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Pakistan ( soc.culture.pakistan )
 
From [email protected] Mon Oct 23 15:56:04 1995
Path: uunet!in2.uu.net!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Asim Mughal)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan,bit.listserv.pns-l
Subject: RFD: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 23 Oct 1995 19:48:58 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 330
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7745 news.groups:171154 soc.culture.pakistan:113524 bit.listserv.pns-l:202

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
             moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
             unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.info
          unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.linguistics
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.overseas
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
            unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for reorganizing
soc.culture.pakistan. It creates soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy. This
is not call for votes. Please don't send votes at this time.

NEWSGROUP LINES:

soc.culture.pakistan.education 	        Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history 	        History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.info 	        Info & events related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.linguistics        Pakistani languages & literature.
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated	        Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.overseas	        Overseas Pakistanis.
soc.culture.pakistan.politics 	        Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion           Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports             Sports in Pakistan.


RATIONALE: all groups

The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.

The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily.  It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup.  Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon specific topics
of discussion.

The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subsgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.  This provides
medium to express and share ideas, in addition learn from others
experiences & knowledge.

The highlights of this proposal are as follows, please note the
built-in flexibility in this Request for Discussion (RFD) before a
Call for Votes (CFV) is issued.

1. The  current  unmoderated  newsgroup   soc.culture.pakistan   remains
   untouched.
2. New newsgroups under soc.culture.pakistan.* hierarchy are created.
3. The proposal is open ended. That  is, further newsgroups may be added
   and/or current ones deleted before the Call for Votes (CFV).
4. Each proposed newsgroup will be voted on individual basis.

5. Voting will be conducted by Usenet Volunteer Vote-Takers (UVV) Group.

MODERATION POLICIES:

The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators.  The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.

The moderation is solely for 1.  keeping the discussion relevant to
the topics 2.  Keeping personal comments out.  No test, commercial or
anonymous postings will be accepted.  It is further assumed the
postings are legible & in standard usenet format (80 characters in
length, less than 50% quoted material etc).

The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.

Additional moderators may be added by unanimous vote of active
moderators.

Facilitators:

Advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising moderators and
active in discussing moderation issues.  Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education

A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Pakistan is a fast developing nation.  Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically upto the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Moderator: Moin Ansari
Moderator: Fazia Begum
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani
Moderator: Ihsan Aslam
Moderator: [Commitment has not been received]
Moderator: The person responsible for technical aspects
                i.e. Maintaining submission addresses etc

Currently moderators are reachable at: [email protected]
Submission Address: In the process of being setup

END MODERATOR INFO.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history

A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history

The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till
present. Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious
& in-depth discussions.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history

Moderator: Moin Ansari
Moderator: Fazia Begum
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani
Moderator: Ihsan Aslam
Moderator: [Commitment has not been received]
Moderator: The person responsible for technical aspects
                i.e. Maintaining submission addresses etc

Currently moderators are reachable at: [email protected]
Submission Address: In the process of being setup

END MODERATOR INFO.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.info

A forum for posting info on Pakistan & announcement of cultural events
related to Pakistan.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.info

This newsgroup will be a vital resources for info on Pakistan,
National holidays, Events organized by Pakistani communities
world-wide will be posted here. This in essence, will be the focal
point for everyone, including non-Pakistanis interested in knowing
when and where events related to Pakistan are taking place.

END CHARTER.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.linguistics

For discussions on Pakistani languages, including, Urdu, Sindhi,
Baluchi, Punjabi, Pashto, Syraiki. Also for sharing & coordinating
work on text editors for Pakistani languages.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.linguistics

Pakistan is a multi-ethnic within itself.  Each province has its own
culture, heritage & languages.  National language Urdu is spoken &
understood by most Pakistanis and is the language of
communication. This newsgroup to discuss prose, poetry + ghazals. Also
to include discussion on works of poets, writers & history for all the
languages, including but not limited to: Urdu, Sindhi, Punjabi,
Pashto, Baluchi & Syraiki.  Those who wish to work on text editors &
dictionaries for Pakistani languages are welcome to coordinate their
efforts in this newsgroup.

END CHARTER.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome.  The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan.  This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Moderator: Moin Ansari
Moderator: Fazia Begum
Moderator: Sohail Qureshi
Moderator: Mariam Ispahani
Moderator: Ihsan Aslam
Moderator: [Commitment has not been received]
Moderator: The person responsible for technical aspects
                i.e. Maintaining submission addresses etc

Currently moderators are reachable at: [email protected]
Submission Address: In the process of being setup

END MODERATOR INFO.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.overseas

This will be a forum for  discussing  issues  related only to Pakistanis
living abroad. This will also  serve  as a forum to distribute important
which is of concern overseas Pakistanis.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.overseas

This newsgroup is for discussion & sharing of information among
Pakistanis living aboard.  The Goverment of Pakistan has a special
committee to provide info & help to overseas Pakistanis. The info and
events specific to overseas Pakistan will be posted and issues related
to them discussed in this newsgroup.

END CHARTER.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary.  The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor.  The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively.  This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Vivid discussions  on  religious  beliefs,  the  implementation  Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths.  Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g.  Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Pakistan hold world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed.  Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This RFD has been prepared in accordance with the requirements
contained in USENET guidelines for creation of new
newsgroups. Discussion of RFD will continue for at least 22 days from
the date it appears on news.groups and news.announce.newgroups.  The
discussion will take place on news.groups, which is a group dedicated
to the discussion of newgroups, and anyone is encouraged to
participate. A second RFD will be posted if needed. At the end of
discussion period, the CFV will be issued and the vote conducted by a
neutral third party, the Usenet Volunteer Votetakes (UVV).

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD will be cross posted to:

news.announce.newsgroups, news.groups, soc.culture.pakistan,
bit.listserv.pns-l

Please direct all discussion to  news.groups.  Any  questions about this
proposal may be sent to: [email protected]

CREDITS:

This reorganization was discussed by Pakistan Networking Committee
([email protected]). The following is a result of the discussions
held in 1994 & 1995.

Formatting done by using Nebula software with permission from Pakistan
News Service (PNS).

From [email protected] Mon Nov 20 20:06:44 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Asim Mughal)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RFD: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 21 Nov 1995 01:06:25 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 478
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7903 news.groups:175120 soc.culture.pakistan:118546

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
             moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
            unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for reorganizing
soc.culture.pakistan. It creates soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy. This
is not call for votes. Please don't send votes at this time.

NEWSGROUP LINES:
soc.culture.pakistan.education	Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history	History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated	Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics	Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion	Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports	Sports in Pakistan.

RATIONALE: all groups

The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.

The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily.  It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup.  Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon specific topics
of discussion.

In addition to the current traffic of over 200+ messages per day. In the
next few months, more usenet readers are coming on-line from Pakistan,
estimated 100,000+.

The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers. All of them arrived
at the conclusion to split the newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan.

The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subsgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.  This provides
medium to express and share ideas, in addition learn from others
experiences & knowledge.


The highlights of this proposal are as follows, please note the
built-in flexibility in this Request for Discussion (RFD) before a
Call for Votes (CFV) is issued.


HIGHLIGHTS:     - soc.culture.pakistan          NO CHANGE

                - Add 3 moderated newsgroups:

                        soc.culture.pakistan.education
                        soc.culture.pakistan.history
                        soc.culture.paksitan.moderated


                - Add 3 unmoderated newsgroups:

                        soc.culture.pakistan.politics
                        soc.culture.pakistan.religion
                        soc.culture.pakistan.sports

                - Each proposed newsgroup is voted upon individually.

The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subsgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.

VOTING: To be held by Usenet Volunteer Vote-takers (UVV).


MODERATION POLICIES: For all three moderated newsgroups:

        Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
                soc.culture.pakistan.history
                soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators.  The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.

The moderation will not be censorship, it is solely for:

		1.  keeping the discussion relevant to the topics
		2.  Keeping personal comments out.
		3.  keeping flame/flamebaits out
		4.  keeping discussion civilized.

Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for
postings, that is,

		i)   No test messages
		ii)  No commercial messages
		iii) No anonymous postings
		iv)  Postings to be legible
		v)   Postings to be in proper format: (not more than
                     80 characters per line)
		vi)  Less than 50% quote text.


The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.  Additional moderators may be added by
unanimous vote of active moderators.

Changes in moderation team & calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.

FACILITATORS: For all three moderated newsgroups:

        Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
                soc.culture.pakistan.history
                soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Facilitators are advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising
moderators and active in discussing moderation issues.  Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.


TECHNICAL MODERATOR: For proposed moderated newsgroups. Solely responsible
for technical aspects, including maintaining submission addresses, updating
moderators' lists, posting announcements on technical issues. Does not
review/post regular incoming articles.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education

A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.

There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML & PNS-L. EML alone has 100 letters per week.  The audience
& participation will be enhanced by leaps & bounds with a newsgroup on
this subject. The moderation is simply intended for keeping the discussion
relevant. Most of those participating are educators & professors or
professionals. The subject & its implications, implementations & interpretations
are vast enough to justify a separate noise free newsgroup all by itself.
The members on the mailing lists have said they would participate in this
newsgroup.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Pakistan is a fast developing nation.  Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically upto the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.

Moderation Policy:

The moderation will not be censorship, it is solely for:

		1.  keeping the discussion relevant to the topics
		2.  Keeping personal comments out.
		3.  keeping flame/flamebaits out
		4.  keeping discussion civilized.

Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for
postings, that is,

		i)   No test messages
		ii)  No commercial messages
		iii) No anonymous postings
		iv)  Postings to be legible
		v)   Postings to be in proper format: (not more than
                     80 characters per line)
		vi)  Less than 50% quote text.


The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.  Additional moderators may be added by
unanimous vote of active moderators.

Changes in moderation team & calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: [email protected]       (Ahmad Mumtaz)
Facilitator: [email protected]           (Tanwir Syed)
Facilitator: [email protected] (Raghib Mohammad)

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Submission Address:             [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]
Moderators & Facilitators:      [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history

A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.

This newsgroup is of academic nature. Most participants are expected to be
historians and scholars. The history of Pakistan has been one of the popular
topic on current soc.culture.pakistan. Differing interpretations, research
and analysis of events & prominent personalities which contributed in any
towards the creation of Pakistan do not have an appropriate existing
newsgroup. This newsgroup will fill in the big gap.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history

The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till present.
Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious &
in-depth discussions.

Moderation Policy:

The moderation will not be censorship, it is solely for:

		1.  keeping the discussion relevant to the topics
		2.  Keeping personal comments out.
		3.  keeping flame/flamebaits out
		4.  keeping discussion civilized.

Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for
postings, that is,

		i)   No test messages
		ii)  No commercial messages
		iii) No anonymous postings
		iv)  Postings to be legible
		v)   Postings to be in proper format: (not more than
                     80 characters per line)
		vi)  Less than 50% quote text.


The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.  Additional moderators may be added by
unanimous vote of active moderators.

Changes in moderation team & calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: [email protected]       (Ahmad Mumtaz)
Facilitator: [email protected]           (Tanwir Syed)
Facilitator: [email protected] (Raghib Mohammad)

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Submission Address:             [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]
Moderators & Facilitators:      [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings. The newsgroup
soc.culture.pakistan is plagued with too much noise & irrelevant postings.
It is impossible to initiate, engage in or carryon any meaningful
discussion. This newsgroup will bring create the long awaited alternative
for the readers of newsgroup. Currently daily average in soc.culture.pakistan
is 200+.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome.  The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan.  This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.

Moderation Policy:

The moderation will not be censorship, it is solely for:

		1.  keeping the discussion relevant to the topics
		2.  Keeping personal comments out.
		3.  keeping flame/flamebaits out
		4.  keeping discussion civilized.

Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for
postings, that is,

		i)   No test messages
		ii)  No commercial messages
		iii) No anonymous postings
		iv)  Postings to be legible
		v)   Postings to be in proper format: (not more than
                     80 characters per line)
		vi)  Less than 50% quote text.


The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.  Additional moderators may be added by
unanimous vote of active moderators.

Changes in moderation team & calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: [email protected]       (Ahmad Mumtaz)
Facilitator: [email protected]           (Tanwir Syed)
Facilitator: [email protected] (Raghib Mohammad)

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Submission Address:             [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]
Moderators & Facilitators:      [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.

Politics is a sensitive issue. Any attempt to moderate a politics newsgroup
can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a certain viewpoint.
The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no one has any basis to
think the moderators will censor them out or their favorite political party.
Not to mention, politics is one of the most debated topic on the current
soc.culture.pakistan, hence the suggestion for a separate newsgroup on
this topic.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary.  The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor.  The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively.  This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Vivid discussions  on  religious  beliefs,  the  implementation  Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.

Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religous discussions are
not just on 'Islam' if they were, then the other three *.religion.islam
newsgroups would be more than enough. The other religions in Pakistan are:
Christianity, Hindism, Sikhs, Parsi & many more. The minority religions
have their communities, school systems, reserved seats in the parliament.
Unfortunately, minorities religious issues, and especially, religious issues
of Pakistanis while coexistence & daily interactions with each others are
commonly overshadowed by the stereotypical assumptions of all Pakistanis
as Muslims. This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on usenet in general. The set of
issues & discussions are very much unique to Pakistan.  Despite the fact
that sri,ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam does take place on SCP.
The reason, the discussions are in context of Pakistani culture. The
scp.religion, is for discussion of all religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.
In addition, the newsgroup gives voice to religious minorities. The
religous discussion traffic clearly deserves a separate newsgroup of its own.


CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths.  Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g.  Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.

Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi, Boxing,
Tennis, swimming, Football etc.  The proposal is for one single newsgroup to
discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions of local talents, summer camps,
university camps, local HBL-11 vs UBL-11 matchs for instant are all directly
related to Pakistan. None of them make sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan
array of newsgroups.

Sports being one of the most favorite topic of discussion on soc.culture.pakistan
it definitely needs a separate newsgroup under the hierarchy.


CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Pakistan hold world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed.  Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This RFD has been prepared in accordance with the requirements
contained in USENET guidelines for creation of new newsgroups. Discussion
of RFD will continue for at least 22 days from the date it appears on
news.groups and news.announce.newgroups.  The discussion will take place
on news.groups, which is a group dedicated to the discussion of newgroups,
and anyone is encouraged to participate. This is the second RFD on this
reorganization. CFV will not be issued for at least next 7 days. At the
end of discussion period, the CFV will be issued and the vote conducted
by a neutral third party, the Usenet Volunteer Votetakes (UVV).

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD will be cross posted to:

		news.announce.newsgroups,
		news.groups,
		soc.culture.pakistan, &
		bit.listserv.pns-l

Please direct all discussion to  news.groups.  Any  questions about this
proposal may be sent to: [email protected]

CREDITS:

This reorganization was discussed by Pakistan Networking Committee
<[email protected]>. The following is a result of the discussions
held in 1994 & 1995.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 12 14:42:57 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan,bit.listserv.pns-l
Subject: CFV: soc.culture.pakistan-reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 12 Dec 1995 19:42:50 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 401
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 3 Jan 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7996 news.groups:178694 soc.culture.pakistan:122141 bit.listserv.pns-l:219

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
             moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
            unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Newsgroups lines:
soc.culture.pakistan.education	Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history	History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated	Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics	Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion	Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports	Sports in Pakistan.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 2 Jan 1996.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
Mentor:    Richard Miller <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: all groups

The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.

The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily.  It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup.  Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon most common
threads discussed.

In addition to the current traffic of over 200+ messages per day. In the
next few months, more Usenet readers are coming on-line from Pakistan,
estimated 100,000+.

The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers.

Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits The moderation
will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be censorship. The current
moderators volunteers

Highlights:	- soc.culture.pakistan 		NO CHANGE

		- Add 3 moderated newsgroups:

			soc.culture.pakistan.education
			soc.culture.pakistan.history
			soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

		- Add 3 unmoderated newsgroups:

			soc.culture.pakistan.politics
			soc.culture.pakistan.religion
			soc.culture.pakistan.sports

		- Each proposed newsgroup is voted upon individually.

The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education

A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.

There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML & PNS-L. EML alone has 100 letters per week.  The audience
& participation will be enhanced by leaps & bounds with a newsgroup on
this subject. The moderation is simply intended for keeping the discussion
relevant. Most of those participating are educators & professors or
professionals. The subject & its implications, implementations &
interpretations are vast enough to justify a separate noise free
newsgroup all by itself.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history

A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.

If we do not create a newsgroup on history, our history will not get the
exposure it deserves. How will scholars from Berkeley (where a new chair
on Pakistan studies has been created) be able to GLEAN information and do
research on our nation? If we do not provide a forum to COUNTER our points on
our history, How do we expect Americans and other nationalities to put up
with the noise on the regular newsgroup?

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.

Politics is a sensitive issue. Any attempt to moderate a politics newsgroup
can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a certain viewpoint.
The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no one has any basis to
think the moderators will censor them out or their favorite political party.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Vivid discussions  on  religious  beliefs,  the  implementation  Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.

Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious discussions are
not just on 'Islam' if they were, then the other three *.religion.islam
newsgroups would be more than enough. The other religions in Pakistan are:
Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi & many more. The minority religions
have their communities, school systems, reserved seats in the parliament.
Unfortunately, minorities religious issues, and especially, religious issues
of Pakistanis while coexistence & daily interactions with each others are
commonly overshadowed by the stereotypical assumptions of all Pakistanis
as Muslims. This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on Usenet in general. The set of
issues & discussions are very much unique to Pakistan.  Despite the fact
that sri,ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam does take place on SCP.
The reason, the discussions are in context of Pakistani culture. The
scp.religion, is for discussion of all religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.
In addition, the newsgroup gives voice to religious minorities.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.

Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi,
Boxing, Tennis, swimming, Football etc.  The proposal is for one single
newsgroup to discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions of local
talents, summer camps, university camps, local HBL-11 vs UBL-11 matches
for instant are all directly related to Pakistan. None of them make
sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan array of newsgroups.

CHARTER: all groups

This is a reorganization for newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan, creating
soc.culture.pakistan.* hierarchy.

Moderation policies for all three moderated newsgroups:

	Namely,	soc.culture.pakistan.education
		soc.culture.pakistan.history
		soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators.  The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.

The moderation is solely for 1.  keeping the discussion relevant to
the topics 2.  Keeping personal comments out.  No test, commercial or
anonymous postings will be accepted.  It is further assumed the
postings are legible & in standard Usenet format (80 characters in
length, less than 50% quoted material etc).

The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.

Additional moderators may be added by unanimous vote of active
moderators.

 = ADDITIONS from RFD: Moderators reserve the right to amend the charter
	after unanimously agreement. All rejection notices will be
	mailed to the sender notifying the reason with cc: copies to
	all active moderators & facilitators, no exceptions.

Facilitators for all three moderated newsgroups:

	Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
		soc.culture.pakistan.history
		soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising moderators and
active in discussing moderation issues.  Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Pakistan is a fast developing nation.  Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically up to the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Moderator:  Moin Ansari <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani <[email protected]>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Syeda Saba Bokhari <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Rafay Khan <[email protected]>

Article submission address: [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history

The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till
present. Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious
& in-depth discussions.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history

Moderator:  Moin Ansari <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani <[email protected]>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Syeda Saba Bokhari <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Rafay Khan <[email protected]>

Article submission address: [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome.  The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan.  This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Moderator:  Moin Ansari <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani <[email protected]>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Syeda Saba Bokhari <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Rafay Khan <[email protected]>

Article submission address: [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary.  The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor.  The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively.  This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths.  Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g.  Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Pakistan holds world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed.  Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.

END CHARTER.

HOW TO VOTE:

Vote counting is automated.  Follow the directions!

You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:

     [email protected]

Do not assume that just replying to this message will work.  Check the
address before you mail your vote.  Use the ballot form and indicate your
YES or NO vote on each group that you wish to vote on.  Please, mail only
the ballot form.  Delete everything above and below the -=-=-=- lines.
NAMES ARE REQUIRED.  Please indicate your name on the line provided.
That is your NAME, not your address. :-)

[ yes ] rec.foo (sample yes vote)
[ no  ] rec.bar (sample no vote)

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
soc.culture.pakistan reorg Ballot    <SCP-0001> (Don't remove this marker)

Voter name:
If you do not give a real name your vote may be rejected.

[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.education
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.history
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.politics
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.religion
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.sports
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid
votes for the total count.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One person, one vote.  Votes
must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered to be anonymous votes.

Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly.  Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote.  Addresses and votes of all voters will
be published in the final voting results post.

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the general interest level
among potential readers of a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute
this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted
to news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, please ask the votetaker.
-- 
Jan Isley <[email protected]>           |  Running UseVote 3.
votes to: <[email protected]>  |  Powered by FreeBSD

From [email protected] Thu Dec 28 00:22:49 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,bit.listserv.pns-l,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.culture.pakistan-reorganization
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 28 Dec 1995 05:22:45 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 392
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 3 Jan 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8048 news.groups:181264 bit.listserv.pns-l:225 soc.culture.pakistan:124530

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
             moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
            unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Newsgroups lines:
soc.culture.pakistan.education	Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history	History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated	Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics	Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion	Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports	Sports in Pakistan.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 2 Jan 1996.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
Mentor:    Richard Miller <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: all groups

The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.

The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily.  It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup.  Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon most common
threads discussed.

In addition to the current traffic of over 200+ messages per day. In the
next few months, more Usenet readers are coming on-line from Pakistan,
estimated 100,000+.

The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers.

Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits The moderation
will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be censorship. The current
moderators volunteers

Highlights:	- soc.culture.pakistan 		NO CHANGE

		- Add 3 moderated newsgroups:

			soc.culture.pakistan.education
			soc.culture.pakistan.history
			soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

		- Add 3 unmoderated newsgroups:

			soc.culture.pakistan.politics
			soc.culture.pakistan.religion
			soc.culture.pakistan.sports

		- Each proposed newsgroup is voted upon individually.

The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education

A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.

There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML & PNS-L. EML alone has 100 letters per week.  The audience
& participation will be enhanced by leaps & bounds with a newsgroup on
this subject. The moderation is simply intended for keeping the discussion
relevant. Most of those participating are educators & professors or
professionals. The subject & its implications, implementations &
interpretations are vast enough to justify a separate noise free
newsgroup all by itself.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history

A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.

If we do not create a newsgroup on history, our history will not get the
exposure it deserves. How will scholars from Berkeley (where a new chair
on Pakistan studies has been created) be able to GLEAN information and do
research on our nation? If we do not provide a forum to COUNTER our points on
our history, How do we expect Americans and other nationalities to put up
with the noise on the regular newsgroup?

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.

Politics is a sensitive issue. Any attempt to moderate a politics newsgroup
can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a certain viewpoint.
The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no one has any basis to
think the moderators will censor them out or their favorite political party.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Vivid discussions  on  religious  beliefs,  the  implementation  Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.

Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious discussions are
not just on 'Islam' if they were, then the other three *.religion.islam
newsgroups would be more than enough. The other religions in Pakistan are:
Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi & many more. The minority religions
have their communities, school systems, reserved seats in the parliament.
Unfortunately, minorities religious issues, and especially, religious issues
of Pakistanis while coexistence & daily interactions with each others are
commonly overshadowed by the stereotypical assumptions of all Pakistanis
as Muslims. This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on Usenet in general. The set of
issues & discussions are very much unique to Pakistan.  Despite the fact
that sri,ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam does take place on SCP.
The reason, the discussions are in context of Pakistani culture. The
scp.religion, is for discussion of all religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.
In addition, the newsgroup gives voice to religious minorities.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.

Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi,
Boxing, Tennis, swimming, Football etc.  The proposal is for one single
newsgroup to discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions of local
talents, summer camps, university camps, local HBL-11 vs UBL-11 matches
for instant are all directly related to Pakistan. None of them make
sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan array of newsgroups.

CHARTER: all groups

This is a reorganization for newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan, creating
soc.culture.pakistan.* hierarchy.

Moderation policies for all three moderated newsgroups:

	Namely,	soc.culture.pakistan.education
		soc.culture.pakistan.history
		soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators.  The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.

The moderation is solely for 1.  keeping the discussion relevant to
the topics 2.  Keeping personal comments out.  No test, commercial or
anonymous postings will be accepted.  It is further assumed the
postings are legible & in standard Usenet format (80 characters in
length, less than 50% quoted material etc).

The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.

Additional moderators may be added by unanimous vote of active
moderators.

 = ADDITIONS from RFD: Moderators reserve the right to amend the charter
	after unanimously agreement. All rejection notices will be
	mailed to the sender notifying the reason with cc: copies to
	all active moderators & facilitators, no exceptions.

Facilitators for all three moderated newsgroups:

	Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
		soc.culture.pakistan.history
		soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising moderators and
active in discussing moderation issues.  Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Pakistan is a fast developing nation.  Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically up to the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Moderator:  Moin Ansari <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani <[email protected]>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <[email protected]>

Article submission address: [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history

The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till
present. Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious
& in-depth discussions.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history

Moderator:  Moin Ansari <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani <[email protected]>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <[email protected]>

Article submission address: [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome.  The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan.  This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Moderator:  Moin Ansari <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani <[email protected]>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <[email protected]>

Article submission address: [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary.  The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor.  The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively.  This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths.  Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g.  Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Pakistan holds world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed.  Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.

END CHARTER.

HOW TO VOTE:

Vote counting is automated.  Follow the directions!

You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:

     [email protected]

Do not assume that just replying to this message will work.  Check the
address before you mail your vote.  Use the ballot form and indicate your
YES or NO vote on each group that you wish to vote on.  Please, mail only
the ballot form.  Delete everything above and below the -=-=-=- lines.
NAMES ARE REQUIRED.  Please indicate your name on the line provided.
That is your NAME, not your address. :-)

[ yes ] rec.foo (sample yes vote)
[ no  ] rec.bar (sample no vote)

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
soc.culture.pakistan reorg Ballot    <SCP-0002> (Don't remove this marker)

Voter name:
If you do not give a real name your vote may be rejected.

[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.education
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.history
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.politics
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.religion
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.sports
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid
votes for the total count.

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One person, one vote.  Votes
must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded or proxy votes are not valid.  Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI
forms are considered to be anonymous votes.

Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker
about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly.  Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote.  Addresses and votes of all voters will
be published in the final voting results post.

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the general interest level
among potential readers of a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute
this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted
to news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise
edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.
When in doubt, please ask the votetaker.

From [email protected] Thu Feb 15 23:58:45 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,bit.listserv.pns-l,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RESULT: soc.culture.pakistan-reorganization all groups pass
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 15 Feb 1996 23:58:42 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 740
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8257 news.groups:189607 bit.listserv.pns-l:233 soc.culture.pakistan:132385

                                RESULT
     moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education passes 231:57
      moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history passes 229:60
     moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated passes 230:58
    unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics passes 249:41
    unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion passes 250:40
     unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports passes 246:41

 Yes  No  | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
 231   57 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.education
 229   60 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.history
 230   58 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
 249   41 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.politics
 250   40 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.religion
 246   41 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.sports

In this votetaker's opinion, serious irregularities began before this
vote even started when the proponent demanded that the votetaker should
not be allowed to comment on the results of the vote.  Considerable
effort was spent stuffing the ballot box during this vote.  All parties
querried about this, to include system administrators of sites where
ballots were quite obviously machine generated, deny any knowledge of,
or participation in any such behavior.  Therefore, the whole voting
list is presented here for public inspection.

Newsgroups lines:
soc.culture.pakistan.education	Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history	History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated	Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics	Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion	Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports	Sports in Pakistan.

Votes closed on 23:59:59 UTC, 2 Jan 1996.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
Mentor:    Richard Miller <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: all groups

The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.

The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily.  It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic & noise. Thus rendering the newsgroup inoperable & unusable
for serious readership. This situation is also driving serious
readership away from the newsgroup.  Current proposal is to rectify
this situation by proposing to reorganize the newsgroup into to a
number of moderated & unmoderated newsgroup based upon most common
threads discussed.

In addition to the current traffic of over 200+ messages per day. In the
next few months, more Usenet readers are coming on-line from Pakistan,
estimated 100,000+.

The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers.

Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits The moderation
will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be censorship. The current
moderators volunteers

Highlights:     - soc.culture.pakistan          NO CHANGE

                - Add 3 moderated newsgroups:

                        soc.culture.pakistan.education
                        soc.culture.pakistan.history
                        soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

                - Add 3 unmoderated newsgroups:

                        soc.culture.pakistan.politics
                        soc.culture.pakistan.religion
                        soc.culture.pakistan.sports

                - Each proposed newsgroup is voted upon individually.

The proposed hierarchy is intented to provide a foundation for
subgroups under the hierarchy. The proposed subgroups will focus on
specific topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education

A place for educators, professors and professional to discuss the
education systems in Pakistan.

There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML & PNS-L. EML alone has 100 letters per week.  The audience
& participation will be enhanced by leaps & bounds with a newsgroup on
this subject. The moderation is simply intended for keeping the discussion
relevant. Most of those participating are educators & professors or
professionals. The subject & its implications, implementations &
interpretations are vast enough to justify a separate noise free
newsgroup all by itself.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history

A forum for historians and anyone else interested to discuss & study
the events which led to creation of Pakistan.

If we do not create a newsgroup on history, our history will not get the
exposure it deserves. How will scholars from Berkeley (where a new chair
on Pakistan studies has been created) be able to GLEAN information and do
research on our nation? If we do not provide a forum to COUNTER our points on
our history, How do we expect Americans and other nationalities to put up
with the noise on the regular newsgroup?

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment. Moderation is meant
to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

A specific newsgroup is needed for the heated discussions on politics,
politicians, political parties.

Politics is a sensitive issue. Any attempt to moderate a politics newsgroup
can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a certain viewpoint.
The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no one has any basis to
think the moderators will censor them out or their favorite political party.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Vivid discussions  on  religious  beliefs,  the  implementation  Islamic
system (nizam) will find its ways in this newsgroup.

Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious discussions are
not just on 'Islam' if they were, then the other three *.religion.islam
newsgroups would be more than enough. The other religions in Pakistan are:
Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi & many more. The minority religions
have their communities, school systems, reserved seats in the parliament.
Unfortunately, minorities religious issues, and especially, religious issues
of Pakistanis while coexistence & daily interactions with each others are
commonly overshadowed by the stereotypical assumptions of all Pakistanis
as Muslims. This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on Usenet in general. The set of
issues & discussions are very much unique to Pakistan.  Despite the fact
that sri,ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam does take place on SCP.
The reason, the discussions are in context of Pakistani culture. The
scp.religion, is for discussion of all religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.
In addition, the newsgroup gives voice to religious minorities.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This forum is needed for discussion of selection & performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores & rankings of Pakistani athletes.

Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi,
Boxing, Tennis, swimming, Football etc.  The proposal is for one single
newsgroup to discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions of local
talents, summer camps, university camps, local HBL-11 vs UBL-11 matches
for instant are all directly related to Pakistan. None of them make
sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan array of newsgroups.

CHARTER: all groups

This is a reorganization for newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan, creating
soc.culture.pakistan.* hierarchy.

Moderation policies for all three moderated newsgroups:

        Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
                soc.culture.pakistan.history
                soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators.  The moderators
submission address & multiple moderation tools are in the process of
being setup.

The moderation is solely for 1.  keeping the discussion relevant to
the topics 2.  Keeping personal comments out.  No test, commercial or
anonymous postings will be accepted.  It is further assumed the
postings are legible & in standard Usenet format (80 characters in
length, less than 50% quoted material etc).

The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if 1. They have no valid email address 2. Have been
inactive for over six months.

Additional moderators may be added by unanimous vote of active
moderators.

 = ADDITIONS from RFD: Moderators reserve the right to amend the charter
        after unanimously agreement. All rejection notices will be
        mailed to the sender notifying the reason with cc: copies to
        all active moderators & facilitators, no exceptions.

Facilitators for all three moderated newsgroups:

        Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
                soc.culture.pakistan.history
                soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Advisors to moderators. Readers interested in advising moderators and
active in discussing moderation issues.  Unlike moderators
Facilitators will not have posting rights. Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Pakistan is a fast developing nation.  Unfortunately, the literacy
rate is among the poorest nations. The Government allocates less than
1% of its budget for education. It is now basically up to the
Pakistanis to help the fellow citizens. A good solid efforts have
already culminated in the form of mushrooming private colleges &
universities. The lacking are the Government policies, funding, good
syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books & human resources.
This newsgroup is intended to foster discussions & to bring together
those who may be willing to help in. Moderation is needed to keep the
discussions specific to the topic & to cut out any noise from this
serious newsgroup.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Moderator:  Moin Ansari <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani <[email protected]>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <[email protected]>

Article submission address: [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history

The creation of Pakistan & its independence from British on August 14,
1947 was result of a long struggle. Many people played a vital &
pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development. The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds & thousands of people. This academic forum is meant for
discussions & info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till
present. Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious
& in-depth discussions.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history

Moderator:  Moin Ansari <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani <[email protected]>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <[email protected]>

Article submission address: [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment. All topics not covered by other newsgroups in
soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome.  The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan.  This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal
ratio.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Moderator:  Moin Ansari <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani <[email protected]>
Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
(The person responsible for technical aspects i.e. Maintaining
submission addresses etc)

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Mohammad <[email protected]>

Article submission address: [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators: [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Pakistan is a democratic country. The political system is
Parliamentary.  The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly. The head of the state is the
President. Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister &
Governor.  The number of political parties exceeds 10. There are
constant coalitions & splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively.  This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths.  Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level. Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
& laws). Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems & Laws (E.g.  Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Pakistan holds world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket. Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed.  Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions & announcements on upcoming
world & local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own. This newsgroup will serve that purpose.

END CHARTER.

soc.culture.pakistan reorg Final Voter list


                                          soc.culture.pakistan.sports --------+
                                        soc.culture.pakistan.religion -------+|
                                        soc.culture.pakistan.politics ------+||
                                       soc.culture.pakistan.moderated -----+|||
                                         soc.culture.pakistan.history ----+||||
                                       soc.culture.pakistan.education ---+|||||
                                                                         ||||||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                  ASMA QAYUM NNNYYY
[email protected]                                      Shahed Anwer Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Tanvir Sadiq NNNYNN
[email protected]                                                 Asim Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Misbah Islam YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              Shakoor Dean NNNYYY
[email protected]                             Ayaz Somjee NNNNNN
[email protected]                               Aroosh R. Elahi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Kevin Mitchell NNNNNN
[email protected]                                        Kevin Mitchell NNNNNN
[email protected]                                      Hazem Nasereddin YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Khursheed Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Imran Toorawa NNNYYY
[email protected]                                          Faisal Kharadi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Afzal Upal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Zia Abdullah YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Faisal Raja NNNYYY
[email protected]                             Zafar Ahmed NNNYYY
[email protected]                     Ahmer A. Karimuddin NNNYYY
[email protected]                                      anil k goel NNNYYY
[email protected]                                    Rizwan Ali Khan NNNYYY
[email protected]                                             Bryan Cash YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Ernst Becher YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Neil John Callan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           tina dajani YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  dalcy cabrera-rios YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Zahid Raza Naqvi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Cameron Vaughn YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Alexandre Caminha YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Ali Ghovanlou YYYYYY
[email protected]             Antonio Maria Nino Caicedo YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     ashfaq hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Asif Farhaj Gill YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Bahman Mobasser YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Bang Won Lee YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     calestous juma YYYYYY
[email protected]                          Camilo Pasquariello YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             CAMILO PON YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Carroll Caddel YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Carroll Caddel YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                Ch. Javed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Charles Baber YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         dae-won choi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Dag Bjornland YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   daniel angelini YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   daniel berthoud YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   daniel chenault YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     daniel eastham YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   daniel grossman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   daniel pierotti YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   daniel pierotti YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 daniel schneider YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       daniel silver YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     daniel spiegel YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   daniel weinberg YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Edward Bailey YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         felix damiba YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           France Caam YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             FUAD ENVER YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Giuliano Cambi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Hamza Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               hamza ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Henri Campagno YYYYYY
[email protected]                     jaime quispe callisaya YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       James Caffrey YYYYYY
[email protected]                       jane da-silva-pellaux YYYYYY
[email protected]                               jean-daniel zosso YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       JOHAN DE_BEER YYYYYY
[email protected]                             John Bandaranayake YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Khalid Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         khalid ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                    Luis Manuel Peluffo YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Mahmood Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 matteo dambrosio YYYYYY
[email protected] Mauricio Alberto Campillo Orozco YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       mazwi dandato YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Mohamed Yusoff YYYYYY
[email protected]                         Muhammad Javed Iqbal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Nisar Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Odelin Calatrava YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   sergio da-silva YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Silvano Candeo YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Sven CALLEBAUT YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Vlado Camic YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Syed Ahmed YNYYYY
[email protected]                                           Faisal Haque YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Anwer Ali Khan YYY-YY
[email protected]                                                   rafay NNNNNN
[email protected]                                             Ajay Bhatt YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                Amjad Ras NNNNNN
[email protected]                                                Asad Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Arshad Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Bilal Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Fouzia Naqvi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Jalal ZUBERI YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                Moin Ansari YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Rizwan Tahir YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              SAIMA ZUBERI YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Shirla Jormak YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Sohail Qureshi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Tahira Mossadique YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Farouk S. Khawaja YYYYYY
[email protected]                          Ahmed, Aftab YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Todd Michel McComb -N--N-
[email protected]                                               John Tran YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Dwight Brown NNNNNN
[email protected]                                    Mohamad Khalid Seth YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Sayed Fayyaz Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          ADIL HAQUE YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Rafat Pirzada YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Syed Khalid Raza YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Zulfiqar Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Amardeep Singh YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Amardeep Singh YYYYYY
assad%[email protected]                 Mir Mohammed Assadullah YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Tabassum Rahman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Azeem Rao YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        John Hampton YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           steve pham YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              J. Stick YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Terrick Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                               John R. MacWilliamson NNNNNN
[email protected]                                          Khwaja Tanzeem YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         SAKHTAR YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Salman AKHTAR YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           B.J. Herbison NNNNNN
[email protected]                                         Imran Malik YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Nick Ingegneri NNNYYY
[email protected]                             Shahzad Baqai YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Ajaz Siraj YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Trevor Tymchuk YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Peter Mentz YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Azam Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Faisal Shaheen YYNYYY
[email protected]                                  Javaid Aslam Siddiqi YYYYYY
[email protected]                            Ed Robertson YYYYYY
[email protected]                  Moinuddin Hasan Ansari YYYYYY
[email protected]                        William Powell YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Olav Nieuwejaar NNNYYN
[email protected]                                       Arifur Arain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Basit Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Jawad Akhtar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Syed W. Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Mark Kupferman YYNYYY
[email protected]                                      Thomas G. McWilliams NNNNNN
[email protected]                                             Waqar Malik YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Rizwan Zaidi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Alan F. Feldman NNNNNN
[email protected]                                    Tom Jaskiewicz NNNNNN
[email protected]                                              Imran Anwar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Nargis: Imran Inc YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Kim DeVaughn NNNNNN
[email protected]                                      Farrukh Usmani YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Irfan Zaman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Syed Umar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Tauseef Kazi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Gabriel Anwar NNNYYN
[email protected]                                           M Mike Taksar ---NN-
[email protected]                                      Mariam Ispahani YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Mubashir Cheema YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Jaffer Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                Lincoln, David              PL YYYYYY
[email protected]                Lincoln, David              PL YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Omar Hyat Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Altaf Ali Bhimji NNNYNY
[email protected]                          Kidwai, Farrukh YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              Iqrar Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                            Martin Schr"oder YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Josef Oldenburg NYNYYN
[email protected]                              Lars Eilebrecht ---Y-N
[email protected]                                      Huma Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                       Todd C. Lawson YNYNNN
[email protected]                                    AbdulRahman Alghamdi YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Naufal A. Khan NNNNNN
[email protected]                           Naufal A. Khan NNNYYY
[email protected]                                 Farhana Sheikh YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Amjad Asaf YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Aijaz Ahmed Baloch YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Ghulam M. Bhatti YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Asim Mughal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Brian Sammon --YYYY
[email protected]                                    Jia Ching Cheng YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Fernando Martins YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Amir Asif YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Arselene AYARI YYYYYY
[email protected]                              Saeed Ali Hareb YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Sohban Shahid YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Chris Stamper NNNNNN
[email protected]                                  Rohan Oberoi YYYYYY
[email protected]                      Badrinarayanan Seshadri NNYNNN
[email protected]                              Syed Qasim in ISS - ext. 4864 YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Tarim Wasim YYNYYY
[email protected]                               Andreas Magdeburg NNNNNN
[email protected]                            Joerg Florian Berger NNNNNN
[email protected]                                   Richard Scott Mayo YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Michael Sean Smith YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Julie Witten YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Amir Memon YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Mohammed Amjed YYYYYY
[email protected]                     Syed Mohammed Tariq Wasim Zaidi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Farah Aslam YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         G. Ryan NNNNNN
[email protected]                                       Saqib Q. Malik YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Farid Midhet YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Ehsan Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Rajiv Varma YNNYYY
[email protected]                                      Iraj Ali Mughal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Patrick J. LoPresti NNNNNN
[email protected]                                          Bilal A. Bhutta YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Raghib Muhammad YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Muhammad Salman Mughal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         P. Patel NNNNNN
[email protected]                                         Hasnain Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                              gulzar wani YYYYYY
[email protected]                  Syed Rehan A Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Altaf A. Wani YYYYYY
[email protected]                          Shahid karim YYYYYY
[email protected]                          Shahid Karim YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Qayyum, Mazhar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Shaukat Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Ahmad Hashem NNNNNN
[email protected]                                Chris Stone NNYNN-
[email protected]                                              Vijay Pai NNNNNN
[email protected]                                           Saboohi Husain NNNYYY
[email protected]                                      Zaki Hasan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Russ Allbery ---N--
[email protected]                           Zartash Afzal Uzmi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Pam Austin YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Pam Austin YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Richard Miller YNY---
[email protected]                    Gopal Ganapathiraju Sree Ramana NNNNNN
[email protected]                                   Smarasderagd NNNNNN
[email protected]                                       Raza Hasan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                Hoa Van YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      William R Ward YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Lance Chun NNNNNN
[email protected]                             Lance K. Chun NNNNNN
[email protected]                                           Tanveer Gani YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Farid Ahmed Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Michael W. Daniels YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Nauman A Chaudhry YNN-YY
[email protected]                                   Andrew Fabbro NNNNNN
[email protected]                              Shrisha Rao NNNNNN
[email protected]                            Azhar Basit Bhutta NNNNNN
[email protected]                                             Bapa Rao NNNNNN
[email protected]                               Mohammad Shoaib Sultan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Ananda M. Kar NNNNNN
[email protected]                                          Sameer Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Zafar A. Ansari NNNYYY
ADMOM02%[email protected]        Fayyaz Mahmood Shujauddin YYYNNN
[email protected]                                      J. Rufinus YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Bardia Madani YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Bryan Newcastle YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Aman Naimat YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Ahmad Atif Mumtaz YYYYYY
[email protected]                        Chantal Hoogervorst YYYYYY
[email protected]                          Imtiaz Ali Chaudhary YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Raheel Javed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Usman A. Mangla YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Ishrat sultan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Zia Javed YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Mohammed Mubeen N-NNYY
[email protected]                                        Khalid Lateef NNNYYY
[email protected]                                   Risto Widenius NNYNNN
[email protected]      Naeem IQBAL, [email protected] YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Sohail Zafar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Imran Mehdi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          James Frizzell. -Y-Y--
[email protected]                            Supratic Gupta NNNYYY
[email protected]                               Dr. Munawar A. Anees YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Dr. Munawar A. Anees YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Asif abbasi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Iqbal Mateen YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                    Nisar Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Nazeer A. Chaudhry YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Dan Rothschild NNNNNN
[email protected]                                          John Leslie NN-YY-
[email protected]                                     Dan Birchall NYYNYN
[email protected]                                   Richard Nielsen YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Naeem Siddiqi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     IHSAN IBN ASLAM YYYNNN
[email protected]                              Asadi Harooni Hushang YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Feroz-ud-Din YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        s.m.a.zaidi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Sinan Akoglu NNNYYY
[email protected]                                         Michiel Wijers NNNNNN
[email protected]                                         Michiel Wijers NNNNNN
[email protected]                                 Muhammed Imran Mushtaq YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Zulfiqar Bashir YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Rizwan Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Mohammad Rashid Yousuf YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Chris Larse YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Ali Azhar Kazmi YYYYYY
[email protected]                          Junaid Ahmed Zubairi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Arif bhatti YYNNYY
[email protected]                                       Shahid Saleem YYYYYY
[email protected]                            Manzoor Ashraf NNNNNN
[email protected]                                       Tahir Izhar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Ian Jackson ------
[email protected]                                Ian Jackson NNN---
[email protected]                                    Nomaan Aleem Mufti YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               F. Alavi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Jaffer H Dharamsi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Waqar Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Zafar Akbar NNNYYY
[email protected]                                    Gharib Hanif YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Tariq Hasnain YYYYYY
[email protected]                              Aamer Akbar Janjua YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Penny Wythes YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         david parsons YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Greg Woodbury YYYYYY

Invalid ballots
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                    AYAZ SOMJEE
    ! No votemark in ballot
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]                                              Tanwir SyedMohammad
    ! No votemark in ballot
[email protected]                                                Abrar
    ! No votemark in ballot
[email protected]                                                     M
    ! No votemark in ballot
[email protected]                                                Zahra Jamshed
    ! No votemark in ballot
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]                                             Syed Sayeed Ahmed
    ! No votemark in ballot
[email protected]                                        Afshad Mistri
    ! No votemark in ballot
[email protected]                                                    Shaukat Khan
    ! No votemark in ballot
[email protected]                                       Farrukh Azfar
    ! No votemark in ballot
[email protected]
    ! No votemark in ballot

From [email protected] Tue Apr  9 19:23:13 1996
Path: uunet!in1.uu.net!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (David C Lawrence)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RESULT INVALIDATED: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Date: 9 Apr 1996 19:22:59 -0400
Organization: news.announce.newgroups
Lines: 116
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8535 news.groups:200467 soc.culture.pakistan:142535

After a careful review of the votes, the result of the proposal to
reorganize soc.culture.pakistan is being declared invalid.  The CFV
will be rerun as soon as possible.

This decision has been made because there is sufficient question about
what the result of the proposal would be in the absence of the many
problem votes that were received.  The neutral votetaker has done his
best to ascertain which votes were valid and which were unacceptable,
and in doing so comes up with a result which would fail all of the
individual parts of the proposal, a couple as narrowly as only five
votes.  Since it is possible that many, if not all, of the groups
would have passed if the votes of interested users were properly cast,
invalidating the vote gives the proponents of the new groups an
immediate chance to have the groups passed properly, without the vote
fraud that tainted this poll.

I very much regret the amount of time it has taken to come to this
point in the process.  The analysis was not easy, necessitated the
cooperation of many site administrators, and was interrupted by the
independent travel of both me and the votetaker.  The results of the
revote should be handled in a much faster fashion.  (Similarly, for
those who are interested in the final decision on the
soc.culture.indian.jammu-kashmir vote which ended two weeks ago, it
should be announced late this week.)

I hope that the many, many people whom Moin Ansari has encouraged to
send mail to me and anyone associated with the group creation process
(including mentors and votetakers who had nothing to do with the
proposal) will be participating in the revote.  I checked ten at
random and not a single one of them was from someone who had sent a
vote, valid or not.  If these people join with the people who
participated in the first go around, and the people who contributed to
the fraud in this vote keep their eagerness in check, we should have a
fairly meaningful result.

Finally, it must be noted that this is not some sort of special
treatment because the proposal is about Pakistanis, as some people
have said in their mail.  I do not feel that I have to make a
continuing defense for myself against baseless charges of bigotry, but
I want it explicitly known that this decision has not been made with
any bias regarding the content or users of the proposed new groups.  I
have said, on more than one occasion, that I was fine with the
proposal passing.  I did not send any mail criticizing the substance
of the proposal, to the proponents or anyone else, and I did not vote
against it.  My interest is in seeing a fair and meaningful vote
conducted.

David Lawrence, moderator, news.announce.newgroups

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS FROM THE VOTETAKER

All votes from the itu.ch domain were invalidated.  Mail was sent to
postmaster requesting verification of the votes.  Evidence was
presented that is clear to me and other experienced mail
administrators that the bulk of the votes were probably artificially
generated.  Further, I received replies from some of my mailed vote
acknowledgments there that essentially read,

    What is an ack?
    Who are you and why are you sending me this mail?
    I don't know what you are talking about and I don't care.
    etc...

After several weeks I received a reply to my mail enquiry to ITU.  It
stated that all accounts were real and that it was not possible that
the vote mail was generated by a script.  I don't disagree with
whether the accounts are real, but with the notion that because they
are real it means that the addresses cannot have been used by other
parties to generate votes.  An inspection of the itu.ch votes
indicates beyond a reasonable doubt that many were not sent by the
individual voters.  Incidentally, this should not in any way be read
to denigrate ITU or to say that every itu.ch vote was certainly bogus.

In the ballot analysis, the invalidation of numeros votes sent by one
user using five addresses bears special mention.  Moin Ansari
<[email protected]>, one of the proposed moderators, had three ballots
invalidated.  On being presented with evidence that he was involved in
an e-mail campaign and was distributing edited ballots, he responded
like so:

   There is nothing wrong with doing so
   Even though I am not doing it, I will stop if you insist

He was doing so.  I have evidence that he continued to do so after he
both denied doing so and also agreed to cease.  Further, he voted from
multiple accounts, using a variety of voter names in what to me is
clearly an attempt to get multiple votes counted.  Mr. Ansari is
either incapable of understanding the rules for newsgroup creation or
does not feel that he is bound by them.  Therefore, none of his votes
were counted.  Even if the "address barred from voting" votes are
included, the final pass/fail resolution would not change.

The modified result, after suspect ballots are removed:

      moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education fails 120:53
        moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history fails 118:56
      moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated fails 121:52
     unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics fails 135:40
     unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion fails 135:40
       unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports fails 131:41

To Mr. Asim Mughal and other persons interested in this
reorganization, please accept my sincere apologies for any delay in
resolving this issue for which I am at fault.  In addition to the
numerous difficulties that I encountered while trying to verify the
votes, I had a very prolonged and severe battle with the flu and my
life was further interrupted by two short but otherwise unplanned
trips.

Please be assured that I have no illness or trip on my calender for
the next month. :) I have read soc.culture.pakistan from time to time
(looking for topics on Buddhism) and surly there is traffic enough to
warrant some reorganization and I will make every effort to produce
the results of the revote as soon as is possible.

Jan Isley <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Mon Apr 15 16:38:11 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: CFV: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 15 Apr 1996 20:38:06 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 407
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 7 May 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8567 news.groups:201335 soc.culture.pakistan:143734

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
             moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
            unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Newsgroups line:
soc.culture.pakistan.education	Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history	History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated	Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics	Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion	Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports	Sports in Pakistan.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 6 May 1996.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: all groups

The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.

The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily.  It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic and noise. Not only is it high-traffic, but a large part of
the traffic is heavy cross-posting of topics unrelated to Pakistan,
and ongoing personal flame-wars what belong in e-mail.  Thus rendering
the newsgroup inoperable and unusable for serious readership.  This
situation is also driving serious readership away from the newsgroup.
Current proposal is to rectify this situation by proposing to
reorganize the newsgroup into to a number of moderated and unmoderated
newsgroup based upon specific topics of discussion.  These topics of
discussion are the largest threads of discussion on the current
soc.culture.pakistan and on some Pakistani mailing-list, and that's
why these specific topics were chosen at this time.

The current traffic of 200+ messages per day will increase
dramatically as more USENET readers come on-line from Pakistan itself
in the next few months.

The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers.  They pooled their
initiatives into the current proposal to add several subgroups to the
soc.culture.pakistan hierarchy.

The proposed hierarchy is intended to provide a foundation for
sub-groups under the hierarchy.  The proposed subs-groups will focus
on specific popular topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.  This
provides medium to express and share ideas, in addition to learn from
other's experiences and knowledge.

Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits.  The
moderation will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be
censorship.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education

There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML and PNS-L.  EML alone has 100 letters per week.  The
audience and participation will be enhanced by leaps and bounds with a
newsgroup on this subject.  The moderation is simply intended for
keeping the discussion relevant.  Most of those participating are
educators and professors or professionals.  The subject and its
implications, implementations and interpretations are vast enough to
justify a separate noise free newsgroup all by itself.  The members on
the mailing lists have said they would participate in this newsgroup.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history

This newsgroup is of academic nature.  Most participants are expected
to be historians and scholars.  The history of Pakistan has been one
of the popular topic on current soc.culture.pakistan.  Differing
interpretations, research and analysis of events and prominent
personalities which contributed in any towards the creation of
Pakistan do not have an appropriate existing newsgroup.  This
newsgroup will fill in the big gap.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment.  Moderation is
meant to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.  The
newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan is plagued with too much noise and
irrelevant postings.  It is impossible to initiate, engage in or carry
on any meaningful discussion.  This newsgroup will bring create the
long awaited alternative for the readers of newsgroup.  Currently
daily average in soc.culture.pakistan is 200+.
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated will be the moderated form of the
current soc.culture.pakistan.  soc.culture.pakistan will not be
affected and will continue to provide the unmoderated forum for those
oppose moderation.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Politics is a sensitive issue.  Any attempt to moderate a politics
newsgroup can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a
certain viewpoint.  The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no
one has any basis to think the moderators will censor them out or
their favorite political party.  Not to mention, politics is one of
the most debated topic on the current soc.culture.pakistan, hence the
suggestion for a separate newsgroup on this topic.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious
discussions are not just on 'Islam'.  If they were, then the three
*.religion.islam newsgroups would be more than enough.  The other
religions in Pakistan are: Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi and
many more.  The minority religions have their communities, school
systems, reserved seats in the parliament.  Unfortunately, minorities
religious issues, and especially, religious issues of Pakistanis while
coexistence and daily interactions with each others are commonly
overshadowed by the stereotypical assump- tions of all Pakistanis as
Muslims.  This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on Usenet in general.  The
set of issues and discussions are very much unique to Pakistan.
Despite the fact that sri, ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam
does take place on SCP.  The reason, the discussions are in context of
Pakistani culture.  The scp.religion, is for discussion of all
religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.  In addition, the newsgroup
gives voice to religious minorities.  The religious discussion traffic
clearly deserves a separate newsgroup of its own.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This forum is needed for discussion of selection and performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores and rankings of Pakistani athletes.

Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi,
Boxing, Tennis, swimming, Football etc.  The proposal is for one
single newsgroup to discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions
of local talents, summer camps, university camps, local HBL-11 vs
UBL-11 matches for instant are all directly related to Pakistan.  None
of them make sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan array of newsgroups.

Sports being one of the most favorite topic of discussion on a
multitude of rec.sport.*.Pakistan, it definitely needs a separate
newsgroup under the hierarchy.

MODERATION POLICIES: all groups

        Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
                soc.culture.pakistan.history
                soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators.  The moderators submission
address and multiple moderation tools are in the process of being setup.

The moderation will NOT be censorship, it is solely for:

                1.  keeping the discussion relevant to the newsgroup topics
                2.  keeping flame/flame-baits out
                3.  keeping discussion civilized.

Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for postings:

                i)   No test messages
                ii)  No commercial messages
                iii) Postings to be legible
                iv)  Postings to be in proper format:
                     (not more than 80 characters per line)
                v)   Less than 50% quote text.

The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if  (1) They have no valid email address  and/or
(2) Have been inactive for over six months.  Additional moderators may
be added by unanimous vote of active moderators.

Changes in moderation team and calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.

Moderators reserve the right to amend the charter after unanimous
agreement.  All rejection notices will be mailed to the sender notifying
the reason with cc copies to all active moderators and facilitators,
no exceptions.

FACILITATORS: For all three moderated newsgroups:

        Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
                soc.culture.pakistan.history
                soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Facilitators are advisors to moderators.  Readers interested in advising
moderators and active in discussing moderation issues.  Unlike moderators
facilitators will not have posting rights.  Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.  And anyone may volunteer to be a
facilitator.

TECHNICAL MODERATOR: For proposed moderated newsgroups.  Solely responsible
for technical aspects, including maintaining submission addresses, updating
moderators' lists, posting announcements on technical issues.  Does not
review/post regular incoming articles.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Pakistan is a fast developing nation.  Unfortunately, the literacy rate
is among the poorest nations.  The Government allocates less than 1% of
its budget for education.  It is now basically up to the Pakistanis to
help the fellow citizens.  A good solid efforts have already culminated
in the form of mushrooming private colleges and universities.  Government
policies, funding, good syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books
and human resources are lacking.  This newsgroup is intended to foster
discussions and to bring together those who may be willing to help in.
Moderation is needed to keep the discussions specific to the topic and
to cut out any noise from this serious newsgroup.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Muhammad <[email protected]>

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Article submission address:     [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history

The creation of Pakistan and its independence from the British on
August 14, 1947 was result of a long struggle.  Many people played a
vital and pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development.  The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds and thousands of people.  This academic forum is meant for
discussions and info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till present.
Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious and
in-depth discussions.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Muhammad <[email protected]>

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Article submission Address:     [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment.  All topics not covered by other newsgroups
in soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome.  The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan.  This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal ratio.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Muhammad <[email protected]>

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Article submission Address:     [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Pakistan is a democratic country.  The political system is
Parliamentary.  The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly.  The head of the state is the
President.  Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister and
Governor.  The number of political parties exceeds 10.  There are
constant coalitions and splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively.  This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths.  Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level.  Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
and laws).  Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems and Laws (E.g.  Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Pakistan holds world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket.  Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed.  Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions and announcements on upcoming
world and local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own.  This newsgroup will serve that purpose.

END CHARTER.

HOW TO VOTE:

Vote counting is automated.  Follow the directions!

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(example yes vote)     [ yes ] rec.foo
(example no vote)      [  no ] rec.foo

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.education
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.history
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.politics
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.religion
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.sports
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid
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-- 
Jan Isley <[email protected]>           |  Running UseVote 3.
votes to: <[email protected]>  |  Powered by FreeBSD

From [email protected] Mon Apr 29 16:32:57 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 29 Apr 1996 20:32:43 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 407
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 7 May 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8612 news.groups:204617 soc.culture.pakistan:146603

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education
             moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history
            moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics
           unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion
            unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Newsgroups line:
soc.culture.pakistan.education	Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history	History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated	Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics	Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion	Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports	Sports in Pakistan.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 6 May 1996.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: all groups

The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.

The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily.  It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic and noise. Not only is it high-traffic, but a large part of
the traffic is heavy cross-posting of topics unrelated to Pakistan,
and ongoing personal flame-wars what belong in e-mail.  Thus rendering
the newsgroup inoperable and unusable for serious readership.  This
situation is also driving serious readership away from the newsgroup.
Current proposal is to rectify this situation by proposing to
reorganize the newsgroup into to a number of moderated and unmoderated
newsgroup based upon specific topics of discussion.  These topics of
discussion are the largest threads of discussion on the current
soc.culture.pakistan and on some Pakistani mailing-list, and that's
why these specific topics were chosen at this time.

The current traffic of 200+ messages per day will increase
dramatically as more USENET readers come on-line from Pakistan itself
in the next few months.

The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers.  They pooled their
initiatives into the current proposal to add several subgroups to the
soc.culture.pakistan hierarchy.

The proposed hierarchy is intended to provide a foundation for
sub-groups under the hierarchy.  The proposed subs-groups will focus
on specific popular topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.  This
provides medium to express and share ideas, in addition to learn from
other's experiences and knowledge.

Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits.  The
moderation will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be
censorship.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education

There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML and PNS-L.  EML alone has 100 letters per week.  The
audience and participation will be enhanced by leaps and bounds with a
newsgroup on this subject.  The moderation is simply intended for
keeping the discussion relevant.  Most of those participating are
educators and professors or professionals.  The subject and its
implications, implementations and interpretations are vast enough to
justify a separate noise free newsgroup all by itself.  The members on
the mailing lists have said they would participate in this newsgroup.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history

This newsgroup is of academic nature.  Most participants are expected
to be historians and scholars.  The history of Pakistan has been one
of the popular topic on current soc.culture.pakistan.  Differing
interpretations, research and analysis of events and prominent
personalities which contributed in any towards the creation of
Pakistan do not have an appropriate existing newsgroup.  This
newsgroup will fill in the big gap.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment.  Moderation is
meant to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.  The
newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan is plagued with too much noise and
irrelevant postings.  It is impossible to initiate, engage in or carry
on any meaningful discussion.  This newsgroup will bring create the
long awaited alternative for the readers of newsgroup.  Currently
daily average in soc.culture.pakistan is 200+.
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated will be the moderated form of the
current soc.culture.pakistan.  soc.culture.pakistan will not be
affected and will continue to provide the unmoderated forum for those
oppose moderation.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Politics is a sensitive issue.  Any attempt to moderate a politics
newsgroup can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a
certain viewpoint.  The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no
one has any basis to think the moderators will censor them out or
their favorite political party.  Not to mention, politics is one of
the most debated topic on the current soc.culture.pakistan, hence the
suggestion for a separate newsgroup on this topic.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious
discussions are not just on 'Islam'.  If they were, then the three
*.religion.islam newsgroups would be more than enough.  The other
religions in Pakistan are: Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi and
many more.  The minority religions have their communities, school
systems, reserved seats in the parliament.  Unfortunately, minorities
religious issues, and especially, religious issues of Pakistanis while
coexistence and daily interactions with each others are commonly
overshadowed by the stereotypical assump- tions of all Pakistanis as
Muslims.  This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on Usenet in general.  The
set of issues and discussions are very much unique to Pakistan.
Despite the fact that sri, ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam
does take place on SCP.  The reason, the discussions are in context of
Pakistani culture.  The scp.religion, is for discussion of all
religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.  In addition, the newsgroup
gives voice to religious minorities.  The religious discussion traffic
clearly deserves a separate newsgroup of its own.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This forum is needed for discussion of selection and performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores and rankings of Pakistani athletes.

Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi,
Boxing, Tennis, swimming, Football etc.  The proposal is for one
single newsgroup to discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions
of local talents, summer camps, university camps, local HBL-11 vs
UBL-11 matches for instant are all directly related to Pakistan.  None
of them make sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan array of newsgroups.

Sports being one of the most favorite topic of discussion on a
multitude of rec.sport.*.Pakistan, it definitely needs a separate
newsgroup under the hierarchy.

MODERATION POLICIES: all groups

        Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
                soc.culture.pakistan.history
                soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators.  The moderators submission
address and multiple moderation tools are in the process of being setup.

The moderation will NOT be censorship, it is solely for:

                1.  keeping the discussion relevant to the newsgroup topics
                2.  keeping flame/flame-baits out
                3.  keeping discussion civilized.

Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for postings:

                i)   No test messages
                ii)  No commercial messages
                iii) Postings to be legible
                iv)  Postings to be in proper format:
                     (not more than 80 characters per line)
                v)   Less than 50% quote text.

The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if  (1) They have no valid email address  and/or
(2) Have been inactive for over six months.  Additional moderators may
be added by unanimous vote of active moderators.

Changes in moderation team and calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.

Moderators reserve the right to amend the charter after unanimous
agreement.  All rejection notices will be mailed to the sender notifying
the reason with cc copies to all active moderators and facilitators,
no exceptions.

FACILITATORS: For all three moderated newsgroups:

        Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
                soc.culture.pakistan.history
                soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Facilitators are advisors to moderators.  Readers interested in advising
moderators and active in discussing moderation issues.  Unlike moderators
facilitators will not have posting rights.  Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.  And anyone may volunteer to be a
facilitator.

TECHNICAL MODERATOR: For proposed moderated newsgroups.  Solely responsible
for technical aspects, including maintaining submission addresses, updating
moderators' lists, posting announcements on technical issues.  Does not
review/post regular incoming articles.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Pakistan is a fast developing nation.  Unfortunately, the literacy rate
is among the poorest nations.  The Government allocates less than 1% of
its budget for education.  It is now basically up to the Pakistanis to
help the fellow citizens.  A good solid efforts have already culminated
in the form of mushrooming private colleges and universities.  Government
policies, funding, good syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books
and human resources are lacking.  This newsgroup is intended to foster
discussions and to bring together those who may be willing to help in.
Moderation is needed to keep the discussions specific to the topic and
to cut out any noise from this serious newsgroup.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Muhammad <[email protected]>

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Article submission address:     [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history

The creation of Pakistan and its independence from the British on
August 14, 1947 was result of a long struggle.  Many people played a
vital and pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development.  The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds and thousands of people.  This academic forum is meant for
discussions and info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till present.
Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious and
in-depth discussions.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Muhammad <[email protected]>

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Article submission Address:     [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment.  All topics not covered by other newsgroups
in soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome.  The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan.  This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal ratio.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Muhammad <[email protected]>

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Article submission Address:     [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Pakistan is a democratic country.  The political system is
Parliamentary.  The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly.  The head of the state is the
President.  Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister and
Governor.  The number of political parties exceeds 10.  There are
constant coalitions and splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively.  This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths.  Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level.  Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
and laws).  Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems and Laws (E.g.  Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Pakistan holds world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket.  Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed.  Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions and announcements on upcoming
world and local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own.  This newsgroup will serve that purpose.

END CHARTER.

HOW TO VOTE:

Vote counting is automated.  Follow the directions!

You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:

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Do not assume that just replying to this message will work.  Check the
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YES or NO vote on each group that you wish to vote on.  Please, mail only
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Names are required.  Please indicate your name on the line provided.
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(example yes vote)     [ yes ] rec.foo
(example no vote)      [  no ] rec.foo

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Voter name:
If you do not give your real name your vote may be rejected.

[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.education
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.history
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.politics
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.religion
[         ]  soc.culture.pakistan.sports
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid
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From [email protected] Fri May 24 13:27:13 1996
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: Jan Isley <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RESULT: soc.culture.pakistan reorganization all groups pass
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 24 May 1996 13:27:27 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 957
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: soc.culture.pakistan-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8714 news.groups:207808 soc.culture.pakistan:152208

                                RESULT
     moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.education passes 479:69
      moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.history passes 470:84
     moderated group soc.culture.pakistan.moderated passes 467:75
    unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.politics passes 477:72
    unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.religion passes 465:81
     unmoderated group soc.culture.pakistan.sports passes 472:70

soc.culture.pakistan.education results - 557 valid votes

 Yes  No  | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
 479   69 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.education
 470   84 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.history
 467   75 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.moderated
 477   72 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.politics
 465   81 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.religion
 472   70 | Yes  Yes |  Yes | soc.culture.pakistan.sports
  15 invalid votes

A five day discussion period follows this announcement.  If no serious
allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the groups shortly thereafter.

Newsgroups line:
soc.culture.pakistan.education	Education in Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.history	History of Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated	Discussions on Pakistan. (Moderated)
soc.culture.pakistan.politics	Political discussions on Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.religion	Religious discussions related to Pakistan.
soc.culture.pakistan.sports	Sports in Pakistan.

Voting closed on 23:59:59 UTC, 6 May 1996.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <[email protected]>

RATIONALE: all groups

The reorganization is being proposed to better address the diversity
of subjects and the needs of the readers which currently not being
served by unmoderated soc.culture.pakistan newsgroup.

The traffic on the unmoderated newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan has been
increasing steadily.  It has reached the point where any meaningful
discussion on any topic related to Pakistan is lost in the high
traffic and noise. Not only is it high-traffic, but a large part of
the traffic is heavy cross-posting of topics unrelated to Pakistan,
and ongoing personal flame-wars what belong in e-mail.  Thus rendering
the newsgroup inoperable and unusable for serious readership.  This
situation is also driving serious readership away from the newsgroup.
Current proposal is to rectify this situation by proposing to
reorganize the newsgroup into to a number of moderated and unmoderated
newsgroup based upon specific topics of discussion.  These topics of
discussion are the largest threads of discussion on the current
soc.culture.pakistan and on some Pakistani mailing-list, and that's
why these specific topics were chosen at this time.

The current traffic of 200+ messages per day will increase
dramatically as more USENET readers come on-line from Pakistan itself
in the next few months.

The current proposal is the essence of discussions held independently
by at least three separate groups of scp readers.  They pooled their
initiatives into the current proposal to add several subgroups to the
soc.culture.pakistan hierarchy.

The proposed hierarchy is intended to provide a foundation for
sub-groups under the hierarchy.  The proposed subs-groups will focus
on specific popular topics on Pakistan and Pakistani culture.  This
provides medium to express and share ideas, in addition to learn from
other's experiences and knowledge.

Moderation: To keep out irrelevant cross-posting, redirect personal
flame-wars to e-mail, and to boot out the constant flame-baits.  The
moderation will keep the discussion civilized, it will not be
censorship.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.education

There are several mailing lists where Pakistan education is discussed,
major ones, EML and PNS-L.  EML alone has 100 letters per week.  The
audience and participation will be enhanced by leaps and bounds with a
newsgroup on this subject.  The moderation is simply intended for
keeping the discussion relevant.  Most of those participating are
educators and professors or professionals.  The subject and its
implications, implementations and interpretations are vast enough to
justify a separate noise free newsgroup all by itself.  The members on
the mailing lists have said they would participate in this newsgroup.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.history

This newsgroup is of academic nature.  Most participants are expected
to be historians and scholars.  The history of Pakistan has been one
of the popular topic on current soc.culture.pakistan.  Differing
interpretations, research and analysis of events and prominent
personalities which contributed in any towards the creation of
Pakistan do not have an appropriate existing newsgroup.  This
newsgroup will fill in the big gap.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

For general discussions, sharing of ideas, comments on issues directly
related to Pakistan in a non-volatile environment.  Moderation is
meant to keep out personal attacks, non-relevant postings.  The
newsgroup soc.culture.pakistan is plagued with too much noise and
irrelevant postings.  It is impossible to initiate, engage in or carry
on any meaningful discussion.  This newsgroup will bring create the
long awaited alternative for the readers of newsgroup.  Currently
daily average in soc.culture.pakistan is 200+.
soc.culture.pakistan.moderated will be the moderated form of the
current soc.culture.pakistan.  soc.culture.pakistan will not be
affected and will continue to provide the unmoderated forum for those
oppose moderation.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Politics is a sensitive issue.  Any attempt to moderate a politics
newsgroup can very well be perceived as an attempt to silence a
certain viewpoint.  The proposal calls for unmoderated politics, so no
one has any basis to think the moderators will censor them out or
their favorite political party.  Not to mention, politics is one of
the most debated topic on the current soc.culture.pakistan, hence the
suggestion for a separate newsgroup on this topic.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Although Muslims in Pakistan are in majority, the religious
discussions are not just on 'Islam'.  If they were, then the three
*.religion.islam newsgroups would be more than enough.  The other
religions in Pakistan are: Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhs, Parsi and
many more.  The minority religions have their communities, school
systems, reserved seats in the parliament.  Unfortunately, minorities
religious issues, and especially, religious issues of Pakistanis while
coexistence and daily interactions with each others are commonly
overshadowed by the stereotypical assump- tions of all Pakistanis as
Muslims.  This newsgroups would add a unique diversity in the scp.*
hierarchy as well as the *religion.* forums on Usenet in general.  The
set of issues and discussions are very much unique to Pakistan.
Despite the fact that sri, ari and uri exist, the discussion on Islam
does take place on SCP.  The reason, the discussions are in context of
Pakistani culture.  The scp.religion, is for discussion of all
religions in Pakistan, not just Islam.  In addition, the newsgroup
gives voice to religious minorities.  The religious discussion traffic
clearly deserves a separate newsgroup of its own.

RATIONALE: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

This forum is needed for discussion of selection and performance of
National sports teams, world sports events participated by Pakistan,
scores and rankings of Pakistani athletes.

Most common sports in Pakistan are: Hockey, Cricket, Squash, Kabadi,
Boxing, Tennis, swimming, Football etc.  The proposal is for one
single newsgroup to discuss all Pakistan related sports, discussions
of local talents, summer camps, university camps, local HBL-11 vs
UBL-11 matches for instant are all directly related to Pakistan.  None
of them make sense on global rec.sport.*.pakistan array of newsgroups.

Sports being one of the most favorite topic of discussion on a
multitude of rec.sport.*.Pakistan, it definitely needs a separate
newsgroup under the hierarchy.

CHARTER: all groups

Moderation policies for soc.culture.pakistan.education,
soc.culture.pakistan.history and soc.culture.pakistan.moderated.

The newsgroups in soc.culture.pakistan.hierarchy slated for moderation
will be moderated by one group of moderators.  The moderators submission
address and multiple moderation tools are in the process of being setup.

The moderation will NOT be censorship, it is solely for:

                1.  keeping the discussion relevant to the newsgroup topics
                2.  keeping flame/flame-baits out
                3.  keeping discussion civilized.

Further, moderators will enforce standard USENET guidelines for postings:

                i)   No test messages
                ii)  No commercial messages
                iii) Postings to be legible
                iv)  Postings to be in proper format:
                     (not more than 80 characters per line)
                v)   Less than 50% quote text.

The moderators may resign at their own will or by unanimous vote of
other moderators if  (1) They have no valid email address  and/or
(2) Have been inactive for over six months.  Additional moderators may
be added by unanimous vote of active moderators.

Changes in moderation team and calls for new moderators will be posted on
the newsgroups.

Moderators reserve the right to amend the charter after unanimous
agreement.  All rejection notices will be mailed to the sender notifying
the reason with cc copies to all active moderators and facilitators,
no exceptions.

Facilitators for all three moderated newsgroups:

        Namely, soc.culture.pakistan.education
                soc.culture.pakistan.history
                soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Facilitators are advisors to moderators.  Readers interested in advising
moderators and active in discussing moderation issues.  Unlike moderators
facilitators will not have posting rights.  Facilitators are nominated
by moderators by mutual agreement.  And anyone may volunteer to be a
facilitator.

Technical moderator for proposed moderated newsgroups.  Solely responsible
for technical aspects, including maintaining submission addresses, updating
moderators' lists, posting announcements on technical issues.  Does not
review/post regular incoming articles.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Pakistan is a fast developing nation.  Unfortunately, the literacy rate
is among the poorest nations.  The Government allocates less than 1% of
its budget for education.  It is now basically up to the Pakistanis to
help the fellow citizens.  A good solid efforts have already culminated
in the form of mushrooming private colleges and universities.  Government
policies, funding, good syllabus, accreditation, libraries, text books
and human resources are lacking.  This newsgroup is intended to foster
discussions and to bring together those who may be willing to help in.
Moderation is needed to keep the discussions specific to the topic and
to cut out any noise from this serious newsgroup.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.education

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Muhammad <[email protected]>

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Article submission address:     [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.history

The creation of Pakistan and its independence from the British on
August 14, 1947 was result of a long struggle.  Many people played a
vital and pivotal role in the creation of Pakistan, and in its initial
development.  The history of Pakistan is marked with sacrifices of
hundreds and thousands of people.  This academic forum is meant for
discussions and info on events which led to the creation of Pakistan.
It does not exclude any history since independence till present.
Moderation is suggested for this topic which requires serious and
in-depth discussions.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.history

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Muhammad <[email protected]>

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Article submission address:     [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

The newsgroup will be for carrying on discussions on Pakistan in a
moderated environment.  All topics not covered by other newsgroups
in soc.culture.hierarchy are welcome.  The moderation will keep the
discussion relevant to Pakistan.  This is an alternate for readers
wishing to take part in discussions without high noise to signal ratio.

END CHARTER.

MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.pakistan.moderated

Moderator:  Moin Ansari       <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Fazia Begum Rizvi <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Sohail Qureshi    <[email protected]>
Moderator:  Mariam Ispahani   <[email protected]>

Facilitator: Ahmad Mumtaz <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Tanwir Syed <[email protected]>
Facilitator: Raghib Muhammad <[email protected]>

Technical Moderator: Asim Mughal <[email protected]>

Article submission address:     [email protected]
Administrative contact address: [email protected]
All Moderators:                 [email protected]

END MODERATOR INFO.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.politics

Pakistan is a democratic country.  The political system is
Parliamentary.  The chief executive is the Prime Minister holding a
majority support in National assembly.  The head of the state is the
President.  Each province has a Provincial Assembly, Chief Minister and
Governor.  The number of political parties exceeds 10.  There are
constant coalitions and splitting among political parties, hence
political discussions are very lively.  This newsgroup is reserved for
those taking part in discussions related to any aspect of political
system of Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.religion

Pakistan is a predominately Muslim but a number of citizens believe in
other faiths.  Although minority, they have special seats in the
parliament and separate ministry at Federal Level.  Pakistan also has a
Muslim Parliament (Shu'ra) and parallel Islamic Justice system (courts
and laws).  Recently, there have been calls of enforcement and
implementation of Islamic Systems and Laws (E.g.  Malakand Division).
This newsgroup is for discussions on religion, as related to Pakistan.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: soc.culture.pakistan.sports

Pakistan holds world championships in Squash, Hockey and Cricket.  Much
of which goes unnoticed or undiscussed.  Pakistanis follow all the
matches and world tournaments in sports, specifically the above three.
The commentary, critique, discussions and announcements on upcoming
world and local events, availability of sports equipment, coaches, clubs
where favorite Pakistani sports may be played and much more requires a
separate newsgroup of its own.  This newsgroup will serve that purpose.

END CHARTER.

soc.culture.pakistan.education Final Voter list


                                          soc.culture.pakistan.sports --------+
                                        soc.culture.pakistan.religion -------+|
                                        soc.culture.pakistan.politics ------+||
                                       soc.culture.pakistan.moderated -----+|||
                                         soc.culture.pakistan.history ----+||||
                                       soc.culture.pakistan.education ---+|||||
                                                                         ||||||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                        Rashid YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Rick Eyre YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Tariq Malik YYYYYY
[email protected]                              Ahmad Nil Dahlan YYYYYY
[email protected]                         Mohd. Shamsudin Osman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Shahed Anwer Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Peter McKellar NNNNNN
[email protected]                                Tanvir Sadiq NNNYNN
[email protected]                                             Abdul Ghaffar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Misbah Islam YYYYYN
[email protected]                             Ayaz Somjee YNNNNN
[email protected]                               Aroosh R. Elahi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Asim Siddiqi YYYYNY
[email protected]                                      Hazem Nasereddin YYYYYY
[email protected]                              Khalid Hashmani NNNNNY
[email protected]                                             Aamir Husain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Jawaid Gehlen YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Naimat Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Faisal Kharadi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Muhammad Afzal Upal YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya NNNNNN
[email protected]                                         I. Oguocha YNYYNN
[email protected]                     Syed Ali Akbar Razavi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Akbar Abbass YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      anil k goel -N----
[email protected]                                      shoaib hasan YYYYNY
[email protected]                                          Naeem Siddiqi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Naveed Alam YY-Y-Y
[email protected]                                            KHALID AHMED YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Naveed Iqbal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Faisal Latif YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Anwer Ali Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Imtiaz Chaudhry YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                JAVED AHMAD YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Sultan Aamiruddin YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              Fu'ad M. Butt YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                MOIN ANSARI YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Farouk S. Khawaja YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Gurjeev S. Paintal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Asif Hazarika YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Farooq Jabbar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Don Kiely NNNNNN
[email protected]                                  Syed Mohsin YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Dwight Brown NNNNNN
[email protected]                                                Waqar Malik YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Hussnain Gerdezi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Nasir Junejo YYYYYY
[email protected]                        Avinash Ramchandani NNNNNN
[email protected]                                        Matthew Guenther NNNNNN
[email protected]                                        Naveed Qazi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                 D. Cell YYYNNN
[email protected]                                          ADIL HAQUE YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Agha Yaqoob Ahsan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Ejaz Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     sarfraz khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                               SYED BAQAR MOHIUDDIN YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                Omar Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Sajid Awan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Tauseef Hashmi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Zulfiqar Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Junaid Malik YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      S. D. Shah YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Mr Siraj YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                 Zia Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Asif ul Islam YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Shujaat H. Siddiqui YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Martin H. Booda NNNNNN
[email protected]                                              Larry Smith NNNNNN
[email protected]                                         Arshad Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         NAVEED AZMAT YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            Wajid Fiaz YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Dr. Dimitri Vulis NNNYYY
[email protected]                               Sadiq Younus YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    N S Rama Krishna -NNNNN
[email protected]                                      Tabassum Rahman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Srirajasekhar Bobby Koritala NNNYYY
[email protected]                                                  Amer Syed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Azeem Rao YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Karan Punwani YNNNNY
[email protected]                                          Nataraj Srikantaiah -NNNNY
[email protected]                                   Iftikhar Anees YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Shoieb Yunus YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Mohammad A. Faruqui YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Zia Iqbal YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Tayyab Alam Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Asif Thobhani YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Jahangir Khalid YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Furkan A Shaikh YYYYYY
[email protected]                               IQBAL SHARIF YYYYYY
[email protected]                     Mohamed Riaz Siddique YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Asad Faizi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Baqar Zaidi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Umair Khan YY-Y-Y
[email protected]                                   Mohammad Anwar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Masood Tahir YYYYYY
[email protected]                             shahzad baqai YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Syed Roomi Naqvi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Arvind Melwani YNNNNY
[email protected]                                        Trevor Tymchuk YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Faisal Sehbai YYNYYY
[email protected]               Ahmed Naumaan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Asim Husain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              Abdul Rauf YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Javaid Siddiqi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Anas Mughal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              akber kazmi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Asma Latif YYYYYY
S=Hason%G=Javed%I=JA%[email protected]                     Javed Hason YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Akhlaq H. Khatri YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Mohammad S Alam YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Haroon Dogar YYYYYY
[email protected]                            Ed Robertson YYYYYY
[email protected]                            Kola Akinade YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Mohammad Ali Mughal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Masud Ahmed Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Muhammad Abdul-Rahman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Habib Rehman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Olav Nieuwejaar NNNNNN
[email protected]                                        Anil Talnikar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Basit Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Jawad Akhtar YYYYYY
[email protected]                          Saeed Ahmed Rajput, Ph.D. YYYNYY
[email protected]                                     Syed W. Hussain YYYYNN
[email protected]                                         M. Asim Malik NNNYYY
[email protected]                      Malik Dino Shaikh YNNNNY
[email protected]                                        Mark Kupferman NNYNNN
[email protected]                                               Dave Harman NNNNNN
[email protected]                                         Sohail Qureshi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Salim Hakim YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Rauf A. Adil YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Rizwan Zaidi YYYYYY
[email protected]                            David Moore NNNNNN
[email protected]                                          Muhammad Basit YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Shoaib Lari YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Shehzaad Nakhoda YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Tom Jaskiewicz NNNNNN
[email protected]                                            Tahir Akram YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Jauher Zaidi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              david crawford NNNNNN
[email protected]                                       Edward Gaillard NNNNNN
[email protected]                                       Andrew Finkenstadt NNNNNN
[email protected]                                     Muhammad   IRFAN YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Waqar Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Kim DeVaughn NNNNNN
[email protected]                                  Pierre Uszynski NNNYYN
[email protected]                                          Irfan Zaman YYYY-Y
[email protected]                                        Syed N. Ahsan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Safi Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Syed Umar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Tauseef Kazi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Gabriel Anwar NNNYYN
[email protected]                                           M Mike Taksar NNNNNN
[email protected]                                      Yasmin Anees YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Afshad Mistri YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Mariam Ispahani YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Asad M. Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Abid Raza YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Kamran Bukhari YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Mubashir Cheema YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Ladonna Dalton YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Ghulam M. Mian YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Naeem Akhtar YYYYYY
[email protected]         Shahnawaz Soomro YNNNNY
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[email protected]                                             Tony Basoglu YYYYYY
[email protected]                         Muhammad Azam Abdul Aziz YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Jaffer Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Stephanie da Silave YYY---
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[email protected]                                         Saqib Asdi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                            JAWAID Qamar YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                        Jalil Shaikh YYYYYY
[email protected]                            Mohammad Azizuddin YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Umar Hamidi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Wasif Awan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Bilal A. Ghayur YYYYYY
[email protected]om                                         Omar Hyat Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Altaf Bhimji ---YYY
[email protected]                                          Bashir Aziz YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Thomas Bueschgens NN-NNN
[email protected]                                 Christian Weisgerber ---NNN
[email protected]               Alexander Eichener YYYYY-
[email protected]                                       Zafar Aslam YYYYYY
[email protected]                       Todd C. Lawson NNYNNN
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[email protected]                                        Neil Singh NNYYNN
[email protected]                                         Faraz H. Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Gohar Waqar YYYYY-
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[email protected]                           Naufal A. Khan NNNNNN
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[email protected]                           Mohammad Ali Millwala YYYYNY
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[email protected]                                        Aijaz Ahmed Baloch YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                    Asim Mughal YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                    Ahmet Kirac YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                         Shahab Mushtaq YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Murad Sitwat YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Amha Lisan YYNYNY
[email protected]                                             Iraj Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Asad A. Naqvi YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Patrick J. LoPresti NNNNNN
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[email protected]                                     Atif Iqbal Chaudhry YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                        Mustafa Kamal Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           MANSOOR HUSAIN YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Muslim Tyebjee YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                    Zia Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Raghib Muhammad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Atif Ahmad Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                        Farrukh Siddiqui YYYYYY
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[email protected]                            Altaf A. Wani YYYYY-
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[email protected]                                  Ahmad Jamal Najmi YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                       Farhan Baqai YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                  Khurram Muhammad YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                     Asad Islam YYNYYY
[email protected]                                                   Sudhendar H YN-YYY
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[email protected]                                         Tariq Rathore YYYYYY
[email protected]                       Syed Baqar Naseer Rizvi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Russ Allbery ---NN-
[email protected]nford.edu                                   Omer M. Saeed YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Zartash Afzal Uzmi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Bilal Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Azer Mustaqeem YYYYYY
[email protected]                         Khalid Sarwar Warraich YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Muhammad A. Qidwai YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Mohammed Shahbaz Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Pam Austin YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              Usman Abbasi YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                  Usman Qazi YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Gopal  Ganapathiraju NNNNNN
[email protected]                                   Smarasderagd NNNNNN
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[email protected]                           Mohammad Farooq B. Malik YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                Lance Chun NNNNNN
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[email protected]                                    Waheed A. Abbasi YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                              Irslan Siddiq YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               Waqass Anwar YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                             Gul A. Agha YNNNNY
[email protected]                                         Nadeem Jamali NNNNNN
[email protected]                                      Terry Wilmarth NNNNNN
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[email protected]                                     Michael W. Daniels YYYYYY
[email protected]                                             Erum Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              Francis Uy -NYYNN
[email protected]                                           Hayder Ali Mir YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Aamena Aslam Malik YYNYYY
[email protected]                                          Zahira Islam YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Muhammad M. Abbas YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Tariq Shamim YYNYYY
[email protected]                                         Darius H Shroff YYYYYY
[email protected]                       Mohammad Ashraf Chaudhary YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Adnan Yousuf YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Abbas Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Azhar Basit NNNYYY
[email protected]                                           Zuhair Moin YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Abd-Allah Othman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        K.V. Bapa Rao NNNYYY
[email protected]                                               jammer YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Mohammad Shoaib Sultan YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                      Saghir Shaikh -NNNNY
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[email protected]                                         Gulzar Mohammad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      J. Rufinus YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Chaudhri Rauf Abdul YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Bardia Madani YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Mushtaq Luqmani YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Ahmad Atif Mumtaz YYYYYY
[email protected]                              Imtiaz Chaudhary YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Pete Bastien NYNYYY
[email protected]                                     SYED HAQ YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Risto Widenius NNYNNN
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[email protected]                                   Ollivier Robert NYYYYN
[email protected]                                           Athar Abbas YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Dr. Imran Mehdi YYYYYY
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[email protected]                               Imran Akram YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           James Frizzell YNNNYY
[email protected]                             Hashmani Manzoor YNNNNN
[email protected]                                    Rauf-i-Azam YYNYYY
[email protected]                     Muhammad Masroor Ali NNNNNN
[email protected]                               Jauhar Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                         NASEEM MAJEED YYYYYY
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[email protected]                               Dr. Munawar A. Anees YYYYYY
[email protected]                                                Nisar Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Siraj Shah YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Kashif Khan Ghori YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Yusuf A. H. Salaam YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Jamal Mubarak YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          John Leslie NN----
[email protected]                                      albert the panther YYYYYN
[email protected]                                     Nadeem Akhtar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        Qasim Mahmood YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                                Shrisha Rao NNNNNN
[email protected]                                            N.T. Wakelyn YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Tasawwar Khan YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                       Feroz-ud-Din YYYYYY
[email protected]                              Syed Mukhtar A. Zaidi YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                       A. Reichert NNNNNN
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[email protected]                                 Mohammad Rashid Yousuf YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              Clive Jones NNN---
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[email protected]                               Muhammad Nadeem YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Khawar Azad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Tahir Mahmood YYNYYN
[email protected]                     Syed Mohammad Amir Husain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Asaf Humayun YYYYNY
[email protected]                             Hassan Raza Naqvi YYYYYY
[email protected]                             AFTAB ELLAHI YYYYYY
[email protected]                       Taufiq Ahmed Mufti YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Serhat Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                     Bilal Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Asim Amin YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Muhammad Sadiq Farooqi YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Ch. Farhan Ibrahim -YYYYY
[email protected]                                     Fatima Raja YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      M.A. Hameed YYYYYY
[email protected]                         Abbas Mujahid Qureshi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Shehzad Islam YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Muhammad Waris Mughal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Junaid Ahmad Mahoon YYYYYY
[email protected]                            Dr. Nasir Raza Awan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Syed Uzair Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Abdul Ghani Tak YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Ahmed Husain Medina YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Mohammad Aminuddin YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Dr. Arif R. Alvi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Junaid Iqbal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Sultan Ashraf YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         asif ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                        S. A. Raza YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Shams ul Arfeen YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Shoaib Ismail YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                Khalid Qureshi YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Mirza Tariq Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Saddiq Karmally YYYYYY
[email protected]                         Aamir Javed Khan, M.D. YYYYYY
[email protected]                            MEHELLI B. DINSHAW YYYYYY
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[email protected]                              Fawzia Salahuddin YYYYYY
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[email protected]                               Hussain Kheatani YYYYYY
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[email protected]                               nadeem iftikhar YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                          Babar YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Zeeshan-ur-Rehman YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                   Khalid Mirza YYYYYY
[email protected]                                khalid khanani YYYYYY
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[email protected]                             Nadeem Akhtar Rana YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                    Rafiq Habib YYYY-Y
[email protected]                            Anwar Rodney Rahman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                      Sohail Altaf YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Abid Sayeed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Sohail Ayub YYYYYY
[email protected]                          Muhammad Khalid Yousuf YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Shomyl Ahmed Brohi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       Shyam Lal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Siraj Ur Rahman YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Sohail Kareem YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Siraj Haider YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Ali Muhammad YYYYYY
[email protected]                            Javaid Ahmed Soomro YYYYYY
[email protected]                               M. Rehan Farooqi YYYYYY
[email protected]                              Rozina H. Merchant YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  M. Javed Habib YYYYYY
[email protected]                          Syed Hamid Akhtar Bari YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Najmul Hasan YYYYYY
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[email protected]                         Khwaja Wasif Mustafa YYYYYY
[email protected]                      Sh.Mohammad Yahya Shahid YYYYYY
[email protected]                  Mohammad Fazil Bharucha YYYYYY
[email protected]                            M. Saif Ullah Khan YYYYYY
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[email protected]                            Farhan Ghafoor YYYYYY
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[email protected]                           Dr.Khalid M.Butt YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                 Tariq Mustafa YYYYYY
[email protected]                         Zakiuddin G.Oonwala YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                  Nayyar Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Syed Muhammad Salis YYYNYY
[email protected]                           Moneeb M. Ehtesham YYYYYY
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[email protected]                           Adeel Zafar Soomro YYYYYY
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[email protected]                             Syed Mustafa YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Rumman Ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                AZHAR HUSAIN YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Nauman Shafique YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Iftikhar Waheed YYYYYY
[email protected]                   MOHD DILAWAR HAROON YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Kashif Mehmood YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Imran Khan Wazeer YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Haider Zafar YYYYYY
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[email protected]                    Syed Muhammed Atif Qazzafi YYYYYY
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[email protected]                                   Badar Khushnood YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Sardar M. Omer YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Muhammad Bilal Aslam YYYYYY
[email protected]                      Mirza Ghulam Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Fuad Arshad YYYYYY
[email protected]                      CHAUDHARY  ASIF  KARIM YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Irfan ahmad YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Ramzan Watto YYYYYY
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[email protected]                        Jamil Rahman YYYYYY
[email protected]                              Aqeel Ahmed Siddiqui YYYYYY
[email protected]                              Sajida Khanum YYYYYY
[email protected]                       Mohammad Farooque YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Ahmed H Makhdoom NNNNNN
[email protected]                                 Vashdev A Khialani NNNNNN
[email protected]                                               Ales Casar NNNNNN
[email protected]                                     Shafqut.R.Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   IMRAN ALI CHAUDHRY YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Farrakh Mehdi Chowdhry YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         S.A.Kazmi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                       suheb ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                               F. Alavi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                Aamer Iqbal Bhatti YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Mohammed Aslam Uqaili YYYYYY
[email protected]                            Mohammed Usman Qazi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  SHAHBAZ AHMED YY-YYY
[email protected]                            Mirza M. Ali YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Shafiq Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                             Reza Aslam YYYYYY
[email protected]                               Assad Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                          Ibrar Dar YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         J I QAZI YYYYY-
[email protected]                                      S.A.Jalal YYYYYY
[email protected]                                              Furrukh Khan YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         Attique Ahmed YYYYYY
[email protected]                                           Tariq Mahmood YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Jaffer H Dharamsi YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Zulfiqar Ali Bhatti YYYYYY
[email protected]                                   Athar Hussain YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Gharib Hanif YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    AZHAR IQBAL YYYYYY
[email protected]                                 Faisal Sheikh YYYYYY
[email protected]                               LOUISE BERFIELD YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    NAEEM MALIK YYYYYY
[email protected]                                  Doug Weller YYYYYY
[email protected]                                    Tanveer Mallick YYYYYY
[email protected]                                         NASIM AWAN YYYYYY
[email protected]                           Penelope Anne Wythes YYYYYN
[email protected]                                 Masood Mirza YYYYYY

Invalid ballots
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]                                                      Jai Maharaj
    ! Address barred from voting
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No vote statement in message
[email protected]                                  CS-4840-01 Student
    ! No name given
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]                                              HNMirza
    ! No vote statement in message
[email protected]
    ! No vote statement in message
[email protected]
    ! No name given
[email protected]                           Asfand Yar Siddiqui
    ! Invalid address
[email protected]
    ! No vote statement in message
[email protected]
    ! No name given
Industries<[email protected]>                                Omer Hayat
    ! Invalid address
 
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