier [email protected]_system.galaxy.X [email protected]                                                      James Kiley [email protected]                                                      tamas [email protected]                                     Thomas D. Griffin [email protected]                                        Tim Pierce [email protected]                                             Tamas Simon [email protected]                                  A.AL-BANNA [email protected] [email protected]                                                 Vidos Tibor [email protected]                                                    F. Viktor [email protected] [email protected]                                    Katalin Voros [email protected]                                     Norb the Hungarian [email protected]                                           Ivan Weisz [email protected] [email protected]                                        Zoltan MENYHART [email protected]                                                  Zalka Erno [email protected]                                                    adam kepecs [email protected]                                        Zoltan Ligeti [email protected]                            Zsolt Habony - Software Developer  Voted No ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                        Judy Bressler [email protected]                                  Leslie Sugar [email protected]                              Andrej Brodnik (Andy) [email protected]                                    Barnabas Bozoki [email protected]                                             Monika Braxatoris [email protected]                                                   AND Books [email protected]                                             Vincent Archer [email protected]                                       Molnar Arpad 19-64 [email protected]                                         Tamas Hamory [email protected]                                                   Balaji [email protected]                                          Karoly Banicz [email protected]                                                      Barna Bozoki [email protected]                                                    SAGHY [email protected]                                     Karoly Borszeky [email protected]                               Bernhard Seebass [email protected]                                                 The Kurgan [email protected]                                     Csaba Meszaros [email protected] [email protected]                                                 David W. Crawford [email protected]                                             Racz Zoltan [email protected]                                             The Distributors [email protected] [email protected]                                            Elemental Systems [email protected]                              Anndra Dubh bhon an Ear [email protected]                                            Emma Pease [email protected]                                              The Highlander [email protected]                                                   Keith Lee [email protected]                                                  Gary Fadling [email protected]                                         George Lazar [email protected]                                     Gotthard Saghi-Szabo [email protected]                                Helmut Geyer [email protected]                                            Barett McGavock [email protected]                                      Ivan Radivojevic [email protected] [email protected]                                          KECSKES ANDRAS [email protected]                                              Kim DeVaughn [email protected]                                             Melvin Klassen [email protected]                                      Tamas Kocsis [email protected]                                         Rudolph Koranyi [email protected]                                            Arpad F. Kovacs [email protected]                                        Laura Anne Slaughter [email protected]                                                             SJM [email protected]                                        Massimo Marchi [email protected]                                      Marc Bonnaud [email protected]                                       Elizabeth McKinney [email protected]                                            Gabor Megyesi [email protected]                                        Andras Mehes [email protected]                                          mary ellen slaughter [email protected]                                                     M.J.Ford [email protected]                                          M Mike Taksar KC6ZPS [email protected]                                                      Nandor Nodnak [email protected]                           Norbert Horvat [email protected]                                                   Tibor Odor [email protected]                                                      Orc [email protected]                                            Manish L. Patel [email protected]                                           Patrick J. LoPresti [email protected]                                         Peter Morley Jones [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]                                                Pete Bastien [email protected]                                                Pal Redly [email protected]                                               Ryan Waldron [email protected]                                             Richard H. Miller [email protected]                        Mark RISON - Esperanto parolata [email protected] [email protected]                                                 Roger MacNicol [email protected]                                            Robert Rodgers [email protected]                         William Russell-smith [email protected]                                                Ninja [email protected] [email protected]                                            Balazs Sallay [email protected]                                           Sanjay Srivastava [email protected]                                             Sax Therapy [email protected]                                 Sandor Lengyel x5786 [email protected]                                         Smarasderagd [email protected]                                         Bradley R. Bebee [email protected]                                                    sszabo [email protected]                                                  Dwight Brown [email protected] [email protected]                         Erik Williams - Imonics Development [email protected]                                         Steve Walsh [email protected]                                      Janos Szamosfalvi [email protected]                                                 Tamas Gaal [email protected]                                            Thomas G. McWilliams [email protected]                                                  Gabor TIMAR [email protected]                                         Tony Anderson [email protected]                                  vincent raymond [email protected]                                               Bill Hay WP#123#BCS.BCS2S#c#TMOLNAR#125#@imf.org [email protected]                                        Zsolt Bodnar [email protected]                                       Zoltan Kocsi  Abstained ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]                                                   Adrian Shaw [email protected]                              Kenneth P Crouch [email protected]                                       Taneli Huuskonen [email protected]                                                  M. Otto [email protected] [email protected]                           T.L. (Terry) Branscombe   Votes in error ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [email protected]    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                             Attila  Peperi    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                      Jennifer Marie Wood    ! No vote statement in message [email protected]                                          Timothy Slater    ! No vote statement in message  
 
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