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World War Two (M) ( soc.history.war.world-war-ii )
 
From [email protected] Sat Jan 22 17:57:34 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Joel Furr)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war,alt.war.vietnam,alt.war.civil.usa,soc.history
Subject: RFD: soc.history.war.* groups
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 22 Jan 1994 16:26:41 -0500
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Lines: 32
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4492 news.groups:92714 alt.war:5408 alt.war.vietnam:2501 alt.war.civil.usa:7092 soc.history:32544

I hereby issue a Request for Discussion on creation of newsgroups 
dedicated to discussion of several wars.  Specifically, I request 
discussion on creation of:

soc.history.war.us-civil-war
soc.history.war.world-war-i
soc.history.war.world-war-ii
soc.history.war.vietnam

In order for these groups to be created, they must be discussed in the 
newsgroup 'news.groups'.  At least 28 days of discussion must take place, 
if memory serves, after which a vote can be held if the proposal met with 
consensus during the discussion phase.

At present, there are three groups dedicated to war in the alt. 
hierarchy: alt.war, alt.war.vietnam, and alt.war.civil.usa.  I do not 
endorse elimination of these groups but have proposed doing so for the 
sake of discussion.  None is particularly well propagated and there may 
be some argument advanced for replacing them.

The main thrust of this proposal is in the World War I and World War II 
groups.  Discussion of the battles and history and times of these 
climactic global upheavals continues unabated to the modern day  and 
there are few subjects on which more discussion could be expected.  I 
initially proposed these as alt. groups but have decided to propose them 
as Big 7 groups for the reason that "if they're such great ideas for 
groups, propose them in a Big 7 hierarchy first."

So, here they are.  I invite comment on the creation of the World War 
groups and on the idea of replacing alt.war.civil.usa with 
soc.history.war.us-civil-war and replacing alt.war.vietnam with 
soc.history.war.vietnam.

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 16:16:16 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Joel Furr)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.war,alt.war.civil.usa,alt.war.vietnam,soc.history
Subject: 2nd RFD: soc.history.war.* groups
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 21 Feb 1994 19:39:40 -0500
Organization: Aramchek
Lines: 74
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4656 news.groups:96162 alt.war:5748 alt.war.civil.usa:8224 alt.war.vietnam:2815 soc.history:34055

This is a formal 2nd RFD to formalize the proposal for two
soc.history.war.* groups.

Two groups are proposed at this stage:

soc.history.war.world-war-ii (Moderated)
soc.history.war.misc

Soc.history.war.world-war-ii is proposed as moderated to keep out the
Holocaust Revisionists and their ilk.  If you question why this is
necessary, please glance at soc.history and misc.headlines.  Megabytes per
day of articles about how the Holocaust Never Happened, Folks.

Soc.history.war.misc is proposed as unmoderated.  In the first RFD, it was
not proposed and instead several other wars (the U.S. Civil War, World War
I, and the Vietnam War) were proposed for newsgroups.  World War I
received insufficient support to be taken forward and the other two wars
were too controversial as alt. groups already existed for discussion of
those conflicts.  However, several people began speaking up and saying
"Hey, how about a Napoleonic Wars newsgroup" and so on and it quickly
became ridiculous.  Hence, soc.history.war.misc.

Now, if you wonder why we need a brace of war groups at all, let me say
this:  A war includes more than military events.  A war includes social,
political, economic, military, and demographic events.  Discussion of a
war typically includes the *war era* and not just the war.  Present groups
which exist to discuss military issues are very specific: sci.military,
alt.folklore.military, alt.war.  All of these tend to focus very strongly
on the military aspects and less on the historical and other aspects.  

Discussion of World War II and wars in general takes place on a wide range
of newsgroups, many of which specialize on recent military history.  The
most notable example of war discussion taking place elsewhere is the World
War II mailing list, which averages 800 megabytes per month of traffic. 
The moderators of this mailing list are in favor of the creation of a
World War Two newsgroup as the subject has more than demonstrated its
carrying power on the Net.

I have put together a provisional staff of moderators for
soc.history.war.world-war-ii and this list will be published at the time
the group goes to a vote.

The charter proposed for soc.history.war.world-war-ii is as follows:
Discussion of the era 1939-1945 in particular, but ranging as far back as
1918 and as far forward as the 1950's for discussion of events leading to the
War and post-war events such as the occupation of Japan and Germany.  The
discussion will be limited to social, political, military, economic,
demographic, and historial aspects of World War II, including discussion of:

* Arms limitations treaties in the 1920's, intended to head off any future war
* the Weimar Republic
* the rise of the Italian Fascists
* the Japanese war with China
* the rise of the Nazi Party
* American isolationism
* Franco-British appeasement
* Italian misadventures in Africa
* German occupation of the Sudentenland and Austria
* the war proper, 1939-1945
* the Manhattan Project
* the Holocaust
* Post-war occupation of Japan and Germany
* Post-war governments of Europe
* and so on.

In other words, the mandate for soc.history.war.world-war-ii is intended
to be broad, rather than narrow, with moderation in place less to limit
discussion than to keep out Gannon and the Holocaust Revisionists and
other malicious posters.

The charter for soc.history.war.misc is as follows:

General discussion of wars, including social, political, historical,
economic, and demographic aspects.

From [email protected] (RonDippold) Thu Mar 24 18:11:00 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.history,alt.war,alt.folklore.military,alt.war.civil.usa,alt.war.vietnam,soc.misc,soc.history.moderated
Subject: CFV: soc.history.war.{misc,world-war-ii}
Followup-To: poster
Date: 23 Mar 1994 18:55:17 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 211
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 14 Apr 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected] (Ron Dippold Voting Alias)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4834 news.groups:98845 soc.history:35759 alt.war:6000 alt.folklore.military:1261 alt.war.civil.usa:8990 alt.war.vietnam:3151 soc.misc:4686 soc.history.moderated:236

                          FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                 moderated group soc.history.war.world-war-ii
                    unmoderated group soc.history.war.misc

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.war.world-war-ii	History & events of World War Two. (Moderated)
soc.history.war.misc	History & events of wars in general.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 13 April 1994.

After this CFV appears on news.announce.newgroups it may be sent to
the World War II mailing list discussed in the Charter section, and to
the sci.military moderator for publication in sci.military.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact [email protected]  For questions about the
proposed group contact Joel Furr <[email protected]>.


CHARTER (Proponent)

The charter of soc.history.war.misc:  General discussion of wars,
including  military, social, political, economic,  technological,
historical, and demographic events.

The  charter of soc.history.war.world-war-ii:  Discussion of  the
era  1939-1945 in particular, but ranging as far back as 1918 and
as  far forward as the 1950's for discussion of events leading to
the  War and post-war events such as the occupation of Japan  and
Germany.   The  discussion will be limited to social,  political,
military,  economic,  technological, demographic,  and  historial
aspects of World War II, including discussion of:

     * Arms  limitations treaties in the 1920's, intended to head
          off any future war
     * the Weimar Republic
     * the rise of the Italian Fascists
     * the Japanese war with China
     * the rise of the Nazi Party
     * American isolationism
     * Franco-British appeasement
     * Italian misadventures in Africa
     * German occupation of the Sudentenland and Austria
     * the war proper, 1939-1945
     * the Manhattan Project
     * the Holocaust
     * Post-war occupation of Japan and Germany
     * Post-war governments of Europe
     * and so on.

In  other words, the mandate for soc.history.war.world-war-ii  is
intended  to  be  broad, rather than narrow, with  moderation  in
place  less to limit discussion than to keep out Gannon  and  the
Holocaust  Revisionists and other malicious posters.  Should  Dan
Gannon  or  Serdar  Argic submit articles which actually  discuss
World  War  Two  rather than spreading their brand of  conspiracy
theory, their articles will be approved for submission as well.

Why moderation or lack thereof?
---------------------------------------

Soc.history.war.world-war-ii is proposed as moderated to keep out
the  Holocaust Revisionists and their ilk.  If you  question  why
this   is   necessary,   please   glance   at   soc.history   and
misc.headlines.   Megabytes per day of  articles  about  how  the
Holocaust Never Happened, Folks.

Soc.history.war.misc is proposed as unmoderated.   In  the  first
RFD, it was not proposed and instead several other wars (the U.S.
Civil  War,  World War I, and the Vietnam War) were proposed  for
newsgroups.   World  War I received insufficient  support  to  be
taken  forward  and the other two wars were too controversial  as
alt.  groups  already existed for discussion of those  conflicts.
However,  several people began speaking up and saying  "Hey,  how
about  a  Napoleonic Wars newsgroup" and so  on  and  it  quickly
became ridiculous.  Hence, soc.history.war.misc.   As this  group
will  be  for discussion of war in general, a very broad subject,
moderation   would  be  difficult.   Hence  it  is  proposed   as
unmoderated.

Moderation policy:
------------------

Soc.history.war.world-war-ii will have a very relaxed  moderation
policy.  The main purpose, as noted above, for moderation of this
group  is to prevent it from turning into a revisionist flamefest
akin  to  misc.headlines or soc.history.  As  such,  any  message
which  actually  discusses World War  II  will  be  approved  for
posting,  provided that it does not attempt to claim that  events
such as the Holocaust never happened.  There are other groups for
discussion of that question, most notably, alt.revisionism.

Moderation rules:

  *  Articles which discuss World War Two and its events will be
  approved for posting.

  *  Articles arguing that the Holocaust never happened will not
  be approved for posting.

  *  Articles must contain original thought.  Lengthy quoting of
  source  material with a couple of lines of comment at  the  end
  will not be approved for posting.

  *  Blank    messages,   test   messages,    advertisements,
  MAKE.MONEY.FAST,  and  so  forth,  will  not  be  approved  for
  posting.

  *  Articles which include excessive quoting (e.g. an  article
  which  quotes  an entire other article in order to  add  a  few
  comments  at the end) will be trimmed down by the moderator  in
  question.

  *  An  article MUST have a valid reply-to address or it  will
  not be approved for posting.

  *  Rejected articles will be shared with the other moderators
  for group consideration.

As  noted  below, the group will be group-moderated, to  minimize
delay  between  submission and posting  and  to  keep  the  group
running when the traffic becomes heavy.

Moderators  will  be  added  by majority  vote  of  the  existing
moderators  and  moderators will be removed by 2/3  vote  in  the
event that a moderator is shown to be failing to do the job (i.e.
not posting anything).

Moderators:
-----------

[email protected]               Gordon McFee
[email protected]                 Andrew McMichael
[email protected]     Brett Kottmann
[email protected]                              John Davis
[email protected]                    Joel Furr
[email protected]                 Kenneth Bullock
[email protected]               Ken McVay
[email protected]           A. M. Mughal
[email protected]                        Richard Miller
[email protected]              Martin Schafer

Moderation apparatus:
---------------------

This  group will be group-moderated using a Majordomo listserver.
It  has  been  configured so that each article received  at  ww2-
[email protected]  will be sent to the next moderator  in  turn,
using  a  list of subscribed moderators.  Hence, the *submission*
address   for  articles  will  be  [email protected]    The
*contact*  address  for  the group, once created,  will  be  ww2-
[email protected]

Why should these groups be created?
-----------------------------------

A war includes more than military events.  A war includes social,
political,   economic,   military,   and   demographic    events.
Discussion of a war typically includes the *war era* and not just
the  war.  Present groups which exist to discuss military  issues
are  very specific: sci.military, alt.folklore.military, alt.war.
All  of these tend to focus very strongly on the military aspects
and    less    on    the    historical   and    other    aspects.
Soc.history.war.misc   and   soc.history.war.world-war-ii    will
encompass all aspects of war.

Discussion of World War II and wars in general takes place  on  a
wide  range  of  newsgroups, many of which specialize  on  recent
military  history.   The most notable example of  war  discussion
taking  place elsewhere is the World War II mailing list,  which
averages 800 kilobytes per month of traffic and which almost closed down
after presenting far too great a load on its moderators than they could
handle.  The moderators of the list are in support of the proposed
newsgroup as the subject is far larger than can be easily dealt
with in mailing list form.  A newsgroup is needed.



HOW TO VOTE

Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything
below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line.  Do not erase anything between these
lines and do not change the group names.

Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a YES or
NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it.  If you don't want
to vote on a particular group, just leave the space blank.  Don't worry
about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply
inserts.

Then mail the ballot to:    [email protected]
Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
soc.history.war.* Ballot    <SHW-0001> (Don't remove this marker)

Give your real name here:

[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  soc.history.war.world-war-ii (moderated)
[         ]  soc.history.war.misc
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.

From [email protected] (RonDippold) Tue Mar 29 20:33:32 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.history,alt.war,alt.folklore.military,alt.war.civil.usa,alt.war.vietnam,soc.misc,soc.history.moderated
Subject: 2nd CFV: soc.history.war.{misc,world-war-ii}
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 29 Mar 1994 19:40:40 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 217
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 14 Apr 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected] (Ron Dippold Voting Alias)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4857 news.groups:99469 soc.history:35956 alt.war:6059 alt.folklore.military:1267 alt.war.civil.usa:9192 alt.war.vietnam:3192 soc.misc:4714 soc.history.moderated:346

                          LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                 moderated group soc.history.war.world-war-ii
                    unmoderated group soc.history.war.misc

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.war.world-war-ii    History & events of World War Two. (Moderated)
soc.history.war.misc    History & events of wars in general.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 13 April 1994.

After this CFV appears on news.announce.newgroups it may be sent to
the World War II mailing list discussed in the Charter section, and to
the sci.military moderator for publication in sci.military.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact [email protected]  For questions about the
proposed group contact Joel Furr <[email protected]>.


CHARTER (Proponent)

The charter of soc.history.war.misc:  General discussion of wars,
including  military, social, political, economic,  technological,
historical, and demographic events.

The  charter of soc.history.war.world-war-ii:  Discussion of  the
era  1939-1945 in particular, but ranging as far back as 1918 and
as  far forward as the 1950's for discussion of events leading to
the  War and post-war events such as the occupation of Japan  and
Germany.   The  discussion will be limited to social,  political,
military,  economic,  technological, demographic,  and  historial
aspects of World War II, including discussion of:

     * Arms  limitations treaties in the 1920's, intended to head
          off any future war
     * the Weimar Republic
     * the rise of the Italian Fascists
     * the Japanese war with China
     * the rise of the Nazi Party
     * American isolationism
     * Franco-British appeasement
     * Italian misadventures in Africa
     * German occupation of the Sudentenland and Austria
     * the war proper, 1939-1945
     * the Manhattan Project
     * the Holocaust
     * Post-war occupation of Japan and Germany
     * Post-war governments of Europe
     * and so on.

In  other words, the mandate for soc.history.war.world-war-ii  is
intended  to  be  broad, rather than narrow, with  moderation  in
place  less to limit discussion than to keep out Gannon  and  the
Holocaust  Revisionists and other malicious posters.  Should  Dan
Gannon  or  Serdar  Argic submit articles which actually  discuss
World  War  Two  rather than spreading their brand of  conspiracy
theory, their articles will be approved for submission as well.

Why moderation or lack thereof?
---------------------------------------

Soc.history.war.world-war-ii is proposed as moderated to keep out
the  Holocaust Revisionists and their ilk.  If you  question  why
this   is   necessary,   please   glance   at   soc.history   and
misc.headlines.   Megabytes per day of  articles  about  how  the
Holocaust Never Happened, Folks.

Soc.history.war.misc is proposed as unmoderated.   In  the  first
RFD, it was not proposed and instead several other wars (the U.S.
Civil  War,  World War I, and the Vietnam War) were proposed  for
newsgroups.   World  War I received insufficient  support  to  be
taken  forward  and the other two wars were too controversial  as
alt.  groups  already existed for discussion of those  conflicts.
However,  several people began speaking up and saying  "Hey,  how
about  a  Napoleonic Wars newsgroup" and so  on  and  it  quickly
became ridiculous.  Hence, soc.history.war.misc.   As this  group
will  be  for discussion of war in general, a very broad subject,
moderation   would  be  difficult.   Hence  it  is  proposed   as
unmoderated.

Moderation policy:
------------------

Soc.history.war.world-war-ii will have a very relaxed  moderation
policy.  The main purpose, as noted above, for moderation of this
group  is to prevent it from turning into a revisionist flamefest
akin  to  misc.headlines or soc.history.  As  such,  any  message
which  actually  discusses World War  II  will  be  approved  for
posting,  provided that it does not attempt to claim that  events
such as the Holocaust never happened.  There are other groups for
discussion of that question, most notably, alt.revisionism.

Moderation rules:

  *  Articles which discuss World War Two and its events will be
  approved for posting.

  *  Articles arguing that the Holocaust never happened will not
  be approved for posting.

  *  Articles must contain original thought.  Lengthy quoting of
  source  material with a couple of lines of comment at  the  end
  will not be approved for posting.

  *  Blank    messages,   test   messages,    advertisements,
  MAKE.MONEY.FAST,  and  so  forth,  will  not  be  approved  for
  posting.

  *  Articles which include excessive quoting (e.g. an  article
  which  quotes  an entire other article in order to  add  a  few
  comments  at the end) will be trimmed down by the moderator  in
  question.

  *  An  article MUST have a valid reply-to address or it  will
  not be approved for posting.

  *  Rejected articles will be shared with the other moderators
  for group consideration.

As  noted  below, the group will be group-moderated, to  minimize
delay  between  submission and posting  and  to  keep  the  group
running when the traffic becomes heavy.

Moderators  will  be  added  by majority  vote  of  the  existing
moderators  and  moderators will be removed by 2/3  vote  in  the
event that a moderator is shown to be failing to do the job (i.e.
not posting anything).

Moderators:
-----------

[email protected]               Gordon McFee
[email protected]                 Andrew McMichael
[email protected]     Brett Kottmann
[email protected]                              John Davis
[email protected]                    Joel Furr
[email protected]                 Kenneth Bullock
[email protected]               Ken McVay
[email protected]           A. M. Mughal
[email protected]                        Richard Miller
[email protected]              Martin Schafer

Moderation apparatus:
---------------------

This  group will be group-moderated using a Majordomo listserver.
It  has  been  configured so that each article received  at  ww2-
[email protected]  will be sent to the next moderator  in  turn,
using  a  list of subscribed moderators.  Hence, the *submission*
address   for  articles  will  be  [email protected]    The
*contact*  address  for  the group, once created,  will  be  ww2-
[email protected]

Why should these groups be created?
-----------------------------------

A war includes more than military events.  A war includes social,
political,   economic,   military,   and   demographic    events.
Discussion of a war typically includes the *war era* and not just
the  war.  Present groups which exist to discuss military  issues
are  very specific: sci.military, alt.folklore.military, alt.war.
All  of these tend to focus very strongly on the military aspects
and    less    on    the    historical   and    other    aspects.
Soc.history.war.misc   and   soc.history.war.world-war-ii    will
encompass all aspects of war.

Discussion of World War II and wars in general takes place  on  a
wide  range  of  newsgroups, many of which specialize  on  recent
military  history.   The most notable example of  war  discussion
taking  place elsewhere is the World War II mailing list,  which
averages 800 kilobytes per month of traffic and which almost closed down
after presenting far too great a load on its moderators than they could
handle.  The moderators of the list are in support of the proposed
newsgroup as the subject is far larger than can be easily dealt
with in mailing list form.  A newsgroup is needed.



HOW TO VOTE

Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything
below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line.  Do not erase anything between these
lines and do not change the group names.

Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a YES or
NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it.  If you don't want
to vote on a particular group, just leave the space blank.  Don't worry
about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply
inserts.

Then mail the ballot to:    [email protected]
Just Replying to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
soc.history.war.* Ballot    <SHW-0002> (Don't remove this marker)

Give your real name here:

[Your Vote]  Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[         ]  soc.history.war.world-war-ii (moderated)
[         ]  soc.history.war.misc
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program.  The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account.  Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.



soc.history.war.* Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]                                                 Jack O'Quin

From [email protected] (RonDippold) Tue Apr 19 17:51:25 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.history,alt.war,alt.folklore.military,alt.war.civil.usa,alt.war.vietnam,soc.misc,soc.history.moderated
Subject: RESULT: soc.history.war.{misc,world-war-ii} pass 161:25, 181:17
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 15 Apr 1994 10:07:11 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 346
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:4949 news.groups:100804 soc.history:36749 alt.war:6286 alt.folklore.military:1347 alt.war.civil.usa:9832 alt.war.vietnam:3286 soc.misc:4768 soc.history.moderated:705

                                    RESULT
	     soc.history.war.* results - 203 valid votes

 Yes   No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
 181   17 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : soc.history.war.world-war-ii
 161   25 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : soc.history.war.misc
   1 invalid vote 

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.war.world-war-ii    History & events of World War Two. (Moderated)
soc.history.war.misc    History & events of wars in general.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact [email protected]  For questions about the
proposed group contact Joel Furr <[email protected]>.


CHARTER (Proponent)

The charter of soc.history.war.misc:  General discussion of wars,
including  military, social, political, economic,  technological,
historical, and demographic events.

The  charter of soc.history.war.world-war-ii:  Discussion of  the
era  1939-1945 in particular, but ranging as far back as 1918 and
as  far forward as the 1950's for discussion of events leading to
the  War and post-war events such as the occupation of Japan  and
Germany.   The  discussion will be limited to social,  political,
military,  economic,  technological, demographic,  and  historial
aspects of World War II, including discussion of:

     * Arms  limitations treaties in the 1920's, intended to head
          off any future war
     * the Weimar Republic
     * the rise of the Italian Fascists
     * the Japanese war with China
     * the rise of the Nazi Party
     * American isolationism
     * Franco-British appeasement
     * Italian misadventures in Africa
     * German occupation of the Sudentenland and Austria
     * the war proper, 1939-1945
     * the Manhattan Project
     * the Holocaust
     * Post-war occupation of Japan and Germany
     * Post-war governments of Europe
     * and so on.

In  other words, the mandate for soc.history.war.world-war-ii  is
intended  to  be  broad, rather than narrow, with  moderation  in
place  less to limit discussion than to keep out Gannon  and  the
Holocaust  Revisionists and other malicious posters.  Should  Dan
Gannon  or  Serdar  Argic submit articles which actually  discuss
World  War  Two  rather than spreading their brand of  conspiracy
theory, their articles will be approved for submission as well.

Moderation policy:
------------------

Soc.history.war.world-war-ii will have a very relaxed  moderation
policy.  The main purpose, as noted above, for moderation of this
group  is to prevent it from turning into a revisionist flamefest
akin  to  misc.headlines or soc.history.  As  such,  any  message
which  actually  discusses World War  II  will  be  approved  for
posting,  provided that it does not attempt to claim that  events
such as the Holocaust never happened.  There are other groups for
discussion of that question, most notably, alt.revisionism.

Moderation rules:

  *  Articles which discuss World War Two and its events will be
  approved for posting.

  *  Articles arguing that the Holocaust never happened will not
  be approved for posting.

  *  Articles must contain original thought.  Lengthy quoting of
  source  material with a couple of lines of comment at  the  end
  will not be approved for posting.

  *  Blank    messages,   test   messages,    advertisements,
  MAKE.MONEY.FAST,  and  so  forth,  will  not  be  approved  for
  posting.

  *  Articles which include excessive quoting (e.g. an  article
  which  quotes  an entire other article in order to  add  a  few
  comments  at the end) will be trimmed down by the moderator  in
  question.

  *  An  article MUST have a valid reply-to address or it  will
  not be approved for posting.

  *  Rejected articles will be shared with the other moderators
  for group consideration.

As  noted  below, the group will be group-moderated, to  minimize
delay  between  submission and posting  and  to  keep  the  group
running when the traffic becomes heavy.

Moderators  will  be  added  by majority  vote  of  the  existing
moderators  and  moderators will be removed by 2/3  vote  in  the
event that a moderator is shown to be failing to do the job (i.e.
not posting anything).

Moderators:
-----------

[email protected]               Gordon McFee
[email protected]                 Andrew McMichael
[email protected]     Brett Kottmann
[email protected]                              John Davis
[email protected]                    Joel Furr
[email protected]                 Kenneth Bullock
[email protected]               Ken McVay
[email protected]           A. M. Mughal
[email protected]                        Richard Miller
[email protected]              Martin Schafer

Moderation apparatus:
---------------------

This  group will be group-moderated using a Majordomo listserver.
It  has  been  configured so that each article received  at  ww2-
[email protected]  will be sent to the next moderator  in  turn,
using  a  list of subscribed moderators.  Hence, the *submission*
address   for  articles  will  be  [email protected]    The
*contact*  address  for  the group, once created,  will  be  ww2-
[email protected]


soc.history.war.* Final Vote Ack


                                                    soc.history.war.misc ----+
                                            soc.history.war.world-war-ii ---+|
                                                                            ||
[email protected]                                               YY
[email protected]                               Rob Harrington YY
[email protected]                                 John O'Sullivan YY
[email protected]                                   Abhay A. Ghaisas YY
[email protected]                                     Mitch Sprague YY
[email protected]                                             Andrew Fabbro YY
[email protected]                                      Gordon McFee YY
[email protected]                                        Jody Gould YY
[email protected]                                         Aldo M. Hubert Y-
[email protected]                                   Dwane A. Aldrich YY
[email protected]                                Alexander M. Stroup YY
[email protected]                                 F. Andrew McMichael YY
[email protected]                                         Antti Simola YY
[email protected]                             Audra Russell YY
[email protected]                                                 Jim Ault YY
[email protected]                                             Aseem Mehta YY
barry@mayo.EDU                                                    Jon Barry YY
bcleere@pyramid.com                                             Bill Cleere YY
birchall@pilot.njin.net                                    Shag Aristotelis YY
bj@herbison.com                                               B.J. Herbison YY
bkottman@afit.af.mil                                         Brett Kottmann YY
blair@mksol.dseg.ti.com                                        Arthur Blair NN
bpgm@unixg.ubc.ca                                             Brent POLLOCK YY
bruceb@mpd.tandem.com                                          Bruce Burden YY
buri@probe2.phys.ualberta.ca                               Michael Burianyk YY
burt+@CMU.EDU                                                  Burt Holzman NN
catseye@minerva.cis.yale.edu                                 Mark Kupferman NY
cjackson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu                                    Chris Jackson Y-
claiborn@express.ctron.com          Christian 'Lovable Curmudgeon' Claiborn NN
clark@tti.com                                                   Ralph Clark NY
clee@fsh.mtu.edu                                             Lee Chiao Ming YY
cmarble@osiris.ac.hmc.edu                                      Chris Marble NN
cobbm@orange.cc.utexas.edu                                       Mitch Cobb YY
Colin_Emerson@vme.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk                        Colin Emerson YY
cougar@nando.net                                                Janet Davis YY
cowan@SSRL01.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                Paul L. Cowan NY
creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu                                   Steve Creps YY
crouchkp@flidh102.delcoelect.com                     Kenneth P. Crouch, Jr. NN
cverver@u.washington.edu                                       Craig Verver YY
dan.looby@oit.gatech.edu                                    Daniel P. Looby YN
dan@pine.cse.nau.edu                                                    dan YY
dansachs@panix.com                                                Dan Sachs YY
davidsen@tmr.com                                              Bill Davidsen YY
ddavidso@metz.une.edu.au                                      Dean Davidson YY
dflew@hcsd.hac.com                                            Dave Flewitt  NY
dgfritz@cat.syr.edu                                              Doug Fritz YY
dogcow@ccs.neu.edu                                      Tom 'moof' Spindler YY
doug@midget.towson.edu                                        Doug McNaught YY
drayer@minerva.cis.yale.edu                                  Rebecca Drayer YN
drising@io.org                                                 David Rising YY
ds6537@cmsuvmb.cmsu.edu                                        Doug Shannon NN
dwiseman@erim.org                                              Dave Wiseman YY
edh@arizona.micro.umn.edu                               Eric D. Hendrickson YY
ehanks@diana.cair.du.edu                                        Edwin Hanks YY
ejoberme@mtu.edu                      Eric J. Obermeyer (ejoberme@mtu.edu)  YY
epass@nyx.cs.du.edu                                               Eric Pass YY
eric@wolf359.esnet.com                                         Eric Edwards YY
eugene@nas.nasa.gov                                                 E. Miya YY
fabre@gr.osf.org                                            Christian Fabre YY
fishkin@parc.xerox.com                                          Ken Fishkin YN
fjc@wossname.apana.org.au                                    Frank Copeland YY
follick@jemez.eece.unm.edu                                   Jeremy Follick YY
fsspr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu                               Sean P. Ryan NY
fuy1@gl.umbc.edu                                                 Francis Uy YY
geno@nevada.edu                                           EuGene Tramaglino YY
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU                                    Geoffrey V. Bronner YY
gldrm@jcu.edu.au                                                 Derek Monz Y-
GOLDEN@HUHEPL.HARVARD.EDU                                   Mitchell Golden Y-
gordon@ll.mit.edu                                           Gordon Matheson YY
GROBE@INS.INFONET.NET                                        Jonathan Grobe YY
gt0670e@prism.gatech.edu                                   Brennan T. Price --
gtc@media.mit.edu                                            George T. Chou YY
gustin@evs2.uia.ac.be                                       Emmanuel Gustin YY
hansm@win.tue.nl                                                Hans Mulder YY
HARVEY@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU                                       James Harvey YY
harwood@bedford.progress.COM                                    Tom Harwood YY
HET-15@miriam.onu.edu                                   James Macdonald Jr. YY
holloway@leland.Stanford.EDU                                  Marc Holloway YY
ian@emit.demon.co.uk                                          Ian McConnell YY
igor@carrier.kiev.ua                                         Igor Romanenko YY
ivin@aquila.EECS.Berkeley.EDU                                 Ilya Vinarsky Y-
jac55@cas.org                                                 Alec Chambers YY
jack@cee.hw.ac.uk                                               Jack Campin YY
JAMMER@Jetson.UH.EDU                                        Jimmy A. Miller YY
jbd@osbm.state.nc.us                                             John Davis YY
jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU                                 James A. Chokey YY
jdeutsch@mason1.gmu.edu                                     Jeffrey Deutsch YY
jdm@cs.odu.edu                                  Jay Morris, jdm@cs.odue.edu YY
jfurr@acpub.duke.edu                                              Joel Furr YY
jhightwr@crl.com                                             John Hightower YY
Jim_Mann@transarc.com                         Jim Mann (jmann@transarc.com) YY
jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu                                            James Kiley YY
jlantela@vipunen.hut.fi                                       Jaani Lantela Y-
johns426@aol.com                                               John F Sloan YY
joq@austin.ibm.com                                              Jack O'Quin YY
jore@wavu.elma.fi                                         Jorma Korkiakoski YY
JRBOEKE@snoopy.uadv.uci.edu                                    Joseph Boeke YY
jrm@globalvillag.com                                     John MacWilliamson YN
jwj@admin.lsa.umich.edu                                        Jim Jeffries YY
jxxl@cs.nps.navy.mil                                             John Locke YY
JZML@MARISTB.MARIST.EDU                                   Jonah Triebwasser YN
kairee@aol.com                                              Barbara A. Hare YY
Kari.Hurtta@fmi.fi                                           Kari E. Hurtta N-
kassbohr@WHU-Koblenz.de                                  Markus Kaessbohrer Y-
kbullock@acpub.duke.edu                                  KENNETH W. BULLOCK YY
keithc@cco.caltech.edu                                    Keith M. Counsell YY
ken@bigbird.csd.scarolina.edu                                 Ken Sallenger Y-
kenji@reseau.toyonaka.osaka.jp                               Kenji Rikitake YY
kitchel@octopus.dpsi.com                                        Sid Kitchel YY
kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca                                         Ken McVay YY
koester@mozart.convex.com                                 Paul Eric Koester YY
kogoma@vesta.unm.edu                                            Taki Kogoma YY
kschultz@epas.utoronto.ca                                   Kirsten Schultz YY
kwattles@sas.upenn.edu                                         Kirk Wattles Y-
L15D@ZFN.UNI-BREMEN.DE                                     Martin Schr"oder YY
LAMBERTDL@DELPHI.COM                                           Doug Lambert YY
lcowan@mason1.gmu.edu                                       Lucille L Cowan YY
LEWIS.JOHN@HOSPITAL.VET.UTK.EDU                               John R. Lewis YY
lingua@ccpo.odu.edu                                       Martha L. Wheless YY
logier@qus102.qld.npb.telecom.com.au                              Rob Logie YY
M20349@mwvm.mitre.org                    udve81a@prodigy.com (Dick Pickens) YY
macmanus@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu                                  Stephen Macmanus YY
madams@tartarus.uwa.edu.au                                    Michael Adams YY
mb4008@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu                                  Morgan J Bullard YY
mccombtm@netcom.com                                            T. M. McComb -N
mcd8535@hertz.njit.edu                                 Michael C. DeAngelo  YY
mcs@unlinfo.unl.edu                                            M Straatmann -Y
mcurry@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca                                       Mike Curry YY
mg@ac.duke.edu                                                Michael Grubb YY
mikelong@netcom.com                                               Mike Long YY
milov@uwlax.edu                                            Milo Velimirovic YY
mkovacs@mcs.kent.edu                                         Michael Kovacs YY
mmcon@netcom.com                                           Jon M. Gallagher YY
mmt@RedBrick.COM                                              Maxime Taksar --
moss@mdd.comm.mot.com                                            Barry Moss YY
MOTEL@btk.jpte.hu                                             Attila Bogn r YN
mrwarden@phoenix.Princeton.EDU                              Melissa Warden  YY
msb@sq.com                                                      Mark Brader NN
MUELLER@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU                               Michael Mueller YY
mughal@alumni.caltech.edu                                       Asim Mughal YN
murdo@imperial.demon.co.uk                                            Murdo -Y
murff@warlock.demon.co.uk                                     Damian Murphy YY
mws@clytemnestra.MicroUnity.com                            Mark Semmelmeyer YY
neilb@physics.su.OZ.AU                                              Rotbart YY
novik@physics.ubc.ca                                             Keir Novik YY
offordj@wl.com                                                   Jim Offord YY
osborne@UnbSJ.CA                                             Steven Osborne YY
oyvinw@ifi.uio.no                                             Oyvin Wormnas YY
paa5137@dpsc.dla.mil                                              Jim Irwin YY
pail!jaiser!billh@slc.com                                    Bill Holmstrom YY
patric@adrs1.dseg.ti.com                                  Patric M. McGuire YY
patter@cc.bellcore.com                              George R. Patterson III YY
PETERSJL3522@SNYONEVA.CC.ONEONTA.EDU                       John L. Peterson YY
pewatler@cyf-kr.edu.pl                                        Miguel Watler YY
phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu                                    Paul Lehman YY
pierre@shell.portal.com                                     Pierre Uszynski YY
pls9235@ultb.isc.rit.edu                                       Pat Steppic  YY
pokane@bfsec.bt.co.uk                                           Paul O'Kane YY
prasad@hpux10.miel.mot.com                                                  YY
ps18@cornell.edu                                             Peter Schwartz YY
psivia@dow.com                                                   Pete Sivia Y-
quinn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU                                   Michael Quinn YY
rcsiebel@vnet3.vub.ac.be                                   Roland Siebelink YY
rellison@wrdis01.robins.af.mil                              Richard Ellison YN
Richard.Smudin@amd.com                                       Richard Smudin YY
rick@bcm.tmc.edu                                             Richard Miller YY
riegsecker@ups.edu                                          John Riegsecker Y-
rjallen@foothill.win.net                                         Richard J. YY
robbiew@inviso.com                                      Robbie Westmoreland YN
Rothery@DSTOS3.DSTO.GOV.AU                                     Mike Rothery YN
sandee@quake.quake.think.com                                    Daan Sandee YY
schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov                              Paul J. Schinder YY
se2008@bristol.ac.uk                                          Matt Clonfero Y-
Singlis@bcde.demon.co.uk                                      Steven Inglis NN
SJENKINS@macalstr.edu                                    Stephen S. Jenkins Y-
sjones@cclink.logicon.com                                    Scott T. Jones YN
skoper@netcom.com                                                Stan Koper YY
smarry@turing.toronto.edu                                    Marc Moorcroft NN
smash@u.washington.edu                                        Eric Anderson YY
smk@usl.Summit.Novell.COM                                 Stanley M Krieger YY
spangler@futon.sfsu.edu                                     Peter Spangler: YY
stainles@bga.com                                               Dwight Brown NN
stanley@nocmsmgw.harvard.edu                              Andrea L. Stanley YY
stanning@well.sf.ca.us                                        John Stanning YY
stovemth@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu                                     G. Ryan Faith YY
str@qdot.qld.gov.au                                           Shaun Travers YY
strom@watson.ibm.com                                              Rob Strom YY
sward+@CMU.EDU                                                  David Sward YN
terry@tyrell.net                                               Terry McDill YY
thornley@cs.umn.edu                                       David H. Thornley YY
timk@cadence.com                                                Tim Kiphuth YN
tombre@alkymi.unit.no                                    Lars Henrik Tombre YY
TRAVER@WVNVAXA.WVNET.EDU                                     Michael Traver Y-
vaivads@mprgate.mpr.ca                                          Vic Vaivads YY
verch@cedar.buffalo.edu                                         Jason Verch YY
vzhivov@ccs.carleton.ca                                     Vladimir Zhivov YY
whitcomb@spk.hp.com                             whitcomb@hpspkla.spk.hp.com NN
whuber@sadis01.kelly.af.mil                                      Bill Huber YY
will.wilson@canrem.com                                          Will Wilson YY
wing@pegasus.com                                                    Wing Ng YY
wrf@ecse.rpi.edu                                     Wm. Randolph Franklin  YY
Yadallee@Gallif.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca                  Dave Shariff Yadallee YY
yla@ida.liu.se                                                Yngve Larsson YY


Votes in error
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00wtripley@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu                                                  
   ! No vote statement in message

 
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